Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 2378

1 Wednesday, 4 February 2004

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, will you call

6 the case, please.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, case number IT-01-47-T, the

8 Prosecutor versus Enver Hadzihasanovic and Amir Kubura.

9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

10 Can we have the appearances for the Prosecution, please.

11 MR. WITHOPF: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning, Counsel.

12 For the Prosecution, Chester Stamp and Ekkehard Withopf, with Kimberly

13 Fleming, the case manager.

14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15 And the Defence, please.

16 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. President.

17 Good morning, Your Honours. On behalf of General Hadzihasanovic, Edina

18 Residovic, lead counsel; Stephane Bourgon, co-counsel; and Mirna

19 Milanovic, legal assistant.

20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

21 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. On

22 behalf of Mr. Kubura, Rodney Dixon, Fahrudin Ibrisimovic, and legal

23 assistant, Nermin Mulalic.

24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

25 The Chamber wishes to greet all those present, representatives of

Page 2379

1 the Prosecution, the counsel for the accused, the accused, and of course

2 all the other staff present in the courtroom.

3 For today we have two witnesses planned. I understand that

4 there's going to be a request for protective measures for the first

5 witness. Due to that, I'm going to ask the registrar that we go into

6 private session.

7 [Private session]

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 2380












12 Pages 2380 to 2388 redacted, private session














Page 2389

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 [Open session]

14 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are in open session.

15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then, in open

16 session.

17 Apparently the witness can only come within a quarter of an

18 hour, 20 minutes. Considering this situation, since we can only hear the

19 witness in about a quarter of an hour, we are going to stop now and we'll

20 continue at quarter to 10.00.

21 --- Break taken at 9.31 a.m.

22 --- On resuming at 9.52 a.m.

23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then. After

24 interrupting the session in order to give the witness time to come here,

25 I would like to know whether at this stage the witness is ready for the

Page 2390

1 hearing with no protection measures. He did not request any special

2 protection measures.

3 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, the next witness,

4 Mr. Dalibor Adzaip, will not request any protective measures.

5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then. Before we

6 bring in the witness, let me just remind all parties that the protection

7 measures are granted only in virtue of exceptional circumstances.

8 Since this is an open session and the trial is always in open

9 session, this is a selective procedure. And also, we have to have some

10 pedagogical effect for the outside world, and it is important for the

11 witness accounts to be heard outside; however, in some instances due to

12 specific, exceptional circumstances which may cause witnesses to fear for

13 their safety or to fear that their accounts here -- yes -- could bring us

14 closer to the truth, but we still need to grant these special

15 circumstances, the special protection to the witness. So all these

16 request will looked into on a case-by-case basis. And as you have seen,

17 before making any decision in that respect we always listen to the

18 witness and ask them to explain their situation and make their point for

19 themselves, because sometimes there may be differences. I mean, however,

20 we have to make a distinction between two things: We may have

21 eyewitnesses - that's the one thing - but the fears that they may have

22 may be objective or subjective. That's a different problem. We

23 shouldn't confuse the two.

24 And sometimes the very fact that they may be called upon to give

25 their witness account publicly and orally and sometimes, of course, we do

Page 2391

1 grant these protective measures. But even if we do grant these measures,

2 it is still possible for the Defence team to put the questions to the

3 witness in question, so the Defence rights and the rights of the accused

4 are protected, are guaranteed.

5 Having said that, we are now going to call in the witness.

6 [The witness entered court]

7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then. Good day,

8 sir. First of all, let me check that you can hear what I'm saying in

9 your own language. Can you hear the translation of my words in your own

10 language?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then. Sir, you will

13 have to make an oath. But before you do that, you have to tell us your

14 name.

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Dalibor Adzaip.

16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your date of birth?

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The 6th of November, 1974.

18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You were born where? In what

19 town?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In Travnik, in Bosnia and

21 Herzegovina.

22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your current

23 profession?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am an electrical technician, an

25 electrician. And at the moment, I'm living in the US.

Page 2392

1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You are in the US. Are you a

2 resident in the US? Do you have a US nationality? What is your

3 situation there?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I only have the residence and the

5 work permit. I don't have the US citizenship.

6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. And 1993, it was

7 more than ten years ago in fact. What was your professional situation at

8 the time?

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In the place where I was living and

10 at the time - it depends on the time of the year, in fact - but for a

11 while I was a member of the HVO, and another part of the year --

12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] No. Fine. That's very good.

13 Now, you are going to read the oath in your own language. Could you

14 please read out this text.

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

16 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much. You may

18 sit down now.


20 [Witness answered through interpreter]

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then. Since you

22 have to testify before the Court, it is my duty to specify a couple of

23 points to you with regard to the way in which this hearing is going to

24 proceed and about what you will have to say. You will have to reply to

25 questions which will be put to you by the representatives of the

Page 2393

1 Prosecution, sitting to your right. It is the person seated to your

2 right.

