Page 1895
1 Monday, 24 November 2008
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.16 a.m.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good morning to everybody in and around the
7 courtroom.
8 Madam Registrar, will you please call the case.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning,
10 everyone in and around the courtroom. This is case number IT-04-81-T,
11 the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Perisic.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
13 Could we have the appearances for today, starting with the
14 Prosecution.
15 MR. HARMON: Good morning, Mr. President. Good morning, Your
16 Honours, counsel. Mark Harmon, Ann Sutherland, and Carmela Javier for
17 the Prosecution.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
19 And for the Defence.
20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. Good
21 morning to everyone in the courtroom. Today in the courtroom, appearing
22 on behalf of Mr. Perisic, Milos Androvic, Tina Drolec, Daniela Tasic, and
23 Mr. Gregor Guy-Smith, and myself, Novak Lukic, as Defence counsel.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
25 Mr. Tesic, just to remind you -- good morning, sir.
Page 1896
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just to remind you that you're still bound by the
3 declaration you made at the beginning of your testimony to tell the
4 truth, the whole truth, and nothing else but the truth, okay?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
7 Just before I call you, Madam Sutherland. Just to apologise for
8 the late start. It was for reasons beyond our control. I hope we are
9 forgiven. You may start, Madam Sutherland.
10 MS. SUTHERLAND: Thank you, Your Honour.
11 WITNESS: BORIVOJE TESIC [Resumed]
12 [Witness answered through interpreter]
13 Examination by Ms. Sutherland: [Continued]
14 Q. Good morning, Mr. Tesic. On Thursday, we dealt very briefly with
15 your military career, and you said that you were a member of the Guards
16 Brigade for 14 years, from 1990 to 2004, and that you were appointed the
17 Chief of Staff of the Guards Brigade in 1997, and you were Deputy
18 Commander of that brigade between 2000 -- and the 31st of March, 2004
19 On Thursday, at transcript 1888 to 1889, you said that the Guards
20 Brigade was a unit within the Special Units Corps. In December 1993, who
21 was the commander of the Special Units Corps?
22 A. The commander of the Special Units Corps in December 1993 was
23 Colonel Miodrag Panic.
24 Q. Specifically in December 1993, who was Colonel Panic's superior
25 officer?
Page 1897
1 A. In 1993, Mr. Panic's superior was the Chief of General Staff,
2 General Perisic.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could have Exhibit P351 on the screen.
4 It's the organisational chart for the Special Units Corps.
5 Q. Mr. Tesic, this was the document that you had produced last week.
6 We can see in the box for the chief -- the Commander of the Special Units
7 Corps is Colonel Panic and that his Chief of Staff is Colonel Petkovic;
8 is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. We can also see that the commander of the Guards Motorised
11 Brigade is Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, and his Chief of Staff is
12 Miladinovic; is that correct?
13 THE INTERPRETER: Could counsel please slow down when pronouncing
14 the names. Thank you.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Did you hear that?
16 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes.
17 Q. I'm sorry. We didn't get your answer on the record.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. For the 72nd Special Brigade, it says that the -- first of all,
20 it has two names under that box. Who was the commander of the 72nd
21 Special Brigade in December 1993?
22 A. The command of the 72nd Special Brigade in 1993 was
23 Lieutenant-Colonel Stupar.
24 Q. And who was Lieutenant-Colonel Todorovic?
25 A. I think at that time he was Chief of Staff of the 72nd Special
Page 1898
1 Brigade.
2 Q. Thank you.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: I've finished with that document. Could we have
4 Rule 65 ter number 09378 on the screen, please.
5 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is the organisational chart for the Guards
6 Brigade as at December 1993, which you -- is this the chart that you had
7 produced last Wednesday?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Is this chart complete, to the best of your recollection?
10 A. For the most part, yes, 90 per cent.
11 Q. And when you say "for the most part," what do you mean by that?
12 A. Perhaps a minor unit is omitted, but it was a long time ago, so I
13 can't remember anymore. It was a long time ago, I said, so maybe a minor
14 unit has been omitted, a minor unit that I don't think is very important
15 for this schematic.
16 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, may I tender that chart into
17 evidence?
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: The chart is so admitted into evidence. May it
19 please be given an exhibit number.
20 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P352, Your Honours.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
22 MS. SUTHERLAND: I've finished with that document, thank you.
23 Q. I now wish to deal with events at the end of December 1993
24 relating to Bosnia
25 A. Towards the end of December 1993, we received an order; I
Page 1899
1 received an order from my superior officer to get ready with the other
2 troops and, with the other units of the Special Brigade [as interpreted],
3 to move to Vogosca.
4 Q. Who was your superior officer who gave you the order?
5 A. My superior was Lieutenant-Colonel --
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
7 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I'm sorry to interrupt. I believe
8 there's a misinterpretation. The witness said "Guards Brigade," not
9 Special Brigade. Just to avoid confusion, the witness said "Guards
10 Brigade," and both the Guards Brigade and Special Brigade exist. We
11 should not confuse them.
12 MS. SUTHERLAND:
13 Q. Mr. Tesic, when I asked you what order did you receive, the
14 transcript has that you said that you were -- received an order from your
15 superior officer "... to get ready with the other troops and, with the
16 other units of the Special Brigade, to move to Vogosca." Was that your
17 answer?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who was your superior officer who gave you the order?
20 A. My superior officer at the time was Lieutenant-Colonel
21 Ljubisa Stojimirovic, and the Chief of Staff was Lieutenant-Colonel
22 Miladinovic, from whom I received that order.
23 Q. How did you receive the order? Was it written or oral?
24 A. Oral.
25 Q. You said that you were told to go with the Guards Brigade and
Page 1900
1 other units of the Special Brigade to move to Vogosca. What was the --
2 were you told the substance of -- what was the substance of the order?
3 To do what?
4 A. The reason why we were supposed to go there was to help pull out
5 the 72nd Special Brigade from that area, to take over the bodies of the
6 eight dead members of that brigade, and, to the extent possible, to
7 stabilise the part of the defence line held by the Vogosca Brigade of the
8 VRS.
9 Q. Who else -- who else received this order?
10 A. All the units that were engaged in the execution of that task.
11 Q. Can you be more specific in relation to the units?
12 A. I suppose there is a written document governing the move of the
13 units towards Vogosca. I don't have that document here with me, and I
14 haven't seen it. But it's certain that regardless of the oral order, we
15 would not have gone there without a written order.
16 Q. How many -- how many men were involved in this mission to Bosnia
17 at the end of December 2000 -- 1993, with yourself?
18 A. Around 200 members of the Guards Brigade as of 31st December,
19 1993, were located in Vogosca.
20 Q. But initially how many men left when you left -- when you left
21 Belgrade
22 A. Around 100 to 120 members of the Guards Brigade.
23 Q. You said that you received this order from your commanding
24 officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic. Did he have authority to issue
25 that order?
Page 1901
1 A. As far as subordinate units were concerned, he had the authority
2 to write that order. Whether he had the right to go with the unit, I
3 would not like to say anything because I believe I'm not qualified.
4 Q. What I mean is did -- did the order originate from him, or did he
5 receive that order from his superior officer?
6 A. I suppose he received it from his superior level, and that's the
7 Special Units Corps of the Army of Yugoslavia
8 Q. And then, again, the commander of the Special Corps, would have
9 he, then, received the order from his superior officer?
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
11 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] This previous question seemed to me
12 to be speculative; and now, again, the witness is asked to speculate.
13 The Prosecutor could perhaps ask the witness how, within the normal
14 procedure, the chain of command operates from the Special Units Corps
15 towards the Guards Brigade. But now I believe the witness is being asked
16 to speculate with regard to a specific order.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Sutherland.
18 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I'll rephrase the question.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
20 MS. SUTHERLAND:
21 Q. Mr. Tesic, in the normal military chain of command, when an order
22 is given by a commanding officer, is it the case that the order comes
23 from above -- or what is -- tell the Court, in normal command structure,
24 how does a commanding officer receive their orders?
25 A. The commander has to receive orders from the superior command.
Page 1902
1 Without such an order, he cannot initiate any activities. Based on an
2 order from the superior level, he formulates all the documents that are
3 envisaged by the order from the superior command.
4 Q. So with respect to the order that you received to go into Bosnia
5 would have Colonel Stupar from the -- who was commander of the Special
6 Units Corps, would have he had the authorisation to order troops into a
7 recognised independent state?
8 A. I'm sorry. Stupar was not commander of the 72nd Special Brigade.
9 Q. I'm sorry. Miodrag Panic. You're correct. Would Panic have had
10 authority to send troops into a recognised independent state?
11 A. I believe not.
12 Q. Therefore, the order sending elements of the Guards Brigade and
13 the Special Brigade into Bosnia
14 A. I suppose it had to come from the General Staff.
15 Q. And who is the highest-ranking officer in the General Staff?
16 A. We could see that from the schematic a moment ago. The Chief of
17 General Staff at the time was General Perisic.
18 Q. So going back to this operation at the end of December 1993, what
19 was your function at the time? What was the position you held?
20 A. Towards the end of December 1993, I was an operations officer
21 within the staff of the Guards Brigade.
22 Q. What, if anything, did you do in preparation of the movement of
23 the detachment?
24 A. The operations officer was supposed to create an order based on
25 the order of the superior command, if such orders had been received, and
Page 1903
1 I said before that I don't remember whether we did receive it; and the
2 operations officer also made preparations personally for the movement
3 into the field.
4 Q. Is it protocol for the brigade to keep a war diary of the
5 mission?
6 A. The brigade is duty-bound to keep all the documents stipulated by
7 the regulations, including the war diary.
8 Q. What is the purpose of a war diary?
9 A. The purpose of the war diary is to record all the activities
10 within the command and all the activities of the units within a specific
11 area in the field.
12 Q. And that would be daily operations?
13 A. Daily, hourly operations, operations minute by minute, if such
14 are taking place in the field.
15 Q. Would the diary also have in it significant events that occurred
16 during the day?
17 A. The operations officer is obligated to enter all activities
18 notified to him or activities that the superior officer tells him to
19 include.
20 Q. Would that also include any orders that were given during the
21 day?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And does the -- is it protocol that the war diary accurately
24 reflects all those entries that you -- all those events that you have
25 just told us about?
