Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 22437

 1                           Wednesday, 7 December 2011

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The Accused not present]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.16 a.m.

 5             JUDGE KWON:  Good morning, everyone.  The Chamber has been

 6     informed that Mr. Karadzic is still ill; however, given that the Chamber

 7     hasn't received any official report, it would like to receive a medical

 8     report from the Registry as to the current health situation of the

 9     accused and also as well as as to when he would be able to be back to the

10     courtroom.

11             That said, while the Chamber cannot be composed next week, the

12     Chamber has in mind taking a deposition of certain witnesses, in

13     particular those from -- those experts from Australia or the US by one of

14     the member of the Bench who would be available.  So I'm -- I'd like to

15     inquire to the parties as to its feasibility and possibility or any

16     observations.

17             MR. ROBINSON:  Mr. President, what -- we would hope that

18     Dr. Karadzic would be better tomorrow and that the testimony could be

19     heard before the Trial Chamber, and we would oppose the taking of any

20     depositions because it seems to us that that circumvents Rule 15 bis and

21     it's not intended for that purpose.  So we would prefer that -- we do

22     everything we can to see that the witnesses can testify before the

23     recess, but we would not be in favour of any depositions under those

24     circumstances.

25             JUDGE KWON:  So could you elaborate on the reason why it

Page 22438

 1     circumvents the spirit of 15 bis.  It's a deposition and then -- which is

 2     to be reported back to the Chamber and the Chamber can consider the

 3     situation whether to admit it or not.

 4             MR. ROBINSON:  No, I understand that.  But when the reason for

 5     taking a deposition is the fact that the Bench can't be composed, then it

 6     seems like that's circumventing Rule 15 bis, because Rule 15 bis

 7     basically provides the way to proceed when a Chamber cannot be composed.

 8     And I haven't looked at the deposition rule, but it seems like it

 9     requires some kind of special circumstances or interests of justice, and

10     I don't think that the absence of a member of the Bench would constitute

11     those kind of interests of justice or special circumstances that could

12     justify a deposition.  Normally depositions are justified by the

13     unavailability of the witness or the inability of the witness to either

14     be heard by videolink or to come to The Hague.  So our position would be

15     that that is not -- that a deposition under those circumstances wouldn't

16     be in the interests of justice.

17             JUDGE KWON:  There are certain precedents in the -- at the

18     Tribunal?

19             MR. ROBINSON:  I know it's been done before and I believe it's

20     usually been done without objection, but in this case we do object.

21             JUDGE KWON:  And if you could let us know the availability of the

22     Defence team.

23             MR. ROBINSON:  Only Dr. -- actually, I myself won't be available

24     beginning on Friday morning, but Dr. Karadzic will be here as soon as

25     he's healthy and he's the only one on the Defence team who would be able

Page 22439

 1     to conduct the deposition.

 2             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Mr. Tieger.

 3             MR. TIEGER:  Well, we would, of course, in response to

 4     Mr. Robinson, we want to take the opportunity as quickly as possible to

 5     review the relevant jurisprudence, but we are also aware that depositions

 6     have been conducted in what appear to be similar circumstances.  By way

 7     of logistics, since the Court mentioned the composition of the

 8     Trial Chamber next week, it's probably important for me to note that two

 9     of the experts, Witnesses Lawrence and Haglund, cannot be here next week.

10     So they will be -- they will have to leave by the end of this week in any

11     event.  So that may figure into the Court's calculations in some manner.

12             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you.  And the Chamber will consider the issue

13     and will inform the parties of the result accordingly.

14             There's one matter about which we would like to issue an oral

15     ruling now.  It's related to the Prosecution's application regarding the

16     report on use of time in the trial filed yesterday.  In the application,

17     the Prosecution requests the Trial Chamber to direct the Registry to

18     provide a breakdown of the time calculations for each witness who

19     testified during the 1st to the 30th of November, 2011, and it requests

20     to be allowed to file an application challenging the time used by it

21     within seven days from the receipt of the breakdown of the time

22     calculations.

23             The Chamber hereby grants both requests, orders the Registry to

24     provide the time statistics for November to the Prosecution as soon as

25     practicable and orders the Prosecution to file its challenge within seven

Page 22440

 1     days of the receipt of these time statistics.

 2             And further, I would like the report I referred to earlier today

 3     at the outset of the hearing to be filed hopefully by the end of today.

 4     The hearing is now -- yes, Mr. Tieger.

 5             MR. TIEGER:  One more possibility for consideration and I'm only

 6     throwing it out by way of the potential options of dealing with the

 7     problematic situation we have encountered and that is whether or not the

 8     stand-by counsel can be considered for cross-examination on Thursday and

 9     Friday.  So it, at least, seems worthy of some consideration and I put it

10     out in that spirit.

11             JUDGE KWON:  One final question for you, Mr. Tieger, is if we

12     would be able to sit tomorrow, who will be the witness?

13             MR. TIEGER:  It would be Mr. Riedlmayer, Mr. President.

14             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you.

15             The hearing is now adjourned until tomorrow.

16                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.24 a.m.,

17                           to be reconvened on Thursday, the 8th day of

18                           December, 2011, at 9.00 a.m.