1 Monday, 27 November 2006
2 [Closed session]
11 Pages 7359-7396 redacted. Closed session
16 [Open session]
17 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.
18 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
19 Ms. Kravetz, your next witness.
20 MS. KRAVETZ: Good morning, Your Honours. The next Prosecution
21 witness is Mr. Caslav Golubovic, and his testimony is relevant to
22 paragraphs 75(d) and (h) and 77 of the indictment. And he will be
23 testifying as a live witness.
24 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
25 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
1 [The witness entered court]
2 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, Mr. Golubovic.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
4 JUDGE BONOMY: Would you please make the solemn declaration to
5 tell the truth by reading aloud the document which will now be placed
6 before you.
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak
8 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
9 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Please be seated.
10 The first person to ask you some questions will be on behalf of
11 the Prosecution, that will be Ms. Kravetz, who is on your right.
12 Ms. Kravetz.
13 MS. KRAVETZ: Thank you, Your Honour.
14 WITNESS: CASLAV GOLUBOVIC
15 [Witness answered through interpreter]
16 Examination by Ms. Kravetz:
17 Q. Good morning, Witness. Could you please state your full name for
18 the record.
19 A. My name is Caslav Golubovic.
20 Q. Where and when were you born, Mr. Golubovic?
21 A. I was born in 1937 on the 15th of May in Pristina.
22 Q. What is your occupation?
23 A. I'm now retired; otherwise, I had a degree in law.
24 Q. In 1999, Mr. Golubovic, were you the chief of the SUP or
25 Secretariat of Internal Affairs in the town of Bor, Serbia?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Since when had you occupied this position?
3 A. From 1982.
4 Q. Could you tell us exactly where Bor is located.
5 A. Bor is in the eastern part of Serbia, close to the border with
6 Romania and Bulgaria?
7 Q. And what is the area of responsibility of the Bor SUP?
8 A. Well, the SUP of Bor covered the area of Bor, Negotin, Kladovo,
9 and Majdanpek municipalities.
10 Q. Which police stations fell under this SUP, the Bor SUP?
11 A. Only the base in Bor, the Department of Internal Affairs in
12 Negotin, the department in Majdanpek, and the department in Kladovo.
13 Q. You said that you're now retired. When did you retire from your
14 position as chief of the Bor SUP?
15 A. On the 31st of December, 2000.
16 Q. And which rank did you hold at the time of your retirement from
17 the MUP?
18 A. I had the rank of colonel.
19 Q. Thank you. Turning now to events that took place in April 1999,
20 do you recall where you were on the evening of 6th April 1999 at around
21 6.30 in the evening?
22 A. Well, I was in Bor, close to my house on the Bor Lake.
23 Q. Do you recall if you received a phone call around that time, on
24 that date?
25 A. Around 1800 hours, Toma Miladinovic called me; he was chief of the
1 criminal investigations in the SUP of Bor. And he told me that he had
2 received some sort of dispatch from Kladovo that day and that something
3 had happened in Tekija, in Kladovo.
4 Q. You say that Mr. Miladinovic called you and told you that he had
5 received some sort of dispatch from Kladovo. Did he specify exactly what
6 sort of information he had received?
7 A. Well, he said that the dispatch said that at Tekija village, a
8 refrigerator truck emerged from the Danube, filled with corpses, 20 to 30
9 corpses; that they had tried to recover the truck and perform an on-site
10 investigation involving the municipal prosecutor and the investigating
11 judge from Kladovo and a certain number of the police, of course;
12 however, unsuccessfully.
13 They did not manage to recover the truck completely, and it
14 remained stranded on the bank. When he told me that of course, I told him
15 to get ready. I found a driver, and we set out to go there and see what
16 it was all about.
17 Q. Did he tell you who in Kladovo had sent this dispatch, who had
18 conveyed this information to him?
19 A. He did not tell me the name of the person, but there is a standard
20 procedure; whereby, the duty service from Kladovo sent the dispatch to the
21 duty service, the desk, in Bor. And it was obviously something that
22 belonged in the line of work of the criminal investigations.
23 Q. After receiving this information, did you and Mr. Miladinovic then
24 head to Kladovo?
25 A. Yes. When the driver arrived, I went from the lake to the town of
1 Bor and set out to Kladovo together with Miladinovic, and that's about
2 110, 120 kilometres away from Bor.
3 Q. Where exactly in Kladovo did you go to?
4 A. Even before we left Bor, I called up the chief of department in
5 Kladovo and told him to wait for me at his office, that I was coming, and
6 that he should have his men who had been working on the case that day with
7 him when I get there.
8 Q. You said you called the chief of department in Kladovo. Who --
9 could you tell us the name of this person. Who exactly did you call?
10 A. Vukasin Sperlic.
11 Q. When you arrived to Kladovo, I understand you went to the police
12 station in Kladovo. Is that correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And who did you meet there at the police station when you arrived?
15 A. At that office there was a number of people from the station, or
16 rather, the Department of Internal Affairs in Kladovo, that is chief
17 Vukasin Sperlic. There was also Milan Stojanovic. It's really difficult
18 for me to remember all the names now. There was the municipal prosecutor
19 from Kladovo, the investigating judge, the president of the court who was
20 in charge of investigations, as well as head of the centre from the State
21 Security Service, together with another employee, plus another two men
22 from the department of internal affairs in Kladovo; and I believe the
23 commander of the border-crossing at Djerdap, and of course Toma and myself
24 added to that number.
25 Q. Once you arrived at the police station, did you then have a
1 meeting with these persons that you just mentioned?
2 A. Well, since I had told them to wait for me there together with the
3 head of department, of course I held a briefing in order to elicit
4 information about the case and about what had been done until that point.
5 Q. Could you tell us what was discussed during this meeting, what
6 information was conveyed to you about the developments in -- up to that
8 A. Well, Sperlic briefed me that on the previous day, citizens
9 reported that there was something floating in the Danube. On the evening
10 of that day, it was reported to the Department of Internal Affairs in
11 Kladovo. And one or two men from the department went on site to check out
12 the reports. And if I remember correctly - it's been many years- they
13 took a diver with them. And since that floating object was close to the
14 bank, they just tied it in and roped it to a tree on the bank. Since they
15 had a diver with them, they found out it was a refrigerator truck; and
16 then dark fell and they stopped work for that day.
17 On the next day, the 6th, an on-site investigation team took off
18 from the secretariat, or rather, the department. They organised an
19 attempt to recover the truck from the water with a crane, worked until
20 noon or afternoon. They did not manage to haul the truck on to the bank,
21 because the crane was not powerful enough. So the truck was hauled out
22 only partially, and then the investigating judge came with the municipal
23 prosecutor and proceeded with the first steps in an investigation. I was
24 informed that when the door was opened, because the truck had its back to
25 the bank, they saw bodies, 20 to 30 corpses, which they stated in the
1 dispatch. They closed the door then. The investigating judge and the
2 municipal prosecutor refused to perform the on-site investigation, because
3 they believed it was within the jurisdiction of a higher-ranking court;
4 and we were informed at their request.
5 In the meantime, it got dark and work was ended for that day. And
6 that's how we received that dispatch from Bor, stating the facts; namely,
7 that a refrigerator truck had been partially recovered containing a
8 certain number of bodies, and that they had informed the district
9 prosecutor and the district investigating judge. And that was it until my
10 arrival. After receiving this report given to me by Toma Miladinovic --
11 Q. May I interrupt you there, Mr. Golubovic, before you go further?
12 MR. LUKIC: Yes, but I think I have to intervene.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.
14 MR. LUKIC: This is not an objection, but Mr. Golubovic said
15 regarding the investigation that they always performed the investigation
16 on the request, either of the investigating judge or the prosecutor, and
17 that has not been entered into the transcript. And if you want, you can
18 clarify it with the witness. And it should fall on page 46, line 2, after
19 the word "request."
20 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Golubovic, can you confirm whether you said
21 that you always performed your investigation on the request, either of the
22 investigating judge or the prosecutor.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. Under normal circumstances,
24 that's what the regulations prescribe. The police come out to the scene,
25 gather information, then the investigating judge conducts an investigation
1 and directs the police what to do. In normal circumstances, when
2 everything is normal - how shall I put it?
3 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
4 Ms. Kravetz.
5 MS. KRAVETZ: Thank you, Your Honour.
6 Q. Mr. Golubovic, you said that they informed you that they saw
7 bodies, around 20 to 30 corpses. Were -- based on what the police staff
8 at Kladovo was able to observe, were any assumptions made as to where
9 these bodies came from?
10 A. You know what? That was the first information that we received;
11 and I think that on the first day, on the 5th, there was another dispatch.
12 And in that dispatch the presumption was that there had been a traffic
13 accident on that road along the Danube river, and that was the first
14 assumption before the refrigerating truck or the object was dragged on to
15 the bank.
16 Our assumption was that up river a traffic accident had occurred
17 and that that truck slid into the river. We had many -- on many previous
18 occasions that the Danube on that spot would spout out bodies, vehicles,
19 and years before this part of the bank was a channel for smuggling of
20 contraband. So our initial assumptions were in that direction until the
21 refrigerator truck had been partly recovered and until we hadn't opened
22 the door.
23 Q. And once you -- they had opened the door, what assumption did they
24 make based on the observations of these bodies as to where the bodies came
1 A. So that assumption that there had been a traffic accident was
2 dismissed, and now the working theory that something else had happened.
3 And this is why the dispatch was sent to the SUP of Bor. They asked for
4 me, and they asked for further actions and steps because the municipal
5 prosecutor and the municipal investigating judge did not want to proceed
6 with the further investigations.
7 Q. Were you told anything about the truck itself, if anything was
8 written on the truck?
