Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 12316

1 Tuesday, 19 April 2005

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 9.07 a.m.

5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone in the courtroom and those

6 who are assisting us just outside the courtroom.

7 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number

9 IT-00-39-T, the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Krajisnik.

10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar. Ms. Edgerton, are you

11 ready to continue the examination of the witness?

12 MS. EDGERTON: I am, Your Honour. If I could just have a moment

13 of your time to address you on a scheduling matter.


15 MS. EDGERTON: Before we do that. I'm advised by my colleagues

16 and our staff that the next witness who is scheduled to testify here was

17 only able to arrive here in the country and here in The Hague late last

18 night. She'd had some eye surgery that had prevented her from travelling

19 any earlier and while she has arrived, I understand she's only being

20 proofed at this moment. We've advised Ms. Loukas of this and in my

21 submission, Your Honour, I don't think should Your Honours agree that in

22 the circumstances to allow for sufficient preparation of this witness

23 who's also a victim of sexual assault, in my submission it wouldn't

24 adversely affect our scheduling overall if we were to finish with this

25 witness today and begin the next witness tomorrow morning, especially

Page 12317

1 given her absolutely late arrival time.


3 Ms. Loukas.

4 MS. LOUKAS: Yes, Your Honour, just prior to Your Honours coming

5 on the Bench, Ms. Edgerton raised that issue with me and I certainly

6 don't have a problem with commencing the witness tomorrow morning and

7 ending today's proceedings once the current witness has finished giving

8 her evidence.

9 [Trial Chamber confers]

10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, Ms. Edgerton, given these specific

11 circumstances now, eye surgery you mentioned, the Chamber agrees; we will

12 allow you to commence the next witness tomorrow morning. At the same

13 time, I would like to make the observation that even if it would not

14 disturb your scheduling on the short term, you should keep in mind, the

15 OTP should keep in mind that it's not only this week and next week we are

16 dealing with but we are also heading for concluding the Prosecution's

17 case and of course in the long term, it could have some influence. And I

18 want you to keep that clearly in mind.

19 Madam Usher, could you escort the witness into the courtroom.

20 MS. LOUKAS: Your Honour, while the witness is being brought

21 in --


23 MS. LOUKAS: -- I might indicate that I have -- Mr. Karganovic is

24 outside the court is in the Defence room attending to some matters but he

25 will be coming into the courtroom in perhaps 10 to 15 minutes. Sometimes

Page 12318

1 there seem to be problems with allowing people in after the session has

2 started and I just wanted to ensure that there's no problem with Mr.

3 Karganovic coming in after the session has begun.

4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. What would you like me to do?

5 MS. LOUKAS: Nothing, Your Honour, I think I'm basically

6 informing the Trial Chamber so that the people outside the courtroom can

7 hear that and ensure that Mr. Karganovic has safe passage into the

8 courtroom.

9 JUDGE ORIE: The Chamber has no problem in Mr. Karganovic

10 entering the courtroom when we have started. I don't know whether

11 everyone is really listening in such detail, but perhaps Madam Registrar,

12 you could inform security that there's no problem as far as the Chamber

13 is concerned.

14 MS. LOUKAS: Thank you, Your Honour, for that.

15 [The witness entered court]

16 WITNESS: WITNESS 84 [Resumed]

17 [Witness answered through interpreter]

18 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning, Witness 84. May I first remind you

19 that you are still bound by the solemn declaration you have given at the

20 beginning of your testimony.

21 Before, Ms. Edgerton, I give you the opportunity to continue the

22 examination, I'd like to consult the registrar.

23 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

24 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed, Ms. Edgerton.

25 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

Page 12319

1 MS. EDGERTON: -- before we begin to make sure that we remain in

2 private session at this point.

3 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session.

4 MS. EDGERTON: Could we then move into private session, please.

5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, we will move into private session.

6 [Private session]

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 12320











11 Pages 12320-12358 redacted. Private session.















Page 12359

1 [Open session]

2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, we are in open session again.

