Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 1268

1 Thursday, 9 February 2006

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.06 a.m.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: I call on the Prosecution.

7 MS. VALABHJI: Good morning, Your Honours. My name is Nisha

8 Valabhji appearing on behalf of the Prosecution.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Ms. Valabhji.

10 May the witness please make the declaration.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

12 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


14 [Witness answered through interpreter]

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

16 MS. VALABHJI: May I proceed, Your Honour?

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, you may.

18 Examination by Ms. Valabhji:

19 Q. Good morning, Witness. Can you hear me?

20 A. Good morning. Yes, I can.

21 Q. Please state your name for the Court.

22 A. Jasna Denona.

23 Q. What is your nationality?

24 A. I'm a Croat.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: I couldn't hear the name.

Page 1269

1 MS. VALABHJI: Should I start over?

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: No, thank you very much. You may proceed.

3 MS. VALABHJI: Thank you.

4 Q. In what year were you born?

5 A. On the 22nd of September 1976.

6 Q. Where were you living in 1991?

7 A. Bruska.

8 Q. And prior to that, where did you live?

9 A. In Bruska.

10 Q. Where did you go to school?

11 A. I attended four years of elementary school in Bruska and the

12 remainder of the elementary school in Benkovac.

13 Q. How old were you in 1991?

14 A. I was 15.

15 Q. I'd like to ask you a few questions about Bruska. Do you know

16 approximately, that is can you give us a rough idea, of the population of

17 Bruska in 1991?

18 A. There were about 230 to 240 people.

19 Q. Is Marinovici a hamlet which is part of Bruska?

20 A. Yes. That's a hamlet in Bruska, a part of Bruska.

21 Q. Do you recall -- do you recall approximately how many houses

22 comprised this hamlet?

23 A. About eight houses.

24 Q. In terms of ethnicity, how would you characterise Marinovici?

25 A. There were Croats there.

Page 1270

1 Q. And what about Bruska?

2 A. Four to five homes were inhabited by Serbs. The rest were Croats.

3 Q. How would you describe the relations between the Serb families and

4 the Croat inhabitants of the village?

5 A. The relations were proper. They were not hostile in any way, and

6 they did not indicate in any way that something of the sort that happened

7 could in fact happen.

8 Q. Did you, from time to time, in 1991, and prior to December 1991,

9 travel outside your village?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Where did you go?

12 A. Mostly to Benkovac.

13 Q. Do you recall seeing soldiers during these trips?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Do you remember when that was in that year?

16 A. That was in 1991, from September onwards.

17 Q. Do you recall what these soldiers were wearing?

18 A. Olive-drab uniforms of the then JNA army. Some wore camouflage

19 uniforms, without any particular insignia.

20 Q. Thank you. I'd now like to turn to the events of the 21st of

21 December 1991. Where were you on the evening of the 21st of December

22 1991?

23 A. In my family home.

24 Q. Who was there with you?

25 A. I was there. My mother. Neighbour Jeka, neighbour Soka and

Page 1271

1 neighbour Dragan.

2 Q. Your father was not there that evening?

3 A. No. My father was in Zadar on business, and -- because he was

4 unable to commute to work from Bruska.

5 Q. Why was he unable to do that?

6 A. That was because bus lines were cut off, interrupted.

7 Q. Do you recall why that was, why the bus lines were cut off?

8 A. Because of the barricades on the road and because the Serbian side

9 was defending its own state.

10 Q. Were the neighbours you mentioned, the ones at your house that

11 evening, Serbian or Croatian?

12 A. I cannot say that because I didn't see them, but based on what

13 they said, I suppose that they were Serbs.

14 Q. I was actually referring -- going back again to the evening of the

15 21st of December. You mentioned some neighbours were at your house that

16 evening. I think you mentioned their names, Jeka and Soka and Dragan.

17 Were these neighbours Serbian or Croatian?

18 A. Soka was a Serb and Dragan and Jeka were Croats. So was my mom.

19 Q. And what were you doing that evening, you, your mother and the

20 neighbours?

21 A. We chatted about general things, about life in general.

22 Q. Do you recall what time it was?

23 A. It was about 19.45.

24 Q. Tell us what happened next.

25 A. Somebody knocked at the door. I stood up and went to the front

Page 1272

1 door. I asked who it was. A male voice told me that it was the Krajina

2 Police. At first, I thought the voice was familiar, so I asked them again

3 who it was. The answer was again, "the Krajina Police." And then I was

4 already a bit frightened and asked them the third time, in a louder voice,

5 well, tell me who it is, in fact. And then the answer was, "The Krajina

6 Police. Martic's men. Open up." And I could hear a burst of fire

7 outside the door.

8 I went back to the room where we were sitting. I told the party

9 there that I was told that it was the Krajina Police at the door.

10 Neighbour Dragan stood up and went to the front door because he was the

11 only man among us. He probably wanted to protect us.

12 Q. What happened next?

13 A. Next, I heard Dragan opening the door, and I heard them ask

14 Dragan, "What are you doing here in Boro's house?" I could conclude then

15 that they knew Dragan because they knew him name and that they knew whose

16 house it was. Boro is my father's name. To that, he responded by saying

17 that we were just chatting, not doing anything in particular. He then

18 asked them whether he could go over to his mother, and let her know

19 that -- probably he thought that he was going to be taken away. That was

20 when my mom persuaded us to try and flee the house.

21 Q. Did you then flee the house?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Where did you run?

24 A. We ran out into the garden and across a wall. When we crossed the

25 wall, I could hear a burst of fire behind me, some four to five metres

Page 1273

1 away. I noticed this because there were lights on, it was night-time, and

2 the second burst of fire hit near my legs and hit me. That was how I was

3 wounded.

4 Q. Can you tell us what happened after that?

5 A. I was hit in my hip and in my arm. I could no longer move. My

6 mother was two to three metres ahead of me. She came back to help me move

7 away behind a wall into a vineyard.

8 Q. How long did you stay behind that wall?

9 A. About two hours.

10 Q. Did you ask your companions to get help?

11 A. Yes. There were neighbours Jeka and Soka with us behind the wall.

12 The first thing they did was they tied up my arm so that they could stop

13 the bleeding. They used their clothing to do this. When the pain became

14 unbearable, I told Soka to go and fetch her husband, Sveto, because he was

15 the only one there who had a car, in order for him to take me to the

16 doctor's. I could no longer stand the pain. She told me that God knows

17 where Sveto was, and she was afraid of going into the house because of the

18 shooting.

19 Q. What happened then?

20 A. Next, neighbour Jeka said that she was going to check what was

21 happening in the house that was closest to us, although there seemed to be

22 some fire, but she was concerned about the fact that one couldn't hear

23 anything. This house belonged to Roko Marinovic, who was killed that very

24 night.

25 Q. Did you proceed to go to the house of Roko Marinovic?

Page 1274

1 A. Yes, yes. We proceeded to the house, but before that, we heard

2 Jeka shouting and beckoning to us and wailing and giving us different

3 names.

