Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 4505

1 Thursday, 5 April 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.

5 JUDGE ROBINSON: We continue today with the hearing of evidence by

6 way of video-conference link from Sarajevo.

7 Mr. Whiting, anything to say.

8 MR. DOCHERTY: Mr. Whiting --

9 JUDGE ROBINSON: Sorry, Mr. Docherty.

10 MR. DOCHERTY: That's all right, Your Honour.

11 Your Honour, I just want to tell the Court that, as I have alluded

12 to a couple of times, we have been having difficulty with one witness, and

13 I just want to tell you now that Witness 39 with will not be giving

14 evidence, just for planning purposes.

15 We have two witnesses for today, both of which will be taken by

16 Mr. Sachdeva, and that will conclude our videolink evidence.

17 JUDGE ROBINSON: All right. Thank you.

18 Let the witness make the declaration. Let the witness make the

19 declaration.

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

21 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


23 [Witness answered through interpreter]

24 [Witness testified via videolink]

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Sachdeva.

Page 4506

1 MR. SACHDEVA: Thank you, Mr. President.

2 Examination by Mr. Sachdeva:

3 Q. Good morning to you, Witness.

4 A. Good morning.

5 Q. I just want to confirm that can you hear me in a language that you

6 understand and that you can see me as well.

7 A. Yes. I can hear you and I can see you.

8 Q. My name is Manoj Sachdeva and I'm a lawyer for the Prosecution,

9 and I'm going to be ask you a few questions this morning.

10 Can you start by stating your full name, your date, and place of

11 birth, please.

12 A. My name is Nefa Sljivo, and I was born on the 9th of May, 1972 in

13 Hrasnica.

14 Q. May I ask you, do you recall giving a statement to the Office of

15 the Prosecutor on the 8th of March, 1997?

16 A. Yes, I do.

17 Q. And do you recall giving a further statement to the Office of the

18 Prosecutor on the 27th of April, 2006?

19 A. Yes, I do.

20 Q. And in the last couple of days, did you meet with colleagues from

21 the Tribunal and did they read out and show you those statements?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And upon reviewing and reading through those statements, are you

24 able now to confirm the accuracy and the truth of the contents of those

25 statements, to the best of your knowledge and recollection.

Page 4507

1 I'm sorry. Witness, could you repeat your answer, please? I

2 don't think it came through.

3 A. Yes. Yes, I can confirm it.

4 Q. Thank you.

5 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, could I ask that 65 ter 03069 be

6 brought up on the screen and also shown to the witness in Sarajevo.

7 Q. Witness, do you see there in front of you a statement dated the

8 27th of April, 2006?

9 A. Yes, I see it.

10 Q. And on the first page, do you see your signature there?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And if I were to ask you questions today, would the answers to

13 those questions reflect the content of this statement?

14 A. Yes.

15 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, I ask that that statement be entered

16 into evidence.


18 THE REGISTRAR: As P531, Your Honours.

19 MR. SACHDEVA: If I could now ask for 65 ter 03070 to be brought

20 up on the screen and also shown to the witness.

21 Q. Now, Witness, do you see a statement there dated the 8th of March,

22 1997?

23 A. Yes, I can see it.

24 Q. And, again, on the first page, do you see your signature there?

25 A. Yes, I do.

Page 4508

1 Q. If I were to ask you questions today in court, would your answers

2 reflect the content of this statement?

3 A. Yes.

4 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, I ask that this statements entered

5 into evidence.


7 THE REGISTRAR: As P532, Your Honours.


9 Q. Witness, I'm just going to ask you a couple of more questions.

10 Firstly, the statement you gave to the Prosecutor pertained to an incident

11 on the 1st of July, 1995, and I want to ask you: Did you sustain any

12 injuries as a result of the incident on the 1st of July, 1995 in Hrasnica?

13 A. Yes. Probably when the house fell down, parts of the wall,

14 fragments of the wall, hit me in the back. I don't recall how many of

15 these fragments there were.