3 Witness 84, I'd like to thank you very much for coming to The

4 Hague and to testify on matters that certainly were painful for you. We

5 have observed that, and we perhaps therefore even more appreciate than on

6 average that you came, that you answered the questions of the parties and

7 of the Bench. I wish you all the best for the future, and I wish you a

8 safe trip home again.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I wish to thank you for showing

10 great consideration for me and the fact that the Defence decided not to

11 cross-examine me. Given what I have been through and what I have

12 experienced, it is difficult to go back to that. Thank you.

13 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you very much.

14 Madam Usher, could you please escort Witness 84 out of the

15 courtroom.

16 [The witness withdrew]

17 MS. LOUKAS: Your Honour, I might indicate now that the witness

18 has gone, there are three matters I wish to place on the record.

19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, please do so. It can be done in open session,

20 Ms. Loukas?

21 MS. LOUKAS: Yes, I think it should be done in open session.

22 Firstly, Your Honour will note that I, of course, did not cross-examine

23 the witness other than when Your Honour decided to ask more questions and

24 certain issues arose as a result. But -- and I also understand the

25 approach that Ms. Edgerton has adopted with the witness and I think it's

Page 12360

1 also very important for the witness to be able to contribute to the

2 process before the Court.

3 But at the same time, Your Honour, when we are dealing with

4 evidence of this nature, it's of a particular emotional overload for all

5 concerned and it is in a situation where my client, Mr. Krajisnik, could

6 not possibly be found under any heading of vicarious liability or

7 otherwise guilty of opportunistic incidents of this nature; that, Your

8 Honour, I put a marker there as to the nature and extent of the evidence

9 being called by the Prosecution and I submit that Your Honour should give

10 some guidance to the Prosecution generally in relation to these issues.

11 I leave Ms. Edgerton out of this because ultimately she's not responsible

12 for the Prosecution policy in relation to this case. But Your Honour

13 often speaks of time constraints and it seems to me that a lot of the

14 additional information was simply not germane to the issues that Your

15 Honours are dealing with in this case and could not be germane.

16 In those circumstances, Your Honour, I think it's appropriate for

17 the Trial Chamber to give the Prosecution some guidance particularly in

18 relation to matters of this nature. And as I indicated, I understand

19 completely the approach that Ms. Edgerton has adopted with this

20 particular witness and I understand particularly the witness's need to

21 speak about her experiences. But at the same time, in relation to the

22 issues that are before the Trial Chamber, some discretion and some

23 balance must be reached particularly in circumstances where Your Honour

24 is constantly talking about our problems with time. That's the first

25 point I place on the table.

Page 12361

1 The second point is this, Your Honour, and this is a matter I've

2 raised ...

3 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Loukas, what do you have in mind? Do you have

4 in mind irrelevant questions or do you have in mind questions concerning

5 how matters developed in Grbavica in more general terms rather than

6 specifically in relation to what happened to this witness in her direct

7 contacts with the person she mentioned? It's not entirely clear whether

8 you are -- I mean for example, let me say, are you talking about the

9 relevance of the question where the bread came from, where the bakery was

10 on the one side of the river or the other side or -- is it that kind of

11 matters or is it about the witness staying in Grbavica for perhaps a

12 relatively long period of time and experiencing on whether they were free

13 to leave or -- it's not entirely clear to me.

14 MS. LOUKAS: Well I think Your Honour gave a very fine example in

15 that first aspect of the sort of thing that quite frankly does not assist

16 the Trial Chamber and particularly in circumstances where Your Honour is

17 quite intensely curtailing the time available to the Defence when we are

18 questioning.

19 JUDGE ORIE: You are now repeating. But it's clear to me you say

20 a lot of irrelevant stuff was asked to the witness.

21 MS. LOUKAS: Absolute he Your Honour, and I think that's quite

22 clear to everyone in the courtroom.


24 MS. LOUKAS: Now that's the first point. The second point is

25 this, Your Honour. Your Honour, I've placed on the record before and

Page 12362

1 this is in relation to Your Honour's leading questions to witnesses.

