Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 9277

1 Tuesday, 3 April 2001

2 [Open session]

3 [The witness entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 2.05 p.m.

5 [The accused entered court]

6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Good afternoon all, to the

7 technical booth, the interpreters, the registry staff, the counsel for the

8 Prosecution and for the Defence. Good afternoon, General Krstic.

9 As you see, we are sitting without Judge Fouad Riad who had a

10 medical appointment so he was unable to join us. So Judge Wald and

11 myself, we decided to sit in accordance with Rule 15 bis. I think that we

12 were about to complete the cross-examination of our witness.

13 Let me remind you once again that you are still testifying under

14 oath and I will give the floor to Mr. Harmon to complete your

15 cross-examination please.

16 MR. HARMON: Good afternoon Judge Rodrigues, Judge Wald. Good

17 afternoon counsel.


19 [Witness answered through interpreter]

20 Cross-examined by Mr. Harmon [Continued]

21 Q. DB, good afternoon.

22 You testified that you moved the communications vehicle from the

23 forward command post at Pribicevac at approximately 1900 hours on the 11th

24 of July, and in your previous testimony, you testified that you did so

25 unilaterally without an order from either General Krstic or General

Page 9278

1 Mladic. Do you remember that testimony?

2 A. Yes, I remember having said that I don't know whether one of them

3 had given me the order but that most probably, based upon my own

4 judgement, I moved the communications centre.

5 Q. Let me clarify what you did say, because what you have just said

6 is a little different. I will refer you to the transcript at page 7257,

7 lines starting at line 25 and going over to 7258 lines 1 through 3.

8 At 7257, line 25 you were asked this question by me on the 8th of

9 November 2000:

10 Q. Did you receive an order from either General Krstic or

11 General Mladic to pack up the mobile communications centre and

12 proceed to Bratunac?

13 A. I did not get such an order.

14 On page 7263, I'm referring to that page lines 13 through 18. I

15 asked you the question:

16 Q. Let me repeat my question to you, Witness DB. Did you

17 receive an order to dismantle the communications centre of the

18 forward command post from either General Krstic or General

19 Mladic.

20 A. No.

21 Q. And is it your testimony that you unilaterally made that

22 decision?

23 A. Yes.

24 Now, is it your testimony today that you may have received that

25 order but you don't remember that?

Page 9279

1 A. I think I did not receive that order and that on the basis of my

2 own judgement of the situation, I packed up the centre and moved it.

3 Q. Now, who was the Commander of the Drina Corps on the 11th of July,

4 1995?

5 A. I think it was General Zivanovic.

6 Q. Did you receive an order from General Zivanovic to move the

7 communications centre of the forward command post at Pribicevac?

8 A. No.

9 MR. HARMON: Could the witness please be provided with Prosecution

10 Exhibit 402, tab 4. Mr. Usher, if you could place -- I could show you the

11 English version of which page to place in just a minute.

12 Q. But Witness, 402, tab 4, the exhibit in front of you is "The Rules

13 of the Corps of the Ground Forces Provisional" dated 1990, and rules which

14 General Krstic said in his testimony were operative and applied to the

15 VRS.

16 MR. HARMON: Now, Mr. Usher, if you could kindly place the page 38

17 of that version, the English version and what should be your first tab on

18 the ELMO.

19 Q. And Witness, I'm going to refer you to a portion of this document.

20 It has been tabbed for your convenience, and if you turn to the first tab,

21 please, in that document, it should be tabbed in the B/C/S version. It

22 should be a blue tab on the document. If you would turn to the portion

23 that deals with the command posts, and specifically -- let me ask you,

24 Witness, are you familiar with these rules?

25 A. I think that everything that is contained in these rules was

Page 9280

1 studied by me as well, though I was never Corps Commander.

2 Q. Now, I'd like to draw your attention, please, Witness, to

3 paragraph 129 of these rules which falls in the section dealing with

4 command posts, and if you would take a look at and read to yourself

5 paragraph 129, I will read it in English while you're looking at it in the

6 B/C/S. "The command moves from one command post to another following the

7 plan or in emergency, but always by decision of the Commander and with the

8 approval of the senior officer. The time of the move is notified to

9 directly subordinated commands, the headquarters of Territorial Defence,

10 neighbours, and, as required, bodies of socio-political communities and

11 organisations."

12 Now, this particular section, Witness DB, deals with command posts

13 being of three types: principal command posts, logistical command posts,

14 and forward command posts. Could you turn -- have you had a chance to

15 read that section, Witness?

16 A. Yes, I've read point 129.

17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. Petrusic.

18 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Defence objects

19 to this question. It is my impression that the Prosecutor is going beyond

20 the scope of the examination-in-chief and also the testimony of this

21 witness in the rejoinder case, simply because it is entering into the

22 rules and responsibilities and the organisational structure of the army of

23 Republika Srpska with respect to reporting of the command post and forward

24 command post.

25 The main question here is whether the command post on the 11th of

Page 9281

1 July, as testified by the witness, was operational after 1900 hours or

2 not. Whether it was dismantled in accordance with the rules of the corps

3 of the ground forces of the former SFRY or not is a question which this

4 witness could answer if asked by an investigator within his organisation,

5 and I do not see that that fits into the purpose of the proceedings here.

6 Therefore, this whole series of questions being put by my learned friend

7 we are objecting to.

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Harmon.

9 MR. HARMON: Mr. President, this witness testified about the move

10 of the communications centre and the forward command post on a certain

11 date, at a certain time, and under certain conditions. I intend to direct

12 his attention to rules that apply to the movement of communication

13 centres. I've only directed his attention to the first of two provisions

14 in this, but I'd like to direct his attention to -- and will have bearing

15 on the question of who he received an order from and when he received that

16 order to move the communications centre. That's the relevance of it.

17 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] I beg your pardon, Mr. President.

18 May I respond? If that is the subject, if that is the question, then the

19 witness has answered that question on the 8th of November and also today.

20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Petrusic, there seems to be

21 two points that you have raised: the scope of the cross-examination. As

22 you know, we have adopted a rather flexible interpretation of the rules

23 with respect to the scope of the cross-examination in relation to the

24 examination-in-chief. The other point that you raise, what I think is

25 that Mr. Harmon has -- is confronting the witness with a statement that he

Page 9282

1 himself transferred the communications centre. So Mr. Harmon is trying to

2 see whether he respected the rules or not which the witness should have

3 known. Therefore, I'm going to ask Mr. Harmon to continue with his

4 questions, Mr. Petrusic.

5 Please proceed.


7 Q. Witness DB, if that -- I would like that -- strike that. I would

8 now like to direct your attention to the second blue tab that is in the

9 package of materials in front of you. It falls within the same section

10 and is part of provision 129.