3 Thereupon, the Defence team for the accused, seated to your left,

4 will also ask you some questions. And the three Judges, sitting in front

5 of you, may intervene at any point, depending on your replies, in order

6 for you to clarify any of the replies you may have given to either the

7 Prosecution or the Defence.

8 Since you have given us the oath that you will speak the truth

9 and only the truth, it means that you can't give us false testimony. If

10 you were to do so anyway, you would be liable for prosecution for that

11 and a possible penalty of up to six years in prison.

12 Since you have given us your oath, you have to say the truth.

13 Please do try and reply to the questions put to you in as a

14 comprehensive and precise and specific way as possible, in order for this

15 Trial Chamber to get a whole idea -- a complete idea of what you yourself

16 have seen.

17 When the Defence asks you questions, reply in the same way, in a

18 comprehensive and specific manner.

19 It is also my duty to inform you that the Rules of Procedure

20 state that whatever you say in the course of your testimony may not be

21 used against you, which means that you can give your witness account with

22 no constraints, no worries at all. In case you come up against a

23 difficulty, a problem in relation to any question, do please share that

24 problem with the Trial Chamber, because that's why we are here, to solve

25 any difficulties. Is that clear, sir?

Page 2394

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, then. I am turning

3 to the Prosecution, and I give you the floor.

4 We have an hour and a half, and we shall have our next break at

5 half past 11.00.

6 MR. WITHOPF: Thank you very much, Mr. President, Your Honours.

7 Examined by Mr. Withopf:

8 Q. Mr. Adzaip, you informed the Trial Chamber that you were born in

9 Travnik. Can you please also inform the Trial Chamber where you lived in

10 early 1993.

11 A. Also in Travnik.

12 Q. Between your birth and early 1993, did you also live in Travnik?

13 A. Yes, throughout that period.

14 Q. Mr. Adzaip, did there come a time when you joined the HVO?

15 A. In June 1992.

16 Q. And which military unit of the HVO did you join in June 1992?

17 A. In those day, it was called the 1st Independent Company of the

18 HVO.

19 Q. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber where the 1st Independent

20 Company of the HVO was based.

21 A. It was based in the former JNA centre in Travnik.

22 Q. Can you please briefly inform the Trial Chamber what your duties

23 have been at this point in time.

24 A. My duties were to hold guard duty in town and to secure certain

25 HVO facilities.

Page 2395

1 Q. Mr. Adzaip, the town you are referring to, which town is it?

2 A. Travnik.

3 Q. Very well. Did there come a time, Mr. Adzaip, when you noticed

4 foreigners arriving in Travnik?

5 A. Yes. This happened in 1992, in the summer.

6 Q. And, Mr. Adzaip, what sort of foreigners were arriving in the

7 summer 1992 in Travnik?

8 A. They came from Middle East countries or probably Northern Africa,

9 and this was obvious from the colour of their skin, their appearance, the

10 clothing they wore, and many other elements which indicated that they

11 came from areas outside the former Yugoslavia.

12 Q. These foreigners from the areas you just indicated, were they

13 armed?

14 A. Oh, yes.

15 Q. And can you please detail what sort of arms they had.

16 A. Automatic infantry weapons.

17 Q. Can you please also inform the Trial Chamber whether these

18 foreigners wore any military uniforms.

19 A. They did, but some had a mixture of military uniforms and their

20 original clothing. But quite a number of them wore uniforms.

21 Q. Do you know, Mr. Adzaip, where these armed foreigners wearing

22 uniforms were based in Travnik?

23 A. There were quite a lot of them in the lower part of the city,

24 around the Sarena mosque. And I saw quite a number next to the drugstore

25 in the upper part of the city.

Page 2396

1 Q. Did there come a time, Mr. Adzaip, when you have been arrested?

2 A. Oh, yes.

3 Q. And can you please inform the Trial Chamber as to when this

4 happened.

5 A. In June 1993.

6 Q. Can you please tell us who arrested you.

7 A. The Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

8 Q. How do you know that the ones who arrested you were members of

9 the Armija of Bosnia and Herzegovina?

10 A. I knew because they were in uniform and they bore the insignia of

11 the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

12 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, I'm now going to show

13 via the Sanction technology the Prosecution Exhibit P4.

14 Q. Mr. Adzaip, in front of you on the screen you have a photo board

15 with a number of military insignia. Can you please inform the Trial

16 Chamber which one, if any, was worn by -- was used by the ABiH soldiers

17 who arrested you in June 1993.

18 A. Number 12.

19 Q. Thank you very much.

20 MR. WITHOPF: I state for the record that the Witness Adzaip

21 identified the military badge number 12 on Prosecution Exhibit P4 as the

22 one used by the soldiers which arrested him in June 1993 in Travnik.

23 Q. Mr. Adzaip, in June 1993 your arrest, was it in the beginning, in

24 the middle, or towards the end of June 1993?

