1 Thursday, 14 May 2015
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.30 a.m.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone in and around this
7 Mr. Registrar, would you please call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is the case
9 number IT-09-92-T, the Prosecutor versus Ratko Mladic.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
11 No preliminaries were announced. Therefore, I take it that the
12 Defence is ready to call its next witness.
13 MR. LUKIC: Good morning, Your Honours. Yes, we are. We are
14 calling Mr. Goran Dragojevic.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Could the witness be escorted into the courtroom.
16 [The witness entered court]
17 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning, Mr. Dragojevic.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
19 JUDGE ORIE: If you are more comfortable in sitting, it's only
20 that I would invite you to make a solemn declaration. If you would
21 prefer to be seated right away, then please do so.
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, it's all right. I'll be
24 JUDGE ORIE: The Rules require that you make a solemn declaration
25 of which the text is now handed out to you. May I invite you to make
1 that solemn declaration.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
3 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
4 WITNESS: GORAN DRAGOJEVIC
5 [Witness answered through interpreter]
6 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Dragojevic. Please be seated.
7 Mr. Dragojevic, you'll first be examined by Mr. Lukic. You find
8 Mr. Lukic to your left. Mr. Lukic is counsel for Mr. Mladic.
9 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honours.
10 I would just ask help from the usher and deliver the hard copy of
11 the statement to the witness.
12 Examination by Mr. Lukic:
13 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Dragojevic.
14 A. Good morning.
15 Q. For the record, would you please state your name and surname
17 A. My last name is Dragojevic, my name is Goran, my father's name is
18 Ljubo. I was born on the 18th of April, 1957 in Prijedor.
19 Q. Thank you. Mr. Dragojevic, did you give a statement to the
20 Defence team of General Mladic?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have 1D1681 on our
24 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, you have a hard copy but you also have a document
25 on the screen. Can you recognise the signature on the first page?
1 A. Yes, that is my very own signature.
2 Q. Thank you.
3 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please take a look at
4 the last page of this document.
5 Q. You see two signatures here on the last page. Can you recognise
7 A. Yes, these are my signatures.
8 Q. Did you have an opportunity to review this statement,
9 Mr. Dragojevic?
10 A. I did have an opportunity to review this statement.
11 Q. What is recorded in this statement, is it recorded properly in
12 relation to what you said to the Defence team of General Mladic?
13 A. Everything I said is written down there, and I stand by this
15 Q. What is written down as your statement, is that correct and
17 A. Yes, what is written down is correct.
18 Q. And truthful?
19 A. And truthful. But of course.
20 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, if I were to put the same questions to you today,
21 would you give me the same answers?
22 A. Not only today. I would always give the same answers to those
23 very same questions.
24 Q. Thank you.
25 MR. LUKIC: We would tender this statement into evidence, Your
2 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.
3 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit D1049, Your Honours.
4 JUDGE ORIE: No objections. Therefore, admitted.
5 MR. LUKIC: Your Honours, I would read statement summary of the
6 witness, and I will have some questions for this witness as well, with
7 your leave.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Please do.
9 MR. LUKIC: Thank you.
10 As a reserve soldier and ambulance driver, Mr. Goran Dragojevic
11 was mobilised in September 1991 and assigned to the ambulance company of
12 the 343rd Motorised Brigade.
13 He returned to Prijedor in March 1992, as his services were
14 required by the hospital. He worked there as the ambulance driver until
15 30th of May, 1992, when he was seriously wounded on duty.
16 Mr. Dragojevic testifies that the multiparty elections were
17 followed by interethnic tensions in Prijedor. These were acutely felt
18 when the war started in the Republic of Croatia and then Muslim and Croat
19 soldiers refused to respond to the mobilisation call. Some of these
20 soldiers left from the Republic of Croatia to volunteer in Croatian
21 National Guard Corps, ZNG, paramilitary units.
22 As an ambulance driver, Mr. Dragojevic was on duty at the
23 hospital 24 hours a day. On the 30th of May, 1992, at approximately 4.45
24 hours a.m., he received a call to aid some individuals who were injured
25 in front of the Prijedor Hotel. When he received the assignment, he did
1 not know who those individuals were, their nationality, or the nature of
2 their injuries.
3 Mr. Dragojevic departed the hospital in his vehicle, a Lada,
4 visibly and appropriately marked as an ambulance, toward the Prijedor
5 Hotel via Kozarska Street. He turned on the emergency lights without
6 using the siren signals. At that time, he was wearing a white coat with
7 a Red Cross sign on the left arm.
8 En route, he noticed a group of armed civilians who suddenly
9 opened fire on his ambulance with automatic weapons. As a consequence of
10 this attack, Mr. Dragojevic suffered 32 penetrating gun-shot wounds.
11 That was statement summary, and I will have a couple of questions
12 for Mr. Dragojevic.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed as you suggest.
14 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
15 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Dragojevic --
16 MR. LUKIC: Sorry, can we have page 2 on our screens from the
18 Q. [Interpretation] In paragraph 2, Mr. Dragojevic, in the last
19 sentence, you say:
20 [As read] "I returned to Prijedor from Western Slavonia in March
21 1992, as my services were required by the hospital, where I worked as an
22 ambulance driver until the 30th of May 1992; that is to say, until I was
24 A. Yes, March 1992. I returned then because drivers were needed by
25 the hospital. Muslim drivers refused to drive patients from the hospital
1 in Prijedor towards Banja Luka and further on. I was a professional
2 driver anyway from 1979, and I started driving an ambulance in 1980. I
3 first started driving an official car and then I immediately moved on to
4 driving an ambulance from 1980.
5 So I returned and I stayed there until the 30th of May, 1992,
6 when I was on duty and when I fell victim.
7 Q. Thank you. When you were driving to Banja Luka after arriving in
8 March 1992, and then in April and May, could you please tell us which
9 roads you took and tell us whether these were regular roads, and when did
10 you start taking roads that were not exactly regular roads?
11 A. In March when I returned, there was this normal road,
12 Prijedor-Kozarac-Banja Luka; however, already in April, mid-April, and at
13 the end of April, it was not safe to drive that way. And then we took
14 the roundabout way to Tomasica, and then we would get out in Omarska, and
15 then go on to Banja Luka.
16 Q. At the time, did the hospital have all these ambulances?
17 A. Not exactly. The car in which I was injured -- now, was it --
18 well, it was in April anyway. I couldn't remember the date. A driver
19 who worked with me in the hospital, he took that car away and took it to
20 Kozarac to some medical unit of theirs up there where they had some kind
21 of base on a hill. I don't know, I never went there. At any rate, this
22 car was there. They had it for about seven to eight days, and I know
23 that there were negotiations under way to have the car returned to the
24 Prijedor hospital, and finally it was returned.
25 Q. Now let us focus on the period just before the conflicts in
1 Kozarac and Kozarac itself.
2 Before the conflicts in Kozarac, did you drive patients from
3 Prijedor to Kozarac and from Kozarac to Prijedor?
4 A. Since I was on duty in the hospital just before the 24th, I could
5 not say exactly - was it the 19th, was it the 20th? - I cannot recall the
6 exact date because it's been a very long time. From the hospital in the
7 afternoon hours, I drove a lady who was pregnant, who was an ethnic
8 Muslim, from the hospital to there. For safety reasons, I was advised
9 not to go on my own, and then a medical technician went with me,
10 Irfan Kuteric, let me mention his name, he worked in the department for
11 internal medicine, and another technician who was also from Kozarac and
12 who worked in Prijedor; however, he was a local of Kozarac.
13 We brought that woman to Kozarac. At the very entrance into
14 Kozarac by the sawmill, we were stopped by the Territorial Defence, as
15 they called themselves, and they checked us. They knew Kapetanovic, that
16 technician, and they let us go, and he said that we were giving this
17 pregnant lady a ride, and I brought her to her house, which was above the
18 mosque, and she got out there. And allegedly, the woman was in hospital
19 because her delivery date -- her due date was not there yet but she had
20 had bleeding and that's why she was in hospital, but then it stopped and
21 then she was released.
22 There were barricades there, but nobody made any problem for me
23 then, as I drove by in the ambulance.
24 Q. Thank you, thank you. Irfan Kuteric and Kapetanovic was the
25 other one that you mentioned, you mentioned these two technicians?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What was their ethnicity?
3 A. They were Muslims, Muslims.
4 Q. Fighting started in Kozarac. What preceded the fighting in
6 A. As far as I heard, the army, the authorities, asked these
7 civilians, the Territorial Defence, to hand over the weapons that they
8 had, and those barricades were supposed to be dismantled. However, just
9 before the 24th, people were saying, and this was a public thing, that
10 they were making some kind of hedgehogs out of steel and used logs as an
11 obstacle for the army that was supposed to come from Banja Luka to
13 Q. What about civilians from Kozarac?
14 A. Now, was it the 24th? I think it's the 24th, but I cannot tell
15 you the exact date. On that day, I was there when civilians were leaving
16 Kozarac. It wasn't that just a few people left. It was lots of people.
17 Several thousand people who left. They were going from Kozarac towards
18 Susici, the bus station there. My colleague, who drove an ambulance in
19 the Kozarac medical centre, he was walking in front of them with a white
21 Q. Thank you. What were you doing on that day?
22 A. On that day, I received orders from my superiors in the hospital.
23 I was told that, together who another colleague, Bogdanovic, I was
24 supposed to go as far as possible with two ambulances to Susici for as
25 far as we would be allowed to go and to give a ride to those people who
1 are not capable of sitting on a bus and to bring them to the hospital or
2 to take them to their friends and relatives in town. I drove by myself.
3 I was sitting in the ambulance vehicle, and I went four or five times
4 between Prijedor and Susici. So there were these four or five tours, if
5 I can call them that. And every time I would give three or four people a
6 ride. It depended if there were somebody on a stretcher, then I'd have
7 one person sitting next to me and another person sitting next to the
8 patient. There was a seat where one could sit next to the stretcher. My
9 colleague, he did more or less the same thing. He drove from Susici to
10 Prijedor just about as many times. So we took them where they wanted to
11 go. If they wanted to go to the hospital, then they were taken to the
12 hospital. There were quite a few people who were sick who had high blood
13 pressure, blood sugar, et cetera. I brought them to the internal
14 medicine department at the hospital where doctors would give them first
15 aid, and then I would go back and I don't know where they went
17 I drove Mr. Refko Kapetanovic during one of these tours, and he
18 worked with my wife at the accounting department at the hospital. He was
19 born in Kozarac, and he was their supervisor there in the accounting
20 department. So I gave him a ride, his lady wife, his mother. I drove
21 them to Pecani to the wife's brother, Fadil, who also worked in our
22 hospital as a warehouse keeper. And that's where they stayed. Now,
23 where they ended up, if necessary I will say that as well.
24 In 1998/1999 he personally, Refko Kapetanovic, got in touch with
25 me and thanked me for having helped him and all of that.
1 Q. Thank you. Besides your two ambulances, were there any other
2 vehicles that transported civilians from Susici to Prijedor; i.e.,
3 civilians from Kozarac?
4 A. There were a lot of vehicles there. There were buses. I
5 wouldn't be able to tell you how many, 10 or 20. I didn't count them. I
6 didn't need to count them. But a lot of civilians left at that time. It
7 looked like a huge group of people leaving a football pitch, and they
8 were moving along the road. There was no traffic at all. We arrived
9 where we were. The area was safe there. And at a distance, you could
10 hear sporadic shots. Those people were then put on buses and were driven
12 Somebody said that there was no need for them to be taken to the
13 hospital. The buses drove off to the sports hall Mladost in the centre
14 of Prijedor and also to the Prijedor football pitch. I wasn't in either
15 of the two places, so I don't know what happened next. I was in the
16 hospital minding my own business and doing my own work.
17 Q. What did you hear about these people? Could those people leave
18 the stadium and the sports hall and go and visit their family members if
19 they had them in Prijedor?
