Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 18163

 1                          Monday, 11 April 2005

 2                          [Open session]

 3                          --- Upon commencing at 2.17 p.m.

 4                          [The accused entered court]

 5            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, could you call

 6    the case, please.

 7            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Thank you Mr. President, case

 8    number IT-01-47-T, the Prosecutor versus Enver Hadzihasanovic and Amir

 9    Kubura.

10            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, could we have the

11    appearances for the Prosecutor please.

12            MR. MUNDIS:  Thank you, Mr. President.  Good afternoon

13    Your Honours, counsel, and everyone in and around the courtroom.  For the

14    Prosecution, Tecla Henry-Benjamin and Daryl Mundis, assisted by our case

15    manager, Andres Vatter.

16            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Mundis.

17            Could we have the appearances for Defence counsel, please.

18            MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good day, Mr. President, good day,

19    Your Honours.  On behalf of General Enver Hadzihasanovic, Edina Residovic,

20    lead counsel, Stephane Bourgon, co-counsel, and Alexis Demirdjian, our

21    legal assistant.

22            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could we have the appearances

23    for the other Defence team, please.

24            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Good day, Your Honours.  On

25    behalf of Mr. Kubura, Rodney Dixon, Fahrudin Ibrisimovic, and Nermin

Page 18164

 1    Mulalic, our legal assistant.

 2            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Before we start hearing the

 3    witness scheduled for today, there are a number of issues we have to deal

 4    with.  First of all, we have the 92 bis statements that have to be

 5    tendered into evidence.  I'd like to remind you that Defence counsel

 6    submitted a motion requesting authorisation to modify their list of

 7    witnesses and reference was made to 92 bis statements that had been taken.

 8    When reviewing the submissions, we noted that a witness, a new witness

 9    subsequently appeared in the statements that we received.  This concerns

10    Mr. Zukanovic.  We would like to know whether the Prosecution has any

11    objections to make to having Mr. Zukanovic's statement admitted into

12    evidence.

13            Mr. Mundis.

14            MR. MUNDIS:  Thank you, Mr. President.  During the course of the

15    discussions between the parties with respect to the Rule 92 bis

16    statements, Mr. Zukanovic's statement was certainly among those that was

17    included in that material and we have no objection to that statement being

18    admitted into evidence.

19            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  Mr. Registrar, with

20    regard to the statements, the 92 bis statements that we have received,

21    that have authenticated, could we have some numbers.

22            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Thank you Mr. President.  The 92

23    bis statements --

24            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a minute.  There is

25    something that Mr. Bourgon would like to say.

Page 18165

 1            MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  Good day,

 2    Madam Judge, good day, Your Honour.  There is a correction I would like to

 3    make, Mr. President, concerning the new witness who is referred to in the

 4    motion that we filed on the 4th of April.  As far as Mr. Zukanovic is

 5    concerned, are we in private session?

 6            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could we go into private

 7    session, please?

 8                          [Private session]

 9  (redacted)

10  (redacted)

11  (redacted)

12  (redacted)

13  (redacted)

14  (redacted)

15  (redacted)

16  (redacted)

17  (redacted)

18  (redacted)

19  (redacted)

20  (redacted)

21                          [Open session]

22            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are back in open session now.

23            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Having heard what the Defence

24    has just said, Mr. Registrar, could we have some numbers for these

25    exhibits.

Page 18166

 1            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President, the 92

 2    bis statements will be admitted into evidence.  The exhibit numbers will

 3    be as follows:  Adnan Gunic's statement shall have the number 2090; the

 4    English version will be DH2090/E.

 5            Hasan Zukanovic's statement is admitted into evidence.  DH2091

 6    will be the exhibit number and the English version DH2091/E.

 7             Dedo Suljic's statement is admitted under the number DH2092 and

 8    the English version will be DH2092/E.

 9            Mustafa Polutak's statement is admitted into evidence under number

10    DH2093 and the English version will be DH2093/E.

11            Jeremy Fleming's statement will be admitted into DH2094 and the

12    English version will be DH2094 -- I apologise.  There is just one version

13    it's DH2094.  Andrew Jackson's statement is admitted into evidence under

14    the number DH2095 and that is the only version that we have available.

15             William Stutt's statement is admitted into evidence under

16    DH209 -- I seem to be a little lost, DH2095 -- no, I apologise.  DH2096

17    and the English version will be DH2096 --

18            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a minute, Mr. Registrar,

19    could you say that in English because I can see that the English

20    transcript is not following what you have been saying.

21            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President, I will

22    perhaps start again.

23            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Please start again, but in

24    English.

25            THE REGISTRAR: [In English] The reference DH2094, the declaration

Page 18167

 1    of Andrew Jackson is admitted into evidence under the reference DH2095;

 2    the declaration of William Stutt is admitted into evidence under the

 3    reference DH2096; the declaration by Mr. Pajam Akhavan - I spell it for

 4    the record, A-k-h-a-v-a-n - is admitted into evidence under the reference

 5    DH2097. [Interpretation] And that is the list of the 92 bis statements.

 6            Thank you, Mr. President.

 7            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, I can see that in the

 8    transcript when we had DH, the -- "D 8" would appear in the transcript.

 9    So you should check the transcript, Mr. Registrar, and make the necessary

10    corrections.

11            The Defence also filed a motion last week dated the 1st of April,

12    a motion concerning documents that have been marked for identification.

13    414, 939, et cetera, and we now need final exhibit numbers since the

14    Defence has provided us with the English transcripts.

15            Are there any objections that the Prosecution would like to raise,

16    Mr. Mundis?

17            MR. MUNDIS:  No, no, Mr. President.

18            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  Mr. Registrar, could

19    you deal with the matter rapidly but slowly at the same time so that the

20    court reporter can follow you.

21            Mr. Bourgon.

22            MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  The

23    purpose of filing the motion, Mr. President, was to avoid the necessity of

24    reading out hundreds of numbers.  Perhaps if the Prosecution agrees, we

25    could simply take note of the Chamber's decision and then the registrar

Page 18168

 1    could deal with the file ...

 2            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, we have agreed to this

 3    request.  In the future, the registrar should tell us that ID414 has

 4    become Exhibit 414, et cetera, and this will enable you us to save time.

 5    Otherwise it will take ages to deal with the matter.

 6            We can do this -- we can deal with this matter at a subsequent

 7    hearing.

 8            As far as the documents are concerned, we have consulted our files

 9    and we have noticed that some documents are missing either the English

10    translations or B/C/S translations.  I've asked the Chamber's legal

11    officer to consult the parties in order to find a solution to some of

12    these outstanding matters but this is not a serious problem.

13            In addition, tomorrow or the day after, we will be rendering our

14    decision on taking judicial notice.  The decision has been taken.  We are

15    just completing it, but we have taken a decision on the motion filed a

16    while ago and tomorrow or the day after, at the latest, we will inform you

17    of it.

18            We will now go into closed session -- into private session, it's

19    not necessary to lower the blinds as we are in courtroom number 2.  We are

20    in private session now.

21                          [Private session]

22  (redacted)

23  (redacted)

24  (redacted)

25  (redacted)

Page 18169











11    Page 18169 redacted. Private session.















Page 18170

 1  (redacted)

 2  (redacted)

 3  (redacted)

 4  (redacted)

 5  (redacted)

 6                          [Open session]

 7            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are back in open session,

 8    Mr. President.

 9            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  Now that we are in

10    open session, there's one last issue that I would like to raise.  We've

11    been informed that following an agreement between the parties, there will

12    be three statements that were taken in accordance with American

13    stipulation procedure.  This concerns three witnesses and without

14    referring to their names, could Defence counsel confirm that an agreement

15    has been reached with the Prosecution and that in the course of the week,

16    we will be provided with these statements.

17            Mr. Bourgon

18            MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  Could we

19    go into private session, please.

20            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let's go back into private

21    session.

22                          [Private session]

23  (redacted)

24  (redacted)

25  (redacted)

Page 18171











11    Pages 18171-18175 redacted. Private session.















Page 18176

 1  (redacted)

 2  (redacted)

 3  (redacted)

 4  (redacted)

 5  (redacted)

 6  (redacted)

 7  (redacted)

 8  (redacted)

 9  (redacted)

10  (redacted)

11  (redacted)

12  (redacted)

13                          [Open session]

14            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session.

15            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So now I'll give the floor to

16    the Defence in order for them to ...

17                          [Trial Chamber confers]

18            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] For their official statement.

19            MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, sir.  Before closing on

20    this, we have one request that we have already discussed and it has been

21    submitted recently and it is about the final list of the Defence documents

22    for the accused, General Hadzihasanovic.

23            As the Trial Chamber is well aware, since the very start, we have

24    had a list of documents for the Defence.  It has developed over time and

25    today, we've got the final list.  As it is indicated in our request, this

Page 18177

 1    final list includes several pieces of information, that is to say,

 2    references for identification purposes to everything that has already been

 3    admitted into evidence and everything that has already been admitted into

 4    evidence as a DH number and also, in those cases where the translations

 5    have already been submitted, and also the ones that are still missing.

 6            To this day, if I remember correctly, we are missing exactly 81

 7    documents which still need to be translated.  Since we would like to close

 8    our case today, what we are asking now is for the Defence to be authorised

 9    to close the case today whilst reserving the right, if of course the

10    Prosecution were to object, to still submit the documents outstanding.  So

11    let me just reiterate that these are secondary documents, as it were,

12    documents that we would like to use without using the witnesses.  So they

13    are related to documents that have already been used with witnesses and

14    therefore we can say that they do have some probative value and they

15    simply confirm what is already included in the documents which have

16    already been accepted into evidence.

17            For this reason, if the Trial Chamber agrees, we could close our

18    case today and reserve the right to submit those arguments or rather the

19    extra information indicated in this list at a later stage.

20            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Well, we have to turn to

21    Mr. Mundis here.  The Defence is asking to be authorised to close the case

22    today whilst reserving the right to ask us to approve the request they're

23    making today; that is to say, they've got this list of documents and

24    they're still missing some 80-odd translations and certain documents have

25    not been introduced or used with witnesses but they are related to these

Page 18178

 1    witness accounts but we need you to say that you don't object to that.

 2            Now, I would like to invite Mr. Mundis whether you can go along

 3    with this proposal made by the Defence since -- or do you still need to

 4    talk about it?  Thank you.

 5            MR. MUNDIS:  Mr. President, in principle, we have no objection; of

 6    course, we would need to see the documents prior to having any final

 7    position with respect to the documents, but as of this point in time, we

 8    certainly have no objection to this type of procedure being followed.

 9            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Right, then.  We have taken note

10    of that.  The Prosecution will of course study the document that you've

11    drafted today and then we shall talk about it again.

12            MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, sir.  I would just like

13    to specify a couple of points with regard to that motion.  We would

14    suggest for the Prosecution to have a fortnight within which to respond;

15    that is to say, once all the translations have been submitted.  We would

16    also like to stress, Mr. President, that some of these documents could be

17    used by the Defence of General Hadzihasanovic in the case of

18    cross-examination of the second accused.  And we're also asking for all

19    these documents -- I mean, they have been used by joint military experts

20    of both accused in order to prepare both their expert witness reports as

21    well as to prepare for testimony.

22            And also, all the documents there would make it easier for the

23    Trial Chamber to have a full overview of all the documents included in

24    this dossier and the relevant numbers, and that's something that we hope

25    to -- and we are going to complete as soon as possible with the legal

Page 18179

 1    officer here.

 2            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.  So you said a

 3    fortnight, but the last document will be translated when?  If it's within

 4    this week, it's okay, but if it's in a month, it is going to be a month

 5    plus two weeks.  So as of when?

 6            MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] According to the Tribunal services,

 7    the last translation should be submitted in the third week of April.  We

 8    don't have a specific date yet but I believe that it will be not next week

 9    but I believe the week after that.  I don't have the specific date,

10    though.  The only information I have at the moment is that the

11    translations will be available in the third week of April.

12            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Okay.  Thank you.

13            Mr. Mundis, according to what you've gathered, all the documents

14    will have been translated by the third week of April and as of then,

15    you'll have a fortnight which will take us to mid-May, sometimes around

16    the 15th of May.  Would that date, the 15th of May be convenient to the

17    Prosecution in order for you to study all these documents?

18            MR. MUNDIS:  Mr. President, he we would not anticipate any problem

19    with meeting that deadline if our learned colleagues could perhaps

20    indicate either on the record or by a written notification that all of the

21    materials have in fact been translated and we of course receive copies of

22    all of that material, we will endeavour to review it as quickly as

23    possible.  I certainly don't think there will be any problem with a

24    deadline of 15 May, assuming that we have them by the third week or the

25    end of the third week of April.  That certainly wouldn't be a problem.

Page 18180

 1            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well then.

 2            Mr. Bourgon, the Prosecution wishes to receive the documents as

 3    soon as possible and then, of course, the 15th of May is the deadline for

 4    their point of view.  So as of the 15th of May, we will give our opinion

 5    or, rather, our approval if there are no other problems.

 6            MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President, we fully

 7    agree with the Prosecution.  As soon as the last one of the 81 missing

 8    documents in terms of translations is submitted, we shall immediately

 9    notify them officially in order to confirm that the dossier has been

10    completed.

11            Mr. President, you have to take account of the fact that all the

12    documents that have been submitted today together with our final list are

13    already available to the Prosecution.  What's currently missing are the 81

14    translations which are still missing.  But as to everything else, they

15    already have all the documents available.

16            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Except that the Trial Chamber

17    doesn't have all those documents but we'll have them soon.  So the Trial

18    Chamber accepts -- takes note of the fact that they can close the case

19    today but of course with the proviso that we still get those documents

20    according to the modalities that we have heard about over the past few

21    minutes.

22            MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, Your Honours, for

23    the sake of the transcript, I would just like to say that with regard to

24    the Defence of General Hadzihasanovic, I would just like to state once

25    again formally that we have closed our case.  Thank you.

