Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 11813

1 Friday, 16 March 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.

5 JUDGE BONOMY: Can we go into private session for the witness to

6 enter the courtroom -- or closed session, rather.

7 [Closed session]

8 (redacted)

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Page 11814

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9 (redacted)

10 [Open session]

11 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Neema.


14 Q. Good morning, Witness.

15 MS. NEEMA: Could the witness please be given Exhibit P2757.

16 Q. Witness, could you please read that document which has been placed

17 in front of you, quietly, and tell the Court if the information which is

18 in there is correct.

19 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreters cannot hear the witness.

20 JUDGE BONOMY: There is a problem with communication here. Can we

21 have the microphone -- well, the witness was not heard by the interpreter.

22 Could you answer again, please.

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The information is correct.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

25 MS. NEEMA: Your Honours, I would like to tender this

Page 11815

1 identification sheet as exhibit under seal.

2 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.


4 Q. Witness K87, do you remember making a statement or providing a

5 statement to the Office of the Prosecution on the 25th and 26th of

6 October, 2004?

7 A. I remember.

8 MS. NEEMA: Could the witness be handed a copy of his statement,

9 please, which is P2756.

10 Q. Witness, can you have a look at the statement which has been

11 placed in front of you. Is that the statement you made to the OTP?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Yesterday during the proofing and after you had gone through your

14 statement, did you have any changes or correction you wished to make to --

15 in respect of the statement which you made to the OTP in 2004?

16 A. There were some minor changes.

17 MS. NEEMA: Your Honours, I would like to take the witness through

18 the couple of changes he made yesterday.

19 Q. The first change is in relation to paragraph 14, the second

20 sentence: "They were in fact instructed regarding locations. They had no

21 input in relation to selection of burial sites."

22 Is that the change you wanted to make in relation to that

23 paragraph, the second sentence?

24 MS. NEEMA: The witness cannot hear.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Witness K87, did you hear the question?

Page 11816

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I didn't hear the question.

2 There were interruptions.

3 JUDGE BONOMY: Can you ask that question, again, please,

4 Ms. Neema. And if it is the second sentence I have in front of me, the

5 second sentence wasn't very clear.

6 MS. NEEMA: Okay. In his statement it reads that they were asked

7 to pick the locations, but what he was saying yesterday was that they were

8 in fact instructed, so he wants the change to be made.

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes, I understand that, but we want to hear it from

10 the witness.

11 MS. NEEMA: Yes. Now I'm putting that to him.

12 Q. In paragraph 14 the second sentence this is what you wished -- or

13 the changes you wish to be made: "They were in fact instructed regarding

14 locations. They had no input in relation to selection of burial sites."

15 Is that the change you wanted to make?

16 A. Yes, that's the change.

17 Q. The second change --

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, before you move on, my understanding of this

19 part of the -- of your statement is that you were in the office of

20 Mr. Djordjevic when this happened. Is that correct?

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, in the office of

22 Mr. Djordjevic.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: And it was only you and he who were there?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was the only one.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: So was he telling you where the location was to

Page 11817

1 be?

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, he told me.

3 JUDGE BONOMY: And can you remember what he told you?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I can remember.

5 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, what did he tell you about the location?

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He said -- well, he said the

7 location where the bodies were to be buried.

8 JUDGE BONOMY: And where was that? Where was that location?

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It was the place behind the firing

10 range at the 13th of May centre in Batajnica.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.


13 Q. Witness, the second change you wanted to make was in relation to

14 paragraph 9, and you wanted for that sentence to read as follows: "The

15 police centre in Batajnica was not bombed as a result of NATO air-strikes;

16 however, the surrounding VJ buildings were apparently targeted and

17 destroyed."

18 A. Yes, that is the change that I wished to have made.

19 Q. The third change is in paragraph 16 which you wanted to read as

20 follows. This should read that: "It was not his duty as opposed to

21 responsibility." Is that correct?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. The last change was in relation to paragraph 21, the last

24 sentence, and you wanted that sentence to read that: "He was receiving on

25 his mobile phone from an unknown person who would introduce themselves by

Page 11818

1 saying that they were calling from the cabinet of General Djordjevic."

2 Is that correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And the fifth one is not really the change but he just stated or

5 informed us of that, that --

6 MR. LUKIC: Your Honour --

7 JUDGE BONOMY: I'm finding this very confusing, I'm sorry.

8 Mr. Lukic.

9 MR. LUKIC: Regarding the -- I'll sit down and if you can say

10 what's confusing for you first.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, paragraph 16 I couldn't follow that. I don't

12 know which sentence it is that you want to change.