25 A. Around the middle of the month.

Page 2397

1 Q. After your arrest, where have you been brought to by the ABiH

2 soldiers who arrested you?

3 A. To the former barracks of the JNA, which was situated in Travnik.

4 Q. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber for how long you have

5 been detained in the former JNA barracks in Travnik.

6 A. For 11 days.

7 Q. In the course of the 11 days you were detained in the former JNA

8 barracks in Travnik, have you seen any other detainees?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And can you please inform the Trial Chamber how many of other

11 detainees you have seen in the former JNA barracks in Travnik.

12 A. The cell that I was in, we were in all about 20 of us.

13 Q. The 20 of you, can you please tell us about the ethnic background

14 of the detainees.

15 A. All 20 were Catholics; that is, Croats from the area of Travnik.

16 Q. Can you please tell us whether the detainees were soldiers and/or

17 civilians.

18 A. The vast majority were civilians. And out of the 20, there may

19 have been only 3 or 4 military men.

20 Q. Mr. Adzaip, do you know why you have been arrested by members of

21 the ABiH?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Have you ever been told by anybody why you have been arrested?

24 A. No.

25 Q. In the course of your arrest, have you been interrogated?

Page 2398

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And who interrogated you?

3 A. Officers, probably, from the information services of the Army of

4 Bosnia and Herzegovina.

5 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, I'm now going to show

6 the witness a photograph via Sanction. And since it is a new Prosecution

7 exhibit, there are the nine copies available for distribution.

8 Q. Mr. Adzaip, can you please tell us what you can see on the

9 photograph in front of you.

10 A. On this photograph, I can see and recognise the room in which I

11 was detained in Travnik in the former JNA barracks.

12 Q. Witness Adzaip, you will be provided with a paper copy of this

13 photograph. And would you please date and sign it.

14 A. [Witness complies]

15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Prosecution -- could the

16 Prosecution tell us when this photograph was taken, because we assume it

17 wasn't taken at the time when the witness was detained there.

18 MR. WITHOPF: That's completely correct, Mr. President. The

19 photograph was taken in the year 2002 in the course of the investigation

20 against the two accused.

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

22 Very well. Mr. Registrar, will you give us an exhibit number.

23 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the exhibit number will be P54.

24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] P54. Thank you.

25 Please continue.

Page 2399

1 MR. WITHOPF: Thank you, Mr. President.

2 Q. You said you were detained for 11 days in June 1993 in the former

3 JNA barracks in Travnik. Have you given any documentation about your

4 release after the 11 days?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And what is this documentation about?

7 A. It is a document I received upon my release indicating that I am

8 being released and that I was free to live and work in Travnik.

9 Q. And do you know, Mr. Adzaip, who issued this document?

10 A. It was issued by the Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

11 Q. And do you know, Mr. Adzaip, who signed this release document?

12 A. Mehmet Alagic's name is printed, but as far as I can remember it

13 was actually signed on his behalf by Salko Beba.

14 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, I'm going to present a

15 document to the witness. Again, the nine copies are available for

16 distribution. The copies are available in both the B/C/S language and

17 the English language.

18 Can the B/C/S copy of the document please be -- can the witness

19 please be provided with the B/C/S version of the document and can it

20 please be put on the ELMO.

21 Q. Mr. Adzaip, to your right you see a document. Can you please

22 tell us what this document is about.

23 A. It is the document I was given after I was released from

24 detention in Travnik.

25 Q. Thank you very much.

Page 2400

1 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, the Prosecution wishes

2 to tender this document into evidence.

3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could the witness please sign

4 this document and date it with today's date.

5 THE WITNESS: [Witness complies]

6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] On both the English and B/C/S

7 version of the document, please.

8 THE WITNESS: [Witness complies]

9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, can we have an

10 exhibit number for the B/C/S and the English versions.

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the exhibit number for the B/C/S

12 version will be P55, and the exhibit number for the English translation

13 will be P55/E.

14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. Mr. Withopf.

15 MR. WITHOPF: Thank you, Mr. President.

16 Q. After your release from the former JNA barracks in Travnik, did

17 you go back to serve within the HVO?

18 A. No.

19 Q. And can you please inform the Trial Chamber as to why -- as to

20 why not.

21 A. When I was released, Travnik was fully under the control of the

22 BH army, so that I was unable to leave Travnik and go to the area under

23 HVO control.

24 Q. Did there come a time, Mr. Adzaip, when you have been arrested

25 for a second time?

Page 2401

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber about the date when you

3 have been arrested for the second time.

4 A. I was arrested for the second time in October 1993.

5 Q. And do you recall, Mr. Adzaip, the exact date?

6 A. The 19th of October.

7 Q. On the 19th of October, 1993, you were arrested. Can you please

8 inform the Trial Chamber as to where you were arrested.

9 A. In Travnik.

10 Q. Can you please tell us who this time arrested you in Travnik.

11 A. On that occasion, I was arrested by Muslim forces, the so-called

12 Mujahedin.

13 Q. And can you please provide us with some details about that

14 arrest.