Page 18181

 1            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  Now we shall move on

 2    to the next stage and it was my understanding that there would be an

 3    opening statement now.

 4            So we are in open session, so in open session.

 5                          [Mr. Kubura's Defence opening statement]

 6            MR. DIXON:  Thank you, Your Honours.  There will be an opening

 7    statement now on behalf of Mr. Kubura, and he will also use this

 8    opportunity to address Your Honours pursuant to Rule 84 bis after I've

 9    completed my opening statement.

10            It will last just over an hour and I would propose that I commence

11    now and find an appropriate place to break for the technical break and

12    then continue thereafter to be followed then by Mr. Kubura's short

13    statement to Your Honours.

14            As Your Honours will be aware, it is always said of lengthy

15    criminal trials like the one that we have been involved in for some 206

16    days now, that no matter how complex the case might first appear, the path

17    to discovering the truth is invariably one which depends on a very small

18    number of crucial and narrow factual questions, Your Honours.  Questions

19    which we say that mostly always have simple answers and complicated

20    answers, once all the irrelevant material has been stripped away.

21            Mr. Kubura's Defence is very clear and to the point.  This is how

22    it happened, we say.  For the killings in Miletici and Maline, as they are

23    alleged in the indictment, no members or units of the 7th Brigade were

24    there at the relevant time - that being 24th April and 6 June 1993,

25    respectively; I apologise, 8 June, 1993 - let alone involved in the

Page 18182

 1    commission of any crimes on these days.

 2            For the music school and Motel Sretno, in our submission, there's

 3    not a shred of evidence that Mr. Kubura knew or had reason to know about

 4    any particular beatings that occurred at these places.  On the contrary,

 5    there are reasons why he would not have had information at his disposal.

 6            For the alleged destruction and looting in the Ovnak area and

 7    Vares, in some instances, there is simply no evidence presented by the

 8    Prosecution of destruction.  And in others, no evidence of the identity of

 9    the perpetrators.  In circumstances where various brigades and units were

10    involved in the military operations, civilians were on the loose, and many

11    of the alleged crimes were committed when units of the 7th Brigade were no

12    longer even present in the area.

13            Finally, throughout all of these alleged incidents, Mr. Kubura was

14    only appointed as the commander of the 7th Brigade from the 6th August

15    1993.

16            A simple defence, Your Honours, but not a simplistic one.  There

17    is a big difference, in our submission.  When the historical expert,

18    Professor Cihic [phoen] was asked by the Prosecution in cross-examination,

19    and I quote here, it was Ms. Henry-Benjamin who asked the question.  These

20    were her words, "So then would I be correct in assuming or saying that the

21    7th Brigade accommodated the Muslim race so that your foreigners, who

22    might have been Muslims, they automatically would have gone to the 7th

23    Brigade; am I correct?"  His answer was, "I think that would be a

24    simplistic interpretation."

25            In our view, simplistic here, Your Honours, means naive, one

Page 18183

 1    dimensional, and in our submission that is an apt description of the whole

 2    of the Prosecution's case against our client.  I say this with the

 3    greatest respect to my colleagues from the Office of the Prosecutor who we

 4    have worked with and cooperated with the best and most professional of

 5    spirits throughout this case.  But they have simply got it wrong.  Their

 6    case oversimplifies matters and relies on sweeping generalisations without

 7    any hard evidence to back-up those assertions.  There are too many leaps

 8    too far, in our submission.

 9            To illustrate my point, Your Honours, at the heart of this case,

10    and for which it will always be remembered in the records of international

11    criminal law, is the presence of foreign fighters, Mujahedin.  Who is

12    criminally responsible for their actions is an ultimate issue in this

13    case.

14            A simplistic proposition by the Prosecution by way of example has

15    been that MOS, the Muslim forces that which you have heard about, was

16    formed in 1992 and it included foreigners who had arrived in Central

17    Bosnia.  The Prosecution then go on to say that the MOS became the 7th

18    Brigade wholesale.  They said this in their 98 bis submission and Mr.

19    Mundis said this in oral argument, and I quote his words directly; he

20    said, "Our case has been one, and we explained this in our 98 bis

21    submission, that the Travnik Muslim forces evolved into the 7th Muslim

22    Mountain Brigade."  He said that on the 24th of October, 2004.

23            And the Prosecution then go on to say Mr. Kubura must have

24    effectively controlled foreign fighters including those who allegedly

25    committed the offences in late April and early June 1993.  But they don't

Page 18184

 1    finish there.  They take it further to say, well suddenly in August, 1993,

 2    the Mujahedin were moved, the Prosecution say, into a new unit called the

 3    El Mujahed Unit.

 4            Now, in our submission, Your Honours, such a theory is both

 5    riddled with assertions that have absolutely no factual basis on the

 6    evidence we have heard.  For instance, there is no evidence that all or

 7    any foreigners were incorporated into the MOS.  There's no evidence that

 8    the MOS was transformed into the 7th Brigade.  As an aside, Mr. Kubura was

 9    never even a member of the MOS.  And there's also no evidence that later

10    any foreigners were moved from the 7th Brigade into the El Mujahed unit.

11    This theory, in our view, is riddled with leaps of logic that can never be

12    used to prove criminal responsibility beyond reasonable doubt.

13            For instance, why would there be any need to form an El Mujahed

14    unit to accommodate foreigners if they were already in the army and neatly

15    all under the control of the 7th Brigade of the 3rd Corps?  Has the

16    Prosecution come up with an answer to that question?  No, we say.

17            But what is the Prosecution's case?  It has never been clear from

18    day one until today or ever been stated in our view with any certainty or

19    confidence by the Prosecution.  They have a fundamental problem at the

20    core of their case against Mr. Kubura.  We say they cannot establish any

21    connection between the 7th Brigade and the Mujahedin for the offences in

22    Miletici and Maline.  The Prosecution has tried four times to clarify the

23    issue and come up with no less than four different stories and I'll go

24    through each of those for Your Honours.

25            The first started way back in July 2001, the original indictment

Page 18185












12   Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13   English transcripts.













Page 18186

 1    where, in paragraph 62, the Prosecution said that and I quote from the

 2    indictment, "With the creation of the ABiH 3rd Corps area of command, the

 3    Mujahedin were attached to and subordinated to the 7th Muslim Mountain

 4    Brigade.  Subsequently, the Mujahedin were heavily involved in combat

 5    activities with the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade.  As principally an

 6    offensive unit, the Mujahedin frequently spearheaded operations."  That

 7    means in our view, all Mujahedin, the Prosecution were saying, were

 8    actually in the 7th Brigade.

 9            In the rest of the indictment, they said that the 306th Brigade

10    and the 7th Brigade attacked Miletici and Maline after which the crimes

11    were committed.

12            We then move on to January 2002, the second indictment.  This

13    indictment was an amendment of the first because we, as the Defence, had

14    challenged the form of the indictment.  We'd argued that it was imprecise,

15    that the identity of the perpetrators was not clear, and who they were

16    subordinated, which particular brigades, if any, was not made clear.  What

17    the Prosecution then did in response, paragraph 25 of the second

18    indictment was they included the word "predominantly."  They said that the

19    Mujahedin were predominantly incorporated into the 7th Muslim Mountain

20    Brigade.

21            We then come to the third indictment which was the indictment

22    before Your Honours for the trial, and we see two things.  Firstly, the

23    word "predominantly" is now removed.  And secondly, the "the" which I

24    referred to earlier on, "the Mujahedin" is also removed.  So in paragraph

25    19, all it says now is that Mujahedin were incorporated and subordinated

Page 18187

 1    in the 7th Brigade.  There is no indication which, whether it is some or

 2    all.

 3            The Prosecution has kept it vague, deliberately, we say, because

 4    they don't know what their case is.

 5            Also in the rest of the indictment, they continued with the

 6    allegation that the 306th and the 7th Brigade attacked Miletici and Maline

 7    after which the crimes were committed.  That's paragraph 39.

 8            The fourth version, Your Honours, came out with the indictment of

 9    Mr. Rasim Delic, the indictment of 15 February, 2005.  In paragraph 13 of

10    that indictment, the Prosecution now allege the following:  "That after

11    its formation on 19 November 1992, the 7th Brigade incorporated Mujahedin

12    into its structure as did other units of the ABiH 3rd Corps and the

13    paragraph continues, "the Mujahedin were involved in combat activities of

14    units of the ABiH 3rd Corps including the 7th Brigade and frequently

15    spearheaded April 3rd corps combat operations."  There are two points that

16    arise.  Here we see for the first time the OTP has alleged that the

17    Mujahedin were in other units and involved in combat activities of units

18    of the 3rd corps.  Secondly, they now allege that Mujahedin spearheaded

19    operations not of the 7th Brigade any longer, as they had said in all the

20    other indictments, but just generally of the 3rd Corps.

21            Moving on then to the alleged killings in Miletici and Maline.

22    Paragraphs 25 and 25 of the Delic indictment are relevant, and I have a

23    copy of that indictment here, Your Honours.  And I would ask that it be

24    put on the ELMO at those paragraphs, 24 and 25, so one can appreciate the

25    changes that have been made.

Page 18188

 1            Starting with paragraph 24, which is just on the previous page,

 2    this regards the alleged killings in Maline.  I will read the paragraph,

 3    Your Honours.  "On 8 June 1993, the day that Rasim Delic assumed the post

 4    of commander of the Main Staff units of the ABiH 3rd Corps, including the

 5    306th Mountain Brigade, the 7th Muslim Brigade, and the Mujahedin,

 6    launched an attack on the village of Maline in Travnik municipality."

 7            Pausing there, we see here for the first time the Prosecution now

 8    alleging that not only was it the 306th and the 7th but also the Mujahedin

 9    listed as a separate entity in the indictment.

10            "Following the HVO surrender, more than 200 Bosnian Croat

11    civilians and HVO soldiers were captured and ordered by the military

12    police of the ABiH 306th Mountain Brigade to march towards Mehurici, a

13    village several kilometres from Maline.  As the this column was

14    approaching the village of Poljanice, several hundred meters from

15    Mehurici, a group of approximately ten Mujahedin and local Bosnian Muslim

16    soldiers approached from the direction of Mehurici and ordered the column

17    to stop."

18            Pausing there, Your Honours, it is significant, we say, that there

19    is no allegation that the 7th Brigade were involved at all with these

20    prisoners and their escort or their kidnapping.  It simply mentioned 10

21    Mujahedin and local Bosnian Muslim soldiers.  We may ask:  Is this change

22    a result of the evidence that has been presented before Your Honours in

23    this trial?

24            Continuing then over the page to paragraph 25, "Shortly

25    thereafter, this group met a smaller group of persons who had also been

Page 18189

 1    captured in Maline and the two groups proceeded towards Maline.  When the

 2    group arrived at the junction that led to Bikosi, they were ordered to

 3    turn towards that village and, after arriving there, they were ordered to

 4    form a line.  The Mujahedin then indiscriminately opened gunfire on the

 5    group, executing some of the survivors of this initial shooting by single

 6    gunshots to the head."

 7            We say, once again, it's significant that it's alleged by the

 8    Prosecution now that Mujahedin, not any brigades of the Bosnian army, not

 9    the 7th Brigade, committed these killings.  It's still not alleged which

10    particular Mujahedin, but the group of Mujahedin is referred to as "the

11    perpetrators."  Is this the result of evidence that has been presented

12    before Your Honours in this case?

13            In essence, we say that the OTP have conceded that the

14    perpetrators were not in the 7th Brigade.  They have accepted in the Delic

15    indictment the case of the Defence.

16            Thank you, Your Honours.  I will not refer any longer to the

17    indictment; it can be taken from the ELMO.

18            Your Honours, before I turn to the counts in the indictment, a

19    word about Mr. Kubura himself and his position in 1993.  As the evidence

20    will show, the narrative Amir Kubura's life at the time war broke out in

21    Bosnia reads like that of so many ordinary persons and soldiers who were

22    caught up in the painful events that were to follow.  Mr. Kubura will tell

23    Your Honours more about his background when he makes his statement.  But

24    in summary, he was with his wife and children in Kosovo at the beginning

25    of 1992.  He was stationed there in a time of peace as an officer of the

Page 18190

 1    JNA.  A young man of 29 years old with a young family, unaware of how

 2    dramatically their lives were about to change.

 3            His late mother and other family members were living in the town

 4    of Kakanj in Bosnia; that's the town of his birth.  He had grown up there,

 5    gone to school there before joining the JNA to undertake his military

 6    training.

 7            As we all began to learn with great trepidation from the media and

 8    on our television sets, in early 1992 the war was spreading from Slovenia

 9    and Croatia into neighbouring Bosnia and Herzegovina.  The horrifying

10    spectre of ethnic cleansing arose for the first time, a new term that had

11    been fashioned to describe the treatment meted out on innocent civilians

12    by advancing Serb forces and paramilitary groupings.

13            When Mr. Kubura heard that fighting was breaking out all over

14    Bosnia and that his home region was now also under threat, he took the

15    hard decision to return to Kakanj in Bosnia to be there for his family, to

16    defend his country.  It was a defining moment for him.  He was out of

17    Bosnia at the time.  He could have left the region like so many other

18    people did but he wanted to be there to return, to serve, to help, to do

19    what he could do.  That was the overriding impulse that drove him.

20            He was not a political man; the evidence will show this.  Not a

21    member of any political party.  Not an outspoken religious person.  He had

22    never been in any trouble before and had never stood out for any reason,

23    good or bad.  He had an uncontroversial background and a reasonably

24    promising career that was on track.  He was a young, typical JNA officer,

25    one of many who had never fought in armed conflict, although trained to,

Page 18191

 1    but never believed that he would.

 2            As a person, he was well liked and popular.  People at work and in

 3    his social life warmed to him easily.  He had that rare quality to be

 4    respected by both friends and foe alike.

