Page 52

1 Tuesday, 24 May 2005

2 [Motion Hearing]

3 [Open session]

4 --- Upon commencing at 12.50 p.m.

5 [The accused entered court]

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Madam Registrar, could you call the case,

7 please.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is case

9 number IT-04-84-PT, the Prosecutor versus Ramush Haradinaj, Idriz Balaj,

10 and Lahi Brahimaj. This is the provisional release hearing of Ramush

11 Haradinaj.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Madam Registrar, and good afternoon to

13 you.

14 Mr. Haradinaj, good afternoon to you. I want to make sure that

15 you are receiving interpretation in a language that you understand.

16 THE ACCUSED: Yes. I'm following it in English, but I'm looking

17 for Albanian. I'm think it's here.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I want to make sure you are receiving it in

19 Albanian. What channel is that?

20 I will put the question again. Mr. Haradinaj, irrespective of

21 the fact that you seem to understand and speak English, I want to make

22 sure that you are also receiving interpretation in your own language.

23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Distinguished Honours, I

24 receive Albanian translation and I follow it.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. And if at any time there are problems

Page 53

1 with interpretation, with the reception of the interpretation or with the

2 sound level, please let me know. Draw our attention straight away.

3 Appearances for the Prosecution.

4 MR. GROOME: Good afternoon, Your Honours. For the Prosecution

5 Dermot Groome with Marie Tuma assisted by Salla Moilanen.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you and good afternoon to you and your team.

7 Appearances for Mr. Haradinaj.

8 MR. EMMERSON: Your Honours, Mr. Ben Emmerson, together with by

9 Mr. Rodney Dixon and assisted by Mr. Michael O'Reilly.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon, Mr. Emmerson and to your team.

11 I also notice there is a representative from the United Nations

12 Mission to Kosovo. Sir, welcome to the Tribunal. Could you identify

13 yourself for the record, please.

14 MR. ROSSIN: Yes, sir. My name is Lawrence Rossin. I'm the --

15 sorry, sir. My name is Lawrence Rossin. I'm the Principal Deputy

16 Special Representative of the Secretary-General for UNMIK in Kosovo.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. Welcome and good afternoon to you

18 too.

19 As you heard earlier on when Madam Registrar called the case,

20 this is a special hearing that the Trial Chamber has granted to hear

21 submissions, to receive submissions, oral submissions, pursuant to the

22 application for provisional release which has been filed by the accused

23 in this case pursuant to Rule 65 of the Rules.

24 For your information, we have, of course, received copies of the

25 Defence motion which was filed on the 21st of April, for the record, as

Page 54

1 well as the Prosecution response to that which was filed on the 5th of

2 May of 2005, and then subsequently to the Defence response to the

3 Prosecution response, and that is dated the 12th of May, a few days ago

4 basically. And it is on the basis of these documents that we decided to

5 have this hearing so that you can more or less summarise the arguments to

6 the Trial Chamber now that all the documentation is available.

7 I mentioned three documents which are on the record, but there is

8 also something else, and that is submissions that have been received from

9 the United Nations Mission in Kosovo, and these were received on the 17th

10 of May, and I understand have been made available to -- to both parties.

11 We were of the firm opinion that today's sitting shouldn't take

12 more than is really necessary by way of submissions, particularly taking

13 into consideration the detail which is contained in the Defence motion,

14 Prosecution response, reply, et cetera. So we decided to organise the

15 hearing in a way in which each party will have a 15-minute slot to

16 address the Trial Chamber, and of course there will also be time for the

17 representative of UNMIK to address the Trial Chamber as well.

18 Since there is this limited time slot, I would suggest that you

19 concentrate on what is the essence of the application and on those parts

20 of the motion and response where you register disagreement. And in your

21 submissions to the Trial Chamber, please do keep in mind also the

22 information that UNMIK has provided to both of you in its confidential

23 the note that I referred to earlier.

24 One further matter that I would like you to address is that it's

25 not quite clear to the Trial Chamber as yet, at least, we may have

Page 55

1 overlooked it but I don't think we have, whether the -- your client, Mr.

2 Emmerson, is seeking to be provisionally released to Pristina or to his

3 hometown of Glodjane. The other thing we would also like you to address

4 is what is your client's position if provisional release is granted as to

5 his involvement in the political scene, political activities in his

6 country.

7 Yes, Mr. Emmerson.

8 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Your microphone, please.

10 MR. EMMERSON: My apologies. We submit that the case for

11 provisional release of Mr. Haradinaj is an overwhelming one. On the

12 material which has been submitted, we respectfully submit that the Trial

13 Chamber can be fully satisfied that he would appear for trial when

14 ordered to do so if released and that he would pose no danger to any

15 witness, victim or other person. And may I group our submissions briefly

16 under five headings.

17 The first and perhaps the most important point I want to make

18 concerns the character of Mr. Haradinaj and his conduct in response to

19 the indictment. As the Chamber is very well aware, when the indictment

20 was formally communicated to Mr. Haradinaj on the 8th of March of this

21 year, he immediately resigned his post as Prime Minister and made

22 arrangements voluntarily to surrender himself to the Tribunal the

23 following day. And it's important that I should briefly say something

24 about the dignity and responsibility of his actions in surrendering

25 promptly in that way and what those matters say about his attitude to

Page 56

1 these proceedings.

2 We respectfully invite you to accept that Mr. Haradinaj's

3 response to the indictment signifies not only that he is a man whose

4 words can be trusted when he promises his cooperation, but also that he

5 is a statesman who has led by example and who has demonstrated and

6 continues to demonstrate his commitment to the international rule of law.

7 Even the Prosecution would, I think, acknowledge that his conduct in

8 setting that example does him credit and has done a considerable service

9 to the cause of peace and stability in Kosovo, to the work of the

10 international community, and to the authority of this Tribunal.

11 The reason he responded in the way that he did is set out in his

12 own words in the statement that he has provided to the Tribunal, and it's

13 important that I very briefly place that statement on the public record.

14 He said this: "Compliance with the requirements of international law is

15 essential to securing the political future of Kosovo as an independent,

16 sovereign state and eventually as a full member of NATO and the EU. It

17 was unthinkable, therefore, that as Prime Minister or as a citizen of the

18 future state of Kosovo I would do anything other than comply immediately

19 and unreservedly with an order of the Tribunal and that will continue to

20 be the case."

