Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 14039

 1                           Wednesday, 22 September 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The witness takes the stand]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good morning to everybody in and around the

 7     courtroom today.  Mr. Registrar, will you please call the case.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Good morning to

 9     everyone in and around the courtroom.  This is case number IT-04-81-T,

10     the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Perisic.  Thank you.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.  Could we have the appearances

12     for the day, starting with the Prosecution.

13             MR. HARMON:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Good morning, counsel.

14     Good morning, everyone in the courtroom.  Mark Harmon, Salvatore Cannata

15     and Carmela Javier for the Prosecution.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Harmon.

17             For the Defence.

18             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours.  Good

19     morning to everyone in the courtroom.  Today General Perisic is

20     represented by Gregor Guy-Smith, Boris Zorko, and myself, Novak Lukic.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Lukic.

22             Good morning, good morning, Mr. Borovic.

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. President.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just to remind you that -- just before we come --

25     I come to you, Mr. Borovic, just to place on the record that we are

Page 14040

 1     sitting pursuant to Rule 15 bis today.  Judge Picard is involved in

 2     another case this morning, might join us a little later.  Just to remind

 3     you, Mr. Borovic, that you are still bound by the declaration that you

 4     made at the beginning of your testimony to tell the truth, the whole

 5     truth, and nothing else but the truth.

 6                           WITNESS:  SINISA BOROVIC [Resumed]

 7                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Did you hear me?

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, that's clear.  Thank you.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much, Mr. Borovic.

11             Mr. Lukic.

12                           Examination by Mr. Lukic:  [Continued]

13        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Borovic.  Just a short

14     question on a topic we've discussed before.  I asked you yesterday

15     regarding the composition of the military office of the federal president

16     of Yugoslavia, I asked you if there were any Legal Officers in that

17     military office.  You said you didn't remember whether there were any

18     lawyers there.  Do you remember Colonel Jovovic, who that was and what he

19     did?

20        A.   I don't remember Colonel Jovovic.

21        Q.   Very well.  Let's move on then to the next area I want to discuss

22     with you, and that's the relationship between General Perisic and the

23     process I will call depoliticisation of the army.  What was your

24     knowledge about General Perisic's views while you were working in the

25     office of the Chief of General Staff about any influence of politics on

Page 14041

 1     the army?

 2        A.   General Perisic and those of us who were working with him in the

 3     inner circle of that office were in favour of depoliticisation and

 4     stripping any influence of political parties on military activities and

 5     offices.

 6        Q.   Was it also a position shared by other generals of the VJ?

 7        A.   Regrettably, no, it was not shared by all the generals of the

 8     Army of Yugoslavia.  Some generals wanted to become close to the party in

 9     power.

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now place on the screen

11     65 ter 01016D.  First of all, could we see the last page in B/C/S and in

12     English to see who the author is.

13        Q.   We see here who wrote this document and what position he occupied

14     at the time.  Are you familiar with the document?

15        A.   Yes, I am.

16        Q.   Ljubisa Velickovic was at that time commander of the air force?

17        A.   Yes, and anti-aircraft defence.

18             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now go back to the first

19     page.

20        Q.   This is a letter addressed to the Chief of the General Staff of

21     the Yugoslav Army and it says:

22             "Prompted by the attendance at the 3rd Congress of the SPS."

23     What was SPS at the time?

24        A.   Socialist Party of Serbia.

25        Q.   And who was its president at the time?

Page 14042

 1        A.   Slobodan Milosevic.

 2        Q.   "Lieutenant-General Blagoje Kovacevic, your deputy, and

 3     Lieutenant-General Dragoljub Ojdanic 1st Army commander, I am hereby

 4     submitting my opinion.  1, one of the fundamental orientations and

 5     characteristics of the Yugoslav Army in the process of the transformation

 6     is its consistent commitment to be free from politics and ideology."

 7             What was the reason for this letter?  What were the underlying

 8     facts because I think the letter is self-explanatory?

 9        A.   We frequently received invitations from all political parties to

10     attend their congresses and ceremonies.  The position of the Chief of the

11     General Staff and all of us with him was that we should not attend any

12     ceremonies organised by political parties or any congresses of parties in

13     power or opposition parties, or if we should attend that our attendance

14     should be spread equally among them but mainly not to attend.

15             That was well known to all the generals, but still

16     General Blagoje Kovacevic and General Dragoljub Ojdanic went to this

17     congress dressed in full uniform and their attendance was recorded by TV

18     crews and that came across as their support to the SPS.

19        Q.   How did General Perisic react to this event and to this letter by

20     General Velickovic?

21        A.   He did not like it, and the letter of General Velickovic just

22     coincided with the views of General Perisic and other high-ranking

23     military officers who wanted the army to remain professional and neutral

24     politically.

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can I have an exhibit number for

Page 14043

 1     document.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

 3     please be given an exhibit number.

 4             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

 5     Exhibit D497.  Thank you.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

 8        Q.   Do you remember the students' protest in end 1996 and early 1997

 9     in Belgrade?

10        A.   I do remember the students' protests and other protest rallies

11     held at that time in Belgrade.  All of them were an expression of

12     dissatisfaction with the authorities ruling Serbia at the time.

13        Q.   More specifically?

14        A.   They were unhappy with the regime of Slobodan Milosevic, that was

15     the one party in power.

16        Q.   In the course of these protests, did students have any contact

17     with the General Staff?  Were you involved in any way personally?

18        A.   At the time I was chief -- sorry, head of the centre of military

19     schools, a title equivalent to head master or dean, and I participated in

20     the talks and in the issuing of public statements or communiques of the

21     students.

22        Q.   Did the students talk to anyone before they were received by you?

23        A.   Before they were received by us, the students' delegation went to

24     the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  We in our office monitored the

25     reactions of the students and the public statements, and they were

Page 14044

 1     extremely unhappy with the way they were received by the Ministry of the

 2     Interior.

 3             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's correction:  It was the Ministry

 4     of the Interior, not foreign affairs.

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When I received them once it was

 6     approved by the Chief of the General Staff, the head of the students'

 7     delegation was not Cedomir Jovanovic, it was another student whose name

 8     eludes me at the moment.  Anyway, I asked who was their main

 9     representative and with whom we should talk to come to a -- some common

10     ground and issue a public joint statement and then I ushered them into

11     the office of the Chief of General Staff to talk to the chief and the

12     collegium of the General Staff.

13             They said Cedomir Jovanovic was authorised to hold talks on their

14     behalf.  I asked him if he wanted to make a draft of a communique so we

15     could harmonise our views on it and sign it together, or if I should do

16     it because I had more experience.  They suggested that I should do it and

17     they would sign it if they agree.

18             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

19        Q.   What was the gist of that gist of that press statement?

20        A.   The gist was that we were supporting the justified demands of the

21     students and that the problems encountered by the students have to be

22     resolved in a democratic way.  We saw them as our military conscripts and

23     we thought it was our responsibility to take care of them, just as we

24     took care of other young people who sympathised with the authorities.

25             Anyway, I ushered them in and they were received by the Chief of

Page 14045

 1     General Staff and all the members of the collegium.  They were given soft

 2     drinks and received and we told them that if they had any objection to

 3     the draft communique, that they should state these objections then and if

 4     not then they should join us before the journalists and issue that press

 5     statement as agreed.

 6             They were very decent.  They made that statement as agreed and

 7     they told the press that they were very happy with the way they were

 8     received by the office of the Chief of General Staff, unlike the Ministry

 9     of the Interior.  And then followed reactions concerning the office of

10     the Chief of General Staff.

11        Q.   I was going to ask you about that.  What were the reactions of

12     the public and the authorities?

13        A.   I was immediately called by General Perisic who said that

14     Milosevic had called him asking that we take back that press statement,

15     but we both agreed that we were not going to do it and we were prepared

16     to take the consequences.

17        Q.   Do you remember how the public reacted?

18        A.   It was a very positive reaction, very favourable to the army.

19     After that, the students asked that their publication called "Student"

20     should publish an interview with me as representative of the office of

21     the Chief of General Staff and head of the centre of military schools on

22     the occasion of its 60th anniversary.  I gave them that contribution,

23     expressing all the views of the office of Chief of General Staff and my

24     own views as head of the centre for military schools.

25        Q.   I'll now move to the last subject we are going to discuss today,

Page 14046

 1     and that's the relationship between General Perisic and

 2     President Milosevic at the time when Milosevic was president of Serbia

 3     and later when he was president of Yugoslavia.  When you left the office

 4     of the Chief of the General Staff and became head of the centre of

 5     military schools, did you continue to keep in touch with General Perisic?

 6        A.   General Perisic took a long time appointing a new Chef de

 7     Cabinet, and every day after my working hours at the centre of military

 8     schools, I would go to the office and help with their work and I had

 9     consultations with General Perisic.  Simultaneously I was connected to

10     the computer network so that I assisted my former deputy Vlajkovic who

11     still remained in the office to deal with anything that was necessary.

12     So I maintained close contact with both the general and his office.

13        Q.   Do you remember while you were still working as Chef de Cabinet

14     and later on, did General Perisic consider the possibility of leaving

15     this position, not resigning because you cannot resign in the army, but

16     abandoning this duty as Chief of General Staff?

17        A.   This was a possibility that was constantly open.  The late

18     General Ratko Milovanovic told me that at the time when I was supposed to

19     begin working as Chef de Cabinet that the Chief of General Staff found it

20     very difficult because there was no understanding for the idea to

21     transform the Yugoslav Army and that he was on the verge of deciding to

22     leave this position and that he believed that we had a real soldier, a

23     humanitarian, somebody who was good in psychology and that we shouldn't

24     change him and bring another general to this position.

25             Later on while I worked as Chef de Cabinet after every

Page 14047

 1     disagreement with President Milosevic, he was in the position in which he

 2     would have preferred to abandon his post and leave this duty to somebody

 3     else.  As far as we could, we supported him but also dissuaded him from

 4     this idea and tried to reinforce his position both within the army and in

 5     public.

 6        Q.   Who do you mean by "we"?

 7        A.   Well, the morale and information service, the generals who were

 8     of the same mind as ourselves.

 9        Q.   Why did you think that he should stay in this post?  Was there

10     anything that you were afraid of?

11        A.   We were afraid of what happened later, namely that generals who

12     went to congresses and who had taken the side would come to be the heads

13     of the army.

14        Q.   Who became the Chief of General Staff after the replacement of

15     General Perisic?

16        A.   Colonel-General Dragoljub Ojdanic was appointed to this position

17     after the replacement of General Perisic.

18        Q.   As for the crisis in Kosovo, was there any difference in

19     positions between General Perisic while he was still the Chief of General

20     Staff and President Milosevic?

21        A.   There were disagreements about how anti-terrorist campaigns

22     should be carried out, how the units should be commanded.  The president

23     increasingly called other generals to talk to them and issue them tasks

24     and I think that for a time he transferred command over the

25     Guards Brigade to someone else and to General Perisic and all of us, this

Page 14048

 1     seemed as if the army was no longer within the system as we envisaged it.

 2     And on every occasion, the general opposed that.

 3        Q.   What was President Milosevic's position at the time, let us just

 4     be more specific?

 5        A.   He was a member of the Supreme Defence Council all along, so as

 6     long as Yugoslavia existed.  He was the president of the republic which

 7     made up 95 per cent of this Yugoslavia.

 8        Q.   At the time in 1998, was he the president of the Federal Republic

 9     of Yugoslavia, if you remember?

10        A.   In 1998, he was the president of the Federal Republic of

11     Yugoslavia.  We were there when he took his oath in the Assembly.

12        Q.   Do you remember whether at this time while he was the Federal

13     Republic of Yugoslavia in 1998, who was a member of the Supreme Defence

14     Council on behalf of Montenegro?

15        A.   I think it was Milo Djukanovic at the time.

16             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] All right.  Let us first have a look

17     at a document.  It's a document from the OTP 65 ter list 8238.  Could we

18     please have a look at the last page of the document so that we could see

19     who the author is.