Page 1904
1 A. It should.
2 Q. Who was responsible for filling in the war diary?
3 A. The officers on duty at the moment.
4 Q. And the protocol for filling in the war diary, you said that you
5 fill in daily -- daily events. So within this diary, there would be
6 successive entries; is that correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. On a day where perhaps nothing of significance or no event
9 occurs, would there still be an entry for that day?
10 A. Information has to be entered to the effect that no particular
11 activities are taking place and that the units were working in a planned,
12 organised manner.
13 Q. What is the procedure in respect of noting visits from
14 high-ranking officers?
15 A. I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you clarify?
16 Q. So if -- if, for example, the -- as an example, the brigade
17 received a visit from a superior officer, would that be noted in the war
18 diary?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Was a war diary kept on the mission at the end of December 1993?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Who was responsible for filling in this war diary?
23 A. We set out together, Major Paunovic, also an operations officer
24 from the Guards Brigade, and myself, and we filled in the war diary
25 together. I don't know about anything else because I haven't seen the
Page 1905
1 diary itself for quite a long time.
2 Q. When did the detachment leave Belgrade?
3 A. A part of the Guards Brigade set out on the 30th December, 1993
4 to execute their mission.
5 Q. Do you recall anyone in particular seeing the detachment off,
6 anyone -- any superior officers seeing the detachment leave Belgrade
7 A. Yes. General Mile Mrksic.
8 Q. What was his position at the time?
9 A. I think, if I'm not mistaken, he was Chief of the Ground Forces
10 of the Army of Yugoslavia
11 Q. What was the marching route?
12 A. The route was Belgrade
13 Semizovac, and Vogosca.
14 Q. Where did you go upon your arrival to Vogosca?
15 A. When we got to Vogosca, we stopped and stayed at a hotel in
16 Vogosca, which already housed some members of the 72nd Brigade and some
17 superior officers from the Special Units Corps.
18 Q. Do you recall who the superior officers of the Special Corps were
19 that were there when you arrived?
20 A. It was a long time ago, but I think Colonel Panic was there,
21 Lieutenant-Colonel Golic, and I'm not sure for the rest. I wouldn't be
22 certain about them.
23 Q. Besides the 72nd Brigade that you have mentioned, were there any
24 other elements of the Special Units Corps already in Bosnia at that time?
25 A. Apart from the 72nd Brigade, there was a part of the Guards
Page 1906
1 Brigade and part of the forces of the Armoured Brigade.
2 Q. And how did you know that?
3 A. I knew because I saw Major Borovcanin when we arrived. I saw him
4 at the Hotel Park
5 the theatre of operations.
6 Q. When you said you were touring the theatre of operations, where
7 were these other units situated?
8 A. Part of the Guards Brigade was -- and part of Armoured Brigade
9 were located immediately above the town of Vogosca occupying the nearest
10 hilltops, and on the road between Sarajevo
11 manufacturing plant for the Volkswagen Golf motor vehicle.
12 Q. And these were all VJ troops?
13 A. There were members of the army, and there were also members of
14 the Republic of Srpska
15 Q. When you say "members of the army," you're talking about the Army
16 of Yugoslavia
17 A. Yes, the VJ, but also in that area there were members of the VRS.
18 Q. How long did you stay in Bosnia
19 A. I returned, if I'm not mistaken, somewhere on the 30th of
20 January, 1994.
21 Q. Did the Guards Brigade report back to Belgrade; and if so, how
22 did they do that?
23 A. We sent daily reports in the morning hours and in the evening
24 hours to the operations centre of the Special Units Corps of the Army of
25 Yugoslavia
Page 1907
1 Q. Was it protocol for this information to be passed further up the
2 chain of command?
3 A. I suppose so, yes.
4 Q. Was there telephone communication between Vogosca and Belgrade
5 A. There were communications, and I presume that they were used.
6 Q. What is the protocol in relation to reporting to superior
7 officers when you're in the field?
8 A. Through regular reports or through telephone communication.
9 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I'd now like to go into closed
10 session to deal with several documents.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into closed session.
12 [Closed session] [Confidentiality lifted by order of Trial Chamber I]
13 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in closed session.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Rule 65 ter number 09065 on the
16 screen, please. If I could have page 7 of the B/C/S and page 1 of the
17 English, please.
18 Q. Mr. Tesic, the document that we have in front of us, is this the
19 war diary that you were referring to earlier?
20 A. Yes. That's the first page of the war diary that I referred to.
21 Q. You had the opportunity to review this document last week; is
22 that correct?
23 A. Yes. The Prosecution's lawyer showed me this war diary.
24 Q. And you said that you and Radoje Paunovic made the entries in
25 this document?
Page 1908
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. At the top of the first page, we see the word "operative" crossed
3 out and the word "war" written, handwritten. Do you know who made that
4 notation?
5 A. This is my handwriting.
6 Q. Now, if we can go through this document, and if you can point out
7 for the Court the entries that you made in this diary. Starting with
8 entry number 1, tell the Court whether it was yourself or Mr. Paunovic
9 who made the entry, if we can go through each of the pages.
10 A. Number 1, this is the information entered by me.
11 Q. And is that your signature at the side of the -- in column number
12 4?
13 A. This is my signature, and I also entered item number 2 as well.
14 Q. And, again, your signature at the side.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could just go to the next page, please.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Items under numbers 3 and 4 were
17 entered by me and signed by me as well.
18 MS. SUTHERLAND:
19 Q. Now, we also see another signature in the fifth column. Whose
20 signature is that?
21 A. The signature of the Commander of the Guards Brigade,
22 Lieutenant-Colonel Ljubisa Stojimirovic.
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: Can we go to the next page.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Information under number 5 and 6
25 were entered by me, as well as information under number 9, and I also
Page 1909
1 signed those; and other information under number 7, 8, and 10 were
2 entered by Major Paunovic.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND:
4 Q. And that's his signature in the column marked number 4?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. I'm not going to take you to every single page now. I'm
7 going to take you to entry number 16, which is on B/C/S page number 13
8 and English page number 8.
9 Now, we can see there, Mr. Tesic, that the entry for number 16 is
10 blank.
11 MS. SUTHERLAND: I'm sorry. If we can go to the page before that
12 in B/C/S and in English. At the bottom of page 15, entry number 15 is
13 dated the 6th of January, 1994. And then if we can go over to the next
14 page, to entry number 16, and then entry number 17 is dated the 9th of
15 January, 1994.
16 Q. Do you recall, when you were filling out this war diary, seeing a
17 blank space when you wrote in the diary subsequent to this date?
18 A. I don't remember that. I don't remember, neither did I see this
19 blank space.
20 Q. And as you testified earlier, in relation to every day, something
21 had to be put, even if it was that nothing occurred on that day; is that
22 correct?
23 A. Yes. Correct.
24 MS. SUTHERLAND: Okay. Can we please go back to page 1 of the
25 diary, and that is page -- I'm sorry, Your Honour.
Page 1910
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Before we do that, can I just find out from the
2 witness: Do you recognise the signature against item 17?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I recognise this
4 signature. This is Major Paunovic's signature. He's an operations
5 officer from the Guards Brigade.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
7 Yes, ma'am.
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Before we go to page 1, if we can go to the
9 previous page, entry number 15.
10 Q. Again, Mr. Tesic, whose signature is that next to entry number
11 15?
12 A. In column 4, this is Major Paunovic's signature.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we can go to B/C/S page 7 and English page 1.
15 Q. Mr. Tesic, we can see in the first entry that the detachment is
16 moving out, and it's received its marching order. Listed there, are
17 those the members of the other units that went with you on this mission,
18 for example, the Traffic Police, the Military Police Armoured Personnel
19 Carrier Platoon, the Military Police Special Purposes Platoon, the Guards
20 Motorised Brigade Command, Communications Detachment, Reconnaissance
21 Detachment, a part of Headquarters Administration, Engineering
22 Detachment, the 2nd Motorised Battalion, a Mortar Battery, Medical
23 Support, Technical Support, and the Rear Security was made up of Armoured
24 Combat Vehicle? Is that the group of units that went to Vogosca?
25 A. The marching orders under number 1 is correct, accurate, and
Page 1911
1 those units departed for Vogosca on the 30th of December, 1993.
2 Q. Now, you had an opportunity to review this document last week.
3 Did you see any incorrect information that had been noted in the diary?
4 A. I did not notice anything in particular, apart from the content
5 of the war diary for which I believe it was written without any additions
6 at the time it was -- it purports to be written.
7 Q. Now, what equipment did your unit take with you to Vogosca? When
8 I say "your unit," the detachment that you went with. What military
9 equipment did you take?
10 A. Each member carried their own equipment and arms, weapons, from
11 the standard issue of the Army of Yugoslavia.
12 Q. And what other -- what other vehicles or heavy equipment, besides
13 personal arms, was on the mission?
14 A. Wheeled vehicles, trucks, armoured personnel carrier, military
15 police vehicles. All the other equipment could be loaded onto trucks,
16 such as mortars. There were no other such artillery. There were
17 vehicles of infantry, and that was that.
18 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we now turn to entry number 3, which is
19 B/C/S page 8 and English page 3 -- 2.
20 Q. Does this detail a meeting that was -- a meeting that was had on
21 the 1st of January, 1994?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And Panic was present at this meeting?
24 A. I'm not certain.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Lukic?
Page 1912
1 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think it would be fair to ask the
2 question to the witness, who was at that meeting? I believe that this is
3 slightly leading.
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Sutherland.
5 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I can rephrase the question.
6 Q. Mr. Tesic, who was present at the meeting on the 1st of January
7 at 800 hours?
8 A. At 800 hours, the meeting was attended by commanders of the units
9 that were engaged in the area of Vogosca from within the ranks of the
10 Guards Brigade.
11 Q. And following that meeting, what did you do?
12 A. After the meeting, I went on reconnaissance with a group of
13 officers to reconnoitre the area.
14 Q. Who were the officers that went on reconnaissance?
15 A. The officers listed in the war diary, Colonel Panic, Corps
16 Commander; Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, Commander of the Guards
17 Brigade; Lieutenant-Colonel Vukasinovic, Security Organ in the Guards
18 Brigade; Major Borovcanin, Commander of the 2nd Motorised Battalion; and
19 me.
20 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could now turn to entry number 4, which is
21 B/C/S page 8, English page 3, so just further down the page.
22 Q. What tasks were you -- sorry, we can see that this was a meeting
23 on the 2nd of January. What tasks were the units given on that day?