21 When publicly announcing his resignation to the people of Kosovo,

22 Mr. Haradinaj, as Your Honours know, called for calm and for a dignified

23 response emphasising that Kosovo's aspirations to take its rightful place

24 in the international community in themselves meant cooperation with

25 international justice. And as the Chamber can see from the testimonial

Page 57

1 submitted in support, all of those who have observed him at close

2 quarters before and during his short tenure as Prime Minister recognised

3 those sentiments from him coming from a man who has made it his personal

4 mission to create a democratic, pluralist and tolerant society in Kosovo

5 which is governed by the rule of law. And they recognise, too, that his

6 principled response to this indictment contributed in no small way to the

7 maintenance of peace and stability in Kosovo in the weeks that followed

8 his resignation.

9 As Your Honours will have seen, the special representative of the

10 Secretary-General characterised Mr. Haradinaj's conduct at the time as an

11 example of Kosovo's growing political maturity as a responsible member of

12 the international community. The former commander of KFOR, General Klaus

13 Reinhardt, describes Mr. Haradinaj as a man of integrity who will

14 continue as he always has done to honour his obligations to the

15 international community and the rule of law. And Senator Joe Biden in a

16 statement to the US Congress publicly saluted Mr. Haradinaj both for his

17 personal courage and for the striking statesmanship he showed in response

18 to the indictment.

19 Those sentiments, Your Honours, are echoed in the statements that

20 you've seen from the government of the United Kingdom, from the former

21 British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, and from leading members of the

22 Kosovo political community, President Rugova, Mr. Daci, president of the

23 Assembly of Kosovo, Hashim Thaqi, leader of the principal opposition

24 party and Mr. Kosumi.

25 It is in this context, Mr. President, Members of the Chamber,

Page 58

1 that we say that this Tribunal can safely conclude that Mr. Haradinaj is

2 a man who can be taken at his word and who will abide in the future as he

3 has done in the past with the requirements of international law in

4 general and with the orders of this Tribunal in particular.

5 It is important to point out that he's not asking for any form of

6 special treatment. He asks only that he be treated in the same way as

7 other indictees who have voluntarily and promptly surrendered and who

8 have been granted provisional release in recognition of their full

9 acceptance of this Tribunal's jurisdiction. There is, we say, every

10 reason to believe that Mr. Haradinaj's exemplary conduct in the past will

11 continue if he is provisionally released. And as Your Honours know, in

12 his written statement to the Tribunal he's given a formal undertaking

13 that he will abide in full by any order which the Tribunal may make; that

14 he will not contact in any way or otherwise interfere with any witness;

15 that he won't in any way obstruct the administration of justice. And in

16 our submission, given what is known about this man's character and

17 conduct in the past, the Tribunal can have confidence that if released he

18 would be good to his word. And that's the first point I want to make.

19 The second is that exceptionally in this case, UNMIK is willing

20 and able to give guarantees to ensure that any conditions imposed by this

21 Tribunal are complied with. We have suggested a series of 21 conditions

22 in our motion, many of which involve measures of implementation and

23 monitoring by UNMIK including a provision that in the event of any breach

24 of the conditions of provisional release UNMIK will arrest Mr. Haradinaj

25 and return him to The Hague.

Page 59

1 May I come to the questions, Mr. President, that you asked about,

2 the terms and scope of the conditions, towards the end of the short

3 submission I make.

4 Mr. President, the Special Representative of the

5 Secretary-General has, as you know, provided written confirmation to the

6 Tribunal that UNMIK has both the legal and the practical capacity to give

7 such guarantees and to implement them by arresting Mr. Haradinaj if

8 directed by the Trial Chamber to do so, although it's right for me to

9 point out that in our submission, Mr. Haradinaj's past conduct makes it

10 unlikely in the extreme that UNMIK would ever be called upon to return

11 him to The Hague against his will. If he were directed to return, he

12 would return voluntarily and honourably as he has now done twice.

13 May I mention one matter in private session?

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Let's -- let's go into private session for a

15 while.

16 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel please slow down. Thank you.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Emmerson, I don't know if you heard.

18 MR. EMMERSON: I did hear that, yes.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.

20 [Private session]

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 60

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 [Open session]

13 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: We are in open session. You may proceed, Mr.

15 Emmerson. Thank you.

16 MR. EMMERSON: Mr. Rossin is obviously here and in a position to

17 speak to any issues of details that the Chamber may wish to raise but for

18 present purposes may we make two points. First, the willingness of UNMIK

19 to provide these guarantees is in itself testament to their confidence in

20 Mr. Haradinaj and to the stabilising influence that he represents. But

21 secondly, the assurances provided by the SRSG should in our submission

22 put beyond doubt the practical enforcement of any conditions which the

23 Tribunal may impose.

24 Mr. President, the third point I want to make is in reality an

25 illustration of the first two points. Mr. Haradinaj was provisionally

Page 61

1 released to attend his brother's funeral in Kosovo between the 17th and

2 the 19th of April, and on that occasion, too, UNMIK provided guarantees

3 and undertook responsibility for Mr. Haradinaj whilst he was in Kosovo.

4 UNMIK managed the situation effectively, provided security personnel to

5 accompany Mr. Haradinaj throughout the time that he was in Kosovo, and

6 returned him to the custody of the ICTY as directed on the 19th.

7 Obviously the circumstances were different. The release was for

8 a limited period on exceptional compassionate grounds and was attended by

9 conditions stricter than those that would apply to a provisional release

10 pending trial. Nevertheless, it is plainly of some significance that the

11 early period of provisional release passed off as successfully as it did

12 without any breach or alleged breach of any of the conditions imposed and

13 that Mr. Haradinaj once again demonstrated his full commitment to abiding

14 by the orders of the Tribunal.

15 Mr. President, that really brings me to the fourth point, the

16 issue of witness intimidation raised in the Prosecutor's present motion.

17 Time plainly does not permit me to address each of the individual points

18 the Prosecution has raised; they're dealt with in our written reply. But

19 may I address them briefly and collectively in this way: First, it is of

20 course well established on this Tribunal's jurisprudence that mere

21 generalised concerns about witness safety or confidence don't justify

22 refusing provisional release. A concrete danger needs to be identified.

23 There must be a clear threat to the safety of witnesses which is linked

24 to specific acts or conduct of the accused. That of course was the

25 approach of this Tribunal in the Prlic case, in Cermak, in Stanisic, in

Page 62

1 Milutinovic and more recently in Delic. But the Prosecution here has

2 failed to point to any act, conduct or words, of Mr. Haradinaj's which

3 represents any threat to actual or potential witnesses in this

4 indictment.