 5            Your Honours, at his core, a good man.  I'll say no more about

 6    this, Your Honours; the evidence about him will emerge.  But to pause

 7    there for a moment and ask a question:  Is this why the Mujahedin sought

 8    to assassinate him in the summer of 1993?  Something we have heard about

 9    from the international witnesses and something that is recorded in their

10    reports.  He represented everything that they sought to destroy.  They

11    were waging, as the indictment alleges, a holy war, and people like the I

12    ill-fated victims of the Mujahedin and like Mr. Kubura could be expended

13    in the name of that cause.  It would be a mockery, we say, to suggest that

14    he commanded these people or could have punished them.

15            Mr. Kubura could not be apart from his family, and they

16    accompanied him to Kakanj, arriving there in May of 1992, and he

17    immediately joined the TO in Kakanj.  On 5 September 1992, he was

18    appointed of the deputy commander of the 1st Battalion of the armed forces

19    of Kakanj municipality and was appointed as the commander of this

20    Battalion on 1 December 1992.

21            As Your Honours have heard in the evidence, towards the end of the

22    1992, the corps and the brigades in the Bosnian army were beginning to be

23    established, one such brigade being the 7th Brigade which Your Honours

24    have heard much about already in this trial.  It was formed as part of the

25    3rd Corps by the Supreme Command Staff order dated 19 November 1993.

Page 18192

 1            Mr. Kubura was not involved at all in the formation of this

 2    brigade.  As I've mentioned already, he was a member of the armed forces

 3    of the Kakanj municipality at the time.  He was assigned to the 7th

 4    Brigade by order on 11 December 1992 to the position of assistant chief of

 5    staff for operational and educational affairs.  These allegations

 6    regarding his background are set out in paragraph 6 of the indictment,

 7    Your Honours.  There are some inaccuracies, we say, in those allegations

 8    which should be corrected at the outset.

 9            The first is that by a Supreme Command Staff order, Mr. Kubura was

10    appointed as chief of staff and deputy commander of the 7th Brigade on 12

11    March 1993 and not 1 January 1993 as is stated in the indictment.

12            Your Honours have seen this document when the military expert

13    testified and it will be introduced as evidence during our Defence case.

14            Mr. Koricic was appointed as the brigade commander at the same

15    time.  Thereafter, by a Supreme Command staff order dated 6 August 1993,

16    Mr. Kubura was appointed as the commander of the 7th Brigade.  He did not

17    become the commander on 21 July 1993 as is stated in the indictment.  DK25

18    is the document regarding his appointment on 6 August 1993.

19            Before this date, we say it is for the Prosecution to prove what

20    his position was and over whom he exercised effective control, if any.

21    The indictment alleges from 1 April 1993 he acted as the substitute for

22    Mr. Koricic, and the indictment continues "the then-assigned 7th Brigade

23    commander who was absent during this period."

24            Where is the evidence to support this allegation that Mr. Koricic

25    was absent and that Mr. Kubura became his substitute?

Page 18193

 1            Mr. Mundis said, when cross-examining the expert, that it was a

 2    gap in the expert's report that he could not conclude where Mr. Koricic

 3    was and whether he was still the commander.  We say this is a gap in the

 4    Prosecution's case.

 5            The Prosecution try to fill this gap by saying Mr. Koricic went to

 6    recruit Mujahedins in Croatia.  On the 14th of December last year,

 7    Mr. Mundis said, and I quote his words, "I suggest to you that Mr. Asim

 8    Koricic left Central Bosnia on 31 March 1993 and that he went to Croatia

 9    and was involved in importing foreigners into Central Bosnia and that he

10    did so on behalf of the 3rd Corps."

11            There is not an ounce of evidence to support this sweeping

12    allegation.  Another example, we say, of a leap too far.

13            Rather, the evidence is, and there are four points that I wish to

14    summarise here, firstly, that Mr. Kubura was not the formally appointed

15    commander until 6 August.  There's no official appointment to acting

16    commander or any other position as there ought to have been according to

17    the military regulations.  That's Article 78 which was referred to the

18    military expert.  No one was appointed as chief of staff to replace

19    Mr. Kubura.

20            Secondly, the documents from the 7th Brigade in this case before

21    August 1993 that are signed by the commander were done in the name of Asim

22    Koricic as the commander, even documents in June and July 1993.  Some were

23    signed by Mr. Kubura but some were signed by other persons.  Your Honours

24    will recall the testimony of the military expert:  A commander is a

25    commander wherever he might be.

Page 18194

 1            Thirdly, Mr. Kubura was not the prominent face of the 7th Brigade.

 2    Your Honours will recall that almost all the international witnesses had

 3    never heard about him, never met him, never had any reason to seek him

 4    out.

 5            The 7th Brigade member who testified, Witness BA, even said he

 6    thought Mr. Kubura was in Germany at the time.  You will recall he was one

 7    of the early witnesses called by the Prosecution.

 8            Fourthly, Your Honours will also recall what even Mr. Totic, who

 9    could be regarded as Mr. Kubura's main adversary stated in his testimony,

10    he said, "There were other more influential people in the brigade."  That

11    was on the 23rd of February, 2004.

12            Now, Your Honours, Mr. Kubura is not suggesting for a moment that

13    he did not person form functions in the 7th Brigade or, for that matter,

14    that he was in Germany at the time.  That's not his defence.  He's never

15    challenged his position in the brigade.  But Your Honours must consider,

16    on the evidence presented, what his concrete position as a young officer

17    was before August 1993.  Your Honours must assess what powers, in fact, he

18    possessed and what information in his position he may in reality have been

19    exposed to.  And this should be done against the backdrop, Your Honours,

20    of the well-settled law on the responsibilities of staff officers which

21    was set out in the High Command case, the case tried by the United States

22    military tribunal after the Second World War.

23            I quote a small section from that case which was referred to in

24    the Celebici judgement at paragraph 367.  It reads, "Staff officers are

25    indispensable in the link" -- I will start again, Your Honours.  "Staff

Page 18195

 1    officers are an indispensable link in the chain of the execution of

 2    orders.  Since a chief of staff does not have command authority in the

 3    chain of command, an order over his signature does not have authority for

 4    subordinates in the chain of command.  A failure to properly exercise

 5    command responsibility is not the responsibility of a chief of staff.  In

 6    the absence of participation in criminal orders, or the execution within a

 7    command, a chief of staff does not become criminally responsible for

 8    criminal acts occurring therein.  He has no command authority over

 9    subordinate's units.  All he can do in such cases is call those matters to

10    the attention of his commanding General.  Command authority and

11    responsibility forwards exercise rest definitively upon his commander."

12            Your Honours, in the indictment at paragraphs 36 to 38, the

13    Prosecution set out what they allege Mr. Kubura's powers were.  And in a

14    nutshell, they say at all relevant times by virtue of his position and

15    authority, he commanded all units of the 7th Brigade including those

16    operating detention facilities.  The question must be asked, we say:  Has

17    the Prosecution proved those allegations and that Mr. Kubura acted as the

18    commander or acting commander from 1 April 1993?

19            Where is the evidence that he had de facto control of all

20    commanding officers and troops of the 7th Brigade?  It is correct, as the

21    Prosecution say that in military terms, someone is always in command.  But

22    the question is who and with what powers?

23            What is clear from the evidence is that the 7th Brigade was a

24    manoeuvre unit, one of many in the 3rd Corps which is not unusual.

25    Without a fixed area of responsibility, it was not fully replenished.

Page 18196

 1    Your Honours will recall the report of August 1993 where its manpower

 2    levels were listed at 76 per cent.  The total numbers of the brigade were

 3    roughly 1.400 troops with its members assigned, like all other brigades,

 4    by the municipal defence staff.  People drawn from the surrounding

 5    villages, ordinary people, joining up to defend their towns and their

 6    villages together with refugees.

 7            Looking further about other allegations that are made about the

 8    brigade in the indictment, paragraph 17, Your Honours.  There is, in our

 9    submission, and this will be borne out by the witnesses who are called in

10    our case, that there is no evidence that this unit was required to

11    strictly adhere to Islamic beliefs.  No evidence that recruits had to

12    swear an oath to follow the example of a proper Muslim soldier, as is set

13    out in the instructions to the Muslim fighter.  And no evidence that

14    20.000 copies of this were distributed in the 3rd Corps area of

15    responsibility.  Once again, leaps too far, we say, by the Prosecution.

16            Mr. Kubura was based at the headquarters of the 7th Brigade as its

17    chief of staff but he operated in the field and on the front lines

18    coordinating particular military operations.  Your Honours will hear

19    evidence about this.  His main operations were in Ovnak in May and June of

20    1993 and Vares in October and November 1993, as is evidenced by the

21    documents in this trial.  For example, DK23 and 24, they are the plans and

22    orders relating to the operations of the 7th Brigade immediately after the

23    operation in Ovnak.  They were both signed by Mr. Kubura as chief of staff

24    on 10 and 11 June respectively.

25            It is significant that there are no similar documents for any

Page 18197

 1    operations in Maline and Miletici because the 7th Brigade was not there.

 2            As an aside, Your Honours, I do wish to add that there are other

 3    documents where Mr. Kubura signed as chief of staff during this time, not

 4    as anything else.

 5            On the context of these operations, and I will finish with this

 6    point before continuing after the break, we will not lead evidence about

 7    the context of the operations that occurred.  But there is one point which

 8    must be made at this stage.  It is important to keep some perspective.

 9    The broad context of these alleged offences, which is not set out in the

10    indictment, is in our submission, the ethnic cleansing campaigns conducted

11    by the Bosnian Serb forces under the direction of Belgrade and the HVO

12    with the support from Croatia against the largely Muslim population of

13    Bosnia.  The aim was to gain control of parts of Bosnia and create greater

14    Serbias and greater Croatias respectively.

15            This conclusion has been confirmed in various judgements of the

16    ICTY, including the Kordic judgement, which was not overturned on appeal.

17    And there, the Trial Chamber said that there was overwhelming evidence of

18    a campaign of persecution in 1992 and 1993 aimed at the Bosnian Muslim

19    population.

20            The most important part which I wish to emphasise is that the

21    Trial Chamber held that the Defence case, that's the Defence of

22    Mr. Kordic, "that these events amounted to a civil war in which the

23    Bosnian Croats were on the defensive and themselves subject to persecution

24    is rejected."  That's at paragraph 827 of the Kordic judgement.

25            The Prosecution cannot have it both ways.  They can't say in

Page 18198

 1    Kordic that the HVO were on the offensive, which was accepted by the Trial

 2    Chamber, but then suddenly in our case they are on the defensive.  Of

 3    course, Your Honours, a war crime is a war crime.  It's not a defence to

 4    say the other side was attacking and committing worse crimes.  But we can

 5    also not pretend that this trial is divorced from the position that the

 6    OTP has taken in other cases.  Over and over again, and it's been accepted

 7    by the Trial Chambers, the OTP has stated that the conflicts in Bosnia

 8    were driven by the raw political and territorial ambitions of the

 9    then-leadership of Serbia and Croatia.

10            I will return now to my opening point which is the key factual

11    issues that this case turns on.  Perhaps after the break, Your Honours, I

12    can move to those very specific issues.  Thank you.

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It's now quarter to 4.00.  We'll

14    have a break and we will resume at about ten past 4.00.

15                          --- Recess taken at 3.45 p.m.

16                          --- On resuming at 4.15 p.m.

17            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Dixon, you may proceed.

18            MR. DIXON:  Thank you, Your Honours.

19            In the case of Mr. Kubura, we say the ultimate issue is:  Were any

20    of the perpetrators, Mujahedin or otherwise, of the alleged killings in

21    Miletici and Maline under the effective control of Mr. Kubura in the sense

22    that they were his subordinates with him able to prevent or punish their

23    actions.  That is the key question.  Your Honours have heard all of the

24    evidence, the answer must be "no."  No, because the 7th Brigade was not

25    deployed or present at these places, and no, because the Mujahedin or

Page 18199

 1    their followers who were present in Mehurici, which I referred to as the

 2    nerve centre of the alleged offences, where they were perpetrated from,

 3    none of those persons were in any way linked to the 7th Brigade and for

 4    the purposes of Article 7(3) under the effective control of Mr. Kubura.

 5            As we have said all along, there are only three ways that the

 6    Prosecution can prove Mr. Kubura is liable.  Either they have to show that

 7    members of the 7th Brigade were present and involved in the commission of

 8    those offences on those days.  The answer to that is that there's

 9    absolutely no evidence of presence and perpetration of the offences.

10            So they must move on to the second leg, which is they can try and

11    prove that all the Mujahedin were under the effective control of

12    Mr. Kubura including those stationed in the camp in Mehurici.  The answer

13    to that, Your Honours, is that on their own case, I cited the Delic case

14    earlier on, they can't prove that all Mujahedin were incorporated in the

15    7th Brigade.

16            So they have to move on to the third option which is that they

17    have to show who were the particular individual Mujahedin or people who

18    committed the offences and then show that those people were under the

19    effective control of Mr. Kubura.

20            We say that option can be crossed out as well because the

21    Prosecution have conceded that they cannot identify who the precise

22    perpetrators of the offences were.  They said as much in their 98 bis

23    submission.  They said, "We cannot identify the individual perpetrators

24    with any degree of specificity."

25            And they haven't led any evidence to show who the particular

Page 18200

 1    individuals were.  But let's take it step by step, Your Honours.  Part A

 2    will be:  The 7th Brigade was not present.  And here, I wish to briefly

 3    summarise the main Defence points as they will be confirmed by the

 4    evidence in the case for Mr. Kubura.

 5            Firstly, as we've said on many occasions, the Prosecution's own

 6    expert, General Reinhardt, confirmed, having looked at all the evidence in

 7    the case, there was no evidence of a presence of a 7th Brigade.  That was

 8    confirmed by the Defence military expert as well.