20 A. They could go wherever they wanted to go. Just like I took
21 Refko Kapetanovic to his family, they could also get off the buses. And
22 if they had friends, they could spend the night with their friends. If
23 they didn't have anywhere to go, I suppose that they waited to be able to
24 leave for Croatia and for other places. I really can't tell you much
25 about that because I don't know.
1 Q. Very well. And now let's go back in time. Let's go back to the
2 time after the take-over in Prijedor on the 30th of April, 1992. After
3 the take-over, did Muslims and Croats remain working in the hospital
4 together with you?
5 A. Yes. On the 30th of April, there was a take-over and the SDS
6 took over. My colleagues remained working in the hospital. On the day
7 when I was shot, they were still there. And after that, Irfan Kurtovic
8 was there working in the hospital in 1994 when I returned from the
9 military hospital. There were a lot of doctors among them, specialists,
10 surgeons, Dr. Kurtegic [phoen], Dr. Sprajcar [phoen] who was a
11 gynecologist, Dr. Osman Mahmuljin.
12 On that day when I was shot, Dr. Begic was the one who tended to
13 my wounds, together with Dr. Sovilj. Dr. Sovilj is currently the
14 hospital CEO. My colleagues told me that those two doctors tended to my
15 wounds in the emergency room. None of them stopped working at all.
16 Q. Do you remember if Irfan Kurtovic was anywhere near you?
17 A. Yes, he was. On the day when I was shot and when I was brought
18 to the hospital, my colleagues told me that he had been among the first
19 who ran up to me. He helped everybody to take me out of the car. Both
20 my arm and my leg were severed. He was there. Not only him. There were
21 many others. And after I was taken to the military hospital for
22 treatment, he continued treating my family in a very positive and good
23 way. I had young children. My family lived on his way home, and every
24 day on his way from work, he would stop by and he brought them milk and
25 eggs and other bare necessities.
1 Q. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Dragojevic. And now we're going to
2 look at a few documents. The first one is 1D2840.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lukic, is it your intention to go through all of
4 these documents? I noted that they are all mid-1993, whereas the
5 statement of the witness appears not to give any specifics on what
6 happened in 1993.
7 MR. LUKIC: The papers are from the 1993, Your Honours, but
8 events described in the paper are from 1992 and exactly the date when
9 this gentleman was wounded.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Okay.
11 MR. LUKIC: We need -- first I will ask the witness, actually.
12 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Dragojevic, what is this document before
14 A. This is a photo of Kozarski Vjesnik, a newspaper that was
15 published at the time in the town of Prijedor.
16 Q. How did the Defence get hold of this newspaper?
17 A. I don't know how you got hold of it, but I have all the copies of
18 this newspaper because of the group of men who shot at me. I know a lot
19 of them -- among them who was born in the town of Prijedor and grew up
20 with me.
21 Q. No, I just asked you about the document. Do you remember that
22 you gave us --
23 A. Yes, I gave you a copy of the newspaper.
24 MR. LUKIC: We need first column on the left, second paragraph.
25 If that can be enlarged. And bottom part of ... we have to scroll up,
1 sorry. Scroll up. Go left, please. Yes. And we have to scroll down in
2 English version.
3 Q. [Interpretation] It's not very legible, so I'm going to read. We
4 need the last paragraph in English on this page, page 1. It says here:
5 "'Since the citizens of Brdo did not comply with the ultimatum,
6 because a large number was against the hand-over of the perpetrators of
7 the crime in Polje, I went into the woods below my father's house with a
8 group of people,' says Asim Muhic, a Lieutenant who was in the Sixth
9 Krajina Brigade up until 15 May 1992 ..."
10 Do you know that some members of the JNA left and joined the
11 enemy armed force in Prijedor?
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Why did you lead, Mr. Lukic?
13 MR. LUKIC: I just wanted to introduce the document since we --
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: You are not introducing the document. You are
15 talking about Muslims who joined the opposite side.
16 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour. Sorry.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Zec.
18 MR. ZEC: And as His Honour, Judge Moloto, indicated, this topic
19 is not covered in witness's statement. He didn't talk about it. It's
20 all what's happening now is that Mr. Lukic putting the article, reading
21 the facts to the witness, and then trying to get the witness to --
22 JUDGE ORIE: Well, I don't know what the question will be that
23 Mr. Lukic will put to the witness, but perhaps it would be good,
24 Mr. Lukic, if you formulate a clear question and --
25 MR. LUKIC: Regarding the objection, if I may just respond. All
1 those documents are enlisted at the end of the statement.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I see that.
3 MR. LUKIC: And there is no comment, that's true. But it's not
4 surprise for the Prosecution that we might comment on those, and the
5 objection by the Prosecution filed in the motion was that they do not
6 object if I ask the questions in regard of those documents.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. Well, let's then hear what the questions will
8 be because I haven't heard any question yet. And apart from that they
9 are listed and whether the Prosecution opposes or not, Mr. Lukic, if you
10 just put a row of articles at the end, the Chamber has got no idea. We
11 see that it's 1993. You tell us it's relevant for events in 1992. But
12 most interesting is what can the witness tell us.
13 So please put a question to him.
14 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
15 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Dragojevic, did you read the entire text
16 that is before us?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Does this text deal with the events that happened in 1993 or
20 A. This text deals with the events that happened at the beginning of
21 1992 and later on in the course of 1992. But it was published in 1993,
22 as far as I know. However, the events described in this article happened
23 in 1992.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sir --
25 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lukic, let's get to the point where the witness
1 tells us anything of his personal knowledge which relates to this
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: But even before that, where do we see in this
4 article that the events took place in 1992?
5 MR. LUKIC: For example, Your Honour, I read, and I mentioned
6 15th of May, 1992, and it's in the last part --
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Where is the --
8 MR. LUKIC: The last paragraph in the English version on this
9 page, we have 15th of May, 1992.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Well, it says that someone was a lieutenant up till
11 the 15th of May, 1992.
12 MR. LUKIC: Yes.
13 JUDGE ORIE: If you say that's an event, then I'm wondering what
14 your questions will be.
15 MR. LUKIC: But also it's mentioned fightings in the Brdo area.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. Let's -- and then let's ask what the witness
17 can tell us about that.
18 Please put a question to the witness which provides personal
19 knowledge, observations, whatever, that would assist the Chamber,
20 Mr. Lukic.
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, what do you know about fighting on Brdo or around
23 Brdo? When did that happen?
24 A. The events on Brdo around Kurevo and thereabouts, we knew about
25 those before the month of May, 1992. We knew that paramilitary
1 formations were being trained there. Am I allowed to mention any names?
2 Slavko Ecimovic was among them. He was their leader. And he bragged all
3 over the town.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, were you there? Did you see that training?
5 Were you at those locations?
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I wasn't there. I wasn't in
7 Brdo ever. But every day I was in town with those people. There were
8 two or three cafe bars open. I spent a lot of time with them, and I
9 heard from them that they were being trained up there as the
10 Territorial Defence. Obviously that was a pretext, but entirely
11 different things were happening there.
12 JUDGE ORIE: What things were happening there where you were not
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know what was going on.
15 But according to their stories and the stories of others, they were
16 getting ready. They were trained to fight. They learned how to shoot.
17 Subsequently, we heard people bragging that they had often gone up there
18 to see what they were doing, that they had brought food for them, and so
19 on and so forth.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. So you heard people bragging about what
21 happened there, but you have no personal knowledge on what actually
22 happened. But hearsay is evidence is admitted in this Tribunal, so
23 therefore --
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no, I -- no.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lukic.
1 MR. LUKIC: Thank you.
2 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Dragojevic, where is Hambarine? What do you
3 know about Hambarine? What happened there in May 1992? Where is
5 A. On the 22nd of May, a group who called themselves
6 Territorial Defence set up a check-point there. A group of some five or
7 six soldiers on their way back from there, who lived in Ljubija and Zune,
8 and there was Croats and Serbs among them, were stopped at the
9 check-point. Two were killed and four were injured. One of them still
10 lives very close to me. He's my neighbour. He's a Croat. He was shot
11 with over 18 bullets.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, were you there in Hambarine or is this what
13 you heard about it?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When that happened, when that
15 happened I wasn't in Hambarine. Hambarine is some 8 kilometres or
16 9 kilometres away from Prijedor; that is, on the road to Ljubija.
17 JUDGE ORIE: This Chamber has heard a lot of evidence about
18 Hambarine and knows where it is.
19 Mr. Lukic, again, what the witness apparently can testify about
20 is, I take it, that he has direct knowledge of the wounding of at least
21 the -- what remains as wounds of his neighbour. We have heard, if we are
22 talking about the same event, we are talking about, then we heard some
23 direct evidence about that, which I wonder whether the witness says that
24 he heard about this as well, whether that substantially adds something,
25 but certainly the wounds of his neighbour is new information but perhaps
1 not a surprise in view of the other evidence we received.
2 I'm wondering whether we go -- this is the first out of ten
3 documents. You have now gone already ten minutes above your time
4 estimate, which was 30 minutes, and I wonder whether -- how we will
6 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
7 JUDGE ORIE: If I -- then I may have been misinformed that you'd
8 claimed one hour.
9 MR. LUKIC: That's correct.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then if I made a mistake in that respect,
11 apologies for that. But please try to clearly elicit from the witness
12 evidence which adds to what is already in evidence and which is evidence
13 reflecting his personal knowledge, observations, et cetera, rather than
14 what he read in newspapers or what he heard in bars.
15 Please proceed.
16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, perhaps I should have asked you at the very
18 outset, what do you do nowadays?
19 A. Nowadays I am a member of the municipal assembly of the town of
20 Prijedor, and I am the president of the association of victims of the
21 attack on Prijedor.
22 Q. As president of the association of victims of the attack on
23 Prijedor, do you deal precisely with matters that deal with the attack on
24 Prijedor, the preparations for the attack, and so on?
25 A. Yes. I can say, publicly, that everything that happened in
1 Prijedor after the 30th of May -- actually, everything started with the
2 killing of the policeman Djapa before the 1st of May; then Hambarine, the
3 22nd of May. In the meantime, in Prijedor, normal life went on. Do
4 understand that. We lived a normal life. There weren't any problems in
5 town. And then on the 30th of May in the morning at quarter to 5.00,
6 they had planned and organised and prepared this action when they stopped
7 me on the road from the hospital to the hotel. I was driving there to
8 get to the injured persons. I didn't know what their ethnic backgrounds
9 were, what kind of wounds were involved. Nothing.
10 Q. Thank you. Let me just ask you this: Brdo, what does that have
11 to do with Hambarine? I asked you about that and you didn't answer.
12 A. Well, it is linked geographically, Hambarine-Brdo, then further
13 on Kurevo, and those forests in that area up there. So that area is when
14 you cross the Sana River. The Sana River. There were settlements there
15 where 99 per cent of the population was Muslim.
16 Q. You told us that some persons went to see these groups in Kurevo,
17 and we see that underneath the photo of Slavko Ecimovic in this text.
18 And now I would like to show you another document -- actually, first let
19 me ask you this: What was your in information? In the town of Prijedor
20 itself, were there supposed to be members of the Green Berets that were
21 supposed to join the attackers who had come from out of town? What is
22 your knowledge in that regard?
23 JUDGE ORIE: Is that leading, Mr. -- you just give the answer in
24 the mouth of the witness, "Is it true that you went with a red car
25 yesterday to Scheveningen," and then the proper question is what did you
1 do yesterday? Did you go -- [Overlapping speakers] ...
2 MR. LUKIC: We have [indiscernible] document, Your Honour. I was
3 asked either to ask first or introduce the document. I have to know what
4 to do.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, you have to properly examine the witness. That
6 is what you are supposed to do. If there is any specific matter you have
7 read in those documents about which you want to examine the witness, then
8 you put, to start with, questions to the witness primarily such as, where
9 were you, on what day, et cetera, and then you can compare that at a
10 later stage, but you don't put all the information from the document to
11 the witness first and say, "Is this possibly what happened?" That's not
12 proper examination-in-chief, Mr. Lukic, and I'm sorry to -- if you would
13 not understand that.
