1 Thursday, 8
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 9.35 a.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] You may be
7 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, the
8 technical booth, the interpreters; good morning, legal
9 assistants and court reporters; good morning to the
10 Prosecution, Ms. Hollis and Mr. Waidyaratne; good
11 morning to the Defence. I see we're all present. Good
12 morning to the accused.
13 We're going to resume our hearing. Have the
14 witness brought in, please.
15 [The witness entered court]
16 WITNESS: EDIN MRKALJ [Resumed]
17 [Witness answered through interpreter]
18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Good
19 morning, Witness. Can you hear me? Can you hear me,
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, Your
22 Honour, I can.
23 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Good
24 morning. Are you feeling well?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I would
2 like to remind you that you are continuing to testify
3 under oath, and today you are going to answer questions
4 by the Defence attorneys.
5 Mr. Krstan Simic, what is the order for the
6 cross-examination. I can see that you will be the
8 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Good morning,
9 Your Honour.
10 The cross-examination will be in the order in
11 which the accused are listed in the indictment, but the
12 representatives of Mr. Kos have no questions. So we
13 will follow the order with the exception of the Defence
14 team for Mr. Kos.
15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Fine.
16 Thank you very much, Mr. Simic. You may begin. You
17 have the floor.
18 Cross-examined by Mr. K. Simic:
19 Q. Good morning, Mr. Mrkalj.
20 A. Good morning.
21 Q. We will be talking today about a number of
22 issues, and I hope we will be able to clarify a certain
23 number of things.
24 During your testimony yesterday you said that
25 you graduated from the School of Internal Affairs; it
1 is a secondary level school in Sarajevo. Upon
2 graduation, were you obliged to do your regular
3 military service?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Regardless of the fact that you were under no
6 obligation to do your regular military service, were
7 you duty-bound as a military conscript to report to the
8 competent Defence Ministry, or one of its departments
9 depending on your place of residence?
10 A. Could you clear up exactly what you mean?
11 Could you clarify that, please?
12 Q. As an able-bodied man, of age, were you
13 duty-bound to report to the competent military
14 authorities as a military conscript, to be listed?
15 A. The records were kept automatically, because
16 upon graduation my military service was automatically
18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me
19 for interrupting you.
20 Witness, are you having a problem? Is
21 something wrong?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, a little.
23 I have a bit of a headache but we can continue.
24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Are you
25 sure? Are you capable of continuing?
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes, I'll
3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] If you say
4 you are capable, then there is nothing I can do.
5 Mr. Simic, you may continue.
6 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you,
7 Your Honour.
8 Q. You were not obliged to serve in the army,
9 but were you a conscript, according to the laws in
10 force in Yugoslavia at the time?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. When you were working in Belgrade, in which
13 municipality were you recorded as a military conscript?
14 A. I told you already, that was done
15 automatically and I was in the municipality of Savski
16 Vijenac. I didn't have to report myself; I was listed
18 Q. In 1988 you started working in the
19 municipality of Prijedor, which is another municipality
20 and another republic in Yugoslavia at the time. Did
21 you report your change of address to the municipality
22 in which you said you had been automatically
24 A. What do you mean?
25 Q. As a military conscript; that's what we're
1 talking about.
2 A. As a military conscript. All this is done
3 automatically. All my documents were transferred to
4 Prijedor municipality, to the public security station
5 and to the military department. My only responsibility
6 was to report my new address.
7 Q. Did you get a wartime assignment in Prijedor
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Could the
11 usher distribute these copies for Their Honours, the
12 Prosecution, and the witness, please.
13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Is there a
14 problem with the English translation? No?
15 THE REGISTRAR: The English translation will
16 be D27/1A, and in B/C/S, D27/1.
17 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation]
18 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, you have in front of you a
19 certificate of the Defence Ministry, Prijedor
20 department, in which it says that: "Edin Mrkalj, son
21 of Husein, born on the 13th of June, after the Savski
22 Vijenac municipality in Belgrade, reported on the 13th
23 of December, 1977 to the Military Department," and that
24 your military duties were linked to the public security
25 station in Prijedor as a policeman.