 9            Secondly, the oral evidence confirms exactly the same.  Witness

10    after witness has stated that the 7th Brigade, and in particular they were

11    looking at the 1st Battalion stationed in the town of Travnik, was not in

12    Miletici and Maline.  Your Honours have heard from the commander of the

13    306th Brigade, Mr. Sipic, and the testimony of no less than 16 witnesses

14    from the 306th Brigade, all confirming that the 7th Brigade was not there

15    and involved.

16            If the 1st Battalion was in Mehurici, in our submission there

17    would be no reason for the local commanders like Mr. Sipic to seek to

18    protect the 7th Brigade.  Quite the contrary, in fact.  There are no

19    allegations in any of the 306 documents, in any of the command documents

20    from the 3rd Corps or any of the supreme command documents that the 7th

21    Brigade was involved or responsible in any way.

22            Thirdly, witnesses have confirmed that the 1st Battalion was

23    elsewhere on the relevant dates.  And during the case for Mr. Kubura, we

24    will call witnesses from the 1st Battalion who will state exactly where

25    they were and what they were doing on those days.

Page 18201

 1            Fourthly, as Your Honours will be aware, there is a host of

 2    documentation regarding the activities of the forces on that day.  Many of

 3    them have been shown during the Defence case for Mr. Hadzihasanovic.

 4    Your Honours will recall the document from General Alagic of 8 June 1993,

 5    that's P465, clearly showing that the 7th Brigade was not in Maline on

 6    that day.

 7            Your Honours will also recall the war diaries of the 306th Brigade

 8    and the OG Bosanska Krajina documents which were not introduced by the

 9    Prosecution for the relevant days.  And they match up, they both confirm

10    the 7th Brigade was not involved, and they outline which brigades and

11    units were involved.

12            There are many similar documents which will be shown to our

13    witnesses and they will explain the activities of the 7th Brigade on those

14    days.

15            Fifthly, the lack of presence of the 7th Brigade is confirmed by

16    the reporting about what happened for the incidents in Miletici and

17    Maline.  Your Honours will recall complaints being made, inquiries being

18    made, and then letters being sent from people like Mr. Delalic,

19    Mr. Dugalic, and ultimately Mr. Merdan in November 1993.  None of those

20    documents mention involvement of the 7th Brigade.  All inquiries about

21    what happened were either sent to the OG or to the 306th Brigade.  Nothing

22    was ever sent to the 7th Brigade about these incidents.  And the 7th

23    Brigade was not involved at all in the investigations that properly

24    followed those incidents.

25            Part B, Your Honour, is that there is no link with the Mujahedin

Page 18202

 1    in respect of Miletici and Maline.  In the Prosecution's 98 bis

 2    submission, they alleged that the Mujahedin were deployed including with

 3    the 7th Brigade.  But we say if there is no evidence that the 7th Brigade

 4    was present, it is impossible for the foreigners to have been deployed

 5    with them, as the Prosecution say.  The Prosecution case must become, and

 6    of course it's for them to say this, but it must become, although it might

 7    seem odd, that the Mujahedin in Mehurici were under the effective control

 8    of Mr. Kubura even if no 7th Brigade command or members were present

 9    there.

10            But we return to the original question:  Who were the

11    perpetrators?  If they cannot be identified, how can the Prosecution even

12    begin to try and prove their case, begin to try and prove who was

13    effectively controlled by Mr. Kubura?

14            Your Honours, there are admitted documents, the majority of which

15    were admitted without any witness, purportedly from the 7th Brigade which

16    mentioned foreigners.  Taken at their very highest, the Prosecution could

17    argue that they indicate an association with some foreigners.  But they

18    can't argue with all foreigners, and they cannot use any of those

19    documents to argue a link with the foreigners, particularly those in the

20    camp at Mehurici, and then the particular perpetrators.  We say that only

21    documents concerning the foreigners in Mehurici or those connected with

22    the offences in Miletici and Maline are relevant in respect of the

23    ultimate issue which I outlined earlier for Mr. Kubura.

24            In the event, no witnesses have been called by the OTP on these

25    documents, even though we have contested them.  They had been admitted,

Page 18203

 1    but as Your Honours have stated, weight has not been determined as yet.

 2            The Prosecution cannot expect Mr. Kubura to fill in the gaps

 3    during his case.  We are not obliged to call witnesses in our case to

 4    address documents which have nothing to do with Miletici and Maline.  The

 5    OTP could have called the authors of these documents if they had wanted

 6    to.

 7            Moreover, the documents in this case do not, as the Prosecution

 8    have said on many occasions, speak for themselves.  The documents merely

 9    confirm words on a page but not the truth of their contents.  It's only

10    witnesses that can bring these documents to life and permit Your Honours

11    to assess the probative value.  Otherwise, anybody could write a document

12    claiming that they are innocent and submit it for the truth of its

13    contents and say, "Well, the document speaks for itself."

14            In summary, Your Honours, the Prosecution's evidence simply does

15    not prove that the Mujahedin perpetrators were with the 7th Brigade and

16    under the effective control of Mr. Kubura.  Not a single witness has said

17    that and not a single document states that.  On the contrary, the

18    Prosecution's own military expert, General Reinhardt, stated, and I must

19    stress here, this is not the case of the Defence, but it's what the

20    Prosecution has stated in its case.  He said, "You could not say who from

21    the foreigners may be in the brigade or out of the brigade."  His words

22    were, "It was dubious to me."

23            So on the Prosecution's own case, this is not the Defence case,

24    but on their own case, the perpetrators could have been out.  We say that

25    is enough, in and of itself, to acquit Mr. Kubura.

Page 18204

 1            Even the Prosecution would also have to concede that on the face

 2    of their own indictment, there is a contradiction.  Mr. Kubura is not

 3    charged for offences in Guca Gora and Travnik where the indictment alleges

 4    the Mujahedin were present.  How do they make such a distinction?

 5            Also, the Prosecution didn't initially charge Mr. Kubura for the

 6    offences in Miletici.  They only added that after Dusina been removed

 7    following Appeals Chamber's judgement.  And although I don't want to go

 8    into the all the detail, but Your Honours will know that in the

 9    Prosecution pre-trial brief, the Prosecution set out what their evidence

10    was for Miletici when they managed to get the charge added.  That was at

11    paragraphs 53 to 56.  And having reviewed the paragraphs and that evidence

12    again before today the evidence is simply not there.  They mention a

13    resubordination order which has nothing to do with Miletici and they

14    mention two witnesses who talk about the 7th Brigade arriving in Miletici.

15    But when one examines the testimony of those witnesses, they never said

16    anything about the 7th Brigade coming to Miletici on 24 April or before.

17            In our submission, very clear and firm links must be made between

18    the alleged perpetrator and Mr. Kubura if the Prosecution is going to seek

19    to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  The Prosecution knows this and

20    they have been attempting to make such links.  I wish now to briefly

21    mention only a few of those attempt links to show how, in our Defence

22    case, it will be made clear that those links are not there.  In truth they

23    do not exist.

24            Firstly there is at Turkish guerilla.  This matter in our

25    submission has been dealt with already.  There is testimony that makes it

Page 18205

 1    quite clear that this group was not part of the 7th Brigade.  No documents

 2    mention the 7th Brigade in relation to the Turkish guerilla.  Our

 3    witnesses will confirm exactly that.

 4            In any event, there's no connection between the Turkish guerilla

 5    and the offences in Miletici and Maline.

 6            Secondly, the Prosecution has raised the question which Mr. Kubura

 7    asked about the Mujahedin at the meeting of the 3rd Corps on the 20th of

 8    June 1993.  That was P429.  It was recorded in those minutes that

 9    apparently he asked, "Will the Mujahedin continue to be engaged?"  There

10    was a translation problem but that was clarified.  "Will they go to Mount

11    Igman or will they continue to conduct combat operations in the zone of

12    operations of the 3rd Corps?"

13            However, in our submission, it would be reasonable to ask such a

14    question at a meeting on the 23rd of June when General Delic's earlier

15    order of 16 June 1993 was for the Mujahedin to be sent to Igman.  That's

16    P270.  And there is testimony before Your Honours that all officers would

17    have known about that order.

18            In this context, the Prosecution might seek to raise document

19    P616, another translation problem about Arabs wanting to go to Igman.  But

20    this is much later.  This is 27 August 1993.  The document has nothing to

21    do with Mr. Kubura and nothing to do with Miletici or Maline.

22            Thirdly, there's the allegation that members of the 7th Brigade

23    were involved in a demining operation on 24 May 1993 in the Bila valley.

24    That's Mr. Sipic's report DH1053 and a new document P951.  This

25    information, on the face of the document, originally came from the HVO,

Page 18206

 1    and the involvement of members of the 7th Brigade in such an operation was

 2    not confirmed in the testimony of the witnesses.

 3            In any event, how does this demining operation show that the 7th

 4    Brigade was involved in any operations in Miletici and Maline bearing in

 5    mind that all witnesses of the 306th Brigade confirmed that the 7th

 6    Brigade was not involved.

 7            Fourthly, there are the documents that purport to mention the 7th

 8    Brigade in relation to Mehurici.  The Prosecution has sought to mention

 9    many of these documents.  Your Honours have also raised questions about

10    these documents, and we said we will return to our case which we will do.

11            For instance, there's document P481, an unsigned document with no

12    name talking about the resubordination of 20 troops from the Mehurici

13    sector.  Your Honours heard the testimony of the witness that it was not

14    possible to resubordinate in this fashion, and Your Honours will hear

15    further evidence about that alleged document.

16            Then there's document P663 of 5 May 1993 which talked about the

17    need to resolve the status of the Mujahedin and members of the 17th or 7th

18    Muslim Brigade quartered in Mehurici.  But Mr. Sipic clarified this matter

19    in we say, in his testimony.  He said he was referring to renegade

20    individuals that had left the 7th Brigade and that their status needed to

21    be resolved.

22            Also, Your Honours have heard the evidence and this will be

23    confirmed that the 1st Battalion of the 7th Brigade was in the town of

24    Mehurici -- in the town of Travnik.  That's where they were based, not in

25    Mehurici.  This will be confirmed by our witnesses and they will address

Page 18207

 1    other documents P471 and P474, a document which the first witness will be

 2    called will address when he gives his testimony before Your Honours.

 3            On this point, in our submission, it is significant, but in the

 4    original indictment, the one that went right back to 2001, the OTP had

 5    charged Mr. Kubura for the incidents in the Mehurici elementary school and

 6    the blacksmith shop.  But when we challenged these charges on the basis

 7    that it was not alleged in the indictment that the 7th Brigade was there,

 8    being only alleged that the Mujahedin were there, the Prosecution withdrew

 9    those charges.  And in the second indictment and in the third indictment,

10    he is not charged for the incidents in the Mehurici elementary school and

11    the blacksmith shop.  That's at paragraph 20 of the original indictment.

12            If the 7th Brigade was in Mehurici, why did the Prosecution

13    withdraw those charges?

14            This leads me on to the fifth attempted link and that is

15    Mr. Ramo Durmis.  In the words of Mr. Waespi he was described as a

16    "prominent figure," but by Mr. Durmis's own account, he left the 7th

17    Brigade April 1993, in other words before Miletici and Maline.  That's

18    document P941 a document the Prosecution has been seeking to introduce.

19    We do not disagree with the Prosecution's own document but, moreover, our

20    witnesses from the 7th Brigade will state that Mr. Durmis left the brigade

21    earlier - April, 1993 - after the operations in Visoko in December 1992.

22            The citation that has been referred to, that's P727 where

23    Mr. Durmis's name has been mentioned will, on the testimony, be shown to

24    relate to events in 1992, those in Visoko.  The award was given to the 1st

25    Battalion, not to Mr. Durmis himself, and it related to events in 1992.

Page 18208












12   Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13   English transcripts.













Page 18209

 1            Lastly, to the extent that the Prosecution might seek to link him

 2    with an interview conducted by Witness ZP, that's document P598, the

 3    person who was interviewed never said he was with the 7th Brigade when he

 4    participated in the kidnappings of Mr. Totic and when he was involved, as

 5    he says, in Miletici.  We will also invite Your Honours to look at what

 6    Witness ZP said about the person he interviewed, that he was a complete

 7    fool and he did not take him seriously at all.

 8            The last attempted link which relates to the subject of names is

 9    that those names mentioned in the HVO document, that's P561 about the

10    people involved in Miletici, none of them were ever members of the 7th

11    Brigade and no other names that have been mentioned in the evidence,

12    whether they are local or foreign were members of the 7th Brigade.

13            In our submission, each and every attempt to make a link fails

14    because, in truth, there is no such link.

15            Your Honours, moving now on to the rest of the indictment against

16    Mr. Kubura, in many ways an indictment within an indictment which does not

17    concern the Mujahedin.  Count 4, the Zenica music school.  The Defence

18    does not dispute that some beatings occurred at the music school; that has

19    been clear from the beginning.  But paragraph 41 (A) of the indictment

20    says persons that were kept there from 1 April to at least January 1994;

21    however, according to witness testimony, it was months earlier that people

22    were no longer detained there and the main incidents really occurred in

23    May and June of 1993.  However, the key issue here is where is the

24    evidence that Mr. Kubura knew or had reason to know about these particular

25    incidents?   No evidence is identified in the Prosecution pre-trial brief

Page 18210

 1    or the 98 bis submission other than to say that the offences were

 2    notorious and that rumours were rife.  But not a single report send or

 3    received by Mr. Kubura, not a single meeting on the matter, not a single

 4    complaint made to Mr. Kubura, not a single visit, indeed, not a single

 5    reference to him in respect of the music school.

 6            Mr. Merdan and Mr. Dugalic both visited the music school and found

 7    nothing to report.  As the superiors of Mr. Kubura, if they had no reason

 8    to act, how could he be expected to do more?  Neither of them consults

 9    Mr. Kubura about the music school.  Was this because he was not regarded

10    as the commander at the time in charge, bearing in mind when the alleged

11    incidents occurred.