9 A. No. At that point, apart from the information about what had
10 happened and what had been found, I simply wanted to take stock of the
11 situation to see what is to be done next. First, I had received
12 information what had they done that day; and, of course, I phoned my
13 superior officer in the Ministry of the Interior, General Djordjevic,
14 seeking further instructions on how to proceed in this situation, given
15 that the court did not want to continue investigations.
16 Although the district prosecutor had been contacted, none of them
17 called back. So it was up to us to see what was to be done. I reached
18 General Djordjevic on the phone. I briefed him about what I'd been
19 briefed on. I relayed in a more succinct form what I had been told.
20 Q. You said that you called General Djordjevic. Was he your
21 immediate superior at the time?
22 A. He was my superior. He was head of the public security sector in
23 the ministry; and in wartime circumstances, during the state of war, of
24 course you have to inform your immediate superior, whoever can be reached.
25 He was available on the phone, and this is who I then briefed.
1 Q. You said you had contacted the district prosecutor and judge.
2 From which jurisdiction were they that you thought would be competent over
3 this incident?
4 A. I did not say that I contacted. I said that they were informed
5 about the event, but they did not call back. Apart from the municipal
6 prosecutor and the municipal investigating judge who attended that
7 meeting, I had no contacts with anybody else from the judicial system.
8 And the district prosecutor was reported as per regulations and as per
9 reporting lines about this event.
10 Q. And this district prosecutor, which was the jurisdiction where he
11 -- where he was operating?
12 A. District prosecutor has the seat in Negotin, as well as the
13 investigating judge. He covered the area of Kladovo, Majdanpek, and
14 Negotin. The municipality of Bor was not part of that jurisdiction; it
15 was under the district court in Zajecar, but he did cover Kladovo within
16 his jurisdiction.
17 Q. Now, you said that you called your superior, General Djordjevic.
18 What was General Djordjevic's reaction when you conveyed this information
19 to him?
20 A. I briefed him, and my impression of his first reaction was that he
21 was also surprised, judging by the words that he uttered. And judging by
22 his voice, I believe he was surprised by the news I imparted.
23 Q. Do you recall what he said to you during that conversation?
24 A. Since I sought instructions from him, he said that he'd be calling
25 back, not for me to wait on an open line, but to stay on in my office
1 until after he'd consulted the minister or somebody else; and then he said
2 that he'd be calling me back with further instructions.
3 Q. You said that he would call you back after he'd you consulted the
4 minister. Which minister are you referring to?
5 A. Minister of the Interior. Other ministers had nothing to do with
6 this. Only the y of the Interior was in charge, and that was Djordjevic's
7 ministry and mine.
8 Q. And who was the Minister of the Interior at the time?
9 A. At that time, the late Vlajko Stojiljkovic.
10 Q. Now, did General Djordjevic call you back after you hung up from
11 that first phone call?
12 A. In some ten, 15 minutes he called back. He called and he told me
13 to try to retrieve all the bodies, and at that initial moment that figure
14 was known. He was taken to be known up to 30; and as per orders and
15 arrangements that he made with the minister, that we were supposed to
16 retrieve the bodies and bury them in Kladovo.
17 Q. Did he give you any further instructions on how to proceed?
18 A. No, no. He just invoked the minister's authority and told us what
19 to do. Given the circumstances, the state of war, and the fact that it
20 was in the border area, we needed no further instructions. It was enough
21 to be said to retrieve the bodies and to inter them, and that's it.
22 Q. Did he say anything about what you were to do with the truck, the
23 refrigerator truck that was in the river?
24 A. No. At that moment we did not discuss that. Later on during the
25 night, this became the topic of discussion; but initially in that first,
1 rather, second telephone contact, this was not what we discussed. Because
2 later on, the situation changed dramatically.
3 Q. Thank you. Now, did you convey these instructions that General
4 Djordjevic gave you to the other persons present at the Kladovo police
6 A. They overheard my conversation because they were present around
7 me. They listened to my briefing of the general and those people who were
8 in the station, and I believe that judging by my reactions and my words
9 they knew what the general had ordered.
10 Q. What steps did you and the Kladovo police staff take to implement
11 these instructions?
12 A. As far as I can remember, we undertook measures to secure
13 transportation vehicles, sheets, blankets. Because the people from
14 Kladovo, as far as I was informed, since they thought that a smaller
15 number of corpses were there, they had procured a smaller number of
16 coffins; then we decided to depart from Kladovo to the place in Tekija and
17 a criminal technician, criminal investigation technicians, and other
18 operatives were supposed to provide the means for this action to be taken,
19 for the bodies to be retrieved, transported.
20 For that purpose, we took a truck from the municipal company to be
21 able to perform the task. At a certain point in time, people tasked with
22 this went to carry out their tasks, to provide vehicles. We took a
23 service vehicle to the border police station at Tekija. That was maybe at
24 2100 hours, 2130, around that time; and then we departed from the Kladovo
25 police department to Tekija.
1 Q. Now, other than the staff from the police station, who else was
2 involved in performing these tasks of retrieving the bodies from the
3 truck, if anyone else?
4 A. A number of people from the municipal company, the funeral service
5 municipal company in Kladovo, some five to six people. I never had
6 interaction directly with them. I wasn't there. I'm not sure whether
7 anybody outside the ranks of the police -- I believe that there was a
8 number of employees of the municipal company taking part.
9 Q. Now, you said that you departed from the Kladovo police station to
10 Tekija. Where exactly in Tekija did you go to?
11 A. We went to the key -- there is an office with a telephone line of
12 the border police outpost, so that we may maintain communication and be
13 close to the crime scene.
14 Q. Did you again report to General Djordjevic that night about the
15 developments that were taking place?
16 A. I don't know whether this was a report. I don't know how you
17 interpret the word "informacija" or information. The first instruction, I
18 wouldn't call it an order. An instruction was issued what to do when
19 these bodies were being retrieved and transported to the truck that we had
20 secured. It became apparent that the number of bodies were higher than
21 the previously assessed number of 30. People from the scene reported back
22 to me. I was in an office. I wasn't on the spot, and this of course
23 changed the whole situation.
24 I phoned General Djordjevic from that office again and told him
25 and proposed, in essence, that we had no -- not sufficient resources to be
1 able to carry out this task during that night, that the number of corpses
2 was higher than previously presumed, that in the area we had no
3 pathologists or people who would identify the bodies. So that -- that we
4 could not perform this task. This was the gist of the conversation, and I
5 proposed to the general and said, in essence, that it would be best for
6 the bodies to be transported to a major urban centre, either Nis or
7 Belgrade where there are top pathologists and where the proper examination
8 investigation, under the rules and regulations, could be carried out.
9 Q. Do you recall approximately at what time you had this conversation
10 with General Djordjevic?
11 A. I presume, taking into account when we departed, et cetera, I
12 believe that it was around 10.30, 11.00 p.m., around that time. The
13 situation did not allow me to keep track of time or to keep a log of
14 events. But taking into account the time of our departure and the steps
15 taken, I believe that this was done approximately around 2230 or 2300
16 hours, around that time.
17 Q. By that time when you made this phone call, had you received any
18 additional information as to -- from the persons that were at the scene as
19 to from where these bodies could have come from, the bodies that were in
20 the truck?
21 A. The reason why I had called general to tell him that I had
22 received information from the scene, that the number of corpses was higher
23 than -- than previously reported. The first presumption was 30. Now we
24 figured out that there were maybe 50 or more, and that we had no resources
25 to process this investigation and -- there at Tekija. And this is why I
1 suggested that we should transport these bodies to a major urban centre,
2 where there would be physicians and pathologists and other personnel who
3 could conduct a proper investigation.
4 Q. Had you received any information as to the bodies themselves,
5 whether there were bodies of male persons or whether there were also women
6 and children in the truck?
7 A. Information that corpses were of both men and women was received
8 by me during the briefing at Kladovo; and in Tekija in the office, there
9 were people constantly coming in, coming out, coming from the scene,
10 reporting on progress, on what had been done, and this is when I received
11 such information.
12 Q. Did they tell you, these persons that were coming to you to report
13 the progress, did they tell you anything about how these bodies were
14 dressed, whether they were, for example, in civilian clothes?
15 A. They said that men wore civilian clothes of -- being of different
16 age, that women were of different age as far as could be ascertained, and
17 that they had the so-called billowing pants; although billowing pants are
18 not worn exclusively by Albanians, but also Roma women and Serb women in
19 Kosovo. But this was the gist of the information.
20 Q. You said that some of the bodies had billowing pants which are not
21 wore exclusively by Albanians. Are you -- by that time, had you made any
22 assumptions as to whether these bodies had actually came from Kosovo or
23 from somewhere else?
24 A. No. There was the assumption in the initial information that I
25 received at Kladovo that the truck was, I believe, from Prizren. There
1 were no number plates on it, but that it had markings from Prizren,
2 Kosovo. This is the only thing that could be established at the time. A
3 more detailed report on the truck or on the bodies had not been done. The
4 assumption was that it came -- the truck came from Kosovo.
5 There were markings of a company headquartered at Prizren, but
6 this was not the most important thing to be done. At the time, there were
7 more important considerations. So these are the assumptions that amounted
8 to our impression that the truck came from Kosovo.
9 Q. Now, you said that you suggested to General Djordjevic that the
10 bodies should -- given the number of bodies, they should be taken
11 somewhere else, and I think you mentioned Belgrade or Nis. What was
12 General Djordjevic's reaction to this suggestion?
13 A. Well, since the general initially reckoned with the initial number
14 or the figure that I reckoned with as well, the discussion went about the
15 point that it would be difficult to investigate this anywhere. But he
16 eventually accepted my suggestion not to bury the corpses in the area of
17 Kladovo, but to transport them by trucks to Belgrade.
18 Q. And did the workers finish unloading the bodies that evening from
19 the truck?