24 A. The tasks to the units are listed in the war diary. The
25 engineering detachment was ordered to engage in preparing the positions
Page 1913
1 of the mortar battery. Then the combat group from the military police
2 ranks were supposed to engage at the front line to destroy enemy snipers
3 and other important targets which may appear in the area of
4 responsibility, and part of the 2nd Battalion, with the reconnaissance
5 detachment, should organise the defence of the Donja Josevici village
6 with the task of reinforcing the Josevici battalion defence lines, keep
7 readiness to provide support during attacks by Josevici battalion, and
8 engage in repelling enemy from the direction of Ugorsko.
9 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we can go to entry number 5, which is
10 directly below that.
11 Q. This was an entry that was also written by you.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And this entry related to a soldier called Milos Popovic; is that
14 correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And that's detailing the fact that he was injured.
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. Do you know what unit he was part of?
19 A. He belonged to the 2nd Motorised Battalion of Major Borovcanin.
20 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could now turn to entry number 12, which
21 is in the B/C/S page 9, and the English page 6.
22 Q. This entry is also written by you, is it not?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And it's of a meeting held at 0630 hours on the 5th of January,
25 1994.
Page 1914
1 A. I apologise. This entry is not in my handwriting. I thought you
2 were discussing item 11 and the five items within it.
3 Q. No. I'm taking you to entry number 12. Is that entry -- has
4 that entry been done by Mr. Paunovic?
5 A. I presume, but I can't see the signature.
6 Q. What were you asked to do at that meeting? What were you tasked
7 to do on the 5th of January, 1994?
8 A. I can't recall at this particular point in time. On the 6th, I
9 know that I was at the positions of the 2nd Motorised Battalion in the
10 area held by the Vogosca Brigade.
11 Q. And you were to be there with Major Cvjetinovic; is that correct?
12 A. I couldn't really say before I see a part of the document.
13 Q. Sorry.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we can go to the next page of the B/C/S.
15 Q. Were you and Cvjetinovic to observe the firing of the
16 anti-aircraft guns on the targets on the ground?
17 A. I wouldn't say that these are anti-aircraft cannons, but the
18 activities of those forces in the wider area of Rasnik, I was supposed to
19 monitor their operations, their activities. I was supposed to do so with
20 Cvjetinovic, Major Cvjetinovic. And then the last passage within this
21 item, it is referred to observation of firing of anti-aircraft cannon on
22 the targets on the ground, yes. In other words, yes.
23 Q. And then you are to monitor establishing contacts between the
24 Kosevo Brigade and the Vogosca Brigade.
25 A. Yes.
Page 1915
1 Q. Now, the Vogosca Brigade there, is that the VJ unit, or is that
2 the VRS unit?
3 A. The Kosevo and the Vogosca Brigades belonged to the VRS.
4 Q. Now, we can see that Mr. Paunovic has put his signature to that
5 entry, entry number 12; is that correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, if I can go to one more entry
8 before the break. Is that appropriate?
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: You go ahead, ma'am.
10 MS. SUTHERLAND: Oh, no, we'll wait until after the break.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: We'll take a break and come back at a quarter to
12 11.00. Court adjourned.
13 --- Recess taken at 10.15 a.m.
14 --- On resuming at 10.46 a.m.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Sutherland.
16 MS. SUTHERLAND: Thank you, Your Honour.
17 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
18 Q. Mr. Tesic, if we can look at entry number 14, which is in the
19 B/C/S, page 12; in the English, page 7. If we can look at the entry for
20 the meeting -- sorry, entry number 14 down the bottom of the page. On
21 the 5th of January, 1994, at 1700 hours, we can see that this is an order
22 of the corps commander, in relation to paragraph 1: "Pursuant to the
23 needs and approval of the NGS VJ, the 72nd Special Brigade shall leave
24 the area of responsibility --"
25 MS. SUTHERLAND: I'm sorry, Your Honour. I just want to make
Page 1916
1 sure that we're in closed session.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: We are.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: Sorry.
4 Q. "... the 72nd Special Brigade shall leave the area of
5 responsibility of the Sarajevo Romanija Corps at 530 hours on the 6th of
6 January, 1994
7 Who is the NGS VJ?
8 A. It's an acronym for the Chief of General Staff of the VJ.
9 Q. And who is the Chief of the General Staff of the VJ?
10 A. On the 5th of January, 1994, it was General Perisic.
11 Q. Now, it also says there under paragraph numbered 5 that the 72nd
12 Brigade will hand over elements of troops and materiel to the Guards
13 Motorised Brigade.
14 A. Yes.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I would seek to tender that
16 document -- this document into evidence.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
18 please be given an exhibit number.
19 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P353, under seal, Your
20 Honours.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
22 MS. SUTHERLAND:
23 Q. We will come back to this document in a moment, Mr. Tesic, but I
24 would like you to look at another document, and that's Rule 65 ter
25 number --
Page 1917
1 MS. SUTHERLAND: And this still requires closed session,
2 unfortunately, Your Honour.
3 Q. -- Rule 65 ter number 09067. Mr. Tesic, as you can see on the
4 screen, this is a document dated the 5th of January, 1994. Is this the
5 order that we just saw in the war diary at entry number 14?
6 A. Yes.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I would seek to tender that
8 document into evidence.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
10 please be given an exhibit number.
11 Sorry, Mr. Lukic.
12 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have no objection. That's not the
13 reason I'm on my feet. It's just a technical matter, Your Honours. The
14 previous document that was admitted, in the B/C/S version, the diary of
15 the Guards Brigade, in the 65 ter document there are seven more pages
16 before that, if you have noticed. When the Prosecutor announced the
17 pages, she said page 7, and those six pages in the B/C/S version are
18 actually correspondence between OTP and the state of FRY. I suppose that
19 these six pages do not come into evidence, so that this diary, P353,
20 practically starts from page 7 in B/C/S.
21 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Sutherland.
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. I would agree. We actually
24 want the war diary from page 7 of the B/C/S and page 1 of the English
25 translation, so we do not seek to have the correspondence between the
Page 1918
1 Republic of Serbia
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
3 I hope, Madam Registrar, you are taking note of that. Thank you
4 so much.
5 Now, 65 ter 09067 is admitted into evidence. May it please be
6 given an exhibit number.
7 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P354, under seal, Your
8 Honour.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. I would imagine even the
10 previous one is under seal?
11 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we have Rule 65 ter number 09070, please,
14 and if we could go to page 4 of the B/C/S and page 4 of the English.
15 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is a document with the Hotel Park
16 dated the 5th of January, 1994. Is this your handwriting?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And this is a document signed by your superior officer,
19 Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- sent to the -- sent to the VJ Special Units Corps command
22 operations centre. Is that correct?
23 A. It's sent to the operations centre, personally to the Chief of
24 Staff of the Special Units Corps of the Army of Yugoslavia, Colonel
25 Petkovic.
Page 1919
1 Q. And does this document set out the fact that the units have
2 worked according to plan and that the 72nd Special Brigade has handed
3 over the area of responsibility?
4 A. Yes.
5 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I would ask that that document be
6 admitted into evidence.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence, under
8 seal, I guess?
9 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. I'm sorry.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: It is admitted into evidence under seal. May it
11 please be given an exhibit number.
12 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P355, under seal, Your
13 Honours.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could turn to the next -- sorry, in that
16 exhibit, P354 -- 355, if we could go to the next page, and that's B/C/S
17 page 5 and English page 5.
18 Q. Mr. Tesic, again, a document dated the 5th of January, 1994
19 this your handwriting?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And, again, it's sent to the VJ Special Units Corps command for
22 the attention of the chief of staff.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Now, does this document say that part of the 72nd Special Brigade
25 is leaving the area of responsibility of the Sarajevo Romanija Corps and
Page 1920
1 returning to the original garrison?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And where is the original garrison?
4 A. Garrison Belgrade.
5 Q. Thank you.
6 MS. SUTHERLAND: I've finished with that document. If we could
7 have Rule 65 ter number 09072.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
9 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] A technical matter again. I suppose
10 when the Prosecutor tendered 09070 and when it was admitted under the
11 number given that all the ten pages of that document have been tendered.
12 In fact, those are ten separate reports. We should be precise about
13 this. All the documents from 9070 make up this P number.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. I would ask that all of the
15 ten pages are admitted. I will be taking Mr. Tesic to -- back to this
16 exhibit later on. I simply wanted to take him to two pages at the
17 moment, which I've done.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can I ask that each time you ask for a document to
19 be admitted, ma'am, you specify exactly what it is you want to be
20 admitted.
21 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: All right.
23 MS. SUTHERLAND:
24 Q. Mr. Tesic, the document that's on the screen in front of -- in
25 front of us is a document dated the 13th of January, 1994. If we
Page 1921
1 could -- and it's from your commanding officer, your superior officer,
2 again, Mr. Stojimirovic, and this is a report. Who is he sending this
3 report to?
4 A. This is an order to the units of the Guards Brigade, that is, to
5 commanders and commanders of independent units.
6 Q. Now, in that -- in this order, is he -- is he advising that the
7 elements of the Guards Motorised Brigade units have reinforced the 72nd
8 Special Brigade and entered the formation of the Sarajevo Romanija Corps
9 on the 17th of December, 1993?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And that upon the arrival of the Guards Motorised Brigade in
12 Vogosca on the 31st of December, 1993, the reinforcement units left the
13 formation of the 72nd Special Brigade and entered the formation of the
14 Guards Motorised Brigade, and that the current numerical strength in the
15 Guards Motorised Brigade is 210 men.
16 A. That's what it says in the order.
17 Q. And that would be pursuant to those earlier orders that we saw
18 dated the 5th of January, 1994.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Then the document details the unit formation and what it now
21 comprises of, and that is a communications detachment, engineering
22 detachment, reconnaissance detachment, military police, a military police
23 detachment for special purposes, a tank platoon, four 120-millimetre
24 mortar batteries, five armoured combat vehicles, a mixed anti-aircraft
25 platoon, including two Pragas. What are Pragas?
Page 1922
1 A. These weapons are intended for combat against targets in the air.
2 Q. It also says in paragraph 2 that: "Pursuant to the order of the
3 Sarajevo Romanija Corps commander of 2nd of January, 1994, the Guards
4 Motorised Brigade entered the reserve formation of the SRK ..." Is that
5 correct?