20        Q.   We can see here that document was drafted on the 23rd of July,

21     1998, and signed by the Chief of General Staff, General Perisic; is that

22     correct?

23        A.   Yes.

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please go back to the

25     first page so that we could see who this document was addressed to.

Page 14049

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You are leaving us all behind, sir.  We are still

 2     being taken to the last page to see who signed it, you were already on

 3     date back at the first page.  We haven't seen who signed it.

 4             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we then please bring back the

 5     last page.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] And now if we could please go back to

 8     the first page.

 9        Q.   We can see that this is a letter addressed to the president of

10     the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Mr. Slobodan Milosevic.  First of

11     all, I will ask you, are you familiar with this letter, General?

12        A.   Well, now that I'm reading it, I remember all the positions

13     expressed in it.  This is what we were opposing.  The personnel policy,

14     violation of the usual chain of command and so on.

15             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the counsel please repeat the page.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic, the interpreter would like you to

17     please repeat the page.

18             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Page 2 in B/C/S, please, and I think

19     it is also page 2 in English that I wish to present.

20        Q.   Can you please read item 1 for yourself.  I do not wish to go

21     into details too much.  And down here it says "Proposed Solution," can

22     you see that, General?

23        A.   I do.

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, it's the last

25     paragraph.  Can we please bring up the document a little bit so that we

Page 14050

 1     can see the bottom part in English.

 2        Q.   Use legally -- let me just read it out, or let me not read it.

 3     What is the gist of this?

 4        A.   That the army be used, the first paragraph is our typical

 5     position that the army should be used legally only for the defence of the

 6     border area, military facilities, units, if they are under attack, and

 7     that all other tasks should be carried out by other organs.

 8             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please just turn to the next

 9     page in English, yes.

10        Q.   Under number 2 here, General, what is it here you just described

11     it a while ago?

12        A.   The Guards Brigade is a unit from the Special Forces corps and is

13     directly subordinated to the Chief of General Staff, and according to the

14     institution and according to the law, there was no single unit that could

15     be separated from the army and then subordinated directly to the

16     president.

17        Q.   And did Milosevic do that?

18        A.   Yes, the president did just that.

19             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please turn to the next

20     page in B/C/S.  It is something that the Trial Chamber can already see

21     under item 3.

22        Q.   And I would ask you to comment on what paragraph 3 contains.

23        A.   The proposal was just not to allow the army to be commanded

24     outside of the military subordination, outside of the knowledge of the

25     General Staff, outside of the command of the 3rd Army which had a forward

Page 14051

 1     command post in Pristina, that levels should not be overlooked when tasks

 2     were issued to units.  So it was with good intentions and in good faith

 3     that the Chief of General Staff propose to the president that this should

 4     be eliminated.  He also reminded him of the rules of service and informed

 5     him that we knew that he was doing it without the knowledge of the Chief

 6     of General Staff and in contravention to the military subordination.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we also now have a look at the

 8     very end of the document and comment on the last paragraph, please.

 9        Q.   Please have a look at the last paragraph, General.

10        A.   I have had a look at it.  That was the last warning to the

11     president that the Chief of General Staff would be uncompromising in

12     preserving the unity of the army and in building the army according to

13     the principles that we had set out, and that he would not participate in

14     violating the principles on which military organisation as such is based.

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I would seek to tender this document

16     into evidence.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  It is admitted.  May it please be given an exhibit

18     number.

19             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

20     Exhibit D498.  Thank you.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

22             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

23        Q.   As we know that the NATO campaign in Kosovo began in March 1999,

24     at the time while General Perisic was still the Chief of General Staff,

25     what was his position about the serious nature of in intervention, that

Page 14052

 1     there would really be a NATO intervention in Kosovo?  So what was the

 2     position taken by General Perisic and other members of the collegium?

 3        A.   Since the month of October 1998, it was clear to us from talks

 4     with international representatives and also on the basis of our own

 5     assessments that NATO would intervene in Kosovo and Metohija unless the

 6     manner of resolving problems in Kosovo were changed, and unless the

 7     president abandoned the policy of opposing the international community.

 8             We believed that the time that was already set for October was

 9     postponed until March and that within this period the change of our

10     position and our policy should take place.  Our position was that

11     President Milosevic had to make a compromise at a certain moment and thus

12     not allow for any bomb or any explosive device to fall on the territory

13     of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia because we believed that this would

14     be the worst possible outcome and result.

15        Q.   Did you tell this to President Milosevic, this position and your

16     assessment?

17        A.   I have to say that I don't know what exactly the Chief of General

18     Staff did later on after he was replaced as a general who remained within

19     the General Staff.  Just before the new year 1999 --

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Can I just stop you there, Mr. Borovic.  The

21     question is:  Did you tell this to President Milosevic, this position and

22     your assessment.  Could you try and answer that, please.

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I wish to answer that.  I wrote

24     this position and addressed it to General Ojdanic in a six-page document,

25     but as I believe that General Ojdanic would not react to this and would

Page 14053

 1     not inform President Milosevic about it, I used the same document but

 2     without the stamp, the military school centre stamps.  I gave it over to

 3     Minister Cerovic who was a member of JUL, that is to say the Yugoslav

 4     Left.  He was a member of the main board of this political party.  He was

 5     very close to President Milosevic and his family.  So I handed it over to

 6     him, asking him to hand it over directly to the president and I told him

 7     that this was our latest position, the position of the people who were --

 8     who made up the last composition of the office of the Chief of General

 9     Staff.  I know that Minister Cerovic did hand this over to President

10     Milosevic, but after that in March the NATO intervention began and this

11     was not accepted.  Later on, I came into possession of this document, a

12     copy of it again.

13             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

14        Q.   Let me ask you now about the replacement.  What was it that

15     happened in November 1998 in Gornji Milanovac?  Were you there?

16        A.   Well, time passed by and the president wasn't changing anything

17     in his policy, in his overall conduct.  The Chief of General Staff

18     organised the visit to the town of Gornji Milanovac, probably because it

19     was his home-town and I was part of that delegation.  After we visited a

20     factory, the chief was supposed to have a conference with the leadership

21     of the municipality and with the prominent businessmen from that area.

22             The Chief of General Staff was unusual bold in his public

23     statements about the problems that he was encountering, the army was

24     encountering, and the state as such, and he even questioned the extent to

25     which such a state was capable of putting up a defence.

Page 14054

 1             And he stated certain views and assessments that we in the

 2     delegation shared but had never expressed publicly.  We were quite taken

 3     aback by this openness of the chief on this occasion.

 4             I knew that there would be ripples after this event and there

 5     would be consequences for the chief and I tried to prevent that.  I

 6     remained with the cameramen and the reporters and I took all this

 7     material from them to stop them from broadcasting, but still I knew there

 8     were many people in that conference hall, also people from the SPS party

 9     and the president would certainly find out.

10             With the rest of the delegation, the Chief of General Staff

11     travelled on to a small place nearby called Vlasenica which is the birth

12     place of a famous poet of ours, and I stayed behind to do some damage

13     control and prevent this material from going out into the public.

14             When we met up again and talked, I told him that it's going to be

15     bad for us, and then we returned to Belgrade where there was already a

16     reception going on in a congress centre.  The president was there with

17     his wife.  We greeted him and then followed the reactions that ultimately

18     he led to the replacement of General Perisic.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Can we just -- so it was General Perisic who was

20     talking at this meeting?

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

22             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

23        Q.   Do you know if General Perisic was appointed to a new position,

24     something to do with the Supreme Defence Council?

25        A.   I know.  He was given a fictional position of advisor to the

Page 14055

 1     federal prime minister for something or other.

 2        Q.   Do you know anything about the views of Milo Djukanovic from

 3     Montenegro, a member of the Supreme Defence Council on the replacement of

 4     General Perisic?

 5        A.   I knew.  I knew from General Perisic and from the Chef de Cabinet

 6     that Milo Djukanovic was firmly against the replacement of

 7     General Perisic and if the constitution had been fully respected, the

 8     decision could not have been made without a consensus, but still

 9     General Perisic was replaced by General Ojdanic and given a new mostly

10     fictive position.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Can you give us the date when this took place?

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can't tell you the date but there

13     was a session of the Supreme Defence Council recording that and you can

14     find the date there.  I saw General Perisic the very next day in the

15     centre for military schools, and I can tell you about it, but I don't

16     know the date.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Are you able to --

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It was in November --

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Of which year?

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Early November, 1998.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.  You may proceed.

22             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I was just about to call up that

23     document, 65 ter 01178D.

24        Q.   We see on the screen this record of the session of the

25     Supreme Defence Council held on 24 November 1998.  We see who was there.

Page 14056

 1     It was chaired by the president of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

 2     Slobodan Milosevic, and there were the president of Serbia,

 3     Milan Milutinovic, and president of Montenegro, Milo Djukanovic.  And

 4     also there was Slavoljub Susic who we mentioned earlier.

 5             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] It's page 3 in B/C/S called

 6     "Personnel Issues."

 7        Q.   This first paragraph said:

 8             "Opening the session, opening the debate on personnel issues in

 9     the Yugoslav Army, President Slobodan Milosevic pointed out the necessity

10     to replace the Chief of General Staff in view of the fact that

11     Lieutenant-General Momcilo Perisic had been occupying that duty for an

12     unusually long time."

13             It seems to be some sort of statement of reasons.  Do you know

14     that this was at the time Milosevic's argument for replacing Perisic, at

15     least officially?

16        A.   This is just pro forma.  He had to say something.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Let's turn the next page in B/C/S.

18        Q.   That's where we see what President Milo Djukanovic of

19     Montenegro --

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] And the next page in English, I

21     suppose.

22        Q.   In this second paragraph of Djukanovic's contribution, it says he

23     is not in favour of changing the current Chief of General Staff of the

24     Yugoslav Army, General Perisic, regardless of his long occupation of that

25     post.  According to President Djukanovic, General Perisic has proven

Page 14057

 1     authority and great experience --

 2             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we move to the next page in

 3     B/C/S.

 4        Q.   -- while he was still Chief of General Staff.  What was the

 5     relationship between General Perisic and the leadership of Montenegro?

 6        A.   At that time the relations were good.  I happen to know that

 7     General Perisic and General Aco Dimitrijevic did not believe at the time

 8     that the leadership of Montenegro had cessationist ambitions.  They did

 9     not want to leave the union with Serbia and the Federation of Yugoslavia.

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]  Let us remain with that page in

11     B/C/S, but in English we need the next page.

12        Q.   It's the paragraph at the top of the English page to see what

13     Milutinovic had to say:

14             "As far as the good international reputation enjoyed by Perisic,

15     one should take that with a grain of salt and not pay too much attention.

16     We will deal with our own affairs, Internal Affairs, as we see best."

17             What kind of international reputation was he talking about?  What

18     was Milutinovic trying to say?

19        A.   In all later contacts with the ministers that we had,

20     General Perisic was very balanced in his views in all he said, and the

21     impression he left was extremely good and that also applied to the

22     contacts with international representatives.  I also accompanied him to

23     one meeting with Geneva.  He was an operational thinker and he always

24     guessed -- Milutinovic always guessed in advance the opinion of

25     President Milosevic and what he wanted.

Page 14058

 1             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we just see the last page in

 2     B/C/S.  It must be the last page in English.

 3        Q.   I won't read the first two paragraphs aloud because they are

 4     long, but please read them to yourself, especially the conclusions.  And

 5     what follows from this position that Milosevic is taking?

 6        A.   I can say that it reflects the general position of Milosevic.  He

 7     would always consult us and he would always seem to agree with us but

 8     then he would decide whatever he pleased as if no consultations had taken

 9     place, and you can see that he did the same here.

10        Q.   At this session we see that Lieutenant-General Dragoljub Ojdanic

11     was appointed as new Chief of the General Staff, and Momcilo Perisic was

12     appointed advisor to the government for defence issues.