1 It is also stated that you had the military
2 speciality number "11.107, policeman," without any
3 superior position which, in wartime conditions, is the
4 equivalent to a foot soldier. Is that correct? Your
5 military obligation when you moved to Prijedor.
6 A. I told you, I didn't go to the military
7 department. This was automatic. In order to get
8 employment, this was done automatically.
9 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, you spoke frequently yesterday
10 about rules and procedures. You're a policeman; you
11 have a military obligation. When war breaks out, what
12 would you do? Were you given a military assignment
13 telling you what you should do automatically?
14 A. Yes, but in the case of war.
15 Q. That is my question. Is this your military
16 assignment in the case of war?
17 A. In that case, I am a military policeman.
18 Q. An ordinary policeman?
19 A. No, a military policeman.
20 Q. But in terms of rank, a regular military
21 police officer? Would you have a rank? Would you be
22 in charge?
23 A. No. No.
24 Q. So your speciality number is 11.107, equals
25 policeman, equals soldier, equals military policeman.
1 A. That's what you said. I have no idea what
2 all this means, this "VES," and "policeman," and
4 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, how would you know what you
5 should do should such a situation arise?
6 A. You see, I would probably be given an order
7 and then I would know what I should do in such a
9 Q. Thank you, Mr. Mrkalj. Yesterday you
10 mentioned that when you arrived in Omarska, that you
11 had known from before your colleagues, policemen, even
12 some who had graduated from the same school as you,
13 including Mr. Kvocka and Mr. Meakic, who, for a time,
14 went to the same school at the same time as you; is
15 that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You also said yesterday that the police
18 service was organised, that there was a police station
19 in Prijedor, and that there were three departments or
20 sections of the police station; one in Kozarac, another
21 in Ljubija, and a third department of the police
22 station was in Omarska.
23 Did you ever work as a policeman in a
24 department of the police station?
25 A. No.
1 Q. My question is: Did you or did you not?
2 A. No, I did not.
3 Q. I know that you were linked to the police
5 A. Of course. As a policeman you had to be.
6 Q. So you didn't work in a department, in the
7 police station department ever, anywhere. Do you know
8 how such a department is organised; the number of
9 personnel, the commander, and how the other services
10 are organised?
11 A. I knew most of the people who worked in those
13 Q. I'm not asking you about the people, I'm
14 asking you about the organisation.
15 A. Yes, I was familiar with that organisational
17 Q. On the basis of what?
18 A. When you go to school, then we have practical
19 training, and when you're doing this practical
20 training, you have to go through all the various
21 departments, including police station departments, and
22 you have to know how such a department functions. So
23 that I was familiar with that.
24 Q. Tell me, please, in which of these police
25 organisations was Mr. Kvocka employed, and in which
1 Mr. Meakic?
2 A. You're asking what post they personally
3 held. They were linked to Omarska. And I think Kvocka
4 to Kozarac, but partly also to Prijedor.
5 Q. I'm asking you about 1991 and 1992. Where
6 did these two gentlemen work, Mr. Meakic and
7 Mr. Kvocka, in which police station?
8 A. As far as I can remember, I think I was in
9 Omarska. Omarska.
10 You go on asking, please, sir.
11 Q. Do you know what the status of Mr. Kvocka and
12 Mr. Meakic was in 1991 and 1992?
13 A. I remember that they had been promoted, but
14 exactly to what, I cannot recollect. It was a long
15 time ago.
16 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, yesterday you tried hard to show
17 us your knowledge about the organisation of the police,
18 so please tell us, if you can -- if you cannot, no
19 problem -- what positions exist in a police station
21 A. There is the chief of the station --
22 Q. Please give us the official title because,
23 after all, we are jurists here.