6 A. That's what it says.
7 Q. Does it then go on to say that independently of that order,
8 "since the 2nd of January, 1994, all the Guards Motorised Brigade units,
9 except for the military police platoon, have been engaged in the area of
10 responsibility of the Vogosca, Mrkonjic and Kosevo Brigades," some
11 elements having been engaged with the 72nd Special Brigade prior to that
12 date, that is, prior to the 2nd of January, 1994?
13 A. Yes.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry. If we could just go back to that page. I
15 have a question to ask.
16 Mr. Tesic, what does it mean to say that "the Guards Motorised
17 Brigade entered the reserve formation of the SRK"?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The very term "reserve" is clear.
19 It is the right of the commander of the unit to use the units in view of
20 the situation as it has developed. So the unit can be brought in from
21 the reserve and used in combat activities.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: With the SRK
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Thank you.
25 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I seek to tender that document.
Page 1923
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
2 please be given an exhibit number.
3 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P356 --
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Under seal.
5 THE REGISTRAR: -- under seal, Your Honours.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: While we still have the document on the screen,
8 if we could go to page 3 of -- the second page of the document, of the
9 English translation.
10 Q. Mr. Tesic, does it also -- does this document also say that: "In
11 the next activities, the aforementioned Guards Brigade forces can be
12 engaged along the direction of the main impact within the formation of
13 the BG-2 or BG-3 ..."
14 A. Yes, that's what the order says.
15 Q. And what do you understand BG-2 or BG-3 or, in fact, BG-1 to
16 mean?
17 A. It's an acronym. Combat group 1, 2, and 3.
18 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we have Rule 65 ter number 095 -- 075 on
19 the screen, please. The Rule 65 ter number is 09075.
20 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is a document dated the 15th of January, 1994
21 As you can see, it's from the commander Dragan Josipovic. Who is it
22 addressed to?
23 A. Commander Dragan Josipovic was one of the commanders of the Army
24 of Republika Srpska. This order was sent to a large number of units on
25 brigade level in the VRS.
Page 1924
1 Q. And is one of the units it's being sent to the reserve units of
2 the Main
3 A. Yes. We can see all the addressees, so one of them is -- are the
4 reserve units of the Main Staff.
5 Q. And this is an order to -- in relation to the movement of motor
6 vehicles.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Lukic.
8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I don't want to object all the time
9 to leading questions in disputable matters, but I think the Prosecutor is
10 leading the witness too much. It would be fairer to ask the witness what
11 we can see from the document and what it means. This is, after all,
12 examination-in-chief.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Sutherland.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. I take my learned friend's
15 point.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay.
17 MS. SUTHERLAND: I would seek to tender that document into
18 evidence, Your Honour.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence, under
20 seal --
21 MS. SUTHERLAND: No. Yes, Your Honour, thank you.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: May it please be given an exhibit number.
23 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P357, under seal, Your
24 Honours.
25 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, we can move into open session at
Page 1925
1 the moment, if that document is taken off the screen.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into open session.
3 [Open session]
4 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
6 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we have Rule 65 ter number 01222 on the
7 screen, please.
8 Q. Mr. Tesic, what is the date of this document? And who is it from
9 and who is it to?
10 A. This document was drafted on the 25th of December, 1993, at the
11 Main Staff of the VRS, and it was signed by Deputy Commander Manojlo
12 Milovanovic. Deputy Commander, Major-General Manojlo Milovanovic.
13 Q. And in this document, is any reference made to the Yugoslav Army?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What does it say about the Yugoslav Army?
16 A. It says that the use and designation by the term "VJ," Vojska
17 Jugoslavija, that is, Army of Yugoslavia, in regular and telephone
18 communications is banned. Similarly, the use of any reference to the
19 reserve of the Main Staff, that is, the reserve of the Main Staff of the
20 VRS, is also forbidden.
21 Q. I'm sorry. If I can take you to the last sentence of the
22 paragraph. Could you read the last sentence, please.
23 A. "The forces of the Army of Yugoslavia should be treated as the
24 reserve of the Main Staff of the VRS regardless of the number, size,
25 strength, and type."
Page 1926
1 Q. Is this order in line with the previous orders that we have seen?
2 A. Probably.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I seek to tender that document into
4 evidence.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
6 please be given an exhibit number, under seal.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, there's no need --
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: I beg your pardon. Not under seal.
9 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P358, Your Honours.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
11 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we have Rule 65 ter number 01223 on the
12 screen, please.
13 Q. Mr. Tesic, what is the date of this document? Who is it from and
14 who is it to?
15 A. The date is the 27th of December, 1993. It is an interim report
16 sent to the Main Staff of the Army of the Republika Srpska and is sent
17 by - if we could scroll down - sent by the Commander of the Sarajevo
18 Romanija Corps, Major-General Stanislav Galic.
19 Q. What is General Galic reporting on in this document?
20 A. He reports on the Pancir-2 operation and an attack by the combat
21 group 1, and also reports on other elements referred to in this order,
22 and I'd rather not mention them.
23 Q. What does it say in relation to the operation? When was the date
24 of the operation?
25 A. The operation, as stated here, was conducted on the 27th of
Page 1927
1 December, 1993
2 72nd Special Brigade of the VJ, against a medical centre facility. It
3 describes when the attack began, how many members of the opposing forces
4 were present in the facility, and describes that seven members of the
5 72nd Special Brigade were killed on that occasion. It also states that
6 in other brigades there were casualties; members of those were killed or
7 wounded.
8 Q. What was the date of the operation?
9 A. The 27th December, 1993.
10 Q. You mentioned that seven were -- seven members of the 72nd
11 Brigade were killed. Does it further on make any reference to any
12 members of the VJ being killed?
13 A. Eight members were killed in total who were members of the 72nd
14 Special Brigade during that operation, and that 72nd Brigade was from the
15 VJ.
16 Q. Does it say where they were killed?
17 A. In this document, it is stated that it went for the medical
18 centre facility under the name of Betanija.
19 Q. Was there also an attack on Orahov Brijeg?
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Lukic. Yes, Madam Sutherland, you are asking
21 leading questions.
22 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Another thing I'd like to add, Your
23 Honour. This witness has come to testify here on things which are known
24 to him. I believe the Prosecutor is trying too much in terms of analysis
25 of the mentioned documents. First, maybe he should have been asked what
Page 1928
1 he knew and then to be corroborated by documents. This happened before
2 his arrival there. He's asked to relate the contents of that document.
3 Let's ask the witness about the facts that he knew and witnessed and then
4 discuss the facts before us.
5 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, this witness has already testified
6 that he was ordered to go to Bosnia
7 bodies of eight VJ soldiers.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: That may be so, ma'am. Then he must tell us the
9 full story from his memory. He's a fact witness; he's not an expert
10 witness, and for you to put exhibits before him and ask him questions
11 which he just reads from there doesn't give us any idea on the -- on his
12 memory of the events. I think you must put your documents on the screen
13 once he has already testified for the document to confirm what he has
14 already told us.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
17 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, may that document be admitted into
18 evidence.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: It is so admitted. May it please be given an
20 exhibit number.
21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit P359.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
23 MS. SUTHERLAND:
24 Q. Mr. Tesic, what specific tasks did Lieutenant-Colonel
25 Stojimirovic give you in regard to the retrieval of the eight bodies of
Page 1929
1 the 72nd Brigade?
2 A. Before our departure to the area of Republika Srpska, we were
3 told that we were going to go there to retrieve the bodies, to replace
4 the 72nd Special Brigade, and to help stabilise the front line in the
5 area of Vogosca in the light of the casualties suffered. Upon our
6 arrival to Vogosca, we engaged in stabilising the system of defence of
7 the Vogosca Brigade. Part of our officers was in charge of maintaining
8 communication and getting hold of the bodies of the killed members of the
9 72nd Brigade. Some of those officers received some of those bodies on
10 the 14th of January, it seems to me, in 1994; and the last body to be
11 received was received on the 25th or the 28th of January, 1994, when our
12 return to Belgrade
13 Guards Brigade to the home formation, home unit in Belgrade, in Serbia
14 Q. Were you asked -- in regard to the bodies, were you asked to --
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: No, no. You're going to ask a leading question.
16 "What were you asked?"
17 MS. SUTHERLAND:
18 Q. In relation to what you were tasked to do, what did you do?
19 A. Through the intelligence and security organs, we contacted the
20 other side, since the bodies of the killed members of the 72nd Brigade
21 were taken and removed from the medical centre facility. Further
22 communication went through security organs with a view of retrieving
23 their bodies, and there was no engagement of the Guards Brigade in this
24 task, since there was no need for that.
25 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go into closed session, please, Your
Page 1930
1 Honour.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into closed session.
3 [Closed session]
4 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in closed session.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
6 Yes, Madam Sutherland.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Rule 65 ter number 09066 on the
8 screen, please.
9 Q. Before that comes up, Mr. Tesic, what, if any, documents were you
10 asked to prepare?
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I suggest, in fact, that even before that
12 document comes - don't pull it back first - ask your questions on that
13 document, and let the document come to confirm what the witness has
14 testified.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND:
16 Q. Mr. Tesic?
17 A. The operations organ keeps all the documents as required by the
18 rule book. Which specific document you mean, I don't know, but I can
19 explain it. I do believe that the command of the Guards Brigade maintain
20 all the records and documents as per requirements.
21 Q. What, if any, documents did you prepare in relation to the bodies
22 that you retrieved -- that were retrieved -- or that were killed, I'm
23 sorry, in relation to the soldiers who were killed or wounded?
24 A. The operations organ, which means the command of the Guards
25 Brigade, keeps documents on all casualties, be it killed or wounded, in a
Page 1931
1 certain action. And in this particular case I remember, since the 72nd
2 Brigade went out of the area of the Republic of Srpska
3 I entered for those members and for the members of the Guards Brigade I
4 retrieved from the medical centre, our clinic, which was located at
5 Semizovac near Vogosca from the protocols on those killed and wounded in
6 action.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry, can I understand, you retrieved your
8 clinic?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The names and surnames were
10 received from their officers who were supposed to go to Belgrade, and the
11 other information on the time and place and type of wounds were retrieved
12 from the documents of our infirmary, which was located at Semizovac,
13 which lies 10 kilometres away from Vogosca.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND:
15 Q. What did you do with --
16 MS. SUTHERLAND: Sorry, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: That's fine. Go ahead.
18 MS. SUTHERLAND:
19 Q. What did you do with this information?
20 A. I maintained those documents and included them among the other
21 documents which I had to keep as per my duties.