14 Please proceed.
15 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
16 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, you heard what I asked you. What do you know
17 about the forces that attacked Prijedor? What did they consist of? Do
18 you have any personal knowledge?
19 A. I do have knowledge to the effect that those days in Prijedor,
20 there were many unknown people who appeared, and most of them wore
21 tracksuits. That was sort of the way they organised one another. They
22 gathered in coffee bars that were still open and practically all of them
23 wore tracksuits.
24 MR. LUKIC: Can we have 1D2841, please.
25 Q. [Interpretation] Did you have any information as to how many of
1 these persons were in the town of Prijedor?
2 A. I did not have that information. Later on, I found out that this
3 was a large group that was supposed to meet with this other group that
4 attacked Prijedor that morning. However, these people did not respond
5 and did not react, so this group that had set out from up there, from
6 Kurevo, Brdo, et cetera, after all their plan failed; that is to say, to
7 take important points in town, SUP, the municipality, the radio station,
8 the barracks, and so on.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, could I ask you how did you learn later
10 that these were the plans?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] How did I learn that? Well, when I
12 returned from the military medical hospital in 1994, then I wanted to
13 find out the truth because at that moment when I was wounded, I didn't
14 realise that Prijedor was under attack. Do understand that I was wounded
15 at quarter to 5.00 in the morning. So I say publicly here and now, and
16 I've testified about that already, everything that happened, happened
17 after that; that is to say, those who had been preparing that operation
18 for a long time, secretly, and who knew exactly certain locations in
19 Prijedor that they were supposed to take, like Poversnje [phoen], Ribar,
20 the hotel, SUP, the radio station, Prijedor.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Let me stop you again. You say you gained this
22 knowledge after your return in 1994. Now, what is exactly, for example,
23 the source that you know that they intended to take the hotel or the SUP,
24 which is perhaps very logical that they would, but how did you learn that
25 those were their plans?
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'll tell you this. I was the
2 first victim, and then after that there were other victims, then another
3 young man fell victim in another ambulance. But all the others were
4 civilians, young men who worked in the State Security Service, in the
5 police, who were going to work, and right there in front of the
6 municipality and the Ribar, that is where they fell victim.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Now, that doesn't say yet what exactly their plans
8 had been, but you say people fell victim at those locations, and you
9 learned that after your return in 1994. Is that well understood?
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, because I was injured so badly
11 that I didn't know anything until I arrived in Banja Luka. I first came
12 to in Banja Luka.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Now, newspaper articles you have given to the
14 Defence. Did you learn from those articles in Kozarski Vjesnik as well
15 what had happened?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] These were articles that reported
17 about certain things that happened. I got real information from my
18 colleagues who lived in town, who worked there, and who knew what had
19 happened. Who were in town, who stayed there after 1992 when I went to
20 the military medical academy.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
22 Mr. Lukic, we'll take a break. Could you give us an indication
23 as how much time you think you would further need? Because we are -- we
24 have some concerns about evidence being presented which mainly consists
25 of a reconstruction of events a couple of years after the events took
1 place by someone who wasn't present, someone who holds a specific
2 position, by the way, a position which may be relevant for the evaluation
3 of his evidence but which was not mentioned in any way, if I see it well,
4 in his statement.
5 MR. LUKIC: I learned about it two nights ago.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, then you should have immediately informed. I
7 don't know whether you did.
8 MR. LUKIC: I did.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. That's at least --
10 MR. LUKIC: Not on that, actually.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Well, it may be --
12 MR. LUKIC: I named the position. Everything else I've asked him
13 now. I sent information report. I think you got the same, Your Honours.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Well, a position, a higher position, a certain
15 responsibility for a group of victims, of course, may be relevant to know
16 if you evaluate the evidence of a witness. But I leave it to that.
17 How much time would you need after the break, and I would urge
18 you to elicit evidence which meets the standards of what we expect from a
19 witness of fact.
20 MR. LUKIC: I just have to show two or three more documents.
21 Probably ten minutes.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Ten minutes. That's understood.
23 Witness, we'll take a break. We'd like to see you back in 20
24 minutes from now. You may follow the usher.
25 [The witness stands down]
1 JUDGE ORIE: We'll resume at 5 minutes to 11.00.
2 --- Recess taken at 10.32 a.m.
3 --- On resuming at 10.57 a.m.
4 [The witness takes the stand]
5 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lukic, you may proceed.
6 MR. LUKIC: Thank you.
7 If we can have 1D2843 on our screens, please.
8 Q. [Interpretation] Where is this article from; do you recognise it?
9 A. Also from Kozarski Vjesnik.
10 Q. Who is depicted in the photo on the left-hand side of the page?
11 A. This is my photo.
12 Q. We are interested in the top of the first paragraph on the
13 left-hand side of the page. It will also be the first paragraph in the
14 English version. [In English] But not bold but regular letters, yes.
15 [Interpretation] It says at the beginning of the paragraph --
16 [In English] It cannot be read.
17 [Interpretation] "The first report of the wounded arrived at the
18 Prijedor hospital from the Prijedor hotel at 0445 hours. Only ten
19 minutes later, Goran Dragojevic ..."
20 [In English]it cannot be read in B/C/S. It's really poor. I'll
21 read in English, so it ...
22 "Only ten minutes later, Goran Dragojevic left the hospital and
23 headed to the hotel in his Lada station wagon with red cross markings and
24 emergency lights switched on. There was nobody in the streets and the
25 rain was only beginning to fall. When the Lada arrived at the underpass,
1 out of the blue, bursts of fire from the left and from the right came
2 down on it."
3 [Interpretation] Mr. Dragojevic, is this a fair description of
4 what happened when you were wounded?
5 A. Yes. I left the hospital in the morning. My car was clearly
6 marked. I had lights on but no siren. I was on my way to the hotel. I
7 was supposed to pick up the wounded and bring them back to the hospital.
8 Q. When you were wounded on that occasion, did you recognise some of
9 your attackers?
10 A. Yes. There was a group of them, and I recognised a few lads who
11 had been my acquaintances before the war. I knew them and they knew me
12 very well.
13 Q. Would you like to tell us their names in open court, or would you
14 like us to move us into private session?
15 A. I would like us to move into private session because the
16 prosecutor's office in Bosnia and Herzegovina has already started
17 proceedings against them.
18 JUDGE ORIE: What exactly is the reason why we have to hear this
19 in private session?
20 MR. LUKIC: He does not want to accuse anybody so somebody would
21 be convicted because of his words. He wants to -- not to cause any
22 problems to anybody.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Well, I can't imagine -- I can't imagine that --
24 first of all, of course, if you give the names to the prosecutor's office
25 in --
1 MR. LUKIC: I don't know the names.
2 JUDGE ORIE: -- Republika Srpska, then I take that is with the
3 purpose of having them prosecuted, and I saw in the statement that the
4 witness says that nobody was prosecuted. But I can imagine, but that's a
5 pretty different reason, that --
6 Mr. Mladic, it's the same again. No such communication with the
7 public gallery. Is that clear to you? You know what the consequences
8 are if you continue like that.
9 I can imagine that if investigations are ongoing that the
10 integrity of those investigations may be served by hearing this
11 information in private session, but I'm also looking at the Prosecution
12 whether there is any objection against, perhaps for that reason, hearing
13 this information in private session.
14 MR. ZEC: Certainly there is no objection. None.
15 JUDGE ORIE: And do you have any awareness of investigations
16 ongoing or prosecutions being prepared, Mr. Zec?
17 MR. ZEC: Not entirely on this investigation or this specific
18 incident, and I don't think that we necessarily need names of these
19 individuals. But it's up to Mr. Lukic.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Mr. Lukic has asked for it. We'll turn
21 briefly into private session.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Before we do, I have a clarification question.
23 Sir, you say you knew these people. These were lads that you
24 were acquainted with. But this morning, at page 19, line 3, you say:
25 "I didn't know what their ethnic backgrounds were, what kind of
1 wounds were involved, nothing."
2 You were talking about the people who attacked you at the same
3 spot. Now you're saying you know them and you know -- some of them
4 you're acquainted with. Which one must we accept as the correct
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I apologise. I did not say, as you
7 have just put it, that I didn't know those people who opened fire on me.
8 Where did you -- where?
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: As I told you, it's on line 3 at page 19. You
10 say -- I'll just start in the middle:
11 "... there weren't any problems in town. And then on the 30th of
12 May, in the morning at quarter to 5.00, they had planned and organised
13 and prepared this action when they stopped me on the road from the
14 hospital to the hotel. I was driving there to get the injured persons.
15 I didn't know what their ethnic backgrounds were ..."
16 Or unless you were referring to the backgrounds of the people you
17 were going to fetch.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The people that I was going to
19 fetch. The hospital was asked to send a vehicle to transport the wounded
20 to the hospital. I didn't know their ethnic background.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, thank you. That explains my little
22 confusion. Thank you very much.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Then we briefly turn into private session.
24 [Private session]
11 Pages 35615-35617 redacted. Private session.
16 [Open session]
17 THE REGISTRAR: We're back in open session, Your Honours.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
19 Please proceed, Mr. Lukic.
20 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE ORIE: I took part of your ten minutes.
22 MR. LUKIC: I am closing to an end. Only at this moment, I would
23 offer those documents we looked with the witness.
24 JUDGE ORIE: And these were two of these articles, isn't it?
1 MR. LUKIC: Three. Yes.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Could you repeat the numbers.
3 MR. LUKIC: Yes. 1D02840.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.
5 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit D1050, Your Honours.
6 JUDGE ORIE: I hear of no objections. D1050 is admitted.
7 Next one.
8 MR. LUKIC: Next one is 1D02841.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.
10 THE REGISTRAR: That's Exhibit D1051, Your Honours.
11 JUDGE ORIE: D1051 is admitted.
12 MR. LUKIC: And the last one, 1D02843.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.
14 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D1052.
15 JUDGE ORIE: D1052 is admitted.
16 Please proceed.
17 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honours. I just have one more
18 question for this witness. Actually, two questions. I'm sorry.
19 Q. [Interpretation] At the time when you worked in the hospital,
20 after the take-over of power, did you see that non-Serbs were treated in
21 that hospital as well; that is to say, Croats, Muslims, Roma, Ukrainians?
22 A. Yes, I actually brought them from different places around
23 Prijedor; for example, where Ukrainians live, from Trnopolje, then where
24 the Roma live, a hamlet there, towards Puharska where other non-Serbs
25 live. Of course. All of that was normal, I'm telling you, until that
1 30th of May, 1992.
2 Q. One more question: What was your own attitude towards Muslims
3 and Croats when you returned from your medical treatment and today? What
4 is your attitude towards non-Serbs who live in Prijedor?
5 A. I'm just going to tell you one thing now. Before all of this
6 happened, I lived in a community where we lived together, Serbs and
7 Muslims, in a single apartment. I was born in a house where I was
8 delivered by a Muslim woman, and she took care of me as a baby and she
9 carried out those rites of theirs. So we lived as one family. To this
10 day, I have to tell you this, our socialising before the war, it was just
11 so wonderful. Perhaps others were envious of our wonderful friendships.
12 We went to the riverside, to Mrakovica, to Kotlovaca. They came to
13 celebrate our patron saints' days with us and when we celebrated
14 Christmas. We went to celebrate the Eid with them. It was an honour if
15 your best man would be somebody with a different ethnic background. That
16 was for us, and for them, regardless of whether somebody was a Serb or a
17 Croat or a Muslim.
18 I'm just going to tell you briefly about one detail, what touched
19 me the most, ever, throughout my life. In 1994, I came back after this
20 huge number of surgeries, and all that time the situation was very
21 difficult then. Life was hard in Prijedor. With about 10 marks, you
22 could live for about a month.