2 Now, I understand it's a hybrid system; I understand that we're dealing

3 with a situation whereby in this hybrid that has been created here that

4 Your Honours are a lot more interventionist with witnesses. But -- and I

5 understand Your Honours consider that it is in only in exceptional

6 circumstances that objection can be taken to leading questions from a

7 Judge. But at the same time, Your Honour, and I've made this point

8 before: Leading questions on critical areas, and particularly of the

9 generalist nature that Your Honour offered to the witness in relation to

10 uniforms, when Ms. Edgerton had painstakingly taken the witness through

11 in detail in relation to uniforms and then to try to wrap up the question

12 up in a leading way, in a generalised form about the nature of the

13 uniforms, Your Honour, in a leading format, I would submit is not

14 appropriate. That's the second matter I place on the record.

15 Thirdly, Your Honour, on a number of occasions with the last two

16 witnesses specifically, but prior to this as well -- this is 503 and 073

17 I'm talking about, not in relation to this witness because I didn't need

18 to cross-examine to any real extent other than following upon Your

19 Honour's leading questions. Now I'm entitled as an advocate, Your

20 Honour, to secure my client's position in cross-examination by closing

21 doors or closing gates, as Your Honour has referred to it and as I refer

22 to it as well. As is implicit in that comment, Your Honour, in that

23 description, that is seeking to ensure that the witness - and I'm not

24 talking about the last witness, I'm talking about the two witnesses

25 before that - cannot avoid the consequences of their answer by saying --

Page 12363

1 by coming up with "I was never asked about that," when it was quite

2 clearly an area that he they would have been asked about, or "It must

3 have been the translators" or "I didn't check."

4 Now, Your Honour, unless Your Honour allows, and this is with the

5 greatest of respect, Your Honour, the effect of what Your Honour is doing

6 by precluding cross-examination by saying, "Look, this is just closing

7 gates, we know where you're going Ms. Loukas and we are professional

8 judges and we'll assess the escape route," what happens, Your Honour, in

9 reality, is that Your Honour is providing witnesses with escape hatches

10 that they accept with alacrity. And with the greatest of respect, Your

11 Honour, I must place this on the record because this approach to

12 cross-examination by Your Honour is contrary, in my submission, to

13 procedural fairness and I implore Your Honour not to do it. And I place

14 that very clearly on the record should this matter come to the appeal

15 stage, firstly; and secondly, -- yes.

16 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Loukas, if it's on the record, it's available to

17 the Appeals Chamber. That needs no explanation. If there's anything

18 else you'd like to say.

19 MS. LOUKAS: No, those are the three points. Firstly in relation

20 to the question of the last witness, and I dealt with that; second, in

21 relation to Your Honour's leading questions to witnesses; and thirdly, in

22 relation to this question of cross-examination. While Your Honour, we

23 all have to adjust our approaches in terms of the hybrid between the

24 civil law and the common law, we cannot end up with a situation whereby

25 we take the worst of both systems and end up the protections of neither.

Page 12364

1 And additionally, if one looks at overall in terms of the

2 question of human rights, Your Honour, the human rights of the accused

3 are part of what the court is here to protect, of course. And Your

4 Honours are very well aware of that. But I need to place these things on

5 the record because the leading questions from Your Honours and the

6 interference with cross-examination and my submissions in relation to

7 those matters must be placed on the record.

8 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Ms. Loukas. I'll not extensively comment

9 on it. It's not my recollection that I put any question to the witness

10 in relation to uniforms apart from when, in one of her answers, she

11 referred to uniforms herself. That's one.

12 The second issue is about relevant and irrelevant questions. The

13 Chamber regretfully has to agree with you to some extent what the

14 location of the bakery was, a specific question; whether two, three, or

15 four guards would do a search; whether that was on weekends or during

16 weekdays; what exactly the location of the building or certain building

17 was, if there is no follow-up; what exactly the stove would be if there

18 is no electricity. These are just examples of questions that really do

19 not assist in any way, whether it's wood or whether it would be petrol in

20 the stove. It was clear from the witness that it would be due to lack of

21 electricity that they had to rely on other sources of heating. It's not

22 dramatic but since Ms. Loukas raised the issue and since I did write a

23 few examples for myself, I just bring it to the attention of the Office

24 of the Prosecution.

