Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

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 1                          Tuesday, 20 September 2005

 2                          [Initial Appearance]

 3                          [Open session]

 4                          [The accused entered court]

 5                          --- Upon commencing at 3.00 p.m.

 6            JUDGE BONOMY:  Would the registrar call the case, please.

 7            THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  This is the case

 8    number IT-98-32/1, the Prosecutor versus Sredoje Lukic.

 9            JUDGE BONOMY:  Who appears for the Prosecutor?

10            MR. HARMON:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  My name is Mark Harmon.

11    Appearing with me, Mr. Frederic Ossogo, to my right.  To my left, the case

12    manager, Lise-Lotte Karlsson.  Thank you.

13            JUDGE BONOMY:  Mr. Harmon.

14            For the Defence?

15            MS. LOUKAS:  Yes, good afternoon, Your Honour.  Chrissa Loukas.  I

16    appear for the accused as duty counsel assigned today.

17            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you, Ms. Loukas.

18            Now, Mr. Lukic, could you stand, please.

19                          [The accused stands]

20            JUDGE BONOMY:  Are you able at the moment to follow the

21    proceedings in your own language?

22            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I am.

23            JUDGE BONOMY:  You're hearing a clear translation?

24            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I can hear, yes.

25            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you.  Can you then confirm to me your full

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 1    name.

 2            THE INTERPRETER:  Could the speaker speak into the microphone,

 3    please.  Thank you.

 4            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Sredoje Lukic.

 5            JUDGE BONOMY:  Your date of birth?

 6            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The 5th of April, 1961.

 7            JUDGE BONOMY:  Place of birth?

 8            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The village of Rujiste, Visegrad

 9    municipality.

10            JUDGE BONOMY:  And the address at which you were resident

11    immediately before you were transferred to The Hague.

12            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Seganje BB, no number, Visegrad.

13            JUDGE BONOMY:  Are you currently employed?

14            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No.

15            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you.  You may sit.

16                          [The accused sits down]

17            JUDGE BONOMY:  Now, Ms. Loukas, this is a rather ancient

18    indictment which comes before the Court today.  Has your client had an

19    opportunity to read the indictment in a language which he clearly

20    understands?

21            MS. LOUKAS:  Yes, Your Honour.  I've discussed this matter with

22    Mr. Lukic, and I can indicate that he waives the reading of the

23    indictment.

24            JUDGE BONOMY:  Now there are a total, I think, of 12 charges or 12

25    counts which involve him.  In these circumstances, I assume it is

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 1    sufficient if the Court Deputy simply summarises each individual count and

 2    takes a plea on each individual count from him.

 3            MS. LOUKAS:  Yes.  I can indicate, Your Honour, I foreshadowed to

 4    Mr. Lukic that that might be the procedure that's adopted and, Your

 5    Honour, there is no objection to that course.

 6            JUDGE BONOMY:  For example, Count 1 would simply be stated as

 7    Count 1, extermination, a crime against humanity, and he would then be

 8    asked does he plead guilty or not guilty.

 9            MS. LOUKAS:  That's correct, Your Honour, yes.  And he's aware of

10    the procedure and is happy to proceed with that procedure.

11            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you very much.

12            Mr. Lukic, would you stand again, please.

13                          [The accused stands]

14            JUDGE BONOMY:  The Court Deputy is now going to read to you each

15    one of the 10 charges against you, but simply referring to the short

16    description of the charge that I've just given an example of.  And each

17    time when she has read the summary of the count or charge, she will ask

18    you whether you plead guilty or not guilty and you should say to her

19    either "guilty" or "not guilty."  Do you understand that?  I'm sorry, I

20    can't hear.

21            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I understand.

22            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you.

23            Court Deputy, could you follow that procedure, please.  Thank you.

24            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 1, extermination, a crime against humanity.