23 In 1994, two men came on bicycles from this area from out of
24 town, as we call it. They were Muslims. They brought me a gift to thank
25 me. Because before the war I was such a person that I helped them, I
1 saved their children, their families, drove them. This was a white
2 package that they received from Merhamet with the star and crescent where
3 all the things you'd needed, the bare necessities that you needed in your
4 home, were from this package from the charity organisation. And they
5 said, "We have nothing else to offer you, but we are bringing you this
6 and we're so sorry that those people who did this to you did it precisely
7 to you."
8 And now after that, my contact with Irfan Kurtovic, I mean, I'm
9 in touch with him all the time, then the nurse, the lady who worked
10 before the war, and then went to Pristina and then from Pristina to
11 Belgrade. And then after I fell victim, it so happened that I came to
12 her ward, Sabiha is her name, she took such good care of me there. She
13 bathed me as if she were my own mother because for six months I couldn't
14 do anything. I was just lying there like a book on the table. I could
15 just move one hand and that was it.
16 I want to tell you that, to this day, I mean now, my youngest son
17 just got married to a girl from a mixed family. The parents are Croats
18 and Muslims. I have no prejudice. I never looked at people that way, on
19 the basis of ethnicity and religion. I saw people through my work,
20 through my own life. I'm so sorry that this happened, and I'm saying now
21 that I wished that those who did that and those who did anything else
22 that was evil, I want them to be held responsible. I want them all to be
23 held responsible. Not just one side. May all perpetrators of all
24 misdeeds be held responsible.
25 JUDGE ORIE: I think you've answered the question.
1 That was your last question, Mr. Lukic?
2 MR. LUKIC: And I have one last after last. Just a short one.
3 This will be a short answer.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, make your question a bit longer as long as the
5 answer is short.
7 MR. LUKIC: Just one.
8 Q. [Interpretation] Today, Mr. Dragojevic, you are a member of the
9 municipality assembly and you're in charge of this association of victims
10 on the attack on Prijedor. Are you a member of any other organisation?
11 A. I am. Now I am a member of the travelling school of peace that
12 is organised by the UN and the OSCE. I'm the only one from Prijedor who
13 goes with all the victims from all of Bosnia and Herzegovina. We travel
14 and we speak to school children, rather high school students. People who
15 are from first, second, third year of high school. We tell them our sad
16 stories, and we tell them that they should not allow anyone to bring any
17 kind of discord amongst them, that they should try to live the way we
18 lived before the war, and that they should socialise.
19 I can tell you that we have got results. I have already received
20 certain tokens of recognition. The results are significant.
21 Q. Thank you, Mr. Dragojevic. At this moment, this is all we had
22 for you. Thank you.
23 A. You're welcome.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Lukic.
25 Before I give an opportunity to the Prosecution, I have three
1 short questions and could you please keep your answers short.
2 First, you told us about secret arming of non-Serbs. Did you
3 ever hear about Serbs secretly arming before the conflict bursted out?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Before the conflict broke out, I
5 heard that there was this Territorial Defence where weapons were being
6 distributed to Serbs and non-Serbs. That is what people talked about in
7 town and people knew --
8 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I'm talking specifically about arming of the
9 Serbs. Not arming over --
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no, no, no.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. Then you told us quite a bit about the
12 large number of people that had left, for example, Kozarac, and you told
13 us where they went, where they were boarding buses. Did you ever hear
14 about non-Serbs being led to places where they were not free to leave,
15 such as Keraterm or Trnopolje or Omarska? Did you ever learn about that
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, because afterwards
18 I was wounded, on the 30th, and then there was no Omarska, no Keraterm.
19 When I returned later, I heard about this Omarska.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. And not about Trnopolje, not about Keraterm?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. Later I heard about Trnopolje,
22 that it was a reception centre where some technicians worked and doctors,
23 people who were on duty, and people could leave whenever they wished and
24 they could enter whenever they wished, so they were there sort of for
25 safety reasons, safety and security.
1 JUDGE ORIE: Now, finally, you told us that the doctors in the
2 hospital just continued to work. Did you learn at any point in time
3 later that some doctors may not have been able to continue to work and
4 perhaps even were facing a bad fate?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When I returned from Belgrade,
6 since my house is nearby, I went there for having my wounds bandaged
7 again and so on, I found out that many doctors who were of different
8 ethnic backgrounds and some other employees had left the work
9 organisation in the meantime. They either went abroad or, quite simply,
10 I don't know what happened to them. But afterwards, they were not
11 working there. Some stayed on, very few, like Dr. Sprajcar and so on,
12 but quite a few were no longer there.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Do I understand that you never learned that doctors,
14 for example, were detained or even were killed?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Do understand that on the 30th of
16 May when I was injured, all of these doctors were working.
17 JUDGE ORIE: I wasn't asking whether they were working on the
18 30th of May. I was asking whether you learned at a later stage whether
19 you learned that doctors, for example, were detained or even were killed?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm telling you afterwards when I
21 returned, I heard that certain doctors stopped working there. And what
22 happened to them, whether they were killed, whether they went abroad,
23 well, now, like Dr. Newman [phoen], I came across him just before I came
24 here to The Hague. He worked in our hospital. Then Dr. Becir Begovic, I
25 see him every day. So some people I do see over there.
1 JUDGE ORIE: I was not asking you whether there were some doctors
2 working. But I'm asked you whether you ever learned or heard that
3 doctors were detained and were killed. And if you haven't heard that --
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no, no, no.
5 JUDGE ORIE: That answers my question.
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Dragojevic, you'll now be cross-examined by
8 Mr. Zec. You'll find Mr. Zec to your right. Mr. Zec is counsel for the
10 Mr. Zec.
11 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President. And --
12 JUDGE ORIE: Your time estimate remains the same, 25 minutes?
13 MR. ZEC: I'll do my best, Mr. President.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
15 MR. ZEC: And before I continue, I would like to raise just one
16 issue in respect of the article that we just got admitted into evidence.
17 I was waiting for an earlier opportunity, but the issue is that we don't
18 obviously object to the article, D1052, which relates to the witness's
19 personal knowledge. For the other two articles, the issue is that they
20 rely upon events or focuses to the events that the witness has no
21 personal knowledge about or, rather, very minimum.
22 So in that circumstances, we submit that this should have effect
23 at least to the weight of the articles to be given when Your Honours
24 assess the evidence.
25 JUDGE ORIE: We'll always assess the probative value of the
1 evidence which is before us. And you may have noted that I slowed down
2 quite a bit before I pronounced the decision to admit so as to give you
3 an opportunity to object, if you would have wished to do so.
4 MR. ZEC: Thank you.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
6 MR. ZEC: And the estimate is -- on the record it says 25
7 minutes. It should be 1 hour, 25 minutes, if I'm not --
8 JUDGE ORIE: Then for the second time today, I must have made a
9 mistake. But please proceed, but I am confident that we'll conclude the
10 testimony of this witness today and that even some time will be left for
11 practical matters.
12 Please proceed.
13 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President.
14 Cross-examination by Mr. Zec:
15 Q. And good morning, Mr. Dragojevic.
16 Today you told us that the SDS took over power in Prijedor on
17 30th April 1992, and you were also talking about Hambarine and other
18 settlement -- Muslim settlements around Prijedor. I take it that you
19 were aware, were you not, that in the week before 30th May 1992 the Serb
20 forces had carried out operations in Hambarine and Kozarac where large
21 amounts of civilian property were destroyed in these operations? Were
22 you aware of this?
23 A. In the statement, I stated that on the 22nd when those soldiers
24 were attacked, there was also the incident at Hambarine on that side.
25 And as far as Kozarac is concerned, when the civilians left on the eve of
1 that day, or rather on the day when the civilians left, they attacked a
2 soldier on a tank.
3 Q. I apologise. As you heard His Honour Judge Orie, the time is
4 limited. So my question was really focused to the civilian object
5 property. Were you aware that civilian property was destroyed in the
7 A. No.
8 Q. Were you aware that large numbers of non-Serb civilians were
9 killed in these operations? Were you aware of this?
10 A. On what day?
11 Q. As indicated, during the operations - for example, Hambarine,
12 Kozarac - in the week before 30th May --
13 A. No, that is not true.
14 Q. So your evidence before this Court is that this did not happen,
15 large numbers of civilians were not killed in these operations. Is that
16 your evidence?
17 A. Mr. Prosecutor, how could I have driven my ambulance and how
18 could I have transported people if civilians had been shot at? All the
19 civilians left Kozarac on the buses, and they were brought to the stadium
20 and to the area in front of the sports hall. There were no casualties on
21 that occasion at all.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, do I understand - and please focus your
23 answer on the question - the question was: Is it your evidence that in
24 the week before the event you described, before the take-over, that there
25 were no large number of civilians killed during military operations?
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What I stated in Susici was that
2 none of the civilians were killed then. I stand by that. There was no
3 fire opened on civilians at all.
4 JUDGE ORIE: The question was not whether a large number of
5 people were killed in Susici. The question was whether it is your
6 evidence that not civilians in large numbers were killed during these
7 operations. That's the question.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Again, you're putting things into
9 my mouth. There were no operations around that time. I don't know what
10 was going on later, because I wasn't there. I don't know what happened
11 next. I don't know. I wasn't there. I was not present.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, the question is about before the time that
13 you were wounded. You say there were no military operations? Not in
14 Hambarine, not in Kozarac?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the 22nd, there were attacks and
16 those two soldiers were killed and the others were injured. There were
17 activities and the army intervened to remove that check-point, according
18 to stories. I don't know whether there were any casualties on the Muslim
19 side. Because nobody brought them to the hospital. I didn't, nobody
20 else did, so I don't know.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. You don't know.
22 Mr. Zec, please proceed.
23 MR. ZEC:
24 Q. And one more final question on this before I move on. So is it
25 your evidence that you are not aware at any point in time that these
1 operations, such as Hambarine, Kozarac, Brdo, that their non-Serb
2 civilians were not killed? Is that your evidence or have you learned of
3 these casualties at any point?
4 A. I learnt about all that when I returned from the military
5 hospital. I learnt what had happened, where fighting had taken place.
6 All that happened after I returned from the military hospital in 1994.
7 Q. Hopefully we'll get to some details later on, but let me move on.
8 And I'm now focusing to the period after the take-over of power in
9 Prijedor by the SDS.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Zec, I nevertheless would like to seek the last
11 answer clarified.
12 You said you learned about fighting that had taken place, and you
13 learned that after you returned in 1994. As part of that, did you learn
14 that large numbers of civilians had been killed during those operations?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, nobody told me anything about
17 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
18 Please proceed.
19 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President.
20 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, I now would like to focus at the time after the
21 Serb take-over of Prijedor on 30th April, 1992. At the time you lived in
22 Prijedor in a neighbourhood called Cirkin Polje; right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. At that time, you were a member of the SDS; correct?
25 A. At that time, every single person was a member of a movement.
1 There was the HDZ, the SDA --
2 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, the simple question is: Were you at that
3 time a member of the SDS?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I was a sympathiser. I was not
5 a member. I did not have a membership card. I was just their
7 JUDGE ORIE: You've answered the question.
8 Next question please, Mr. Zec.
9 MR. ZEC:
10 Q. You say that you were wounded on 30th May 1992, and up to that
11 moment you worked as an ambulance driver at the hospital. As the
12 ambulance driver, you attended the premises of the Crisis Staff in
13 Prijedor; right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. You went there to obtain certificates for petrol; correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And these certificates that you obtained at the Crisis Staff,
18 they were approved and signed by a person called Slobodan Kuruzovic;
20 A. Yes, as far as I can remember.
21 Q. The Crisis Staff was located in Cirkin Polje in your
22 neighbourhood; correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And there was even a sign on the door of the building saying
25 "Crisis Staff"; correct?
1 A. I don't remember that at all.
2 Q. At the hospital where you worked, that hospital was the biggest
3 medical institution in Prijedor; correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. It was an important part of the community, and many patients were
6 treated there. Only those with complex cases were transferred to
7 Banja Luka or Zagreb or Belgrade; correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Among the medical staff who worked at the hospital, were people
10 who have different ethnic backgrounds --
11 JUDGE ORIE: There seems to be a problem with the sound -- yes,
12 now it's better. I saw that your microphone was switched on but
13 nevertheless it didn't reach us.