16 Q. And can I ask you: As a result of those injuries, did you have to

17 go to hospital?

18 A. When we left the house, we went to the outpatients' clinic where I

19 was examined; after that, we went to the hospital. It was called the

20 Enver Maric hospital, and there they established that my injuries were not

21 very serious.

22 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, could I ask that 65 ter 03075 be

23 brought up on screen and shown to the witness.

24 Q. Witness, in a moment I'm going to show you -- or the court officer

25 in Sarajevo is going to show you a record. And I just want to you look at

Page 4509

1 that record and tell the Court whether this is a record of your admission

2 to the hospital that you just spoke about?

3 A. Yes, it is.

4 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, may I ask that this medical record

5 be entered into evidence.


7 THE REGISTRAR: As P533, Your Honours.


9 Q. Lastly, Witness, on that day of the incident, the 1st of July,

10 1995, did you notice any military activity taking place in the vicinity of

11 your residence or in that area?

12 A. I don't remember anything happening. I really can't remember

13 whether anything happened on that day.

14 Q. Are you able to tell the Court whether in the vicinity of your

15 residence there were any military objects or facilities nearby?

16 A. Near the house there was a house in which the observers were, the

17 monitors. That's all.

18 Q. When you say "observers," are you referring to -- well, actually,

19 who are you referring to when you say "observers"?

20 A. The UN observers, excuse me.

21 Q. Thank you for that clarification. So I'll just be more clear in

22 my question. Apart from the UN observers, were there any members of the

23 Bosnian government military or military installations of the Bosnian

24 government military near your location, near your house?

25 A. No.

Page 4510

1 Q. Thank you very much, Witness.

2 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, that concludes my examination.

3 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, Mr. Sachdeva.

4 Now, Ms. Isailovic.

5 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

6 Cross-examination by Ms. Isailovic:

7 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Witness. I'm Branislava Isailovic.

8 I'm a lawyer with the Paris Bar, and I'm representing General Dragomir

9 Milosevic, the accused in these proceedings.

10 I'm going ask you a few questions regarding these two statements

11 that you made and that have you just dealt with with the Prosecutor.

12 In your first statement, document 65 ter 03070, which has been

13 given the number P532, this is a statement dated March 8, 1997, the first

14 statement that you made to the Prosecutor's office. It's the first one

15 you made, right?

16 A. Yes, it is.

17 Q. In the statement, you talk about an air bomb which fell on the

18 television building. Can you see this statement, and I'm talking about

19 paragraph 3 on page 2.

20 A. Yes, I can see it.

21 Q. Here you say that you heard about air bombs for the first time

22 when one fell on the television building. Do you still agree with this?

23 Do you maintain this?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Then regarding the incident that is the topic today, which is July

Page 4511

1 1st, 1995, do you remember exactly how long it was since you heard about

2 the air bomb that fell on the television building?

3 A. I don't recall exactly how long it was, but I just remember that

4 people said that an air bomb fell on the television building.

5 Q. But was it the same year as the incident that occurred on July

6 1st, 1995?

7 A. I think it was, but, believe me, so much time has elapsed. I

8 think it was.

9 Q. But where or how did you hear about this first incident? Was it

10 through the media?

11 A. Well, yes, through the media. How else?

12 Q. And what exactly did the media report regarding this bomb that

13 fell on the TV building?

14 A. I can't remember that. The only thing I do remember is that it

15 was an air bomb, because the same kind of bomb hit my house. I think it

16 was the same kind of bomb.

17 Q. July 1st, 1995, there's been extensive damage to the house, but

18 the first impact was on the roof of the house, right?

19 A. It was in 1992. A shell landed in 1992; I said that.

20 Q. I apologise. That's in paragraph 2. But I'm talking about July

21 1st, 1995. Was your house directly hit by this bomb; do you remember?

22 A. The bomb hit the garage which was in front of the house and it was

23 connected to the house.