20 A. You know what? To cut a long story short, I must tell you that
21 this was done under very difficult circumstances. The truck was some 30,
22 40 metres from the road. It was half drawn out on to the bank. It was
23 very steep; and by midnight, we had managed to retrieve 30 bodies, only 30
24 bodies, that we placed on the single truck that we had available at the
25 time. And this was it, as far as the job went that evening. So this was
1 the number of corpses retrieved from the refrigerator truck on to the
2 municipal truck. It was 30. Conditions were very difficult. We worked
3 in the dark. There was no lighting. It was very difficult terrain, and
4 it demanded quite a lot in terms of effort from the personnel who were
5 performing the tasks.
6 Q. Once these 30 bodies were loaded on to that single truck that you
7 mentioned, where were they transported to?
8 A. I called General Djordjevic then. We had several telephone
9 conversations on that night. Those bodies were transported in the
10 direction of Belgrade. It was said they should be transported to
11 Belgrade, and it would -- it was difficult for us to find the driver to
12 drive the truck to Belgrade. I persuaded my driver to perform this task
13 because there were no other drivers that could drive the truck, and we had
14 received instructions to drive the truck to Belgrade. And during the
15 night, maybe half past 2.00 or 3.00, it departed from Tekija through
16 Milanovac towards Belgrade.
17 Q. You said you persuaded your driver to perform this task. Could
18 you give us the name of your driver?
19 A. Ljubinko Ursuljanovic was the name of the driver. He was my
20 driver. He had a driver's permit for different categories of vehicles.
21 Q. Did your driver tell you where, in Belgrade, he transported these
22 bodies to?
23 A. The agreement was when he departed - I spoke to either General
24 Djordjevic or somebody else who answered the phone - for Ljubinko, the
25 driver, to be met by somebody at the entry to Belgrade, since Belgrade had
1 been bombed these days, and to lead Ljubinko through Belgrade streets to
2 the final destination. I also sent a traffic police control consisting of
3 two policemen to escort the truck to Belgrade.
4 Q. And did your driver tell you where in Belgrade -- what was the end
5 destination of the truck in Belgrade?
6 A. When he returned the next day, he told me that a vehicle, a
7 Volkswagen Golf, had met him at the entrance of Belgrade at Bubanj Potok.
8 It was early dawn. He was escorted by that vehicle through Belgrade; and
9 on the way to Novi Sad, he then abandoned the truck. And the truck was
10 taken over by other persons unknown to him, and then Ljubinko drove back
11 to Kladovo. And this is how he related this whole story to me.
12 Q. You said that he had to abandon the truck and it was then taken
13 over by other persons. Did he at some later stage return to pick up the
14 truck from Belgrade?
15 A. The truck was taken back some six or seven days later. Ljubinko
16 left the truck carrying the bodies there and returned, and the truck was
17 then - let me make sure - around 15th of April. I remember that we had an
18 accident at Kosovo and the commander of the Majdanpek police station had
19 been killed in Kosovo, and we needed that truck. And this is why Ljubinko
20 went back to retrieve that truck so it can be used here.
21 Q. Do you know where he retrieved the truck from?
22 A. In accordance with his words, he retrieved it from the parking lot
23 of the Ministry of the Interior. I don't know the specific location. But
24 since the Ministry of the Interior had many different locations around
25 Belgrade, I do not know the specific location. I never took an interest
1 in that particular information. We were called and told that the truck
2 was available. He went over to retrieve it and drove it back, because
3 that truck was owned by the municipal company. I never asked him about
4 the details, where exactly did he retrieve the truck from.
5 Q. Now, that evening after the -- that night after the truck was
6 driven to Belgrade, did you leave Tekija, Tekija border police station?
7 A. After that, after the truck was driven off, I believe I had
8 another contact with General Djordjevic. And since we had no vehicles out
9 on the ground, I asked him to secure a vehicle so that we can use it on
10 the 7th of -- the following day, to use it to transport the rest of the
11 bodies to Belgrade. We remained there at the border-crossing outpost and
12 made arrangements and agreements on what was to be done on the 7th, to
13 carry out the task. We had agreed to find a higher-capacity crane to pull
14 the refrigerator truck from the Danube, to get the vehicle, to arrive on
15 the 7th, to be filled with the rest of the bodies.
16 Everybody from the Kladovo department got their tasks; and around
17 5.00, 6.00 in the morning - I really cannot recall the exact time - I set
18 off with Toma Miladinovic back to Bor. I drove the vehicle, and I believe
19 that I arrived to my office, to my work-place in the Bor SUP at around
20 8.00. And all the other tasks that were supposed to be performed were
21 performed to -- by the Kladovo department employees.
22 So on the 7th, early in the morning, I left Kladovo. I -- there
23 was no need for me to be there, because I had issued tasks about what was
24 to be done on that day.
25 Q. Were the remaining bodies pulled out of the truck that day, on the
2 A. I received information by telephone that on that day they used a
3 higher-capacity crane, which was taken from the plant at Djerdap, to pull
4 the truck out on to the road and that the truck had arrived from Belgrade.
5 In the evening of the 7th, the remainder of the bodies were put into that
6 other refrigerator truck, which then went towards Milanovci and Belgrade.
7 That's the information I was given.
8 Q. Do you know approximately how many bodies were pulled out of the
9 truck the next day?
10 A. According to the information, although the people directly
11 involved would know better, I believe the figure was 81 or 82 corpses.
12 The exact figure should be either in some statements or other evidence
13 obtained from the people directly involved, but I believe the figure was
14 82 or 83 corpses.
15 Q. This figure that you give of 82 or -- 81 or 82 corpses, were those
16 bodies that were pulled out on the 7th, or is this a total figure that
17 you're referring to?
18 A. It is the total number of corpses in the refrigerator truck that
19 had been extracted on the 6th and the 7th. That is the total figure of
20 corpses in the refrigerator truck.
21 Q. Now, what happened to the truck itself, to the refrigerator truck?
22 What did they do with the truck once all the bodies had been pulled out?
23 A. On that day, or rather, the next day, the refrigerator truck, as I
24 was told by the chief of department, was taken to the public utility
25 company at Negotin. It stayed there for a day or two. In my
1 conversations with General Djordjevic, it was stated that the refrigerator
2 truck was to be destroyed. I believe that was its subsequent fate.
3 Q. Who informed you that it had been destroyed?
4 A. Well, whether Sperlic or Toma told me that first, I don't know,
5 but one of the two; or maybe Sperlic had told Toma and then Toma told me,
6 or Toma spoke directly to me. I don't know. In any case, I was informed
7 by the people who had been told to inform me about it, and a lot of time
8 has elapsed. I can't recall who exactly, but one of the two.
9 Q. Do you know how it was destroyed?
10 A. I was told that they attempted to set it on fire, that failed;
11 and then it was destroyed by explosives. It was taken to Petrovo Selo and
12 destroyed there.
13 Q. Now, at the time that this discovery was made of the refrigerator
14 truck and all the bodies inside, was any information given by you or by
15 others at the Kladovo police station to the public, to the general public,
16 as to what was happening?
17 A. As far as I know, no one provided any information. Given the
18 circumstances when all this took place, the arrangement was that that
19 information will not be forwarded to the public, so as not to disturb the
20 public. It wasn't deemed a secret. It couldn't have been, because half
21 of the citizens of Tekija saw the refrigerator truck themselves. But it
22 was something along the lines, Let us not disturb the citizens.
23 And the agreement was that no information was to be given to the
24 press. It was a time of war, and it would have caused disturbance with
25 the citizens; and speculations were already being made and that would be
1 disturbing to the public.
2 Q. You referred to an arrangement or an agreement that no information
3 would be given to the press. Who made this agreement, or among whom was
4 this agreement reached?
5 A. The agreement was first reached between me and General Djordjevic
6 in the sense of not giving away information to the public, rather than it
7 being a secret; and then I ordered the same thing to my subordinates,
8 given the agreement I had reached with General Djordjevic.
9 Q. Do you recall who exactly you conveyed this agreement to, who you
10 spoke about the agreement that you and General Djordjevic had reached?
11 A. It was conveyed to the same people who were present in the office
12 during my first conversation with General Djordjevic. Do you want me to
13 specify who was there or not?
14 Q. No, it's not necessary. So if I understand correctly, your --
15 this agreement between you and General Djordjevic was reached during your
16 first conversation you spoke about earlier, when you were at the Kladovo
17 police station. Is that correct? You have to state your answer
19 A. Yes, yes.
20 Q. Now, you spoke a bit earlier about speculations being made. You
21 said that it would cause disturbance with the citizens and speculations
22 were already being made and that would be disturbing to the public. What
23 exactly were you speaking about when you referred to speculations being
25 A. We were also speculating the first day that it was a traffic
1 accident, that it was a smuggling channel, that we interrupted a human
2 trafficking route, and the public began speculating as well. That's why I
3 said it would be disturbing. Everyone would have his or her own view and
4 comment to make, and all this can lead to a disturbance for the public.
5 That is why we discussed the sealing off of any information channels, so
6 as not to reach the press. It was a time of war. It was not peacetime.
7 Q. Now, you spoke about different persons being involved in
8 retrieving these bodies from the truck. How were these persons paid or
9 who paid these persons?
10 A. The people who were from the Department of the Internal Affairs in
11 Kladovo, six or seven of them, and the operatives of the state security in
12 Kladovo; none of those were paid for it. As for the people from the
13 municipal utility in Kladovo, there may have been five or six. We gave
14 them a per diem for the job done; we paid them, the ministry.
15 Q. And who provided you with the funds to pay these workers?
16 A. I asked Minister Djordjevic in the ministry for the money, and it
17 was received as such. Somebody brought it from Belgrade. He gave it to
18 me, and it was around 10.000 dinars at the time. He told me to distribute
19 that money to the workers of the public utility company against a receipt,
20 and that was how it was done. It was nothing unusual, rather quite
21 regular and in keeping with our regulations. That was the regular chain
22 of communication between the ministry and the secretariats.