11 MR. HARMON: And if you, Mr. Usher, could place that section on

12 the ELMO.

13 Q. Would you read to yourself the section that has been tabbed,

14 Witness DB. Have you had a chance to read that?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Let me read this into the record, the portion that I'm referring

17 to: "Communications centres are dislocated in keeping with the

18 dislocation of the command while securing uninterrupted communications."

19 Now, these rules, this rule 129, puts forth two propositions:

20 One, the command can only move based on the decision of the commander; and

21 second of all, that communication centres are dislocated in keeping with

22 the dislocation of the command.

23 Witness, let me ask you again: Did you receive an order from

24 General Zivanovic, General Krstic or General Mladic to dislocate the

25 communications centre of the forward command post of Pribicevac?

Page 9283

1 A. In the execution of our orders, there is a principle known as

2 self-initiative. It implies that one may take upon oneself responsibility

3 for certain acts and procedures which perhaps may not be fully in accord

4 with the rules and regulations as they are stipulated here. On that date

5 and at that time, in accordance with the evolution of the combat

6 situation, both my Commander and Chief of Staff had left the forward

7 command post. They had gone forward following combat operations and all

8 that remained of the forward command centre was the communications

9 centre.

10 A command post is an all-embracing concept including many elements

11 of which the communications centre is one only. I did have uninterrupted

12 communications because a soldier with a mobile device was in the command

13 vehicle of General Krstic whereby uninterrupted communications was

14 guaranteed. However, as there was no one left at the forward command post

15 because of the very rapid development on the front line, everyone else had

16 gone forward so that means all of the other elements of the command post.

17 I gave myself the right to make my own judgement. Instead of

18 staying behind and spending the night there alone with five soldiers, I

19 followed the combat formations which were changing rapidly in accordance

20 with the offensive as it developed. So that I think that with respect to

21 the transfer of the communications centre, I did not receive orders from

22 anyone. I took the decision on the basis of my own judgement, and I

23 explained this in detail to the investigator Ruez, and to you during my

24 previous testimony.

25 I find this to be quite normal and customary as I had been left

Page 9284

1 behind with five or six soldiers whereas everyone else had gone on

2 forward.

3 Q. At the time you left the Pribicevac area, Obrad Vicic was present,

4 wasn't he?

5 A. No. I don't know whether you are trying to mislead me. I told

6 you last time that Colonel Vicic and Lieutenant Colonel Kosoric were not

7 present. They had left the forward command post either before or just

8 after General Krstic. All I know is that they were not there. I think

9 that I have just given you an identical answer to what I gave during my

10 previous testimony.

11 Q. And are you aware, Witness DB, that General Krstic said that on

12 the 11th of July at approximately 8.00 p.m., he was at the forward command

13 post in Pribicevac and present at that location were Obrad Vicic, his

14 operations officer, Lieutenant Amovic, and Lieutenant Colonel Kosoric.

15 Are you aware of that testimony?

16 A. I am not aware of that testimony.

17 MR. HARMON: Your Honours, I would direct Your Honours' attention,

18 I won't read that now, but I would direct Your Honours' attention now to

19 General Krstic's testimony, pages 6195 to 6215, and you'll find in the

20 testimony those -- that information that I've just revealed to Witness

21 DB.

22 Q. Now, Witness DB, at the time you packed up your communications

23 centre and moved unilaterally on your own decision, were you aware that

24 there was going to be an attack on Zepa, or did you learn for the first

25 time about the new operation that was planned against Zepa at the Bratunac

Page 9285

1 Brigade headquarters at the meeting that took place at 2200 hours that

2 same day?

3 A. Could you please put your question to me precisely? You started

4 your question by saying, "When you were packing up, did I learn about it,"

5 and then later on during the meeting at the Bratunac headquarters. What

6 precise time are you referring to, please?

7 Q. In previous testimony you said that on the 11th of July, at

8 approximately 2200 hours, you drove in your communications vehicle through

9 Potocari to Bratunac. Can you hear me?

10 A. I can't hear the interpreter very well. It's all right now.

11 Q. Can you hear the interpreter now, Witness DB?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Your previous testimony, Witness DB, you said that after you

14 packed up the communications centre at Pribicevac, you drove to Bratunac

15 and you attended a meeting where General Mladic was present, General

16 Krstic was present, General Zivanovic was present, the Brigade Commanders

17 were present, and General Mladic ordered General Krstic to form groups to

18 go attack Zepa. And my question to you, Witness DB: Was that the first

19 time that you learned about the new operation that was going to be mounted

20 against Zepa?

21 A. Yes. That was the first time at that meeting in the command of

22 the Bratunac Brigade some time around 2200 hours, I learned from the

23 orders of General Mladic that all units should be regrouped and should

24 head towards Zepa.

25 Q. Okay. Now, it's the Prosecutor's submission in this case, Witness

Page 9286

1 DB, that the communications centre at the forward command post in

2 Pribicevac was not moved on the 11th, it was moved at a time later than

3 that. What do you say to that?

4 A. I can only repeat all that I have already said to the investigator

5 and during my previous testimony. After the 11th of the evening, a

6 soldier signalsman stayed with General Krstic with a mobile device and

7 General Krstic, as he moved after the evening of the 11th, when I, with my

8 communications vehicle, headed towards Vlasenica could have used that

9 mobile device to command units that had still remained in the broader area

10 of Srebrenica.

11 All the other elements of the communications centre, including the

12 radio relay connection, the encrypted lines, and the teleprinter lines

13 moved with me and the other soldiers, signalsmen, to Vlasenica where we

14 arrived at about 2400 hours. And the communications centre ceased to

15 exist at Pribicevac around about 1900 hours on the 11th of July, and

16 General Krstic had, at his disposal, only a single mobile device for

17 communications purposes.

18 Q. It's further the Prosecution's submission, Witness DB, that the

19 forward command post communications centre at Pribicevac was not moved

20 until after the Drina Corps Command was informed that the new operation

21 was to take place at Zepa, and was to commence on the 14th of July.

22 That -- it's further the Prosecution's submission, Witness DB, that such a

23 scenario is consistent with the rules that you and I have discussed and

24 that are found in Prosecution Exhibit 402, tab 4.

25 Now, let me ask you just a few more questions. When you moved the

Page 9287

1 communications centre --

2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Harmon, excuse me for

3 interrupting, but we really do have to finish the cross-examination.

4 Though we do have a flexible interpretation for the cross-examination, but

5 there are time constraints and I think you have already overstepped the

6 amount of time used by the Defence for the examination-in-chief so I'd

7 like you to wind up.