13             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] First of all, I'd like to tender this

14     document.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

16     please be given an exhibit number.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

18     Exhibit D499.  Thank you.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

21        Q.   What happened after this cabinet meeting?  What was the reaction

22     of General Perisic?

23        A.   General Perisic came to see me at the centre of military schools.

24     He had prepared a statement for the press which was accurate but too

25     sharp and too dry without any reasons explained.  And I tried to rewrite

Page 14059

 1     it producing another two drafts to address these issues, but the general

 2     refused to change anything and he just said in his statement that he is

 3     leaving his position and he is placing himself at the disposal of the

 4     state.

 5             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] 01130D is the next document we need.

 6        Q.   General Perisic says here:

 7             "The current authorities do not like leaders who are men of

 8     integrity.  I was dismissed from my duties as Chief of the General Staff

 9     of the Yugoslav Army without any consultation in an inappropriate and

10     illegal manner.  I do not accept the made-up position that I was offered

11     in the current federal government.  I remain at the disposal of my army,

12     the state, and the people."

13             Is that the text of his press statement?

14        A.   Yes, it is.

15        Q.   On that day, did anything else happen at the centre for military

16     schools when he came to see you?

17        A.   General Perisic asked me whether I would allow him to address the

18     cadets and the officers undergoing training in that school in any class

19     for him to present his views and he warned me that I might suffer

20     consequences if I allow him to do that.  I answered that he is the Chief

21     of General Staff, he has the right to visit any school and address our

22     students even at the highest-ranking school that we had, and that was the

23     national defence school.

24             General Perisic addressed the national defence school, but I did

25     not attend his address because in principle I never attended anyone's

Page 14060

 1     address to students except when I was monitoring those classes.  So I

 2     told him that he was free to tell them whatever he wished.  After that

 3     there were reactions against me from the minister, the Chief of

 4     General Staff.

 5        Q.   What were these reactions like?

 6        A.   Mostly threatening that I shouldn't have allowed without

 7     consulting the Chief of General Staff and without asking for the approval

 8     of the minister for this to happen, so I was threatened with being

 9     sanctioned.

10        Q.   At the time you were assistant to the Chief of General Staff of

11     the Yugoslav Army for education, training --

12        A.   And also scientific research and publication activities of the

13     Yugoslav Army.

14        Q.   Soon after that you became the chief of the technical

15     administration for the logistics sector of the Yugoslav Army.  So let me

16     now ask you in the military hierarchy, were you promoted or demoted?

17        A.   I was demoted, of course.  I was appointed to a lower duty as

18     compared to the one that I held previously.  So my further promotion was

19     blocked.

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I would seek to tender this document

21     into evidence, Your Honour.  And I think that now we have reached a round

22     number.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  We have reached a round number?

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I was just referring to the number

25     itself.

Page 14061

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  Okay.  The document is admitted into

 2     evidence.  May it please be given an exhibit number.

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

 4     Exhibit D500.  Thank you.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 6             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

 8        Q.   And the last question, General:  Do you know if you had any

 9     contact with General Perisic when he became aware of the indictment of

10     ICTY and do you know what was his position vis-a-vis this indictment?

11        A.   Yes.  I was in touch with the general and I was aware of his

12     position.  He was clear as always, he said, I would not hide from

13     anything or anyone.  Once I receive the summon, I will go there and I

14     will answer before the Court for everything I ever did.

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please see 65 ter 01015D

16     from the Defence 65 ter list.

17        Q.   General, do you know what this is?

18        A.   I know and it's well known to everyone.  This is the statement

19     which General Momcilo Perisic, now a retired general, issued on the

20     occasion of the issuance of the indictment against him in The Hague.

21             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I would seek to tender this document

22     into evidence, Your Honours.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

24     please be given an exhibit number.

25             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

Page 14062

 1     Exhibit D501.  Thank you.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 3             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have finished my direct

 4     examination, General, Professor Borovic, and I wish to thank you.

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Lukic.

 7             Mr. Harmon.

 8             MR. HARMON:  I just need a moment to set up, Your Honour.

 9                           Cross-examination by Mr. Harmon:

10        Q.   Good morning, General Borovic.

11        A.   Good morning, Prosecutor.

12        Q.   This is now my opportunity to ask you some questions about your

13     testimony and I will first of all, I'd like to clarify any ambiguity in

14     your testimony, and that is, the date when you were appointed chief of

15     the cabinet of General Perisic.  At page 13881, line 21, you testified

16     that that was in November of 1994, and at page 13900, line 20, Mr. Lukic,

17     in a question, indicated that you had become the Chef de Cabinet in

18     December of 1994 and you didn't correct that.  So my question to you is,

19     when was the date that you became the Chef de Cabinet?

20        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, the correct date is as I was speaking from

21     memory, Mr. Lukic has my personnel file in which one can see the exact

22     date, so 15 or 20 years later, I cannot remember the exact date, but my

23     CV and my personnel file, which is available, includes the date and I

24     believe that the information provided by Attorney Lukic is the relevant

25     one.

Page 14063

 1        Q.   So you believe you started the position of Chef de Cabinet in

 2     December of 1994?

 3        A.   I think that the information included in my personnel file is

 4     exact.  There you can see when this duty was handed over to me and when I

 5     received it, as far as I can remember it seems to me that it was in

 6     November, but I cannot be certain about the date.

 7        Q.   Unfortunately, General, I don't have your personnel file so I

 8     have to rely on your evidence.

 9             Now, let me clarify another point that you testified about and

10     that is Prosecution Exhibit 2729.  You are testified about that exhibit,

11     testimony is found at page 13999 and starts at line 18, and I just want

12     to get a point of clarification on this exhibit.

13             MR. HARMON:  Could I have this exhibit on the monitor, please.

14        Q.   You see this document, General?  You recall this is a document

15     that is dated the 23rd of June, 1995.  It was sent from the VJ -- office

16     of the VJ General Staff to the Republika Srpska Main Staff to

17     General Mladic, and it deals with 400 men led by Colonel Trku lja to be

18     sent.  What I'm interested in is the next page of the B/C/S of this

19     document.

20             MR. HARMON:  If we could turn to the second page of B/C/S.

21        Q.   Now, this page is --

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Are we on the first page in the English?

23             MR. HARMON:  Yes, Your Honour, we remain on the first page of the

24     English.

25        Q.   This is the second page of the B/C/S version.  First of all, sir,

Page 14064

 1     can you identify the handwriting and can you identify the initials at the

 2     end of this document?

 3        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, I do recognise the handwriting as well as the

 4     initials.

 5        Q.   Whose handwriting is it and whose initials are they?

 6        A.   It's General Perisic's handwriting and these are his initials,

 7     MP.

 8        Q.   Now, if we look it at the -- back to the first page in the

 9     Serbian language text, did you prepare this document, General?

10        A.   It was drafted at the office.  I sent it out to be encrypted and

11     to the Main Staff of the army.  The contents was just copied from the

12     last page.

13        Q.   That was my point that I wanted to clarify.  In other words, the

14     procedure was General Perisic in response to this request drafted in his

15     own hand a response that was then reproduced by a member of your staff

16     and sent on to General Mladic; is that correct?

17        A.   Yes, generally speaking.

18        Q.   Okay.  Now, let me explore with you for a moment the issue of

19     official army notebooks.  Is there a procedure in the VJ, and was there a

20     procedure at the time General Perisic was chief of the VJ General Staff,

21     that an official army notebook would be issued to him?

22        A.   Official army notebooks were documents which each officer of the

23     Yugoslav Army had and so did the Chief of General Staff.  It was a

24     certified notebook with a stamp.

25        Q.   Can you describe the procedure of maintaining the notebook and

Page 14065

 1     the procedure that was implemented when one reached the last page of the

 2     notebook?

 3        A.   It was a working notebook of each officer and chief to be used

 4     for their personal needs and once it was filled out, it would be handed

 5     over to be filed in the archives or it was destroyed depending on the

 6     importance of the level.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Did you say, sir, that this was for their personal

 8     needs?

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, they were recorded as the

10     personal notebooks of officers and I never handed over those that I used

11     to the archives.  They were all destroyed.

12             MR. HARMON:

13        Q.   At the end --

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But my question is:  Did you say they were for

15     personal needs, were they not for official army work?  Didn't you have to

16     record in there what you did for the army?

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that was the purpose, but each

18     person had it to record his own personal duties, so they were not used

19     for their needs outside of the army.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Their personal duties, not personal needs?  You

21     see earlier you were interpreted as saying, this is at page 26, line 22:

22             "It was a working notebook of each officer and chief to be used

23     for the personal needs and once it was filled out, it would be handed

24     over to be filed in the archives or it was destroyed, depending on the

25     importance of the level."

Page 14066

 1             Now, that's why I wanted to find out whether is this for your

 2     personal needs, is this a personal diary, like my own diary that I have

 3     personally, making dates with my friends?

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, meetings would be recorded

 5     but only what related to the army, so the person could jot down his own

 6     diary entries or impressions if there was anything to note, but that was

 7     an official army notebook.  When I said personal needs, I meant that it

 8     was personally used by the person to whom it was issued and it included

 9     information that was of interest for the army, not information from

10     private life.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much.  Mr. Harmon.

12             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I note the time.  I can continue with

13     this topic after the break.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  We'll take the break and come back at quarter to

15     11.00.  Court adjourned.

16                           --- Recess taken at 10.16 a.m.

17                           --- On resuming at 10.45 a.m.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Registrar, may the record show that

19     Judge Picard has now joined the Chamber, and we are no longer sitting

20     pursuant to Rule 15 bis.

21             Mr. Harmon.

22             MR. HARMON:  Thank you, Your Honour.

23        Q.   General, we were talking about Official Note books maintained by

24     General Perisic.  During the time that you were his Chef de Cabinet, did

25     General Perisic in fact have officially-issued VJ notebooks?

Page 14067

 1        A.   General Perisic had an official VJ notebook.  We had two kinds of

 2     notebooks, an official one in peacetime and a war notebook for war time.

 3        Q.   Since there was no war time at the time you were Chef de Cabinet

 4     in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, let me address the type of

 5     notebook that was maintained during peacetime because that's the type we

 6     are talking about, isn't it, sir?

 7        A.   Yes.  I just mentioned that the other document was also part of

 8     the obligatory equipment that every commanding officer had in his

 9     back-pack.

10        Q.   Do you recall approximately how large those notebooks were?  How

11     many pages were contained in one of those notebooks?

12        A.   Those notebooks were of the A5 format.  They had between 100 and

13     200 pages.

14        Q.   When one exhausted the 100 to 200 pages, sir, tell us exactly

15     what the protocol was in respect of the notebook?

16        A.   It was always returned to the organ which had issued it.  That

17     was the general affairs service and the archives, and then their

18     commission would further decide whether it would be kept and archived or

19     destroyed.

20        Q.   At the end of each official notebook when one concluded the 100

21     to 200 pages, was there a certification stamp placed at the end of the

22     notebook before it was turned over to the general affairs people?

23        A.   No, it was not certified by any stamp that that was the end.  The

24     officer in question would simply hand it in.

25        Q.   Okay.  And how many -- to the best of your recollection, sir,

Page 14068

 1     while you were Chef de Cabinet, how many official notebooks did

 2     General Perisic complete?

 3        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, I do not remember how many notebooks he had

 4     filled in but he wrote quite a lot.

 5        Q.   In addition to the official notebook that you've described, did

 6     he keep a personal notebook?

 7        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, as far as I know and as far as I knew

 8     General Perisic, he did not keep any personal notes or a personal diary.

 9        Q.   Were General Perisic's completed VJ notebooks turned over to the

10     general affairs, I think you said general affairs organs --

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Services.