22 Q. What information did you include in the documentation that you
23 kept?
24 A. We had lists of killed in action - that was one document - and
25 those wounded in action, and we maintained records in terms of names,
Page 1932
1 time, place of casualty, and all the other relevant information that was
2 available to us at the time.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Rule 65 ter number 09066 on the
4 screen, please.
5 Q. Mr. Tesic, what is this document?
6 A. This document is a list of killed and missing members of the 72nd
7 Special Brigade.
8 Q. Who authored this document?
9 A. I drafted this document. This is in my handwriting.
10 Q. Does the document state where the person was killed?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. We see reference there to --
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could go to page 2 of the document and
14 page -- yes, both English and B/C/S.
15 Q. -- reference to the word "Blazuj." Am I pronouncing that
16 correctly?
17 A. Yes. Blazuj is referred to as probably the medical centre.
18 Q. Whereabouts is that medical centre?
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Where do we see Blazuj?
20 MS. SUTHERLAND: In the -- column number 7, Your Honour. For the
21 seventh entry, for example -- oh, the fifth entry.
22 Q. Whereabouts is Blazuj medical centre?
23 A. In the vicinity of Rajlovac it is referred to, most probably
24 because of the type of wounds that had to be treated there, and then what
25 it refers to is VMA, or the Army Medical Academy
Page 1933
1 probably transported to Belgrade
2 of combat operations. This refers to the medical facility, at least in
3 my opinion.
4 Q. What does the acronym "VMA" stand for?
5 A. The acronym "VMA" means the Army Medical Academy
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Which he has just told you a few minutes ago at
7 line 19.
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Oh, I'm sorry.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: So -- sorry, if you listen to the witness.
10 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour.
11 Could that document be tendered into evidence?
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: That document is admitted into evidence.
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: Under seal, please.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: May it please be given an exhibit number and be
15 kept under seal.
16 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit P360, under
17 seal.
18 Q. In relation to --
19 MS. SUTHERLAND: I'm sorry, could I have Rule 65 -- sorry. Could
20 I have Rule 65 ter number 08326, please.
21 And, Your Honour, may we go into open session.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into open session.
23 [Open session]
24 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
Page 1934
1 Could we open the curtain, please.
2 THE USHER: Yes.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND:
4 Q. Mr. Tesic, what is this document?
5 A. This is a picture of one of the officers of the 72nd Special
6 Brigade, Captain Galjak, who was killed on the 27th of December, 1993, in
7 the wider area of Vogosca.
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I seek to tender that document into
9 evidence.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
11 please be given an exhibit number.
12 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P361, Your Honours.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: May I have Rule 65 ter number 08319.06. Oh, I'm
15 sorry.
16 Q. Mr. Tesic, this document that you see on the screen in front of
17 you, what is this document?
18 A. This is a document that Popovic Milan, member of the 2nd
19 Motorised Battalion of the Guards Brigade, he submitted to the Yugoslav
20 Army judge advocate general's officer to enjoy some of his entitlements.
21 Q. Where does it say he was wounded?
22 A. It is handwritten that: "My wounding happened as follows:
23 Between two trenches while I was running from one to the other, I was
24 hit ..." the passage that is handwritten.
25 MS. SUTHERLAND: I'm sorry, Your Honour. I wanted a sub-part of
Page 1935
1 this exhibit, ERN number 0614-5558, which is 65 ter number 8913.06.
2 8319.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Sutherland, I requested you to lead your
4 witness before you place your corroborating documents on the screen. You
5 just did that with one document, and now you're going back to what you've
6 been doing all the time.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: I'm sorry, Your Honour. If we take the document
8 off the screen.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: That was the point, yes, seeing the document.
10 MS. SUTHERLAND:
11 Q. Mr. Tesic, do you know where Mr. Popovic was wounded?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Where was that?
14 A. He was wounded -- I'm not sure, somewhere around the 2nd of
15 January, at a position held by the 2nd Motorised Battalion of our brigade
16 in the hills overlooking Vogosca, the immediate hilltops above Vogosca.
17 Q. In relation to Mr. Galjak, do you know where he was wounded?
18 A. Galjak was killed on the occasion of the execution of the
19 Pancir-2 operation in the area of the medical centre.
20 MS. SUTHERLAND: Excuse me, Your Honour. One moment.
21 [Prosecution counsel confer]
22 MS. SUTHERLAND:
23 Q. Mr. Galjak -- sorry. Mr. Tesic, you mentioned that Mr. Galjak
24 was killed on the 22nd of December, 1993; is that correct?
25 A. I did not say the 22nd but the 27th of December, of December
Page 1936
1 1993, when the action took place. But I couldn't be specific, since so
2 much time has elapsed in between.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Rule 65 ter number -- I'm sorry.
4 May we go into closed session.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: What do you want to do with 08319.06 at this point
6 in time? That's what you had called, and you asked that it be removed
7 because of my comments.
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. I would -- I would not be
9 proceeding with that -- anymore with that document.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Now you're asking to go into closed
11 session?
12 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, please.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into closed session.
14 [Closed session]
15 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in closed session.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
17 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we have Rule 65 ter number 09073, page 2
18 of the B/C/S and page 2 of the English.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: I guess you have led the witness on what you are
20 going to deal with in that document?
21 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: You have already done so?
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour.
24 Q. Mr. Tesic, does this document reflect when and how he was --
25 Mr. Galjak was killed?
Page 1937
1 A. Yes. It confirms the date that I mentioned, the 27th of
2 December, 1993, that he was killed on that date.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, may that document be admitted into
4 evidence?
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is it under seal, ma'am?
6 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
8 please be given an exhibit number, under seal.
9 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P362, under seal, Your
10 Honours.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
12 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, there are a number of certificates
13 in relation to this exhibit, and we would seek to tender them all into
14 evidence.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: A number of certificates in relation to this --
16 MS. SUTHERLAND: No, in relation to different soldiers,
17 different-named soldiers. I simply took this witness to one of them.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Go ahead.
19 MS. SUTHERLAND: We can go through them --
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam -- Mr. Lukic.
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Given that it goes for different
22 persons, I don't want to expose my position regarding those persons. In
23 light of my subsequent cross-examination, I believe that it would be
24 proper for the Prosecutor to ask specifically, name by name, whether the
25 witness knows any of those individuals.
Page 1938
1 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. We can go page by page. If
2 we can start at page number 1.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Ma'am, why don't you ask this witness to tell you
4 who else died in this incident before you put your certificates on the
5 screen?
6 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, his --
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: That --
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Sorry.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes?
10 MS. SUTHERLAND: He's already showed us the document that he
11 created, which listed the 8 members that were killed and 15 members that
12 were wounded, and so it's my submission that he's already made us aware
13 of those members that were killed.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: If Your Honour wishes, I can take you back to
16 the document where he listed them. Perhaps if we can bring that up onto
17 the screen.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: It's not necessary. It's not necessary. Thank
19 you. Go ahead.
20 MS. SUTHERLAND:
21 Q. Mr. Tesic, you can see on page 1 - if we can go to page 1 of this
22 document, of this exhibit - is that a person that to your knowledge was
23 killed on the 27th of December, 1993?
24 A. The list that I made, under the heading "List of Members Killed,"
25 as well as the list of members injured, I took from the protocol of the
Page 1939
1 medical centre of our own Guards Brigade, and there were some members of
2 the Guards Brigade who were killed or wounded that I know personally.
3 Others, I didn't know. This certificate was issued for the purposes of
4 exercising certain rights and benefitting from certain entitlements, and
5 I have no particular comment on it.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Lukic, we have already seen the list of the
7 deceased, according to what Madam Sutherland advised us. What's your
8 position? Do you still insist on these people being shown and being
9 testified to personally?
10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Here's the thing: The document 65
11 ter 9073 consists of a number of certificates that are issued, I suppose,
12 to the families of dead army members so that they can benefit from
13 certain rights. Now, this document is issued concerning a person said to
14 have been killed on the 12th of February, 1994. I understand the first
15 document that Mr. Tesic made, a list of persons, but these certificates
16 are issued concerning unit members relating to some other incidents that
17 are not relevant. I believe that this document cannot be introduced
18 through this witness because there has to be a link, as the Trial Chamber
19 demands, between all these documents and this witness. And for the
20 purposes of the Prosecutor, I believe the prior document was quite
21 sufficient. Or, to be more precise, it can be admitted as an MFI, and
22 then after my cross-examination, Your Honours will decide in which way to
23 admit it.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I ask you to be brief in your response and
25 please focus on the question. The question is: To the extent that the
Page 1940
1 Prosecution wants to deal with the deceased and injured who are listed in
2 the list that was made by the witness, do you insist on those individuals
3 being called one by one on the screen? I'm talking about the people on
4 the list.
5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
7 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Concerning the document ...
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Thank you, Your Honour. So can this exhibit be
9 admitted in its -- with the exception of page 4, which deals with someone
10 being killed on another date other than the 27th of December, can all the
11 documents within this exhibit be admitted, please?
12 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have no objection.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Those documents, except for that person who was
14 killed on another date, are admitted into evidence. May they please be
15 given an exhibit number.
16 THE REGISTRAR: For clarification, Your Honours, we're still
17 talking about 65 ter 09073, which was already given an exhibit number,
18 P362, under seal.
19 MS. SUTHERLAND: Thank you.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Right. But then does that exhibit include that
21 person who was killed on a different date? Isn't this person, Mladen
22 Stjepanovic, not that kind of person?
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: He was -- no. He was killed on the 27th of
24 December, Your Honour. It's the person on page 4 of that document I
25 would seek not to tender -- have that, and that is Dragan Stjepanovic, as
Page 1941
1 opposed to Mladen Stjepanovic.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could go to page 2, back to Mr. Galjak.
4 Q. Mr. Tesic, what is your understanding of -- the first paragraph
5 under the word "Certificate," what does this mean? In particular, that
6 he was participating in a national defence operation. What does that
7 mean?