8 We're only working until 4.00 today, I should like to let you

9 know.

10 MR. HARMON: I intend to comfortably finish within that time

11 frame, Mr. President.

12 Q. When you left the forward command post in the communications

13 vehicle, were you escorted by other vehicles of the VRS or did your

14 vehicle travel to Bratunac unescorted?

15 A. My vehicle travelled unescorted because there were no other

16 vehicles apart from, perhaps, one vehicle of the command headquarters but

17 as far as I remember, it was a transport vehicle.

18 Q. How many people were in the vehicle besides yourself?

19 A. In my vehicle, there are about four or five soldiers apart -- in

20 addition to myself.

21 Q. Is a communications vehicle -- strike that. Where were you seated

22 in the vehicle?

23 A. I was seated next to the driver as a co-driver.

24 Q. Who was the driver?

25 A. The vehicle was driven by the driver.

Page 9288












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French

13 and English transcripts.













Page 9289

1 Q. Where were the other persons seated?

2 A. The other soldiers were sitting in the cabin of the vehicle, in

3 the communications system section.

4 Q. Did the communications system section, the cabin, have windows you

5 could look out?

6 A. There is the entrance door and very small slits, small windows or

7 slits.

8 Q. Now, after you left Bratunac on the 11th, could you just identify

9 the road and the villages that you passed through to arrive at Vlasenica?

10 A. Let me repeat my November testimony. The road I took was

11 Bratunac-Krivace-Konjevic Polje-Kasaba-Milici-Vlasenica.

12 Q. Were you escorted on your route to Vlasenica?

13 A. Nobody was assigned for an escort of any kind, but in front of us

14 there was a passenger car from Bratunac and there was also a truck, and I

15 remember that we were the third in line, approximately. We did not pass

16 anyone on the road. So this was a sort of encouragement for us because we

17 thought that some groups of the 28th Division were perhaps moving in the

18 same direction, so this helped us. It was important for us to know that

19 we had during the night somebody in front of us. And as I say, we didn't

20 overtake anyone on route.

21 Q. Witness DB, thanks very much.

22 MR. HARMON: I have no additional questions.

23 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Harmon.

24 Mr. Petrusic, any additional questions?

25 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Yes, thank you, Mr. President, very

Page 9290

1 briefly, just a few.

2 I should like to ask the usher to provide us with OTP Exhibit 881,

3 please, and 882.

4 Re-examined by Mr. Petrusic:

5 Q. And while we're looking for those exhibits, Witness DB, in your

6 testimony you referred to a statement you gave on the 4th of April to the

7 Office of the Prosecutor in Banja Luka. Did you receive that statement?

8 Do you in fact have that statement with you or at all?

9 A. No, I do not.

10 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, to save time,

11 perhaps I could give the witness a copy and it could be placed on the

12 ELMO. Would you place the first page on the ELMO, please. Thank you.

13 Q. Witness DB, this interview or, rather, newspaper article is dated

14 the 24th of July, 1995, and in the last sentence of this article, mention

15 is made of General Krstic. On the 24th of July, 1995, was General Krstic

16 the Commander?

17 A. I think he was on that date.

18 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] On the -- could we have the

19 photograph placed on the ELMO now, please.

20 THE INTERPRETER: Could counsel speak into the microphone,

21 please. We're having trouble hearing.

22 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation]

23 Q. On this photograph, it is the assumption that Colonel --

24 Lieutenant Colonel Svetozar Andric is sitting there, that he's in the

25 photograph.

Page 9291

1 A. Yes. It could be him, yes.

2 Q. Lieutenant Colonel Andric was the Commander of the Biscani

3 Brigade?

4 A. Yes, at the time he was the Commander of the 1st Biscani Infantry

5 Brigade -- Birac Brigade.

6 Q. The Birac Brigade had its headquarters in Sekovici; is that right?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. This individual here wearing the black shift or jacket whom the

9 Prosecution maintains is Miso Pelemis, is that individual from Sekovici or

10 the surroundings of Sekovici; do you know, happen to know?

11 A. Yes. He's from the village of Pelemici, and that is near

12 Sekovici, a village that was burnt in 1992, and I know that at the

13 beginning of the war he was the Commander of a battalion in that brigade.

14 Q. Bearing that in mind, Miso Pelemis at the beginning of the war,

15 therefore, was the Commander of the battalion in the Birac Brigade; is

16 that right?

17 A. Yes. At the start of the war he was a battalion commander --

18 first of all, a light assault unit or intervention unit within the

19 composition of this brigade, and later on he was even the Commander of a

20 battalion in the brigade commanded by the then Colonel Andric.

21 Q. Bearing that in mind, Witness DB, do you allow for the possibility

22 that this photograph was taken in some other area, in another locality

23 within the zone of the Birac Brigade while the two of them were superior

24 and subordinate?

25 A. Yes, that is highly probable, and I mentioned that yesterday,

Page 9292

1 because we have the defence positions, and had this photograph been taken

2 at Zepa, we were there in an attack. We did not remain or set up our

3 defence positions there, so it is highly possible. And as I deal in

4 newspaper work myself, this is probably a photograph where Colonel

5 Svetozar Andric was taken -- a picture of him was taken with his former

6 associates.

7 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] I should now like to ask the usher

8 to place Exhibit 882 on the ELMO, please.

9 Q. Witness DB, during yesterday's testimony you were informed of the

10 contents of this conversation, and I don't want to refer back to that. I

11 have a question of my own. This question [as interpreted] was recorded on

12 the 25th of June, 1995, and my question is the following: On the 25th of

13 June, 1995, was the forward command post at Pribicevac functioning,

14 operational?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Witness DB, thank you. I have no further questions for you.

17 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Defence has

18 concluded its examination of this witness. Thank you.

19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,

20 Mr. Petrusic.

21 Madam Judge Wald has the floor.

22 Questioned by the Court:

23 JUDGE WALD: I have only one question, and it's a general

24 operational question. If a communication is being sent to the forward

25 command post wherever, and before it gets there the forward command post

Page 9293

1 communications centre is dissembled along the lines that you packed up and

2 moved someplace else, what happens to the communication? I mean, what

3 precautions or protections are taken if it can't get to the communications

4 centre which has been dissembled to make sure it gets to whoever it was

5 addressed to? What's the procedure?

6 A. When the teleprinter operator gets from the encoder an encoded

7 message, he calls the dispatcher at the forward command post to dispatch

8 it to him, to send it on to him. Now, if at that particular point the

9 forward command post is being moved or the communication lines are severed

10 and impossible to each, then the teleprinter operator hangs up the

11 telegram on a position where undispatched telegrams are put, and he tries

12 to establish in any way other communication with that particular unit or

13 the forward command post for him to be able to send the telegram on.