14 Could you restart your last question, where you started with "...
15 among the medical staff ..."
16 MR. ZEC:
17 Q. Among the medical staff at the hospital, there were people who
18 had different ethnic backgrounds. For instance, Dr. Risto Stojanovic,
19 [sic] who was a Macedonian, Dr. Zeljko Sikora had a Czech --
20 A. Correction, not Stojanovic. Stojanovski. He was a specialist, a
21 urologist. A Macedonian, yes.
22 Q. Thank you for that. And there was also Dr. Zeljko Sikora, and he
23 had Czech background; correct?
24 A. He was my neighbour. He lived some 300 to 400 away from me in
25 his house. As far as I know, he was not a Czech. They were Catholics.
1 We called them Pemci.
2 Q. Let me show you quickly one article about doctors at the
4 MR. ZEC: Can we have 65 ter 32611.
5 JUDGE ORIE: While we're waiting for that, could you tell us, was
6 Dr. Stojanovski, was he urologist or neurologist?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Urologist.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
9 MR. ZEC:
10 Q. So this is an article from Kozarski Vjesnik from 1991. So that's
11 before the war. And it talks about the achievements of seven doctors.
12 MR. ZEC: And in the B/C/S, we need the article at the bottom.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Do we have a translation?
14 MR. ZEC: My apologies. It seems that the translation is not
15 ready, so if I'm allowed I can maybe ask the witness to help us. I'll be
16 focusing very narrow portion of the article, so maybe the witness can
17 read us two sentences.
18 JUDGE ORIE: I take it that Mr. Lukic will be able to follow
19 whether any quote or any question relates to the text.
20 Could it be enlarged, the portion you're reading from, so that
21 Mr. Lukic is able to read it on the screen as well.
22 MR. ZEC: So we need the article at the bottom of the page.
23 Q. So basically, Mr. Dragojevic, article talks about achievements of
24 some of the doctors. And you see their photographs. You see their
25 names. The first photo is Dr. Risto Stojanovski that we already talked
1 about. So these people, these doctors, they worked at the hospital;
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Dr. Esad Sadikovic is mentioned here.
5 MR. ZEC: And if we can focus to the portion of the article that
6 talks about Dr. Esad Sadikovic. It should be middle part of the article.
7 Q. And it says there that he was born in Nis. Nis, that's Serbia;
9 A. I don't know where he was born. I only know that he was an ENT
11 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, the question was whether Nis is in Serbia.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Whether Nis is in Serbia? Of
13 course Nis is in Serbia.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
15 MR. ZEC:
16 Q. And Dr. Sadikovic, he was a Muslim; correct?
17 A. Well, that's how he declared himself, I suppose. Yes, for sure.
18 Q. His wife was a Serb; correct?
19 A. Yes, she was. I know that.
20 MR. ZEC: If we can now look at the text before the photograph of
21 Dr. Esad Sadikovic.
22 Q. And in the text below, it talks about him. I would like you to
23 read two last sentences from this portion. So do you see the photo of
24 Dr. Sadikovic?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Below that, do you see the part -- there it says
2 "Yugoslavia ..."?
3 A. "This probably the youngest doctor in Yugoslavia is the head
4 of" --
5 THE INTERPRETER: The witness is reading too fast.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Could you read more slowly, otherwise the
7 interpreters have difficulties in following you.
8 Could you restart where you read and then slowly, that this is
9 probably the youngest doctor. Could you restart from there.
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] "This probably youngest specialist
11 in Yugoslavia is a specialist and the head of the ENT department. Since
12 1985, he was the president of the Association of ENT Specialists. He
13 asserted his professionalism as a operative expert in the development
14 programme of the United Nations. Now he is a candidate for the World
15 Health Organisation expert."
16 MR. ZEC:
17 Q. Thank you. And these were some of the achievements accomplished
18 by the medical staff of the Prijedor hospital, such as Dr. Sadikovic;
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. These doctors, they were prominent members of the community;
23 A. Those two didn't -- were not. They worked in Bosanski Novi.
24 Q. But they worked in the Prijedor hospital, so they were well known
25 people in the community; correct? Regardless where they were coming
2 A. Slavko and Srpko Vujanovic worked in Bosanski Novi. Not in the
3 Prijedor hospital, you see? Dr. Rezo Sadikovic [phoen], Dr. Zivko Dukic,
4 Dr. Arif Bahtijaragic worked in Prijedor. The last was the head of
5 radiology, Dr. Tomislav Alenko [phoen], who was a specialist, a
6 neuropsychiatrist, and then he obtained a subspecialty. And
7 Dr. Stojanovski also worked in Prijedor.
8 Q. And these people that you just talked about, they were prominent
9 members of the community; correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Following the Serb take-over of Prijedor, the non-Serb medical
12 staff of the hospital were arrested and taken to places such as Keraterm,
13 Omarska, Manjaca. Were you aware of that, Mr. Dragojevic?
14 A. At a hospital? No, I'm not aware of that. I don't know of
15 anybody having been arrested at the hospital and taken from there
16 somewhere else.
17 Q. Dr. Sadikovic, he was killed at Omarska. His remains were
18 exhumed after the war from a mass grave called Hrastova Glavica.
19 Dr. Zeljko Sikora, he was killed at Omarska. His remains were exhumed
20 from Sekovaca [phoen] grave. So were you aware, Mr. Dragojevic, that
21 non-Serb intellectuals of Prijedor, such as the two doctors that I just
22 mentioned, were detained and killed? Were you aware of that?
23 A. No, I was not aware of that at all. When all that was happening,
24 I was not in Prijedor.
25 Q. You told us today that Dr. Osman Mahmuljin stayed at the
1 hospital. So did you also know that Dr. Mahmuljin was dismissed from the
2 hospital, he was taken to Omarska, and he was also killed at Omarska?
3 Did you know that?
4 A. I repeat: All that happened after the 30th and I was no longer
5 in Prijedor.
6 And let me tell you something else about Osman Mahmuljin. He was
7 like a brother to me. He gave me a Zippo lighter which I still have.
8 Two days before those things happened in Prijedor, we were sitting at a
9 terras in town. We were having cups of coffee.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, no one says that you had a bad relationship
11 with that doctor. The question was whether you were aware that he was
12 taken to Omarska and killed. And I think you've answered that question,
13 that you --
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know because I was not
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
17 MR. ZEC:
18 Q. Mr. --
19 JUDGE ORIE: Now you told us quite a few things what had
20 happened, what you found out later what had happened during your absence,
21 but I do understand that you never heard about this doctor which you
22 describe as someone who was like a brother to you, that he was detained
23 and killed. You never learned that, did you?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I did learn all that
25 when I returned. I heard that Esad Sadikovic and Dr. Osman Mahmuljin
1 faired badly. Even Dr. Vegic who tended to my wounds and gave me first
2 aid. I don't know how, when, where. I don't know any details. There
3 was nobody who could give me any details, so I never learned the details
4 of their fates.
5 JUDGE ORIE: But you did learn their fate even not knowing the
6 details, is that true?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. When I returned from the
8 military hospital, I learned what had happened to them.
9 JUDGE ORIE: I think I earlier asked you whether you learned
10 anything about those doctors, and then -- but let me just try to find it
11 for a second.
12 I asked you:
13 "Did you learn at any point in time later that some doctors may
14 not have been able to continue to work and perhaps even were facing a bad
16 And a few lines further down:
17 "Do I understand that you never learned that doctors, for
18 example, were detained or even killed?"
19 And then you said:
20 "Do understand that on the 30th of May when I was injured, all of
21 these doctors were working."
22 Then I said to you:
23 "I wasn't asking whether they were working on the 30th of May. I
24 was asking whether you learned at a later stage whether you learned that
25 doctors, for example, were detained or even were killed."
1 And then you said.
2 "I heard that certain doctors stopped working there. And what
3 happened to them, whether they were killed, whether they went abroad,
4 well, like ..." And then you gave a few examples that do not refer to any
5 doctor being detained or killed.
6 Then I said again:
7 "I was not asking you whether there were some doctors working,
8 but I'm asking you whether you ever learned or heard that doctors were
9 detained or killed."
10 And then you said:
12 And now, half an hour later, you tell us that you heard about the
13 killing of doctors. That is inconsistent testimony, and I urged you to
14 answer my questions, again and again and again, and you wanted to tell us
15 about all the good things that happened to doctors and all that you
16 didn't know. And now half an hour later, you're telling Mr. Zec that you
17 learned about the bad fate of those doctors.
18 I should warn you that you should think over well before you
19 answer a question.
20 Mr. Zec, next question please.
21 MR. ZEC: Mr. President, I see we are on break time. If I may,
22 one more question.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Please do.
24 MR. ZEC:
25 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, would you agree, would you not, that this
1 targeting of prominent individuals, such as Dr. Sadikovic, who was
2 medical expert for the UN, his detention in terrifying conditions of
3 Omarska, his killing would have a devastating effect on remaining
4 non-Serb population of Prijedor? Would you agree?
5 A. Of course. Everything that was inhumane towards anyone had a
6 horrifying effect on the rest of the population.
7 MR. ZEC: Your Honours, I would tender the article that we have
8 on the screen, 65 ter 32611. And I understand a translation is pending,
9 so we'll provide that as soon as possible.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Your Honours, the number to be signed will be.
11 THE REGISTRAR: That will be MFI P7387, Your Honours.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Marked for identification.
13 We take a break and we'll resume at 20 minutes past 12.00. The
14 witness may follow the usher.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Registrar, the number was not recorded. Can
16 you repeat it, please.
17 THE REGISTRAR: MFI P7387.
18 [The witness stands down]
19 JUDGE ORIE: We'll resume at 20 minutes past 12.00.
20 --- Recess taken at 12.02 p.m.
21 --- On resuming at 12.23 p.m.
22 [The witness takes the stand]
23 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Dragojevic, we'll continue. Would you please
24 carefully listen to the questions and focus your answers on what is asked
25 rather than other things.
1 Mr. Zec, you may proceed.
2 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President.
3 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, in 2003 you testified in the case of
4 Milomir Stakic as a Defence witness; right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. I presume it is your evidence that you told the truth in that
7 case; right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. So now I will now turn your attention to the evidence that you
10 provided this morning about your trip towards Kozarac, and you said that
11 you reached the place called Susici, and this morning you said it was
12 24 May 1992.
13 In Stakic proceedings when you were asked about this same event,
14 you said that you can't remember the exact date. It could be either
15 24th or 25th May, 1992. So do you allow the possibility that it could be
16 either one of these two days that you went towards Kozarac?
17 A. Yes. Either the 24th or the 25th. I don't know exactly
18 precisely, but I know it was roughly around that time.
19 Q. So just that we are clear on what happened that day, basically
20 you went towards Kozarac, you passed by a place called Kozarusa, and you
21 stopped in a place called Susici; is that correct?
22 A. Yes, in Susici exactly where the bus station is, and then there
23 was an awning there for buses.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Zec, when you put to the witness that he said
25 that it was on the 24th, the witness said that he thinks it was but he
1 couldn't tell the exact date. So could you please be very accurate in --
2 that's page 8, line 12 and 13.
3 Please proceed.
4 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President.
5 Q. And just that we are clear, Susici, that's a small place outside
6 Kozarac town. Is that about right?
7 A. It's on the main road between Prijedor and Banja Luka, before
8 Kozarac. A few kilometres before Kozarac.
9 Q. At the time in Susici there was a separation of non-Serb
10 population of Kozarac. Men were separated and taken to Keraterm, women
11 and children were taken towards Prijedor. So were you aware at the time
12 that this separation was taking place in Susici? Yes?
13 A. No, no. I was not aware of this separation. I was told and I
14 assumed and people were saying that they were taking them to the stadium
15 and to in front of the hall.