12            In any event, in our submission, general rumours are not enough.

13    There must be evidence that Mr. Kubura had some information that crimes

14    were suspected.  According to the Blaskic Appeals Chamber decision, that

15    is the standard.  It is necessary for the Prosecution to introduce

16    evidence of information being available to Mr. Kubura that would put him

17    on notice of offences committed by persons in the music school.  There's

18    no such evidence in this case.

19            In addition, the evidence has confirmed that if there were any

20    reports of beatings, they would have passed through the security organs of

21    the brigade directly to the 3rd Corps command security organs.  That is

22    the usual chain of command for security matters regarding prisoners held

23    by the military police; in other words, not through the brigade command.

24            Such reports may well not have been made at all.  As the evidence

25    suggests that subordinates had every motivation to hide from the command

Page 18211

 1    what they were up to.  Beating persons for personal revenge,

 2    gratification, exchanges of family, and financial gain.  Of course once

 3    the evidence emerges of suspected crimes, the command must act swiftly and

 4    decisively.  Proceedings have now been brought against those responsible

 5    for the music school, including Mr. Jasmin Isic [phoen].  The Prosecution

 6    will say there has been too much of a delay but in our submission, Article

 7    7(3) does not place a time limit on the punishment process.  The

 8    perpetrators are being proceeded against.

 9            Count 4, Motel Sretno.  As alleged in the indictment, the

10    incidents there occurred over a very limited period of time from 18 May to

11    21 June.  In other words, before 6 August 1993.  The witnesses all

12    testified that they were released within 24 hours of having been detained

13    on 18 May 1993.  There is no evidence that Mr. Kubura was ever informed

14    about these incidents or was at the motel or in the vicinity at the

15    material time.  No evidence that he received any reports or complaints

16    about these beatings.  Once again, there can be no basis for concluding

17    that he knew or had any reason to know about these beatings.

18            Lastly, Counts 5 and 6, destruction and looting.  This is for the

19    Ovnak area and Vares, two operations that Mr. Kubura was involved in.

20    Significantly, though, no evidence that Mujahedin were involved in these

21    operations.  Once again, undermining the Prosecution position that the 7th

22    Brigade acted with the Mujahedin in spearheading crucial operations.

23    Ovnak and Vares were one of the most significant operations conducted

24    during that time period.

25            If the Mujahedin were spearheading, well why isn't the evidence

Page 18212

 1    that they were there in those operations?

 2            Firstly, on the crime base there is no dispute and there never has

 3    been that some lootings occurred but the issue is timing.  When did they

 4    occur and who were the perpetrators?  In respect of the alleged

 5    destruction, in Vares, there is no evidence of such destruction.

 6    Your Honours heard about cross-firing into buildings when troops arrived,

 7    but this is a standard military procedure for first entering a defended

 8    town and can hardly be characterised as devastation of a town not

 9    justified by military necessity.  Destruction must be on a large scale in

10    order to qualify as a crime under the jurisdiction of the ICTY.

11            For the destruction in Ovnak, the issue, again, is when and by

12    whom?  The evidence is so far that either there was no destruction

13    observed by the Prosecution witnesses in June 1993, or that the damage was

14    caused by legitimate military action, and there is evidence that

15    destruction took place after June 1993.  The operations involved many

16    brigades, many units, and civilians were also present at the time.

17    Mr. Kubura can only be held responsible for the acts of his subordinates

18    and not those of the members of other brigades or units or civilians.

19            In respect of the lootings, our witnesses will confirm that the

20    7th Brigade withdrew on each occasion, as a manoeuvre unit does,

21    immediately after the military operations concluded and before any looting

22    commenced.  The only evidence that could be used against the 7th Brigade

23    is in respect of Vares where, to the extent that anyone was recognised as

24    a member of the brigade, they were seen taking bread, and on one occasion,

25    women's shoes.  These are minor matters, Your Honour, which simply do not

Page 18213

 1    rise to the level of seriousness required by this Tribunal.

 2            Likewise in Ovnak, no evidence that the 7th Brigade committed

 3    these offences.  Many brigades were present, police forces, and civilians

 4    who observed looting as well, and evidence that looting occurred after

 5    June 1993, the time period in the indictment.

 6            Turning to my concluding remarks, Your Honour, the cornerstone of

 7    the Tribunal's procedure, irrespective of what national jurisdiction we

 8    come from, is that the Prosecution bear the burden of proving the case.

 9    That is provided for in Rule 87.  The standard is beyond reasonable doubt.

10    Anything less obliges the triers of fact to acquit and the accused is

11    always entitled to the benefit of the doubt as to whether the offence has

12    been proved or not.  This has been applied in many judgements.

13            The bottom line for us is that the Prosecution have not proved

14    their case beyond a reasonable doubt, and where there is doubt, the

15    Chamber must acquit.  It might seem trite but it is a fundamental

16    obligation in a system of international justice, and one by which the ICTY

17    itself will be judged by history.  It is a principle that was that was

18    strongly underlined by the Celebici Trial Chamber in its judgement which

19    is probably one of the most referred to judgements on the doctrine of

20    command responsibility and I quote from paragraph 377 of that judgement

21    where the Trial Chamber said, "The doctrine of command responsibility is

22    ultimately predicated upon the power of the superior to control the acts

23    of his subordinates.  Great care must be taken lest an injustice be

24    committed in holding individuals responsible for the acts of others in

25    situations where the link of control is absent or too remote."

Page 18214

 1            Your Honours, Mr. Kubura will not testify in his case.  He's not

 2    obliged to and that cannot be held against him.  There is no need to, as

 3    there is no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that links him to any of

 4    the alleged offences.  He has barely even been mentioned throughout this

 5    entire trial.  Some witnesses will be called merely to confirm that the

 6    7th Brigade had nothing to do with the alleged killings and the other

 7    offences.

 8            We will start with Travnik, covering the alleged killings in

 9    Miletici and Maline, and then we will move on to the rest of the

10    indictment.  We will not lead evidence in relation to the context or in

11    relation to the activities of other brigades or of the 3rd Corps and its

12    command.  Our focus will be on the 7th Brigade and the allegations that

13    are made against it in the indictment.

14            At the outset, as I have said, Mr. Kubura will provide a brief

15    statement to Your Honours in terms of Rule 84 bis, with Your Honours to

16    determine the probative value to be given to such a statement.  He simply

17    wishes to make his position quite clear that he had nothing to do with

18    these alleged crimes.

19            I conclude with returning to the Prosecutor's indictment and the

20    fundamental allegation which is set out in paragraph 38.  "At all times

21    relevant to this indictment, Amir Kubura exercised effective control over

22    all his subordinates alleged to have committed crimes."  But which

23    subordinates exactly of Mr. Kubura do the Prosecution say and show in the

24    evidence committed the alleged killings and offences?  All four

25    indictments are silent on that matter.  The evidence is silent, and the

Page 18215

 1    Prosecution is still silent.

 2            As Your Honours have remarked on many occasions, this is an

 3    adversarial truth-seeking exercise.  Have the Prosecution taken us closer

 4    to the truth in the presentation and examination of the evidence?  Yes,

 5    they have, in fact, on the actual evidence.  Leaving aside the comments

 6    and the oversimplifications that they've made, the evidence shows that

 7    Mr. Kubura did not effectively control any Mujahedin perpetrators, and

 8    he's not criminally responsible for any of the offences charged.

 9            Our Defence case will confirm that and we respectively ask

10    Your Honours to confirm that in your judgement.

11            Thank you, Your Honours.

12            With your leave, I would now request that Mr. Kubura be given an

13    opportunity to make his statement and thereafter, we will call the first

14    witness in his Defence case.  I'm grateful for this opportunity.

15            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Dixon.

16            Mr. Kubura, you may stand and pursuant to Rule 84 bis (A) you may

17    make a statement.  I give you the floor now.

18            THE ACCUSED KUBURA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.

19    Your Honours, I will focus on the following.  First, my biography and my

20    background up until the time the indictment was brought.  Secondly, my

21    engagement in the course of the war, and I will focus on the time spent in

22    the 7th Muslim brigade.  I will then deal or, rather, address the

23    allegations in the indictment.

24            I was born on the 4th of March 1964 in Kakanj in Bosnia and

25    Herzegovina.  Having completed primary school, I completed the secondary

Page 18216

 1    military school in Mostar and then the academy for ground forces in

 2    Belgrade.  In 1987, I graduated from the academy and I was promoted to the

 3    rank of second lieutenant.  I was then sent or, rather, appointed to the

 4    duty of a commander of the platoon in Djakovici in Kosovo.  After a year

 5    in the military service, I was promoted to the rank of lieutenant.  Three

 6    years later I was appointed as commander of a border company.

 7            In the first half of 1991 in the territory of the former

 8    Yugoslavia, the military and political situation deteriorated and the

 9    situation came to a climax when the former Yugoslavia broke down and

10    Slovenia declared its independence, which the then-JNA attempted to

11    prevent by using force.  And as a result, the first victims fell.

12    Officers and soldiers in Slovenia, Slovenian officers and soldiers left

13    the JNA and he we drew from Slovenia.

14            In the second half of 1991, the military situation was transferred

15    to Croatia and this caused Croatian officers and soldiers to leave the

16    JNA.  At the end of 1991 and at the beginning of 1992, Macedonians and

17    Bosniaks also started leaving the JNA, and it became evident that the rump

18    Yugoslav Peoples' Army had become an army composed of one ethnic group,

19    composed of only Serbian and Montenegrin soldiers and officers.

20            At the beginning of 1992 I sent a request to my command in

21    Djakovici in which I requested that I leave the JNA because I couldn't see

22    a role for me in that army since it was conducting a war against my people

23    or, rather, against its own people.

24            At the beginning of April 1992, since they did not want to let me

25    leave the JNA, I decided to leave of my own accord and to leave Kosovo and

Page 18217

 1    go to Bosnia and Herzegovina, to my birthplace, which is where my parents,

 2    family and friends lived.  I left together with my wife and my two

 3    children, one of which was 16-months old and the other 3-months old.  I

 4    left Kosovo and I went to Macedonia.  Given the war that was raging in

 5    Croatia, and had only just broken out in Bosnia and Herzegovina, I had to

 6    leave with my family via Macedonia.  I first went from Macedonia to

 7    Bulgaria, then to Romania, then to Hungary, then to Croatia, and only then

 8    to Bosnia and Herzegovina.  I had no contact with my parents and relatives

 9    for over a month as they didn't know where we were nor what had happened

10    to us.  They didn't know whether we were alive.

11            At the beginning of 1992, I went to Kakanj to stay with family

12    members and as of that date I was engaged in the Kakanj Municipality

13    Defence Staff by order of the command of the 3rd Corps.  Dated the 11th of

14    December 1992.  I was appointed as the assistant chief of staff for

15    operations in training in the 7th Muslim Brigade Staff, and at the first

16    meeting -- in the 7th Muslim Brigade, I was called to the first meeting in

17    the 7th Muslim Brigade by the they be command of the 7th Muslim Brigade

18    Karajilic Mahmut [phoen].  This was on the 24th of December 1992.  That's

19    the first time I came to know the command -- the commander of the brigade

20    and the chief of staff of the 7th Muslim Brigade Asim Koricic, who was my

21    immediate superior in the Brigade.

22            They gave me the duty to transfer my duty of the demander of the

23    battalion which I had performed up until that time to my deputy Osman

24    Ibrahim Spahic and by mid-January 1993 I was to report to the 7th Muslim

25    Brigade to take over my duties.  By order of the Supreme Command staff

Page 18218

 1    dated the 12th of March, 1993, I was appointed as the chief of staff of

 2    the 7th Muslim Brigade and the chief of staff of the 7th Muslim Brigade,

 3    the person who had been the chief of staff of the 7th Muslim Brigade up

 4    until that time, Asim Koricic, was appointed to the position of the

 5    brigade commander by order of the Supreme Command Staff dated 6th of

 6    August, 1993.  I was appointed as the commander of the 7th Muslim Brigade

 7    and also an appointment was made ...

 8            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] General, please speak a little

 9    more slowly because the interpreters are finding it difficult to follow

10    you.

11            THE ACCUSED KUBURA: [Interpretation] By an order of the president

12    dated the 16th of March 1994, I was transferred to the Sarajevo 1st Corps

13    as commander of the brigade.  And towards 1995, at the end of 1995, I was

14    transferred to the post of commander of the brigade in Konjic.  It was the

15    end of 1997, I was appointed as the deputy commander of the division in

16    Sarajevo.

17            At the end of the war, when the Dayton agreement had been signed,

18    in -- and the troops were demobilised, and a professional army was formed,

19    which was created in accordance with the NATO standards and in accordance

20    with the programme "equip and train."  The plan equip and train was a plan

21    that NATO officers were in charge of, mainly American officers, and a

22    selection was made of officers who were to be trained and who attended a

23    course.  After this selection had been made, I was sent to attend a course

24    in a school for foreign languages.  I was sent to attend the Staff

25    Officer's College, a course for commanding a brigade, a course for

Page 18219

 1    commanding the corps staff, and, of course, for carrying out combat

 2    operations in a simulation centre.  All of this in accordance with NATO

 3    standards.  At the end of 1999 and the beginning of 2000, in the

 4    federation army, the Bosniak part received the task of performing 5

 5    professional brigades and one brigade in Sarajevo, one in Tuzla, one in

 6    Mostar, one in Bihac, and one in Gorazde.

 7            It was necessary to select five brigade commanders when selecting

 8    these officers.  I was selected as the commander of a professional brigade

 9    located in Sarajevo, and on that occasion I was promoted to the rank of

10    brigadier.