8 A. It's embarrassing to comment on documents written by other
9 people. How they termed it, "got killed in national defence actions" or
10 somehow or other, is something that I cannot explain. All we can see
11 from this is that he was a member of a certain military postbox and that
12 he was involved in combat. We know nothing else.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Except that, according to the English translation,
14 what I see is that he -- they say he participated in the People's Defence
15 operation, not the National Defence operation. I don't know what the
16 B/C/S says. I don't understand B/C/S, but that's what the translation
17 says. Does it make better sense to you if it's the People's Defence
18 operation and not the National Defence operation?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I really couldn't say
20 what the author of this document wanted to say. I can't explain his
21 choice of words or the weight he attached to certain words like
22 "people's" versus "national."
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Listen to my question. Does the document make
24 better sense to you if in the place of the word "national" you read
25 "people's"? And if it doesn't make sense, just say it doesn't make sense
Page 1942
1 still. That's all.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In my book, it's the same.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
4 Yes, Mr. Lukic.
5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I just want to be precise. In the
6 B/C/S version, it says "Narodne Obrane," the People's Defence, and that's
7 probably what the witness has read.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
9 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
10 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, may we move back into open session,
11 please.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber move back into open session.
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: And may we have, again, Exhibit 08319.06,
14 please, with the ERN number --
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Let me just interrupt you, Madam Sutherland.
16 Could the document on the screen please be removed before we go into open
17 session.
18 MS. SUTHERLAND: Would the Rule 65 ter number 0614- --
19 [Open session]
20 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
22 You're asking for?
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: Rule 65 ter number 8319.06, but it's at ERN
24 number 0614-5558.
25 Q. Mr. Tesic, you mentioned that Milan Popovic was wounded on the
Page 1943
1 2nd of January, 1994. What is your understanding, or what does it mean
2 by securing a state border?
3 A. Every country is delimited by its own borders, so the state
4 border is clearly defined and recognised under international regulations.
5 I can't tell you exactly what this certificate means because I didn't
6 write it myself.
7 Q. And I think you mentioned earlier, but where was Milan Popovic
8 wounded?
9 A. Milan Popovic was wounded on the 2nd of January, on a position
10 held by the 2nd Motorised Battalion of the Guards Brigade just above the
11 town of Vogosca, in Republika Srpska.
12 Q. Thank you.
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I would ask that document be
14 admitted.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
16 please be given an exhibit number.
17 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P363, Your Honours.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
19 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I note the time. Did you want to
20 take the break now or in a few moments?
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you going to be long with your next point?
22 MS. SUTHERLAND: I want to move into closed session, so it may be
23 better to take the break now, Your Honour.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you. We'll take the break now and come back
25 at half past 12.00. Court adjourned.
Page 1944
1 --- Recess taken at 11.59 a.m.
2 --- On resuming at 12.30 p.m.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Sutherland.
4 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, can I confirm we're in closed
5 session?
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Could we confirm whether we're in closed session?
7 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session at the moment, Your
8 Honours.
9 MS. SUTHERLAND: May we go into closed session, please, Your
10 Honour.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into closed session.
12 [Closed session]
13 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in closed session.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Exhibit P353 on the screen, please.
16 May we go to page 12 of the Bosnian and page 8 of the English.
17 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is an entry from the 6th of January, 1994, at
18 0630 hours, and it says there that all attacks should be taken with the
19 aim of coming to the plateau Zuc-Orlic. What is the significance of the
20 plateau Zuc?
21 A. From a military point of view, it was the dominant elevation in
22 this area.
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could go to entry number -- excuse me,
24 Your Honour. If we could go to entry number 32, which is B/C/S pages 17
25 to 18 and English page 17.
Page 1945
1 Q. Mr. Tesic, it says at 1500 -- 1700 hours: "Five soldiers and one
2 officer, all from the 2nd Motorised Brigade, arrived from Belgrade
3 What was your understanding in relation to soldiers coming from Belgrade
4 A. Just one correction first. Not 2nd Motorised Brigade but the 2nd
5 motorised battalion. That was a battalion that was located there from
6 mid-December until the dates indicated, and it was normal for a part of
7 officers and troops working under contract to be replaced, and the
8 officers decided that these troops should go to their original unit to
9 resolve certain problems before coming back.
10 Q. How often was this occurring, troops coming and going?
11 A. Rarely. Troops were rare because Vogosca is far from Belgrade
12 and we had to use a roundabout route rather than the road going via
13 Romanija mountain. We went instead via Kadinaj [phoen] village.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to entry number 33? That's B/C/S
15 pages 18 to 19 and English page 19.
16 Q. This is an entry for the 21st of January, 1994, at 2100. Do you
17 see an entry there at 1030 hours: "... soldiers of the 2nd Motorised
18 Battalion that were rotated were sent to Belgrade ..."?
19 A. Yes, that's what's written, but it certainly does not relate to a
20 large number of troops. Those were smaller groups of men, five to eight
21 perhaps even ten. I can't be sure.
22 MS. SUTHERLAND: I've finished with that document for the moment.
23 Q. Mr. Tesic, you earlier said that reporting went up the chain of
24 command. Who drafted documents which were to be sent up the chain of
25 command?
Page 1946
1 A. As a rule, it would be operations officers. The documents were
2 signed by the most senior officer in command there. For the brigade, it
3 would be Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, and the documents were drafted
4 by the operations officer.
5 Q. What, if anything, did you draft?
6 A. I don't know which documents you mean, but the documents you've
7 shown me on the screen were drafted by me. I said it was my handwriting,
8 and I confirmed that I had written them. Other documents must have been
9 written by someone else. If you want to show me some other documents, I
10 can try to indicate who exactly it was.
11 Q. What do you recall drafting documents about?
12 A. The documents that I wrote were, first of all, daily reports or
13 documents drafted perhaps on the orders of the commander of the Guards
14 Brigade that needed to be sent to other units. Such documents would be
15 drafted either by me or other operations officer and then distributed
16 across units; that is, orders would come from commanders of superior
17 units, then ensuing orders would be drafted in our unit and distributed
18 lower down the chain of command.
19 Q. And to your knowledge, were documents that you drafted sent to
20 Belgrade
21 A. Some of the documents you've shown me on the screen were sent to
22 Belgrade
23 or, alternatively, to the chief of staff of the Guards Brigade who was
24 there, but that was done exclusively on the orders of the Commander of
25 the Guards Brigade, Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, who was in Vogosca,
Page 1947
1 so that mutual communication existed and there were some orders that he
2 issued to his own Chief of Staff in Belgrade.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we have Rule 65 ter number 09070 --
4 actually, that's Exhibit P335 -- 355, I'm sorry.
5 Q. Mr. Tesic, did you author this document, the first document on
6 the screen?
7 A. Yes. This is my handwriting, and the signature is that of
8 Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, the commander.
9 Q. And that document's dated the 2nd of January, going to the
10 Special Units Corps command for the attention of the Chief of Staff?
11 A. No. This was sent to the command of the Special Units Corps,
12 their operations centre, in fact. Yes, probably the Chief of Staff.
13 That's written in parenthesis.
14 Q. And what was that reporting?
15 A. As we said earlier, concerning the wounding of a soldier of the
16 2nd Motorised Battalion, this concerns soldier Popovic. It must be
17 "Milan
18 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to the second page, please.
19 Q. Did you author this document?
20 A. Yes. In the absence of the commander, I must have been given
21 authorisation to sign it, and it was sent to the operations centre of the
22 Special Units Corps, again, to the chief of staff. This is just a report
23 that certain officers had arrived and they had become part of the unit,
24 that all activities were according to plan, and there were no losses, as
25 indicated.
Page 1948
1 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to the next document.
2 Q. This is dated -- the previous document was dated the 4th of
3 January. This document is dated the 3rd of January. Did you author this
4 document?
5 A. Yes. This is my handwriting, and it was signed by the Commander,
6 Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic. It was addressed to the command of the
7 Special Units Corps, the operations centre, along the same channel.
8 Q. And what is this reporting?
9 A. The same. Soldier Milos
10 Battalion, that he was transferred to the Military Medical Academy
11 the previous document, it was stated that he was transferred to the
12 Blazuj medical facility. Here, it is reported that he was transferred to
13 the VMA, and we asked for somebody from the 2nd Motorised Brigade command
14 to visit the injured soldier. Under 2, there must have been some
15 problems with the disbursement of payments, and this is what it deals
16 with. Presumably, it was extorted out.
17 Q. If I can take you to the next document, also dated the 5th of
18 January. Did you author this document?
19 A. I drafted this document. This is my handwriting, and the
20 signature is that of the Guards Brigade commander, addressed to the
21 command of the Special Units Corps, to the operations centre, to the
22 chief of staff, and the content is clearly visible here.
23 Q. Yes. And this is a document that I took you to earlier in your
24 testimony, and the next page, also, we discussed earlier in your
25 testimony.
Page 1949
1 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could go to the next page.
2 Q. That's also dated the 5th of January, 1994.
3 A. Yes. This is also written by me, signed by Colonel Panic,
4 Commander of the Special Units Corps, since we were in the same building.
5 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to the next document, please, dated
6 the 14th of January, 1994.
7 Q. Is this document authored by you?
8 A. No. I did not draft this document --
9 Q. Do you know --
10 A. -- so I couldn't comment on it.
11 Q. Do you know who signed the document?
12 A. If you could scroll down a bit. It can't be seen. I believe
13 that it was Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, as far as I can see, Guards
14 Brigade Commander. Yes.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we can go to the next document, please.
16 Q. This document seems to be undated. Did you author this document?
17 A. Yes, I did draft it. It must have been registered in our
18 logbook. This is another document which is maintained at the office. I
19 drafted it, and it is signed by the Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic,
20 Commander, and it's addressed to the command of the Special Units Corps,
21 to the operations officer on duty.
22 Q. And this is in relation to Colonel Panic leaving for Belgrade
23 Chief of Staff Petkovic arriving in Vogosca on the 16th of January -- no,
24 I'm sorry. It doesn't say Vogosca. It says he's arriving. Where was he
25 arriving?
Page 1950
1 A. To Vogosca. So the commander of the Special Units Corps left,
2 and his replacement came here, and the dates are as indicated here.
3 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to the next document, please.
4 Q. Is this document authored by you?
5 A. No, I did not draft this. This is not my handwriting. It is
6 signed by Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, Guards Brigade Commander.