4 Q. Do you know why she was shouting, wailing?

5 A. Because they were killed.

6 Q. Who was killed?

7 A. At the gate to the yard there, she found the dead body of her

8 husband, Petar Marinovic, and that of her neighbour, Petar Draca.

9 Q. Did you also see the dead?

10 A. Can I just enter a correction? It is not Petar Draca but Sveto

11 Draca. I could see it on the screen before me.

12 In the front yard, there were Roko Marinovic and Dusko Marinovic,

13 his son, dead as well.

14 Q. How many were lying dead near that house?

15 A. Four people.

16 Q. Did you then proceed to go into the house of Roko Marinovic?

17 A. Yes. I went in. My mother took the bloody clothes off me, found

18 some bandages, and dressed my wound.

19 Q. Did you encounter anybody in the house?

20 A. Yes. Ljilja Marinovic was in the house, the wife of the killed

21 Dusko Marinovic.

22 Q. What did she tell you?

23 A. She told us that her brother-in-law, Ante, was wounded and that he

24 went to Kalanjeva Draga which is a hamlet next to Bruska, that he had gone

25 over there but that she wasn't sure whether he actually managed to reach

Page 1275

1 the hamlet or not.

2 Q. What happened after that?

3 A. Joso Marinovic came. He is the father of Dragan Marinovic, who

4 was killed. He told us that both his son and his wife had been killed.

5 That's how I learned of the death of two more people.

6 Q. Did he tell you how they were killed?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did anyone else come to the house later that night?

9 A. Yes. After him, Dusan Draca came. He was the father of the

10 killed Sveto Draca. He told us that at the end of our hamlet, there were

11 four people there who were dead, and he could not see their faces because

12 it was night. However, we assumed who these people were and this was in

13 fact confirmed to us the following morning at daybreak.

14 Q. Who were these people who were killed?

15 A. They were Krsto Marinovic, his wife Drasa Marinovic, Stana

16 Marinovic, and her mother-in-law, Masa Marinovic.

17 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction, sister-in-law.


19 Q. Did you find out how they were killed?

20 A. The following morning, my mother and our neighbour Kata went over

21 to see them, and told us that they were hit -- they were killed by shots.

22 Their bodies were bullet-riddled.

23 Q. As to the dead whom you saw near the house of Roko Marinovic, were

24 you able to see how they were killed?

25 A. They were all killed by weapons.

Page 1276

1 Q. How many people were killed in your hamlet that night?

2 A. Ten.

3 Q. Of the ten people who were killed, how many were Serbs and how

4 many were Croats?

5 A. One was a Serb, and nine were Croats.

6 Q. Were the victims soldiers or members of any kind of army?

7 A. The Croats were not members of any kind of army, and Sveto Draca

8 was a member of the JNA, the then armed forces, but he had the olive-drab

9 uniform and he had been mobilised.

10 Q. Do you recall what his views were on being mobilised?

11 A. According to what he said, he didn't want to be mobilised. On a

12 number of occasions he actually refused, but in the end, he was mobilised

13 by force and so presumably there was nothing he could do.

14 Q. Do you know what he was doing that night?

15 A. He just came to pass the time. He went to play cards, to

16 socialise, basically.

17 Q. Are you aware of whether or not he was carrying weapons that

18 night?

19 A. As far as I know, no, he wasn't.

20 Q. How would you characterise his relations with the Croat families?

21 A. They were good, friendly.

22 Q. Do you know whether any of the others who were killed that night

23 were carrying weapons?

24 A. No, they didn't.

25 Q. When you heard the knock at the door that night, did you form an

Page 1277

1 idea as to how many men there were?

2 A. According to my estimate, three, what I could tell behind the

3 closed doors.

4 Q. How did you arrive at this estimate?

5 A. Since there was full moon, I could see the outline of these people

6 through the glass door, and the second person, who was talking to me, was

7 next to the door, to the left of me. And the third person was the one who

8 was shooting, next to the house.

9 Q. As you were running away from your house, did you hear the men say

10 anything else?

11 A. Yes. One shouted, "They got away," when they saw us jumping over

12 the wall. And he said, "Uh-oh, they got away. They are fleeing."

13 That's what the -- that's when the shooting started.

14 Q. Thank you. I'd like to turn now to the following day. What

15 happened the following day?

16 A. The following day, nobody from the then-authorities visited us at

17 all. We didn't get any medical treatment or assistance. It was only as

18 late as the evening, at around 8.00.

19 Q. What happened at 8.00?

20 A. That -- sorry, 6.00.

21 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter's correction, 6.00 in the

22 evening.

23 MS. VALABHJI: Okay.

24 Q. What happened at 6.00 the next day in the evening?

25 A. The ambulance arrived, and a woman came along with them, and she

Page 1278

1 told me she was from the police in Benkovac. She took a statement from me

2 as to what happened on that evening.

3 Q. Where did the ambulance take you?

4 A. To the medical centre at Benkovac, and then later on the hospital

5 in Knin.

6 Q. What kind of treatment did you receive?

7 A. I was hospitalised in Knin, and I had surgery. And I stayed there

8 for a week, so I was receiving medication and I had had surgery.

9 Q. After that stay of one week in the hospital, where did you go?

10 A. I went to Ljilja Marinovic's parents' because she came to pick up

11 myself and her brother-in-law, Ante, from the hospital at that time, and

12 since she had gone to stay with her parents previously, I mean after those

13 tragic events, we stayed at their place for two days.

14 Q. And then where did you stay?

15 A. And then I returned to Bruska, and I stayed there until the 10th

16 of January 1992.

17 Q. How did you feel staying there after everything that had happened?

18 A. It is difficult to put it into words. Terrible. I have no way of

19 telling you, in fact.

20 Q. Let's turn to early 1992, after, I believe, you had -- I withdraw

21 that.

22 What happened after the 10th of January?

23 A. I had another surgery scheduled at the Knin hospital because I had

24 a fairly big wound on my arm, and because of the size of the wound, they

25 were unable to stitch it up straight away. So another surgery was

Page 1279

1 scheduled for later. When I arrived in Knin, the hospital was overbooked

2 and they had no extra beds so I couldn't be admitted. So I couldn't stay

3 at the hospital, so I stayed at my former teacher's house, who lives in

4 Knin, and I stayed with her up until the 15th of January. And then I was

5 admitted to hospital on the 15th, so that my arm could be stitched up.

6 Q. And how long was that stay in the hospital?

7 A. I stayed for two days, and I was released from hospital on the

8 17th of January. And on that day I returned to Bruska once again.

9 Q. I have a few more questions on the injuries you sustained on the

10 night of the 21st. After January 1992, did you have to go any further

11 surgery?

12 A. Yes. I had another surgery in April 1992, and it was in Zagreb.

13 And then again in 1996, and that was in Zadar.

14 Q. And thereafter?

15 A. And the last surgery was in 1999 in Rijeka. It was in November

16 1999.

17 Q. How is your arm today?

18 A. I've got permanent damage and I am -- I've got 50 per cent

19 disability and my right arm is much weaker than my left arm, and it's a

20 bit disfigured.