14 If he is not successful, then after a certain period of time it is

15 his duty to inform the person who wrote the telegram to say that there has

16 been an interruption in communication lines, that he was unable to hand

17 over the telegram. But the telegram itself then waits for the first

18 opportunity, depending on the urgency of the telegram, of course, to be

19 sent to the person it was intended for.

20 JUDGE WALD: And just a short follow-up. If that happens and the

21 teletype operator finds out that in fact he can't deliver it to the --

22 because the forward command post communications centre has been

23 dissembled, roughly how long do you think it would be before the message,

24 if he can't find the other person -- I mean, if he tries to find the

25 person that should have been at the forward command post in some other

Page 9294

1 place, he tries to find out where he is and get it sent to him there, is

2 that what you said? And if he can't, it stays with undelivered telegrams

3 until he can find a place to send it, and meanwhile he calls the sender

4 and informs the sender, "I wasn't able to deliver it," right? Is that --

5 that was the essence of your answer?

6 A. Yes.

7 JUDGE WALD: Okay. Roughly how long would that process take?

8 Like, in your experience, what's the longest time it's ever taken for a

9 so-called undelivered message to finally get to its, to its recipient

10 through this process? I mean, do sometimes messages lie undelivered for

11 days or weeks, or is it pretty much, much more common in your experience

12 for them to get to the recipient within a couple of hours or something

13 like that?

14 A. Well, the time can differ quite a lot, depending on the specific

15 circumstances of each individual case and the situation on the front and

16 combat operations and so on and so forth. If the communications centre

17 has been dismantled, destroyed, that is to say, it cannot be sent, if the

18 communications centre has been dissembled and transported elsewhere, then

19 the printer operator seeks ways and means to deliver the message, but he

20 can't keep a telegram ad infinitum without sending it on.

21 If this time is prolonged, he must inform the writer of the

22 telegram that he is unable to deliver the telegram for the time being and

23 that he has not sent it on to the recipient, and then other steps are

24 taken if the communication lines are down. Perhaps a courier is used to

25 take the telegram. Everything depends on whether the telegram is an

Page 9295

1 urgent and important one or not.

2 JUDGE WALD: Who makes the decision whether it's urgent or

3 important, the teletype operator?

4 A. The teletype operator gets the telegram with a mark on it saying

5 whether it's urgent, priority, whether it has priority or whether it is an

6 operational telegram. So it says on the telegram when the teleprint

7 operator receives it. If it is urgent, he sends it on. If it sent then

8 they pass on the urgent telegrams, and then the others are sent on

9 afterwards.

10 JUDGE WALD: My last question: In your experience, in the

11 majority of cases, in the majority of cases, how long before a telegram

12 marked "urgent" that you would get back to the sender if you couldn't

13 deliver it?

14 A. He must inform the teletype operator if he fails to send the

15 telegram on within two hours, within two hours. Then he informs the

16 person sending the telegram, writing the telegram, and then he will tell

17 him whether he insists that the telegram be sent on or whether he will

18 find another means of having the telegram delivered.

19 JUDGE WALD: Thank you.

20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Madam Judge

21 Wald. Witness DB, I myself have two questions for you and the first is

22 the following: The forward command post on the 13th of July, I think that

23 you said to the Prosecutor that General Mladic was not there. Did I hear

24 you correctly?

25 A. Yes. I don't think I saw General Mladic on the 13th of July.

Page 9296

1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Okay. The Prosecutor also asked

2 you whether you know whether he was elsewhere and you said, "I don't

3 know." Do you remember your answer?

4 A. Yes, I remember having said that.

5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] My question then is the

6 following: How did you know that General Mladic was not there?

7 A. In the area of the Krivace forward command post on the 13th of

8 July which is where I was, I did not see him there.

9 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Okay. So the reason is that you

10 were there and you didn't see him there; is that right?

11 A. Yes.

12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] My second question: Mr. Harmon

13 asked you who the driver was driving the vehicle and you said, "The

14 vehicle was driven by the driver." That's what you said. Now, who was

15 the driver?

16 A. The driver was my soldier from the communications battalion and

17 his name was Veljko Vukosavljevic.

18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Okay, thank you. Witness DB, we

19 have no other questions for you. Thank you for answering all our

20 questions put to you by the Prosecution, the Defence, and the Judges and

21 thank you very much for coming to the Tribunal once again.

22 I shall now ask the usher to escort you out of the courtroom,

23 thank you very much. Mr. Usher, would you see the witness out.

24 But maybe, Witness, stay where you are for the moment for the

25 usher to be able to lower the blinds. Those are the protective measures

Page 9297

1 for you.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours, too.

3 [The witness withdrew]

4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I think that we can now continue

5 with the cross-examination of Witness DG; is that right, Mr. Harmon?

6 MR. HARMON: Yes, I'm prepared to proceed, Mr. President.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Okay, very well. Let us take

8 advantage of this break to hear whether we can have the witness brought

9 in.

10 [The witness entered court]

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Witness DG. Put

12 your headset on, please. Can you hear me now?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Good afternoon. Let me remind

15 you that you need not take the solemn declaration again. You are still

16 under oath, of course, and this afternoon you will be answering questions

17 put to you by the Prosecutor, Mr. Harmon. So please be seated. Try and

18 get as comfortable as possible, approach the microphones, please, and

19 prepare yourself for answering questions.

20 Mr. Harmon, your witness.

21 MR. HARMON: Thank you, Mr. President.


23 [Witness answered through interpreter]

24 Cross-examined by Mr. Harmon:

25 Q. Good afternoon, Witness DG.

Page 9298

1 A. Good afternoon.

2 Q. Witness DG, in respect of the events that took place five and a

3 half years ago about which you've testified yesterday, can you tell me,

4 did you maintain any notebooks, any journals, any documents at all that

5 would help you refresh your recollection?

6 A. I had the dispatch book when I would hand over telegrams to

7 somebody. That person would sign my dispatch book.

8 Q. Where is that dispatch book?

9 A. I don't know.

10 Q. When did you last see that dispatch book?

11 A. In Vlasenica. When I left all the other documents, I left that

12 book there too --

13 Q. So --

14 A. -- in the encryption room.

15 Q. Five and a half years ago, approximately?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. My question was a little bit more oriented towards the present.

18 Before coming to testify in this case, did you have an opportunity to go

19 back and look at the dispatch book or any other documents including

20 personal notes that you may have maintained to refresh your recollection

21 about the events that you've testified about, or are you testifying solely

22 on memory?