25 Finally, I have to apologise for not well reading, perhaps, the

Page 12365












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.













Page 12366

1 transcript of yesterday. I said this morning you were talking about four

2 days giving statements. What you said, actually, I reread it, is that

3 you said on three days in 1996 and two days in 1997 which I more

4 favourably could have read as three days in 1996 and two days in 1997 and

5 if I would have read it immediately that way, there would have been no

6 reason to make any -- to put any question or to make any comment in that

7 respect.

8 Yes, Ms. Edgerton.

9 MS. EDGERTON: Your Honour, as was the case with the witness

10 yesterday, following the conclusion of their testimony, I am at this

11 point going to be offering a number of contextual documents again.


13 MS. EDGERTON: And I must say I've had a personal hand in it and

14 I find our house to be in order this morning.

15 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar, I take it that you have received

16 them.

17 Ms. Edgerton, would you please tell us what contextual documents

18 you offered apart from the statements of the witness which have not yet

19 been assigned an exhibit number as far as I remember because of the

20 confusion in numbering.

21 MS. EDGERTON: I'll deal first with the documents which have not

22 previously been admitted as exhibits and then move to those which already

23 have an exhibit number.


25 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

Page 12367

1 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar will guide us through it. I

2 wondered whether there would be any way of presenting these documents

3 perhaps in the beginning of the testimony of a witness because if there

4 is any relevant information in it which would raise any questions, it's

5 too late now. And especially since they are presented as contextual but

6 we'll consider that and perhaps Defence and Prosecution could think about

7 whether they could come to a common view on that and the Chamber will

8 think about it as well.

9 Madam Registrar.

10 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P608, pseudonym sheet under seal.

11 Exhibit P609, witness statement dated 17 February 1996 under

12 seal.

13 P610, witness statement dated 03/12/1996, 24/06/1997, and

14 27/06/1997, under seal.

15 P611, supplementary information report dated 16 April 2005, under

16 seal.

17 P612, map of Grbavica and surrounding area marked by witness,

18 under seal.

19 P613, order of the Serbian municipality of Novo Sarajevo Crisis

20 Staff dated 22 April 1992.

21 P614, message from Ingeborg to Thornberry on ethnic cleansing in

22 Sarajevo dated 30 September 1992.

23 P615, press report entitled "Serb official denies claims of

24 ethnic cleansing."

25 P616, press report entitled, "Serb leader reacts to imprisonment

Page 12368

1 of families" dated 08/10/1992.

2 P617, correspondence from Morillon to Karadzic dated 01 October

3 1992.

4 P618, report on operation of Novo Sarajevo from 01 April 1992 to

5 25 December 1992.

6 P619, letter from Momcilo Krajisnik to Lord Carrington and others

7 dated 27 May 1992.

8 P620, letter by Momcilo Krajisnik addressed to Lord Carrington

9 and others dated 28 May 1992.

10 P621, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Krajisnik

11 and Karadzic. P621A, transcript.

12 P622, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Zarko

13 Djurovic and Radovan Karadzic. P622A, transcript.

14 P623, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Zoka and

15 Momo Garic. P623A, transcript.

16 P624, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Kaca Ducic

17 and Branislav Gavrilovic dated 21 April 1992. P624A, transcript.

18 P625, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Krajisnik

19 and unidentified male dated 21 April 1992. P625 A, transcript.

20 P626, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Branko

21 Djeric and Milenko Karisik dated 07/05/1992 and P626A, transcript.

22 P627, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Momcilo

23 Krajisnik and Karlo dated 07 May 1992 and P627A, transcript.

24 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.