16 Q. But they also talking that men were taken to Keraterm?
17 A. Well, sorry, I couldn't really talk to anyone because I did not
18 have the right to do so. Only with my colleague, the technician. We
19 were standing next to each other. Who am I to be able to ask someone
20 what's going on here?
21 Q. Well, let me show you a statement of a colleague of yours from
23 MR. ZEC: If we can have 65 ter 31732.
24 JUDGE ORIE: And while we are waiting for that --
25 Witness, if you are able to tell us where they were taken, and
1 now you tell us that you were not able to talk to them and therefore you
2 couldn't know whether there was any separation, it's a bit inconsistent
3 to tell us, on the one hand side, that they were taken to the stadium and
4 that nothing happened to them, et cetera; and on the other hand side,
5 well, if you asked me whether they were taken to Keraterm, well, of
6 course, how could I know because I couldn't talk to them. That's not
7 fully consistent. I leave it to that.
8 And please wait for the next question by Mr. Zec.
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I say something?
10 JUDGE ORIE: Well, you may, briefly.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My task was as follows: People who
12 were frail, that I should drive them to the hospital, and what was being
13 said was that those people were being taken -- do allow me to say this.
14 These people were going down there. I didn't only drive people to the
15 hospital. Also to the building next to the stadium. Mr. Refko
17 JUDGE ORIE: You told us what happened to those people. You
18 didn't say: "The few I transported, I took them there," but you gave a
19 far broader statement. And now, asked about Keraterm, you say: "How
20 could I possibly, I couldn't talk to them."
21 That is what I pointed at. And carefully listen to the next
22 question that Mr. Zec will put to you.
23 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President.
24 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, on the screen in front of you is a witness
25 statement of your colleague, an ambulance driver from Kozarac. His name
1 is Dian Menkovic.
2 MR. ZEC: Can we have page 3 in both languages, focusing in the
3 paragraph in the middle of the page. It says in the middle of the
5 "On 24 May 1992 the shelling of Kozarac started. Many people
6 sought refuge in the basement of dump trucks and says that many injured
7 people were brought to the medical centre."
8 And in the paragraph below, he says:
9 "The following day a man came to our house and told us that
10 people were gathering close to the bank in Kozarac. I advised my family
11 to do the same, and when we arrived about 2.000 people were already
12 assembled. A truck and the ambulance which I used were brought to the
13 spot with injured people. We were directed to the village of Susici and
14 a separation was carried out. The men were put in one group and the
15 women and children in another. Next to or inside the house of Causevic,
16 Suljo, 10 - 15 men were killed."
17 And then explains that two other men were taken away.
18 A few lines below:
19 "Approximately 20 buses arrived and the men were taken to
20 Keraterm and the women and children were taken in the direction of
22 So, Mr. Dragojevic, I understand that you took some of these
23 civilians towards Prijedor; that's right, correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Were you aware that people were executed at the time?
1 A. No.
2 Q. I think you already answered, but these men were taken to
3 Keraterm. Are you still claiming you have not any knowledge about it?
4 And men were taken to Keraterm, to be more precise.
5 A. I have no knowledge about these people being driven to Keraterm
6 or whatever else you said, Omarska, et cetera. I certainly have no
7 knowledge of that.
8 Another thing, this gentleman, Mr. Menkovic --
9 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, Keraterm is in your neighbourhood where you lived
10 and worked. Did you see or hear people being brought there during this
11 period of time, yes?
12 A. Sir, I see that you're not familiar with this. Keraterm is not
13 in the neighbourhood where I live. I live close to the hospital,
14 50 metres away, and Keraterm, to the best of my knowledge, was on the
15 road between Prijedor and Kozarac. Right by the road. That is a
16 kilometre or two or three away from my house. I never went in there, and
17 I don't know the existence of Keraterm at that time when I was in Susici
18 and afterwards until I was wounded.
19 Q. And with respect to the these civilians that you took to
20 Prijedor, they were held in sports hall. And I understand from your
21 testimony this morning that you don't know what happened to them after;
23 A. Sorry, but you keep putting words into my mouth. I did not drive
24 people to the hall, see? I took people to the hospital, and I only drove
25 Mr. Refko Kapetanovic to this area Pecani near the stadium to his wife's
1 brother's apartment. I didn't take anyone to the stadium or I didn't
2 take them to the place in front of the hall. I was in an ambulance. I
3 had no access. Whoever they say that I should take out of these people
4 who were standing there, that I should take to the hospital, I did, and
5 then this Mr. Menkovic --
6 Q. Mr. Dragojevic, I think you answered my question.
7 JUDGE ORIE: I have, however, another question.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] All right.
9 JUDGE ORIE: You earlier said that none of the civilians were
10 killed then in Susici. We've seen the statement of Mr. Menkovic, who
11 says persons were killed. First question, were you there all the time or
12 did you intend to say that you did not see any civilian being killed
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Mr. Menkovic is
15 referring to Susici, and I - I - was on the road, the road, the road.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, I read again the portion of your evidence
17 given today. You said:
18 "What I stated in Susici was that none of the civilians were
19 killed then."
20 That's a clear reference to Susici. My question to you was were
21 you there all the time, or did you intend to say that you have not seen
22 any civilian that was killed there?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] While I was going and coming, none
24 of the civilians on that road in Susici at the bus station there, none of
25 them were killed.
1 JUDGE ORIE: Although, when you were further away it may have
2 happened but you wouldn't have seen it?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Now, what could happen while I go
4 all the way to Prijedor and come back, that I don't know. I didn't see
5 any of that.
6 JUDGE ORIE: So, therefore, earlier when you said that none of
7 the civilians were killed then, what you intended to say - and that's
8 different - is that you did not see or observe any civilian being killed
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, of course. I did not see any
11 of that. I did not observe any of that.
12 JUDGE ORIE: That's clear.
13 Now you wanted to say something about Mr. Menkovic. Could you
14 please tell us what you wanted to say about him?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Mr. Menkovic was an ambulance
16 driver. Mr. Menkovic had a white flag and he was in front, in front of
17 that column that was moving along the main road to Susici. And I did see
18 him. He was carrying the white flag. Now, what happened afterwards I
19 don't know at all, but I do know that he was carrying a white flag. I
20 know him as a driver.
21 But, Your Honour, he mentions the place Susici. Susici was on
22 the left and right of the road, whereas we were standing on the road, the
23 motorway between Banja Luka and Prijedor. We didn't go into villages and
24 towns. Please don't misinterpret any of this. This column was moving
25 along the main road, and that's where the buses were --
1 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, do you have any specific reason, any fact
2 to your knowledge, which would demonstrate that what Mr. Menkovic is
3 saying, especially about persons being killed, would not be true?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. I was not with him. I cannot
5 say, no.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
7 Please proceed, Mr. Zec.
8 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President.
9 Q. Now, Mr. Dragojevic, you told the Chamber in Stakic case that in
10 the period up to the end of May 1992, you were not mobilised and you
11 worked as a civilian driver of a civilian ambulance until you were
12 wounded. Do you stand by this testimony?
13 A. Not to the end of May, as you said. I fell victim on the 30th of
14 May. I worked all the time when I returned from Slavonia. Up until the
15 30th of May, I worked as an ambulance driver in civilian uniform, white
16 coat, and I had a red cross on my left sleeve.
17 Q. And you were not mobilised? After Croatia you were demobilised
18 and you were not mobilised until you were wounded. That's your evidence,
20 A. That was like work obligation. Do understand that. I was
21 demobilised and then I worked in the hospital and that was work
22 obligation. I came to work and went back and we worked in shifts, of
24 Q. I will read to you what Mr. Lukic asked you in 2003 in the Stakic
25 case. The question was:
1 "Up to the end of May 1992, were you mobilised again?"
2 Your answer was:
4 So I'm asking you again, is this correct what you told the
5 Chamber in Stakic case, yes or no?
6 A. Yes, yes. I was not mobilised.
7 Q. You say in your statement that you are now retired as a disabled
8 war veteran. So you did have a military assignment at the time, did you?
9 A. Not as a veteran. You got that wrong. As a disabled person
10 after the war.
11 Do you understand what work obligation is? I was dismissed from
12 the military, returned from Slavonia, but I did have work obligation to
13 work in my own work organisation, work unit where I worked before the
15 Q. Just to be clear, I'll read to you one more portion of -- that's
16 actually next question was from Mr. Lukic in 2003. He said:
17 "Throughout all that time you worked as a civilian driver of a
18 civilian ambulance?"
19 Your answer is:
21 So is this correct what you told to the Chamber in Stakic case,
22 yes or no?
23 A. Yes, civilian. It wasn't a military ambulance. It was a
24 civilian ambulance of the Prijedor general hospital.
25 Q. While you were in Belgrade for your treatment, have you heard of
1 a fund called Captain Dragan Fund?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And the Captain Dragan Fund, just so that we are clear, that was
4 run by a man called Dragan Vasiljkovic, and his fund provided support for
5 wounded Serb soldiers; correct?
6 A. I heard that.
7 Q. And just that we are clear about who Captain Dragan is,
8 Captain Dragan is Dragan Vasiljkovic who was a Serb warrior and who
9 established a training camp in Golubic near Knin in 1991 to train Serb
10 soldiers; is this correct?
11 A. I don't know. I don't know that.
12 Q. Do you remember making an application or receiving support from
13 this fund during your treatment in Belgrade?
14 A. I did not make any applications. However, when I was in
15 hospital, many associations came to visit us. I don't even know who.
16 They brought cookies and biscuits and this and that and the other. Maybe
17 somebody came from his association as well, but I personally don't know
18 that. No.
19 Q. I'm going to show you your application for the Captain Dragan
21 MR. ZEC: And if we can have 65 ter 31715.
22 Q. And if look over this first page, over your personal details, can
23 you confirm for us that the information is accurate?
24 A. Yes. But this is not my signature. I did not write that. Look
25 at my handwriting. This is not my signature. Especially at the time, I
1 could not even --
2 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, would you wait for the next question.
3 Mr. Zec.
4 MR. ZEC:
5 Q. Then who you say provided this information for this application?
6 I understand you didn't write yourself, you didn't sign it, but who put
7 this information on this application form; do you remember?
8 A. I don't remember at all. You have to remember that -- you have
9 to understand that I didn't know anything about myself or anything else
10 for six months. This is nonsense. I did not even know that I was alive.
11 I was fighting for my life. There was no way I could provide anybody
12 with any information. Perhaps there was a service there that did that
13 when people arrived, but not me. No.
14 Q. So you said that people from various associations came to the
15 hospital. Do you remember Captain Dragan Association people coming to
16 the hospital asking you questions, such as your personal details?
17 A. No. Nobody asked me anything. It was only later when I came to,
18 when I was able to speak about a month and a half later. Then the
19 service affiliated with the military hospital took my medical history,
20 asked me if I had suffered from any illnesses, if I had had any
21 surgeries, and things like that. I don't know about this. Anybody could
22 get hold of my personal details.
23 Q. Let's look the entry number 7. It says: "Contact with family,"
24 and the answer is "Yes."
25 So while you were in Belgrade, you were in contact with your
1 family in Prijedor, yes? Just yes or no.
2 A. After -- no. Because two months later my family did come to
3 Belgrade to live there. My wife is from Serbia and she brought two
4 children with her, and there was no need for me -- I'm telling you only
5 one time they called, perhaps 30 or 40 days later, to inquire, and a
6 nurse came and said "Somebody called you from Prijedor inquiring about
7 you." My wife and children arrived when the corridor was opened and when
8 people could pass. She came to live with her family in Veliko Gradiste,
9 Pozarica [phoen] so all the time while I was hospitalised in the military
10 hospital, she was there.
11 Q. This document is dated 24 July 1992. You were wounded on
12 30th May 1992, and then you were transported to Belgrade, Belgrade for
13 your treatment. So in this period during June and July 1992, you were in
14 contact with your family in Prijedor; right?