11            At the beginning of 2001, when an indictment was brought against

12    me, I was with my wife and three children in Croatia at the sea.  In 1996,

13    I had a third child.  I was informed over the phone about the indictment,

14    and without giving it any thought, I returned to Sarajevo and reported to

15    the Bosnia and Herzegovinian authorities and placed myself at the disposal

16    of the Tribunal.  I signed a document saying that I would voluntarily

17    surrender to The Hague and as of the 4th of August 2001, I have been in

18    the Detention Unit in Scheveningen.

19            Why have I come here?  For two reasons:  Firstly, because I knew

20    and felt that I was not guilty and that the allegations in the indictment

21    with which I have been charged are erroneous.

22            Secondly, I have absolutely no doubts and I have full confidence

23    in this International Tribunal and in this Trial Chamber, which I believe

24    will realise that the events of which I have been charged with have

25    nothing to do with me.  I will support this claim by referring to some

Page 18220

 1    facts that have recently been discussed and that will be discussed in the

 2    course of my Defence.

 3            Your Honours, I will now address the period relevant to the

 4    charges levelled against me and I will address the counts in the

 5    indictment.  When I first saw the indictment and read through it, when I

 6    read through the charges that concerned Maline and Miletici, I asked my

 7    counsel to tell me where these villages were located and asked him to

 8    bring me a map.  I asked him to do this because I had never heard where --

 9    about the of Miletici and Maline.  I didn't know where they were and the

10    first time I became aware of their existence was when I read the

11    indictment.

12            Your Honours, in the course of this trial and the proceedings that

13    commenced in December of 2003, you have had the occasion to listen to the

14    testimony of many witnesses and to examine numerous documents.  I was

15    certain then and I'm certain now that while I was in the 7th Muslim

16    Brigade, my soldiers and I were never involved in combat activity of any

17    kind in those villages.  It's obvious that these events did take place in

18    Miletici and Maline on the 24th of April and the 8th of June 1993;

19    however, it is also obvious that the 7th Muslim Brigade are -- not a

20    single part of the 7th Muslim Brigade had a task to perform there, nor did

21    the 7th Muslim Brigade participate in combat of any kind in those

22    villages.

23            It is also correct to say that the Prosecution and Defence

24    witnesses have testified here, and at in point in time did they mention

25    that the 7th Muslim Brigade participated in the events in those villages;

Page 18221

 1    on the contrary, they claimed that the 7th Muslim Brigade was not there

 2    and was not involved in combat activity.

 3            It is quite obvious that witnesses, officers, and soldiers have

 4    confirmed this, individuals who weren't members of the 7th Muslim Brigade

 5    but they were from the Bosanska Krajina Operative Group from the 306th,

 6    the 314th, and the 312th Brigade.  And the villages of Miletici and Maline

 7    were located in those zones of responsibility, and they quite clearly

 8    stated who was responsible for those events.

 9            The superior command did not request the 7th Muslim Brigade to

10    submit reports of any kind about the events in Miletici and Maline.  In

11    the HVO reports and ABiH reports, no one mentions the participation of the

12    7th Muslim Brigade in those events, not in any respect.  This is quite

13    understandable.  It wasn't possible to ask the 7th Muslim Brigade to

14    submit a report since the 7th Muslim Brigade did not participate in the

15    events.

16            In the course of the proceedings, it has been established that

17    Mujahedin were responsible for what happened in the villages of Miletici

18    and Maline, and no one established a connection between the 7th Muslim

19    Brigade and these events.  In the course of these proceedings, it has been

20    established that these individuals were not members of the 7th Muslim

21    Brigade, and it has been established that I had no control over the

22    Mujahedin.  No one invited 7th Muslim Brigade officers or myself to

23    negotiate or to discussions concerning a problem of the Mujahedin.  No one

24    asked for a report about the Mujahedin.  Your Honours, you have heard the

25    testimony of witnesses according to which there were problems that they

Page 18222

 1    had caused and you have heard the testimony of witnesses who asked to come

 2    and discuss matters with them.  But no one ever asked me to become

 3    involved in negotiations or discussions with them, and no one ever

 4    provided me with any reports or any information about them.  It's quite

 5    understandable that there is no such correspondence because I can't be

 6    responsible for the acts of individuals who were not members of my unit.

 7            The music school and Sretno hotel.  Your Honours, in the course of

 8    the trial I found out -- became aware that certain events happened at the

 9    school.  I found out about that in the course of testimony of people who

10    for brief periods of time spent time there.  But in the same way when I

11    was a member of the 7th Muslim Brigade, have never known anything or

12    received any information as to what was taking place at music school and

13    Sretno motel.  Everything I knew was that music school was a detention

14    centre and that it was the headquarters of the military police and that

15    the 3rd Battalion was stationed at Motel Sretno.  I have never visited or

16    spent time at the music school and all tasks and duties with respect to

17    music school were carried out by the security services.

18            The Trial so far, the proceedings so far, have indicated that no

19    witness or no piece of evidence ever established a link between myself and

20    the events at music school and Motel Sretno.  Not a single witness had

21    ever heard of me or of ever seen me or mentioned me in their testimony.

22    Witnesses who testified and visited and carried out controls of music

23    school premises, either announced or unannounced, had never contacted me

24    either prior to or after those controls and never mentioned me in any

25    other context.

Page 18223

 1            It is also the case with regard to the representatives of the

 2    international organisations, institutions which were present in Zenica and

 3    visited music school at that time.  Had I known anything at all about the

 4    irregularities and abuse there, it is quite certain that within my power,

 5    I would have introduced the measures and taken steps to make sure that

 6    such things did not happen again, and to punish the perpetrators in the

 7    same way in which I did in all the other cases in the course of my duties.

 8            The same applies to Motel Sretno because at that period of time, I

 9    was involved in combat operations 20 kilometres away from Kakanj.  In this

10    case, too, there's no document, no witness making a reference to me and I

11    was in no way informed or aware of those events.  Susanj, Ovnak,

12    Brajkovici, and Grahovcici.  As to the events at the beginning of June

13    1993 in the area of Ovnak, it is correct that the 2nd and the 3rd

14    Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade did participate within the framework

15    of the tactics group which was set up on the basis of superior command

16    orders with regard to combat activities.  The 7th Muslim Brigade did

17    participate in those combat activities, together with the units of the

18    314th Brigade, the Anti-sabotage Unit of the Municipal Staff Zenica and

19    the Manevar unit.  The tactic group carried out this task on the 9th of

20    June 1993 and already on the 10th and the 11th of June 1993, the 7th

21    Muslim Brigade left the area and went to the area of Kakanj when the --

22    where the HVO offensive had already started.

23            This indicates, in much the same way as the other facts which have

24    been established, that the members of the 7th Muslim Brigade did not

25    participate in looting and the destruction of property in this area, also

Page 18224

 1    because very soon after the end of the operation, we left the area.  So de

 2    facto, the 7th Muslim Brigade would have been unable to do that anyway.

 3            In the same way, Your Honours, if you can just think back of the

 4    statements made by some witnesses who asked to visit the area of Ovnak,

 5    you will see that they never asked for such authorisation from the 7th

 6    Muslim Brigade, that is to say, after the 10th of June, because that

 7    Brigade was not stationed in the area.  We've heard some witnesses talk

 8    about other units having been set up and then they came and were in charge

 9    of the security situation in the area.  But there was no mention of the

10    7th Muslim Brigade Vares.

11            The 7th Muslim Brigade on the basis of the order of the Superior

12    Command was supposed to take part in the liberation of Vares.  In those

13    combat activities, we had units of the 2nd the 3rd Corps and the 6th

14    Corps.  It is undisputable that the units of the 2nd the 3rd and 6th Corps

15    enter the city of the Vares on the 4th of November 1993, and it is also

16    obvious that the members of the 7th Muslim Brigade entered the city of

17    Vares without any combat activity taking place.  The city had already been

18    partially looted and set on fire on the part of the members of the HVO and

19    they -- who had left.

20            I, myself, who at the time was a commander of the 7th Muslim

21    Brigade on the 5th of November 1993 ordered the withdrawal of my own units

22    from Vares, and that order was obeyed.  And on the 6th of November, the

23    unit left Vares and went back to Zenica.  In the same way, I ordered for

24    checkpoints to be set up for control purposes within the framework of an

25    effort, an overall effort aimed at preventing any illegal activities.

Page 18225

 1            The destruction and the looting did not take place at Vares and

 2    especially not on the part of the members of the 7th Muslim Brigade which

 3    left Vares as early as the 6th of November 1993.  Amongst other things,

 4    we've heard earlier on that witnesses saw one soldier coming out with a

 5    pair of shoes out of a shoe shop and somebody else was carrying bread and

 6    chocolates and a witness mentioned that a group of people had been chased

 7    away from a flower warehouse by UN members and they were unable to take

 8    anything, and so on and so forth.

 9            Your Honours, before I conclude, I'd just like to point out a

10    number of facts which have to do with my duties, my establishment duties.

11            On the 12th of March, I was made the chief of staff and on the 6th

12    of August, the Brigade Commander.  Up to that point, I had never received

13    any orders about representing the commander in his absence or any orders

14    to take over the duty aimed at a final solution or until such time as the

15    commander was able to come back.

16            Since I was surprised by the situation, I was basically forced to

17    somehow continue as I was awaiting an order or an appointment of somebody

18    else to this position of commander or awaiting some other order which

19    would refer to myself.

20            Since I had no formal order at that time, I, myself, as the chief

21    of staff of the 7th Muslim Brigade, according to the indictment, was at

22    the same time the deputy commander and the acting commander.  It is

23    obvious that this would run counter to all the rules and it is obvious

24    that I was simply unable to carry out three different duties within the

25    same unit.

Page 18226

 1            Something else that was indicated in the indictment was the date

 2    of the 1st of April which apparently indicated the date as of when I

 3    started acting as a commander.  But it was a haphazardly chosen date.

 4            Your Honours, when, on the 6th of August, 1993, I was made the

 5    commander of this brigade, Mr. Halil Brzina was appointed as my deputy and

 6    Mr. Serif Patkovic was made the chief of staff.  So we have three people

 7    who, on the basis of the same order, were appointed to three different

 8    jobs, which indicates that I could not at the same time be the chief of

 9    staff, the Deputy Commander, and the Acting Commander.

10            So this is legally speaking and practically speaking impossible.

11            Now I come to my conclusion.  Your Honours, on the basis of the

12    proceedings so far, the facts have indicated the following:  One, that the

13    that the 7th Muslim Brigade did not participate in the events that took

14    place at the villages of Miletici and Maline.

15            Two, that I did not know and that I was in no way informed or

16    familiar with the events at music school and Motel Sretno.

17            Three, that the 7th Muslim Brigade did not participate in the

18    destruction and the looting of the following villages:  Susanj, Ovnak,

19    Brajkovici, and Grahovcici, and the city of Vares.

20            And four, the counts in the indictment accusing me of these facts

21    have not been proven with regard to myself.

22            Your Honours, I reported to this court voluntarily in order to

23    prove my innocence on the counts of the indictment.  When there was a

24    meeting with regard to the request for temporary release in December of

25    2001, Judge Schaumburg pointed out to my behaviour and my attitude to the

Page 18227

 1    Tribunal, and set it up as an example.  He asked for my officer's word to

 2    prove that I would come back at the time of the start of the trial.  I

 3    have come back and now I'm giving you my officer's and my word, and my

 4    word as a man, that I'm not guilty.  Let justice prevail.

 5            Your Honours, thank you for your attention.

 6            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then.  You may sit

 7    down, General.  You have just made your statement in line with the

 8    provisions of our Statute.  It is now 5.25 so it is a good time to have a

 9    break now and at the end of the break, we shall hear the witness and then

10    we'll continue until 7.00.  So we'll start again at ten to 6.00.

11                          --- Recess taken at 5.25 p.m.

12                          --- On resuming at 5.53 p.m.

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So we can continue and I'd like

14    to ask the usher to bring the witness in.

15                          [The witness entered court]

16                          WITNESS:  SEMIR TERZIC

17            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, sir.  Let me

18    first of all check that you can hear the translation of what I'm saying in

19    your own language.

20            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do.

21            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Sir, we've asked you to come in

22    somewhat late because we were busy working on other points that we had to

23    deal with prior to your arrival, so we do apologise for the fact that

24    you've had to wait.  Now, we shall first of all listen to your oath --

25    first of all, however, I need you to give me your name and family name and

Page 18228

 1    the place and date of birth.

 2            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Semir Terzic, I was born on the 30th

 3    of November, 1957.

 4            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could you tell us whether you

 5    have a profession or a job at the moment, and if so, which one?

 6            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I work at the defence unit of

 7    Travnik.

 8            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Do you have a rank, are you an

 9    officer or ...

10            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am a professor philosophy and

11    sociology by profession, and I'm a reserve captain.  That's how I left the

12    war, a reserve major, in fact.

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Between 1992 and 1993, at that

14    time, did you have a rank or -- a military job.  If so, which one, and

15    where were you?  Where were you stationed?

16            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In 1992, I was a professor at the

17    grammar school and the nurses school, and that was at the beginning of the

18    war.  And then joined the army and since I was a reserve officer and I had

19    gone to the reserve officer's course at Bilici - I was a reserve captain

20    or a reserve senior official from the former JNA in the reserve forces of

21    the former JNA - I joined the BH army.

22            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you joined the BH army in

23    what specific unit?

24            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Since the beginning of the war, the

25    start of the war had been declared and the municipal staff, we had a

Page 18229

 1    detachment that we had set up, the Muslim forces detachment at Travnik.

 2    That was on the 10th of May, 1992.

 3            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And thereafter?

 4            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When the BH army brigades were set

 5    up, the 17th, somewhere mid-November, the 7th Muslim Brigade.  And on the

 6    14th of February, the 27th Light Muslim Brigade, the liberating brigade

 7    was set up.

 8            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Have you already testified

 9    before this Court or a national court, maybe, with regard to the facts

10    that -- and the events that happened in your country between 1993 and 1994

11    or is this the first time?