24 A. So he would be the commander of the police
25 station department.
1 Q. Then?
2 A. Then he would have a deputy and then,
3 depending on the number of sectors or departments, the
4 structure would go downwards for that area.
5 Q. So to round this question off, there was a
6 commander, a deputy, and departments and sectors that
7 were operating; is that so?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, how many personnel does a police
10 station department have?
11 A. That depends on the area covered by such a
13 Q. I'm asking you about the departments in
14 Omarska, Ljubija, Kozarac. Do you know the number or
15 not? We're talking about departments in a local
17 A. I'm telling you what it says in the rules.
18 The number of personnel depends on the needs, and that
19 depends on the territory covered by that department.
20 So it is not specified whether the number should be 10,
21 15, 20, or 30.
22 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, we are talking about Prijedor
23 Police Station departments. As you worked in the
24 Prijedor Police Station, do you know how many people
25 were employed in the police station department in
2 A. I don't know the exact number because there
3 were changes.
4 Q. Thank you. Yesterday, talking about this
5 subject, you said that Mr. Kvocka wore a blue
6 camouflage police uniform; is that correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Ms. Hollis, in her examination, showed you a
9 regular police camouflage uniform and you said that
10 Mr. Kvocka wore just such a uniform.
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Could you repeat the basic colour of this
13 camouflage uniform worn by the police?
14 A. The main colour?
15 Q. You had a photograph in front of you.
16 A. Yes, I did. Pale blue. Blue, with spots so
17 as to make it multicoloured. Dark blue.
18 Q. I see. Dark blue. Yes, that's fine.
19 Mr. Meakic, did he wear a police uniform?
20 A. I suppose he did.
21 Q. Well, did he or didn't he?
22 A. He did.
23 Q. What kind of uniform? Was it the regular
24 uniform or a camouflage uniform?
25 A. He wore, I don't know how we used to call it
1 in those days, a polygon shirt.
2 Q. Is the same kind of shirt as the person shown
3 on the photograph shown to you yesterday?
4 A. Well, you see, he would change shirts. He
5 would wear a blue one and a camouflage one and -- it
6 depended. They didn't attach importance to
8 Q. Let us clear that up a little. Does that
9 mean that Mr. Meakic, while in Omarska, wore a regular
10 police uniform and a camouflage police uniform and he
11 switched from one to the other?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What about the other policemen on duty to
14 provide security?
15 A. Well, there were so many uniforms, different
16 types, military, police, even civilian ones. For
17 example, for the worst shift --
18 Q. I'm not asking you that, Witness. I'm asking
19 you about uniforms?
20 A. Well, I'm telling you about uniforms. For
21 example, one individual had sports clothing with the
22 number 3 on it, and then shift number 3, the worst
23 shift, took on this number from that, the sports
25 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] I should now
1 like to ask the usher to present the witness Exhibit
2 3/81, which has been tendered as an exhibit. It is a
3 Prosecution exhibit.
4 Q. Before you are shown the document, one more
5 question. What is the difference between a military
6 camouflage uniform and a police one? What's the basic
8 A. Well, depending on the unit you belong to.
9 Q. We're talking about camouflage. Is it green,
10 blue, red, what, the background?
11 A. Well, there were different ones.
12 Q. Let's talk about the infantry uniforms.
13 A. As I say, there were many different ones.
14 I'm telling you -- I'm speaking about them in general.
15 Q. I'm talking about camouflage uniforms. But
16 please have a look at the photograph that you have
17 before you now?
18 A. Yes, that's a classical military one.
19 Q. A classical military camouflage uniform; is
20 that right? We agree?
21 Mr. Mrkalj, can you identify the individuals
22 wearing classical, regular military camouflage uniforms
23 in the picture? Have a look. We have all the time in
24 the world.
25 The man with his arm raised.
1 A. Well, I knew these people very well, but, you
2 know what, I did know them very well but now --
3 Q. You can't remember?
4 A. Well, let me just have a little time. I'll
6 Q. Well, just take it slowly.
7 A. This is Simo Drljaca, the one with his arm
8 up, arm raised.