23 Q. You said earlier that the local prosecutor and judge considered
24 that this -- this matter fell within the competence of the district
25 prosecutor and judge from Negotin. Did they come to the scene while all
1 these events were unfolding?
2 A. No, nobody came. And the local prosecutor and judge did not
3 re-appear. They were there the first day, and they stated that the
4 district prosecutor is competent. They were informed by both them and us,
5 but no one arrived. There was no contact. Nobody tried to reach me.
6 Q. And do you know why the public prosecutor or the judge from --
7 investigating judge from Negotin didn't come to the scene?
8 A. I don't know. I don't know.
9 Q. Were any efforts made to try to contact them regarding -- to
10 inform them what was going on?
11 A. They were informed about the event by the municipal prosecutor and
12 court in Kladovo and by the duty officer of the Department of Internal
13 Affairs in Kladovo. That is the way of providing information on events.
14 As for the rest of their contacts, I mean the municipal prosecutor and the
15 district prosecutor, as well as the two judges respectively, I believe
16 they had direct contact afterwards. It would strike me as something
17 usual; however, nobody contacted me.
18 Q. Do you know if the -- if an investigation was ever opened by
19 Negotin authorities into this matter, by judicial authorities in Negotin
20 into this matter?
21 A. I said that I was retired in 2001. I believe I learned from the
22 press that an investigation was undertaken, that some work had been done
23 by the district court in Negotin. I also know that the Department of the
24 Special War Crimes Chamber in Belgrade is working on it right now, the war
25 crimes court. As for Negotin, I believe I learned that from the press.
1 But nobody called me about it and I don't know much more about it at all.
2 Q. Okay. Thank you. Did you at some point become aware of a story
3 that was published on this incident in a publication called the Timocka
4 Krimi Revija?
5 A. After the event, whether it was in 2000 or so, in any case, I
6 found out that there was an article published in that review about the
7 event; and at that moment, apart from that piece of information, I had no
8 other. After a while, articles re-appeared in the review and elsewhere,
9 and an interview was published with a diver who participated in the
10 extraction of the truck from the Danube. Later on, in 2001, one could
11 find it in other media in Serbia as well. This is what I learned from the
13 Q. Did you have any contact with General Djordjevic after the
14 publication of this first article on this incident?
15 A. Yes. I called him, and I told him that it had been published. It
16 was a rather unpleasant thing for both me and him. I don't know whether
17 he conveyed that further. In any case, I informed him. I told him it had
18 been published in Zajecar.
19 Q. Did he give you any instructions on how you were to proceed after
20 this information had gone public?
21 A. No. He didn't mention any instructions. It was a conversation.
22 I told him it wasn't the best thing for it to have surfaced, and that's
23 it. We spoke on the phone. He didn't tell me what to do about it, and I
24 didn't discuss with him whether I intended to do anything. We didn't
25 touch upon that topic at all. We simply discussed this event and the
1 unfortunate circumstances under which it had been published.
2 Q. Did you have any contact with the other persons who had been
3 present at the Kladovo police station on the 6th and 7th of April, for
4 example, Mr. Miladinovic or Mr. Sperlic?
5 A. It is possible that I had had contact with them, too. Miladinovic
6 was there on a daily basis, and our offices were close by. It is possible
7 that we talked about it. I didn't pay much heed to it, and I certainly
8 didn't record it in any way as to the time or place. I may have discussed
9 it with Miladinovic. I don't know about Sperlic because he was a bit
10 further away, but Milutinovic --
11 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: Miladinovic --
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] was there close.
13 MS. KRAVETZ:
14 Q. Now, in 2001, did you become aware of the creation of a Working
15 Group in the MUP that was formed and tasked to investigate this incident
16 of the refrigerator truck?
17 A. I learned about it because they came to interview me. I knew that
18 the new minister established the Working Group, tasked with investigating
19 the incident. They came and talked to me. I don't know at exactly what
20 time. It may have been May or June; in any case, around that time.
21 Q. Did you recount the same events that you have described here today
22 to this Working Group when they came to interview you?
23 A. It was a rather informal interview, for the lack of a better word.
24 It wasn't only about the incident, but about other things. As for the
25 incident itself, we spoke about it in general, and they asked me who there
1 was and so on and so forth. After that interview, they put together an
2 official note containing the contents of that conversation. Perhaps it
3 wasn't as precise and in as much detail as we are discussing now.
4 Q. Now, since these events took place in April 1999, did you receive
5 any additional information as to where the bodies that were transported to
6 Belgrade, where they ended up. What was their final destination?
7 A. Since I retired in the meantime, I could only access information
8 from the press; and from the press, I learned that the bodies were taken
9 to Batajnica. I never had any conversations with anyone about that,
11 Q. Thank you.
12 MS. KRAVETZ: Your Honour, I have no additional questions for this
13 witness at this stage.
14 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Ms. Kravetz.
15 Mr. O'Sullivan.
16 MR. O'SULLIVAN: Your Honour, the order will be: General Lukic,
17 General Pavkovic, General Lazarevic, General Ojdanic, Mr. Sainovic, and
18 Mr. Milutinovic.
19 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Mr. Lukic.
20 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
21 Cross-examination by Mr. Lukic:
22 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. Golubovic. My name is Branko
23 Lukic, and I appear on behalf of General Lukic before this Tribunal. I
24 would kindly ask you to assist us in trying to clarify a few issues which
25 may appear unnecessary to you, since it was a part of your job. However,
1 we have to establish things in much more detail than can initially appear.
2 Today at page 52, line 16, when answering one of Ms. Kravetz's
3 questions, you said that you did not receive any orders from General
4 Djordjevic, but rather instructions. Regarding that, I would like to ask
5 you the following. Is it correct that the police does not function
6 pursuant to orders, but rather pursuant to the law?
7 A. Yes. We abide by the law.
8 Q. Thank you. Today you were asked whether you were familiar with
9 this fact that a Working Group was established, tasked with investigating
10 the issue of the corpses found in the refrigerator truck in the Danube.
11 Do you agree that the directorate of crime police is the one which should
12 take action following information such as this? Would that be the proper
13 body to address it?
14 A. In ordinary circumstances, yes.
15 Q. In the regulation under establishment of the MUP states that this
16 administration is duty-bound to carry out investigations and all pertained
17 actions concerning such grave offences. Is that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. We need to pause between question and answer, since we speak the
20 same language. I wasn't waiting because I was unhappy with the answer.
21 We heard that the Working Group interviewed you. The Working
22 Group was headed by the police Captain Dragan Karleusa. Is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Am I correct if I say that at that time you knew that the police
25 Captain Dragan Karleusa was deputy chief of the Directorate of Criminal
1 Police at the MUP headquarters in Belgrade?
2 A. He told me that himself when he came. Up until that moment, I
3 wasn't familiar with that.
4 Q. Thank you. We need to try and clear up a thing or two concerning
5 police ranks, and it is connected to Captain Karleusa's rank and his
6 functional position of the deputy head of crime police. Do you agree that
7 this the MUP hierarchy before the introduction of rank, the function
8 performed by an official held primacy before any ranks are introduced?
9 A. The appointment by -- or within the formational structure took
11 Q. Do you agree that in the hierarchy of the MUP, after the
12 introduction of rank, the working post held primacy? That is, the type of
13 work carried out by an official.
14 A. I suppose so.
15 Q. Therefore, before and after ranks were introduced into the police
16 hierarchy, the function or the post occupied by the given official held
17 primacy over anything else. Isn't that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you know of any cases in the MUP headquarters and out in the
20 field that someone of a lower rank was superior to someone who was senior
21 in rank?
22 A. It may have been, but I have no such experience. I had contacts
23 with people, but no one who was my subordinate couldn't issue orders to
25 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: Could issue orders to
2 Could the counsel please repeat the question.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I remember that Branko was the chief
4 of SUP. I don't know any other details.
5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
6 Q. I will have to repeat the question?
7 JUDGE BONOMY: It may be unnecessary, but if you think it's
8 necessary please repeat it.
9 MR. LUKIC: [Microphone not activated]
10 Q. [Interpretation] Do you remember that Mr. Vlajko Stojiljkovic
11 appointed Branko Djuric as the head of the SUP in Belgrade, and he held
12 the rank of major?
13 A. I know that he was appointed and that he was the SUP Belgrade
14 chief. As for any other personal data in terms of years of service, et
15 cetera, I don't know about that.
16 Q. Do you remember that at that moment, holding the rank of major, he
17 was General Sreten Lukic's superior?
18 A. Well, if he was head of the Belgrade secretariat and if General
19 Lukic was part of the secretariat of Belgrade, then he was his superior.
20 Q. Thank you. I have just one thing to discuss with you. In your
21 statement - and for easier reference that would be page 5, paragraph 3 of
22 the English version; and page 5, paragraph 3 in the B/C/S version as
23 well - you said that you heard and saw testimony of Bosko Radojkovic
24 before this Tribunal. And you say that he was mistaken in his evidence to
25 the Court, in that you ordered him not to take any photographs concerning
1 the refrigerator truck. You said, "I didn't issue him that instruction or
2 order to him nor anyone else. I had never spoken to Radojkovic on the
3 scene." Is it true that you did not say to Radojkovic not to take any
5 A. There are two sub-questions within your question. The first
6 sub-question concerns the fact that Radojkovic, while testifying, that he
7 had already taken photographs, and there would be no point in me to
8 prohibiting him from taking photographs because I arrived on the 6th in
9 the evening, and Radojkovic took those photographs on the 6th in the
10 morning. That order may have any sense from that point onwards, when I
11 instructed people not to make the events public to -- known to the public.