12            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm here for the first time.

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I would like you to read the

14    oath.

15            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly swear that I will speak

16    the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

17            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You may sit now.

18            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Before I give the floor to the

20    Defence counsel for General Kubura who is going to ask you some questions,

21    I would just like to provide you some information as to the way in which

22    the hearing is going to proceed.

23            Today, we are starting at around 6.00 p.m., and as I've mentioned

24    earlier, we're going to finish at 7.00 and, unfortunately, you will have

25    to come back tomorrow and tomorrow morning, we'll start at 9.00, 9.00 a.m.

Page 18230

 1    But you won't have to stay here any longer than tomorrow morning so you

 2    can be reassured now.

 3            I would like to ask you to answer the questions that will be put

 4    to you by one of the lawyers whom you have no doubt already had the

 5    opportunity to meet whilst preparing for this.  The lawyers will expect

 6    you to provide detailed answers.  Once all the questions have been asked,

 7    I think the Defence would like to ask questions for about two and a half

 8    hours, maybe it may go beyond that, but once they have exhausted that

 9    period of time, the Prosecution, which is to your right, is going to

10    proceed to what we call cross-examination in the common law.

11            Of course the nature of these questions is going to be quite

12    different because within the framework of cross-examination, you may be

13    asked leading questions and you will be asked to answer by either a yes or

14    a no.  Once the Prosecution says this they've completed their

15    cross-examination, I will once again give the floor to the Defence counsel

16    who will be able to ask you some extra questions which will be related to

17    the questions asked of you by the Prosecution.  And the Judges sitting in

18    front of you may also asks questions at any moment, but, normally, we

19    wait, we prefer to wait for the examination-in-chief and cross-examination

20    to be completed before we ask any questions.

21            Of course this is for the sake of justice that we shall be asking

22    questions, that goes without saying, but also we try to shed some more

23    light on certain answers that you may have already provided in answer to

24    certain questions because we feel that some things may be a bit vague or

25    because we feel that there are certain voids, certain gaps that we need to

Page 18231












12   Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13   English transcripts.













Page 18232

 1    fill.  And it is in such a situation that we decide to ask questions.

 2            But once we have finished with our questions, we once again give

 3    the floor to both the Prosecution and the Defence, and the last word is

 4    for the Defence in order for them to ask you any useful questions that may

 5    follow in response to the questions asked by Judges.  So this is the way

 6    in which we shall work today and tomorrow.

 7            And I would also like to draw your attention to two more points

 8    which may prove important.  You have solemnly declared that you would tell

 9    the truth and you know that perjury is a crime as well and I would just

10    like to remind you of that, and I would like to remind you of another

11    complicated provision which exists at least in our Regulations.  Once a

12    question is asked of a witness if the witness believes that this question

13    may lead to an answer which might be a problem for him and that it might

14    lead to him being accused of some wrongdoing, he may refuse to answer the

15    question and the Trial Chamber may invite the witness to reply anyway but

16    in that case, we may offer immunity to such an incriminating question.  So

17    if there is a difficulty at any point, please don't hesitate to say so.

18            So we are left with one hour now and I'm going to give the floor

19    to the counsel who is going to start with the examination-in-chief.

20            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I

21    would just like to stress, we had a announced that we would need to

22    examine this witness for two and a half hours but I believe it is likely

23    to be shorter since this week we have several other witnesses and we would

24    like to finish on Thursday.  So we'll try to speed things up and finish

25    earlier.

Page 18233

 1                          Examined by Mr. Ibrisimovic:

 2       Q.   Mr. Terzic, let me just warn you about this.  Between my question

 3    and your answer, I would like you to pause for a second for the sake of

 4    the interpreters, to make their job easier.

 5            Mr. Terzic, you have already mentioned that in 1992, you joined

 6    the 7th Muslim Brigade.  Could you tell us when exactly it was and what

 7    time and what were your duties within the 7th Muslim Brigade?

 8       A.   On the occasion the order came from the Supreme Staff the

 9    headquarters of the Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina for the setting up of these

10    brigades, on the 17th of November, either the 16th or the 17th, I don't

11    know.  When the 7th Muslim Brigade was being set up, my unit, my

12    detachment of Muslim forces, a part of it became a part of the 7th Muslim

13    Brigade and I myself as an officer, because I had been a reserve officer

14    from before, and therefore, I was a member of the 7th Muslim Brigade and I

15    was carrying out operative duties.

16       Q.   Can you tell us whether the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim

17    Brigade was set up at the same time in Travnik?

18       A.   The very fact that the Brigade was formed, set up, and it was made

19    up of 3 battalions, at Travnik.  At Zenica and after there was one at

20    Kakanj, so the structure of the brigade is a body with three battalions

21    and the headquarters and the command post was at Zenica and advanced

22    command post was at Travnik.  As all the other brigades, we got tasks

23    depending on our area of responsibility, that is to say, the defence

24    against the Serb and Montenegrin enemies.

25       Q.   You said that it was based on the order of the Supreme Command

Page 18234

 1    staff.  Was the name of the brigade indicated in that order?

 2       A.   The name of the brigade was indicated because when it was set up

 3    on the basis of this order, the name was defined on the basis of this

 4    decision made by the Supreme Command Staff.

 5       Q.   You told us in reply to the President's question that before that,

 6    you were a member of the Muslim forces?

 7       A.   Yes, I was a member of the Muslim detachment at Travnik.

 8            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, since in the

 9    course of our examination-in-chief, we shall be using some documents, I

10    would like for those documents to be shown to the witness by the usher

11    straight away and we have a sufficient number of copies for the Judges and

12    the colleagues as well.

13            If I may, Mr. President, since the witness has just confirmed that

14    he was a member of the Muslim forces, and we've already seen a specific

15    video here, a specific tape here on a number of occasions, I would like

16    for that tape to be shown to the witness.  I had already shown it to the

17    witness before, and I would like him to be able to comment what he is

18    shown and also to comment on the events that took place on that day in

19    August.

20            For the transcript, it's P762.

21                          [Videotape played]

22            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation]

23       Q.   Have you seen the film?  On that day - it says the 21st of August,

24    1992 - were you present on that occasion?

25       A.   Yes.

Page 18235

 1       Q.   Did you recognise yourself on the film?

 2       A.   Yes.

 3       Q.   Could you tell us what was going on on that day?

 4       A.   It was an oath taken by every unit, a traditional one ordered and

 5    prescribed for every single unit of the BH army.  There was the commander

 6    of the unit and Redzic Emir, then we had religious and political leaders

 7    of the municipality of Travnik.

 8       Q.   You mentioned Mr. Redzic.  Did he join in later or did he join the

 9    Muslim Brigade?

10       A.   No.

11       Q.   Thank you very much.

12            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] For the sake of the transcript,

13    Mr. President, it says "Fazlic" [as interpreted] instead of "Redzic,"

14    whereas the witness confirmed that Emir Redzic never joined the 7th Muslim

15    Brigade.

16       Q.   Mr. Terzic, could you answer my question again, please?

17       A.   I think that this is a textbook case of an oath taken by these

18    youths, the Municipal Staff or the ABiH would order them to take such an

19    oath and the political representatives from the municipality of Travnik

20    were present, members of the clergy were present, and naturally officers

21    from this unit and unit members.

22       Q.   With regard to the last question, whether Mr. Redzic joined the

23    7th Muslim Brigade, what was your answer?

24       A.   No, he did not join that brigade.

25       Q.   I would be grateful if you could make a brief pause after my

Page 18236

 1    question for the sake of the transcript and the interpretation.

 2            Could you have a look at the document in the series of documents.

 3    It's document number 2 for the sake of the transcript, this is P695.

 4            Have you found the document?  It's a list of soldiers of the

 5    Travnik Muslim forces.

 6       A.   Yes, I found it.

 7       Q.   As I have already shown you this document, could you tell the

 8    Trial Chamber something about this list of 80 individuals?  All the

 9    soldiers here, did they join the 7th Muslim Brigade or did they join any

10    other units of the ABiH?

11       A.   If you have a good look at this list, you can see that some of

12    them entered the 7th Muslim Brigade whereas the others probably entered

13    the 306th, the 325th, the 17th and some other brigades that existed at

14    that time in that area.  So not everyone in this list joined the 7th

15    Muslim Brigade perhaps because of territorial links or because they wanted

16    to join other units.

17       Q.   Thank you.  Up until when did the Muslim forces referred to here

18    exist?

19       A.   The Muslim forces referred to here existed up until the 16th or

20    perhaps the 17th of November, 1992, and they ceased to exist as of that

21    date.

22       Q.   When the corps was reorganised and brigades were formed, were

23    these forces disbanded or did they continue to exist in the area?

24       A.   When the brigades were formed, they were disbanded.  There was a

25    transformation, brigades were formed.  In accordance with an order from

Page 18237

 1    the Main Staff, these units were disbanded and there was only the 7th

 2    Muslim Brigade.  As far as the Muslim forces are concerned, they ceased to

 3    exist.

 4       Q.   I'd like to go back to the period when you became an officer in

 5    the 7th Muslim Brigade.  Could you explain how men were mobilised, how men

 6    joined the 7th Muslim Brigade?  Could you explain the procedure for it?

 7       A.   The procedure was as follows:  If there was an individual who was

 8    a member of the ever a unit to ceased to exist, they would be -- join the

 9    unit, their files would be included in the files of the 7th Muslim

10    Brigade.  Then everything else was done through the secretariat for

11    Defence.  Naturally, there was a mobilisation, papers were issued, a

12    individual would be referred to a certain unit, but sometimes this was

13    done in a different way.  Sometimes there were requests to be transferred

14    to one unit to another, et cetera.

15       Q.   The procedure -- was the procedure dealt with through the

16    secretariat for national defence at the time?

17       A.   Yes, through the secretariat for national defence.

18       Q.   The secretariat must have had records and had to have records on

19    members of various units and brigades and on the 7th Muslim Brigade

20    members?

21       A.   The duties of the personnel department in each brigade is to

22    inform the secretariats for defence of the records, so they have to inform

23    the secretariats that are responsible for individuals who are members of

24    their units.

25       Q.   Mr. Terzic, have you heard that in the ABiH, other brigades were

Page 18238

 1    formed that were designated as Muslim brigades?

 2       A.   Yes, I've heard about that.  There were a number of brigades that

 3    had been established in Krajina, in Posavina.  There was the 4th Muslim,

 4    for example, in Konjits ^, in Krajina.  I think that was the 5th or 1st

 5    one and there was a unit in the Tuzla canton so the 7th Muslim Brigade was

 6    not the only such example.

 7       Q.   Were members of the 7th Muslim brigade individuals who had to take

 8    an oath?

 9       A.   Yes, all members of the 7th Muslim Brigade if they had already

10    taken an oath didn't have to take the oath again, but if an order had been

11    issued from the command or from units, then naturally, they had to take an

12    oath.

13       Q.   What kind of an oath did they have to take and did it only concern

14    members of the 7th or of all other units of the ABiH?

15       A.   It's an ordinary oath that all members of the ABiH have to take.

16    It's the usual oath they have to take.

17       Q.   Could you please have a look at the following document.  In the

18    bundle of documents it's document number three.  P11 is the number.

19            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, this is a

20    document that we have discussed at length.  It is instructions to the

21    Muslim fighters.  I have the original here.  I've already shown it to the

22    witness, and if my friends from the Prosecution or the Trial Chamber would

23    like to look at the original document, we can provide you with this

24    document.

25            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I haven't seen this before.

Page 18239

 1            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation]

 2       Q.   Have you ever seen this booklet before, Mr. Terzic?

 3       A.   No.

 4       Q.   Have you in any way ever become familiar with the contents of this

 5    booklet?

 6       A.   No.

 7       Q.   Before we met, preparing you, have you ever seen it?

 8       A.   No.

 9       Q.   Did you see that any member of the 7th Muslim Brigade had this

10    booklet on him and read it?

11       A.   No.

12       Q.   Was this booklet an item that members of the 7th Muslim Brigade

13    had to have?

14       A.   As far as I know, no, that's not the case.

15       Q.   Thank you.

16            Just for the sake of the transcript, I think there's a mistake in

17    the transcript.  Have you ever seen this booklet?  Did you ever see the

18    booklet before I showed it to you in the course of the proofing.

19       A.   No.

20       Q.   Mr. Terzic, as a member of the 7th Muslim Brigade, as an officer

21    you had certain duties to perform, did you receive a salary?

22       A.   No.

23       Q.   You didn't have a salary of any kind?

24       A.   The regular salary, if it was obtained by the army, but nothing

25    else.

Page 18240

 1       Q.   The salary amounted to 100 or 200 German marks?

 2       A.   No, one could have requested salaries that were late.

 3       Q.   If I've understood you, you had a salary like other members of the

 4    ABiH?

 5       A.   Yes.

 6       Q.   What was the amount of that salary?

 7       A.   Well, in BH dinars, well, I don't know how much it would be in

 8    dinars.  I don't know how much it was in German marks at the time.

 9       Q.   Mr. Terzic, how is the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade

10    equipped?  What was its strength in the course of 1992 and 1993?

11       A.   As was the case in all units at the time, I think that it had 55

12    per cent of the equipment, 60 per cent at the most.  That concerns

13    uniforms, weapons, and materiel and technical equipment.  As far as the

14    manpower is concerned, it wasn't up to full strength.  It was never up to

15    more than about 60 per cent of its establishment strength.

16       Q.   Could you have a look at the documents, documents 7 and 8 in the

17    book of documents.

18            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] These are new documents,

19    Mr. President.

20       Q.   It's dated the 22nd -- the 23rd of February 1993.  Could we have a

21    look at what it says for the 1st Battalion.  It says that there were 252

22    soldiers in the 1st Battalion, and if you include the officers, there were

23    a total of 290 members of that battalion.  Does that reflect the actual

24    situation and what you have just been referring to?