21 Q. Did you at some point return to your family home in Bruska?

22 A. You mean after those events or what?

23 Q. Yeah.

24 A. Yes. After 1995.

25 Q. In what state did you find your family home?

Page 1280

1 A. The house had been ransacked, destroyed, and some ammunition had

2 been stored in those houses. It must have been used as a kind of

3 warehouse during the times that we were not there, since we had left.

4 Q. Did you hear of killings in other villages in this area, in the

5 area?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. How did you hear of this?

8 A. Through the media, on television and in daily papers.

9 Q. Do you recall which villages these were?

10 A. Skabrnja, Nadin, Ervanik [phoen], Medvidja.

11 Q. How would you characterise these villages, in terms of ethnicity?

12 A. Skabrnja was entirely Croat. Nadin was a mixed village and

13 Medvidja was the same.

14 Q. Do you recall when approximately you heard this in the media?

15 A. Skabrnja happened in November 1991. Nadin at around the same

16 time, and Medvidja in either January or February 1992.

17 Q. Going back to the period after the killings took place in Bruska,

18 do you recall whether these killings were reported in the media at the

19 time?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. How did -- did you see reports in the media yourself or did you

22 hear about it some other way? How did you -- how do you know this?

23 A. As to the Croatian television, I didn't see it myself, but I was

24 told about it when I got to Zadar. I was told that that had been reported

25 on Croat television, because in Bruska we were unable to watch Croat

Page 1281

1 television at the time, and dailies in Knin reported on those events.

2 There were short articles about that.

3 Q. Were you interviewed about what took place in Bruska after it

4 happened?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Who interviewed you?

7 A. First of all, as I've already mentioned, there was this female

8 police officer. I don't know her name because she didn't actually

9 introduce herself. And later on, when I was at the hospital in Knin, a

10 statement was taken by Milan Burza who was a police officer, and

11 representative of the JNA, who didn't introduce himself either.

12 Q. Any other interviews, to your recollection?

13 A. In 1992, yes, in Zadar.

14 Q. Do you recall who interviewed you in Zadar?

15 A. A police officer, but I can't remember the name.

16 Q. When you were interviewed, did you indicate which unit or army the

17 men belonged to, that is the men who came to your house on the 21st of

18 December 1991?

19 A. Yes. I said in my statement that they said that they were Krajina

20 Militias and that they were Martic's men.

21 Q. Did you -- did you ever hear of an investigation into the killings

22 in your village of Bruska?

23 A. No. I'm not aware of that.

24 Q. Did you ever hear of persons being punished for these killings?

25 A. No. I don't know of anyone having been punished for that.

Page 1282

1 MS. VALABHJI: Your Honours, I would now like to show -- or to

2 have displayed a document. It bears B/C/S ERN 02915460. Unfortunately

3 unable to see the monitor display right now. It seems to be doing a self

4 test. Is it on the screen? I seem to be the only one -- oh, there we go.

5 Okay.

6 Q. Witness, I showed you this document in proofing yesterday. Prior

7 to that, had you seen it?

8 A. No, never.

9 MS. VALABHJI: Could we scroll down to the end of the document?

10 This is on the one and only page of the B/C/S version, and page 2 of the

11 English version. Are we there? Okay. Could we move it a little so that

12 the name at the bottom can be seen fully? Thank you.

13 Q. Witness, do you recognise the name at the end of the document?

14 A. Yes. That's the name of Milan Burza.

15 Q. Do you recall speaking to this individual after the events in

16 question?

17 A. Yes, I did, on one occasion.

18 Q. Can you tell us about this occasion?

19 A. It was mostly when he asked me to tell him about the events and I

20 also met him on one occasion when I went home to my own house. If we go

21 back in time, it was when I returned to Bruska from Ljilja's parents'

22 house and Milan Burza took us from the bus station in Benkovac to Bruska

23 in a police car.

24 Q. And when you told him about the events, do you recall when that

25 was, when that conversation took place?

Page 1283

1 A. It was in December. I was at the hospital, and I can't recall the

2 exact day.

3 Q. Okay. Witness, please take a moment to read this document.

4 MS. VALABHJI: Could we now scroll back up from top and then to

5 bottom slowly? I know the quality isn't very good unfortunately. I also

6 have a hard copy just in case -- if it's somehow easier to discern on a

7 printed paper instead.

8 Could I have the assistance of the usher in also furnishing a hard

9 copy, just in case it's easier to look at?

10 Q. Have you finished perusing the document?

11 A. Yes, I have.

12 Q. Do you have knowledge of the contents of this document?

13 A. As far as I can tell, because it's rather illegible, some things

14 are correct and others have been slightly modified.

15 Q. Okay. What in your view has been modified?

16 A. For example, that Dragan asked who was there when there was a

17 knock on the door. It wasn't true. I asked and I talked to them. And

18 the fact that I couldn't recall what direction the shots came from because

19 of the pain, this is something that I have never, ever said. This

20 sentence has never crossed my lips. And I also said that it was Krajina

21 Militias and Martic's men and I don't know for what reason it hasn't been

22 recorded in this document. And it's a rather concise rendition, if we

23 compare it to the actual account of what happened that night.

24 Q. Apart from these points which you have kindly highlighted, is this

25 record generally accurate?

Page 1284

1 A. And I don't know whether this detail that we didn't have

2 electricity for six days or whatever, it was three days, and the rest more

3 or less figures, and I'm not really familiar with these dates. I'm not

4 sure what this date in the top left corner refers to, I don't know. If it

5 is supposed to be the date on which the statement was taken, in that case,

6 it's totally incorrect because it was certainly not on that day.

7 Q. Could it have been on the date that is mentioned on the third line

8 under the words, "Official record"? Which I think that date is the 27th

9 of December. Is that more likely?

10 A. That's more likely. The 27th might be true but I'm not sure. On

11 the other hand, I'm 100 per cent sure that it was certainly not on the

12 25th.

13 MS. VALABHJI: Thank you. Your Honours, I would like to tender

14 this document into evidence.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

16 please be given an exhibit number.

17 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit number 134, Your Honours.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

19 MS. VALABHJI: Thank you.

20 Q. Witness, could you -- pardon me.

21 MS. VALABHJI: Could Mr. Registrar please scroll to the top of the

22 document, in particular the top left-hand corner? Thank you.

23 Q. Witness, could you please read the first two lines, above the

24 words, "Number and date"?

25 Perhaps I'm not entirely clear in my question. In which case I'll

Page 1285

1 repeat. We are looking at the very top two lines, at the top left-hand

2 corner of the document, very short lines.

3 Could the witness please read those two lines, out loud?

4 A. "SUP Knin and SJB Benkovac."

5 Q. One last question. The author of the document, whom we've talked

6 about already, was he a Croat or a Serb?

7 A. Serb.

8 MS. VALABHJI: Thank you, Your Honours. I have nothing further.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can we just look at the tail end of this document,

10 please, the original one, the B/C/S version? Thank you very much.