12 I knew Radojkovic and I saw him after Sperlic had ordered him to
13 come into the same office and told him to provide the sheets, blankets, et
14 cetera for the transportation of the bodies. It is possible, since we
15 were all at the Tekija office and people were coming and going, that
16 Radojkovic may have entered on several occasions and reported on the
17 progress made. That's quite possible, but I really cannot remember.
18 I did not focus on Radojkovic and my transactions with him. But
19 on that night in Kladovo, I saw him for five minutes when he entered the
20 office, together with Chief Sperlic, and when Chief Sperlic issued
21 instructions to him what to do. And it is possible that he may have
22 entered the office at Tekija and briefed on the progress of the works, but
23 I really do not recall him particularly because this atmosphere was
25 Q. Thank you.
1 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have no further questions for this
3 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, that takes us neatly to our lunchtime break,
4 Mr. Golubovic. We'll be breaking now for one hour. If you would please
5 leave the courtroom with the usher, he will take you where you can wait
6 meanwhile, and we will see you in one hour's time.
7 MR. VISNJIC: Your Honour, I think -- we don't have more questions
8 for this witness, so he can be released.
9 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, there may be -- is there re-examination?
10 MS. KRAVETZ: No, Your Honour, I have no further questions.
11 [Trial Chamber confers]
12 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, it's even better than that, Mr. Golubovic.
13 We do not require you to come back. That completes your evidence. Thank
14 you for coming to the Tribunal to give it. You are now free to leave the
15 courtroom. Thank you.
16 [The witness withdrew]
17 JUDGE BONOMY: And we shall resume at 1.45.
18 --- Luncheon recess taken at 12.46 p.m.
19 --- On resuming at 1.48 p.m.
20 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Hannis.
21 MR. HANNIS: Thank you, Your Honour. I wanted to bring to your
22 attention as early as possible my concern that, Your Honour, we are not
23 going to have enough witnesses to fill up all the hours this week. I
24 anticipate we'll probably finish with the upcoming witness this session.
25 Tomorrow, we have no witnesses scheduled then. We do have Mr. Kryeziu,
1 who was scheduled for Thursday. He's arriving I think late tonight and,
2 there's a chance we could put him on tomorrow, but he's a 92 ter witness.
3 His total time would probably be two hours, even if there's full
4 cross-examination. Wednesday, we have two videolinks scheduled in
5 Pristina. And Friday, depending on the Court's ruling, we may have Mr.
6 Loncar for a videolink.
7 The only other possibility I have, Your Honours, if somehow we
8 manage to get Mr. Markovic here this week, but I don't know what the
9 chances of that are.
10 JUDGE BONOMY: You also have -- did you also not have someone else
11 proposed for this week?
12 MR. HANNIS: I don't believe so, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Your motion to amend the 65 ter list indicated that
14 your witness Sterenberg was to be scheduled for the last week of November.
15 MR. HANNIS: Your Honour, I know there was an objection about him
16 and I don't recall, but we've now scheduled him for I think the 11th of
17 December, because -- and I don't recall if he was availability or it was
18 in connection with a Defence objection about his testimony. We found
19 ourselves in the situation of having to reschedule him.
20 JUDGE BONOMY: The disappointment for us, Mr. Hannis, is that the
21 one reason I think you've been able to advance for getting into this
22 pickle is the extended evidence of one witness, which caused the
23 postponement of the evidence of another I think, who was scheduled for two
25 MR. HANNIS: Yes. General DZ got pushed off, because Mr. Tanic
1 and others took longer than expected. And he could not return until later
2 in the month. The other thing, Your Honour, if you want to hear. Earlier
3 in the month, there was some question about whether or not we were going
4 to have extended days later in the month, and Mr. Ackerman filed a
5 pleading which at the time you indicated was premature because there had
6 not been any Scheduling Order. When the Scheduling Order came out on the
7 15th, we found ourselves in the position of not being able to advance
8 anybody. Most of the people were not available between now and the
9 holidays and had been pushed over into the new year.
10 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, you really are going to have to start working
11 overtime in getting people to attend to fill the remaining three weeks --
12 or is it two weeks? Two weeks I think apart from this week.
13 MR. HANNIS: I think we're in good shape for those last two weeks
14 before Christmas, Your Honour. We have very substantive witnesses for
15 whom I'm sure there will be extensive cross-examination.
16 JUDGE BONOMY: One thing we could do, of course, is alter next
17 week's schedule to give you more time.
18 MR. HANNIS: That's a possibility, Your Honour. Next week we have
19 General DZ, who I expect will go into a third day. We have another
20 insider from the MUP. I know -- I think Mr. Ackerman made a request that
21 we not have any witness who touched too directly on his client, because of
22 Mr. Ackerman's obligations in connection with an appellate proceeding late
23 next week. And the last week we've got Mr. Sterenberg, K79, Lord Ashdown,
24 and General Naumann. Let's see how far we get today and we will then
25 decide what we're doing for the rest of the week, and see if we can make
1 that arrangement today.
2 MR. HANNIS: Thank you.
3 JUDGE BONOMY: I have one other matter I would like to raise. The
4 Prosecution have applied for trial related protective measures for a
5 witness K64. That witness is said to be scheduled for next week. Is
6 there any possibility that Defence could make a very expedited response to
7 this by, say, Wednesday, especially if you are twiddling your thumbs
8 tomorrow. Very well, response for K64 by Wednesday.
9 The next witness, Ms. Kravetz.
10 MS. KRAVETZ: Your Honours, the next witness is Bosko Radojkovic,
11 and his evidence relates to paragraphs 75(d) and (h) and 77 of the
12 indictment. And he will be testifying as a live witness.
13 [The witness entered court]
14 JUDGE BONOMY: Good afternoon, Mr. Radojkovic. Would you please
15 make the solemn declaration to speak the truth by reading aloud the
16 document now before you.
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak
18 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
19 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Please be seated.
20 Ms. Kravetz.
21 MS. KRAVETZ: Thank you, Your Honour.
22 WITNESS: BOSKO RADOJKOVIC
23 [Witness answered through interpreter]
24 Examination by Ms. Kravetz:
25 Q. Good afternoon, please. Could you please state your full name for
1 the record.
2 A. My name is Bosko Radojkovic.
3 Q. Where and when were you born, Mr. Radojkovic?
4 A. I was born on the 5th of February, 1956, in Rudnik, the
5 municipality of Gornji Milanovac.
6 Q. What is your occupation?
7 A. Currently, I am a retiree.
8 Q. And before going into requirement, how were you employed?
9 A. I used to be a crime policeman.
10 Q. Where were you working prior to retirement as a crime policeman?
11 A. I worked with the Department of the Internal Affairs in Kladovo.
12 Q. In 1999, is this where you were employed, in the police station in
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Could you briefly describe what were your duties there as a crime
17 A. I worked at the Department of Crime Police, and I was involved
18 with forensics.
19 Q. And which duties did you carry out as a crime policeman involved
20 in forensics there?
21 A. All duties and tasks which fall under the framework of forensics.
22 Q. Thank you. In the course of your duties in early 1999, in April
23 1999, were you called to the scene in the Danube river near the village of
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Why were you called to that location?
2 A. To carry out an examination following a report of a fisherman on
3 the Danube, whereby he stated that there was a large crate in the water
4 which resembled the back of a truck.
5 Q. Do you recall the date when you attended the scene there at the
6 Danube river?
7 A. I believe it was the 4th of April, around 1.00 or 2.00 p.m.
8 Q. Do you recall what you saw there when you arrived to the scene?
9 A. Some 30 metres away from the tank, I saw something sticking out,
10 and it resembled the back of a truck. It was white in colour, and one
11 could only see its rear upper part.
12 Q. Who else was present there, apart from you, at that location on
13 that day?
14 A. Apart from me, Zivojin Djordjevic, a.k.a. Zika, was there. He is
15 a diver. He lives in Kladovo, and I asked him to come along together with
16 his gear so we could check what it was all about. I believe his first
17 name is Zivojin.
18 Q. Did you and Mr. Djordjevic investigate in any way what was in the
20 A. I did not; however, he went down; and upon return he said it was a
21 truck, that there were no bodies in the passenger booth, that there is no
22 driver or passenger, and that on the accelerator pedal a larger stone is
24 Q. What did you proceed to do once that you were able to identify
25 this object as being a truck in the water?
1 A. We called in a crane from the hydro-electric dam at Djerdap to try
2 and pull it out and investigate. It was rather deep, and it was getting
3 dark; plus the diver had no underwater light, so he couldn't clearly make
4 out what type of truck it was. Therefore, it was left for the next day.
5 Q. So were you successful in pulling the truck out of the water with
6 this crane?
7 A. Only partially on that first occasion, and then we had to employ a
8 larger-capacity crane, which we also borrowed from the dam facility.
9 Q. Before you left the scene that evening, did you do anything to
10 secure the truck so it wouldn't float down or be taken away by the current
11 of the river?
12 A. I believe we placed a bucket or a buoy. I think he tied it to the
13 truck using a rope so that we could identify it the next day, and we may
14 have borrowed a cable from a fisherman nearby to tie the truck to a tree
15 on the bank. I'm not sure about the cable, whether that took place that
16 night; but in any case, we marked the place where the truck was, so as to
17 be able to find it should the water take it away.
18 Q. Where did you go once you left this location where the truck had
19 been found?
20 A. I went to the police station. Zika went home, and we awaited
21 daylight. The next day at the police station in Kladovo, preparations
22 were underway to use a crane so that we could start pulling out the truck
23 early in the morning.
24 Q. When you went that evening to the police station, did you report
25 to your superior on your discovery of that afternoon?
1 A. Well, no, because we haven't discovered much. We found a truck in
2 the water and that was it. Therefore, I wasn't sure whether that evening
3 -- yes, yes. A dispatch was sent by a colleague that a citizen reported
4 that case in Tekija, that a team was dispatched, but nothing has been
5 established and that the work is still ongoing.