9 Q. Very well. The second individual standing
10 next to Simo Drljaca?
11 A. I knew that once but I've forgotten. Whether
12 I knew or didn't know, I really --
13 Q. Very well. Let's take the third individual
14 standing behind the man wearing the army cap. Do you
15 know him, the man behind?
16 A. He looks familiar, sir, but I can't
17 remember. Believe me when I say I just can't
19 Q. Thank you, Mr. Mrkalj.
20 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] I should like
21 to take note of the fact that Mr. Mrkalj has not
22 identified the third individual from the man with the
23 raised arm. Thank you.
24 Q. Let us now move on to another area.
25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Witness,
1 let me ask you once again. Are you capable of
2 continuing or not, or would you like us to take a
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I can.
5 I'll say myself if I'm not able to continue, Your
6 Honour. I don't feel well but let's get the job done.
7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] No. If
8 you're not in a state to continue -- the object is not
9 to continue, the object is to be able to continue.
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, yes, I
11 thought of that too. But we can continue.
12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
13 please continue. If possible, ask direct questions.
14 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you,
15 Mr. President. We do have to go through things because
16 the witness talked about many things that are included
17 in the indictment -- that are not included in the
19 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter
20 apologises. Things that are not included.
21 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Yesterday you spoke at great length about
23 rights and duties and the conduct of police officers in
24 prisons, et cetera. I apologise to have to go back.
25 A. It doesn't matter. Just go ahead and ask
2 Q. Yes. This is an area that we're interested
3 in, and we seemed to skim over them very quickly. Did
4 you ever work in a prison as a guard?
5 A. No, I did not.
6 Q. You didn't. In the former SFRY, and
7 therefore in Bosnia-Herzegovina itself, were prisons
8 organised as autonomous units, independent units? Was
9 there a warden? Did the prison have a warden?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. In those prisons, were the detainees people
12 who were in custody awaiting trial, as well as
13 prisoners performing their sentence, their prison
15 A. Well, that depended what prison you're
16 talking about.
17 Q. We're talking about the prison principle.
18 A. Sir, that, once again, depends on the type of
19 prison because there are different types of prisons.
20 Q. I am talking about district prisons. For the
21 Prijedor area, where was the district prison?
22 A. You mean in the Prijedor municipality?
23 Q. I'm talking about for the Prijedor
24 municipality. The prison for Prijedor municipality?
25 A. I think it was in Bihac.
1 Q. Thank you. In Bihac. Do you know if the
2 police had any competence and authority in the
3 organisation and supervision of prisons? Was the
4 prison under the president of the district court, his
5 authorisation, or was it under the CSB, the security
6 services chief? Under whose authority? Or perhaps the
7 Ministry of Justice.
8 A. I don't know. I can't tell you.
9 Q. I know you cannot. That is just why I wanted
10 to ask you -- that is precisely why I asked you the
12 MS. HOLLIS: Your Honour, we object to that.
13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
14 without any comments, please. Please refrain from
15 making comments. Just put your questions, because
16 otherwise you're going to get into a discussion and
17 debate with the witness. You cannot judge the answer
18 of the witness. Just ask simple questions.
19 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you,
20 Your Honour. I apologise, but we seem to come across
21 this problem time and again, that witnesses, during the
22 cross-examination, this happened on previous occasions,
23 try to avoid answers and try to give us explanations
24 instead of answers, and we are conscious of the
25 problems that arise but we'll try and avoid those
2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
3 the answer "I do not know" is a valid answer. If the
4 witness said, I do not know, then you cannot oblige him
5 to give you the answer you would like to hear, neither
6 can you judge the response given. So please refrain
7 from that and ask questions, Mr. Simic.
8 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Well, that's
9 what I want to hear. He said I don't know. Thank
10 you. That's the answer I wanted.