25 MS. LOUKAS: Your Honour, just in relation to the question of the

Page 12369

1 exhibits, clearly these contextual documents that Ms. Edgerton has

2 referred to, obviously I don't have objections to matters -- to documents

3 and what have you that are already in evidence. But I'm going to need

4 the opportunity to go through the other documents that have just been

5 referred to.

6 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I do understand that. Therefore, the Chamber

7 upon your request will reconsider whether this material should be

8 admitted into evidence. We have now the problem the numbers are assigned

9 so they are provisionally admitted. But we'll wait, let's say for the

10 next 14 days, if there's any -- or if you would say I would need three

11 weeks then.

12 MS. LOUKAS: Well Your Honour perhaps a bit longer because I'm

13 actually dealing with ...

14 JUDGE ORIE: How much time would you need?

15 MS. LOUKAS: All the witnesses this week and next so once I get

16 out of court next week I can probably sit down and go through this lot of

17 documents. So perhaps I think Your Honour's initial invitation for 14

18 days may be adequate.

19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. So then if we do not hear from you within the

20 next 14 days, and let's then extend that -- that would be in the middle

21 of the week we're not sitting. So let's say if not by Monday, the -- I

22 think it's the 8th or the 9th, I'm not quite sure -- so if we will not

23 hear by Monday in the first week after the short break, we have not heard

24 from you, then the admission has become final and if we hear from you,

25 we'll consider any objections.

Page 12370

1 MS. LOUKAS: Yes, Thank you, Your Honour.

2 I think that does leave some outstanding matters in relation to

3 not the last witness specifically but the previous two witnesses and that

4 is that Ms. Edgerton and I need to come to some agreement about what

5 aspect of the cross-examination can go back into open session in relation

6 to 073. And I also think there's -- I've made two applications to strike

7 evidence in relation to 073. So we still have those matters outstanding

8 and they will have to be dealt with probably in the next two weeks we

9 have in court.

10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, the first matter the Chamber, of course, would

11 like to hear the results of your conversations with Ms. Edgerton. On the

12 second, we are working. We are working on that.

13 MS. LOUKAS: If Your Honour pleases.


15 MS. EDGERTON: I'm sorry, Your Honour, but with respect to these

16 contextual documents there is an additional small number that I'd like to

17 refer to on the record by their exhibit number which have previously been

18 entered into exhibits, if I may, and --

19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, please do so and do it slowly so that we get

20 the correct numbers on the transcript.

21 MS. EDGERTON: Yes. Madam Registrar, is it -- can I go ahead or

22 will you do it?

23 JUDGE ORIE: They are on the list -- yes. I have full confidence

24 if in you, Ms. Edgerton, but in this respect, even more in Madam

25 Registrar.

Page 12371

1 MS. EDGERTON: Rightly so.

2 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar.

3 MS. EDGERTON: While we're dealing with this, Your Honour, I

4 would note that these documents are not necessarily specific to the

5 witness who's just testified but relate to what would have been included

6 in the Novo Sarajevo dossier, generally, they've already been selected

7 for that dossier and in that sense are also relevant contextual documents

8 for the witness who is to come tomorrow.

9 MS. LOUKAS: Your Honour, what procedure is about to be adopted

10 in relation to these?

11 JUDGE ORIE: I do understand that it is evidence that is already

12 admitted and that Ms. Edgerton mainly wants to draw our attention that it

13 is relevant for the municipality of Novo Sarajevo and that she

14 specifically draws our attention to it in relation to the witness who

15 testified today and yesterday and the witness who will testify tomorrow.

16 So it's --

17 MS. LOUKAS: Procedurally, Your Honour, I'm just wondering is

18 Madam Registrar about to read out the numbers.

19 JUDGE ORIE: I take it, that's what I'm going to -- I write down

20 in these documents, "Already in evidence as" and then Madam Registrar

21 will tell us under what number they were admitted.

22 MS. LOUKAS: I see, Your Honour. If those circumstances, I have

23 an urgent matter to attend to. Can I just whilst Madam Registrar is

24 reading out the numbers, can I just leave the court for two minutes?