15 A. I had been visiting a friend, and I was on my way back home. And

16 close to the flat where I lived, I was stopped. They asked me my name.

17 They started pushing me around and beating me. And then they took us in

18 the direction of the underground garages of the Amerikanka building in

19 Travnik.

20 Q. The time you have been beaten by the Mujahedin, the Muslim forces

21 who arrested you, what sort of tools, if any, did they use to beat you?

22 A. Their hands, their legs, and at times with rifle butts.

23 Q. Mr. Adzaip, you were saying that they took "us in the direction

24 of the underground garages of the Amerikanka building in Travnik." Were

25 there any other persons who have been arrested?

Page 2402

1 A. When they took me to those underground garages, they pushed me

2 into a van. They covered me with a blanket, and then I could feel that

3 there was some other men with me in that vehicle.

4 Q. After you were covered with a blanket, Mr. Adzaip, what happened

5 then?

6 A. We were taken in that same vehicle in a direction that was

7 unknown to me.

8 Q. And where were you brought to?

9 A. We were taken -- I really didn't know where or for how long the

10 trip took, but we were taken to a house in a village.

11 Q. And what happened to you once you arrived at this house in a

12 village?

13 A. When we arrived at that house, we were taken out of the car with

14 our heads down, and then we were locked up in one of the rooms in that

15 house.

16 Q. And how many people were locked up in a room in that house?

17 A. Together with me, there were five people.

18 Q. And do you recall the name or the names of the other people?

19 A. Yes. I can't remember the name of one person only.

20 Q. Can you please provide us with the names of the persons you can

21 remember.

22 A. Ivo Fisic, Ivan Rajkovic, and Dragan Popovic, and I can't

23 remember the name of the fourth person.

24 Q. Do you know, Mr. Adzaip, the ethnic background of Ivan Rajkovic

25 and Ivo Fisic?

Page 2403

1 A. They were Croats and Catholics.

2 Q. And do you also know the ethnic background of Mr. Dragan Popovic?

3 A. He was a Serb Orthodox.

4 Q. Did you know or did you get to know where this house you and the

5 other ones were detained in, where this house is or was located?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Did there come a time later on when you got to know where this

8 house was located, in which area?

9 A. In the course of my stay in that house, I saw a sticker above the

10 door which said that the house had been blessed, so it must have been

11 owned by a Croat who was a Catholic. And after talking to people to whom

12 I told about this, they suppose it must have been in the area to the

13 north of Guca Gora, Maljine, and Mehurici, where there were some Croat

14 villages.

15 Q. And is Guca Gora amongst the villages in that area?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. After you were brought to this house and locked up together with

18 Ivan Rajkovic, Ivo Fisic, Dragan Popovic, and a fourth person, what

19 happened to you?

20 A. In the course of that entire first evening and the day after, we

21 were abused, beaten non-stop, and many other things. And then we were

22 subjected to a kind of interrogation. But for the most part, we were

23 just beaten.

24 Q. And do you know for what reason, if any, you were beaten?

25 A. I don't know any reason at all. I can't see any reason.

Page 2404

1 Q. And, Mr. Adzaip, do you know who beat you?

2 A. All the guards who were taking turns there, they would come in

3 and beat us up.

4 Q. The guards, were they civilians or were they soldiers?

5 A. They were soldiers.

6 Q. What sort of soldiers? Of which army?

7 A. The Muslim forces.

8 Q. Mr. Adzaip, you were mentioning that you were beaten the entire

9 first evening and the day after non-stop. Can you please go in some more

10 detail in respect to such beatings.

11 A. We were placed in that rather small room, and from time to time,

12 when the guards were bored or they felt like it, they would come in and

13 they would take turns and they would beat us with whatever they could.

14 And sometimes they would take us out of the room and they would try and

15 hit us so that we could fall to the ground and they could see if they

16 could make us bleed or many other things.

17 Q. Were all of the detainees you were mentioning earlier on beaten

18 during the first and the second day in the manner you just described?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And were the members of the Muslim forces who guarded and beat

21 you, were they successful in making you bleed?

22 A. Yes, they were.

23 Q. During your detention, is there anything significant that

24 happened in the course of your detention?

25 A. Yes.

Page 2405

1 Q. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber what was so significant

2 that you still recall it today.

3 A. Well, on the second or the third morning, early in the morning,

4 the door was opened and all of us, except for Ivan Rajkovic, who was left

5 behind, were taken out. The guards took us out. And when I came out of

6 the house, I noticed that there were quite a few other soldiers there and

7 they led us down a path to a clearing. On both sides of the road, there

8 were armed soldiers all along.

9 When we got to the clearing, there were some more soldiers there.

10 And in the middle of the clearing, they had already dug a hole. And the

11 four of us were standing before that hole, 2 or 3 metres away, and the

12 other soldiers were placed in two rows maybe, on the other side of the

13 hole.