23 A. No. I just saw the dispatch book then and at no other time after

24 that, just at Mr. Petrusic's with -- I saw the original. I saw the

25 original telegram that I received at 11.50.

Page 9299

1 Q. Other than the telegram, I'm trying to be very clear on this,

2 Witness DG, other than the telegram, did you see any dispatch books prior

3 to coming here to testify?

4 A. I didn't see a single dispatch book, no.

5 Q. I take it when you've testified about events that took place more

6 than five and a half years ago, you're testifying based on your own

7 recollection of these events; is that correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Yesterday, my colleague, Mr. Petrusic, asked you the following

10 question and I'm referring to page 54 of LiveNote, lines 19 through 23.

11 "When did you leave the forward command post at Pribicevac?" Your answer

12 that is recorded is as follows: "We left Pribicevac when the army entered

13 Srebrenica. I don't remember the exact date, but I do know that when the

14 army passed the centre of town and went further on, we received orders

15 from Major Jevdjevic. We packed up our things, and went towards

16 Srebrenica."

17 Now, witness, you don't remember whether that was the 11th or the

18 12th or the 13th of July 1995, do you?

19 A. No, not the date.

20 Q. When you said in your answer that, "I do know when the army passed

21 the centre of town and went further on," what did you mean by "and went

22 further on." Can you explain that to us, please?

23 A. Well, the army passed through Srebrenica and went on I don't know

24 where, where it was supposed to.

25 Q. Well, do you know where the army went on after it went past the

Page 9300

1 centre of Srebrenica?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Do you know that the army went on to Potocari?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Do you know that the army went to Potocari on the -- arrived at

6 Potocari on the 12th of July 1995?

7 A. No.

8 Q. So -- all right. Now, when you left in the communications vehicle

9 and went to Bratunac, do you know where the army, the VRS army had

10 reached, what part of the Srebrenica enclave it occupied?

11 A. No.

12 Q. When you left in the communications vehicle, where were you seated

13 in the communications vehicle?

14 A. There's a sort of container in the vehicle, and myself and two

15 other soldiers were in that part. It has a door to it, this section.

16 Q. How many people were inside the communications vehicle that

17 travelled through Srebrenica and arrived in Bratunac?

18 A. I don't know exactly. In that container section, three or four,

19 and two in front because it changed.

20 Q. Was your communications vehicle escorted to Bratunac by any other

21 VRS military vehicle?

22 A. I didn't see any, no.

23 Q. Now, could you see outside of your vehicle based on the position

24 that you were in?

25 A. I said that once when the door was opened --

Page 9301












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French

13 and English transcripts.













Page 9302

1 Q. How long was the door opened?

2 A. -- I did see outside.

3 Q. How long was the door open, Witness DG?

4 A. Briefly.

5 Q. Can you estimate, to the best of your recollection, how long that

6 might be in a matter of seconds or minutes?

7 A. Whoever was opening the door held it open for a minute or two.

8 Q. Was that the only time that the door was opened and you could see

9 outside during your entire journey from Pribicevac to Bratunac?

10 A. Yes. I also opened the door once when I saw the UN Compound and

11 the UN hangars.

12 Q. Again, to the best of your recollection, how long did you keep the

13 door open on that occasion?

14 A. Two or three minutes.

15 Q. Now, on whose order was it that the communications vehicle from

16 the forward command post was packed up?

17 A. Major Jevdjevic.

18 Q. Who gave him that order?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. Did the order to pack up the communications vehicle occur before

21 you were informed you were going to Zepa or after you were informed you

22 were going to Zepa?

23 A. Could you repeat your question, please?

24 Q. Was the communications vehicle at the forward command post at

25 Pribicevac packed up before you received information that you were going

Page 9303

1 to Zepa or after you received information that you were going to Zepa?

2 A. Before we received information.

3 Q. Now, when -- are you familiar with the rules of the army that deal

4 with when a forward command post can be dislocated and when a

5 communications centre and a command post can be dislocated or moved?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Are you aware that a command post can be only dislocated on the

8 order of a commander?

9 A. I don't know that.

10 Q. All right. Now, after you left the forward command post, Witness

11 DG, who of the Drina Corps staff remained at that location?

12 A. I don't know. I think no one.

13 Q. Let me read you the testimony of General Krstic and see if this

14 will refresh your recollection.

15 MR. HARMON: I am referring to the testimony of General Krstic,

16 the transcript at page 6198, lines 6 through 23.

17 Q. General Krstic testified as follows, and this testimony, to put it

18 in the proper context of time, is the 11th of July. Question, "So you

19 left Srebrenica and went to Bratunac?" Answer -- I'm sorry, I'm going to

20 read you some testimony, Witness DG. I want you to listen to this

21 testimony --

22 A. I see.

23 Q. -- and perhaps this will refresh your recollection. Understanding

24 your testimony that you -- well, let me ask, what time did you leave the

25 forward command post in the communications vehicle on some date?

Page 9304

1 A. About half past six or half past seven, something like that.

2 Q. Let me read you what General Krstic had to say about the 11th.

3 Q. So you left Srebrenica and went to Bratunac?

4 A. No, I didn't leave Srebrenica for Bratunac. Immediately

5 after we had received the order and had been informed

6 about the meeting, the time of the meeting and my

7 presence there, I went back to Pribicevac forward command

8 post along the Srebrenica-Bojna-Zeleni Jadar-Pribicevac

9 axis. So I went back.

10 Question by Mr. Petrusic:

11 Q. Who did you find at Pribicevac?

12 A. At the Pribicevac forward command post I found Colonel

13 Vicic, Lieutenant Colonel Kosoric, and the commander of the

14 command staff Lieutenant Amovic.

15 Q. So those were probably already evening hours?

16 A. Yes. It was already evening, around 8.00.

17 Q. Did you at that point leave Pribicevac and go to Bratunac?

18 A. After I had briefed Colonel Vicic about what General

19 Mladic had ordered, that is, that the units should stop at the

20 lines and stabilise their positions, I ordered Colonel Vicic

21 to continue monitoring the situation in the units. After

22 that, I left for Bratunac along the Pribicevac-Sase-Bratunac

23 route.

24 Now, Witness, who is Colonel Vicic? What position did he occupy

25 in the Drina Corps?

Page 9305

1 A. I don't know.

2 Q. Wasn't he General Krstic's operations officer?

3 A. He worked in the operations centre.

4 Q. Correct.

5 A. But people changed there.

6 Q. Correct. And he worked at the operations centre at the Pribicevac

7 forward command post, didn't he?