6 Q. You said that a dispatch was sent by a colleague. Where was this
7 dispatch sent, or to whom was this dispatch sent?
8 A. He sent it to the duty officer of the secretariat in Bor, to the
9 duty office.
10 Q. The following day did you return to the scene where the truck had
11 been found?
12 A. Yes. Early in the morning, we returned.
13 Q. When you say "we returned," was this you again and the diver, or
14 were there other persons also present there?
15 A. I was there as well as the same diver. There were some people
16 from the hydro-electric plant, the people who were manning the crane and
17 some workers. All in all, some 15 of them.
18 Q. Were you able to lift the vehicle out of the water?
19 A. We were, around noon or 1.00 or 2.00 in the afternoon, but only
20 partially. We managed to extract the freight box. We managed to bring it
21 to the shore.
22 Q. Did you take any photographs while that was taking place, while
23 the truck was being pulled out of the water?
24 A. I did.
25 Q. Do you recall approximately how many photographs you took on that
2 A. Around ten or so.
3 MS. KRAVETZ: Could the witness please be shown P594. Thank you.
4 Q. Do you recognise this photograph, Mr. Radojkovic?
5 A. Yes, yes.
6 Q. Could you tell us what is depicted on the photograph.
7 A. This photograph was taken while we were trying to extract the
8 refrigerator truck. You can see the freight box; its rear turned towards
9 the shore. What you can see on the side, the black line which comprises a
10 triangle with the upper-most part of the freight box. This is actually
11 the water marking. That's how the -- how deep the truck was, and this is
12 the part seen by the fisherman.
13 Q. Now, when you pulled the truck further out of the water, were you
14 able to observe any type of inscription on the truck?
15 A. Yes. On the door, there was a company name. There was a company
16 name on both doors.
17 Q. Could you explain what exactly was written on the doors of the
19 A. Well, I can try and recollect correctly. It believe it said, Pik
20 Progres Transportation and Slaughter-house Prizren, and there was a fax
21 and telephone number.
22 MS. KRAVETZ: Could the witness please be shown P598.
23 Q. Do you recognise this photograph, Mr. Radojkovic?
24 A. Yes. This is when we managed to pull the truck out for the most
25 part, and there you can see the inscription on the door.
1 Q. Thank you. Were you able to see whether the truck had any licence
3 A. There were no licence plates.
4 Q. And what, if anything, did you notice about the back door of the
6 A. Yes. The back door of the freight box in its right-hand, lower
7 corner had been broken, or rather, the freight box seemed to have been
8 broken in to, in the lower right-hand corner.
9 Q. You say that the freight box seemed to have been broken in to.
10 Were you able to see what was inside the truck?
11 A. I didn't see anything at that moment because the doors were
12 locked, and the opening was of such size that I couldn't see through. I
13 couldn't see what was inside.
14 Q. Was anything externally visible protruding from the opening that
15 you spoke about in the back door of the truck?
16 A. Yes. You could see two legs and one arm, as well as parts of
18 MS. KRAVETZ: Could the witness be shown P596. Thank you.
19 Q. Mr. Radojkovic, you said that you could see two legs and one arm.
20 This photograph is in black and white, but could you indicate if it's
21 visible on this photograph what you could observe from where you were,
22 your position, at the time you took this photograph.
23 A. One can see that the photograph was not the best one that could
24 have been taken; however, you could see a leg protruding. The rest is too
25 dark because of the shade, and I don't think the photograph is of best
1 quality. However, you could see another leg and one arm, but protruding
2 less than the leg you can see?
3 Q. Mr. Radojkovic, there is a pen on the side of your screen where
4 the photograph is being projected. Could you mark where you can see the
5 leg protruding from the side of the truck. If you could just draw a
6 circle, just ...
7 A. These are the toes, the large toe, the foot, and then up the leg.
8 Q. Thank you.
9 MS. KRAVETZ: I don't know if this exhibit requires -- needs to be
10 assigned an IC number. It's just -- could we assign an IC number, please.
11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, this will be Exhibit IC113.
12 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
13 MS. KRAVETZ:
14 Q. Mr. Radojkovic, were you eventually able to open the back doors of
15 the truck that we see there on the photograph?
16 A. Yes. The doors were opened later.
17 Q. And what did you find was inside the truck once you opened the
19 A. What I found was a number of corpses piled up all over the freight
20 box. Most of them were in the front part, because when we were extracting
21 the truck it was slanted. It was at an angle. Therefore, most of the
22 corpses were closer to the passenger booth.
23 Q. Who was present with you there at the time when you opened the
24 back doors of the truck?
25 A. Apart from the workers of the power-plant who were working on the
1 extraction of the truck, there was Momcilo Sujiranovic, who is a crime
2 scene technician; then Milan Stevanovic, who was chief of the crime
3 prevention squad in Kladovo; then the deputy municipal prosecutor; as well
4 as an investigative judge of the district court in Kladovo; and someone
5 from the medical centre in Kladovo, a coroner.
6 Q. Were all these people able to observe what was in the truck when
7 you opened it?
8 A. Once I opened the truck, not all of them could see inside. But
9 later, those who were supposed to see it did; however, some people refused
10 to take a look.
11 Q. Did you inform the local judge and prosecutor who were there about
12 what was inside the truck?
13 A. I informed the investigative judge, because he came to the scene;
14 and from that moment on, he was in charge of the on-site investigation. I
15 told him there were corpses inside, and I can quote his words. He asked,
16 "How many?" And I said, "I don't know. Many. Do you want to take a
17 look?" And he said, "No. It is not within my competences. You should
18 notify the district court in Negotin." Therefore, he did not look inside,
19 and I don't think the prosecutor did either.
20 Q. Did you remain at the scene after this event occurred, that you
21 opened the back of the truck, or did you return to the Kladovo police
23 A. Yes. I returned to the police station. We all did, except for
24 the policemen who were left behind to secure the spot.
25 Q. And once you arrived at the police station, did you inform your
1 superior of the events that had taken place that afternoon?
2 A. We wrote a report, or rather, a dispatch sent to the SUP in Bor,
3 to the duty office. And it was drafted by me and Milan Stevanovic, who
4 was the chief of service.
5 Q. Who was at the time the head of the police station there in
7 A. The chief in Kladovo was Vukasin Sperlic, and he was informed. He
8 received regular information, and we told him what it was all about.
9 Q. What was the reaction of Mr. Sperlic and the other persons there
10 when you told them about your discovery?
11 A. By that time it was already afternoon or it was getting dark. The
12 first reaction was surprise and then what to do. What I need to stress is
13 that we did pull out the truck, however insufficiently for us to be able
14 to carry out any work. That spot is close to the power-station, and the
15 water level changes during the night. It can vary as much as one metre;
16 and when it goes up, our truck was back in the water again.
17 Therefore, we knew that the next day we would have to pull it out
18 further again. Since we managed to see what was written on the door and
19 what was inside, we tried to prevent any leaks of information,
20 particularly since it was close to the Romanian border. There were ships
21 about 1.000 metres away from the spot, since this all took place during
22 the bombings and the aggression against Yugoslavia.
23 Q. You said you tried to prevent any leaks of information. Exactly
24 can you explain what steps you took to prevent any leaks of information.
25 A. We met in the evening in the office and discussed what was to be
1 done. An idea was that we could say that some Kurds were in the truck.
2 By that time, the workers present and some others were able to see the
3 legs protruding, and we wanted to present that as the bodies of some
4 Kurds, who some 20 days ago had been caught trying to cross illegally from
5 Romania. We simply wanted to say these people were Kurds.
6 Q. When you say "we wanted to say," who are you referring to? Who
7 was present at this meeting when this was discussed?
8 A. I was there, then Sperlic was, as well as Milan Stevanovic, maybe
9 Sujiranovic, the local policemen. There weren't too many, though. As to
10 who suggested what, I can't recall.
11 Q. And what exactly was decided that evening about what would be done
12 with respect to the truck?
13 A. It was decided that the sign specifying the number -- the name of
14 the company to be painted over with the same colour paint and to mount Bor
15 licence plates on the truck. We were planning to put on registration
16 plates from Bor and to cover the Pik Progres sign, indicating that it was
17 a company from Prizren.
18 Q. Did you return to the scene where the truck was located that
19 evening after this meeting took place?
20 A. I did. I returned and I did as described.
21 Q. When you say you "did as described," what exactly did you do once
22 you were back at the scene where the truck was?
23 A. I used a green car paint spray. I thought it would match the
24 colour of the booth. I brought two cans along, and I covered the signs on
25 the doors. I also mounted two slightly damaged licence plates for
1 vehicles from Bor on the front and the back of the truck.
2 MS. KRAVETZ: Could the witness be shown Exhibit P600. Could we
3 zoom in on that photograph.
4 Q. Mr. Radojkovic, is this one of the photographs that you took?
5 A. No. I took a negative.
6 Q. What do you mean you took a negative?
7 A. I took the photograph, however that was recorded in the negative.
8 And the photograph was developed later in Belgrade by someone at the MUP.
9 I never developed the photographs pertaining to this case.
10 Q. I understand. Was this photograph taken the next day after you
11 had spray-painted the door of the truck?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And the you said the colour of the cabin was green. Is that
15 A. It was a shade of green.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 MS. KRAVETZ: Could the witness be shown Exhibit P603.
18 Q. You said that you had also put licence plates to the truck. Can
19 we see them here in the photograph?
20 A. I don't think you can see them because they were quite damaged and
21 there is mud on them; therefore, I really can't make them out. Perhaps on
22 another photograph I could. Just a moment.
23 Q. It is okay if you can't see. Okay.
24 A. I don't think one can see them here. They were placed in such a
25 way that could be seen only by someone who would approach the truck, who
1 would come close.
2 Q. And you said the licence plates were covered in mud. Why was that
3 that they had mud?