14 A little bit later, one of the guards came and tied our hands

15 behind our backs, and they were -- they were yelling, "Tekbir,

16 Allah-U-Ekber," and then one of them came and got Dragan Popovic, who was

17 the last in our row, he took him and made him stand before the hole.

18 When he was standing there, the same man made him fall. He tripped him

19 up so he fell on the side of the hole. And one of the soldiers, who was

20 standing in front of this entire group which was there, moved in the

21 direction of Dragan and he took out his knife.

22 When he came close to Dragan Popovic, he called Hasan twice.

23 Hasan came from the group of soldiers. He was kneeling. And then he

24 lifted Dragan's chin and he slit his throat with a knife. And then there

25 were more calls "Tekbir," and then Hasan was meant to sever Dragan's

Page 2406

1 head, but he couldn't manage. And then he left, and another one came.

2 He threw the knife into the hole and he cut off Dragan's head. He

3 separated it completely from the body, and he proudly lifted it up. And

4 then they went on shouting. And then he moved slowly in our direction,

5 and he -- he made us kiss the head on the mouth -- on the lips and on the

6 front. And then he walked to the hole. They pushed the body into the

7 hole. And then he threw the head in as well.

8 Afterwards, our hands were untied, and then we were pushed to the

9 hole and we were made to cover it.

10 Q. Mr. Adzaip, a number of questions for clarification. You were

11 mentioning that the four of you were placed in front of the hole which

12 was already dug at this point in time. Can you please provide us with

13 the names of the four of you.

14 A. Dalibor Adzaip, then we had Ivo Fisic, then somebody else I

15 didn't know. I can't remember his name. And the late Dragan Popovic.

16 Q. You mentioned that you'd seen a number of soldiers once

17 Mr. Popovic was beheaded. Do you have a recollection as to how many

18 soldiers you have seen?

19 A. Altogether, according to my estimate, somewhere between 80 and

20 100 soldiers.

21 Q. And what sort of soldiers were they?

22 A. They were the same soldiers who were keeping us prisoner, the

23 members of the Muslim forces.

24 Q. When you say "the members of the Muslim forces," are you making

25 reference to the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina?

Page 2407

1 A. No. These were the extremists, the extreme forces.

2 Q. And what sort of soldiers are you describing as the extremist

3 forces?

4 A. Like the ones who kept us prisoner. Whoever is capable of an act

5 of this sort are extremists. There was no need for anything like that.

6 That's why I called them extremists.

7 Q. Were Mujahedin amongst these extremists?

8 A. Yes, certainly.

9 Q. Mr. Adzaip, you mentioned a certain Hasan who started to sever

10 Mr. Popovic's head from his body. And you mentioned a second person, who

11 finally succeeded to do so. This Hasan and this second person, did they

12 volunteer to do the beheading or have they -- have they been asked by

13 somebody?

14 A. Hasan was called by the other guy, who then in the end - and

15 perhaps it was a matter of a ritual or something. And I think Hasan was

16 given the order and the other one probably did it of his own free will.

17 Q. The one who gave him -- who gave Hasan the order, did you get the

18 impression that this was the person in charge, meaning a commander?

19 A. One can get that impression because in -- during the whole time

20 of that ritual, he was standing before everybody else and he was the one

21 who called Hasan out. So he was the most involved. He was walking

22 around all the time, and one could get the impression that he was some

23 sort of commander.

24 Q. After you covered the hole with the corpse of Dragan Popovic with

25 earth, what happened then?

Page 2408

1 A. We were taken back to the same house where we had been held

2 before, and Ivan Rajkovic, who was left behind, was still waiting for us.

3 Q. Did there come a time, Mr. Adzaip, when Mr. Ivo Fisic and Mr.

4 Ivan Rajkovic were taken away?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And, Mr. Adzaip, do you have a recollection as to when this

7 happened?

8 A. First of all, the fourth guy was taken away first - I can't

9 remember his name - after two days maybe, after this incident. And

10 Rajkovic and Fisic were taken away at some point in November.

11 Q. Do you have a recollection whether it was in the beginning of

12 November, in the middle, or towards the end of November?

13 A. Sometime in the middle of November.

14 Q. And what happened to you, obviously left behind?

15 A. I was held there for some more time, and then later on I was also

16 consigned to the regular Armed Forces of the BH.

17 Q. Do you recall for how long you have been left behind?

18 A. Perhaps for another fortnight, maybe 20 days.

19 Q. You were just mentioning, Mr. Adzaip, that you were consigned to

20 the regular armed forces of the BH. Can you please provide us with some

21 more detail as to how this happened.

22 A. In the same way it happened with everyone else: They came into

23 the room, they took me out. And in the same way I was brought there,

24 they took me back to Travnik and they handed me over to the military

25 police of the BH army, which at the time was stationed at the former JNA

Page 2409

1 barracks in Travnik.