5 In its motion, the Prosecution draws attention to generalised

6 concerns about witness intimidation in Kosovo and they point to a number

7 of specific attacks, some of them fatal on individuals who had in fact

8 given evidence in proceedings domestically in Kosovo. It's right for me

9 to point out, of course, that there is no conclusively proven link

10 between those attacks and the giving of testimony, but far more

11 importantly, as the Prosecution expressly concedes, there is no

12 suggestion whatsoever that this accused, Ramush Haradinaj, has ever been

13 involved directly or indirectly in intimidating any witness in any

14 proceedings in any way. He has never done or said anything to obstruct

15 the course of justice and nor is there any reason to believe he would do

16 so in the future. Indeed, the reverse: He's taken two distinct positive

17 steps to ensure that witnesses and potential witnesses are confident in

18 their ability to provide statements and give evidence in these

19 proceedings.

20 First, as the Chamber knows, he consented to the range of

21 protective measures sought by the Prosecution which were subject to

22 amendments approved by this Chamber last week. He took that entirely

23 responsible position on the basis that at this stage it was unnecessary

24 for him to oppose those measures and in the result for the present the

25 position is this: Any witness who might be afraid or even uncomfortable

Page 63

1 about giving evidence has the benefit of anonymity and any change to that

2 position will be a matter for the Trial Chamber to decide on a

3 case-by-case basis.

4 But secondly, he has taken the pro-active step of issuing a

5 statement through his legal representative in Kosovo calling for

6 witnesses to be able to come forward and give evidence to the Tribunal

7 free from interference or intimidation. That statement, as you know, was

8 made on the 11th of May. It was a public acceptance again by Mr.

9 Haradinaj of his personal responsibility to answer the allegations before

10 him in this Tribunal. It expressed confidence in this Tribunal's ability

11 to return a true verdict according to the evidence, and emphasised once

12 again the importance of individuals respecting the rule of law at all

13 times and in all circumstances and ensuring that anyone who was asked to

14 come to The Hague is able to do so free of interference or intimidation

15 of any kind.

16 It is, with respect, difficult to see how he could have done more

17 to build public confidence in these proceedings and the ability of

18 witnesses to cooperate. And of course as Your Honours will recall, there

19 was a period of four months between him being informed of the detail of

20 the allegations against him and the indictment being issued. Had he been

21 the sort of person, quite different from the man that he is, who was

22 minded to interfere with or put pressure on witnesses, that would have

23 been the time in which to do it. There was no evidence and no suggestion

24 that anything of that sort occurred.

25 Mr. President, our fifth and final point, then, is whether Mr.

Page 64

1 Haradinaj is released or not, the trial in this case is unlikely to begin

2 before 2007. However soon the Prosecution may find themselves ready,

3 Defence investigations and preparations are bound to take a very

4 considerable time. And it is in our submission quite disproportionate on

5 the particular facts of this case, each case being decided on its own

6 facts, to contemplate a period of two years pre-trial detention for a man

7 who has shown by his conduct such an exemplary lead.

8 Finally this: In summary, we submit that this is a clear case

9 for provisional release. The Tribunal can, we say, have complete

10 confidence that any conditions imposed will be observed with the added

11 security of the UNMIK guarantees, and whilst there may, and no doubt Mr.

12 Groome may refer to them, have been unrelated incidents of witness

13 intimidation or violence in other cases in Kosovo there is no basis

14 whatever for trying to lay the responsibility for those events at the

15 door of a man who has repeatedly affirmed in public and in private his

16 respect for the rule of law and his determination to establish his

17 innocence through a fair trial in which all the evidence is heard by this

18 Tribunal. He has every expectation that when all the evidence is heard

19 and tested he will be acquitted of these allegations and that he will in

20 due course return to a prominent role in the political life of Kosovo.

21 So he knows only too well how much damage would be done to him personally

22 and to the future of Kosovo if there were to be any interference with

23 witnesses in this case or any other breach of the conditions of his

24 provisional release. And we say for all those reasons that the Chamber

25 can be confident that that will not happen.

Page 65

1 As to the two specific points that you raised with me, Mr.

2 President, at the outset, his application is for provisional release to

3 Kosovo. We recognise in practical terms that the Chamber will or may

4 want to restrict the scope of his freedom of movement within Kosovo. His

5 application in those circumstances would be for release to Pristina and

6 to his home address as well, with provision being made as it was during

7 the course of the earlier period of provisional release for direct travel

8 between the two.

9 Insofar as political activity is concerned, the way that we have

10 expressed it had in our suggested 21 conditions is that Mr. Haradinaj

11 will undertake not to take or adopt any governmental position within

12 Kosovo. He is of course an active member and leader of a political party

13 within Kosovo, and unless the Tribunal directed him to do so, he would

14 not wish to surrender his right to speak as part of the political process

15 within Kosovo. But he does of course accept that that right does not

16 extend to his being in a position to speak publicly to the media or

17 otherwise about these proceedings.

18 Mr. President, Members of the Court, those are the submissions I

19 want to make.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you very much, Mr. Emmerson. And thank you

21 also for sticking to the time limit indicated to you.

22 Mr. Groome.

23 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, the Prosecution has set forth its

24 position in the papers that are now before you. It is not my intention

25 to rehearse here what has been written there. I will therefore limit my

Page 66

1 examination of the relevant factors to you in three points.

2 At the outset, the Prosecution will be -- fortunately, in this

3 case there have been numerous reports presented by the Secretary-General

4 of the United Nations to the Security Council that are relevant to the

5 situation in Kosovo both with respect to the capacities of UNMIK as well

6 as the situation facing witnesses. I have assembled those in a binder.

7 I have given them to the Registrar, and would I ask that they be accepted

8 as exhibits in this hearing. I have an additional copy here for the

9 senior legal officer and Defence counsel have been provided one in

10 advance or just prior to this hearing. There are 11 tabs in that binder,

11 Your Honour, most of which are reports from the Secretary-General to the

12 Security Council.

13 Second point at the outset, Your Honour, it was my intention to

14 deal with the letters submitted by both Mr. Rossin and Mr.

15 Jessen-Petersen. I recognise that Mr. Emmerson dealt with those in

16 private session. It was my intention to do so unless it was necessary.