7 Q. And the following document, is this document written by you?
8 A. No, this is not my handwriting. The other things can be seen
9 from the documents.
10 Q. Who signed the document?
11 A. The document was signed by Colonel Ljubisa Stojimirovic, Guards
12 Brigade Commander.
13 Q. And you recognise that as his signature?
14 A. Yes. Yes, yes. This is his signature.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: Then could we go to the last page of the
16 document.
17 Q. Again, is this authored by you?
18 A. No, this is not my handwriting.
19 Q. Do you know who signed this document?
20 A. Signed by Colonel Ljubisa Stojimirovic, addressed to the
21 operations centre of the Special Units Corps of the VJ on the date as
22 indicated.
23 Q. Now, all the documents that we have -- we have just gone through
24 were all sent to the VJ Special Units Corps command; is that correct?
25 The operations centre -- the command and/or the operations centre of the
Page 1951
1 Special Corps Units -- Special Units Corps.
2 A. They were sent to the operations centre of the Special Units
3 Corps. Some of the documents were also sent for the information of the
4 chief of staff.
5 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I tender that document in full.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: It's already admitted into evidence.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: I'm sorry, Your Honour.
8 Q. Mr. Tesic, earlier you said that Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic
9 was your commanding superior officer. What rank did he hold when the
10 formation left Belgrade
11 A. Then he was lieutenant-colonel, and as you can see from the
12 documents that later on - it jogged my memory - he then was promoted to
13 the rank of colonel, through regular procedure.
14 Q. Did you see any paperwork in relation to his promotion when you
15 were in Vogosca?
16 A. I did not know that then, neither did I see those documents. I
17 do not remember that, and the Prosecution lawyer showed me some of those
18 documents, and that jogged my memory, and then I stated that that was
19 correct, yes.
20 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Rule 65 ter number 09046 on the
21 screen, please.
22 Q. Mr. Tesic, is this the document that you were just referring to?
23 A. In the Serbian language, it is a very poor copy. It is very
24 difficult for me to assess whether this is that document.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
Page 1952
1 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think it would be useful for the
2 witness to see a hard copy of the document, which really is much better
3 than this on the screen.
4 MS. SUTHERLAND: I agree, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Usher, would you please show the document to
6 Prosecution counsel before you pass it on to the witness?
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: If you can give that back to Mr. Lukic and give
8 this one to -- unmarked copy. Sorry, give that back to Mr. Lukic. Thank
9 you. And show -- sorry. Mr. Usher, could you show Mr. Lukic that
10 document before you show it to the witness.
11 Q. What is this document?
12 A. This is your typical order of the chief of staff -- chief of the
13 General Staff on the promotion of officers, lieutenant-colonels, into the
14 rank of colonel.
15 Q. Who is the -- and so who is the author of that document?
16 A. It wasn't the chief of the General Staff. He has his staff,
17 personnel, who deal with promotions, drafting documents. It could be the
18 personnel department of the General Staff.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Keep scrolling down, please. Let's see the end of
20 that page in the English. Thank you. Does the document continue onto
21 the next page?
22 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, it's a one-page document. It's a
23 one-page document in B/C/S.
24 Q. Whose name is at the bottom of the document, Mr. Tesic?
25 A. The bottom of the document I read now: "Chief of the General
Page 1953
1 Staff of the Yugoslav Army, Colonel-General Momcilo Perisic," by his own
2 hand.
3 Q. And who is being promoted in this document?
4 A. By this document, from the rank of lieutenant-colonel to the
5 infantry colonel rank, Ljubisa Stojimirovic, Commander of the Guards
6 Motorised Brigade, is being promoted.
7 Q. And when is it effective from?
8 A. It is written here 31st of December, 1993.
9 Q. And what is the date of this document?
10 A. 20th of January, 1994, 20 days after this fact.
11 Q. The translation -- sorry, the transcript says the -- oh, the
12 20th, I'm sorry.
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we can go to the second page of the document
14 in e-court.
15 Q. Mr. Tesic, what is this document?
16 A. The document in the Serbian language has not been changed. Oh,
17 thanks. Could you enlarge it a bit, please?
18 This document comes from the Special Units Corps, Commander Panic
19 Miodrag, informing officers in the field that Colonel --
20 Lieutenant-Colonel Ljubisa Stojimirovic has been promoted to the rank of
21 colonel and extends his congratulations and extends best wishes for his
22 further work.
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I seek to tender that document into
24 evidence.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
Page 1954
1 please be given an exhibit number.
2 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit P364.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
4 MS. SUTHERLAND: And there's no need for that document to be
5 under seal.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: And is there a need for us to still stay in closed
7 session?
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour, because I'm just about to go
9 to another document that is protected.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
11 MS. SUTHERLAND:
12 Q. Before we go to the documents, you mentioned earlier in your
13 testimony, Mr. Tesic, that there were elements of the Guards Brigade
14 units in Bosnia
15 mentioned a moment ago that there was some rotation; is that correct?
16 A. Not rotation. It's replacement of troops within the ranks of the
17 unit that was situated at Vogosca.
18 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Rule 65 ter number 09068 on the
19 screen, please.
20 Q. Looking at this first document, who's the author of this and
21 where was it sent? This document is dated the 15th of January.
22 A. This is not my handwriting. The author -- well, the document was
23 signed by Colonel Panic, Commander of Special Units Corps. It is
24 addressed to the Anti-Aircraft Defence Commander, Lieutenant-Colonel
25 Lesanovic, and I don't see any reason to comment this content since it is
Page 1955
1 self-evident.
2 Q. Do you recognise Mr. -- Colonel Panic's signature?
3 A. Yes, this is his signature.
4 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to the next page, please, that is,
5 page 3 of the English -- oh, I'm sorry.
6 Your Honour, may I tender that document? I'm sorry.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
8 please be given an exhibit number.
9 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P365, Your Honours.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
11 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I please have Exhibit number 09071. And
12 may that be under seal, please, Exhibit P365.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Exhibit P365 is under seal.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go down to the bottom of the document
15 in the B/C/S, please.
16 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is a document dated the 10th of January, 1994
17 Who is the document from, and who is the document to?
18 A. This document, it is true that it bears the date 10th of January.
19 It can't be seen well towards the bottom, but I do believe that it was
20 signed by Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic. It is addressed to the Chief
21 of Brigade Staff, Lieutenant-Colonel Miladinovic. This document deals
22 with regular rotation of men from certain units, a total of 23 to 25 men.
23 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to the next page of the document,
24 please, the next page of this exhibit, which is another document. And
25 this is page 3 of the English and page 2 of the B/C/S.
Page 1956
1 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is a document dated the 11th of January, 1994
2 Who is it from, and who is it to?
3 A. I don't know the handwriting. I did not draft it. The document
4 is sent by Commander Stojimirovic to the Chief of Staff,
5 Lieutenant-Colonel Miladinovic.
6 Q. And is this document -- is this document in relation -- what is
7 this document in relation to as far as troops are concerned?
8 A. Under item 1, it refers to the sending of some officers from the
9 special purpose military police unit to be sent to carry out some of the
10 tasks. Under 2, it discusses the rotation of the Praga crew. But since
11 they were not part of our unit, I cannot comment on that.
12 MS. SUTHERLAND: May we go to the next page of this exhibit, page
13 3 in the B/C/S and page 5 of the English. I'm sorry, page -- it's page 4
14 of the English.
15 If we could go to the next document. I do apologise. It's on
16 page 6 of the B/C/S and -- page 3 of the B/C/S and page 6 of the English.
17 Q. Mr. Tesic, who is that document from and who is it to, and what
18 is it relating to?
19 A. The document is signed by Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic,
20 addressed to the Chief of Brigade Staff, Lieutenant-Colonel Miladinovic,
21 and it concerns the replenishment of our troops.
22 Q. And whereabouts -- from which unit are these troops coming from?
23 A. From the composition of the Guards Brigade, the rear battalion or
24 logistics battalion. That's under item 1, under item 2, also, and item
25 3, from the composition of the corps.
Page 1957
1 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could we go to the next page, please. That's
2 page 4 of the B/C/S and page 7, I think, of the English.
3 Q. That's dated the 18th of January, 1994. Mr. Tesic, again, who's
4 that document from, and who is it going to, and what is it in relation
5 to?
6 A. This is not my handwriting. The document was signed by Commander
7 Lieutenant-Colonel Stojimirovic, Commander of the Guards Brigade, sent to
8 the Chief of Brigade Staff, Lieutenant-Colonel Miladinovic, and concerns
9 the rotation of the same group of people, in effect, but of course, it is
10 up to you to ask questions and for me to answer. It says here that on
11 the 18th of January it is requested for them to be sent, and on the 20th
12 they are supposed to go back, and this specifies, also, the route they
13 should be taking.
14 Q. Do you remember -- we've gone over a number of documents now. Do
15 you remember these troops being rotated in and out?
16 A. Yes, but not in the sense of them being sent and not returning.
17 There were cases where personnel would return to their units after two or
18 three days, after they've resolved some of their issues, and there were
19 cases of the same thing happening in the 2nd Motorised Battalion, which
20 had the most men.
21 Q. You mean if they went back to Belgrade to sort out their
22 problems, after one or two days they would then return to Vogosca?
23 A. Yes, that's one of the methods of replacement. The other would
24 be for personnel to come from Belgrade
25 them to be sent from Vogosca to Belgrade
Page 1958
1 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I would seek to tender this
2 document. There are a number of other documents -- there's a few more
3 pages, which I can take the witness to and get him to comment whether he
4 is familiar with the person that issued this document.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Do you want the entire document tendered?
6 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, I seek to tender the entire document.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
8 please be given an exhibit number.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit P366.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
11 Yes, Madam Sutherland.
12 MS. SUTHERLAND: Under seal, I'm sorry, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: It will be under seal.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, may we go into open session,
15 please.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into open session.
17 [Open session]
18 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
20 Yes, Madam Sutherland.
21 MS. SUTHERLAND: Could I have Rule 65 ter number 08811 on the
22 screen, please.
23 Q. Mr. Tesic, what is this document?
24 A. This is an order issued by the commander addressed to the Chief
25 of Staff of the Special Units Corps. I wouldn't comment the content of
Page 1959
1 this document because I did not draft it.