12             MR. HARMON:

13        Q.   -- services?

14             MR. HARMON:  Thank you, Your Honour.

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, we handed them over to the

16     office archives and then the archivists dealt with it further.  I'm not

17     even aware of the exact procedure, I just know that there is a service

18     for documentation which issues these notebooks and takes care of them,

19     but I don't know what happened with these notebooks later.

20             MR. HARMON:

21        Q.   And when you say they were handed over to archivist, can you be

22     more explicit on that.  Which archivist, the army archivist?

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think that the witness already

25     answered, but it has not been recorded this part of the sentence that

Page 14069

 1     Mr. Harmon is now asking him to state.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  If it's not recorded, can we then hear the answer.

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We had the archives within the

 4     office and archivist, so we would hand it over to the office archives and

 5     the archives office kept everything from the office that was supposed to

 6     be kept.  And then what we didn't keep within those archives, they would

 7     hand it over to the army archives which is a more general service, but I

 8     don't know what was the criteria for sending something there because

 9     there was a special service or administration for archiving materials and

10     documentation.

11             MR. HARMON:

12        Q.   You say that your office kept everything from the office.  While

13     you were -- through your term as Chef de Cabinet, were General Perisic's

14     notebooks maintained in your office?

15        A.   It should have been like that, but I don't know exactly whether

16     they were kept at the office or forwarded somewhere else to be kept, but

17     we always handed them over to the office archives.  All the documents

18     that were within the competence of the Chief of General Staff.

19        Q.   Do you have any idea today where those official VJ notebooks of

20     General Perisic's are?

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

22             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think that the witness previously

23     answered.  Let me just see.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Well, if you remember, Mr. Harmon, the witness did

25     say they were handed over, he didn't know happened to them.  I'm not

Page 14070

 1     quite sure whether if he didn't know then he would know today.

 2             MR. HARMON:  It's possible, Your Honour, between the intervening

 3     period of time he may have seen one or more of those notebooks and that's

 4     what I'm attempting to explore with him.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Maybe if you ask him in that sharpened manner.

 6             MR. HARMON:  Yes.

 7        Q.   Since you left your position as the Chef de Cabinet of the VJ

 8     General Staff, have you seen any of General Perisic's notebooks between

 9     the period you left and today?

10        A.   No, Mr. Prosecutor, I never saw any of the documents including

11     General Perisic's notebooks after that.

12        Q.   Thank you.

13             MR. HARMON:  If we could turn to Prosecution Exhibit 2746,

14     please.

15        Q.   Sir, this is a document about which you testified.  It is a

16     document that is dated the 7th of October, 1995.  It is a document from

17     the VRS Main Staff to General Perisic personally requesting ten

18     air-bombs.  You testified yesterday or the day before about the procedure

19     that would be used in terms of dealing with such a request.

20             MR. HARMON:  And if we could turn to page 2 of the English and if

21     we could scroll to the bottom of the Serbian version.

22        Q.   Now, there's two points in respect of this document I'd like to

23     explore with you, sir.  The first is the procedure, and as I understand

24     the procedure, when you received this request, you forwarded this request

25     on to the air force and anti-aircraft defence sector; is that correct?

Page 14071

 1        A.   You are right.

 2        Q.   They would then consider the request and make a determination of

 3     whether or not there was sufficient materiels available to comply with

 4     the request; correct?

 5        A.   That's right.

 6        Q.   Now, I assume, General, that the head of the sector was not the

 7     person who would do the analysis of whether materiels were available.  I

 8     assume, sir, that this manner would be referred to the sector's technical

 9     department for an analysis, and then that analysis would be provided to

10     the head of the sector and the head of the sector would then forward his

11     response to you; is that how it worked?

12        A.   Yes, that is how it worked but not the technical centre, rather

13     the administration who was technically in charge of materiel.

14        Q.   Okay.  Did that have any specific name within the branch of the

15     air force and anti-aircraft defence sector?

16        A.   It was the administration for air force.  A sector has a number

17     of administrations who are tactically in charge, so there was an

18     administration that was in charge of the air force and anti-aircraft

19     defence.

20        Q.   All right.  Now, the other item, just to fully complete an

21     analysis of this document.  You testified yesterday that this document --

22     you were shown this document and then you were shown P951 which was a

23     document referring to the collection of air-bombs from the 608th

24     Logistical Base, but for completeness sake I want to focus on this

25     request specifically since you did not mention who approved the request

Page 14072

 1     for these air-bombs.  Can you tell us who approved this request for

 2     air-bombs?

 3        A.   Well, the Chief of General Staff believed that the request should

 4     be approved and resolved, but he needed feedback from the RV and PVO

 5     sector, and here this feedback is requested whether this can be resolved

 6     and how.  I suppose that after this feedback from the RV and PVO sector

 7     was indeed received.

 8        Q.   If we take a look at the bottom of the Serbian language, there's

 9     some text there which indicates the Chief of the General Staff VJ has

10     approved for the General Staff VRS to be resolved as soon as possible.

11     And he asked that a reply be sent.  I take it, General, that

12     General Perisic would have been the person who approved the provision of

13     these air-bombs to the VRS; is that correct?

14        A.   Well, in this case, the chief accepted the request and approved

15     that this sector should deal with it if possible, that's why I asked for

16     feedback.  Obviously something important was at stake.  He accepted the

17     request and approved that it be resolved.

18        Q.   Okay.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Just a moment.  On page 34, line 10,

21     he -- the witness said he asked this sector to resolve it.

22             MR. HARMON:

23        Q.   So let's get a clarification on your last sentence,

24     General Borovic.  Mr. Lukic is suggesting that the transcript is

25     incorrect.  It currently reads:

Page 14073

 1             "He accepted the request and approved that it be resolved."

 2             Was that what you said or did you say something else?

 3        A.   I said he approved the request and asked the sector for air force

 4     and aircraft -- anti-aircraft defence to resolve it and to provide

 5     feedback because he couldn't deal with it himself because he didn't know

 6     if these assets were available in the sector.

 7        Q.   I don't want to belabour this point, but did he get feedback from

 8     the air force and anti-aircraft defence in respect of this specific

 9     request?

10        A.   I don't know off the cuff, but if he is asking for feedback, then

11     feedback was supposed to come through the office to the chief.  It must

12     be in the documentation.  I don't know whether it's there, but I believe

13     feedback must have come eventually.

14        Q.   And can we conclude that by the provision of these documents and

15     you saw a document yesterday, it was Prosecution Exhibit 951, saying that

16     the air-bombs could be collected from the 608th Logistics Base that after

17     receiving that feedback General Perisic would have approved this request?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Thank you.  I just want to clarify a point that was raised

20     earlier this morning in your evidence.  This morning at page 8 of the

21     LiveNote, Mr. Lukic asked you a question and the question was the

22     following:

23             "Do you remember while you were still working as Chef de Cabinet

24     and later on did General Perisic consider the possibility of leaving this

25     position not resigning" - these are the words I want to focus on -

Page 14074

 1     "because you cannot resign in the army, but abandoning this duty as Chief

 2     of General Staff?"

 3             Now, isn't it a fact, sir, that under Article 107 of the Law on

 4     the Army, that military service of a professional officer or a

 5     non-commissioned officer shall be terminated, and then subpart 6 reads,

 6     at his own request?

 7        A.   It may be terminated at his own request, but a request may also

 8     be made for him to be transferred to another duty within the Army of

 9     Yugoslavia.  There was no such thing as resignation for an officer.

10             MR. HARMON:  I refer, Your Honours, to P197.  It is Article 107

11     and I don't take the matter any further than that, Your Honour.

12        Q.   This morning you testified about General Perisic and elements

13     relating to his resignation.  The Kosovo crisis was a crisis that

14     confronted the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and needed to be addressed

15     both diplomatically, politically, and militarily; isn't that right?

16        A.   That is precisely the nature of the Kosovo crisis.

17        Q.   And, sir, on the 24th of June, 1998, General Perisic requested --

18     made a request for a feasibility and method of engaging -- engagement of

19     peacetime forces in Kosovo; do you recall that?

20        A.   I remember that.

21        Q.   What was Grom 98?

22        A.   I don't remember the Grom 98 assignment.

23        Q.   Let me see if I can refresh your recollection, sir.  On the 28th

24     of July, did General Perisic issue a directive to the commands of the

25     1st, 2nd, 3rd Army, to the air force anti-aircraft defence, to the navy,

Page 14075

 1     and to the special units corps to deploy the Yugoslav Army for securing

 2     the state border with Albania, units and facilities in the territory of

 3     Kosovo and Metohija, and crush the armed rebel forces; do you remember

 4     that directive, sir?

 5        A.   In 1998 I was not aware of those documents.  I was at the centre

 6     of military schools, but it sounds logical to me.

 7        Q.   Okay.

 8        A.   I don't know that document.

 9        Q.   You commented earlier today on the letter that General Perisic

10     addressed to President Milosevic, it was D498, in which he complained

11     about the use of the army.  That letter was dated the 23rd of July, 1998.

12     The directive that was issued by General Perisic was five days later.

13     It's dated the 28th of July, 1998.  Do you accept that, sir?

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] The witness said very positively that

16     he didn't know anything about that directive.  I think this question is

17     going beyond that context and we will ultimately get into pure

18     speculation.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You say -- are you saying if a document is dated

20     the 28th of July, 1998 and another one is dated the 23rd of July, 1998,

21     you are speculating if you answer that whether it came five days later?

22     Is that speculation?  Or is it simple arithmetic?  Listen to the

23     question:  Do you accept that this letter was written five days later?

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Well, at least the witness could be

25     shown that document.  How can he accept anything about it if he hasn't

Page 14076

 1     seen it.  That's the point of my objection.  The witness does not know

 2     anything about one of these documents.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  If the premise is it's dated the 28th of July,

 4     then it's a question of simple arithmetic.

 5             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I did not include this on my

 6     notification to the Defence because it only came up during the direct

 7     examination this morning, so I will, with the Court's permission, I will

 8     ask that this be uploaded into e-court and I will then show it to the

 9     witness so we can confirm the date on this directive.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

11             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I agree.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.  You may proceed, Mr. Harmon.

13             MR. HARMON:

14        Q.   This will be uploaded General, you'll have an opportunity to

15     inspect the document and inspect the date.

16             Sir, the issue, the point of departure between General Perisic

17     and President Milosevic wasn't whether forces, Yugoslav Army forces

18     should be engaged in Kosovo, it was that there had not been a state of

19     war declared, and, therefore, forces could not legally be deployed,

20     wasn't that the point of departure and difference between President

21     Milosevic and General Perisic?

22        A.   It was not the only difference.  Differences started before

23     between them and they had do with the whole concept of engaging the army

24     in Kosovo.  I just said that from that letter that I am aware was sent to

25     Milosevic, I am aware of the views that we had discussed earlier with the

Page 14077

 1     general and he put them down in that letter.  All that is in the letter,

 2     that that was the difference between him and Milosevic.

 3        Q.   So that was a point of difference between Milosevic and

 4     General Perisic was that the army could not legally be engaged in Kosovo

 5     without a declaration of war?

 6        A.   That's one of the points of difference, yes.

 7        Q.   And notwithstanding that difference, General Perisic prepared a

 8     directive by engaging the Yugoslav Army in Kosovo; correct?

 9        A.   I don't know how this developed later, so I can't say whether you

10     are right or not.  I don't have these documents and I haven't seen them

11     in proofing.

12             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, until this is uploaded I'll go to a

13     different subject --

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But before you leave this subject, Mr. Harmon, I

15     would think I would like to go back to the question you asked the witness

16     earlier and I want to read it to you.  You said:

17             "Let me see if I can refresh your recollection, sir.  On the 28th

18     of July, did General Perisic issue a directive to the commands of the

19     1st, 2nd, and 3rd Army, to the air force anti-aircraft defence, to the

20     navy, and to the special units corps to deploy the Yugoslav Army for

21     securing the state border with Albania, units and facilities in the

22     territory of the Kosovo and Metohija and crush the armed rebel forces; do

23     you remember that?"