17 So may I just inquire: Is it necessary that I do refer to them in

18 private session? And if so I will do that.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, at this point I think it needs to deal with

20 those in private session once they have dealt with in private session

21 before, then obviously we reserve our position, our decision because we

22 will certainly need to refer to them and we will decide then at that

23 moment whether to refer to them confidentially or not.

24 So let's go into private session for a while.

25 [Private session]

Page 67

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 [Open session]

19 JUDGE AGIUS: We are in open session, Mr. Groome.

20 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, I will explore the limitations of

21 UNMIK's capacities to ensure the return of the briefly accused now.

22 As stated in the Prosecution's written submissions, in the Limaj

23 case UNMIK when it declined to extend guarantees set out four reasons:

24 the seriousness of the charges, the geography of Kosovo, UNMIK's limited

25 police resources, and the support available to the accused. The

Page 68

1 Prosecution has set out its response in writing. I would ask that Mr.

2 Rossin during his remarks please deal in detailed terms with what has

3 changed about those four factors that now give them confidence in

4 extending the guarantees that they extend on behalf of Mr. Haradinaj.

5 We may go back briefly into private session to deal with a letter

6 from Mr. Jessen-Petersen.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Let's go into private session for a while,

8 please.

9 [Private session]

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 [Open session]

20 JUDGE AGIUS: We are back in open session.

21 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, assuming that the information that Mr.

22 Jessen-Petersen has provided is accurate, the question then becomes will

23 this change in the circumstances regarding the police force, will it

24 prevent a recurrence of what happened let's say in the Limaj case where

25 several days after the UNMIK was provided the arrest warrants of Mr.

Page 69

1 Limaj he proceeded out of the airport under his own name and left the

2 country. We have to examine this in detail.

3 One of the issues that I believe the -- is relevant to this is

4 the level of international police officers that remain in Kosovo to this

5 day. If I could direct the Chamber to tab 9. It is a report from the

6 UNMIK website about the level of police. For the convenience of the

7 Court, I've also put these -- or the relevant portion on the Sanction

8 system, so if I can just call up that now.

9 What we see is that in 2003, there was a dramatic reduction in

10 the amount of international police officers that were present in Kosovo.

11 The figures that I have are just as of the end of 2003, although the

12 UNMIK website does spell out its intention to make further reductions in

13 2004 and 2005. I think it would be helpful for Mr. Rossin to also

14 perhaps give the current levels of international staffing.

15 So while there has been an increase in local police there is a

16 decrease in international police present -- presence. Now, the question:

17 Are they as effective?

18 A fortnight ago, the UN Secretary-General gave a report to the

19 United Nations Security Council. That was the 10th of May. In his

20 assessment he speaks of smuggling. One of the things that you've been

21 asked to look at or has to do with border police. If you look at what

22 the Secretary-General Kofi Annan said just a few days ago, in terms of

23 organised crimes and incidents related to smuggling, it's actually

24 doubled from the period between February of this year to March of this

25 year. So while in fact there may be more local police officers, the

Page 70

1 Prosecution is very concerned that they are not as effective as the

2 international police presence who is there as demonstrated by this

3 deterioration in the security of the borders of Kosovo.

4 Your Honour, the second point that I want to make is what

5 institutions will effectively be charged with this responsibility of

6 returning Mr. Haradinaj in the months to come. As the Appeals Chamber in

7 Ojdanic states, "It is important for the Chamber to examine the

8 circumstances prevailing at the time of provisional release, but then

9 also the foreseeable circumstances as -- at the time when the person may

10 be called to attend his trial."

11 So in this case, the Chamber must look ahead. As Mr. Emmerson

12 has said it may not be until 2007 that this case will go to trial if the

13 accused were provisionally released. UNMIK in its very conception is a

14 temporary institution. The I in UNMIK stands for interim. It's an

15 institution whose mandate is to minimise its roll over time and

16 eventually close its mission, turning over its authority to local

17 institutions. So therefore, it is incumbent upon this Chamber to examine

18 those local institutions which will be vested with the authority to

19 arrest Mr. Haradinaj should he decide not to return for his trial.

20 By way of definition, there are two: The Kosovo Protection Corps

21 or KPC. This is the civilian-controlled organisation that succeeded the

22 Kosovo Liberation Army of which the accused was a commander.

23 The second is the Kosovo police service, KPS, the police

24 department made up of local citizens, many of whom were armed combatants

25 during the war and also members of the KLA.

Page 71

1 I want to draw your attention to tab 6 in the materials. It is a

2 report to the Security Council by the Secretary-General describing how

3 the intention of the -- or the mission of UNMIK has over the recent

4 period, and this is February 14, 2005, been to transfer more and more

5 police stations to the control and to the authority of the KPS.

6 Mr. Jessen-Petersen himself in his appearance before the Security

7 Council on the 24th of February, 2005 - and this is on the screen now and

8 it's also in tab 7 - Mr. Jessen-Petersen described that over the last six

9 months the process has been accelerated to the transfer of competencies

10 from UNMIK to the provisional institutions. And he says -- "We are

11 looking at transferring further responsibilities in the area of justice

12 and police." So we can see UNMIK is in the process of accelerating the

13 shift of authority from themselves to the KPC and the KPS.

14 So the question then becomes what confidence can this Chamber

15 have that they will execute arrest warrants against Mr. Haradinaj should

16 he fail to appear. And again there is some evidence to suggest or ample

17 evidence to suggest that the Court may not be confident of that. I draw

18 the Chamber's attention to tab 2 and again it's a report of the

19 Secretary-General to the Security Council and it's -- the relevant

20 portion is up on the screen.

21 One of the mention that Mr. Annan brought Security Council's

22 attention was that 51 members of the KPC refused to sign an oath

23 eschewing association with terrorist groups. He also spoke of general --

24 of three senior KPC commanders being removed for being linked to the

25 detonation and explosion after bridge in Lozica on the 12th of April.

Page 72

1 He also pointed out to the Security Council that -- the persistent

2 problem of extremism among members of the KPC.

3 On 31 of March, 2004 he described the address of another KPC

4 commander, a brigadier general and in it he described that arrest as well

5 as the arrest of others and they were arrested for crimes including

6 crimes as serious as murder. These were members of the KPC.