11 MS. VALABHJI: Thank you, Your Honour. Nothing further.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

13 Mr. Milovancevic?

14 Cross-examination by Mr. Milovancevic:

15 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

16 Q. Ma'am, I am Defence counsel for the accused Martic. According to

17 the Rules, the Defence is entitled to put a few questions to you after the

18 Prosecution has done so and I will put to you some questions which have to

19 do with these events.

20 You said that it was the evening on the 21st of December 1991, and

21 that you were in your home with your mother and two lady neighbours. One

22 of them was Soka a Serb, and the other, a neighbour of yours, was a Croat,

23 Jeka Marinovic; is that right?

24 A. Yes, that's correct. And there was Dragan too.

25 Q. Since we do understand each other, we have to make a pause between

Page 1286

1 my question and your answer, in order for both to be interpreted and

2 entered into the record. Therefore in addition to you four women, the

3 only male person in the house that night was Dragan Marinovic. How old

4 was he?

5 A. 23?

6 Q. Dragan Marinovic is a Croat by ethnicity; is that right?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. In your statement, you explained that your neighbour, Sofia, Soka,

9 Draca belonged to one of the two Serb families in the village; is that

10 right?

11 A. Yes. There were four Serb families or, rather, homes in Bruska.

12 Two houses were in Donja Bruska and two Draca households closer to our

13 home in Bruska.

14 Q. You also stated that on the evening, your father was away as were

15 your two sisters and brother, that they were in Zadar attending school, is

16 that true?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. You explained that at around 8 p.m., somebody knocked at the door

19 and that when you first asked who it was, you felt the voice was

20 unfamiliar -- was familiar. You heard the voice say, the second

21 time, "The Krajina Police. Open up." Now, when you heard this voice,

22 somebody answering the second time, was it the same voice as the one you

23 heard the first time answering your question?

24 A. All the three times, it was always the same voice answering.

25 Q. You said that after giving you the answer the second time, the

Page 1287

1 Krajina Police said, "Open up," and then you heard a burst of fire and

2 that was when you decided to leave the house?

3 A. No. It was after they said the Krajina Police, the Martic's men,

4 the third time that I heard a burst of fire.

5 Q. When you returned into the kitchen, you said that Dragan Marinovic

6 said that he was going to answer the door, as the only male person in the

7 house; is that correct?

8 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter notes that if the witness did answer

9 the interpreter did not hear the answer.

10 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. You said that upon opening the door, Dragan Marinovic said, "If

12 you have to take me away, can I at least see my mother first?"

13 A. Yes, that's right.

14 Q. In your statement you gave to the Prosecution and in your answers

15 today, you said that the four of you fled the house - this was your

16 mother's suggestion - that you went into the back garden and across the

17 field behind a wall; is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Do you recall whether, before Dragan Marinovic stated those

20 words, "If you have to take me away, at least can I see my mother," was

21 there something else that you saw that frightened your mother and you?

22 A. No. It was only their conversation when they asked him, "Dragan,

23 what are you doing in Boro's house?"

24 Q. Isn't it correct that to the question, "Dragan what are you doing

25 in Boro's house," he answered he wasn't doing anything special, they were

Page 1288

1 just socialising, was it after that that he said, "If you have to take me

2 away, may I see my mother first?"

3 A. Let me think. Yes, when they asked him, he said, no, we are not

4 doing anything, we are just chatting, that's right.

5 Q. The next situation you described during this dramatic evening was

6 that you went behind the house across the field, it was dark, there was

7 moonlight, and then you heard somebody say, "They are going away." And

8 was that when you heard a burst of fire?

9 A. Yes. I heard a person shout, "They are going away," and then I

10 heard one burst of fire and the second burst of fire aimed at my legs.

11 Q. In your statement, you said that when two neighbours of yours went

12 behind the wall that was in front of you, you were running behind them,

13 you and your mother, and then you felt a flash of heat in your legs and

14 you fell down. Was it then that you realised that you were wounded?

15 A. Yes. I could no longer move. That was when I realised that I had

16 been shot.

17 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel and witness please break

18 before question and answer?

19 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. Your mother came back to fetch you. She dragged you across the

21 wall where you were -- or rather your wounds were dressed with pieces of

22 clothing?

23 A. Yes. They took some of their clothing off and they made a

24 tourniquet in order to stop the bleeding and they covered me up with some

25 clothing because I was cold, and as I was also bleeding, they tried to

Page 1289

1 assuage my situation.

2 Q. You explained that you spent about two hours in the cold behind

3 the wall?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And the pain became unbearable and you asked Soka Draca to go

6 fetch her husband, who had a car, right?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. You explained that Soka was too frightened to do that and that

9 Jeka Marinovic went to the house that was closest to you and when she

10 reached the house she started wailing and shouting out names of people:

11 Is it correct that upon hearing her shout, you joined her where Jeka was

12 and then you saw what you described?

13 A. We would have reached the house anyhow. She was just ahead of us,

14 and we were behind because my mother was practically carrying me.

15 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, in view of the

16 time, it's 10.15, perhaps this would be an appropriate time for a break,

17 by your leave.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Milovancevic.

19 Then we'll take a break and come back at quarter to 11. Court

20 adjourned.

21 --- Recess taken at 10.15 a.m.

22 --- On resuming at 10.45 a.m.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Milovancevic.

24 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

25 Q. Ms. Denona, we broke when we were discussing you seeing Jeka going

Page 1290

1 over to Roko Marinovic's house, whereupon she started wailing and shouting

2 out names of people. You said that you and your mother joined her and you

3 saw the dead bodies of the people who had been killed there in the yard of

4 the house; is that correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. You explained that this house belonged to Roko Marinovic and that

7 next to the gate on the ground you saw the dead body of Petar Marinovic

8 and a couple of metres away the body of Sveto Draca. When you entered the

9 front yard you also saw the bodies of Roko Marinovic and his son Dusko

10 Marinovic, who were killed; is that right?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. You explained that Sveto Draca, a neighbour of yours, who was a

13 Serb and mobilised into the JNA, that he was wearing an olive-drab uniform

14 of the JNA. I did not understand you clearly. Did he wear that uniform

15 that night or was he generally wearing that uniform?

16 A. He was wearing the uniform that night. He was mobilised by the

17 army and probably had a day off on that particular evening.

18 Q. Do you know how Sveto Draca came to be at Roko Marinovic's house?

19 What was he doing there?

20 A. He went over there in the evening to pass the time, to wile the

21 time away. He came to see Dusko who he was good friends with.

22 Q. Thank you. As you entered Roko Marinovic's yard and saw the

23 unfortunate people killed, lying on the ground, including Roko Marinovic

24 and his son Dusko Marinovic, you explained that you entered the house and

25 saw Ljilja Marinovic there, the wife of Dusko Marinovic who was killed; is

Page 1291

1 that right?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. You said that as you entered the house, you saw Ljilja coming down

4 the stairs, and she said that she was upstairs when they came and killed

5 the four men; is that right?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. You explained that that evening, Ljilja Marinovic, the wife of

8 Dusko Marinovic who was killed, was upstairs with two children of hers,

9 son Jure, who was one and a half years old, and daughter Sonja, who was

10 over two years old, and with the children of Sveto and Sofia, Soka, Draca,

11 the latter was with you the night when you were shot at.