24 Q. This was the garage that belonged to your family?

25 A. Yes, yes.

Page 4512

1 Q. In the statement, in paragraph 4, you say that you heard a sound,

2 and you say that at that time you knew it was mortar, something like that

3 being fired. That's what you said, right?

4 A. Well, because I had been listening to those sounds for four or

5 five years, so we could tell, more or less. But this one produced a

6 horrible sound.

7 Q. Yes, that's why I'm asking the question. You had experience in

8 1995. You knew about this noise. So the noise you heard then, was it

9 similar to the one you heard in 1992 when the mortar shell fell on your

10 house?

11 A. No, it was nothing like that. This sound was awful.

12 Q. Horrible, horrible, or awful, but how was it awful? Because it

13 was very loud? Could you describe what "awful" exactly means?

14 A. The sound was terrible.

15 Q. I'm listening to the French, but you said a special word in B/C/S.

16 Could you repeat and say exactly what was awful for the transcript, so we

17 know exactly what was so awful or so terrible in relation to this noise?

18 A. The sound was much stronger, much louder than the ones I had heard

19 before.

20 Q. Witness, isn't it true that there were many such noises in

21 Hrasnica and you heard many such sounds. You heard the sounds of many

22 different weapons in Hrasnica?

23 A. Yes, because we were being targeted. So, yes. The answer is yes.

24 Q. There were many soldiers of the ABiH army that were billeted in

25 Hrasnica. Isn't that true?

Page 4513

1 A. In Hrasnica, we were defending ourselves.

2 Q. You're thinking about the soldiers that were stationed in

3 Hrasnica. They defended themselves?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And this is a neighbourhood in Sarajevo, but it's a little bit

6 aside. It's located at the very foot of Mount Igman, right?

7 A. Yes, that's right.

8 Q. And very close to it. When you -- when you were in your house,

9 Mount Igman is right there, right?

10 A. Yes, behind it.

11 Q. And the Igman road is also -- goes also through the foot -- goes

12 to the foot of Mount Igman and is parallel to the street where your house

13 is located?

14 A. Yes. Yes, it does.

15 Q. And this route can be -- this road can be used to climb up Mount

16 Igman?

17 A. Well, probably. I don't know exactly.

18 Q. You were a resident of Hrasnica. Do you remember that at the time

19 there was a tunnel under the runway of the airport, and the entry -- entry

20 or exit point was in Donji Kotorac? Do you remember that?

21 A. Yes, I remember that.

22 Q. At the time did you know that the tunnel was used by the ABiH army

23 so soldiers would go up on Igman?

24 A. I don't know. Probably. I know I used the tunnel to go to town,

25 and people came to Hrasnica from town through the tunnel.

Page 4514

1 Q. This is new to me. You personally took the tunnel several times

2 to get into Sarajevo to the City Centre?

3 A. Yes. Yes, I did. Because I, in 1995, became a student at the

4 university, I had to use the tunnel to go to the university, although I

5 lived at Dobrinja. But to reach Dobrinja, I had to use the tunnel.

6 Q. Could you tell us how often you used this tunnel at that period of

7 time? We're talking about 1995, right?

8 A. Not often. I can't remember now, but it wasn't every day.

9 Perhaps once a month, because I would come back to see my mother.

10 Q. Did you have to tell anyone about the fact that you wanted to use

11 the tunnel? Did you have to tell someone in Dobrinja, for example, about

12 it before taking the tunnel?

13 A. We went to the municipality to get passes to go through the

14 tunnel. We as students were able to.

15 Q. So as a student, you were entitled to get this pass.

16 A. Yes, yes.

17 Q. And with the pass, you were allowed to go through the tunnel, to

18 go towards the City Centre or to come back. Is that it?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. The people giving the pass, were they military or was it the civil

21 servants at the municipality; do you remember?

22 A. I didn't get the pass from the army. I got it from the civilian

23 authorities, from the municipality, because I was a student.