25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I don't know whether you still find us when you

Page 12372

1 are back, but please feel free to leave and I take it that you have no

2 other matters to be raised.

3 MS. LOUKAS: No, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE ORIE: If Ms. Edgerton doesn't have any other matters to be

5 raised, then I take it that you could copy the list and of course you are

6 welcome to come back.

7 MS. LOUKAS: Your Honour, I will be coming back. I have a very

8 urgent matter to attend to right at this time and I will be back in two

9 minutes.

10 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. We'll see you back. Madam Registrar.

11 [Defence counsel leaves court]

12 JUDGE ORIE: I now better understand that they were admitted but

13 we had never yet received them.

14 MS. EDGERTON: You're referring to yesterday's materials and I

15 have in mind the materials not yet addressed for today which have already

16 been admitted. I do need to refer to them on the record.

17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Could we go in the following order we see

18 them. Telephone intercept 7 March 1992.

19 So we didn't receive any copies on the documents you would like

20 to put on the record. So I earlier expressed my confidence in you, Ms.

21 Edgerton. Please proceed slowly reading the numbers.

22 MS. EDGERTON: Yes, Your Honour. To -- with respect to the

23 contextual documents from Novo Sarajevo municipality, the Prosecution

24 would also like to direct Your Honours's attention to exhibits which have

25 been previously filed before the Trial Chamber and received the following

Page 12373

1 numbers: The first being P529, tab 158 described as a report from

2 Neskovic, president of Crisis Staff Novo Sarajevo to the president of the

3 Presidency of the Serbian Republic of BiH dated 5 June 1992. That's

4 P529, tab 158.

5 The second has several numbers, I see. Second is P64A, P154A and

6 B, and P292. That is an intercepted telephone conversation between

7 Krajisnik Momcilo and Karadzic Radovan dated 1 January 1992, transcript

8 and CD.

9 The third presently has the number -- the numbers P67, that's 67,

10 tab 30, and P292. And that's an intercepted telephone conversation

11 between Krajisnik Momcilo, Koljevic Nikola, Ninkovic Radomir and Karasik

12 Milenko dated 21 April 1992.

13 The fourth is also bearing the number P292, and that's an

14 intercepted telephone conversation between Vojislav Seselj and Branislav

15 Gavrilovic dated 21 April 1992.

16 The next presently bears the number P460 and 460A and 460A.1,

17 being the numbers for the CD English transcript and B/C/S transcript.

18 And that's an intercepted telephone conversation between Mandic Momcilo

19 and Igor, also dated 21 April 1992.

20 The last also bears the number P292. And it's an intercepted

21 telephone conversation between Milenkovic and Krajisnik Momcilo also from

22 21 April 1992.

23 Pardon me, I skipped over a note to myself. It's not the last,

24 but it's the last but one. Finally, P273 and 273.1, 19 July 1992 being a

25 letter to several Serbian municipalities signed by Radovan Karadzic.

Page 12374

1 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I'm just asking myself whether P292 has several

2 tabs or KID numbers because we have got now only in this short series

3 already three at least.

4 MS. EDGERTON: It has several tabs and I can -- and KID numbers,

5 I see, on the list.

6 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Could you provide them to Madam Registrar who

7 will then include them in the list to be -- no, this is just for the

8 record, so they would not be on the list. If you would be so kind to

9 provide to the Defence and to the Chamber this list and then adding the

10 KID numbers so that what is on the record now is I think clear enough,

11 could not lead to any confusion but just for our assistance, it would be

12 helpful if it would have the tab or KID numbers.

13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, Ms. Loukas, this is material that's already

14 admitted into evidence and you get the further specifics from Ms.

15 Edgerton.

16 MS. LOUKAS: Yes, Thank you, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then -- and that was my confusion, we also

18 have some contextual documents in relation to the last witness and since

19 numbering now is no problem anymore, I'd like to ask Madam Registrar to

20 guide us.

21 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

22 JUDGE ORIE: Since there was some confusion about the numbering,

23 Madam Registrar will start from the beginning from the last witness so

24 that there would be no further confusion.

