Page 22770
1 Monday, 16 June 2014
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused not present]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.33 a.m.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone in and around this
6 courtroom.
7 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours.
9 This is case IT-09-92-T, the Prosecutor versus Ratko Mladic.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
11 First, I put on the record -- I put on the record that Mr. Mladic
12 is not present in court. The Chamber was informed that he has reported
13 ill.
14 Mr. Lukic, is there anything you could tell us about the present
15 situation.
16 MR. LUKIC: Good morning, Your Honours.
17 I don't have much information, but I'll tell you what I know.
18 I'll just learned, after 9.00 this morning, that Mr. Mladic had
19 health problems, that he spent the whole day yesterday in Bronovo where
20 he was transported after diagnosed being ill. Today he is in the
21 UN Detention hospital and it should be decided today whether he would be
22 brought back to Bronovo or not, because the doctors have to do their
23 checkups today.
24 I -- it's not heart and it's nothing wrong with the brains. It
25 was reported just that -- it's a stomach -- stomach flu, so... he -- he
Page 22771
1 told me that he feels a bit better than yesterday, and I was able to talk
2 to him thanks to guards who provided Mr. Mladic with a phone, although
3 it's not possible, usually, from that unit.
4 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Mr. Lukic, I do see that there's no waiver
6 from Mr. Mladic, which means that we would not proceed. At the same
7 time, the Prosecution has asked for ten more minutes to make submissions
8 on -- on a matter which we started discussing last Friday.
9 Now, of course, that's part of the proceeds as well. So if
10 there's no waiver in itself, unless you specifically tell us that we
11 could proceed with that, and with that only, we would even leave that,
12 and perhaps then we would invite the Prosecution to submit in writing
13 what they may have prepared to present orally. But -- because
14 submissions in writing, of course, can still be continued.
15 MR. LUKIC: We would accept your latest proposal, to have that in
16 writing then.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. And then the Chamber would like to receive any
18 response -- if -- if at all, because you apply -- you made an
19 application, Prosecution has responded. We have heard questions. If you
20 want to make any further submissions, we would expect that to be there as
21 well today.
22 MR. LUKIC: Today as well.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Groome or Mr. Shin.
24 MR. SHIN: Your Honours, perhaps it would be easier for all if we
25 just made our oral submissions tomorrow if they're not going to be heard
Page 22772
1 today. It will be less than ten minutes in any event.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. It depends on, of course, the Chamber will
3 most likely have to decide on the matter and the earlier we know what the
4 submissions are, the better we will be able to decide.
5 Now, I've got no idea whether a waiver would be there for
6 tomorrow. Neither would I know whether Mr. Mladic would be back by
7 tomorrow; so, therefore, I suggest that -- but one second, please.
8 [Trial Chamber confers]
9 [Prosecution counsel confer]
10 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lukic, the Chamber received information, very
11 informal and not binding in any way, that you thought that hearing those
12 submissions on this matter could take place -- could -- could be done
13 today orally. Therefore, we are slightly surprised. But, again, it's no
14 blame whatsoever. I mean, you have the right to express your position in
15 court as you wish. But we wondered whether the very impractical way of
16 written exchange of submissions where, of course, the substance of the
17 matter would be the same; that is, that the Chamber is informed about the
18 positions of the parties.
19 MR. LUKIC: Give me one second.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
21 [Defence counsel confer]
22 MR. LUKIC: We --
23 [Trial Chamber confers]
24 MR. LUKIC: We also think that we might agree only on this issue,
25 to sit without General Mladic since it's more procedural
Page 22773
1 than substantial --
2 JUDGE ORIE: I'm the guilty one. I should have left my -- I
3 switch it off immediately. I'll switch it off immediately, if I still
4 know how to do it.
5 MR. LUKIC: Usually it's me.
6 JUDGE ORIE: I can't say that I staged it for this purpose,
7 Mr. Lukic, to make you feel more at ease because that would not be true.
8 MR. LUKIC: So, yes, we could hear the submissions from the
9 Prosecution, and then we can respond during the day so you have
10 everything today.
11 And I just want to inform you that I asked to visit Mr. Mladic in
12 the UNDU but I was also told that I cannot do that because before the
13 doctors see him first, so that's why I don't have more information
14 otherwise I would be rushing to the UNDU already.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I do not know what the rationale behind this
16 rule is, but perhaps better first ask about it than to say anything about
17 it.
18 Under those circumstances we turn into private session to hear
19 further submissions from Mr. Shin.
20 [Private session]
21 (redacted)
22 (redacted)
23 (redacted)
24 (redacted)
25 (redacted)
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13 [Open session]
14 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honours.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
16 We will not proceed any further today.
17 The Chamber would like to be informed as soon as possible about
18 the expectations as far as the recovery of Mr. Mladic is concerned. The
19 Chamber is pleased to hear that it's not a very serious illness, but at
20 least not related to heart or brains, but to something that most people
21 experience now and then.
22 The last concern, of course, the Chamber has is the witness who
23 is waiting to start his -- giving his testimony. Therefore,
24 Madam Registrar, would you please take care that all relevant information
25 will be shared with the Victims and Witness Section so that the Victims
Page 22776
1 and Witness Section is in a position to keep the witness updated about
2 what he can expect.
3 Any other matter? Not.
4 Then we will adjourn, sine die.
5 We stand adjourned.
6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.46 a.m.,
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