2 Q. For clarification, who handed you over to the military police of

3 the BiH army which at that time was stationed at the former JNA barracks

4 in Travnik?

5 A. Those same Muslim forces that held me prisoner in that house.

6 The same people.

7 Q. What happened to you, Mr. Adzaip, after you have been handed over

8 to the military police of the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Travnik?

9 A. I stayed there one night. And afterwards, I was taken to the KP

10 Dom Zenica.

11 Q. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber, Mr. Adzaip, for how long

12 you stayed in the KP Dom in Zenica.

13 A. Until the 21st of March, 1994.

14 Q. And on the 21st of March, 1994, have you been released?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Did you get to know, Mr. Adzaip, whether during the time of your

17 detention in Orasac, whether anybody informed any member of the ABiH

18 about the fact that you have been detained?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber, Mr. Adzaip, who informed

21 members of the ABiH about the fact that you have been detained in Orasac.

22 A. My mother, but she basically didn't know where I was being held

23 and what happened to me. But since this certificate, signed by Alagic

24 and Beba, certified that I could live and work freely in Travnik. She

25 went and got in touch with them and asked them to try and find out where

Page 2410

1 I was, what was going on and everything else. She waited for a sign of

2 life, to find out that I was alive and well and where I was.

3 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Adzaip.

4 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, this concludes the

5 examination-in-chief of the Prosecution.

6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

7 Questioned by the Court:

8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I have some questions to put to

9 you before I give the floor to the Defence team.

10 First of all, before asking you any questions, just now we were

11 submitted the documents P55/BCS and P55 English version. I have informed

12 the parties that it does not appear to me that the English version is the

13 exact equivalent of the B/C/S translation. I've got four comments to

14 make in this respect.

15 At the very top of the document in B/C/S, we have "OG Bosanska

16 Krajina" [as interpreted] and in the English document, it just says

17 "Operation Group." So in theory, what should have been done because

18 proper translation, no additions there; whereas, the translator seems to

19 have added an extra piece of information which was not necessary in a

20 translation. Just "OG" would have been sufficient.

21 And also, on the 17th of June, 1993, in the B/C/S document there

22 is handwritten reference which I can't identify, but apparently it is

23 "JUI," something like that. Whereas, in the English translation, we see

24 no reference of that.

25 And the third comment: In the B/C/S document, between the

Page 2411

1 signature and the main body of the text, we can see completely illegible

2 references, apart from the reference "BS." And in the English

3 translation, we have no indication of the existence of this paragraph,

4 which should be there but has not been translated into English.

5 And the fourth point: Whoever signs on behalf of Alagic -- well,

6 the signature in the B/C/S document says "Beba," and then we can't

7 identify the name. Whereas, in the English translation, it says "Salko

8 Beba." So the translator apparently specified the first name; whereas in

9 the translation they should simply stick to translating what is in the

10 original.

11 So these are the four points I wanted to make to the translation.

12 Apart from that, when such a document submitted to the Court is

13 translated, the general rule in Roman law - but I suppose it applies to

14 all countries in the world - is that the document which is translated --

15 well, we have to know who translated it. And it would have been a good

16 idea to have a reference to the name of the translator.

17 Right, then. I have decided to make these points for the

18 transcript.

19 Now, sir, coming back to the witness.

20 You have explained to us that when you were held prisoner in that

21 house by the Muslim forces, you were taken out with Popovic, Fisic, and

22 the third person whose identity you can't provide. How is it possible

23 that having lived through such a terrible experience such as yours you

24 still don't know this person's name? Did you not talk to him? Did he

25 not tell you his name?

Page 2412

1 A. Yes, he did tell me, this person whose name I can't remember.

2 But in the course of all that -- I mean, all that was two or three days

3 later, and then two or three days later he left. And for the most part,

4 I spent my time with Rajkovic and I have him to thank for having remained

5 kind of normal. He was a psychologist at a school.

6 And I am doing my best to forget all this. And after ten years,

7 I've come here to try and recollect all that, because in the meantime

8 I've never talked or thought about this, because I think my life is ahead

9 of me. I was rather young at the time. And even at the time I thought

10 that I had my life ahead of me. And I think the best thing for me to do

11 is to move on and not to dwell on that for the rest of my life.

12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. When all four of

13 you were taken close to that hole which had been dug, and at that point

14 Popovic was taken -- Dragan Popovic -- why him and why not you? Why was

15 he selected? Ten years later, do you have an explanation for the fact

16 that it was him who was chosen, not you yourself, not the psychologist,

17 not Fisic? Why was he executed? I mean, do you know the reason for

18 that? If you don't know, you simply say "I don't know." Because you

19 must have thought about this. Do you know why it was him and not you?

20 A. No.

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you don't know.

22 You also said, in reply to a question from the Prosecution, that

23 there was a commander present there, the commander for those 80 or 100

24 people who were there. You don't know his name? You've never found out

25 who it was?