11 Q. The police station that you worked in, I'm
12 not speaking about your department but the whole
13 station, what were the superiors, the superior officers
14 of the station?
15 A. You mean the police station of Prijedor? It
16 had the chief of the SUP --
17 Q. Exclude the public security station. I'm
18 speaking about the police station as part of the
19 security system.
20 A. Well, I don't know what you want. But I'm
21 talking about structure, I'm --
22 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, I am asking you the command
23 structure in the police station of Prijedor. That's a
24 simple and clear-cut question.
25 A. And I'm giving you an answer, sir. At the
1 top is the chief, the number one man, the chief.
2 Q. I am talking about a part of the
3 organisation --
4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
5 please let the witness answer.
6 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
7 the witness is answering and telling me about a
8 structure that I'm not asking him about. I assume that
9 the witness, as a police officer, knows the structure
10 better than I do because he was there.
11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
12 you asked him, at least that was the translation I got,
13 what was the organigramme, and the witness answered
14 that there was a commander, and he was about to
15 continue when you interrupted him. So allow the
16 witness to answer, please, if you would.
17 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation]
18 Q. Please go ahead, witness. Mr. Mrkalj, please
19 go ahead.
20 A. What do you want me to tell you now?
21 Q. Who was the number one man of the police
22 station of Prijedor, the Prijedor Police Station?
23 A. The chief. The number one man was the
25 Q. Very well. Thank you.
1 A. The most responsible person.
2 Q. Let's continue.
3 A. What do you want us to continue with?
4 Q. Well, next, did the station have a commander,
5 a leader?
6 A. So you want me to tell you the organisation
7 downwards? Very well. I understand now. We had the
8 chief, as the number one man, and then according to
9 structure, the police station was divided into the
10 following: We had departments, the crime department,
11 the public security department, we had the traffic
12 department, and then a general department for
13 administrative matters.
14 What would you like to know now?
15 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, we don't seem to be establishing
16 communication here, and it is very simple. In the
17 testimonies, previous ones and now, we have been
18 mentioning the SUP and the public security station. Is
19 that the same thing?
20 A. What do you mean SUP?
21 Q. The secretariat of internal affairs, to put
22 it in full.
23 A. I don't know how much -- how far you're
24 acquainted with this. I'm acquainted with this very
1 Q. Well, then you should know.
2 A. When I was working, the OSUP didn't exist.
3 Q. The OSUP didn't exist.
4 A. That is to say, the public security has
5 changed. At one point it was called the OSUP, the
6 general secretariat of the interior.
7 Q. Well, then, please tell me when this changed
9 A. I'm not interested in that.
10 Q. Please tell me when these changes came into
12 A. I cannot remember when the changes took
13 place, but I know that we were then -- we were called
14 the public security station of Prijedor.
15 Q. Was this while you were in Prijedor or while
16 you were in Belgrade?
17 A. I cannot remember. Believe me, it was a long
18 time ago.
19 Q. Very well. Let's go back now. Whether the
20 OSUP and the public security station, are they one and
21 the same thing? According to functioning, did they
22 just change their name, change their heading? Were
23 they actually the same thing?
24 A. Well, yes, I suppose they were.
25 Q. Or were they not?
1 A. Well, just the title, the name changed.
2 Everything else stayed the same.
3 Q. Very well. You don't know when the
4 organisation of the public security stations, as they
5 became called, were introduced.
6 A. I can't remember.
7 Q. Now we're going to use the term "the public
8 security station" to facilitate matters. I can see
9 that you are not feeling well, but please do try and
11 The public security station of Prijedor, what
12 did it consist of? What was its composition?
13 A. I've already enumerated.
14 Q. Well, please try again because we seem to
15 have mixed up the SUP and the public security station,
16 so let's do it again, if you would, please.