24 Q. And once you were -- once you were at the entry point to the

25 tunnel, was that -- was it the soldiers or the army that were controlling

Page 4515

1 the passes or was it civilian police? Do you remember exactly who did the

2 check at the entry of the tunnel?

3 A. The people wore suits; police, army. They all wore the same kind

4 of clothes.

5 Q. That suit, was it a uniform or was it civilian clothes?

6 A. They were uniforms, uniforms.

7 Q. Thank you, Witness.

8 Questioned by the Court:

9 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Witness, please, I have one

10 question for clarification, please.

11 What fell on the garage next to your house? Was it an air bomb or

12 was it a mortar shell?

13 A. I was told that it was an air bomb which was not dropped from a

14 plane but launched from I don't know what.

15 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] You were told it was an air bomb.

16 But to your knowledge, was there an investigation made by the local police

17 or by the UN forces or by any authority; and if so, do you know what the

18 findings of this investigation were, as to the origin of the bomb?

19 A. The police came that morning after the bomb fell, after it landed,

20 and someone said they said it was an air bomb. I don't remember anything

21 else. I know they did come.

22 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23 JUDGE HARHOFF: Good morning, Madam Witness.

24 I would like --

25 A. Good morning.

Page 4516

1 JUDGE HARHOFF: I would like to put one short question to you

2 relating to the passage through the tunnel. And if I understand you

3 correctly, because your residence was outside the city and your university

4 where you studied was within the city, the confrontation lines of the

5 city, you sometimes passed through the tunnel when you wanted to move from

6 the inner city to your home, your residence. Is that correct?

7 A. Could you please repeat your question? Excuse me.

8 JUDGE HARHOFF: That's all right. I understand you to say that

9 you were studying at the university which I suppose was located within the

10 confrontation line; that is to say, in the city centre somewhere, yet your

11 family was living outside. So in order to get from the university to your

12 family residence, you would have to go through the tunnel, and you did so,

13 as I understand, once --

14 A. Yes.

15 JUDGE HARHOFF: -- every month, or so; and then you said that --

16 A. Well, I don't know exactly.

17 JUDGE HARHOFF: That's fine. But then you said that you could

18 obtain a pass in order to go through the tunnel, and I understand that

19 this pass was sort of a permission to pass through the tunnel. Is that

20 correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 JUDGE HARHOFF: Did you have to pay money in order to obtain that

23 passport, or were the passports given free of charge because you were a

24 student?

25 A. No, I didn't pay.

Page 4517

1 JUDGE HARHOFF: But did anyone have to pay? Do you know if anyone

2 had to pay for a pass in order to pass through the tunnel?

3 A. No.

4 JUDGE HARHOFF: Were there any restrictions to your knowledge in

5 the issuing of passes to civilians in order to go through the tunnel?

6 A. I don't know. I just know that people brought food to Sarajevo

7 through that tunnel. Hrasnica was linked to Herzegovina via Igman. There

8 was more food in our area than in Sarajevo, so people took food from our

9 area into Sarajevo. So I don't know.

10 JUDGE HARHOFF: To your recollection, could people, civilians

11 obtain a passport, a pass at any time without any restrictions in order to

12 pass through the tunnel? In other words, do you know if there was a free

13 passage for everyone as long as they just had a pass?

14 A. I don't know about that. I know that I, as a student, had a pass.

15 I really don't know whether everyone could get through all the time.

16 Since people knew that there was a tunnel there, it was targeted a

17 lot, and people also knew that a lot of other people got killed there by

18 the tunnel.

19 JUDGE HARHOFF: I understand. But my questions relate to the

20 issue of whether there was more or less free passage for everyone through

21 the tunnel, and I understand your response to say that you don't know

22 this?

23 A. I don't know. I know that I, as a student, had this pass;

24 otherwise, I wouldn't go to town. Had I not continued my studies, I

25 simply wouldn't go there, because that was also exposure to, well...