7 With respect to whether these members of the KPC are facilitating

8 the shift to the rule of law or hindering it, there's a report from the

9 Institute For War and Peace Reporting dated the 30th of June, 2003,

10 stating that UNMIK have confirmed that there were several members of the

11 KPC being held on suspicion of interfering with a police investigation.

12 Your Honour, over the course of our investigations, we have

13 gathered considerable information on former members of the KLA. I asked

14 the investigators to come up with a reliable conservative estimate of how

15 many of these forces were --

16 THE INTERPRETER: Kindly slow down.

17 MR. GROOME: -- comrades of the accused. With respect to the KPC

18 they tell me that they estimate around 9 per cent of that force would

19 have some former relationship to the accused. With respect to the KPS,

20 they do not have sufficient data to calculate a figure but estimate it to

21 be more than the 9 percent in the KPC. So in effect, Your Honour, the

22 people that will be charged with the duty of returning Mr. Haradinaj

23 should he fail to return would in large part or in significant part be

24 people that had some prior relationship with him.

25 Your Honours, it is the Prosecution's position that the Court

Page 73

1 cannot be satisfied that when the time for trial comes, when UNMIK is no

2 longer in existence or in its final stages of transferring its authority

3 to institutions like the KPC and the KPS, this Chamber cannot be

4 satisfied that these institutions at this juncture will ensure that Mr.

5 Haradinaj appears for trial.

6 With respect to the government itself, I think it's noteworthy to

7 point out to the Chamber that on the 13th of April, UNMIK reported in its

8 coverage of local media that -- well, I'll read a quote: "It's based on

9 a recommendation from Kosovo government. The committee for the defence

10 of Ramush Haradinaj has been sets up and has held its first meeting."

11 This is a statement by the Kosovo government. It shows a certain bias in

12 favour of the accused. This is one of the institutions which the Chamber

13 would have to rely upon if it was ever necessary to secure the attendance

14 of Mr. Haradinaj at trial.

15 With respect to the third point, Your Honour, my third point is

16 witness security. The situation for witnesses in Kosovo is very dire,

17 and it is very different than any other situation, I think, that's come

18 before the Tribunal before. If I might go briefly into private session

19 to raise one matter with the Chamber.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Let's go into private session for a while,

21 please.

22 [Private session]

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 74











11 Page 74 redacted. Private session.















Page 75

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 [Open session]

22 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, perhaps the best indication of what the

23 witnesses in this case may face is a careful examination of the

24 successful prosecution of a quadruple homicide in which the accused's

25 brother, Daut Haradinaj, was convicted. It is the Prosecution's position

Page 76

1 that there is a parity, a parallel interest between those who sought to

2 interfere with that trial and those who might seek to interrupt this

3 Prosecution. I point out to the Chamber that one of the accused in this

4 case, Idriz Balaj, was also prosecuted in that case and was convicted and

5 is now serving a sentence of 15 years. The accused's brother was also

6 convicted and is serving a sentence of five years.

7 The short facts of that case are that four people were told that

8 the accused Ramush Haradinaj wanted to see them and they were asked to

9 get into a car. They were brought to the village of Ratish, which is

10 approximately two kilometres from the headquarters or the then

11 headquarters of Mr. Haradinaj. It is also part of the area that it is

12 alleged in this indictment that the accused had control over.

13 There was a map provided in those materials as well at the very

14 beginning so you can see the relationship between those two.

15 Your Honours, ten -- no less than ten people connected with the

16 prosecution of that case including witnesses and innocent bystanders have

17 been violently killed. Four of them -- three of them were witnesses who

18 had the courage to come forward and cooperate with local authorities, two

19 were investigators who were charged with investigating the murder of one

20 of those witnesses, and three were people that happened to be at a police

21 station at the time that police station was attacked in an attempt to

22 harm another witness in that case.

23 The reaction, Your Honour, to the verdict in that case as

24 reported by the Secretary-General on the 2nd of September, 2003, was much

25 unrest and attacks against police stations, including grenade attacks.

Page 77

1 Mr. Ramush Haradinaj himself gave a public statement about his reaction

2 to that verdict and it bespeaks of, at least at that time and place, the

3 attitude towards the judicial system and I have that on the screen. He

4 said that -- the UN mission of organising the politically motivated trial

5 against his brother and he denounced the verdict as the protectorate's

6 judiciary was unjust.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Please try to conclude, Mr. Groome.

8 MR. GROOME: Yes, Your Honour. Your Honour, Before you on the

9 screen now is summary of what happened to the witnesses in that case.

10 All these witnesses testified in the fall of 2002. On the 4th of

11 January, 2003, Mr. Tahir Zemaj and his nephew and his son were killed.

12 On the 22nd of January, as reported by the Secretary-General, there was a

13 rocket attack against the police station investigating Mr. Zemi's murder.

14 On the 14th of April, 2003, the witness Ilir Selimaj was killed in an

15 ambush. On the 2nd of August, 2003, as described in the materials and in

16 a report by the Secretary-General to the Security Council, three innocent

17 people, one a girl of age 11, were killed in an attack on the police

18 station in which the witness Kelmendi was present. These were simply

19 innocent bystanders. On the 24th of November 2003, two police officers

20 investigating Mr. Zemaj's murder were murdered themselves. On the 2nd of

21 February, this year, another witness, Mr. Sadik Musaj is murdered after

22 several assassination attempts. In July 2002, several months before the

23 commencement of the trial and his testimony -- and I don't know that

24 they're connected Your Honour. I'm just pointing out the temporal

25 relationship between this event and Mr. Musaj's testimony in the trial --

Page 78

1 this accused and his brother themselves at 1.00 in the morning scaled the

2 wall of the -- Mr. Musaj's house, armed; a gun battle ensued inside that

3 compound where Mr. Ramush Haradinaj and Mr. Daut Haradinaj were both

4 injured. He was flown to Germany where he recuperated from his injuries.

5 Prior to the trial of Daut Haradinaj, Ismet Musaj, the brother of Sadik

6 was also killed. Again, I don't have specific information that this

7 accused has been directly involved or has solicited these acts. I do

8 point out the temporal relationship between the two.

9 Your Honour, I'll move very quickly through --

10 JUDGE AGIUS: I think I have to ask you to con -- to finish here,

11 Mr. Groome, because you have exceeded by more than ten minutes. So if

12 you need to refer to any other particular issue which is contained in

13 your response then do so, but time is over.

14 MR. GROOME: Okay. Your Honour. If I may have just two minutes

15 then to conclude. I would just point out an UNMIK spokesman Mr.

16 Lindmeier, in a published article did point out that the biggest problem

17 is witnesses, that witnesses are under severe threat in Kosovo. I ask

18 the Chamber to consider that.