24             Now, I think we've heard evidence that it is the responsibility

25     of the army to look after the borders, the national borders.  Now, I

Page 14078

 1     don't -- are you not making a distinction between securing the border and

 2     taking an act of aggression in another country?

 3             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I'm merely pointing out that there is a

 4     war -- a plan, a directive, that was issued to the forces, and it is a

 5     plan that is for purposes of obviously securing the territory, including

 6     Kosovo and Metohija.  And that's the point I'm trying to make with this

 7     witness.  The name -- the directive is securing the border.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sure.

 9             MR. HARMON:  I accept that.  But --

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But securing the border -- and that's my question.

11     Are you not making a distinction between securing the border and going to

12     war?

13             MR. HARMON:  I am --

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Because I think you are now asking the witness

15     that General Perisic ordered the army to go to war without a state of war

16     having been declared.

17             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, this directive discusses what each of

18     the armies, each of the subordinate units is required to do in -- let's

19     find the right page.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm only relying on the question you asked

21     earlier, you know, securing the border.

22             MR. HARMON:  Yes, but that's the caption of the document I'm

23     going to show the witness.  The witness can explain it obviously if he

24     sees it and he can better explain it.  But this is a document that

25     discusses the engagement of the Yugoslav forces in respect of the events

Page 14079

 1     in Kosovo.  The point I was trying to make with this witness is that

 2     General Perisic was not opposed to the use of the Yugoslav Army forces in

 3     Kosovo.  He had -- and I raise this with the witness, the point of

 4     difference was a legal difference, a technical difference, that there was

 5     no state of war declared, and therefore the use of the army would be

 6     illegal under those circumstances.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Was Kosovo a territory of former Yugoslavia?

 8             MR. HARMON:  It was part of the former Yugoslavia, yes, it was.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Clear it with the witness.

10             MR. HARMON:  I am sorry, I didn't hear it, Your Honour.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Clear it with the witness.

12             MR. HARMON:

13        Q.   Explain to us sir, the state of Kosovo, what its relationship was

14     to the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?

15        A.   Kosovo was an integral part of the Federal Republic of

16     Yugoslavia.  It was an autonomous province within the Republic of Serbia.

17             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I'll return to this subject when I have

18     this document uploaded and after the break I'll return to this subject.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Fine.

20             MR. HARMON:  Thank you.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

22             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I hate to disrupt, but would I like

23     to suggest, if Mr. Harmon doesn't mind, that the witness be given a copy

24     during the break to look through the entire document because the witness

25     is saying he is not aware of this document, perhaps Mr. Harmon could

Page 14080

 1     agree to let the witness have a copy during the break.

 2             MR. HARMON:  That's a good suggestion, Your Honour.  I have no

 3     objection to it.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 5             MR. HARMON:

 6        Q.   Sir, on the first day of your evidence, you testified about

 7     delegations, military delegations and along with certain political

 8     representatives travelling to Russia and to Hungary.  You discussed P476.

 9             MR. HARMON:  If we could have that on the monitor, please.

10     Defence 476, I'm sorry.  On the monitor, just to refresh your

11     recollection.

12        Q.   This was one of the items that you discussed.  This was a meeting

13     in Russia with the head of the Russian General Staff, General Grachev,

14     and it was attended by the federal minister of defence, Bulatovic.  Did

15     any other representatives of the VJ attend this particular meeting in

16     Russia?

17        A.   Well, this is one of the drafts of this document.  The Chief of

18     the General Staff was present, I was present, I believe the Chef de

19     Cabinet of Pavle Bulatovic was also there, but I'm not sure, and the

20     interpreter.  We had prepared the military aspect of that visit.

21        Q.   You indicated in your testimony that this was in 1995.  Can you

22     recall the month when this was in 1995?

23        A.   I can't remember the month, but winter had just started in

24     Moscow, but it's in the documentation in the reports about the visit.

25     This is just one of the drafts of the agreement bearing no date.  If I

Page 14081

 1     had known the date would be necessary, I would have prepared it.

 2        Q.   Now, I take it when delegations, military delegations went to

 3     foreign countries to conduct business with them, such as the visit to

 4     Russia and the visited to Hungary that you described, these meetings were

 5     attended by the highest-ranking members of the Yugoslav Army; is that

 6     correct?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   Okay.

 9             MR. HARMON:  Could we take a look at D477, please.

10        Q.   This -- while we are waiting for it to come up on the monitor,

11     General, this is the document that describes your February 2nd, 1995,

12     visit to Hungary to meet with the General Staff of the Hungarian army.

13     And we can see in this document in the second full paragraph of the

14     document that the Yugoslav Army delegation was composed of

15     General Perisic, who was the Chief of the General Staff of the Yugoslav

16     Army, Lieutenant-General Mile Mrksic, Lieutenant-General Ljubisa

17     Velickovic, Colonel Branko Krga, yourself, and Lieutenant Jusuf Banjica.

18     Let me just ask you, I think you identified General Ljubisa Velickovic

19     this morning in your testimony.  He was the head of air force and

20     anti-aircraft defence?  Is that correct?  He was the chief of that

21     sector?

22        A.   He was the commander of air force and anti-aircraft defence.

23        Q.   And Branko Krga, was he chief of 2nd administration, in other

24     words, the intelligence administration of the Yugoslav Army?

25        A.   Yes, Mr. Prosecutors.

Page 14082

 1        Q.   An General Mile Mrksic, what was his position on 2nd of February,

 2     1995?

 3        A.   He was assistant of the Chief of General Staff for ground forces.

 4        Q.   And Mile Mrksic, are you aware that approximately two weeks

 5     later, Mile Mrksic was appointed as an advisor to the federal minister of

 6     defence?

 7        A.   I know that but I don't know it in such precise terms.  I know

 8     that he was transferred to the Ministry of Defence.

 9        Q.   And after he went to the federal Ministry of Defence, he was

10     transferred to the -- become the commander of the SVK, wasn't he?

11        A.   That's correct, Prosecutor.

12        Q.   And as a result of his actions, or, perhaps inactions, in the

13     Republika Srpska Krajina, he was retroactively retired from the Yugoslav

14     Army, retroactively to the 30th of December, 1994; isn't that correct?

15        A.   I don't know when he was retroactively retired.  Generals were

16     promoted and retired without the knowledge of the office of the Chief of

17     General Staff.  All that was within the purview of the Supreme Defence

18     Council and it was handled by the assistant for legal and personnel

19     affairs.  I don't know about that line of work.

20        Q.   Why don't we discuss your evidence that you gave in respect of

21     General Perisic meeting with General Mladic.  You testified that

22     General Perisic met at the General Staff three times.  What can you tell

23     us, General, about General Mladic's visits to Perisic before

24     General Perisic assumed the position of chief -- I am sorry, before --

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

Page 14083

 1             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I would appreciate a reference for

 2     the page where the witness stated that Perisic had met Mladic three times

 3     at the General Staff.

 4             MR. HARMON:  That reference is found at page 13928.  It starts at

 5     line 21.

 6        Q.   Now, sir, what can you tell us about General Mladic's visits to

 7     the General Staff prior to your becoming Chef de Cabinet?

 8        A.   I can't say anything about it.  I don't know whether he had come

 9     before that.  I first heard of General Mladic when General Djukic was

10     leaving.  Until then I didn't know anything about it.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Are you on your feet, Mr. Lukic?

12             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

13             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] We had a problem with the transcript

14     over the past few days and I'm now looking for references.  The question

15     of Mr. Harmon was that the witness said that General Perisic had seen

16     General Mladic on the premises of the General Staff three times, and the

17     transcript I have in front of me, page 55, line 9, it's an unrevised

18     transcript and Mr. Harmon will tell me if that's what he meant.  My

19     question was --

20             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I can refer counsel to page 13928.

21     Mr. Lukic asked the question:

22             "Did you have occasion to meet with General Mladic on his visits

23     to the General Staff?"

24             The witness answered:

25             "Perhaps two or three times."

Page 14084

 1             And he describes in his answer, which I will now go into with the

 2     witness, those three occasions.

 3             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] That was the point of my objection.

 4     The witness answered me that he was present at three meetings, not that

 5     General Perisic met with General Mladic three times on the premises of

 6     the General Staff, which is the suggestion made in Mr. Harmon's question.

 7             MR. HARMON:  Then I can clarify that.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.

 9             MR. HARMON:

10        Q.   General, you were asked by Mr. Lukic:

11             "Did you have occasion to meet General Mladic on his visits to

12     the General Staff?"

13             Your answer was:

14             "Perhaps two or three times.  Once in the early days when I just

15     came to the office.  Once when we hosted a meeting at the Supreme Defence

16     Council and a third time after a ceremony promoting cadets after

17     graduation from military schools."

18             That was your answer.  Was General Perisic present at some or all

19     of those three occasions when General Mladic was present at the

20     General Staff of the VJ?

21        A.   Prosecutor, sir, in those two encounters, that first meeting was

22     in the office of General Perisic.  The second meeting when we were

23     attendings the Supreme Defence Council, I just encountered him and

24     General Perisic was there, but at this promotion ceremony for cadets at

25     the centre of military school, General Perisic was not present, I was

Page 14085

 1     present, and I saw Mladic when he visited.

 2        Q.   Thank you.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And was General Perisic present in his own office

 4     on the occasion of the first meeting?

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. President, he was.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 7             Mr. Harmon.

 8             MR. HARMON:

 9        Q.   At the occasion of the graduation ceremony for the cadets --

10     sorry, I withdraw that question.

11             Let me ask you, you are not suggesting, are you, General Borovic,

12     that General Mladic only came to the General Staff offices, to your

13     offices, with General Perisic only two times during the time you were the

14     Chef de Cabinet --

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  In fairness, Mr. Harmon, Mr. Lukic has tried to

16     explain how that question came about.  The question from Mr. Lukic had

17     been:  Have you ever met Mr. Mladic since you were Chef de Cabinet, has

18     he met him two or three times.  So he is not suggesting that Mladic came

19     there two or three times, he is suggesting that he has met him two or

20     three times.  How many times he may have come there, has not been asked

21     yet.  How many times Mladic has come there has not been asked of him yet.

22             MR. HARMON:  I will go there, Your Honour.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

24             MR. HARMON:

25        Q.   Can you tell us, General Borovic, how many times did

Page 14086

 1     General Mladic come to Perisic's offices?

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  To his knowledge.

 3             MR. HARMON:

 4        Q.   To your knowledge, of course.

 5        A.   To my knowledge, he may have visited once a month or less

 6     frequently.  When he was in Belgrade on business, he would visit the

 7     chief, but we did not attend that.  We would just send a vehicle or

 8     refreshments, but I wouldn't see him.  They would usually leave that

 9     office and go some place else to see Milosevic or some other authorities

10     so we didn't know that he would linger or stay around for any longer

11     period or do anything there.  So I knew that he did come around, but we

12     were not visited.  We would just send a vehicle or refreshments from the

13     office.

14        Q.   Did the General Staff maintain a visitors log-book that would

15     reflect the number of visits General Mladic made to General Perisic while

16     you were chief Chef de Cabinet?

17        A.   No, such visitors log-books were not kept at the level of the

18     Chief of General Staff's office, except for official announced visits

19     where a plan of the visit would be made and the time for the visit would

20     be set and so on.  But as for these visits, the kind of ad hoc visits,

21     nothing was recorded.

22        Q.   Did you participate in any of the meetings between

23     General Perisic and General Mladic when he visited your offices?

24        A.   As far as I remember, I only participated in one meeting, but it

25     was not in the office but in the hall where the meetings of the collegium

Page 14087

 1     and the Supreme Defence Council were held.  And in General Perisic's

 2     office, only the first time when I met General Mladic and I explained how

 3     this developed.

 4        Q.   So you are not in a position to assist us in what General Perisic

 5     and General Mladic discussed when General Mladic visited General Perisic,

 6     are you?