13 MS. NEEMA: It's the third sentence from the bottom of paragraph

14 16.

15 JUDGE BONOMY: The third-last sentence?

16 MS. NEEMA: Yes.

17 JUDGE BONOMY: "I did not see this" --

18 MS. NEEMA: "I did not see this" --

19 JUDGE BONOMY: So it should be -- who is he referring to it was

20 not his duty? Who does that refer to?

21 MS. NEEMA: Your Honour, would you like me to respond?


23 MS. NEEMA: He --

24 JUDGE BONOMY: You read it out: "It was not his duty as opposed

25 to responsibility," who is "he" in that context?

Page 11819

1 MS. NEEMA: He was referring to himself.

2 JUDGE BONOMY: So it should be "my" -- now I'm beginning to follow

3 it.

4 MS. NEEMA: Yes, that's correct.

5 JUDGE BONOMY: That whole sentence comes out. Do you leave out

6 the part: "I was just carrying out the orders I received"?

7 MS. NEEMA: Yes.

8 JUDGE BONOMY: Paragraph 21, the last sentence. The last

9 sentence.

10 MS. NEEMA: Yes.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: So is it deleted? And is he again referring to

12 himself or someone else?

13 MS. NEEMA: No, he's referring to himself that --

14 JUDGE BONOMY: So it's "I was receiving"?

15 MS. NEEMA: Yes.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: And is that in place of the whole sentence?

17 MS. NEEMA: Yes.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: All right. Thank you.

19 Mr. Lukic, anything else?

20 MR. LUKIC: Actually, I stood up in the anticipation of the

21 question, so we didn't hear the question. I will wait.

22 JUDGE BONOMY: Very well.

23 Carry on, please, Ms. Neema.


25 Q. Apart from these four corrections or changes you wanted to make to

Page 11820

1 your statement, do you have any other corrections or changes you would

2 like to make to your statement now?

3 A. I don't.

4 Q. Thank you. Witness K87, after the changes we have made or you

5 have made, are you now satisfied that this statement accurately reflects

6 to the best of your knowledge and recollection the truth about the events

7 that are described in your statement which you made to the OTP?

8 A. Yes.

9 MS. NEEMA: Your Honours, we would like to tender the witness

10 statement. Currently what we have on e-court is Exhibit P2756 and we

11 would wish that one to be admitted under seal and we are preparing --

12 okay. I've just been informed that the redacted version has already been

13 uploaded and it's P2847.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you very much.

15 MS. NEEMA: Your Honour, I have no further questions.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Zecevic, only one person with questions?

17 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, Your Honour, that is my understanding that --

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Will you allow me to guess who?

19 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, please.

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, please.

21 MR. LUKIC: No questions for this witness, Your Honour.

22 MR. ZECEVIC: I stand corrected, Your Honour.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: We shall go into closed session.

24 [Trial Chamber confers]

25 [Closed session]

Page 11821

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10 [Open session]

11 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Hannis, are the surprises going to continue?

13 MR. HANNIS: Your Honour, I have no surprises for you I think. We

14 have no other witnesses for today. We expect Colonel Mike Phillips to be

15 here to testify on Monday. We have Mr. Coo next week. And, Your Honour,

16 I would like to take the occasion to address one of the few Latin phrases

17 that I know, which is dum spiro spero, while I breathe I hope. We are

18 still trying to contact Mr. Burns to see if there is any way we might be

19 able to have him. Frankly, I doubt that we are going to be able to but

20 I'm still trying and I will advise the Court and counsel immediately if I

21 learn anything positive in that regard.

22 JUDGE CHOWHAN: And I would like to respond to you in Latin ne

23 ardu durand [phoen], that will be your struggle. Thank you.

24 MR. HANNIS: Thank you, Your Honour. I will read up on that.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: We're obviously going to have to install a fifth

Page 11822

1 booth for the interpreters.

2 The Court can be available next week on Monday, Tuesday, and

3 Thursday for longer sittings.

4 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

5 JUDGE BONOMY: Yeah, I think you should come prepared next week

6 for the possibility that Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday we will sit until

7 3.30, if that's a possibility and is necessary.

8 I think it's probably wise to take advantage of that at the

9 beginning of the week.

10 So we will adjourn now until 9.00 on Monday morning.

11 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.27 a.m.,

12 to be reconvened on Monday, the 19th day of

13 March, 2007, at 9.00 a.m.