4 A. Because the workers from the electric plant who were there on the
5 first day must have noticed that there were no licence plates; therefore,
6 had we put new, clean licence plates, it would have been clear that
7 someone placed them during the night. But if you put a damaged plate
8 which had been scratched and mud placed over, then someone would probably
9 think that they must have been there the day before except that they
10 weren't noticeable.
11 Q. Who placed the mud on the licence plates?
12 A. I did.
13 Q. Now, we see here that the hole which was visible in the previous
14 photograph that you saw has been covered. Is this also something you did
15 that night? It has been patched it appears on the photograph.
16 A. Yes. I think I did it back when the truck was first recovered and
17 when the legs and arms started protruding. Somebody brought me some tin,
18 screws, and a screwdriver, and I put it all back. I don't think I did
19 that alone. I think I had some help, and I fixed it with bolts so as to
20 avoid this crack re-appearing. The crack was a bit complicated. You
21 could fix the bottom part but not the upper part of the crack, so I had to
22 put some tin there. I'm sure this is tin.
23 Q. Now, was a larger crane brought the next day to try to pull the
24 truck out of the water?
25 A. Yes. In order to recover the truck and pull it out completely, to
1 avoid more problems with water, we brought a larger crane. And only the
2 larger crane managed to pull out the truck all the way on to the bank. So
3 there was no longer any danger of having the front part submerged again.
4 Q. You indicated earlier that you had sent a dispatch to the Bor SUP
5 about the truck. Did -- at any time during that day, did the district
6 police or the staff from the Bor SUP come to Kladovo?
7 A. I'm really not sure -- in fact, I'm convinced that they came the
8 next day when we had already sent the dispatch describing what we had
9 found, and the next day the large crane arrived. We ran into some
10 problems; and then I left the scene, went to Tekija village, and called up
11 the chief, Toma Miladinovic, to ask him if they were aware at all of what
12 was going on in Kladovo. I know that it was around 2.00, maybe 3.00 when
13 I called him.
14 Q. On which date did this occur, do you recall?
15 A. I think it was the 6th.
16 Q. When you say that --
17 A. Maybe the 7th. No. I called him on the 7th, April.
18 Q. And when you say that you ran into some problems, what exactly are
19 you referring to?
20 A. Well, some people did not show up. I realised that it was not a
21 local problem, that we in the police department in Kladovo were not able
22 to deal with it, that the police from Bor had to come. I don't know
23 whether they had read our dispatch. I called the chief in Bor to ask him
24 if he had read the dispatch, that he should go and get it and read it.
25 I couldn't talk much because I was calling from a house, and there
1 were other people who could overhear me. But then another chief came from
2 the police station who said that we should suspend everything, seal
3 everything, and wait till the chief comes from Bor with his associates.
4 Q. When you say some people did not show up, are you referring to
5 your colleagues from the Kladovo police station, or who are you referring
6 to exactly?
7 A. Yes, right. That's precisely what I meant. They did not show up,
8 some of my colleagues. And they sent a suggestion that we should -- as to
9 how we should deal with it, a very simple suggestion that could not solve
10 the problem. So that is another reason why I decided to call Bor and draw
11 their attention, because I knew that it was a job that could not be dealt
12 with, not even at the level of the regional SUP of Bor.
13 Q. When you say that your colleagues from the Kladovo police station
14 sent a suggestion, what are you referring to? What exactly did they
15 suggest that you should do?
16 A. Well, they sent a truck full of coffins, which I must say really
17 got to me. It was really upsetting. What was I supposed to do with those
18 coffins? Where were we supposed to carry them? But our entire region
19 could not raise as many coffins as they had inside that truck, and I saw
20 that there was something really wrong at our level, and that's why I
21 called the chief of the criminal investigations.
22 JUDGE BONOMY: When you say that some people had not turned up,
23 are you confining that to your colleagues, or are you thinking also of
24 others who did not turn up?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I mean the chief of the police in
1 Kladovo, maybe even the chief of criminal investigations who did not show
2 up, but they sent coffins instead, as if they could be of some use. Of
3 course not. You can't place that number of corpses into seven or eight
4 coffins. What was I supposed to do with them?
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Can you clarify also at this stage the date when
6 you first went with the diver to examine the lorry.
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] 4th April.
8 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Kravetz.
9 MS. KRAVETZ: Thank you, Your Honour.
10 Q. Mr. Radojkovic, after making these phone calls that you spoke
11 about, did you return to the scene, or did you head somewhere else that
13 A. I returned to the scene, and then a policeman came from Kladovo
14 and told me that the chief was sending me the message to suspend all
15 activities related to the refrigerator truck, to leave a security detail
16 on the scene, and that I should report to him in Kladovo, and that was
18 Q. When you arrived to the Kladovo police station, who else was
19 present there, do you recall?
20 A. There was the chief of local police, Milo Stevanovic, maybe some
21 other colleagues, but we were told that we had to wait for the chief of
22 the SUP of Bor, Caslav Golubovic, that he was also coming with his
23 associates and that together we'll see what we were going to do.
24 Q. Did the chief of the SUP of Bor eventually arrive that evening?
25 A. Yes. He did, with his colleagues.
1 Q. And are you aware of whether there was a meeting between those
2 persons present and the chief of the Bor SUP to discuss the situation
3 about the refrigerator truck?
4 A. Yes. There was a meeting.
5 Your Honour, if you allow me, I would need a short break. Just
6 five minutes.
7 JUDGE BONOMY: You can go with the usher briefly, and we shall
8 wait until you return. Thank you. I take it this is a break for comfort?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Right.
10 [The witness stands down]
11 [Trial Chamber confers]
12 [The witness takes the stand]
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Kravetz.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm sorry about this.
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Not at all.
16 MS. KRAVETZ: Thank you, Your Honour.
17 Q. Mr. Radojkovic, we were speaking about a meeting that was held at
18 the Kladovo SUP. Do you know what was discussed during that meeting?
19 A. At that meeting I did not attend from the very beginning. I was
20 first at my office, and then I was called in by the chief. So I joined
21 them, but it was only after an hour that the chief had arrived with his
22 associates from Bor. So I don't know what they discussed previously prior
23 to my appearance.
24 Q. Were you given instructions on how to proceed regarding the
25 refrigerator truck?
1 A. Yes. Later, when I was invited to join the meeting, I reported to
2 the chief of Bor SUP, Mr. Golubovic, about the situation on the ground, on
3 the site. And he told me that we should organise ourselves and take the
4 bodies out of the truck overnight.
5 Q. Did you then return to the scene that evening or night to carry
6 out these instructions?
7 A. Yes. Around 10.00, 11.00, we went to the scene again.
8 Q. Could you explain how you proceeded to remove the bodies from the
10 A. I don't understand the question. What was the organisation like?
11 How we used the men? What?
12 Q. What did you do when you returned to the scene?
13 A. First, we did some preparatory work. We secured the necessary
14 personnel and the funding. I went into the freight box of the
15 refrigerator truck together with a colleague. We pulled out the bodies
16 one by one and laid them down on the sand. Another colleague was there to
17 take the bodies from our hands. We wrapped them in sheets. Other people
18 came, took the bodies to the truck and loaded them, and that's how it was
20 Q. How many bodies did you remove from the truck that night?
21 A. Thirty.
22 Q. Where were the bodies put once you removed them from the
23 refrigerator truck?
24 A. They were loaded on to a truck.
25 Q. And where were they taken after they were loaded on to this truck,
1 do you know?
2 A. All I know is that the truck left in the direction of Donji
4 Q. Do you know who was driving the truck that night, the truck on
5 which the bodies were loaded?
6 A. I think there was a driver from Bor, a policeman, a driver from
7 Bor. He took the bodies away.
8 Q. Now, while you were carrying out this task of unloading the bodies
9 from the refrigerator truck, you said that this happened at night, but did
10 you have any type of lighting to see what -- while you were performing
11 this task?
12 A. We only had flash-lights.
13 Q. Were you able to observe from the bodies that you personally
14 handled whether these were bodies of men or whether there were also women
15 or children in the truck?
16 A. Yes. You could see there were women, men, and two children.
17 Q. Were you able to observe whether any of the bodies were dressed in
18 any type of uniform?
19 A. No. Nobody was dressed in any sort of uniform.
20 Q. Based on your experience as a crime policeman, were you able to
21 calculate for how long these bodies had been dead?
22 A. I don't know how valuable my judgement is, but I thought the
23 bodies were not older than three or maybe four days max, if you rule out
24 the possibility that the refrigerator truck was turned on to keep a low
25 temperature. If it hadn't been turned on, then the bodies -- the people
1 had met their death three or four days previously, taking into account
2 also the temperature of the water.
3 Q. Were you able to observe any type of injuries on the bodies that
4 you handled?
5 A. They were mostly dressed, but you could still see some injuries.
6 Q. What type of injuries were you able to observe on these bodies?
7 A. Well, mainly from the impact of a blunt object, but also blades.
8 In the case of blades, they were large blades, and the blunt objects used
9 also had to be large.
10 Q. Did you observe whether any of these bodies had gun-shot wounds?
11 A. Yes. Only on one male body. There was a visible entry and exit
12 wound in the chest because he had -- his chest was bare. He was only
13 wearing jeans, and you could see an entry and exit wound.
14 Q. Did you notice anything about the hands of this body, this male
15 body that you just described?
16 A. His hands were tied with wire.
17 Q. Now, after you finished unloading these 30 bodies, did you stop
18 for the night?
19 A. Yes, we did.
20 Q. Were there still other bodies left in the truck when you stopped
21 that evening, that night?
22 A. Yes, there were.
23 Q. So did you return the next day to continue this task of unloading
24 the bodies?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. At approximately what time the next day did you return to continue
2 your task?