 7        A.   No, no, I'm not in a position to testify about that.

 8        Q.   Sir, one of your -- in one of your answers early in your

 9     testimony, you were asked to describe your duties as Chef de Cabinet and

10     you said that one of your duties was to take care of security

11     arrangements for General Perisic in his travels.  Do you recall that

12     testimony?  Found as 13904, lines 12 and 13.

13        A.   Yes, I remember that, Mr. Prosecutor.

14        Q.   The Trial Chamber has received evidence that General Perisic

15     travelled to Bosnia during the war.  What security arrangements did you

16     make for him when he travelled to Bosnia?

17        A.   We planned the security for the Chief of General Staff when he

18     was touring our units and institutions in a planned manner and in the

19     territory of the Republic of Serbia.  That means that the security organ,

20     our security department from the General Staff would contact the security

21     organs in the field, the MUP, and the security organs of the unit in the

22     respective zone of responsibility, and also military traffic police in

23     that zone of responsibility so that the convoy would pass there safely.

24     A security assessment was made but we did not make any assessments for

25     the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina.  We had no elements at our

Page 14088

 1     disposal to do anything of the kind.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

 3             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] What the witness was explaining on

 4     page 49, line 10, I think that the witness said in the territory of the

 5     Republic of Yugoslavia, what he was explaining.

 6             MR. HARMON:

 7        Q.   Let's clarify that.  General, Mr. Lukic has pointed out your

 8     answer that read s as follows, and please correct it if it's improperly

 9     transcribed:

10             "We planned a security for the Chief of the General Staff when he

11     was touring our units and institutions in a planned manner, and in the

12     territory of the Republic of Serbia."

13             That's how your answer is recorded.  Is that an accurate answer

14     or an inaccurate answer?

15        A.   He could be anywhere in the territory of the Federal Republic of

16     Yugoslavia but essentially this is correct.  For example, we did not plan

17     the general security in the territory of Hungary so when he was visiting

18     other countries then the site that was the host would provide security.

19     It was not done by the office because it was not possible.  That would

20     also include Russia or any other country.

21        Q.   Would you co-ordinate with those third party security entities,

22     informing them of General Perisic's estimated date of arrival or time of

23     arrival in order for them to prepare their own security measures?

24        A.   The higher security level which was beyond the competence of our

25     office was secured by the General Staff security administration headed by

Page 14089

 1     General Aco Dimitrijevic, and I'm not familiar with their procedures.

 2        Q.   Are you aware that General Perisic travelled to Bosnia while you

 3     were Chef de Cabinet?

 4        A.   During my tenure as Chef de Cabinet, as far as I remember, I knew

 5     about one General Perisic's visit to Bosnia.

 6        Q.   Were there other visits that you may not know about?

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  How he is going to know that?

 8             MR. HARMON:  Let me lay a foundation for that, sir.

 9        Q.   Was there a log-book kept when General Perisic left the office,

10     and who maintained that log-book?

11        A.   The office did not keep a log-book because the general could also

12     leave another way.  He could just sit in a vehicle and go away.  If

13     anyone kept a log-book when the general was going, then it was the ADC

14     who kept it, but I'm not sure if even the ADC noted such things.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  What is ADC?

16             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think that the witness does not

17     understand your question in English.  ADC.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I don't know what he said in B/C/S.  They can

19     translate it back to him to in B/C/S and tell him what A is in B/C/S and

20     D, and C, and he can answer.  What is ADC, sir?

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, it's aide-de-camp, that's ADC.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

23             Yes, Mr. Harmon.

24             MR. HARMON:

25        Q.   So the aide-de-camp would have that information, not you, in

Page 14090

 1     respect of how many times General Perisic travelled to Bosnia, is that

 2     how I'm to understand your evidence?

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  No, that's not, Mr. Harmon.

 4             MR. HARMON:  Okay.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The answer was:

 6             "The office did not keep a log-book because the general could

 7     also leave another way, he could just sit in a case in a vehicle and go

 8     away.  If anyone kept a log-book when the general was going, then it was

 9     the ADC who kept it, but I'm not sure if even the ADC noted such things."

10             MR. HARMON:  Right.  And my question was:  So it was the

11     aide-de-camp who would have that information and not this witness.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  He is not sure whether they did keep such things.

13             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, my question isn't necessarily limited

14     to a notebook.  The aide-de-camp, with or without a notebook, would be

15     the person who has that information and would know that information.

16     That's my question.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  Let's put it clearly, Mr. Harmon.

18             MR. HARMON:  Okay.

19        Q.   Well, did you -- so, General Borovic, the aide-de-camp of

20     General Perisic would be the person who would have -- would be

21     knowledgeable about the number of trips General Perisic made to Bosnia;

22     correct?

23        A.   Well, the aide-de-camp always knew when the chief was not in his

24     office.  He would either travel with him, but general also went privately

25     away somewhere.  We never asked him where he was going if it was not a

Page 14091

 1     planned trip.  The aide-de-camp was close to him and he could have asked

 2     him, but I didn't know that.  We never even inquired.  I'm just saying

 3     who could have known when he was in the office or not.  Maybe even the

 4     aide-de-camp wouldn't know whether he was going somewhere privately

 5     because it was his own wish, but he may have known when he was not in the

 6     office.  There were unplanned or ad hoc visits and maybe not even the

 7     aide-de-camp was aware of that.

 8        Q.   Who was the aide-de-camp?

 9        A.   During my tenure as Chef de Cabinet a little while before it was

10     another officer but then we brought in Captain Prijovic [phoen].

11        Q.   When was the one occasion that you knew General Perisic went to

12     Bosnia?

13        A.   We knew after his return, or there was some sort of fuss in the

14     Zepa area, something about UNPROFOR, that that was the time when general

15     went there, but I'm not sure what the exact reason for his trip was.

16        Q.   Would that trip have been in 1995, in July of 1995?

17        A.   Well, I do not know the date when he went there but indirectly

18     this could be found when there was this moment when the unit in Zepa was

19     in danger, whether it was a day before that or on that very day, but as I

20     didn't keep any notes about this, I don't know.

21        Q.   Was the visit by General Perisic to Bosnia within a matter of

22     days after the fall of the Srebrenica enclave?

23        A.   Yes, it was in that period.  After the operations around

24     Srebrenica, attacks on protected areas, that was the period when he went

25     there.

Page 14092

 1        Q.   With whom did he meet when he went there?

 2        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, this is something I do not know.  I have never

 3     been there, neither in Han Pijesak nor anywhere else.

 4        Q.   Can you assist us in identifying the trips that General Perisic

 5     made to Croatia to the area of responsibility of the 11th Corps?

 6        A.   I'm only aware of one such visit.  General Perisic toured the

 7     units of the 11th Corps, he reviewed them, he assessed the possibilities

 8     for defence, and the idea was to assess what measures the Army of

 9     Yugoslavia should take on our side at the border, and this is why we

10     increase the level of alert and brought some units to the sector along

11     the left bank of the Danube and in Srem.  That is to say, we closed off

12     the roads leading to Belgrade and that happened after this visit.  So I

13     am aware of this one visit to the Slavonia-Baranja Corps, that is to say

14     the 11th Corps.

15        Q.   Can you give us a date or an approximate date of that visit?

16        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, I did not prepare like that.  I could have looked

17     for these dates somewhere but I cannot remember them now.  I believe that

18     it was still in the fall and that the weather was nice, so perhaps early

19     fall, but I couldn't be more specific about the date.  I do remember this

20     visit.  I remember the measures we took after that but I don't remember

21     the date.

22        Q.   And when you say the fall, would that be 1994 or 1995?

23        A.   I think it was in 1995 because in 1994 it was too early for me, I

24     was still learning how to handle my new duties in the office.

25             MR. HARMON:  Could we have Prosecution Exhibit 2733 on the

Page 14093

 1     monitor, please.

 2        Q.   Yes.  Sir, you testified about this document in your previous

 3     testimony and this is a document, sir, that is dated the 21st of July,

 4     1995.  It is from the VRS Main Staff and it's delivered to

 5     General Perisic or it's directed to General Perisic personally.  And it

 6     bears a number, you'll see in the upper right-hand corner, it is strictly

 7     confidential number 08/26-164.  And this is a document that requests

 8     three medium self-propelled rocket batteries, anti-aircraft defence with

 9     crew and two combat set rockets.  Now, let me just look at the original

10     for a minute.

11             MR. HARMON:  Now, if we can go to -- can we go to the next page

12     in the Serbian language version, please.  Yes.

13        Q.   And on this page, I believe, this is the suggestion -- as you

14     said earlier, this is a suggestion that two medium self-propelled rocket

15     batteries and, let me see, a kit, a combat kit of 18 rockets be provided.

16     Is that the correct interpretation of that note?  I know you testified

17     about it, I don't have it on the top of my head, but is that a correct

18     interpretation of that note?

19        A.   It seems to me that you have not correctly interpreted the

20     document.  If you wish, once again for a precise interpretation, and if

21     you try to provide it, then I will tell you whether it's correct.

22        Q.   Please, I don't speak the language, I will defer to your

23     linguistics skills.  If you kindly interpret that handwritten note you

24     see in the upper right-hand corner of the Serbian language version.

25        A.   First awful, it says there's NUARJ PVO, that means to the chief

Page 14094

 1     of administration of the artillery rocket units of the anti-aircraft

 2     defence.  That's what the abbreviation stands for.  Then it says

 3     "position urgently," and initialed by General Vucinic, who was assistant

 4     for air force and anti-aircraft defence.  That means that

 5     General Mirko Vucinic asked the position of his chief, the chief of

 6     administration of air force and anti-aircraft defence, this is why it

 7     says here "position," and then we finished with the initials below the

 8     stamp.  Then below that it says:

 9             "I propose 2 medium self-propelled rocket batteries, KUB, with

10     three launchers each with 0.5 combat sets of rockets," that's 18 rockets,

11     and the initials "DB."

12             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the witness please repeat the name.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, Mr. Borovic, the interpreters request that

14     you repeat the name.

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Dusan Banjac.  Major-General Dusan

16     Banjac, who was chief of the administration of air force and

17     anti-aircraft defence.

18             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, my colleague noted that the English

19     translation on the monitor is the wrong version.  What I need is 0647

20     -6801 English doc ID.  I apologise, Your Honour.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I was just going to raise the point why is this

22     handwritten part not mentioned in the English.

23             MR. HARMON:  You are correct to do so or anticipating to do so,

24     Your Honour, but I have the wrong document in the English version on and

25     hopefully the correct one will appear.  It is now there.

Page 14095

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Harmon.

 2             MR. HARMON:  So the reference, Your Honour to what the witness

 3     has just testified about, appears under two paragraphs underneath the

 4     word "urgent" in upper case letters.  It says handwritten to the chief of

 5     the anti-aircraft defence.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Anti-aircraft defence artillery and rocket units.

 7             MR. HARMON:  Yes, that was the portion he just referred to, that

 8     handwritten portion.

 9             Now, sir, if I can have the next exhibit because you testified

10     following this particular exhibit, you testified about D482, if we could

11     have that on the monitor, please.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  D482.

13             MR. HARMON:  Yes, that's correct, Your Honour, D482.

14        Q.   This is a document you testified about.  You recall this document

15     is a Main Staff of the VRS -- I am sorry.  This a document and your

16     attention was drawn to the second page of the English and to the second

17     page of the Serbian language version of this document.  And your evidence

18     in respect of this, you were directed to that portion of this document

19     that reads:

20             "At the collegium meeting of 24 July 1995, the NGS," Chief of the

21     General Staff, "decided not to send them until further notice."

22             And you were then asked, sir, what was the decision of the

23     collegium ultimately on this issue.  And you answered at page 13979, line

24     1, you said:  "I know that this did not happen."  Do you recall that

25     testimony, sir?