12 MS. VALABHJI: Pardon me, Your Honours, I'm just wondering, is

13 Mr. Milovancevic referring to the transcript of today's proceedings in

14 this question?

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Milovancevic?

16 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'm putting

17 questions which proceed directly from the text of the statement the

18 witness gave to the OTP. The statement was delivered to you and I want to

19 verify the contents, although the gist of it was confirmed here by the

20 witness today. If necessary, I may cite the pages that I'm quoting for

21 but I just wanted to save time.

22 MS. VALABHJI: That's okay. I just wanted to make sure where it

23 was coming from, because my learned colleague mentioned -- said, "You

24 explained and so on." And I wasn't -- I didn't think that that was in

25 today's transcript. I think now my learned colleague has explained where

Page 1292

1 it's coming from. Thank you.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Ms. Valabhji.

3 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] In my further questions, I will

4 clearly draw the line to make it clear what I'm quoting.

5 Q. Ms. Denona, you explained that Ljilja Marinovic was taking care

6 not only of her children but of Sofija Marinovic's daughter -- children as

7 well and that she -- these -- she was there with an elderly man who was

8 about 100 years old and he was sleeping at the time - he couldn't hear

9 anything - and the children were Dusko, about 3 years of age, and

10 Sladjana, about four years of age. At least that's what you state in the

11 statement?

12 A. Yes, that's what I said in my statement but this person who was

13 100 years old was not upstairs. He was on the ground floor, and he was

14 asleep in his room. Nobody interfered with him.

15 Q. In your statement to the OTP, and this is something that you

16 reiterated today, that the night that you entered Roko Marinovic's house

17 where you came upon Ljilja Marinovic, is it right that you heard that

18 her -- you also heard that her brother-in-law was wounded that night and

19 went to the neighbouring village of Kalanje?

20 A. That's what Ljilja told us when we entered the house.

21 Q. You explained that the neighbouring village of Kalanje was Serb.

22 Ante Marinovic was transported to the hospital in Knin; is that right?

23 A. Yes. The people from the village drove him over to the Knin

24 hospital.

25 Q. You explained that as Sveto Draca was killed and there was nobody

Page 1293

1 to drive the car, you had to stay in Roko Marinovic's house where your

2 mother dressed your wounds and that at about midnight, Joso Marinovic

3 came; is that right?

4 A. Yes, that's right.

5 Q. You stated that Joso Marinovic was crying, he's the father of

6 Dragan Marinovic who was with you in your home and who was taken away by

7 the people and that he was crying because he found that both his son,

8 Dragan, and his wife had been killed; is that right?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. You also explained that shortly after Joso Marinovic, Sveto Draca

11 came, who is a Serb neighbour of yours -- or actually, I apologise, his

12 name was Dujan Draca and he's the father of Sveto Draca, who saw his son

13 lying dead in the yard and who said that he had passed by Krsto

14 Marinovic's house where he saw four people dead. You also explained that

15 both the police and the ambulance arrived the following day at about 6.00

16 in the evening; is that right?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Can you tell us how far Benkovac is from your village of Bruska,

19 roughly?

20 A. About 15 kilometres.

21 Q. You -- we told -- from you today that there was no electricity and

22 that there were no phone lines and it was impossible for you to call for

23 any assistance; the only possible way was for you to be driven away

24 somewhere?

25 A. Yes. That's true. We had not had any electricity since the 19th

Page 1294

1 of December. Therefore, three days earlier, the power was cut off.

2 Q. You explained that the evening on the following day, the ambulance

3 arrived together with a lady from the police who took a statement from you

4 and that first you were taken to the health centre in Benkovac and then to

5 the hospital in Knin; is that right?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Were you taken from Benkovac to Knin because your -- you were

8 seriously wounded and they were unable to help you because they were not

9 able to perform surgery?

10 A. The reason was that I was critically wounded and they feared for

11 my life, and because they were unable to provide adequate medical

12 assistance, they forwarded me on.

13 Q. You said that you were taken from the health centre in Benkovac to

14 the hospital in Knin, where you had had surgery that night, that in the

15 hospital you saw Ante Marinovic and that the physicians who were Serbs

16 treated you properly. That's what you stated in your statement for the

17 OTP; is that right?

18 A. Yes, that's right. And that's true.

19 Q. You explained that the wound to your hip was treated in -- well,

20 because it was an entry-exit wound but that your arm had to receive

21 greater treatment. You also said that the hospital was overbooked and you

22 could not be admitted. What does that mean? Were there many wounded?

23 A. There were quite a few wounded in the hospital, and there were no

24 extra beds, which is why I could not be admitted and hospitalised at the

25 time.

Page 1295

1 Q. But still, after a couple of days, you did explain that you were

2 admitted to Knin hospital and you were re-operated, and then because of

3 the severity of your injuries you had several other surgeries; is that

4 correct?

5 A. Yes. On the 15th of January I was admitted to hospital and I was

6 operated on and I was not at the surgical ward where I belonged but I

7 actually had to stay at the gynaecology department, at that ward, and then

8 I had several other surgeries afterwards.

9 Q. You explained that the police from Benkovac talked to you for the

10 first time when they first came to your house in Bruska on the day

11 following the shooting at around 10 p.m., and then they also talked to you

12 for the first time when you were at Knin hospital and it was done by the

13 inspector Milan Burza from the police station in Benkovac, as well as a

14 member of the military police and you don't know his name; is that

15 correct?

16 MS. VALABHJI: Pardon me for interjecting again, Your Honours, but

17 there is a reference to 10 p.m., the police coming at 10 p.m., and my

18 recollection is that the witness has testified that it was 6 p.m. that the

19 police and ambulance came.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Well, that's my recollection, too.

21 Mr. Milovancevic, what is your response to that? I thought the

22 witness had indicated that the following day, after the shooting, an

23 ambulance arrived at 6 p.m., in which there was a police woman who took a

24 statement from her. Not at 10 p.m.

25 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, just so as to do

Page 1296

1 away with any misunderstanding that's what the witness said. I'm just

2 going to ask her to repeat.

3 Q. Mrs. Denona, so as to avoid any misunderstandings in the

4 transcript, I don't suppose -- I don't know whether I've misspoken in

5 putting the question but you did say that the day after your wounding at

6 around 6.00 in the evening, there was the ambulance that arrived from

7 Benkovac, is that true?

8 A. Yes. It was 22 hours after my wounding.

9 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, perhaps the fact

10 that I mentioned the 22 hours was what led to this misunderstanding. The

11 witness has said that it was 22 hours after her having been wounded and

12 not at 2200 hours. So maybe that was the confusion. Thank you.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

14 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. Mrs. Denona, you were submitted the official note from the police

16 station in Benkovac and you have been shown the dates when this was

17 drafted. Was it on the 25th or the 27th of December? And this note was

18 signed by Milan Burza as the authorised official. And you said that

19 something in that statement did not correspond to what you said. But my

20 question is this: Is the gist of your story represented here? Do you

21 remember that conversation? You were at the hospital at the time.