3 A. That was before noon, in daylight. In daylight, and the traffic
4 had been stopped from Kladovo to Tekija.
5 Q. So if I understand correctly, you continued unloading the bodies
6 during the course of the afternoon?
7 A. No. You did not understand correctly. We stopped working, and we
8 went home. The next day we returned in the morning and started activities
9 to prepare for transporting the bodies from the refrigerator truck on to
10 another lorry.
11 Q. And when did you continue your task of unloading the bodies from
12 the refrigerator truck?
13 A. When it got dark, around 8.00, 9.00.
14 Q. Why did you wait until it got dark to continue with this task?
15 A. Well, there is a populated area close by. People pass by. You
16 had to let the traffic pass again. There is a major thoroughfare from
17 Romania towards Kladovo. You couldn't stop traffic for the entire day.
18 You had to let the cars pass.
19 Q. How many more bodies did you unload from the truck that night?
20 A. Fifty-eight.
21 Q. Were these 58 entire bodies, or were there also body parts among
22 this -- these bodies?
23 A. Well, let number -- I'm saying 58, because there were 58 heads.
24 Q. How many --
25 A. And about 56 -- no, it was 56, and there were three decapitated
1 heads. So we reckoned the total, according to the number of heads. Now,
2 as for body parts, whether there were complete bodies, whether there were
3 more or less than 56, that was not established. There were 53 entire
4 corpses plus three heads.
5 Q. And do your observations that you noted earlier regarding the
6 bodies being in civilian clothes also apply to this second group of bodies
7 that you unloaded that night?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did you take any photographs of these bodies that were unloaded?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Why didn't you take any photographs?
12 A. Well, because the chief said it was not necessary; and if it
13 should be needed, it will be done in Belgrade or some other place where
14 the bodies are transported in the end.
15 Q. When you say that the chief said it was not necessary, who are you
16 referring to?
17 A. I mean Chief Caslav, the head of the SUP of Bor.
18 Q. When did he give these instructions, not to take any photographs?
19 A. Well, that evening, immediately when they came to that meeting.
20 Q. Were other persons present when these instructions were given out?
21 A. Yes, certainly. There were about ten of us.
22 Q. Now, what happened once you finished unloading the bodies?
23 A. Well, the truck with the corpses also drove off towards Donji
24 Milanovac, and the refrigerator truck that had held the bodies was hauled
25 out and placed on a trailer; and then it was transported to Petrovo Selo,
1 which is close to Kladovo. But I wasn't there to watch that part. I went
2 home to sleep.
3 Q. Was a different truck used to transport the bodies that evening,
4 or was it the same truck that had been used the night before with the
5 first group of bodies?
6 A. No. Another, a different truck was used that had come from
7 Belgrade. It also had Belgrade licence plates.
8 Q. Do you know what happened to the refrigerator truck at the -- that
9 was transported to Petrovo Selo?
10 A. It was first incinerated, and then it was blown up.
11 Q. Were you present when this happened?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you personally carry out this task of blowing the truck up, or
14 was someone else tasked with this?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. When you just responded "yes," do you mean that you personally
17 carried out this task?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who instructed you to destroy the truck?
20 A. Chief from Bor. Not directly Caslav Golubovic, but chief of crime
21 police, Toma Miladinovic, because I reported to him and I -- presumably,
22 he decided that with -- or discussed that with Caslav Golubovic, his
23 superior officer.
24 Q. Do you recall the date when this occurred, when the truck was
1 A. Give me a minute to collect my thoughts. I believe that it was
2 the 9th of April, counting 5th, 6th -- 8th or the 9th of April I think.
3 Q. Thank you. Mr. Golubovic [sic], in 2001 were you strewed by a
4 Working Group of the MUP that was tasked with investigating this incident
5 of the refrigerator truck?
6 A. I'm Mr. Radojkovic.
7 Q. Oh, I'm very sorry, Mr. Radojkovic. That was my mistake. I'm
8 very sorry. So, Mr. Radojkovic, in 2001 were you interviewed by a Working
9 Group of the MUP that was tasked with investigating this incident?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you later become aware of a communique that was issued by the
12 Working Group after your interview took place?
13 A. Your question is not clear to me.
14 Q. After you were interviewed by this Working Group, was a communique
15 issued by the Working Group where reference was made to the interview that
16 you provided?
17 A. Communique addressed to whom?
18 Q. A communique addressed to the public, a general public information
19 report that was issued by the Working Group.
20 A. I read this information later on. A couple days later when I went
21 to Belgrade, I had occasion to read it.
22 Q. And did the Working Group accurately transmit or communicate the
23 information that you had provided to them some days earlier?
24 A. No.
25 Q. What was incorrect in the information that was communicated by the
1 Working Group?
2 A. I cannot recall everything, but the basic misinformation was that
3 the refrigerator truck contained bodies wearing KLA uniforms.
4 Q. So do you stand by your testimony today that the bodies that you
5 handled when you were unloading them from the refrigerator truck did not
6 wear any type of uniform?
7 A. No. All bodies in that refrigerator truck wore civilian clothes.
8 Q. Do you have any idea why it is that the Working Group incorrectly
9 communicated this information about -- that you had provided to them?
10 A. Yes, I do. At that time I was, pursuant to district investigative
11 judge's order, together with MUP personnel, involved in the exhumations of
12 the mass grave at Petrovo Selo, which is also close to Kladovo. And in
13 those graves, apart from other bodies, there were bodies in KLA uniforms.
14 And when the Working Group was drafting a note for the minister,
15 Mr. Mihajlovic, they merged information about the refrigerator truck and
16 the Petrovo Selo mass graves. They did not sort out these, and on that
17 occasion I told them that this was inaccurate. We called the minister and
18 corrected that and stated that the refrigerator truck contained no bodies
19 in KLA uniforms.
20 Q. Thank you, Mr. Radojkovic.
21 MS. KRAVETZ: Your Honour, I have no further questions at this
23 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Ms. Kravetz.
24 Mr. Radojkovic, you were shown a number of photographs of the
25 truck. You had the camera from which these -- which produced these
1 photographs. Did you, in fact, not have any of them developed?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.
3 JUDGE BONOMY: Why was that?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It wasn't necessary. I had the
5 negatives in the case file.
6 JUDGE BONOMY: And was it your practice in other investigations to
7 keep the photographs undeveloped?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It would depend on the case. If it
9 is not a criminal offence, yes; but in more serious cases, photographs and
10 studies would be produced.
11 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
12 Mr. O'Sullivan.
13 MR. O'SULLIVAN: Your Honour, first will be counsel for General
14 Lukic, and thereafter we'll follow the indictment.
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.
16 MR. LUKIC: No questions, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. O'Sullivan.
18 MR. O'SULLIVAN: No questions.
19 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Fila.
20 MR. FILA: No questions.
21 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Visnjic.
22 MR. VISNJIC: No questions, Your Honour.
23 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Aleksic.
24 MR. ALEKSIC: [Interpretation] No questions, Your Honour.
25 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Cepic.
1 MR. CEPIC: Thank you, Your Honour. No questions for this
3 [Trial Chamber confers]
4 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Radojkovic, that brings were you evidence to an
5 end. Thank you for coming here to give that evidence. You are now free
6 to leave.
7 [The witness withdrew]
8 [Trial Chamber confers]
9 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Hannis, we have now had a chance to see the
10 joint Defence response to your application for a videolink transmission of
11 the evidence of Dusan Loncar. Now, we have a simple question for you: Do
12 you assure us that as far as you can tell this witness is fit to give
13 evidence via the videolink later this week?
14 MR. HANNIS: My information is that he is, Your Honour. Actually,
15 I have scheduled to speak with him tomorrow morning, and I certainly will
16 inquire about it at that time.
17 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, thank you.
18 We interpret the response as acknowledging that there's a measure
19 of fragility about the health of the witness that would merit the unusual
20 course of taking his evidence by videolink. We note also the expression
21 of concern that the Defence have made about the witness's health.
22 However, in this situation in an adversarial process, rather than an
23 inquisitorial process, the onus of satisfying the Bench that the witness's
24 condition is such as to permit him to give evidence lies with the party
25 tendering the witness, in this case the Prosecution.
1 We have confidence that if, as a result of the further
2 investigation that is to be carried out just mentioned by Mr. Hannis, it
3 is discovered that it would not be appropriate for reasons of health for
4 the witness to give evidence layer this week, then we will be advised of
5 that and appropriate arrangements made if we wish to check it or to
6 postpone the evidence. But in the light of these considerations and in
7 the state of our current knowledge, we authorise the testimony of Loncar
8 to be given by videolink conference.
9 Now, Mr. Hannis, does that assist with your planning of business
10 for the rest of this week?
11 MR. HANNIS: Well, it does, Your Honour. I only hope that he will
12 be to testify on Friday, because if he doesn't I don't know who I can find
13 to replace him. But I will not let that influence my judgement about
14 whether or not he is indeed able and fit to testify.
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, the other videolink that's arranged for
16 Wednesday, do you anticipate that both witnesses will be completed on
18 MR. HANNIS: I believe so, Your Honour. They're both fairly
19 short witnesses. Even though it takes longer to do a witness by
20 videolink, I still think in a five-hour day we can do them both.
21 JUDGE BONOMY: All right.
22 [Trial Chamber confers]
23 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, it does appear that there would be no useful
24 purpose served by compelling you to lead your next live witness tomorrow,
25 even if it were the afternoon, Mr. Hannis. But it is with some regret
1 that we note that that situation has developed. So it looks as though our
2 next sitting will be on Wednesday at 9.00 a.m.
3 MR. HANNIS: Thank you, Your Honour. I think the witness arrives
4 at 10.00 tonight, so he'll have an extra day to rest.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Very well. We'll adjourn now until 9.00 on
7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 3.18 p.m.,
8 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 29th day of
9 November, 2006, at 9.00 a.m.