Page 14096

 1        A.   Maybe I said that I knew, but I remember that this did not happen

 2     because the whole chain of information is concluded here.  The chief said

 3     that that was possible but then the Chief of General Staff said that they

 4     should not be sent because these were two units with crews and if the

 5     Chief of General Staff said that, it was only the Supreme Defence Council

 6     that could decide otherwise and I'm not aware of any such unit ever being

 7     sent there, and we do not have any further document about this.  It would

 8     follow that the unit arrived there, it was received.  This is where this

 9     whole affair ended.

10             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, we may break now.  I'll continue with

11     this line of inquiry later after the break.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You don't want to use your two minutes.

13             MR. HARMON:  I can use my two minutes, Your Honour, I'm happy to

14     do so.  I may go beyond two minutes.  I may go three or four minutes, but

15     I'm happy to do so, Your Honour.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  If you may go beyond two minutes, we'll take a

17     break now and return at half past 12.  Court adjourned.

18                           --- Recess taken at 11.59 a.m.

19                           --- On resuming at 12.30 p.m.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Harmon.

21             MR. HARMON:

22        Q.   General Borovic, when we left for the recess, we were focusing on

23     Defence Exhibit 482 and the passage that said that:

24             "At the collegium meeting on the 24th of July, 1995, the Chief of

25     the General Staff decided not to send them until further notice."

Page 14097

 1             MR. HARMON:  Now, could we have Prosecution Exhibit P2736 on the

 2     monitor, please.

 3        Q.   So this is a document, you can see it -- sorry, this is the

 4     correct English page.  This is a document that's dated the 1st of

 5     September from the VRS Main Staff.  We can see -- can we scroll up on

 6     the -- actually, we can see General Mladic is the person who sent this

 7     document.

 8             MR. HARMON:  If we could scroll to the next page in English to

 9     verify that.

10        Q.   And we see General Mladic's name appears in the upper left-hand

11     corner of this document.

12             MR. HARMON:  If we can go back to the first page in the English

13     then.

14        Q.   This is a letter from General Mladic to General Perisic dated the

15     1st of September, and you will see in the first paragraph, sir, it refers

16     to the confidential letter 08/26-164 of 21 July, 1995 and describes the

17     request.  And you'll see in the last sentence in that first paragraph,

18     General Perisic [sic] says:

19             "We have received only one rocket battery."

20             So in reference to his request that he made in July, he says he

21     has received only one rocket battery.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

23             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I suppose Mr. Harmon made a slip on

24     page 59, line 3, it's General Mladic, actually.  He is the one.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I think you are right.

Page 14098

 1             MR. HARMON:  Yes, that's correct.  Thank you very much,

 2     Mr. Lukic.  And that record should be corrected.

 3        Q.   You'll see the last sentence, this refers to what General Mladic

 4     says, not General Perisic.  "We have received only one rocket battery."

 5             Sir, can you explain this particular reference to the receipt of

 6     this one rocket battery that, is it possible that you were not aware that

 7     a decision had been taken and one of the two recommended or proposed

 8     rocket batteries was in fact sent to General Mladic?

 9        A.   The office did not receive feedback about this and the briefing

10     of the office ended with this first part of the text.  Maybe the sector

11     of air force and anti-aircraft defence received some more information,

12     but we did not.  I didn't know about this.

13        Q.   Okay.  And, if, sir -- that's all right.

14             Let me -- we had discussed briefly and I only want to deal with

15     this briefly, the issue of the directive, you had a chance to see the

16     directive that I gave you, made available to you over the recess.

17             MR. HARMON:  If we could have XN446 on the monitor, please.  I

18     just want to address a couple of points about this.

19        Q.   Sir, I want to focus on just the first page.  We have already

20     seen the letter that General Perisic wrote to President Milosevic, it's

21     D498.  It's dated the 23rd of July, 1998.  This is a document that

22     describes the Grom plan.  It is a directive.  We've discussed the

23     particulars, all of which it can be found in the upper portion of this

24     document, you can see the date of this is the 28th of July, 1998.  And

25     let me ask you in respect of this document, did you review it?

Page 14099

 1        A.   I did right now.

 2        Q.   And did you get an opportunity -- does this refresh your

 3     recollection as to what Grom 98 was?

 4        A.   Mr. Public Prosecutor, I did not -- this document is marked

 5     "state secret," it's the highest degree of confidentiality and you will

 6     see below that it was not delivered to the command of military schools.

 7     I did not see this document before but I understand what this directive

 8     is about.

 9        Q.   Putting aside this directive and relying on your knowledge of

10     General Perisic and his disagreement with President Milosevic,

11     General Perisic was in disagreement with President Milosevic about the

12     deployment of the VJ in combat actions within the territory of the

13     Federal Republic of Yugoslavia without a declaration of war; isn't that

14     correct?

15        A.   You are right as far as the combat use of the units of VJ is

16     concerned, in the territory of Yugoslavia or part of its territory where

17     the army would be engaged militarily.

18        Q.   And so when this --

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I need clarification.  Is the presumption of this

20     question that war is being declared within the territory of the FRY?

21             MR. HARMON:  No, Your Honour.  This question is directed at the

22     following:  In order to engage, as the witness said, to engage the VJ

23     forces in combat activities within the territory --

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  That's my question.

25             MR. HARMON:  -- there has to be a declaration of war.

Page 14100

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  With who?

 2             MR. HARMON:  Well, there has to be a declaration, official

 3     legislative declaration that there's an imminent threat of war or a

 4     threat of war.  That's what triggers the use of the VJ armed forces in

 5     combat activities, whether it's within the territory or without the

 6     territory.

 7        Q.   Is that correct?  Did you understand what I was explaining to

 8     Judge Moloto and do you affirm that, General Borovic?

 9        A.   It was not without the territory of Yugoslavia.  The rest is

10     correct.

11        Q.   Okay?

12             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, does that clarify that or I can try it

13     in a slightly different way?

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Don't try to clarify it.  It's not clear, but

15     don't try to clarify it, just carry on.

16             MR. HARMON:  All right.

17        Q.   Now, in examining this document, General, when you see the words

18     "directive" you will see there are three elements under directive.  The

19     first is to deploy the Yugoslav Army for securing a state a border with

20     Albania.  That's perfectly lawful in peacetime.  The peacetime use of the

21     VJ, isn't it?

22        A.   It is a peacetime use of the VJ, but when the situation on the

23     border changes, and it's no longer peacetime, then the security in depth

24     and along the border is strengthened compared to the peacetime security.

25     It's a different system of protection, up to 5 kilometres behind the

Page 14101

 1     border line is the normal security and in situations that are different,

 2     the system of security changes.

 3        Q.   Okay.  Now, within peacetime, focusing on peacetime, then the VJ

 4     lawfully could defend the facilities in the territory of Kosovo and

 5     Metohija, it could defend its own facilities in peacetime; correct?

 6        A.   Correct.

 7        Q.   And the third element in this directive, which is to crush the

 8     armed rebel forces is an engagement of the VJ in armed conflict with

 9     rebel forces, and that could not be done without a declaration of war or

10     declaration of an imminent state of war; correct?

11        A.   You are correct in part because this directive -- in fact, a

12     directive is the highest document -- the highest ranking document issuing

13     guide-lines to units on how they should act in the following period, but

14     the directives usually say that things will be further elaborated in

15     orders by the General Staff.  This is a general strategic document to

16     alert the units what to expect, and then it's usually stated that a

17     mobilised -- general mobilisation will be declared and general

18     mobilisation is declared when there is an imminent threat of war.

19             This is a document that the General Staff had to issue, otherwise

20     President Milosevic would tell them they didn't know how to do their job.

21     I don't know this document because it was not -- I was not one of the

22     addressees, but there was in the document an indication of when following

23     or follow-up orders would be issued within 20 days or within another

24     period.

25        Q.   And if President Milosevic or if the government had declared a

Page 14102

 1     state of war or an imminent state of war, General Perisic was not -- was

 2     prepared to follow -- I am sorry.  General Perisic was prepared to engage

 3     the VJ forces in combat actions against the armed rebel forces in Kosovo;

 4     is that correct?

 5        A.   It would be in line with the previously prepared directive to

 6     engage forces in anti-terrorist combat in Kosovo.

 7        Q.   My question was slightly different.  My question was, while it

 8     may have been in line with the previously prepared directive,

 9     General Perisic, with a declaration of a state of war or imminent state

10     of war having been passed, he was prepared to use the VJ to crush the

11     armed rebel forces?  He was prepared to engage the VJ in combat

12     activities within Kosovo?

13        A.   Well, that would be -- I don't know exactly, but I think every

14     general, every Chief of General Staff would understand this as an order

15     to use the army in that way because the use of the army is within the

16     purview of the Supreme Defence Council and the General Staff was a staff

17     organ of the Supreme Defence Council at the time.  It was not the will of

18     General Perisic that decided these things.

19        Q.   All right.  I think we've exhausted that topic, General.  Let's

20     move to one of your duties that you described in your direct examination.

21             MR. HARMON:  And I'm referring to page 13904 starting at line 18.

22        Q.   You described as part of your duties as Chef de Cabinet, you said

23     that you would, and I quote:

24             "Issue assignments to units immediately subordinated to the staff

25     command and issue assignments to the Guards Brigade and the special corps

Page 14103

 1     units."

 2             What assignments would you issue to the special -- the Guards

 3     Brigade and the special corps units?

 4        A.   I think I gave a broader answer here of which you quoted an

 5     excerpt.  It was also about military ceremony, receiving foreign

 6     delegations, providing security and facilities used to house delegations.

 7     I have a whole list of duties in the office indicating what kind of

 8     assignments can be given to units.  It's not about combat use of units.

 9     It's, for instance, an assignment to a military commander to send a

10     military orchestra, to send a guards unit to a ceremony.  It was, for

11     instance, an assignment to a military unit to provide security at a

12     certain installation, et cetera.

13        Q.   That's a helpful answer and that clarifies the duty that I was

14     focusing on.

15             Now, at page 13948 at line 19 through 22, you provided the

16     following testimony.  You said:

17             "Our overall position was that the VJ would not get involved in

18     any conflicts outside the borders of Yugoslavia.  The JNA itself had

19     never waged a war outside its own borders and the Army of Yugoslavia

20     wasn't going either."

21             Now, General, did you hear anything about the use of VJ units,

22     special Guards Brigade units, special corps units having been engaged

23     around Sarajevo in 1994 on which occasion approximately eight VJ soldiers

24     lost their lives?  Did you hear anything about that?

25        A.   Yes, I did hear that several soldiers got killed in the area of

Page 14104

 1     Sarajevo, but I heard that much after the event when I came to the office

 2     when there was a discussion about people killed and wounded, and issues

 3     concerning their status, but I didn't know anything in detail.  I was no

 4     longer part of the office.  And even if I had been, I wouldn't have known

 5     about that sort of engagement.  That was something that must have been

 6     decided at a collegium meeting, or I don't know how.  But I do know that

 7     some JNA soldiers died in the area of Sarajevo.

 8        Q.   Well, sir, they were VJ soldiers and not JNA soldier, just so the

 9     record is --

10        A.   Yes, sorry.  You can correct that.

11        Q.   Now, during your tenure as Chef de Cabinet, can you tell us if

12     General Perisic sent special unit members to fight outside the territory

13     of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?

14        A.   Prosecutor, sir, I'm not aware that General Perisic sent units to

15     fight outside the territory of Yugoslavia.

16        Q.   And let me -- I'm going to try to refresh your recollection, sir.

17     Did General Perisic send special 63rd Parachute Brigade to Croatia in

18     August of 1995?

19        A.   I'm not aware and I don't know for what kind of assignment he

20     used the 63rd Parachute Brigade.

21             MR. HARMON:  Could we go into private session, Your Honour.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

23                           [Private session]

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 14105











11 Pages 14105-14112 redacted. Private session.















Page 14113

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)  [Confidentiality partially lifted by order of the Chamber]

 6        Q.   Sir, let me focus now on another document.

 7             MR. HARMON:  It is XN438.  It's for purposes of impeachment.

 8             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] No objection to use the document in

 9     this manner.