25 THE REGISTRAR: P592, map of Vogosca and surrounding area.

Page 12375

1 P593, pseudonym sheet, under seal.

2 P594, CD of intercepted conversation, under seal.

3 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

4 THE REGISTRAR: P594 is dated 07/09/1991. P594A transcript,

5 under seal.

6 P595 intercepted telephone conversation dated 11/09/1991, under

7 seal, and P595A, transcript, under seal.

8 P596, CD of intercepted telephone conversation dated 12/09/1991.

9 P596A, under seal, transcript.

10 P597, CD intercepted telephone conversation dated 23/09/1991,

11 under seal. And P597A, transcript, under seal.

12 P598, CD intercepted telephone conversation between Jovan Tintor

13 and Ratko Adzic dated 14/10/1991. P598A, transcript.

14 P599, CD intercepted telephone conversation between Jovan Tintor

15 and Rajko Koprivica dated 08/01/1992. P599A, transcript.

16 P600, CD of telephone conversation intercepted between Jovan

17 Tintor and Zika dated 07/03/1992. P600A, transcript.

18 P601, CD intercepted telephone conversation between Demilo

19 Veselinovic and Jovan Tintor dated 06/04/1992 and P601A, transcript.

20 P602, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Momcilo

21 Mandic and Kukanjac dated 18 April 1992. P602A, transcript.

22 P603, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Vukota

23 Vukovic and Momcilo Mandic dated 18/04/1992 and P603A, transcript.

24 P604, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Rajko

25 Koprivica and Momcilo Mandic dated 18 April 1992. P604A, transcript.

Page 12376

1 P605, CD of intercepted telephone conversation between Rajko

2 Koprivica and Momcilo Mandic dated 19 April 1992. And P605A, transcript.

3 P606, order from the Serbian Municipal Assembly of Vogosca crisis

4 headquarters signed by Slavko Jovanovic on behalf of President Jovan

5 Tintor dated 02/05/1992. P606.1, English translation.

6 Finally, P607, order of the Serb Republic of BH Vogosca Serb

7 municipality Crisis Staff signed by commander Jovan Tintor dated 14 May

8 1992, and P607.1 is the English translation.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.

10 Just for my orientation, what are the contextual documents, what

11 numbers are they? Is it on from P600 upwards? Because, Ms. Loukas,

12 these are the contextual documents on which you might want to further

13 consider --

14 MS. LOUKAS: Indeed, Your Honour.

15 JUDGE ORIE: -- whether or not to object.

16 MS. LOUKAS: Thank you, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE ORIE: Could we do that in the same question, that they are

18 provisionally admitted unless we hear from you until that same Monday

19 that I just mentioned, that's the Monday after the week of non-sitting.

20 MS. LOUKAS: I think that's the week commencing the 2nd of May,

21 as I recall.

22 JUDGE ORIE: The week we are not sitting is the week commencing

23 the 2nd of May. As a matter of fact we are not sitting on from the -- I

24 think from the 29th of April which is the birthday of the Dutch Queen.

25 MS. LOUKAS: Indeed, Your Honour, Queen's Day.

Page 12377

1 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, Ms. Edgerton.

2 MS. EDGERTON: With respect to the intercepts contained in that

3 range from CD 600, those were intercepts which, Your Honour, we had

4 previously marked to be played to that witness, KRAJ 073. And taking

5 into account there was no objection to the voice identification, move

6 them into this category, if we can call that, of contextual documents.

7 JUDGE ORIE: I can imagine that objections against telephone

8 conversation, especially if it's already clear that the identity of the

9 interlocutors is not already in dispute might cause less problems.

10 MS. LOUKAS: Indeed, Your Honour.

11 JUDGE ORIE: Any other thing to be raised?

12 If not, we'll adjourn until tomorrow in the afternoon, quarter

13 past 2.00, same courtroom. Is that correct? Yes.

14 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.19 p.m.

15 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 20th day of

16 April, 2005, at 2.15 p.m.