19 Your Honour, the Prosecution's position that this Chamber --

20 until the international community knows who is responsible for the

21 killing of so many people in connection with this Prosecution, until the

22 international community knows that and knows that and this Chamber knows

23 that they are no way associated with Mr. Haradinaj it is the

24 Prosecution's position that this Chamber cannot be satisfied that his

25 release will not have a negative effect on the security of witnesses.

Page 79

1 I would point out once again that the Prosecution is requesting

2 for an expedited trial in this matter and I once again restate the

3 Prosecutor's personal assurance to -- to devote whatever resources are

4 necessary to meet any time frame that the Chamber establishes for the

5 trial of this matter.

6 Your Honour, for those reasons the Prosecution respectfully

7 requests that the application be denied and I thank you for extending me

8 some extra time to deal with these matters.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Groome.

10 Mr. Rossin, you have heard what both parties had to say,

11 particularly in relation to the role that UNMIK fulfils at present and

12 that it would fulfil if and when provisional release is granted. In

13 particular, I would like you to address the three points that have been

14 raised by Mr. Groome and namely he doesn't seem to be satisfied with the

15 explanation that has already been given in the 12th May letter, namely

16 that there is an affirmation that the resources of UNMIK have improved

17 considerably since the position -- last position taken by your mission in

18 relation to the Limaj case. He wants some sort of further information.

19 Secondly, he refers or he alleges that the -- irrespective of

20 what is mentioned in the 12th May letter, it seems that there is

21 documentation to the effect that the situation has deteriorated in Kosovo

22 in spite of the change in the number of police.

23 And third but not least, Prosecution seems to be concerned with

24 the fact that UNMIK is limited in time and that before the trial comes or

25 arrives it might as well not be in existence any more and that in effect

Page 80

1 in the interim period there is also this other factor that is

2 preoccupying the Prosecution, namely that UNMIK is gradually but surely

3 transferring areas of responsibilities and measures of responsibilities

4 and authorities to KPC and KPS who or which are not trustworthy, in their

5 opinion at least, for the purposes of what the exercise we are here for

6 today. So I would like you to address these three points in particular.

7 You have the floor. Thank you.

8 MR. ROSSIN: Thank you, Your Honour. Do you want me to stand? I

9 don't have a --

10 JUDGE AGIUS: You may. If you prefer to remain seated.

11 MR. ROSSIN: Thank you very much since I don't have a podium like

12 the counsel do.

13 If I might Your Honour and I'll try and be brief, I'd just like

14 to introduce myself again as the Principal Deputy Special Representative

15 for the Secretary-General for the UN Interim Administration Mission, as

16 indeed it is. In Kosovo I have the rank of Assistant Secretary-General

17 of the United Nations and I am representing UNMIK. And I'd like to thank

18 you, Mr. President also for adjusting your skilled walling to make it

19 possible for me to appear. I'm very grateful for your flexibility.

20 UNMIK is indeed, as you know, the United Nations body that has

21 responsibility for the interim administration of Kosovo under Resolution

22 1244. As such UNMIK has the authority and the power to provide

23 guarantees that are requested by the Tribunal. Under paragraph 14 of

24 Security Council Resolution 1244, indeed UNMIK is obliged to cooperate

25 fully with the Tribunal and we view this process in that context. UNMIK

Page 81

1 will therefore fulfil any requirements that may be imposed by the

2 Tribunal. UNMIK has in fact full authority over law enforcement in

3 Kosovo and will continue to have that authority until the termination of

4 its mandate and the succession of another UN Security Council Resolution.

5 I acknowledge readily that the specific requirements that the

6 Tribunal imposes in the case of provisional release depend very much on

7 the circumstances of the case in question. That is an obvious case.

8 UNMIK has to this point of course received no request for specific

9 guarantees from the Tribunal in this current case, but UNMIK clearly will

10 provide all guarantees and only those guarantees as it is confident can

11 it practically fulfil. That's an obligation of the Special

12 Representative, I believe, in the Resolution.

13 In principle, UNMIK has the capacity to implement a range of

14 guarantees. We're familiar about the kinds of guarantees that the Court

15 has asked for in other cases. These guarantees include but might not

16 necessarily be limited to receiving a defendant on arrival and

17 transferring him to the custody --

18 THE INTERPRETER: Kindly slow down for the interpreters. Thank

19 you.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Slow down, please, Mr. Rossin.

21 MR. ROSSIN: Receiving a defendant on arrival and transferring

22 him to the custody of ICTY representatives on departure; implementing

23 arrangements to ensure that the location of a defendant is checked and

24 monitored; providing personal security for a defendant; taking action in

25 case a breach of the conditions of provisional release is discovered; and

Page 82

1 ensuring the defendant's return to the custody of the ICTY as necessary.

2 I'll answer as fully as I can any specific questions you have in

3 regard to our capacities and the guarantees that we're able and willing

4 to provide, but since you've asked Your Honour, I'll deal with the

5 specific issues that were raised by the counsel.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, please.

7 MR. ROSSIN: First of all, I'd like to respond with regard to

8 willingness for a second, though, because that was also raised as an

9 issue. I'd like to stress that the Special Representative does read the

10 Resolution to call for a response, a positive response to Tribunal

11 requests whenever that's possible and possibility is a physical fact, not

12 a choice fact. He has various responsibilities under 1244. One of them

13 is the obligation to cooperate with the Tribunal. He also has his

14 Kosovo-specific responsibilities for development and security, and the

15 SRSG myself also believe that all of the elements of the SRSG's mandate

16 under 1244 would be served by offering guarantees in the present case in

17 the capacity I've already described and in the letters he and I have

18 described.

19 There were four limits mentioned by the Prosecution in the

20 presentation: the seriousness of the charges, the limits of UNMIK's

21 capacity to deliver on its commitments, the geography of Kosovo, and the

22 support network that the accused has. With regard to this seriousness of

23 the charges, they are serious charges as --

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Skip that. You were exempted from dealing

25 with matters as the geographical connotation, the seriousness. Deal only

Page 83

1 whether you are in a position to explain what has changed in regards to

2 UNMIK's limited resources then and the support that you could extend to

3 the Tribunal then and now. So deal with that only, please.

4 MR. ROSSIN: Yes, sir, thank you.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: The rest is our business rather -- more than yours.