17 A. The public security station became a general
18 part for traffic safety, for crime. There was another
19 department for state security, which was slightly
20 separate. Then there was this general administrative
22 Q. Within the frameworks of that SJB, the public
23 security station, was there a police station, an
24 Omarska police station? And we spoke about that. We
25 discussed it all day yesterday.
1 A. The department --
2 Q. No, I'm talking about the Prijedor police
3 station. Was it within the composition of the SJB, the
4 public security station? I seem to be unclear on
6 A. Well, yes, it is within its composition.
7 Q. Very well, then. What was the name of the
8 superior, the number one man, in the police station of
9 Prijedor, which is a component part of the SJB of
11 A. Could you repeat that question, please?
12 Q. What was the name of the number one man of
13 the Prijedor police station within the composition of
14 the SJB station of Prijedor?
15 A. The first man is the chief.
16 Q. Yes. Let's skip over that. We've now come
17 to this particular unit. The station itself.
18 A. The commander of the station or leader. Now,
19 it depends who you're thinking of.
20 Q. I'm thinking of the commander of the Prijedor
21 police station. That's all.
22 A. The commander of the police station, Dule
23 Jankovic, that was his name.
24 Q. Did he have a deputy?
25 A. Yes, he did.
1 Q. Did he have his assistants?
2 A. Yes, he did.
3 Q. Did he -- within the -- that is to say, we're
4 now talking about the police station you worked in
5 yourself. Was there a -- were there shifts, duty
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Was there a duty officer? Were you ever the
9 officer on duty, the duty officer?
10 A. What do you mean by "duty officer"?
11 Q. Well, you explain to me. Did you ever
12 perform the function of somebody who was on duty at the
13 police station in Prijedor?
14 A. Well, this term "on duty" or "duty" does not
15 exist. I don't know what it means.
16 Q. Was there no operative duty officer, officer
17 on duty, whatever you like to call it?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Well, you don't know what it means. Thank
20 you, then.
21 A. I do apologise.
22 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Witness,
23 would you please answer the questions put to you by the
25 A. I wish to ask you something.
1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
2 please continue.
3 Yes, witness, you wanted to say something?
4 Thank you.
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I cannot answer
6 a question or a word or function that I don't know
7 about, and that is why I say that this term "duty" or
8 "on duty," I don't understand what is meant by it.
9 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation]
10 Q. Well, Mr. Mrkalj, we're going to try and
11 simplify matters still further. If the station is open
12 from 7.00 to 2.00 p.m., that's one shift, then there's
13 another shift --
14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
15 excuse me, please. The witness said that he doesn't
16 know what it means "duty" or "on duty." Why are you
17 going to explain it to him? You are not the witness,
18 Mr. Simic. Carry on. The witness says he doesn't know
19 what "duty" or "on duty" means, so there's no need to
20 go on explaining. Just move on.
21 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Very well,
22 Your Honour.
23 Q. Mr. Mrkalj, I'm now going to talk for a
24 minute about Omarska and ask you a question in that
25 regard for a brief moment.
1 You said yesterday that you had serious
2 injuries inflicted on you by the fact that a pipe was
3 placed in your mouth, your teeth were broken, so on and
4 so forth. Was any assistance given to you in Omarska,
5 medical treatment of any kind?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did you ask for treatment? Did you ask
8 anybody for treatment?
9 A. I wasn't in a position to.
10 Q. Thank you very much. When you left
11 Omarska --
12 A. Excuse me. I didn't finish my answer. I
13 wasn't in a position -- I was in a very poor
14 condition. My condition was so poor that they had to
15 carry me, and how could I ask for treatment --
16 Q. Well, yes, but a few days later, perhaps. A
17 few days later, perhaps?
18 A. Sir, I was not allowed to breathe, let alone
19 anything else.
20 Q. When you left Omarska, did you apply for
21 treatment anywhere, in a medical institution of any
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Where and when? What institution?