Page 2413

1 A. No.

2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And was he dressed in the same

3 way as all the others? Did he have any -- the same insignia, or was he

4 the same as everyone else?

5 A. He was dressed in a normal way, and there was nothing to

6 distinguish him from the others apart from the fact that, as I've said

7 before, I thought that he, since he was standing before everybody else

8 and he was kind of organising the whole thing, orchestrating it. I

9 thought he was the commander. But I can't say for sure.

10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. You've explained in

11 reply to a question put to you by the Prosecution that the document that

12 was given to you and your mother had that document. And when you were

13 arrested the second time the document that was given to you in June, when

14 you were released on the 17th of June, in the meantime your parents held

15 onto that document.

16 A. Yes.

17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And your mother, who was

18 looking for you, because she didn't know where you were, she went to see

19 whom exactly in order to find out about you?

20 A. Well, the same people who signed that certificate stating that I

21 was free to live and work freely in Travnik: Salko Beba and Alagic and

22 perhaps one of his colleagues.

23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So she went to see Mr. Salko

24 Beba and Alagic; is that right?

25 A. Yes.

Page 2414

1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] My last question: You said

2 that when you were arrested the first time you were interrogated by

3 officers of the information service. What is it that makes you say that

4 they were officers and also that they belonged to the information

5 services or intelligence services?

6 A. I think they belonged to the intelligence service because they

7 are the people who do that, I suppose. And I think they were officers

8 because of the way they looked and the way they were dressed and

9 everything else. I didn't really see any rank insignia on them. But I

10 assume that it couldn't have been an ordinary soldier.

11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And when he questioned you,

12 what did he want to know? What kind of questions did he put to you? Why

13 were you interrogated?

14 A. That was the time when the conflict started between the HVO and

15 the BH army. And they asked me about everything I knew about the HVO

16 forces around Travnik, where I was, what I had done, and everything else

17 linked to the HVO. They wanted to get information about the arming, the

18 deployment of HVO units.

19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.

20 Yes, Mr. Withopf.

21 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, in relation to the

22 comments you made in respect to the translation, I can provide you with a

23 few explanations.

24 First of all, I actually have the original of the document with

25 me which has been provided yesterday evening for the first time by the

Page 2415

1 Witness Adzaip. Based on my limited knowledge of the B/C/S language -

2 however, I invite the B/C/S speakers on the Defence side to comment on it

3 if they wish to do - the three letters "GOD" do not mean anything else

4 but "anno domini." This is the usual thing which is annexed to any date

5 in the Bosnian Croat or Serbian Croat language.

6 The fourth paragraph, Mr. President, Your Honours, you described

7 as being illegible. There is no fourth paragraph. By the manner

8 Witness Adzaip kept this document - and the witness can confirm this -

9 the fourth paragraph is actually some sort of a mirror of the first

10 paragraph, because the witness kept the document as such and because he

11 kept it for many years as such exactly this thing happened.

12 If Your Honours, Mr. President, wish to provide you with the

13 original, I can certainly do so.

14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I think the best idea would be

15 to show the Defence the original and then the Chamber will have a look at

16 it.

17 So, Madam Usher, will you please show the original to Defence

18 counsel.

19 To the accused.

20 [Trial Chamber confers]

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. The Prosecution has

22 produced for us the original document. We take note of several material

23 elements: First of all, that this document was stuck together with

24 scotch tape; that after the date there is "GOD" in blue; that the

25 signature is in red; but there is a part what I described as a fourth

Page 2416

1 paragraph, which is in black and "BS" is mentioned. So there's no

2 a priori explanation whether it's a reflection of another document that

3 was printed over this document. And also, in the paragraph above, one

4 can hardly see, and there appears to have been some imprint of another

5 document over this document.

6 The most important thing is that this document consists of eight

7 pieces that were stuck together.

8 So I give back this document to the Prosecution.

9 Very well. We have another 20 minutes for the cross-examination

10 up to the break, so I would now like to give the floor to Defence

11 counsel.

12 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.

13 Cross-examined by Ms. Residovic:

14 Q. [Interpretation] Good day, Mr. Adzaip. I'm Edina Residovic,

15 Defence counsel for General Enver Hadzihasanovic. I am really sorry that

16 you went through such a terrible experience, and the Defence for

17 General Hadzihasanovic has no questions for you.

18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19 What about the other Defence counsel?

20 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. In view of

21 the fact that today's testimony does not relate to the counts with which

22 Mr. Kubura is charged, we have no questions for this witness either.

23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

24 I turn back to the Prosecution again to see whether they have any

25 additional questions, since the Defence counsel have not cross-examined

Page 2417

1 this witness at all.

2 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, may I please, based on

3 the comments you made in respect to the original document, ask one or two

4 questions to the witness to give some explanations?