8 A. He was there probably. I don't know.

9 Q. And Lieutenant Colonel Kosoric, do you know who he is?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Do you know who the intelligence, the head of the intelligence

12 section of the Drina Corps staff, Lieutenant Svetozar Kosoric, a man with

13 a large moustache? Did you see him at the forward command post?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Now, let me ask you, then, when you left the forward command post,

16 Witness, did the forward -- with the communications vehicle on a date

17 unknown, did the forward command post remain in existence?

18 A. I don't know.

19 Q. Assuming General Krstic has accurately described what he did in

20 the course of this answer, that is, had he asked Colonel Vicic to continue

21 monitoring the situation in the units, and assuming this is the 11th of

22 July, 1995, after Colonel -- after the communications vehicle left the

23 forward command post at Pribicevac, how was Colonel Vicic to monitor the

24 situation of the units?

25 A. I don't know. I'm not aware of that. We were 50 or 100 metres

Page 9306

1 away from them.

2 Q. In fact -- go ahead, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

3 Please proceed with your answer.

4 A. Whether someone stayed behind up there or not, I don't know. I

5 think I saw Colonel Vukotic at that time over there, no one else.

6 Q. In fact, Colonel Vicic needed communications to monitor the

7 situation in the units, didn't he? You couldn't monitor the situation

8 without communications, could you?

9 A. I don't know. There was nothing to observe there or monitor.

10 Q. Now, let me read on what General Krstic has said about who

11 remained at the forward command post in Pribicevac.

12 MR. HARMON: And for Your Honours' and counsels' notations, I'm

13 referring to General Krstic's testimony found at page 6214, lines 4

14 through 15.

15 Q. And this, Witness DG, is what General Krstic testified about on

16 the morning of the 12th of July, 1995. "The next day, the 12th of

17 July --" this is questions by my colleague Mr. Petrusic.

18 The next day, the 12th of July, what did you do?

19 A. My activities were primarily linked with the tasks

20 assigned to me in connection with the Zepa operation. I got

21 up early at 6.00. I dropped in to see the duty officer, and

22 he told me that General Mladic had ordered that I should

23 attend again the meeting at 1000 hours. After that, I

24 immediately went to the forward command post at Pribicevac

25 where I found Colonel Vicic and the commander of the staff

Page 9307

1 command, Lieutenant Amovic, at the forward command post in

2 Pribicevac. I went to Pribicevac from Bratunac taking the

3 same route that I had taken to go to the meeting, and that is

4 Bratunac, Voljevica, Sase, and Pribicevac.

5 Let me read you further what General Krstic testified about that

6 occurred later that same day, on the 12th.

7 MR. HARMON: And I'm referring to the transcript at page 6221,

8 lines 5 through 13.

9 Q. And this also is on the 12th of July. "Is this where you," and

10 this is -- I'm sorry, let me start again. This is questions by

11 Mr. Petrusic to General Krstic.

12 Is this where you -- is this the point from which you went to

13 the new forward command post at Krivace?

14 A. When I arrived at the forward command post at Pribicevac

15 from the meeting at Bratunac, it was around, I think, 1330,

16 maybe 1400 hours. I stayed there a while, acquainted myself

17 with what Colonel Vicic had done, we had lunch together, and

18 then we went together to Viogora or the units we were supposed

19 to assemble. This was the assembly area for the units engaged

20 in the operations. We headed towards Viogora on a route

21 Pribicevac-Zeleni Jadar-Srebrenica-Viogora.

22 Now, Witness, isn't it a fact that the forward command post, while

23 Colonel Vicic was present, maintained communications and had the ability

24 to communicate with units and with the command? Isn't that a fact?

25 A. I don't know.

Page 9308

1 Q. Now, Witness, your testimony is that you went towards Srebrenica

2 some date, unknown precisely, but around 6.30 or 7.30, and that you

3 arrived in Vlasenica that same day sometime before midnight; is that

4 correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Now, that would mean, by my arithmetic, that you were outside of

7 the communications network for between four and a half and five and a half

8 hours; isn't that correct?

9 A. In the period between 6.30 or 7.30 and until 12, yes.

10 Q. Now, did you inform the command at Vlasenica that you were going

11 to be out of the communications network, that you were going to go silent?

12 A. I did not.

13 Q. Did anybody else?

14 A. Among my colleagues, possibly somebody did.

15 Q. Now, wasn't that your normal practice when you were in a

16 communications centre to inform the headquarters that you were getting off

17 the communications network?

18 A. Mine, no.

19 Q. Wasn't that the normal practice in the army, I'm asking you,

20 Witness DG, or is it a normal practice in the VRS to have a forward

21 command post communications centre that arbitrarily goes off the

22 communications net without telling anyone that they're going to do that?

23 A. For me to inform anyone, I would have to spend a lot of paper of

24 17 millimetres which we were very short of at the time.

25 Q. Well, wouldn't it consist -- wouldn't it merely consist of

Page 9309

1 informing them through an encoded message or an encrypted message that you

2 were going to be out of communication contact for a certain period of time

3 so they could properly organise their own operations?

4 A. Yes, but that's not a short message. It's quite a long one on an

5 encrypted form of paper.

6 Q. So what is the best of your recollection, Witness: Did you, Major

7 Jevdjevic, or did any of your colleagues inform the Drina Corps

8 Headquarters Command that you were going off the communications network

9 for a certain period of time, that you were pulling up stakes, that you

10 were packing up, and that you were leaving?

11 A. I personally did not. Whether someone else did, I don't know.

12 Q. Now, when you arrived at the Vlasenica headquarters -- strike

13 that.

14 When you arrived at the Vlasenica headquarters shortly before

15 midnight, did you tell the -- did you personally, did Major Jevdjevic, or

16 did anyone else in your staff inform the duty officer at the headquarters

17 or anybody else in the Drina Corps headquarters that there was no longer a

18 communications centre operating at the Pribicevac forward command post?

19 A. I did not, and Major Jevdjevic may have, because I went to my

20 office.

21 Q. Now, wouldn't that be a prudent thing to do, inform the corps

22 headquarters that there was no longer a communications network,

23 communications centre at the forward command post at Pribicevac?

24 A. That was not my job.

25 Q. I know it wasn't your job. You're a soldier in the VRS, and I'm

Page 9310

1 asking you your opinion. Isn't that the type of information that

2 necessarily should have been communicated and was communicated to the

3 Drina Corps headquarters, that there was no longer a communications centre

4 at the forward command post in Pribicevac?

5 A. I don't know that, don't know those things. In the army, it is

6 clearly specified who does what.

7 Q. So you not only -- are you unable to inform this Trial Chamber --

8 well, let me ask you this question: How long were you a signalsman in the

9 VRS?

10 A. A year and a half to two.

11 Q. And did you -- were you assigned to communications centres of

12 forward command posts in the past?