6 MR. ROSSIN: Thank you, sir. As we've noted in the letter that

7 was sent to the Registrar, the total number of Kosovo police-service

8 officers has doubled roughly since 2003. The number of border police has

9 tripled since 2003. We've created legislative framework not only for

10 boarder control but also for technical surveillance measures of various

11 sorts, and we have the physical capacity to carry out those technical

12 surveillance measures which we did not have in 2003. Those are the

13 capacities that we have in addition to the much improved since 2003

14 internal planning, contingency planning, both within UNMIK police and

15 within KFOR and between KFOR and UNMIK police which we evidenced, for

16 example, in arrangements made at the time that the indictment was issued

17 and delivered to Mr. Haradinaj back in March which fortunately we did not

18 have to implement in any significant measure.

19 With regard to international-police-staffing levels, those are as

20 stated in the letter that was sent from the SRSG to the Registrar. Those

21 are the current international-police-staffing levels of approximately

22 3.000, something just under 3.000.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Still the Prosecution is suggesting that in spite

24 of all this improvement and the staffing, the resources situation has

25 more or less deteriorated which in their opinion would reflect negatively

Page 84

1 on your ability to honour your commitments or any guarantees, fulfil any

2 guarantees that you could be asked to undertake. Could you respond to

3 that please.

4 MR. ROSSIN: Yes, Your Honour. There are slight fluctuations

5 from month to month and I know that the Prosecutor referred to February

6 and March. There are slight fluctuations that take place from

7 month to month in the overall level of crime and perhaps also specific

8 types of crime. It will be known that in March and early April there

9 were a few incidents that looked like they may be politically related

10 relating to the president of Kosovo, to the brother of the Prime

11 Minister, the former Prime Minister in fact, although we have not in fact

12 tracked down what was the he can at nature of those cases at this time

13 and it's not clear that they were politically motivated, from the limited

14 information available to us.

15 But what I would state and what the Special Representative has

16 stated and the Secretary-General has stated in reports to the Council

17 recently is that the overall security level in Kosovo is good. The

18 overall level of crime and violence is extremely low and in fact it's at

19 historic low for Kosovo since 1999 and that while you have month-to-month

20 ups and downs the trend line is fairly constant, Your Honour.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: And could you please respond to the final point

22 raised, namely: What do you have to say regarding the suggestion that

23 you might not be -- when I say you it's UNMIK obviously, the mission --

24 not be with us in 2007, which is the year that is being mentioned both by

25 Defence and Prosecution as the one likely to be when the trial takes

Page 85

1 place.

2 MR. ROSSIN: Yes, Your Honour. The one thing that we're not

3 allowed to have as UNMIK, of all players in Kosovo, is a political

4 crystal ball to predict when and what the final status of Kosovo will be.

5 I think it is a reasonable possibility that by 2007 UNMIK will have been

6 succeeded by some other form of international presence, that there may

7 well have been a final status determination for Kosovo. But that can be

8 cannot be predicted with certainty.

9 What I can say is that the institutions that we're building under

10 the mandate given to this -- to the United Nations and to the special

11 representative are designed to uphold the rule of law and designed to

12 uphold the transparent functioning of government and to the extent that

13 we succeed in that effort Kosovo will inherit a set of institutions that

14 will function in that manner. I don't think it's possible to have a

15 crystal ball to predict what the political situation will be in any of

16 the region, in fact, in two years.

17 I would like to make one point that with regard to the successor

18 security institutions, the Prosecution dwelt at some length on the Kosovo

19 Protection Corps and the Kosovo Police Service as the two. In fact, the

20 Kosovo Protection Corps now has no security role whatsoever in Kosovo.

21 It's a civil-protection, civil-emergency institution. The SRSG has

22 reported to the council in its technical assessments that it's working

23 within that mandate. There is the possibility that the Kosovo Protection

24 Corps, conceivably were Kosovo to become independent might seek to

25 transform might transform into a defence force for Kosovo. I'm not sure

Page 86

1 whether that would be relevant to the question of apprehending Mr.

2 Haradinaj in 2007 were that necessary. But the functioning of the KPC in

3 the interim is really not relevant to the detention, to the surveillance,

4 to whatever of Mr. Haradinaj, sir.


6 MR. ROSSIN: The Kosovo Police Service has grown, as I say. We

7 also believe and our police commissioners who control the KPS, it's not a

8 separate service from the UNMIK police. There's a unitary chain of

9 command under the UNMIK police commissioner.

10 The KPS has improved significantly in capabilities. It's not

11 perfect; it's still formative. My personal judgement having served

12 throughout the region is that it can stand on a par with any other police

13 service in the region at this stage. We are in fact both transferring

14 additional responsibilities to the KPS now and are beginning to move

15 toward formulating a process for the transfer of competency in the

16 justice and police areas, probably finalised around the time that the

17 transfer -- that the final status decision is taken in 1244 is superseded

18 and the movement that we're doing here is based on the judgement by the

19 police commissioner and his expert colleagues that the Kosovo Police

20 Service has improved both in its technical abilities and also in the --

21 if I can say the attitude in which it carries out its functions, the

22 professionalism with which it carries out its functions. The SRSG has a

23 responsibility under 1244 to ensure security and good governance and so

24 forth in Kosovo and no transfer of competency, indeed no transfers of

25 responsibility would take place or would be contemplated were there any

Page 87

1 questioning in the SRSG's mind that he would somehow be abdicating his

2 mandate.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's go into private session for a while, please.

4 [Private session]

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 [Open session]

10 Mr. Emmerson, I can allow you three minutes to respond very

11 briefly on any matter that in your opinion deserves your or our -- your

12 attention.

13 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Is your client wishing too -- Yes, please. Because

15 unfortunately it's not like it is at home. There is a distance between

16 counsel and accused.

17 THE ACCUSED: If in the three minutes I would have a chance to

18 say a word, I would be happy to say, Honoured Judge --

19 JUDGE AGIUS: So he wants to take your place.

20 MR. EMMERSON: I think he wants to --

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Haradinaj. Please go ahead.

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Initially, I would like to say I

23 have shown so far my respect for law, for international law and for

24 International Tribunal. At -- this is my vital determination. That has

25 been my vital determination all along. This is -- this will be the case

Page 88

1 in the future, too, under any circumstances.

2 Never in the past have I influenced in any judicial process.

3 Never have I interfered with any witnesses in the administration of

4 justice or in the public order. On the contrary. In all the

5 circumstances I faced -- I have found myself, I have worked and given

6 evidence for the -- for the establishment of law and order. And this is

7 going to happen in the future under all circumstances.