25 A. I received treatment. I had my first
1 surgical intervention in Croatia, in Karlovac, that is
2 to say, when we left. And then in another country I
3 had another surgical -- I underwent surgery for a
4 second time. Then I had treatment, many years of
5 treatment. After that I haven't --
6 Q. I didn't ask you about psychiatric
7 treatment. We'll come to that later on. I shall be
8 happy to come to that later on but I'm asking you the
9 other thing first.
10 Mr. Mrkalj, have you retained any documents
11 about your treatment, concerning your treatment, the
12 treatment you underwent?
13 A. I think I do have the documents, yes, and
14 that I could come by that documentation.
15 Q. Very well. Yesterday you said that when you
16 arrived in Omarska that you knew Mr. Meakic as a
17 colleague, Mr. Kvocka as well, and Mr. Radic, that you
18 knew them as policemen, and that you knew most of the
19 investigators, interrogators as well; is that correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You also said yesterday, according to the
22 transcript and according to my memory, you repeated on
23 two occasions during your testimony yesterday that an
24 individual, a guard, a member of the security detail,
25 said, told you that Mr. Kvocka was the warden. Can you
1 tell us the name of the individual who told you that?
2 A. Yes, I can.
3 Q. What was his name?
4 A. I should now like to address the Presiding
6 I can give the name but in confidentiality,
7 if confidentiality is guaranteed. But I ask for
8 guarantees for his security.
9 Q. Five years has passed from the war; eight
10 years has gone by since Omarska. You can be quite
11 certain that you have no reason not to state the name
12 of that individual. You are testifying publicly too
13 here today, are you not?
14 A. That is my proposal. I am putting a concrete
15 proposal forward.
16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Madam
17 Hollis, do you have any indications with respect to
18 confidentiality, if a name is pronounced?
19 MS. HOLLIS: Your Honour, the witness has
20 expressed concerns about this person's safety who
21 befriended him in the camp, and we would suggest that
22 confidentiality would be appropriate in that instance,
23 just as it is with victims and witnesses.
24 [Trial Chamber confers]
25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Simic,
1 do you have any objection to allow confidentiality so
2 that the witness can give the name?
3 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
4 we have no objections; we agree. But I once again
5 state that I do not consider it necessary. But we
6 agree just to save time.
7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] We are now
8 going to go into private session to retain -- not to
9 disclose the identity of the person.
10 [Private session]
13 page 2870 redacted – private session
13 page 2871 redacted – private session
13 page 2872 redacted – private session
13 page 2873 redacted – private session
13 page 2874 redacted – private session
19 --- Recess taken at 10.39 a.m.
20 --- On resuming at 11.20 a.m.
21 [Open session].
22 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] You may be
24 We're waiting for the witness.
25 [The witness entered court]
1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] The Chamber
2 has been informed by the Victims and Witnesses Unit
3 that the witness had a slight accident yesterday. We
4 thought it was something that happened as a consequence
5 of these unfortunate events. We know that the witness
6 wants to continue but it is the opinion of the Chamber
7 that we should continue tomorrow, not today.
8 Witness, we appreciate your willingness to
9 continue but we feel that you are not in the best
10 condition to testify so we're going to have a break
11 until tomorrow, and you will continue tomorrow. In the
12 meantime you will have a rest, the nurse or the doctor
13 are going to treat you following the accident you had,
14 and tomorrow we will be able to hear you. So we are
15 going to hear you, but tomorrow.
16 What the Chamber is going to do is to have a
17 break in this testimony -- I'm calling it a pause
18 respecting the will of the witness to continue -- and
19 we will resume with the cross-examination by the
20 Defence tomorrow at 9.30. So until tomorrow.
21 Now, Witness, I would like you to leave
22 before the Judges.
23 Mr. Usher, will you escort the witness out,
25 [The witness stands down]
1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So the
2 hearing is adjourned until tomorrow at 9.30.
3 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at
4 11.28 a.m., to be reconvened on Friday,
5 the 9th day of June, 2000, at 9.30 a.m.