22 A. I do remember the interview, as I've mentioned. The date, I don't

23 know to what extent it is important but it is certainly not the 25th of

24 December. That was not when the statement was taken. And I have already

25 mentioned those details which are misrepresented.

Page 1297

1 Q. Thank you, Mrs. Denona. So in this official note, next to the

2 date at the top of the page, the 25th of December, there is also the text

3 in the main body of the text where the reference is to the fact that you,

4 the citizen, Marinovic -- no. I think Jasna, daughter of about Boro has

5 been interviewed, you're a student born in 1976, your residence or

6 domicile is Bruska, and then it says the date is 27th of December 1991, in

7 relation to several killings. As to what the discrepancies in dates may

8 mean, we can only assume but you did explain that the later Dragan

9 Marinovic didn't ask those people who knocked on the door who was there

10 but that it was you who did that. But in this official record, there is a

11 statement according to which this unknown person, when asked who they

12 were, said the militia of Krajina and then you heard a burst of shooting

13 and then your mother said, "Let's get out." Is that correct?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Can you tell us what's incorrect, just very briefly?

16 A. Dragan did not talk to them. I talked to them. And they didn't

17 say militia or but they said, the third time when I asked the question,

18 they stressed, "Krajina Militias," "Martic's men," and that's when they

19 started shooting. And there upon I went back into the room where we had

20 been sitting all along and then it was only then that Dragan got up and

21 opened the door to them.

22 Q. Thank you. Could you tell us whether in your statement to the

23 Prosecution, apart from mentioning Krajina Militias, you also used the

24 term "Martic's men" because there doesn't appear in your statement to the

25 OTP. Do you remember that detail?

Page 1298

1 A. Yes, I did. This is a detail that will probably stick in my mind

2 for as long as I live. I'm never going to forget it.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... little bit, Mr.

4 Milovancevic. I'm not quite sure, when you talk about a statement to the

5 OTP are you talking about this statement that was handed this morning or

6 is it another statement?

7 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this last couple

8 of phrases referred to this official record. The witness explained about

9 the discrepancies between what she actually said and what is recorded

10 here, and then I asked her later on about her statement to the Prosecution

11 because in the statement that she gave to the Prosecution, and that she

12 signed, the reference is to Krajina Militias. But there is no reference

13 to Martic's men. But it is up to the witness to remember whether she has

14 said it or not. So I'm simply asking her whether she recollects, whether

15 she has any recollection of that or not.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Milovancevic, my question is, I think, very

17 simple. When you refer to the statement that the witness gave to the OTP,

18 are you referring to this statement or are you referring to another

19 statement? I don't want -- I'm not asking you about the questions you're

20 asking. I'm just asking you which statement are you referring to, because

21 I want to follow your line of questioning. Remember that the Bench

22 doesn't have, or at least I don't have, a copy of the statement to the

23 OTP, except for this statement that was admitted into evidence this

24 morning.

25 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this official

Page 1299

1 record is not the statement to the OTP. It comes from the police. But my

2 question to the witness was in conjunction with her statement to the OTP

3 on the 2nd and the 3rd of November of the year 2000.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Mr. Milovancevic. So there is a second

5 statement. That's all I wanted to know: Is there another statement?

6 Thank you.

7 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation]

8 Q. Mrs. Denona, you survived a horrific event and apart from the fact

9 that you were seriously wounded, ten people were killed on that occasion.

10 Have you thought about or have you talked to your friends and relatives

11 about the possible motives for such a horrific act?

12 A. The only explanation is because we were Croats. I don't see any

13 other reason. Why would innocent civilians and especially I myself, I was

14 a child basically, I was only 15 years old, why would we be a hindrance to

15 anyone? I don't see any other reason.

16 Q. Did you see the perpetrators of this crime? You explained that

17 you only saw the outlines of those men but did you manage to get a good

18 look at them?

19 A. I did not.

20 Q. Do you know anything about the late Dusko Marinovic having had a

21 conflict with a person from the neighbouring village, Medvidja, several

22 years before these events and the nickname of that man was Jaker [phoen]

23 or something? I mean you were only 15 at the time but did you hear

24 anything about that?

25 A. No. I have never heard of it.

Page 1300

1 Q. Have you ever heard from anyone -- since the investigation was

2 carried out by the Benkovac police, did you hear about the fact that the

3 military police got involved and the Zadar police as well? Did you hear

4 that this crime could have been the result of a simple revenge?

5 A. I don't know. Revenge for what?

6 Q. There are some data uncovered in the course of that investigation,

7 which are pointing to possible reasons of this, and that is to say that

8 the late Dusko Marinovic had a fight with a man from the neighbouring

9 village, and that man had his finger cut off on that occasion and that's

10 why he was called Kljaka and that apparently he was the one who led this

11 revenge action. Do you know anything about that?

12 A. I know nothing about it and I see no connection that we might

13 possibly have had with anyone wanting to take revenge on somebody else, on

14 one man, in fact.

15 Q. I put this question to you because the information uncovered in

16 the course of the investigation, which has been recorded, point to the

17 fact that those men who came to kill Dusko Marinovic afterwards killed

18 Roko Marinovic and Petar Marinovic and Sveto Draca, who was a Serb, simply

19 because they were in the same house and they wanted to do away with any

20 witnesses.

21 A. And why didn't -- did they come to my house, then, which is 50

22 metres away and why did they shoot at me? And why did they take Dragan

23 from my house? And Krsto's house is at least 150 metres away from Dusko's

24 house. Why did they go there?

25 Q. Mrs. Denona, I would really like to know what the answer to that

Page 1301

1 question is. A normal person wouldn't do that, but what happened did

2 happen. I'm simply asking you whether you had heard anything about that.

3 But apparently you had not. So I was just going to ask you something

4 else.

5 I think in 1993 you gave a statement to Zadar police; is that

6 correct?

7 A. In 1993 or 1992?

8 Q. It might have been 1992. You said that in 1995, you went back and

9 you saw the house in a state that you've described. Do you have any

10 information as to whether Croatian police ever tried to shed light on this

11 crime and whether they uncovered any information?

12 A. I'm not aware of that.

13 Q. Is it correct to say that on that evening, in a situation in which

14 four men from Marinovic family or even nine men in all were killed, one of

15 the threatened Marinovic family went to a Serb village and got help and

16 that you were taken to hospital first at Benkovac and then Knin and that

17 you were fairly treated?

18 A. First of all, as to my injured neighbour, he was a neighbour of

19 mine. Yes, he did go to a Serb village and he was driven to the hospital

20 in Knin. It is also true that the next day, at 6.00 p.m., I was taken to

21 the medical centre in Benkovac and then I was taken to the hospital in

22 Knin, and both I myself and my neighbour were fairly treated at that

23 hospital.