8 Thank you.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Emmerson. If you want to

10 round it all up, but please restrict yourself to a couple of minutes and

11 not more. The reason is that we need to leave the courtroom for the

12 Limaj case.

13 MR. EMMERSON: I entirely understand and it may be that in due

14 course it will be appropriate and necessary for us to submit some short

15 submission in writing because --

16 JUDGE AGIUS: I think that -- that would be acceptable,

17 particularly since we are expecting this new -- if it's a motion, I don't

18 know what to expect because we have no clue what -- what -- at all. So

19 let's leave it at that.

20 What I would suggest is the following, Mr. Emmerson and Mr.

21 Groome. You are going to file this additional filing today I take it.

22 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, we are filing a motion before another

23 Trial Chamber to seek a variance of an order to allows us to file

24 something. Should -- as soon as that Chamber makes a decision if it

25 allows us to file this additional information we would then do that the

Page 89

1 same day. I do -- it depends on the schedule of the other Trial Chamber.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: May I suggest to you, Mr. Groome, please to try and

3 include in your motion to the other Chamber a request that the usual time

4 limits be dispensed with and -- in other words for the reply by

5 respondent, et cetera -- that all the time limits will be shortened as

6 much as possible so that the decision in this particular case is not

7 delayed unduly.

8 MR. GROOME: I will do that, Your Honour, and further I will file

9 it on an urgent basis.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Thank you. And in the meantime, since

11 certain matters have been raised which have taken also us by surprise and

12 I very much suspect that we will be taken further by surprise as a result

13 of --

14 MR. EMMERSON: I -- I -- Your Honour, I wasn't intending to

15 register an objection, but the fact is that a large number of the

16 submissions that have been made to you by the Office of the Prosecutor

17 today are submissions that we hadn't had advance notice of despite having

18 requested this morning information as to whether there were any other new

19 matters to be raised. And so it is the position that there may be

20 additional written submissions.

21 May I simply make two very, very short points. It had been our

22 position and remains our position that insofar as there may be any

23 request about the transfer of competence within Kosovo from UNMIK to

24 local institutions over time and given that that was indeed -- and in

25 part the acceleration of that has been brought about by the work that Mr.

Page 90

1 Haradinaj did as Prime Minister in the time that he was there, adopting

2 the standards programme of the UN as government policy. But against that

3 background it had been our position and remains our position that plainly

4 the Prosecutor is entitled to seek a variation of any order. If the

5 circumstances should change to the point where guarantees given by UNMIK

6 which at the moment are considered acceptable no longer are considered to

7 be reliable. So that that's the first point.

8 And the second point is this: A number of matters have been

9 raised in relation to the so-called Dukadjin trial, and the way Mr.

10 Groome put it to you until we know what the truth is --

11 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't think you need to dwell on that because I

12 think our legal training and background tells us exactly --

13 MR. EMMERSON: Your Honours can anticipate exactly what it is I'm

14 going to say about that and I wasn't say it in the circumstances.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: And we don't need to dwell on it.

16 Would you be in a position to file written submissions by not

17 later than end of business tomorrow?

18 MR. EMMERSON: Well, certainly, but would Your Honours wish us to

19 deal with whatever it is that may emerge from Mr. Groome's application at

20 this stage or to do so only once that material has been made available?

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, I think I would rather have your

22 submissions --

23 MR. EMMERSON: Very well.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: -- now, leaving the other matter till it needs to be

25 addressed because after all your request might not be acceded to by the

Page 91

1 other Chamber.

2 MR. EMMERSON: Your Honour, may --

3 JUDGE AGIUS: -- for that matter.

4 MR. EMMERSON: I apologise. May I say this decide the obvious

5 disruption that is caused by this issue having been raised in the way

6 that it has, we strongly anticipate, hope and expect that it is matter

7 that goes directly to Mr. Haradinaj.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: I know about it as much as you do, so -- probably

9 even less. So the position is as follows: I'm asking you to file your

10 submissions before anything else so that in the meantime we can take them

11 into consideration in our deliberations in camera. So that's the

12 important thing.

13 Other thing is this: I don't know what the situation will be

14 like in two days from now after this other matter is dealt with. It

15 could well be that we might require again a feedback from UNMIK. We'll

16 decide whether you would need to come back in person or whether it could

17 be dealt with in writing and we'll try to cause the least inconvenience

18 to you and your organisation, the least possible inconvenience I can

19 assure you.

20 The other thing is this, the final thing that has been mentioned

21 about UNMIK not perhaps being in the same position two years from now or

22 in a year and a half's time. That could be dealt with in our decision if

23 we ultimately decide to grant provisional release. So it can be one of

24 the conditions imposed on UNMIK to refer to the Trial Chamber any change

25 in the circumstances which might diminish the extent and the value of the

Page 92

1 guarantees.

2 Having said that, I close this hearing and -- yes. One moment.

3 One --

4 [Trial Chamber confers]

5 JUDGE BRYDENSHOLT: Yes. Probably in your motion you could give

6 a little more details about what you think about participation in

7 political work, what would the limitations be towards the public and

8 newspapers and so on.

9 MR. EMMERSON: Yes, of course. May I make it clear this is

10 something upon which we've already taken instructions and Mr. Haradinaj

11 has indicated that he will abide by whatever restrictions the Court

12 imposes. However, we will make submissions as to what restrictions if

13 any are necessary on political activity, going outside of course any

14 comment in relation to this trial which would be plainly prohibited.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Yes, Judge Eser.

16 JUDGE ESER: I would have a request to the Prosecution. Could

17 you perhaps in your submission tell the Trial Chamber what difference

18 does it make to regard to the protection or endangering of people in

19 Kosovo, whether the accused is here in The Hague or in Kosovo --

20 MR. GROOME: Yes, Your Honour.

21 JUDGE ESER: -- By which grounds the danger can be greater if he

22 would be released to Kosovo.

23 MR. GROOME: Yes, Your Honour, I will.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: And please try to be brief, as brief as possible in

25 your -- okay.

Page 93

1 I thank you all. We stand adjourned. I -- we will decide

2 eventually whether to come back if necessary and hold a further hearing.

3 I don't know, because I don't know what the situation will be after this

4 motion to the other Chamber has been filed. I thank you.

5 --- Whereupon the Motion Hearing adjourned

6 at 2.08 p.m.