15 A. No.
16 MR. ZEC: Can we see page 2 in both languages.
17 Q. On this page there is a section number 2 or 3. It says:
18 "Information on wounding." If you look item number 1, below, to the
19 right, it says "Date and place of joining unit, unit name, unit
20 commander, and duty in unit."
21 The response is to the left, and it says:
22 "1st time: 16 September 1991, Prijedor.
23 "2nd time: 20 May 1992 Prijedor.
24 "Medical Company Commander Major Zeljko Maluka."
25 So, Mr. Dragojevic, contrary to your statement that you were not
1 mobilised, we see here, in fact, that you were mobilised on 20 May 1992;
3 A. On 20 May 1992? Mr. Prosecutor, I don't know how to address you,
4 I told you something: When I returned from Slavonia, there was a thing
5 called work obligation. Do you know what that means, work obligation?
6 Those people who were not militarily engaged on the front line had to
7 report to their companies and they were placed on work obligation.
8 People were couriers, guards, things like that. You have to understand
9 that. You had to do something, so I was under work obligation.
10 You should make a distinction between two things: War
11 assignment, my war assignment was in Slavonia. I went there with the
12 medical unit to Bijele Stijene, and then when I returned I was under work
13 obligation but Dr. Zeljko Matsura, not Maluka, but Matsura, he was chief
14 of medical unit, and I was still registered with that unit as a person
15 under work obligation. I had to drive people who were wounded because
16 I'm -- drivers of other ethnic backgrounds no longer wanted to do the
17 job. I had to do it.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Let's try to clarify this. Mr. Zec puts to you that
19 you were still a member of the armed forces because you were joining a
20 unit on the 20th of May, and you're telling us that your assignment when
21 being a member of that unit was that you had to transport and you were
22 not assigned a combat task but that you were assigned to do driving
23 services. That, apparently, is the issue. And unless there is anything
24 more about it, we could go on for ages, the witness saying it was a work
25 obligation and you saying you were part of a unit. The one doesn't
1 necessarily contradict the other.
2 Let's move on, unless there is any specific matter which would
3 make this so important that we should go through the deepest bottom of
4 the issue.
5 MR. ZEC: Thank you, Mr. President. The witness clarified that
6 he relates to work obligation, the starting point that he was a civilian
7 driving a civilian ambulance, but I take the point. I won't push this
8 issue anymore. I would simply tender the document into evidence and I
9 don't have any further questions.
10 Thank you. Thank you very much.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
12 Mr. Registrar.
13 THE REGISTRAR: 65 ter number 31715 will be Exhibit P7388, Your
15 JUDGE ORIE: And is admitted into evidence.
16 Mr. Lukic, any further questions for the witness?
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Before Mr. Lukic goes.
18 Mr. Zec, are you not tendering 31732?
19 MR. ZEC: My understanding, Your Honours, it's ICTY statement.
20 So my understanding it's not admissible in these proceedings.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you. [Overlapping speakers] ...
22 MR. ZEC: [Overlapping speakers] ... so that's why I didn't --
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: You're not tendering it.
24 JUDGE ORIE: You just put to that statement that a statement by
25 that other person is unknown and you do not tender it.
1 MR. ZEC: Correct and there's [indiscernible].
2 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
3 Mr. Lukic.
4 MR. LUKIC: I will have just a couple of questions but my client
5 wants to leave the courtroom for just a short period of time. So
6 maybe --
7 JUDGE ORIE: But would we take a short break then so that he can
8 follow the whole of the re-examination? Then, in that case, we would
9 like to know how much time we would pause.
10 MR. LUKIC: Maybe five, six minutes. But he has urgently to
11 leave the courtroom.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Okay, but that's -- okay. We'll take a very,
13 very, short break. That's 5 minutes, if that would do.
14 And then, Mr. Lukic, if possible, if we could -- if you would be
15 able then to conclude the evidence before the next ordinary break, and
16 after that, we'll deal with a few housekeeping matters.
17 We take a break of five minutes.
18 --- Break taken at 12.57 p.m.
19 --- On resuming at 1.10 p.m.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lukic.
21 Re-examination by Mr. Lukic:
22 Q. [Interpretation] Once again, good afternoon, Mr. Dragojevic.
23 A. Good afternoon.
24 Q. On today's transcript, page 43, line 7, my learned friend Mr. Zec
25 asked you about the Crisis Staff in Cirkin Polje. Was the Crisis Staff
1 seated in the municipal building in Prijedor, in the Prijedor town hall?
2 A. I wouldn't be able to tell you that.
3 Q. What was in Cirkin Polje then? Was it a logistics base or a
4 Crisis Staff?
5 A. Let me tell you this: I don't know any of those details. I only
6 know that we went up there to get those certificates, which we needed to
7 refuel our vehicles to take patients to Banja Luka and further on. As
8 for the rest, neither myself nor my colleagues needed to go there. We
9 did not need to communicate with them. The only occasion when we went up
10 there was when we had to travel to Banja Luka. We got a token or
11 something from them that we had to show at petrol station in order to
12 refuel the vehicle so that we could drive our patients to Banja Luka.
13 That was that.
14 Q. Thank you. In Mr. Menkovic's statement that was shown to you,
15 65 ter 3172, it says that he arrived in Omarska on the 27th May --
16 MR. ZEC: I would object.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Zec.
18 MR. ZEC: I would object on this point. The issue of the
19 statement that was put to the witness, very narrow issue, now we're going
20 to the whole new topic of Omarska which I didn't --
21 MR. LUKIC: But we challenged the statement. The whole statement
22 we challenged.
23 MR. ZEC: Yeah, but that was not the issue that was brought in
25 JUDGE ORIE: The statement is not --
1 MR. LUKIC: [Overlapping speakers] ... it's not the evidence.
2 JUDGE ORIE: -- in evidence.
3 MR. LUKIC: But it is shown to this witness with some claims.
4 JUDGE ORIE: No, there is only one small portion put to this
6 MR. LUKIC: Okay.
7 JUDGE ORIE: The witness may not have any knowledge about the
8 remainder of the statement. We asked the witness whether on the small
9 portion that was put to him whether there were any facts to his knowledge
10 which would cast doubt as to the veracity, the truthfulness of that
11 portion of the statement, and that is what was presented in
12 cross-examination. But let me just -- one second. And that's why you
13 should limit yourself in re-examination on that specific matter.
14 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
15 Q. [Interpretation] You were shown a statement by Mr. Menkovic, your
16 former colleague. He claims the following: By the house or in
17 Suljo Causevic's house, some 10 to 15 men were killed. Did you know
18 where Suljo Causevic's house was first and foremost?
19 A. I don't know where that house is. I told you that we were
20 standing on the road. We did not turn off --
21 Q. Thank you very much. I just asked you about the house and
22 whether you knew where it was.
23 A. No, I don't.
24 Q. Did you drive men from Susica?
25 A. Yes, I did.
1 Q. Did you see men getting on the buses together with women?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you see dead people lying around when you entered and left
5 A. No, I didn't see anybody.
6 Q. Thank you. And now let's look at P7388. You were told that the
7 document was provided by Captain Dragan's foundation, Captain Dragan
8 standing for Dragan Vasiljkovic. We don't actually see that on the
9 document but that's what we heard in the courtroom.
10 Let me first ask you this. On 24 July, how were you feeling?
11 A. I was in a bad condition. I had a surgery every couple of days,
12 and I was in the intensive care all the time.
13 Q. In our parts, when you're in intensive care, can people visit you
14 as they wish or is that a sterile room?
15 A. This is a sterile room. Only authorised personal in appropriate
16 clothes could enter. I did not have a piece of clothing on my body. I
17 just had a piece of cloth on my genitals. And the rest of my body was
18 exposed. There were wounds that leaked and they were left like that.
19 Q. In the intensive care, did you remember anybody visiting you and
20 interviewing you?
21 A. No, no, I don't. Nobody could enter the intensive care unit.
22 The first time I ever saw somebody was perhaps a year later. I was in a
23 normal room on Ward 13. I had a separate, sterile apartment, and people
24 could not enter at their own will. My wounds were still open. I had an
25 infection called osteomyelitis. Not everybody could enter my room and
1 see me.
2 Q. Thank you. Let's look at page 3 in this document. I'm
3 interested in paragraph under Roman numeral IV. At the bottom of the
4 document, we can see that the date is 24 July 1992. Above that, next to
5 the date 24 July 1992, we also see 6 of May 1993 and 19 July 1993.
6 A. So what are you asking me?
7 Q. Do you --
8 A. Let me tell you something if people don't know about that. At
9 the military hospital, I was first admitted at one department. Then when
10 I needed to undergo plastic surgery, I was moved there. Then pulmonology
11 when I suffered a lung embolism, then I was transferred to another
12 department. That's the kind of a hospital it is. And every time I was
13 discharged from a department, I would be provided with a discharge
14 letter. Whenever my treatment at a department was completed, I would be
15 provided with a discharge letter, I would be transferred to another
16 department where other interventions were planned and I had to undergo
18 Q. Thank you. You were asked about your contacts with your family,
19 and on line 2 here it says the wife and children are refugees.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Once then, can you tell us where your wife and children were as
23 A. They remained in Prijedor, and it was only after a certain while
24 when the corridor was opened and when that happened, I only learned it
25 later, they arrived in Belgrade. They spent three or four nights at
1 Sabiha Beslagic's house, she is a good friend of mine. And from there,
2 my wife went to Pribrode, in Veliko Gradiste to reside with her parents.
3 She spent 18 months there. My children completed some of their education
5 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lukic, I'm afraid we are losing ourselves in
6 details which are hardly of any relevance. That's what I think the
7 Defence started to do, then the Prosecution followed up, and they could
8 have perhaps better not done that, and now we are going into further
10 It's all about whether this witness was a member of the armed
11 forces when he was shot at when driving an ambulance.
12 Now, shooting at ambulances, whether they are civilian or
13 military, shouldn't happen. Now whether then, and that's not the core of
14 the issue, it was a civilian ambulance, apparently, that's what we hear
15 from the witness, whether it was driven by someone who was a member of
16 the armed forces on work assignment or whether it was a civilian driver,
17 I think you want to establish that these kind of things - that is,
18 shooting at ambulances - took place.
19 Now, what the relevance is to know exactly whether this witness
20 ended up in that ambulance as a consequence of a work obligation,
21 although being a member of the armed forces, or whether he was there as a
22 military man driving civilian casualties, that seems not really to be the
23 essence of what you want to tell us. Again, you started with it,
24 Prosecution was not wise enough to leave it in some -- to leave out some
25 details, and now we are seeking even further details.
1 Could you please consider whether this is all necessary to send
2 the message to this Court as I at least, and I think my colleague
3 understand, you want to send it to us.
4 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour. Thank you, Your Honour, I just
5 considered it, and I don't have any further questions.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. That's too quick a result for my
7 observations, Mr. Lukic.
8 Any further questions, Mr. Zec?
9 MR. ZEC: No, Mr. President. Thank you.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Since the Bench also has no further questions for
11 you, Witness, this concludes your evidence in that Court. I'd like to
12 thank you very much for coming a long way to The Hague and having
13 answered all the questions that were put to you by the parties and by
14 this Bench, and I wish you a safe return home again.
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] And I would like to thank you, too.
16 Thank you.
17 JUDGE ORIE: You may follow the usher.
18 [The witness withdrew]
19 [Trial Chamber confers]
20 JUDGE ORIE: I have quite a few items on my court agenda, that is
21 short decisions, but in total six pages, and sometimes we might need the
22 input of the parties. So under those circumstances, I would suggest that
23 we take a break. But there is another option, that we would continue. I
24 do not know whether Mr. Mladic wants to attend.
25 And, again, I have nine issues to raise and it's all the type of
1 housekeeping matters, admission of documents, invitations for further
2 submissions, et cetera. It's all that kind of stuff. And if Mr. Mladic
3 would prefer not to attend, of course he's fully entitled to, then it
4 would not come as a surprise and it would be totally understood.
5 MR. LUKIC: Mr. Mladic is willing to continue immediately and he
6 will be with us while you are reading the decisions.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then six pages of reading but then we still
8 might have an early adjournment today.