Page 4518

1 JUDGE HARHOFF: Do you know if your pass was given to you because

2 you were a student? In other words, were passes automatically given to

3 all students?

4 A. I don't know about that. What was said was that students could go

5 there and have this pass all the time. Now, whether everybody could ...

6 JUDGE HARHOFF: One last question, and that is: Can you remember,

7 roughly, if there were many people going with you through the tunnel at

8 the times when you did it, or was it a limited number of people? In other

9 words, could you roughly indicate the number of people who went through

10 with you at those times? 50 people, 100 people, 500 people; can you

11 remember?

12 A. I really cannot. I just know that you had to wait. You had to

13 wait on one side when people would go through the other side, and then

14 they would have to wait when we were going through. Perhaps around 50 or

15 something. Believe me, I cannot remember.

16 JUDGE HARHOFF: That's fine. Thank you very much, Madam Witness,

17 and have a good day.

18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Sachdeva.

19 Re-examination by Mr. Sachdeva:

20 MR. SACHDEVA: Just one question, Mr. President.

21 Q. Ms. Sljivo, just one question. With respect to the tunnel

22 entrance, can you tell the Court how far your house was from the entrance

23 to the tunnel?

24 A. Around four kilometres, something like that.

25 Q. Thank you very much, Witness.

Page 4519

1 MR. SACHDEVA: No further questions, Mr. President.

2 JUDGE ROBINSON: Witness, that concludes your evidence. Thank you

3 for giving it and you may not leave.

4 [The witness's testimony via videolink concluded]

5 JUDGE ROBINSON: I'm informed by the court deputy that we need a

6 20-minute break to allow for the setting up of certain measures for the

7 next witness.

8 So we'll adjourn for 20 minutes.

9 --- Break taken at 9.40 a.m.

10 --- On resuming at 10.03 a.m.

11 JUDGE ROBINSON: Let the witness make the declaration -- sorry.

12 Ms. Isailovic.

13 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

14 [No interpretation]

15 JUDGE ROBINSON: Sorry. Let us hear from Ms. Isailovic first

16 before the witness makes the declaration.

17 So, Witness, you will have to wait for a few minutes.

18 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

19 It's just a question I wanted to raise this morning. My client

20 told me about a few problems he has with transportation, especially these

21 days when we are having a schedule which is bit different from the other

22 days. And he has transportation extremely early and then he has to wait

23 an extremely long time after the hearing before being transferred back.

24 This is what happened yesterday and the day before yesterday.

25 The waiting rooms here are quite uncomfortable. There is no

Page 4520

1 heating. I go there very often, and it is very unpleasant to have to wait

2 there more than 20 minutes. He is -- yesterday he to wait for two hours

3 for transportation which is extremely unpleasant. So I wanted to tell the

4 court about this, if the Chamber has the possibility of raising the

5 question to the competent department in order to remedy this.

6 [Trial Chamber confers]

7 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. The Chamber shares the concern that you

8 have expressed on behalf of the accused with regard to the arrangements

9 for his transportation. He should not have to wait two hours, and I will

10 instruct the court deputy to pass this on to the registrar, and the

11 registrar will, I'm sure, see to it that there is an improvement in

12 transportation for the accused.

13 Is that all, Ms. Isailovic?

14 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. Thank you very

15 much.

16 JUDGE ROBINSON: Let the witness make the declaration.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

18 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


20 [Witness answered through interpreter]

21 [Witness testified via videolink]

22 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Sachdeva.

23 MR. SACHDEVA: Thank you, Mr. President.

24 Examination by Mr. Sachdeva:

25 Q. Good morning to you, Witness.

Page 4521

1 A. Good morning.

2 Q. Can you hear me in a language that you understand, and can you see

3 me also on the screen there?

4 A. Yes. I can here you but I cannot see you on the screen, oh, and

5 there's this woman's voice that I hear, she's talking.