25    Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

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 1            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

 2            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 2, persecutions on political, racial, and

 3    religious grounds, a crime against humanity.  Do you plead guilty or not

 4    guilty?

 5            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

 6            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 10, murder, a crime against humanity.  Do

 7    you plead guilty or not guilty?

 8            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

 9            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 11, murder, a violation of the laws or

10    customs of war.  Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

11            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

12            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 12, inhumane acts, a crime against humanity.

13    Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

14            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

15            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 13, violence to life and person, a violation

16    of the laws or customs of war.  Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

17            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

18            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 14, murder, a crime against humanity.  Do

19    you plead guilty or not guilty?

20            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

21            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 15, murder, a violation of the laws or

22    customs of war.  Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

23            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

24            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 16, inhumane acts, a crime against humanity.

25    Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

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 1            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

 2            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 17, violation to life and person, a

 3    violation of the laws or customs of war.  Do you plead guilty or not

 4    guilty?

 5            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

 6            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 18, inhumane acts, a crime against humanity.

 7    Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

 8            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

 9            THE REGISTRAR:  Count 19, cruel treatment, a violation of the laws

10    or customs of war.  Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

11            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

12            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you, Mr. Lukic.  In light of the pleas which

13    have been tendered, the registry is ordered by me to note that a trial

14    diet should be fixed in due course to deal with the case subject to any

15    other proceedings which take place between now and then.  You may now sit.

16                          [The accused sits down]

17            JUDGE BONOMY:  Now, Mr. Harmon, we have from you a motion to

18    suspend all non-essential proceedings, a title which I found amusing in

19    itself.  I take it all proceedings that ever take place here are

20    essential.

21            MR. HARMON:  I agree, Your Honour.

22            JUDGE BONOMY:  Now, it's not entirely clear to me what you mean by

23    this, because there are certain things that have to take place.

24            MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, what we mean by this is that there is

25    already on file in this case a motion to have this case referred to

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 1    Bosnia.  We are prepared to proceed in those proceedings.  The request is

 2    to suspend litigation relating to a trial in this case.  I say that,

 3    however, with the understanding that when permanent counsel is assigned

 4    within 30 days we will comply with our discovery obligations.  But we wish

 5    to avoid extensive litigation prior to the filing up the proceedings that

 6    will occur under Rule 11 bis.

 7            JUDGE BONOMY:  The -- you rightly note that disclosure has to take

 8    place, I think.  But disclosure itself will then have the trigger effect

 9    of starting the period for preliminary motions, at least two of which, or

10    two categories of which, it seems to me, you could hardly suspend.  I'm

11    just concerned that a motion formulated in such broad and fairly vague

12    terms at this stage is likely to lead to some misunderstanding, especially

13    since nothing other than disclosure plus preliminary motions is likely to

14    happen in the immediately foreseeable future.  So my inclination is simply

15    to note that the motion is there and not to make a determination of it

16    just at this moment.

17            MR. HARMON:  That's satisfactory, Your Honour.

18            JUDGE BONOMY:  All right.  But -- now, that's subject, obviously,

19    to any comment you have to make on that motion, Ms. Loukas.

20            MS. LOUKAS:  Yes, Your Honour.  I, of course, echo with Your

21    Honour's sentiments in relation to the question of vagueness.

22            The other point I'd like to make is this, as duty counsel, and

23    that is the accused, Mr. Lukic, has sought the assignment of permanent

24    counsel, and as I understand it that permanent counsel is - and I should

25    note this for the record, for Your Honour as well - a Mr. Bezbradica who,

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 1    as I understand it, is on the Rule 45 list of counsel and should hopefully

 2    be assigned in the not-too-distant future.  And any questions in relation

 3    to motion or motions of this nature of course should await the assignment

 4    of permanent counsel.  As duty counsel, of course, I certainly won't be

 5    accepting disclosure of the relevant material.