13 A. Yes, but mostly stationary facilities.

14 Q. Did you go to Krivace, the forward command post in Krivace in the

15 communications vehicle?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did you go to the two other forward command posts that were set up

18 in the Zepa area of responsibility?

19 A. At Zepa? I was only at Krivace.

20 Q. Now, would it be fair to say, Witness, that after you arrived in a

21 communications vehicle that had been a communications centre at

22 Pribicevac, when you arrived with Major Jevdjevic with yourself and all of

23 your communications crew, that the people at the Drina Corps headquarters

24 knew there was no longer communications centre at Pribicevac. Is that a

25 fair conclusion?

Page 9311

1 A. I don't know.

2 Q. We'll move on to a different topic then. When you went to -- from

3 Bratunac -- strike that.

4 While you were at Bratunac, did you get out of the communications

5 vehicle?

6 A. No.

7 Q. When you went from Bratunac to Vlasenica, which road did you take

8 to get to Vlasenica?

9 A. I don't know. Probably Konjevic Polje, Milici, Vlasenica.

10 MR. HARMON: Now, I'd like to have the witness please be shown

11 Prosecutor's Exhibit 830 and if the registrar could also prepare 831 as

12 well, we'll start with Prosecutor's Exhibit 830. They both could be

13 brought to the witness. If you would start, Mr. Usher by putting the

14 English version of Prosecutor's Exhibit 830 on the ELMO.

15 Q. Witness, if you could take a look at the B/C/S version of 830, do

16 you see that in front of you, sir?

17 A. Yes.

18 MR. HARMON: Mr. Usher, if you could turn to the second page of

19 the English translation, place that on the ELMO.

20 Q. Witness, referring to Prosecutor's Exhibit 830, this is a document

21 that was sent from the Drina Corps Command for Commander Major General

22 Milenko Zivanovic, and it was sent to, among other locations, the IKM, the

23 Drina Corps forward command post; correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. This document is marked "very urgent," isn't it?

Page 9312

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. In fact, if you examine the content of this document, Witness,

3 this document is urgent because the substance of it relates to potential

4 enemy forces coming from a different location and linking up with the 28th

5 Division forces within the enclaves; correct?

6 A. I don't know. It's not up to me to judge the urgency of a

7 telegram on the basis of its contents.

8 Q. But the face of this document says it's very urgent. We can let

9 other people conclude what the substance --

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. -- of it was, and why it was urgent. But witness, turning to the

12 second page of this document, you will see on the second page that this

13 document was transmitted to the addressees at 2250 hours; correct?

14 A. No. That it was handed to the teletype operator on -- at 2250

15 hours. That's the offices opposite the encryption room.

16 Q. Correct. And then it is processed out and sent; correct?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Well, then, I seriously misunderstood what the previous witness

19 has previously testified about this exhibit. Witness, what does the 2250

20 hours mean that's located in the stamp on this document?

21 A. It means that the encoder needed 20 minutes to process and encrypt

22 the telegram and to hand it to the teletype operator who was to forward it

23 on to the designated addressee.

24 Q. So after 2250 hours, an attempt was made to send this to the

25 addressees on this document; correct?

Page 9313

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Now, can you tell me, is there any trace on this document showing

3 that this document was not transmitted to the Pribicevac forward command

4 post? Is there any mark on this document to show that it wasn't

5 transmitted?

6 A. There is. Down there below, it says "delivered," and there's

7 nothing filled in on this same stamp.

8 Q. Correct. So this was not delivered to any of these subordinate

9 commands in this -- of the addressees and by that I mean the 2nd Romanija

10 Motorised Brigade, the Vlasenica Light Infantry Brigade, the 1st Milici

11 Light Infantry Brigade, the forward command post, the 1st Podrinje Light

12 Infantry Brigade, the 5th Podrinje Light Infantry Brigade, et cetera, et

13 cetera, et cetera. This simply was not delivered to anybody; is that

14 correct?

15 A. No.

16 MR. HARMON: Now, can we examine 831, please.

17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me, Mr. Harmon, something

18 is not quite clear here. You said this order was not delivered to all

19 these addressees that you listed and et cetera, et cetera so it was not

20 sent to anyone, is that correct, and the witness says no.

21 So I want to know what he meant. Does he mean that that was

22 correct or that it wasn't sent? You understand my question, I hope.

23 MR. HARMON: I do.

24 Q. Was this document, Prosecutor's 830, sent to any of the

25 addressees?

Page 9314

1 A. This stamp here with nothing written on it, either the date or the

2 hour or a signature means that this telegram was not delivered to any one

3 of those stations. If the encoder had signed it and placed the date, that

4 would have meant that it had been delivered to everyone. That is why his

5 signature is not there nor is the hour or date indicated.

6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me, Mr. Harmon, I'm sorry

7 for insisting.

8 Witness, do you have any indications as to the reasons why someone

9 went to the trouble to write this without managing to achieve any

10 purpose? Can you give us any possible reason for this?

11 A. No. Probably later on he somehow managed to have it signed and

12 delivered.

13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Who would have taken the

14 decision not to send it because, you see, somebody received it? Somebody

15 went to the trouble of doing everything, encrypting it, et cetera, and

16 after all that work, the objective was not achieved. Who would have

17 decided that?

18 A. I don't know.

19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Please continue, Mr. Harmon.


21 Q. Witness, if you could turn your attention, please, to Prosecutor's

22 Exhibit 831.

23 Mr. Usher if you could put the English version of that on, the

24 second page.

25 Witness, this is a document which is the same in substance as the

Page 9315

1 previous exhibit, isn't it? Did you understand my question?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Let me -- the contents of this document are identical to the

4 previous exhibit; correct?

5 A. These two telegrams, you mean?

6 Q. Yes. The content.

7 A. Yes. Yes.

8 Q. Now, on this -- this is the document, I believe you testified,

9 that you received in Vlasenica on the night you arrived and that you

10 inserted the time and signature at the end of that document. Do you see

11 what I'm referring to? Is that your signature?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Now, let me ask you, Witness, before coming to The Hague to

14 testify, did you tell anyone that you had received this order on the 11th

15 of July at 1800 hours?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did you tell anyone that you had received this order at the

18 Pribicevac forward command post on that date and at that time?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Did you tell anyone that because there were no authorised officers

21 at the forward command post, you couldn't deliver the order?

22 A. I spoke to the attorney about this telegram two or three months

23 ago when we met. I said that I didn't receive that telegram up there, but

24 at Vlasenica. But I left the possibility open that if I had received it

25 there, that I must have done so by 6.00 or 6.30 and that I had no one to

Page 9316

1 hand it to so that I handed it to someone in Vlasenica.