9 I'll then start with the first one, which is related to P7183.
10 On the 3rd of March of this year, the Chamber marked for
11 identification P7183, given Milivoje Simic's testimony that he did not
12 recognise his signature. The following day the Prosecution informed the
13 Chamber that the issue was being looked into by CLSS. This can be found
14 at transcript pages 32562 to -563 and 32599.
15 On the 10th of March, the Prosecution informed the Chamber via
16 e-mail that it had received a revised English translation of the document
17 and that this revised translation indicates that the document was, and I
18 quote, signed "for Milivoje Simic." This translation has been uploaded
19 into e-court under document ID number 0343-7439-1 ET, and the Prosecution
20 states that the Defence was provided a hard copy of the same on the
21 5th of March.
22 Unless there is any problem with it, Mr. Lukic. Apparently there
23 is not.
24 The Chamber hereby instructs the Registry to replace the English
25 translation of P7183 with the document uploaded under document
1 ID 0343-7439-1 ET, and hereby admits P7183 into evidence.
2 Next item is an issue remaining from the testimony of
3 Grujo Boric.
4 Exhibit P520 was used during the testimony of Grujo Boric on the
5 22nd and 23rd of April, 2015, and it appeared that the stamp on page 2
6 was not translated into English.
7 On the 1st of May, the Prosecution informed the Chamber and the
8 Defence, via e-mail, that a revised English translation had been uploaded
9 into e-court under doc ID 0048-9864 ET. The Chamber hereby instructs the
10 Registry to replace the current translation of P520 with the revised
11 translation of which I just mentioned the number.
12 Still in relation to the testimony of Grujo Boric, P7337.
13 During the testimony of this witness on the 23rd of April 2015,
14 P7337 was marked for identification pending the B/C/S translation.
15 On the 1st of May, the Prosecution e-mailed the Chamber and the
16 Defence and advised that the translation had been uploaded into e-court
17 under doc ID R000-4825-BCST. The Chamber hereby instructs the Registry
18 to attach the translation and hereby admits P7337 into evidence.
19 Still in relation to the same witness, 65 ter 32447.
20 This document was used on the 23rd of April, 2015 during the
21 testimony of Grujo Boric. It is a dispatch from the Main Staff military
22 prosecutor's office.
23 On the 28th of April, the Prosecution stated that it had
24 neglected to tender that document. This can be found at transcript
25 page 34722.
1 On the 30th of April, the Defence put on the record that it has
2 no objection to this document being tendered.
3 Madam Registrar -- or Mr. Registrar, I should say, it's an old
4 draft. Mr. Registrar, 65 ter 32447 would receive number?
5 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7389, Your Honours.
6 JUDGE ORIE: And is -- Mr. Traldi.
7 MR. TRALDI: I apologise for interrupting. I think it's been
8 subsequently admitted as P7386.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Then could we immediately verify that with
10 Mr. Registrar, and I could have --
11 You are right, Mr. Traldi. And I say this on the authority of my
12 colleague, Judge Moloto.
13 Therefore, the issue was moot, as a matter of fact, and I've
14 wasted time on dealing with it for which my apologies.
15 The next one, hoping that it doesn't have the same fate, is about
17 During the testimony, still of Grujo Boric, on the 23rd of April,
18 P7340 was marked for identification pending the English translation.
19 On the 12th of May, the Prosecution e-mailed the Chamber and the
20 Defence and advised that a translation had been uploaded into e-court
21 under doc ID 0701-1876-ET. The Chamber hereby instructs the Registry to
22 attach the translation and admits P7340 into evidence.
23 Mr. Lukic, as always, if there's any issue with the newly
24 uploaded translations, you always have 48 hours to revisit the matter.
25 Last item in relation to still witness Grujo Boric and his
1 testimony on the 23rd of April, 2015.
2 Exhibit number P7344 was reserved for the document bearing 65 ter
3 number 32449. On the 23rd of April, the English translation was pending,
4 and the Chamber invited the Prosecution to verify whether it was possible
5 to work with an extract instead of the entire document.
6 On the 1st of May, the Prosecution e-mailed the Chamber and the
7 Defence that the translation had been uploaded into e-court under doc ID
9 On the 4th of May, the Prosecution requested, via an e-mail, that
10 the entire document be admitted. The Chamber finds the full document to
11 be relevant and of probative value and therefore meets the requirements
12 of Rule 89(C) of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence, and the Chamber
13 hereby instructs the Registry to attach the translation and admits P7344
14 into evidence.
15 The next items relate to the testimony of Nedjo Vlaski.
16 During the testimony of this witness on the 5th of November,
17 2014, document D745 was marked for identification. The Defence at that
18 time stated it would ask for admission when it was able to provide the
19 Prosecution with information about the origin of the document. This can
20 be found at transcript page 27883.
21 The Chamber asked the Defence via an e-mail on the 25th of
22 November, 2014, and on the 2nd of March, 2015, whether it still intended
23 on seeking admission of this document. As of today's date, the Defence
24 has not responded, and the Chamber hereby denies the admission of D745
25 without prejudice. The Chamber gives the Defence one week to revisit
1 this matter.
2 Still in relation to the same witness, Nedjo Vlaski.
3 On the 5th of November, 2014, the Chamber asked the parties for
4 written submissions on D735 and D736 which both were marked for
5 identification. This can be found at transcript page 27888.
6 As of today, the Chamber has not received these submissions and
7 therefore sets a dead-line of one week for the Prosecution to make
8 written submissions, to which the Defence will have the usual opportunity
9 to respond.
10 I move on to a remaining issue in relation to another witness,
11 Vojo Kupresanin.
12 On the 11th of December 2014, D853 was marked for identification
13 pending an agreement between the parties as to the excerpt to be
14 tendered. This can be found at transcript pages 29668 through -669.
15 On the 31st of March of this year, the Defence advised the
16 Chamber via e-mail that the proposed excerpt had been uploaded into
17 e-court under 65 ter number 1D02036a. The Prosecution confirmed that
18 same day via an e-mail that it had no objection to MFI D853 being
19 replaced with this document and admitted into evidence.
20 The Chamber hereby instructs the Registry to replace MFI D853
21 with document bearing 65 ter number 1D02036a and admits D853 into
23 Next item -- I should say items deal with the testimony of
24 Goran Krcmar.
25 On the 2nd of March of this year, D920 was marked for
1 identification, pending a translation.
2 On March the 10th, the Defence advised the Chamber via e-mail
3 that the translation had been uploaded into e-court.
4 On the 30th of March, the Prosecution indicated that it had no
5 objection to the translation per se but it was unable to identify the
6 point during Witness Krcmar's testimony when D920 was actually discussed.
7 This can be found at transcript page 33849.
8 The Prosecution made further submissions in this regard on the
9 31st of March which can be found at transcript pages 33891 through -892.
10 In summary, the Prosecution doubted that document was used during the
11 course of Witness Krcmar's testimony.
12 On the 15th of April, the Defence advised the Chamber via e-mail
13 that it was withdrawing D920.
14 The Chamber hereby puts the Defence's withdrawal on the record
15 and marks D920 not admitted.
16 In relation to the same witness, on the 26th of February, 2015,
17 D917, a video, was marked for identification pending a selection of the
18 sequences by the Defence.
19 On the 15th of April, the Defence advised the Chamber and the
20 Prosecution via e-mail that copies of the excerpted video segments had
21 been provided to both the Registry and the Prosecution.
22 On the 11th of May, the Prosecution advised the Chamber via
23 e-mail that it did not object to the admission of the excerpted video
25 The Chamber hereby instructs the Registry to replace the current
1 version of the exhibit with the segments agreed upon between the parties
2 and admits D917 into evidence.
3 Before we continue, Mr. Registrar, is it clear what segments are
4 hereby admitted?
5 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. It is. Thank you.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Then I'll move on with the next item.
7 The next item is a remaining issue from the testimony of
8 Milorad Pelemis.
9 During the testimony of this witness on the 30th of March, 2015,
10 P7275 was marked for identification pending the B/C/S translation.
11 On the 1st of April, the Prosecution e-mailed the Chamber and
12 Defence that the translation had been uploaded into e-court under doc
13 ID X024-2786-BCST.
14 The Chamber instructs the Registry to attach the translation and
15 admits P7275 into evidence.
16 I move on. The next item is related to P3170.
17 In its decision on Prosecution's 30th motion to admit evidence
18 pursuant to Rule 92 bis, which decision was dated the 18th of December,
19 2013, the Chamber admitted into evidence redacted excerpts of the
20 transcript of Milan Tupajic in the Krajisnik case. This document
21 received exhibit number P3170.
22 On the 17th of April, 2015, the Prosecution informed the Chamber
23 that Krajisnik transcript page 15375, which was included in the annex to
24 the Prosecution motion and accompanying chart, was not included in the
25 uploaded version of P3170 and uploaded a revised version of P3170 into
1 e-court bearing 65 ter number 30579a.
2 On the 20th of April, the Defence informed the Prosecution that
3 it had no objection.
4 The Trial Chamber hereby instructs the Registry to replace P3170
5 by the newly uploaded document bearing 65 ter number 30579a.
6 I'll now deal with four Defence documents, the documents being
7 D767, D768, D769, and D896.
8 During the testimony of Cedo Sipovac on the 12th of November of
9 last year, the first three documents were marked for identification
10 pending translation and use with an upcoming witness. These translation
11 issues were resolved on the 3rd and the 24th of February, 2015.
12 During the testimony of Rade Javoric on the 10th of February,
13 D896 was marked for identification, pending use with an upcoming witness.
14 On the 12th of March, Miso Rodic testified about all four
15 documents, especially about their origin and the way they should be
16 interpreted. On the same day, the Defence requested their admission, to
17 which the Prosecution did not object. This can be found at transcript
18 pages 33102 through -104.
19 The Chamber finds that D767, D769, and D896 are relevant and of
20 probative value and therefore admits them into evidence.
21 Also on the 12th of March, D768 remained marked for
22 identification to resolve the translation issue which arose during the
23 testimony of Rodic. This can be found at transcript pages 33033
24 through -035. The Chamber asked the Defence via e-mail on the 10th and
25 the 30th of April whether a new translation was available. As of today's
1 date, the Defence has not responded.
2 Our question now is whether the Defence is now in a position to
3 give an update on the progress of providing a revised translation?
4 MR. LUKIC: Your Honour, sorry, I have to check with my Case
5 Manager. I really cannot tell anything at this moment.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. We give you an opportunity to address the
7 matter until the 22nd of May; that is, next week, Friday.
8 There are a few remaining issues from the testimony of
9 Witness Branko Basara.
10 During the testimony of this witness on the 21st of April, 2015,
11 P7321 was marked for identification pending the provision of a revised
12 translation and additional submissions concerning the document's
13 provenance. The same day, the Prosecution notified the Chamber that the
14 revised translation had been uploaded under doc ID 0048-2658-ET.
15 However, the Chamber has not yet received any additional written
16 submissions on admission.
17 The Chamber therefore instructs Mr. Registrar to replace the
18 existing translation with the newly uploaded one and sets a dead-line of
19 one week from today for the Prosecution to make its written submissions
20 concerning the document's provenance, to which the Defence will have the
21 usual opportunity to respond.
22 On the 24th of April, the Prosecution notified the Chamber and
23 the Defence that it also intended to offer into evidence two other
24 documents through Witness Basara: Document be bearing 65 ter number
25 27968a, for which Exhibit number P7322 was reserved; and document bearing
1 65 ter number 31876a. The Chamber invites the Prosecution to make its
2 submission or requests for admission on the record at the earliest
4 I had no further items on my agenda. The parties have no further
5 issues to be raised.
6 We adjourn for the day and we will resume Monday, the 18th of
7 May, 9.30 in the morning, in this same courtroom, I.
8 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.53 p.m.,
9 to be reconvened on Monday, the 18th day
10 of May, 2015, at 9.30 a.m.