24 Q. Mrs. Denona, I have no further questions. I do apologise for the

25 fact that I had to remind you of those unpleasant events. That's the

Page 1302

1 nature of our job and that's the nature of these court proceedings. Thank

2 you very much.

3 A. Thank you very much.

4 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have completed

5 my questioning.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you. Any re-examination?

7 MS. VALABHJI: Very briefly, Your Honours.

8 Re-examination by Ms. Valabhji:


10 Q. Ms. Denona, earlier this morning we talked about your father not

11 being at home on the night of the 21st of December due to bus lines being

12 cut off and this was because of barricades on the road. Any idea who set

13 up these barricades?

14 A. The Serb side. The army, the paramilitaries, whoever had the

15 upper hand at the time. But mostly the so-called authorities of Krajina.

16 The buses from what they considered to be Croatia, different territory,

17 were not allowed to drive from Zadar to Benkovac.

18 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, just a comment.

19 The colleague from the Prosecution is adding other questions that -- it

20 should be in relation to what was asked in cross-examination. Let's not

21 start all over again because this is a question that had already been put

22 to the witness in the course of the examination-in-chief. Thank you.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Any response to that, Mrs. Valabhji?

24 MS. VALABHJI: I was indeed trying to clarify something which I

25 had not asked previously. Should Your Honours deem that this has caused

Page 1303

1 any prejudice to the Defence, this can perhaps be, I would suggest,

2 rectified, if that very narrow topic -- if they have further questions on

3 that very, very narrow topic, perhaps that would be a manner of remedying

4 any possible prejudice that this new but albeit related question has

5 caused.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Any suggestion on the remedy, Mr. Milovancevic?

7 It's been suggested that if you do want to ask questions on that point

8 later, you would be given the opportunity to do so.

9 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] There is no need for any

10 additional questions on our part. Thank you.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Milovancevic. It is

12 correct, I think that that topic was not canvassed in cross-examination.

13 And I would imagine that in redirect you are really clarifying issues that

14 became unclear during cross-examination.

15 MS. VALABHJI: Yes, Your Honour, I shall be more mindful of that.

16 I just have one other question.

17 Q. Ms. Denona, could you tell us what your maiden name is?

18 A. Marinovic.

19 MS. VALABHJI: Thank you.

20 I have nothing further.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Ms. Valabhji.

22 [Trial Chamber confers]

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mrs. Denona, I have a few questions to ask you.

24 Questioned by the Court:

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: I am mindful of the experiences you've gone

Page 1304

1 through. If what I'm asking you, you don't feel like doing, please feel

2 free to say, "I would rather not do that," okay? Do you have an answer

3 for me? It would be appreciated if you would say it aloud so that it gets

4 recorded. This equipment doesn't record a nod. Okay? Okay.

5 You indicated in your evidence that you were injured on your arm

6 and on the hip. Am I correct?

7 A. Yes, you're correct.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: All right. Are you able to -- or do you mind

9 showing your -- you can't show your arm, not from the clothes you're

10 wearing. Can you describe to the Court the injuries you sustained to your

11 hip?

12 A. These were entry-exit wounds from bullets, both to my hip and my

13 arm. However, my arm was more seriously damaged because both the muscle

14 and the bone were damaged. If you want me to show the arm, I can. And

15 the nerves themselves were damaged.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: How many bullets -- bullet wounds did you sustain

17 to the arm?

18 A. One entry-exit wound to my forearm.

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: And to the hip?

20 A. Also one entry-exit wound.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Did you say it is your forearm that was

22 injured?

23 A. Yes. My forearm.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Your upper arm is not injured?

25 A. No.

Page 1305

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: You indicated that you may be prepared to show your

2 forearm. Would you like to do that?

3 A. Yes, I would.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Please do.

5 A. This is where the bullet entered and that's where it got out.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Explain where did it come in? Where did the bullet

7 enter?

8 A. Here. On this side. And it came out on the other.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: The witness shows an entry wound on the inner side

10 of the forearm, and an exit wound on the exterior side of the forearm.

11 Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

12 A. You're welcome.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: I would like to know more about the barricades that

14 were put up on that day. Can you say who had put up these barricades that

15 made it impossible for your father to commute?

16 A. I suppose it was the Serb army who put up the barricades, which

17 were there since September when the bus service from Benkovac to Zadar was

18 interrupted. The barricades consisted of all sorts of logs, boulders, and

19 so on. And there was no more bus service on the Benkovac-Zadar line.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is the Serb army the same thing as the militia

21 Krajina, Martic's police, or are they two different things?

22 A. That's the same militia or police.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

24 In your evidence-in-chief, you indicated that you observed how the

25 people who came to knock at the door were dressed. If I'm not mistaken

Page 1306

1 you said some were wearing a uniform with an insignia and one was wearing

2 a camouflage uniform. Am I correct?

3 A. The person knocking at my door, I did not see them and I did not

4 comment on their clothes at all. I said that I had seen camouflage and

5 olive-drab uniforms. This was something I saw when I went over to

6 Benkovac. That was where I would see people dressed in uniforms such as

7 these.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: When you went to Benkovac after you were injured or

9 before you were injured, just in your daily movements?

10 A. I would see the uniforms before I was wounded, starting from

11 September onwards. Whenever I needed to go shopping to Benkovac I would

12 see people walking around wearing these uniforms.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. You also indicated that when you finally

14 came back home to Bruska, your home had been ransacked, destroyed, I think

15 you used those two words, "ransacked, destroyed." I would like you to

16 clarify that for me. Was the home ransacked and was it also destroyed?

17 A. It was ransacked and destroyed. That's to say the window frames

18 and the -- were destroyed, the bathroom was entirely destroyed. The power

19 installations and so on and so forth, and that's what I meant when I said

20 destroyed.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Let's take it step by step. When you say the

22 window frames were destroyed, were they pulled out of the wall? Or were

23 they broken?

24 A. The frames were pulled out of the wall.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: And what became of the window panes?

Page 1307

1 A. They were taken away. They weren't there.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: And so that the window was just a hole, there was

3 nothing to close the window with?

4 A. Yes, that's correct. There were just holes. One couldn't close

5 the window because there was nothing to close it with. The frame on which

6 the window rested wasn't there.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: How many windows were destroyed in this manner?

8 A. All the windows that were in the house.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: And you referred a few minutes ago to the bathroom.

10 What happened to the bathroom?

11 A. The toilet bowl, the bathtub, the bath sink, all were pulled out

12 and taken away. The tiles were destroyed. There was a washing machine

13 that was also taken away. The glass that we had in the bathroom was also

14 taken away.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: What kind of glass was this?

16 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: The mirror.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: The mirror, thank you. And you also referred to

18 power installation. Happened to the power installation?

19 A. The switches were all stolen away. Parts of the electric cable

20 were torn so that we had to redo the power installations in the house.

21 Nothing was usable any more. The electricity meter as taken away as well,

22 as was the short-circuit -- the fuse box.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Was your furniture still there in the house?

24 A. No. The furniture was also taken away. There was nothing there.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Your clothes?