 6            JUDGE BONOMY:  All right.  Thank you.

 7            Well, Mr. Lukic, could you stand again, please.

 8                          [The accused stands]

 9            JUDGE BONOMY:  It is very important - I cannot stress how

10    important - that every effort is made to have your permanent counsel

11    assigned at the earliest possible date.  Because if there's any hold up or

12    confusion in that arrangement, then in light of what's just been said you

13    will end up with the papers in the case being delivered to you, and that

14    is not a desirable situation to be in.  If you intend to conduct the case

15    through counsel, then it is vital that he gets the papers -- or he or she

16    gets the papers delivered from the Prosecution as soon as possible.  Now,

17    have you already had discussions with Mr. Bezbradica?

18            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, I have not talked to him yet.

19            JUDGE BONOMY:  So what is the plan you have in mind?

20            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I intend to have him come here to

21    visit me.  I have given him the telephone number, or rather, I gave him

22    the telephone number once I arrived in the Detention Unit.  I think the

23    registry was provided with the telephone number.

24            JUDGE BONOMY:  Well, it is important that you yourself take action

25    to make sure that the person you want does make arrangements to contact

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 1    you, because you must find out quickly in case he's unable to take the

 2    case or finds difficulty with it, because you then will have to make

 3    alternative arrangements.  And there is always the possibility that the 30

 4    days that the Prosecution have for delivering the material to you will run

 5    out before you've made that arrangement.  It is a very urgent matter.

 6    Now, do you understand that?

 7            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, within a 30-day deadline

 8    Bezbradica should come here.  Is that how I am to understand it?

 9            JUDGE BONOMY:  No.  The maximum period that should elapse before

10    all the material which the Prosecution have to disclose to you to backup

11    their indictment, the maximum period they have is 30 days.  So you must

12    have your counsel in place before 30 days expires.  You need to make

13    immediate contact with a person who is able to represent you.  Now, do you

14    understand that?

15            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I understand that.

16            JUDGE BONOMY:  And the reason it's important is that when the

17    material is handed over, the period then starts running for you to make

18    what are called preliminary motions.  That's certain motions which are

19    defined in the Rules, and you only have 30 days in which to make these

20    motions.  Yes, 30 days from the date on which the material is disclosed to

21    you.  So, for example, if you were wanting to say that you shouldn't be

22    here because the Tribunal has no jurisdiction, or if you were claiming

23    that there's something in the indictment that's wrong that you are

24    challenging, then you only have a short period of 30 days from getting the

25    Prosecution material to make these legal challenges.  So you need to have

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 1    your legal advice in place, the person who is going to represent you, in

 2    place as soon as possible.  You understand?

 3            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I do understand.

 4            JUDGE BONOMY:  Now, is there any matter which you wish to raise

 5    directly with me?

 6            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] For the moment, nothing.

 7            JUDGE BONOMY:  Sit down then.

 8                          [The accused sits down]

 9            JUDGE BONOMY:  Ms. Loukas, are you aware of anything else that

10    ought to be raised at this stage?

11            MS. LOUKAS:  No, Your Honour.  I've consulted with Mr. Lukic in

12    relation to the various matters that one does consult with the accused on

13    occasions of this nature, and there is nothing that I need to bring before

14    the Court at this stage.  I, of course, as Your Honour has done,

15    emphasised to him the importance of ensuring that permanent counsel is

16    assigned in view of the limited time period available under the Rules.

17    And as I understand it -- and I, of course, will assist in the process of

18    ensuring that contact is made with permanent counsel and also under the

19    auspices of the Registry.

20            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you.

21            Mr. Harmon, anything else that requires to be dealt with at this

22    stage?

23            MR. HARMON:  No, nothing, Your Honour.  Thank you.

24            JUDGE BONOMY:  Thank you very much.

25                          [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]

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 1            JUDGE BONOMY:  Very well.  That completes the Initial Appearance

 2    and the court is now adjourned.

 3                          --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance

 4                          adjourned at 3.20 p.m.