1 Wednesday, 7 December 2011
2 [Open session]
3 [The Accused not present]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.16 a.m.
5 JUDGE KWON: Good morning, everyone. The Chamber has been
6 informed that Mr. Karadzic is still ill; however, given that the Chamber
7 hasn't received any official report, it would like to receive a medical
8 report from the Registry as to the current health situation of the
9 accused and also as well as as to when he would be able to be back to the
11 That said, while the Chamber cannot be composed next week, the
12 Chamber has in mind taking a deposition of certain witnesses, in
13 particular those from -- those experts from Australia or the US by one of
14 the member of the Bench who would be available. So I'm -- I'd like to
15 inquire to the parties as to its feasibility and possibility or any
17 MR. ROBINSON: Mr. President, what -- we would hope that
18 Dr. Karadzic would be better tomorrow and that the testimony could be
19 heard before the Trial Chamber, and we would oppose the taking of any
20 depositions because it seems to us that that circumvents Rule 15 bis and
21 it's not intended for that purpose. So we would prefer that -- we do
22 everything we can to see that the witnesses can testify before the
23 recess, but we would not be in favour of any depositions under those
25 JUDGE KWON: So could you elaborate on the reason why it
1 circumvents the spirit of 15 bis. It's a deposition and then -- which is
2 to be reported back to the Chamber and the Chamber can consider the
3 situation whether to admit it or not.
4 MR. ROBINSON: No, I understand that. But when the reason for
5 taking a deposition is the fact that the Bench can't be composed, then it
6 seems like that's circumventing Rule 15 bis, because Rule 15 bis
7 basically provides the way to proceed when a Chamber cannot be composed.
8 And I haven't looked at the deposition rule, but it seems like it
9 requires some kind of special circumstances or interests of justice, and
10 I don't think that the absence of a member of the Bench would constitute
11 those kind of interests of justice or special circumstances that could
12 justify a deposition. Normally depositions are justified by the
13 unavailability of the witness or the inability of the witness to either
14 be heard by videolink or to come to The Hague. So our position would be
15 that that is not -- that a deposition under those circumstances wouldn't
16 be in the interests of justice.
17 JUDGE KWON: There are certain precedents in the -- at the
19 MR. ROBINSON: I know it's been done before and I believe it's
20 usually been done without objection, but in this case we do object.
21 JUDGE KWON: And if you could let us know the availability of the
22 Defence team.
23 MR. ROBINSON: Only Dr. -- actually, I myself won't be available
24 beginning on Friday morning, but Dr. Karadzic will be here as soon as
25 he's healthy and he's the only one on the Defence team who would be able
1 to conduct the deposition.
2 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Mr. Tieger.
3 MR. TIEGER: Well, we would, of course, in response to
4 Mr. Robinson, we want to take the opportunity as quickly as possible to
5 review the relevant jurisprudence, but we are also aware that depositions
6 have been conducted in what appear to be similar circumstances. By way
7 of logistics, since the Court mentioned the composition of the
8 Trial Chamber next week, it's probably important for me to note that two
9 of the experts, Witnesses Lawrence and Haglund, cannot be here next week.
10 So they will be -- they will have to leave by the end of this week in any
11 event. So that may figure into the Court's calculations in some manner.
12 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. And the Chamber will consider the issue
13 and will inform the parties of the result accordingly.
14 There's one matter about which we would like to issue an oral
15 ruling now. It's related to the Prosecution's application regarding the
16 report on use of time in the trial filed yesterday. In the application,
17 the Prosecution requests the Trial Chamber to direct the Registry to
18 provide a breakdown of the time calculations for each witness who
19 testified during the 1st to the 30th of November, 2011, and it requests
20 to be allowed to file an application challenging the time used by it
21 within seven days from the receipt of the breakdown of the time
23 The Chamber hereby grants both requests, orders the Registry to
24 provide the time statistics for November to the Prosecution as soon as
25 practicable and orders the Prosecution to file its challenge within seven
1 days of the receipt of these time statistics.
2 And further, I would like the report I referred to earlier today
3 at the outset of the hearing to be filed hopefully by the end of today.
4 The hearing is now -- yes, Mr. Tieger.
5 MR. TIEGER: One more possibility for consideration and I'm only
6 throwing it out by way of the potential options of dealing with the
7 problematic situation we have encountered and that is whether or not the
8 stand-by counsel can be considered for cross-examination on Thursday and
9 Friday. So it, at least, seems worthy of some consideration and I put it
10 out in that spirit.
11 JUDGE KWON: One final question for you, Mr. Tieger, is if we
12 would be able to sit tomorrow, who will be the witness?
13 MR. TIEGER: It would be Mr. Riedlmayer, Mr. President.
14 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
15 The hearing is now adjourned until tomorrow.
16 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.24 a.m.,
17 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 8th day of
18 December, 2011, at 9.00 a.m.