6 Q. Witness, my name is Manoj Sachdeva and I'm one of the lawyers for

7 the Prosecution, and I am going to ask you a few questions. Firstly, to

8 inform you, you had requested protective measures so as to withhold your

9 identity to the public, and the Court has granted those measures. So in a

10 moment, I am going to ask -- well, in fact, now I am going to ask the

11 court deputy down in Sarajevo to show you a piece of paper; and on --

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. -- that piece of paper, there should be your personal details, and

14 I would like you to confirm to the Court that those are correct.

15 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, I have copy for the Court.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, this is correct.


18 Q. Thank you, Witness. And I'm going to refer to you as Witness 13.

19 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, I move that pseudonym sheet into

20 evidence, under seal.


22 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be P534, under seal.


24 Q. Now, Witness 13, do you remember giving a statement to the Office

25 of the Prosecutor on the 10th of March, 1997?

Page 4522

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And in the last couple of days, did members of the Tribunal give

3 you an opportunity to read through that statement?

4 A. After that?

5 Q. Yes. Within the last couple of days in Sarajevo, did members of

6 the Tribunal give you an opportunity to read through your statement.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And upon reviewing and reading through your statement, can you now

9 confirm that the contents of that statement are accurate and truth, to the

10 best of your knowledge and recollection?

11 A. Yes.

12 MR. SACHDEVA: If I could now ask for 65 ter 03056 to be shown to

13 the witness and to be brought up on the screen here but not to be

14 broadcast.

15 Q. Witness 13, do you see a statement there dated the 10th of March,

16 1997?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And on the first page, do you see your signature there?

19 A. Yes, that's my signature.

20 Q. And if I were to ask you questions today in court, would your

21 answers reflect the content of that statement?

22 A. Well, as far as I can remember -- well, I don't know. We'll see.

23 You know what I'm saying?

24 Q. Well, let me just ask you this, Witness 13. Can you just confirm

25 that what's in the statement that you gave on the 10th of March, 1997 is

Page 4523

1 indeed correct and accurate, to the best of your knowledge and

2 recollection?

3 A. Yes. All of it is true.

4 Q. Thank you.

5 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, I offer this statement into

6 evidence, under seal. I would just note in the 92 application for this

7 statement the Prosecution asked for the final four paragraphs in the

8 English version to be admitted into evidence. That is because the initial

9 part of the statement was deemed to be not relevant to the case at hand.

10 JUDGE ROBINSON: We admit it, under seal.

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that becomes P535, under seal.


13 Q. Witness 13, in the statement that has just been admitted, you

14 speak about an incident on the 26th of May, 1995, and I want to ask you:

15 At the time --

16 A. Yes.

17 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, perhaps we can move into private

18 session for this question.

19 JUDGE ROBINSON: Private session.

20 [Private session]

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 4524











11 Pages 4524-4535 redacted. Private session.















Page 4536

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 [Open session]

7 JUDGE ROBINSON: Now, Ms. Isailovic, my plan was to stop at ten to

8 before breaking, so that we would have made up for the 20-minute break we

9 had earlier. But I would continue beyond that time for another five

10 minutes, if you would be finishing, so please let me know. If not, we'll

11 take the break in three or four minutes' time.

12 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I just have a few

13 questions to put to the witness. I think that the remaining seven minutes

14 will suffice.

15 JUDGE ROBINSON: Very well. We will continue.

16 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation]

17 Q. Witness, do you remember whether there were any dead people

18 following this explosion on that day?

19 A. There weren't any dead.

20 Q. And according to what you remember, and according what you know

21 and found out after the incident, in those flats that were located in the

22 building on which the bomb fell, were there any people?

23 A. Well, let me tell you. I didn't go into other peoples' flats,

24 thinking I would be a witness one day. But in the course of the day when

25 I came back from hospital, and on the following day, I did hear that on

Page 4537

1 the last floor there was a woman who had a small baby. How true this was

2 I cannot guarantee.

3 But I heard that at the time of the explosion, it went through to

4 the second floor and that this lady with a baby was alive and well, but

5 the little girl's eardrums were damaged. But that was just rumours going

6 around the neighbourhood, you understand. There weren't any people

7 killed. There was some people injured, just as I had been. And there was

8 a neighbour of mine. His son was a policeman. He was injured and so on.