2 Q. All right. Now, examining Prosecutor's Exhibit 831, is there any

3 trace on this document to show that it was received by you in Vlasenica?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Now, let's take your testimony at face value. When you received

6 this telegram in Vlasenica at 2350 hours, what did you do with it? It's

7 marked "very urgent."

8 A. I took it to the operations centre straight away.

9 Q. What did they do with it?

10 A. I don't know.

11 Q. Did you give it to Major Jevdjevic?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did you inform him that you were in receipt of a very urgent

14 order?

15 A. No.

16 Q. All right.

17 MR. HARMON: May the witness be given Defence Exhibit 165,

18 please. Put the English version, Mr. Usher, on the ELMO, the second

19 page. Actually, start with the first page, if you would, Mr. Usher.

20 Q. Now, Witness, have you seen this document before?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Well, examine it for just a minute starting at the top and you'll

23 see the addressees. And I'll direct your attention, because I'm conscious

24 of the time, if you read the first paragraph and then turn over to the

25 last page and look at the individual who sent this document.

Page 9317

1 Now, witness, this is a document that is dated the 12th of July

2 and was sent to the forward command post attention of, in Pribicevac,

3 attention of General Krstic. And from reading this document, which is

4 information about a prisoner who was captured at 1800 hours along the

5 Bratunac-Kravica region, and I think it's fair to assume that it took a

6 while to interrogate him, to prepare this report and then to transmit it.

7 You can see at the bottom of this report that this was received by the 2nd

8 Romanija Motorised Brigade at 2210 hours, sometime after 10.00 at least.

9 My question to you, and -- I'm sorry, and the person who has sent this

10 message is General Tolimir from the VRS Main Staff.

11 Witness, can you explain why the VRS Main Staff more than 24 hours

12 after your command communications centre allegedly left Pribicevac was

13 still sending communications to General Krstic personally at the forward

14 command post in Pribicevac?

15 A. I don't know.

16 MR. HARMON: All right. Can we have the next exhibit which is

17 Prosecutor's Exhibit 739, please.

18 Q. Witness, if you just quickly glance at this document, particularly

19 the addressees in the document.

20 Mr. Usher, if you could place the document on the ELMO. Could you

21 move it up, Mr. Usher, just a bit.

22 Witness, have you had a chance to look at this document?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Take your time. Have you had a chance to look at that document,

25 Witness?

Page 9318

1 Now, this document, Witness, is from the Ministry of the Interior,

2 and it is a document wherein the Ministry of the Interior forwards the

3 full text of a message from the Drina Corps, and then you'll see that the

4 Drina Corps message in toto is reproduced. The document is dated the 13th

5 of July, and you'll see one of the recipients is indicated, and I quote,

6 "Pribicevac forward command post, General Krstic personally."

7 MR. HARMON: And Mr. Usher, if you could move it up now, the

8 document all the way up to the bottom so we can see who sent it.

9 Q. This document has been sent by the chief of the intelligence and

10 security department, Lieutenant Colonel, and then there's an omission.

11 Are you aware, Witness, that the chief of the intelligence and security

12 department of the Drina Corps was Lieutenant Colonel Kosoric, the

13 brother-in-law of General Krstic? Are you aware of that fact?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Now, can you tell me why on the 13th of July, Witness, after the

16 forward command post was alleged -- the communications centre at the

17 forward command post was allegedly packed up on the 11th, why General

18 Krstic's brother-in-law, who is the chief of intelligence and security, is

19 sending a message to General Krstic at the Pribicevac forward command post

20 on the 13th of July?

21 A. I don't know.

22 Q. Now, it's the Prosecutor's submission, Witness, that the forward

23 command post and the ability to receive and transmit communications

24 continued in existence on the 12th of July and the 13th of July, 1995.

25 What do you say to that?

Page 9319

1 A. Impossible at Pribicevac.

2 Q. All right.

3 MR. HARMON: I have no further questions, thank you.

4 Q. Thank you, Witness.

5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Mr. Harmon.

6 Mr. Petrusic, re-examination? And could you tell me, please, how

7 much time you will need, approximately.

8 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Very brief, Mr. President.

9 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Very well. Please go ahead.

10 Re-examined by Mr. Petrusic:

11 Q. I'd like to go back to Exhibit 830, please. On the stamp, the

12 last portion says "delivered." At your centre, the centre from which you

13 sent out messages or, rather, telegrams, is there a book in which you

14 write in who you sent the telegram to and who received it? Is there a

15 standard form of book for this type of thing?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Now, am I right in saying that if on this particular stamp it does

18 not say who the telegram was delivered to, is it written into that book?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And you'll agree with me that this particular telegram was sent,

21 that is to say, the addressees were 11 -- 12 addresses, there were 11 or

22 12 addressees, so it's impossible to write in this section all the

23 recipients; is that right?

24 A. Well, probably, yes. Probably it didn't reach some of the

25 stations, addressees.

Page 9320

1 Q. Witness, on the 12th of July with the communications centre and

2 your devices, in the afternoon hours and later on, were you at the Krivace

3 forward command post?

4 A. Yes.

5 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Defence has no

6 further questions for this witness.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,

8 Mr. Petrusic.

9 Madam Judge Wald has the floor. No questions?

10 Questioned by the Court:

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Witness, I have just one

12 question for you. Do you happen to remember the name of the driver who

13 drove the vehicle from Pribicevac to Bratunac?

14 A. Veljko.

15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Did he have another name?

16 A. No.

17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So Veljko, that's the name, is

18 it, Veljko?

19 A. Yes, Veljko.

20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Very well, Witness. We have no

21 further questions for you. Thank you very much for coming. I'm now going

22 to ask the usher to lower the blinds to ensure that you are protected, and

23 afterwards he'll show you out of the courtroom. Thank you.

24 [The witness withdrew]

25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] As I have already said, we will

Page 9321

1 have to end by 4.00, so I don't think it is possible for us to have a new

2 witness shown in. We'll leave that for tomorrow.

3 We overstepped the time indicated by someone for the interpreters'

4 working hours. Now, I don't want to turn this into a rule. It was an

5 exception, and I admitted it because I know that our interpreters are the

6 best in the world.

7 So for the time being, I think we'll stop there, that is, we'll

8 stop there for today and adjourn and reconvene tomorrow morning at 9.20 as

9 usual.

10 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 3.48 p.m., to

11 be reconvened on Wednesday, the 4th day of

12 April, 2001, at 9.20 a.m.














Page 9322












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French

13 and English transcripts.