Page 1308

1 A. All was taken away or thrown away. I don't know what happened to

2 it.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Where did you stay from the time you were injured

4 up to the time when you came back home and found your home in this

5 condition?

6 A. After I was wounded, on the 18th of January 1992 I went to Zadar.

7 I have been living in Zadar ever since. I go over to my village

8 occasionally, as a guest. I got married in the meantime and I'm living in

9 Zadar now.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: When was this, when you first came home and found

11 your home having been so ransacked and destroyed?

12 A. It was sometime in September 1995.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Where did your mother stay between the day of the

14 injury in 1991 and 1995, when you people came back?

15 A. She also stayed in Zadar.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Did she stay in the same house with you?

17 A. Since we were refugees at the time, she was in private

18 accommodation staying with our relatives and I was staying in the

19 reception centre for the displaced persons in a hotel Zadar.

20 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: In hotel Zagreb.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: In hotel Zagreb?

22 A. Yes, hotel Zagreb in Zadar.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: You indicated in your evidence that Jeka Marinovic

24 shouted names when she got to the home of the neighbour on the day of the

25 shooting, do you remember that? Do you remember that?

Page 1309

1 A. When she entered the house, she saw those dead people, and as soon

2 as she saw them she started shouting their names and wailing. That's

3 true.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: She was shouting the names of the people she saw

5 there lying dead?

6 A. That's right.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just for my refreshment, what names did she shout?

8 A. Petar, Sveto, Roko, and Dusko.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: How did you travel from hospital to Bruska, from

10 hospital in Knin to Bruska when you were discharged from hospital?

11 A. I travelled by bus to Ljilja's parents' house where I stayed for

12 two days, as I said, and then from Ljilja's parents' house I travelled by

13 bus to Benkovac and then from Benkovac to Bruska we were taken by Milan

14 Burza, who was a police officer at the time.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Did he take you in his official -- during his --

16 during the performance of his official duties or was it just a favour he

17 made you?

18 A. Let's say it was a favour, but he was on duty at the time and he

19 probably wanted to do us a service, in view of the state I was in, and in

20 view of the state Ante was in because he was also with us.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you able to recall the injuries that Ante had

22 sustained?

23 A. They were entry-exit wounds. He was wounded by five bullets, and

24 the wounds stretched from the groins to the shoulders, that area of the

25 body. All in all, he had five entry-exit wounds.

Page 1310

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is he still alive?

2 A. Yes, he is.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: How is he? Is he completely healed and a strong

4 man working and living? Or what's his condition?

5 A. He seems to be doing well. He can move around. He doesn't appear

6 to suffer. However, I believe that psychologically, he is a destroyed

7 person. I believe that it is not easy to endure something of the sort

8 psychologically. Wounds can heal easily but it is difficult to heal the

9 soul.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: I understand. But do you know whether he's

11 employed?

12 A. No, he's not employed.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Do you know why he's not employed?

14 A. I don't know. I can't tell you.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mrs. Denona.

16 Are there any questions arising from the questions from the Bench?

17 MS. VALABHJI: Not from the Prosecution, Your Honours.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Milovancevic?

19 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] No questions, Your Honour.

20 Thank you.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

22 Thank you very much, Mrs. Denona. You have finished giving your

23 evidence. You may stand down. You are now excused from further attending

24 court. You may stand down.

25 [The witness withdrew]

Page 1311

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mrs. Valabhji?

2 MS. VALABHJI: Your Honour, we actually don't have another witness

3 at this time. Since we are not sitting again until next week Wednesday,

4 we didn't think there was time to bring another witness, so ...

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Aren't we supposed to be sitting tomorrow as well?

6 MS. VALABHJI: That's correct, Your Honour.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Here you're talking until next Wednesday.

8 MS. VALABHJI: Indeed. It was today and tomorrow and resuming

9 next Wednesday. I apologise. However, we didn't schedule another witness

10 immediately following this one, in light of the short period in between

11 now and next Wednesday.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Thank you very much. In that event, then --

13 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour?


15 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] I apologise. My learned friend

16 from the OTP mentioned Wednesday. Is that the 15th or the 16th? Because

17 I want to clarify this. I'm not sure whether I made a correct note of it.

18 I believe that we were sitting on the 16th and the 17th. I don't know if

19 the 16th is Wednesday or Thursday. Is there some sort of error here?

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Wednesday is the 15th and Thursday is the 16th.

21 According to my diary, we are supposed to sit at quarter past 2 on the

22 15th, Wednesday, in this courtroom, and then 16th and 17th we are supposed

23 to sit at quarter past 2 in Courtroom I for both days. That's what I have

24 on my diary.

25 MS. VALABHJI: I also have the 15th, 16th, and the 17th.

Page 1312

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Does that clear --

2 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I was

3 a bit confused with the dates. Thank you for the explanation.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

5 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we move into private

6 session for a moment, please?

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Thank you very much.

8 May we please move into private session?

9 [Private session]

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 1313











11 Pages 1313-1317 redacted. Private session.















Page 1318

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 [Open session]

8 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

10 Well, I hear what you say. That is the prima facie view of the

11 Bench on those issues. I'm not quite sure what response there will be

12 from the Defence but looking at those motions, that was the prima facie

13 view of the Bench, that medical certificates were necessary.

14 MR. BLACK: Were necessary or were not necessary? I'm sorry,

15 Your Honour.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Were necessary. Or still are necessary. Let's put

17 it correctly.

18 MR. BLACK: Very well, Your Honour, I will certainly, of course,

19 discuss it with Mr. Whiting but we will undertake whatever steps we can.

20 Just to inform you the way those conclusions are reached is that we, of

21 course, our investigators contact all the witnesses that we are expecting

22 to bring to find out their status and their condition. So it's through

23 those contacts between our investigators and the witnesses themselves that

24 we obtain this information. It may be then necessary for them to go for

25 further checkups and I only say this so you know it may take a little bit

Page 1319

1 of time, more than a couple of days to get the certificates. But we'll do

2 that, Your Honour.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: The next point, again for the Prosecution, there is

4 a motion to amend the witness list, motion is dated the 1st of February,

5 and in that motion, it is being requested that one Witness, MM-08, is

6 withdrawn as a live witness. Now, this witness's evidence has already

7 been admitted in terms of 92 bis. The question that arises is: Is this

8 request to withdraw the witness as a live witness, does it mean that that

9 statement of that witness should also be withdrawn or does it still stand?

10 MR. BLACK: Your Honour, I believe it was admitted subject to

11 cross-examination. In those circumstances, we withdraw his evidence

12 entirely.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Entirely?

14 MR. BLACK: Yes.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Thank you very much. That was all I had

16 about -- in terms of housekeeping.

17 Okay. We said we are adjourning to the 15th, Wednesday, the 15th;

18 is that right?

19 MR. BLACK: Yes, Your Honour, as far as we are aware, that's

20 right.

21 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Quite clear, Your Honour, thank

22 you very much.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: It's at quarter past two, in Courtroom II.

24 Court adjourned.

25 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.03 p.m.,

Page 1320

1 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 15th day of

2 February, 2006, at 2.15 p.m.