2 Q. This document's dated the 8th of January, 1994, and it's an order
3 issued by the commander of the Special Units Corps; is that correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. In there, he's ordering an officer from the 63rd Parachute
6 Brigade to supply some rifles with laser sights; is that correct?
7 A. Yes, this is what is written here.
8 Q. Is this -- is this an order that would be in the -- included in
9 the war diary?
10 A. It may be. I didn't maintain the war diary of the Guards
11 Brigade, but this is the Special Units Corps.
12 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I seek to tender that document.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: That document is admitted into evidence. May it
14 please be given an exhibit number.
15 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit P367.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
17 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, may we go into closed session
18 again, please.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into closed session.
20 [Closed session]
21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in closed session.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
23 Yes, Madam Sutherland.
24 Q. Mr. Tesic, you testified earlier that you -- your unit, or you
25 and parts of your unit left on the 30th or 31st of January, 1994; is that
Page 1960
1 correct?
2 A. The unit I was a member of set off to Vogosca on the 30th of
3 December, 1993, from Belgrade
4 Q. Who ordered your return to Belgrade?
5 A. My commander gave me orders, and the order to the Guards Brigade
6 came probably from the superior command. That's the Special Units Corps.
7 MS. SUTHERLAND: May we have P353 on the screen again. That's
8 the war diary. If we could go to entry number 38, which is B/C/S pages
9 21 and 22 and page 23 of the English.
10 Q. Mr. Tesic, is this -- does this make reference to the return of
11 the Guards Brigade, this entry of the 26th of January, 1994?
12 A. This is my handwriting. I made this entry, and the fourth item
13 is what you asked, the beginning of our return to Belgrade.
14 Q. Thank you.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could have Rule 65 ter number 09074 on the
16 screen, please. If we could go to page 3 of the English, which would be
17 page 2 of the B/C/S. Yes.
18 Q. Mr. Tesic, does that order reflect what is referred to in item 38
19 of the war diary? And perhaps you would like to see a --
20 A. The copy is so bad that it doesn't reflect anything.
21 MS. SUTHERLAND: Mr. Usher, if you can just show it to the
22 Defence before you give it to the witness. Sorry. Just one moment.
23 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is a document dated the 26th of January, 1994
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Who's the document from, and who's it going to?
Page 1961
1 A. Probably, because I can't see, it should be the commander of the
2 Special Units Corps, and the document is addressed to Colonel Petkovic,
3 Chief of Staff of the Special Units Corps of the Army of Yugoslavia
4 Q. And is this the order that is referred to in the war diary at
5 entry number 38 in regard to pulling out of the troops?
6 A. I think so.
7 Q. And in the first paragraph, does it say who approved the pull-out
8 of the troops?
9 A. Yes, it says who approved it.
10 Q. At the fourth star, do you see where it says, "Pay attention to
11 the presence of UNPROFOR"?
12 A. That's exactly what it says.
13 Q. What do you understand that to mean?
14 A. I could not comment because I didn't write this. I couldn't
15 really say anything.
16 Q. Do you recall --
17 MS. SUTHERLAND: Just one moment, please, Your Honour.
18 Q. Mr. Tesic, was there a concern in your unit as to UNPROFOR seeing
19 VJ troops in Bosnia
20 A. Well, I didn't feel anything of the kind. But when I was leading
21 the column, the weather was very inclement on Mount Romanija
22 across some of their vehicles on their way from Han Pijesak to Sokolac,
23 and I was going in the other direction towards Belgrade, towards Serbia
24 I didn't notice anything, nor did we have any problems with either
25 column.
Page 1962
1 Q. Were you --
2 A. I don't know what the writer meant to say with this.
3 Q. Was it common knowledge that there were VJ troops in Bosnia
4 A. As far as I and my unit were concerned, we did not hide from
5 anyone, and we couldn't hide even if we wanted to.
6 Q. Given General Milovanovic's concern in relation to the document
7 we looked at earlier --
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
9 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Now the witness is asked to speculate
10 as to what Colonel Milovanovic meant when he was writing the document.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Sutherland?
12 MS. SUTHERLAND: One moment, Your Honour.
13 [Prosecution counsel confer]
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, it's not speculating about
15 anything. The document was quite explicit in what it said. We can bring
16 the document back up on the screen.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Well, your question was incomplete, so I'm not
18 able to say whether it's speculation -- you're inviting speculation or
19 not.
20 Yes, Mr. Lukic.
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think this witness was very
22 explicit. If the Prosecutor wants things to be more precise, maybe she
23 can ask about the particular period, line 7 -- sorry, line 15 on page 67.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: I see. Was that what you were reacting to,
25 Mr. Lukic? Because you stood up when the question at line 18 was being
Page 1963
1 asked, first to General Milovanovic, not line 16.
2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Well, the two are directly linked.
3 But my original objection concerned what General Milovanovic wrote in
4 that document. The witness is asked to explain what General Milovanovic
5 meant in this document and whether it was common knowledge, et cetera.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Then maybe we'll just see what the document says
7 and take what the document says because ...
8 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. If we could have Exhibit P358
9 on the screen, please.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you done with this one at this stage, or are
11 you still going to come back to it, 09074?
12 MS. SUTHERLAND: I wish to come back to it, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND:
15 Q. Mr. Tesic, this is an order by Milovanovic on the 25th of
16 December, 1993. Is he expressly stating in this document that
17 "commanding officers and duty officers have been using the term 'Yugoslav
18 Army' in their regular reports and telephone communications," and that
19 "in order to protect the confidentiality and other measures of activities
20 that we have been undertaking," he forbids the use or any reference in
21 regular and telephone communications to the term "Yugoslav Army units"?
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: We have seen that now. What do you want from the
23 witness?
24 MS. SUTHERLAND:
25 Q. In relation to Milovanovic's express order not to -- well, his
Page 1964
1 express order that the VJ must be kept confidential, was this -- I just
2 put it to you: Was the presence of the VJ a secret?
3 A. What Mr. Milovanovic is writing here and using the term "Army of
4 Yugoslavia
5 take into account that we belonged to someone. We have families. We
6 have friends. We have children. All of them knew that we're there.
7 It's difficult to hide something like that. Whether it was publicised or
8 not, announced or not, I really couldn't say. It's very difficult to
9 hide our presence there. It was difficult to hide the deaths of the
10 members of the 72nd Brigade. It was talked about. It was written in the
11 paper about. There were obituaries published. So I don't really
12 understand the reason for this degree of confidentiality, if we all know
13 that we had been there. That's all I can say.
14 Q. But do you agree that the presence of the VJ in Bosnia was kept a
15 secret by both the VJ command and the VRS?
16 A. Like every document has its own degree of confidentiality, in the
17 same way every activity, every movement, has its own degree of
18 confidentiality. It is up to the superior officer to decide on these
19 matters.
20 Q. You knew that the JNA had to withdraw from Bosnia in May 1992,
21 did you not?
22 A. I wouldn't be sure.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
24 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have the impression that this is
25 cross-examination because the witness is being led to provide a certain
Page 1965
1 answer.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Sutherland.
3 [Prosecution counsel confer]
4 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, we're simply putting our case to
5 the witness.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sure. He's your witness. You are not supposed to
7 cross-examine him. You're supposed to get information from him. He has
8 told you in a very lengthy answer that he does not understand why there's
9 confidentiality because it was known that they were there. People were
10 dying, obituaries were being made, and people were buried, and everything
11 was happening, and he doesn't understand why this confidentiality. And
12 you don't have a case to put to your witness. You have your witness to
13 put your case to the Court through your witness.
14 MS. SUTHERLAND: I'll move on, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Please do.
16 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could go back to 09074, if we could go to
17 the first document, which is on the screen.
18 Q. Now, Mr. Tesic, we were earlier talking about the rotation of
19 troops. This is a document dated the 23rd of January. Who is it signed
20 by?
21 MS. SUTHERLAND: If we could go to the bottom of the document, of
22 the B/C/S.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This document was probably signed
24 by Colonel Branko Petkovic, Chief of Staff of the Special Units Corps. I
25 say "probably" because I didn't often see documents signed by him, and I
Page 1966
1 can't really recognise the signature.
2 MS. SUTHERLAND:
3 Q. And those initials that we see there, "LJS/LJS," what does
4 that -- what does that mean?
5 A. It makes me think of Ljubisa Stojimirovic, and the handwriting is
6 also familiar, but I can't be 100 per cent sure that it's his.
7 Q. And in that document, is he asking for between 40 and 50 soldiers
8 of the 63rd Parachute Brigade to be sent to Vogosca?
9 A. That's what we can read here.
10 Q. And in paragraph 6, does he make reference to the VJ army?
11 A. Item 6? No. He only mentions Colonel Petkovic, if he means the
12 Chief of Staff of the corps.
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: Sorry. If we could go to page 6 of the English
14 translation. It's the -- it's a document dated the 28th of January,
15 1994. It's ERN page 0633-1151.
16 Q. Mr. Tesic, who is this document by -- from, and who's it going
17 to?
18 A. From the heading, we see that it was registered in military
19 postbox 4795, written on the 28th of January, 1994. I can't see well.
20 It's probably to all units, and it concerns the pull-out of units from
21 Vogosca.
22 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I seek to tender that document.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
24 please be given an exhibit number.
25 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P368, Your Honours.
Page 1967
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
2 MS. SUTHERLAND:
3 Q. Mr. Tesic, we can see a reference there to Pancir-2. What is
4 your understanding of that reference there?
5 A. Nothing particular, apart from what we've read, that it's a name
6 for that operation, that activity, whatever they called it. I wasn't
7 involved in that, I didn't write this, and I have nothing specific to say
8 about it.
9 MS. SUTHERLAND: One moment, Your Honour.
10 [Prosecution counsel confer]
11 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I note the time.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is that convenient?
13 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: May we please move into open session.
15 MS. SUTHERLAND: And may Exhibit P368 be put under seal, which
16 was the last exhibit, Your Honour.
17 [Open session]
18 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. And may Exhibit P368 be
20 under seal, please.
21 Sir, once again, just to remind you, we haven't finished with you
22 yet. You'll have to come back tomorrow morning at 9.00. Once again, I'd
23 remind you not to talk about the case with anybody, not even your
24 counsel. Thank you very much.
25 Court adjourned until 9.00 tomorrow morning, Courtroom II. Court
Page 1968
1 adjourned.
2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.46 p.m.
3 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 25th day of
4 November, 2008, at 9.00 a.m.
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