5 Thank you very much.

6 Further examination by Mr. Withopf:

7 Q. Mr. Adzaip, can you please confirm that you handed over this

8 document personally to me yesterday at about 1900 hours?

9 A. Yes. Yes.

10 Q. And, Mr. Adzaip, can you please inform the Trial Chamber, if you

11 know, who put the eight pieces of this document together.

12 A. It's not eight parts of the document. This is a document that I

13 carried in my pocket for a while. And because it was folded, the paper

14 was about to tear completely, and so I taped it together. And later on I

15 kept it in a normal file, and that is how I've preserved it to the

16 present day.

17 Q. Can you please confirm that this document is the exact very

18 document you were handed over at the point in time when you were released

19 from the Travnik barracks.

20 A. Yes, it is.

21 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Adzaip.

22 MR. WITHOPF: Thank you very much, Mr. President.

23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Adzaip, your testimony is

24 over, as the Prosecution has asked you all the questions it had for you;

25 the Defence, that could have cross-examined you, didn't. You also

Page 2418

1 answered some questions from the Chamber for the sake of clarification.

2 We thank you for coming, the more so as you testified about very painful

3 events that took place in 1993. We wish you a safe return to the United

4 States, as that is the country you are living in at present.

5 And I'm going to ask Madam Usher to accompany you out of the

6 courtroom.

7 [The witness withdrew]

8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The agenda for this hearing has

9 been exhausted, since the witnesses planned have been heard.

10 Tomorrow, according to the scheduling, we have one witness, in

11 fact, planned. Will that be the last witness for this week, Mr. Withopf?

12 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, that's correct. That's the last

13 witness for this week.

14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Has this witness

15 arrived? I suppose he has.

16 MR. WITHOPF: Yes, the witness has arrived.

17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

18 I'll give you the floor in a minute.

19 Regarding next week, again we have a scheduling from Monday to

20 Friday with several witnesses. There will be one witness a day, except

21 for Wednesday, when we have two witnesses planned which may continue over

22 on to Thursday. So that is the planning for next week.

23 The Defence.

24 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. A

25 couple of days ago we received this schedule, according to which there

Page 2419

1 were two witnesses planned for tomorrow. So we don't know which witness

2 will be coming tomorrow.

3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Can the Prosecution help us and

4 clarify this point? I think that the answer is that the witness that we

5 had a moment ago, he was planned to continue tomorrow. That is why there

6 were two witnesses. But Mr. Withopf will give us all the necessary

7 clarifications. Who do we have for tomorrow, then?

8 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, your interpretation is completely

9 correct. The first name on the list for tomorrow is the very same

10 witness whose testimony we just concluded five minutes ago.

11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Is that answer

12 satisfactory? I see.

13 As for the planning for the future, I never give the names

14 because of the possibility that some witnesses may request protective

15 measures. So I will never mention the names of the people who will be

16 testifying. So regarding the measures taken for witnesses will also

17 apply to the Defence when they will be producing their witnesses.

18 Are there any other outstanding matters to address? Let me ask

19 the Prosecution. Can the Prosecution give us any further information

20 regarding the CD-ROMs and their admission?

21 MR. WITHOPF: Yes, Mr. President, I can. The technical work has

22 been done. The respective portions of the video footage have been

23 isolated and nine copies containing only such portions will be tendered

24 into evidence tomorrow and will be handed over.

25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Thank you for

Page 2420

1 informing us about this.

2 As you know, there are a few more rulings that are outstanding

3 and will be made very shortly. There is a decision regarding the

4 witnesses pursuant to 92 bis witnesses and a decision will be made very

5 shortly.

6 Then there is also on stand-by a decision regarding the admission

7 of certain facts from three other cases. We are about to take a decision

8 on that. And the response of the Prosecution, which we still don't

9 have - or maybe it is about to be produced; I don't know - anyway, we are

10 awaiting that. So there are two decisions to be rendered.

11 It seems to me to be useful to say that with regard to the

12 testimony collected through Article 92 bis, which was not objected to on

13 the part of the Defence, that it would be appropriate to have admitted

14 into evidence the written statements, which were admitted, and to do that

15 we will take advantage of a shorter sitting at which a testimony has been

16 completed to admit into evidence the statements of 92 bis witnesses.

17 To do that, we will apply the following procedure: It will be

18 sufficient to refer to the statement, the name of the witness, the date

19 when that statement was made, the facts contained in the statement; at

20 which point the registrar will give us an exhibit number. And then the

21 Defence will have the number in their possession. This shouldn't take

22 too long, but it is necessary for us to be able to admit those written

23 statements into evidence. This applies only to written statements which

24 were not challenged in any way.

25 Are there any other observations to be made? If not, I will

Page 2421

1 adjourn the sitting and invite everyone to come back tomorrow for the

2 morning sitting, which will begin as usual at 9.00 a.m. Thank you.

3 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 11.20 a.m.,

4 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 5th day of

5 February, 2004, at 9.00 a.m.