9 Q. Witness, as you were outside, did you actually see this bomb when

10 it fell?

11 A. No, I didn't see it. No.

12 Q. What did you hear, please?

13 A. As I was on the fifth floor, thousands and thousands of shells

14 landed in Sarajevo; and most of those shells, when they landed, you could

15 hear a whistling sound. I don't have my teeth so I can't whistle properly,

16 but I will try. The sound was like this ... and then suddenly there would

17 be an explosion. You understand.

18 But this bomb that I survived, I was facing the building with --

19 my right side was towards the building where the bomb fell, and I just

20 heard as if there had been a helicopter some 15 metres above the buildings

21 flying low. It was a sound different from the sound made by the other

22 shells that landed in Mojmilo and Svrakino Selo, and then I heard an

23 explosion and an impact on the right-hand side.

24 My little Lejla was taking a bath. I thought it was -- I thought

25 the bomb had landed on our building, so I called out to her, "Lejla,

Page 4538

1 Lejla." I came to the entrance where I found some 20 people who were

2 sheltering in the doorway from the detonation. They moved there

3 instinctively. You understand. At that point, this journalist arrived,

4 who I mistook for an UN soldier. At the same time, my little daughter

5 Lejla ran down the stairs shouting, "Daddy, daddy." She put her arms

6 around my waist and felt blood.

7 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. I think have you answered the

8 question.

9 Any more questions, Ms. Isailovic.

10 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. One last question: Do you perhaps remember how long you heard

12 this sound for, this strange sound? How long were you able to hear it?

13 A. I think about three or four seconds, not more. It could have been

14 less, but not more, believe me.

15 Q. Thank you very much, Witness.

16 A. You're welcome.

17 Questioned by the Court:

18 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Witness, if I understood your

19 statement correctly, the bomb fell on the fifth floor of the building, and

20 the three last --

21 A. Yes, the roof was flat.

22 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] -- floors in the building were

23 destroyed. Is that right?

24 I didn't hear your answer.

25 A. The roof of the building was a flat roof.

Page 4539

1 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] So this was an air bomb, was it?

2 A. I don't know. I'm an expert for those things.

3 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] You were wounded, of course. The

4 person whom you took for an UN soldier, who was in fact a journalist, came

5 to help you. But do you know whether the Bosnian authorities or whether

6 the United Nations representatives came to that location or not? Do you

7 know?

8 A. Well, there was some sort of inspection, investigation. They

9 investigated the depth of the crater and so on. I'm no expert in these

10 matters. I was just an eye-witness when the bomb exploded. I can tell

11 you where I was, but I cannot tell you whether it was air bomb or a 120 or

12 an 82. I don't want to lie.

13 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Witness.

14 JUDGE ROBINSON: Any re-examination, Mr. Sachdeva?

15 MR. SACHDEVA: Mr. President, no. But if I may, I would just like

16 to inform the Court in response to His Honour Judge Mindua's question that

17 Witness 138 did indeed testify about a police investigation into this

18 incident, and the relevant records have been admitted into evidence.

19 Other than that, no questions for re-examination.

20 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you.

21 Witness, that concludes your evidence. We thank you for giving it

22 and you may now leave.

23 [The witness's testimony via videolink concluded]

24 JUDGE ROBINSON: Now, I understand that we will also be leaving,

25 Mr. Sachdeva, there being no other witness in Sarajevo.

Page 4540

1 MR. SACHDEVA: That's correct.

2 [Trial Chamber confers]

3 JUDGE ROBINSON: We will therefore adjourn until Tuesday, the

4 17th.

5 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 10.56 a.m.,

6 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 17th day of April,

7 2007, at 9.00 a.m.