25       A.   Yes.  On the 23rd of February, 1993, that was in fact the

Page 18241

 1    situation.

 2       Q.   Could you please have a look at document number 8.  It's a new

 3    document dated the 14th of March, 1993.  You could perhaps comment on the

 4    document, the part that mentions the level of manpower in percentages for

 5    the 1st Battalion?

 6       A.   The 1st Battalion it had 55 per cent of its strength.  In the

 7    lower role it says automatic rifles, 112; Kalashnikovs, 100, Pops ^ --

 8       Q.   I'll interrupt you there.  According to this document, the 1st

 9    Battalion had 55 per cent manpower and equipment; is that correct?

10       A.   Yes.

11       Q.   A minute ago you mentioned the fact that the 1st Travnik Battalion

12    had its zone of responsibility?

13       A.   Yes, facing the enemy the Serbian and Montenegrin enemy.

14       Q.   Could you tell us where this zone was located?

15       A.   The zone of responsibility extended from the village of Kazici

16    [phoen] inclusive up to ban 60 elevation [as interpreted].  That's a

17    stretch of territory of about four, four and a half kilometres, it also

18    included a unit of a local people, a platoon of some kind, I think.

19            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, with your leave, we

20    would like to show this witness a map that has already been used this

21    these proceedings so that he can refer to the map.

22       Q.   What's this zone called?

23       A.   That's the zone of responsibility from the village of Kazici

24    [phoen], it's the Turbit [phoen] battlefield.

25       Q.   Could you take a felt tip and mark the area with a circle.  You

Page 18242

 1    can circle the area, you can draw a large circle.

 2            THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter can't hear the witness.

 3       A.   [Marks]

 4            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation]

 5       Q.   Does this zone of responsibility face the Serbian and Montenegrin

 6    aggressor, the Army of Republika Srpska?

 7       A.   Yes.

 8       Q.   It's near the town of Turbit?

 9       A.   Yes.

10       Q.   This is the zone that you have indicated, how far is it from

11    Travnik?

12       A.   About five to six kilometres from Travnik or rather it would

13    sooner be between seven and eight kilometres away, because there were no

14    asphalt roads.  It was under blockade so you had to use a village road

15    which wasn't that good, so it took longer.

16       Q.   From a geographic point of view, the zone of responsibility that

17    belonged to the 1st Battalion in relation to Travnik, Han Vila, Vitez, and

18    Mehurici, was it on the opposite side?  Is that correct?

19       A.   Yes, it's on the opposite side.  It's over 40 kilometres away by

20    road.

21       Q.   Thank you.  Could we leave the map there because we'll probably be

22    using it later on or perhaps tomorrow if we don't have time today.

23            Mr. Terzic, do you know who Ramo Durmis is?

24       A.   Yes, I do.  He was a member of the detachment of Muslim forces.

25    How -- he was the commander of the 1st Company.

Page 18243

 1       Q.   He was the commander of the 1st Company.  In which battalion was

 2    he a commander of the 1st Company in the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim

 3    Brigade in the course of 1992?

 4       A.   Yes, he was the commander of the 1st Company of the 1st Battalion

 5    of the 7th Muslim Brigade up until the beginning of January.

 6       Q.   Do you know when Ramo Durmis left the 1st Battalion of the 7th

 7    Muslim Brigade?

 8       A.   He left the Muslim Brigade after a battle or rather on the 28th of

 9    December, the Visegrad elevation.  And as of that date, Ramo Durmis and

10    his company were no longer in the 7th Muslim Brigade.

11       Q.   After that, did Ramo Durmis ever go to the 7th Muslim Brigade did

12    he have any contact of any kind with the 7th Muslim Brigade?

13       A.   I don't remember.  I don't remember him coming or having contact

14    of any kind.  It wasn't my responsibility, I didn't focus on such matters.

15    I don't think he came but I can't remember exactly.

16       Q.   Please have a look at document number 4 in the bundle of documents

17    that we have, it's a new document.

18            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] For the sake of the transcript,

19    I don't think it has been recorded that the witness said that Ramo Durmis

20    by the end of December 1992 left the 7th Muslim Brigade after the combat

21    activities at Visoko, if I've understood it correctly.

22       A.   Yes.

23       Q.   Mr. Terzic, this is dated the 19th of February, 1993, a document

24    coming from the 7th Muslim Brigade?

25       A.   Yes.

Page 18244

 1       Q.   If we look at the bottom of this document, the commander of the

 2    1st Company, the 3rd, the 4th Company, can you please read out loud the

 3    names of the commanders of the 1st Company of the 1st Travnik Battalion.

 4       A.   The commander of the 1st Company of the 1st Battalion, Travnik

 5    Battalion, is Basic Muhamed, the son of Mustafa, born on the 6th of May,

 6    1965 from Donji Vakuf.  And then Jusovic Suad, the son of Mehmo, born on

 7    the third of November 1965 at Kazarici [phoen] in Prijedor. And then

 8    Podojak Faik, I believe he was the son of Fehim, born on the 20th of July,

 9    1967, from Kakanj and Bektas.  Asim, son of Hamdo, born on the 22nd of

10    February 1955 at the village of Poculica at Vitez.

11       Q.   Since we do have interpretation as well, could you please read

12    slightly more slowly because it is simply sufficient for us to hear you

13    read out the name of the commander of the 1st company of the Travnik

14    battalion.

15       A.   The commander of the 1st Company of the 1st Battalion is Muhamed

16    Basic, son of Mustafa, born on the 6th of May, 1965, at Donji Vakuf.

17       Q.   This is a document dated the 19th of February, 1993.  Does this

18    indicate that Ramo Durmis at that time in February of 1993 was no longer

19    the commander of the 1st Company of the 1st Battalion?

20       A.   Yes.

21       Q.   Thank you.  I would like you to look for the document number 20,

22    it's at the very end.

23            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] This is a new document as well,

24    Mr. President.

25       Q.   I would like you to read out the preamble to this document very

Page 18245

 1    slowly.

 2       A.    "The Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina; the 3rd Corps 7th Muslim

 3    Brigade; the military security service number PM 735/93; date the 17th of

 4    August, 1993.  Because of frequent accesses made by fighter Durmis Ramo in

 5    the region of Zenica municipality and wider, and related to that frequent

 6    telephone and other means of complaints to outbreak -- brigade by

 7    civilians, to the effect that he is a member of the 7th Muslim Mountain

 8    Brigade," which is not true, "I order the following:  It shall be

 9    forbidden for Durmis Ramo to enter in the barracks area of the 7th Muslim

10    Mountain Brigade and all its facilities.  Not carrying out of this order

11    shall lead to serious disciplinary responsibility.  First of all, the

12    immediate dismissal of the security officer on duty at the time." [as

13    interpreted]  Thank you.

14       Q.   Thank you.  Does this document indicate that the Security Service

15    of the 7th Brigade distanced itself from some complaints to the effect

16    that Ramo Durmis was a member of that service and even went as far as to

17    bar him, ban him from all their facilities and premises?  Shall I repeat

18    the question, Mr. Terzic?  Does this document that you've just read out to

19    us indicate that the security services, when they received complaints from

20    citizens, stated that he was not a member of the 7th Muslim Brigade and

21    that, moreover, he was banned from entering their premises?

22       A.   Yes.

23       Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Terzic, have you ever heard of the Miletici

24    village?

25       A.   Yes.

Page 18246

 1       Q.   Do you know where it is?

 2       A.   In the municipality of Zvarnik [phoen], somewhere are in the area

 3    of Mehurici.

 4       Q.   Have you ever been there?

 5       A.   No.

 6       Q.   Have you ever heard or heard any information about the 22nd of

 7    April 1993 being the day when -- the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim

 8    Brigade arriving at Miletici or spending time there?

 9       A.   No.

10       Q.   The 7th Muslim Brigade and the 1st Battalion, did they have any

11    organised units in the area of Mehurici, Miletici or any other part of

12    that valley?

13       A.   No.

14       Q.   Have you ever found out what happened at Miletici?

15       A.   A lot later.

16       Q.   I'd like you to look for another document here, the numbers 9, 10,

17    11, and 12.

18            These are new documents as well, Mr. President.

19            If you take a look at the document dated the 24th of April, 1993,

20    the operative group of Bosanska Krajina, 09/373, and item 1 of this

21    document -- item 2, sorry.  Did you find item 2 where it says, "Mujahedin

22    from Miletici village of Brhandi [phoen], 30 elderly people, women, and

23    children to Mehurici village."  Is that the information that you received

24    at - I don't know at what point in time - about what had happened at

25    Miletici?

Page 18247

 1       A.   I found out about that much, much later.  That was new information

 2    for me when I did find out, perhaps five years later.

 3       Q.   Was the information you got five years later the information that

 4    is also reflected in the text here in this report?

 5       A.   Here and there.

 6       Q.   Does this regular combat report refer to any presence of the 7th

 7    Muslim Brigade there in the area?

 8       A.   The 7th Brigade was never there.

 9            MR. MUNDIS:  Mr. President, the last series of questions have been

10    leading and due to the pace with which they're coming, it's extremely

11    difficult to object.  But again, for the record, the direct examination

12    should not be leading.

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Right, then.  I would like to

14    turn to the Defence and ask them to please take account of this comment.

15            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation]

16       Q.   Can you take a look at the next document.  Once again, on the 24th

17    of April, 1993.  The number is 09381.

18       A.   Yes.

19       Q.   Have you taken a look at it?

20       A.   Yes.

21       Q.   Does this document refer to the presence of the brigade that you

22    belonged to there?

23       A.   No, it does not, and let me repeat once again the 7th Brigade was

24    never there.

25       Q.   Could you take a look at the next document, number 11, that is.

Page 18248

 1    This is the Prosecution document.  I'd like you to turn to page 2 of this

 2    document and the one before last paragraph.

 3       A.   The one before last?

 4       Q.   Are you familiar with the name Vahid Jasarevic?

 5       A.   No.

 6       Q.   Do you know of a Lutvo Milanovic?

 7       A.   No.

 8       Q.   Do you know of an Osman Tahirovic?

 9       A.   Vaguely.  I think he must be a electrician.  No.

10       Q.   Were the members of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade?

11       A.   No.

12       Q.   Thank you very much.  Can you take a look at the next document

13    which again is a Prosecution document P561, and if you look at page number

14    2, the Travnik sector, there are references to other names here.  Could

15    you read them out and tell us whether those people were members of the 7th

16    Muslim Brigade?  Have you found the list of names?  Some are in the middle

17    for the Travnik area?

18       A.   Yes.

19       Q.   Fuad Delic, Zijad Kasumovic, Esref Prcanovic, Adem Colo?

20       A.   No.

21       Q.   Are you familiar with these names?

22       A.   No.

23       Q.   Have they ever been members of the 7th Muslim Brigade?

24       A.   No.

25       Q.   Senad Lukovic?

Page 18249

 1       A.   No, you can check it on the basis of our staff lists.

 2       Q.   Fahrudin Kumro?

 3       A.   No.

 4       Q.   Have they ever been members of the Muslim Brigade?

 5       A.   No, they have never been members of the Muslim Brigade.

 6       Q.   Thank you.  Let me just repeat the question once again for the

 7    sake of the transcript:  Have the names that are indicated in this

 8    document -- are these the names of people who were members of the 7th

 9    Muslim Brigade?

10       A.   They have never been members of the 7th Muslim Brigade.

11            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, since I would

12    like to move on to another topic, that is to say the 8th of June at the

13    village of Maline, do you want me to continue now or start tomorrow

14    morning.  Perhaps it might be better.

15            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, you're quite right.  It is

16    7 minutes to 7.00, and so it might be a better idea to stop now and

17    continue tomorrow. Right, then.

18            Sir, you have taken an oath and you are a witness before justice

19    and this means that between now and tomorrow, you will not be meeting with

20    any of parties here, either the Defence team or the Prosecution team, and

21    especially not the Judges.  So you will not be meeting with any of us and

22    you will come back for the hearing which will start tomorrow morning at

23    9.00.

24            Now I'm going to ask the usher to accompany you out of the

25    courtroom.

Page 18250

 1                          [The witness stands down]

 2            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So I would just like to turn to

 3    the Defence, how much more time will you need tomorrow in complete your

 4    examination-in-chief?

 5            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] I believe we would need 45

 6    minutes, at most, so it is less than we thought and planned for.

 7            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, then.  And the second

 8    witness will be ready as well, he is already there.

 9            MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] The second witness is here as

10    well and we just wanted to hear what your suggestion would be.  But I

11    don't know.  Obviously the colleagues from the Prosecution might want to

12    use the time that we don't need to use, but we would like to know whether

13    we can invite the second witness after the second break.  It won't take

14    very long, it will mean that we might probably finish with that witness

15    tomorrow in the course of the day.

16            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then.  So we shall go

17    into private session.

18                          [Private session]

19  (redacted)

20  (redacted)

21  (redacted)

22  (redacted)

23  (redacted)

24  (redacted)

25  (redacted)

Page 18251











11    Page 18251 redacted. Private session.















Page 18252

 1  (redacted)

 2  (redacted)

 3  (redacted)

 4  (redacted)

 5  (redacted)

 6  (redacted)

 7  (redacted)

 8  (redacted)

 9  (redacted)

10  (redacted)

11  (redacted)

12  (redacted)

13  (redacted)

14  (redacted)

15  (redacted)

16  (redacted)

17  (redacted)

18  (redacted)

19  (redacted)

20  (redacted)

21  (redacted)

22                          [Open session]

23            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are once again in open session.

24            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So it is 7.00 and we shall stop

25    now and continue tomorrow morning at 9.00.

Page 18253

 1                          --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.00 p.m.

 2                          To be reconvened on Tuesday, the 12th day of April,

 3                          2005, at 9.00 a.m.