10             MR. HARMON:

11        Q.   What I'm interested in is, this is the personnel file, General,

12     just to alert you.  This is the personnel file of Zoran Draskovic, the

13     injured individual identified in the previous exhibit.

14             MR. HARMON:  Could we go to the first page, ERN 0677-9445, and

15     it's page 4 of the B/C/S, just to confirm that whose personnel --

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Can I just check something with you, Mr. Harmon,

17     do you still want to stay in private session?

18             MR. HARMON:  I do because these are documents I'm going to be

19     discussing with the witness are confidential.  And by the way,

20     Your Honour, I failed to ask that this document, if you didn't say so

21     already, should be under seal.  The last exhibit.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  P2930.

23             MR. HARMON:  P2930 should be under seal.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Registrar, thank you so much.  It should be

25     under seal.

Page 14114

 1             MR. HARMON:  No, that's not the page, I'm sorry, could you go to

 2     the next page, please.  Page 4 -- that's not the page either.  Could we

 3     go to the next page.  I am sorry.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  It's going to be a lot of apologies here.  Can I

 5     also ask you something while we are still looking at the page.  What

 6     about XN446, you don't need it under seal?  Or you didn't tender it.

 7             MR. HARMON:  No, I'm reserving my -- yes, Your Honour.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Could the counsel please repeat the page

 9     reference.

10             MR. HARMON:  Give me just a minute, I have to check with my

11     colleague.

12                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

13             MR. HARMON:  Page 4 of the B/C/S.  Okay.  That's the page I'm

14     looking for.  Thank you very much.

15        Q.   And I just want to display this page just so we can see whose

16     personnel file we are dealing with here.  Sir, this is the personnel file

17     of Major Draskovic.  If we could then go to -- the next page I'm

18     interested in is page 7 of the B/C/S, and the English is 0677-9448.

19             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, these documents were just received and

20     so there's no English translation, but I'm going to direct the witness to

21     a portion of this and he can assist us in reading it.

22        Q.   Looking -- I'm interest, General Borovic, in the second -- the

23     penultimate box, there's some text in there, and you will see, can you

24     identify which unit Major Draskovic was a member of?

25        A.   In the penultimate paragraph it says that he was an officer

Page 14115

 1     instructor of parachuting organ in the 63rd Parachute Brigade in the Nis

 2     garrison of the KSJV.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

 4             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I apologise for interrupting

 5     Mr. Harmon in the cross-examination, but there's a procedural issue and I

 6     would ask Mr. Harmon to state his position, because I also received this

 7     document last night from him.  It was disclosed to me then and I see that

 8     it's from the memo of the National Council for the Co-Operation with

 9     ICTY.  The date is the 10th of August 2010, and it was given to ICTY only

10     to prepare for questioning.  So I wonder if Mr. Harmon received the

11     approval of the National Council for Co-operation with ICTY to use this

12     document while presenting evidence?  This is what I saw in the document

13     which was submitted to me.

14             MR. HARMON:  I'm operating on the belief that we have,

15     Your Honour.

16             MR. GUY-SMITH:  If I might, just so the record is clear.  The

17     document says, and I quote:

18             "The mentioned documentation is delivered to you with the remark

19     that until you receive the decision of the government of the Republic of

20     Serbia, you can use it solely for the preparatory activities of the OTP

21     in the above-mentioned case."

22             And then it's signed by the president of the national council.

23     What is occurring right now is not preparatory.  It is active trial work.

24             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I have indicated the position of the

25     Prosecutor's Office.  I'm informed that we can use this document.  So

Page 14116

 1     this is a preliminary letter that came with the conveyance of the

 2     information.  I'm operating on the belief that we have made a further

 3     request and we have received additional information saying we can use

 4     this document.  So that addresses the concern by Mr. Lukic, and if we can

 5     proceed now with this examination, I would be grateful.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Well, before you do that, Mr. Harmon,

 7     Mr. Guy-Smith has just told us that the comment that accompanied this

 8     document said that it can only be used for preparatory work and now you

 9     are saying you've addressed another letter asking whether you can use it.

10     You apparently have not received a response, you are operating on the

11     belief that you are allowed to do so.  These are -- I know Mr. Lukic said

12     this is a procedural issue.  It doesn't appear anywhere in the rules of

13     this Tribunal and I don't know how this Court is expected to rule on this

14     point because these are arrangements between you and the people who

15     provided with you the document, and they have nothing to do with this

16     Chamber.

17             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I'm -- I'm happy to defer this, I will

18     get confirmation of what said to the Court that might mollify my

19     colleagues from the Defence.  I'm happy to return to this subject with

20     these documents very shortly.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Let's hear what Mr. Lukic has got to say on this

22     offer.

23             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I only know that if I acted in this

24     manner, if I had such a document, I would be in great fear about the

25     reaction of the national council, so therefore I would propose that if

Page 14117

 1     Mr. Harmon received this document because he will probably not conclude

 2     his cross-examination today if he receives the approval of the national

 3     council, then he might postpone the use of it until tomorrow.  Otherwise

 4     I just wanted to know this for the record.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  That's what he has just said.

 6             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I agree.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Is that okay?  All right.  Fine.  Defer it, sir,

 8     and go to the next topic, you'll come back to it when you have a

 9     response.

10             MR. HARMON:

11        Q.   General Borovic, you testified -- you gave some evidence about

12     the FRY embargo on the Republika Srpska which we have heard evidence in

13     this court started on the 4th of August, 1994.  It was never formally

14     revoked, so it continued throughout the war and up to the conclusion of

15     the war.  Now, what was the embargo in your view?  What did it entail?

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Do we still need to be in private

18     session?

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Harmon.

20             MR. HARMON:  We can be in public session for this.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into public session.

22                           [Open session]

23             THE REGISTRAR:  We are back in open session, Your Honours.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.  Yes, Mr. Harmon.

25             MR. HARMON:

Page 14118

 1        Q.   Can you answer my question, General?

 2        A.   Well, the embargo implied that assistance to the Army of

 3     Republika Srpska and leadership of Republika Srpska was prohibited.  I

 4     don't know exactly in which areas but probably it is set out somewhere.

 5        Q.   And what was to be the effect of the embargo?

 6        A.   As far as I know, the consequences were serious, especially among

 7     the people because any embargo usually has an impact on the people.  This

 8     is why the patriarch went there, to help the people and so on.

 9        Q.   But --

10             MR. HARMON:  Could we have Prosecution Exhibit P230 on the

11     monitor, please.  I would be interested in the first page of the document

12     being displayed first and then we'll go to another page.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And what do we do with XN438?

14             MR. HARMON:  We defer it, Your Honour, until I come back to --

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  We deferred it.  Okay.

16             MR. HARMON:

17        Q.   Sir, this is the meeting that took place at Dobanovci on the 25th

18     of August, 1995, and I don't recall whether your evidence -- but did you

19     attend this meeting or were you not present, just refresh my

20     recollection?

21        A.   I did not attend any such meeting, but I came to this meeting on

22     the 29th of August, 1995, because there were many meetings held within a

23     short time-period in Dobanovci.

24             MR. HARMON:  Could we turn to the English page 11, and page 14 of

25     the Serbian language text.

Page 14119

 1        Q.   Let me just direct your attention, General, to a portion of this

 2     text that is in the English language version it is the large -- the last

 3     portion of the first full paragraph and it should be the top portion of

 4     the paragraph in your language, General.  And in this case, let me read

 5     this:  It says:

 6             "Bishop Irinej advocated the tacit lifting of the Drina River

 7     blockade.  President Milosevic responded that the blockade was merely a

 8     formality and that aid flows daily."

 9             So according to President Milosevic at this conference that was

10     attending by a number of people --

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] What Mr. Harmon read is something I

13     cannot find in the B/C/S version.  Yes, I found it, so I apologise.  I'm

14     sorry.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.  Yes, Mr. Harmon.

16             MR. HARMON:  I was distracted by -- I have a response from the

17     previous objections raised by Defence counsel.  We are authorised to use

18     this.  I would like to continue that examination and come back to this

19     document at a later time.  So if we could return to where I was with --

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  XN438.

21             MR. HARMON:  Yes, thank you.  If we can have -- let me just find

22     my page reference on this document.  We'll have to go back into private

23     session, as well.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

25     [Private session]  [Confidentiality lifted by order of the Chamber]

Page 14120

1             MR. HARMON:  I believe, General, that we had established --

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just a second, Mr. Harmon.

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  We are in private session, Your Honours.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 5             Yes, Mr. Harmon.

 6             MR. HARMON:

 7        Q.   I believe, General, when we left off with this personnel file of

 8     Major Draskovic, we had just identified that he was a member of the

 9     63rd Parachute Brigade, and that was a portion of the special units corps

10     that was under the authority of General Perisic; isn't that correct?

11        A.   You are right.

12        Q.   Okay.

13             MR. HARMON:  Now, could we go to pages 57 and 58 -- 57 in B/C/S

14     and the English is 0677-9498.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Harmon, this is a document for which you said

16     you don't have the English translation?

17             MR. HARMON:  That's correct, Your Honour.  I will direct the

18     witness to a identify.

19        Q.   This is the page I asked for and, General Borovic, first of all,

20     can you identify what this says and what this is and whose name and

21     signature appears at the bottom?

22        A.   This is a memo which is sent to the command of the special units

23     corps for further activities and this is the signature of

24     Colonel Vlajkovic, the 14th of March, 1996.

25             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the witness please repeat the capacity of

Page 14121

 1     the said Mr. Vlajkovic.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Borovic, the interpreters didn't hear what you

 3     said the capacity of Mr. Vlajkovic was.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He was my deputy.  And he was in

 5     charge of operations staff and general affairs as well as plans.  And

 6     here it's signed for the chief.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Borovic, was he your deputy as at the 14th of

 8     March, 1996?  And if so, where, and what was your capacity at the time?

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was the chief but I was not

10     always at the office.  I was attending meetings with my chief, with other

11     authorities, and my deputy was authorised to receive this and to deal

12     with it.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Borovic, my question was what was -- what was

14     your capacity?  The interpreter didn't hear the capacity of this witness

15     and you just said he was your deputy.  You have had so many posts, I

16     don't know on the 14th of March, 1996, what post you held in which this

17     man was your deputy.

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Assistant -- sorry, deputy Chef de

19     Cabinet of the General Staff of the VJ.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

21             MR. HARMON:  Could we go to the next page, please.

22        Q.   Sir, you have not seen this document so I want to give you a

23     moment to review this document, to read it.  Please let me know when you

24     have finished reading.

25        A.   I've read it.

Page 14122

 1        Q.   Sir, this appears to be two separate people communicating.  The

 2     first part, the top part is the upper left-hand corner, does that

 3     identify the person who was responsible for the first part of this

 4     communication?  Is this the letter from Zoran Draskovic?

 5        A.   Well, judging by the signature and the heading in the corner,

 6     yes, it is from Zoran Draskovic.

 7        Q.   Can you read the second paragraph of his letter.  Actually, who

 8     is he addressing this letter to, sir?

 9        A.   This request is addressed to the commander of the Special Unit

10     Corps of the VJ.

11        Q.   Can you read the second paragraph.

12        A.   "Since I am a young officer born in 1965 and that I have a great

13     desire and motivation to remain a professional" --

14        Q.   Sir, I'm sorry, the paragraph above that.  Starts --

15        A.   "On the 5th of August, 1995, in the course of carrying out a

16     combat assignment, I stepped on an anti-infantry mine resulting in

17     serious injury to my lower right leg.  At the military medical academy, I

18     had an amputation and postoperative rehabilitation passed without any

19     problems.  Four months later in November 1995, I received a prosthesis

20     for my leg which enables me to move without hindrance."

21        Q.   And is this -- is the essence of his request that he wishes to

22     remain in the Yugoslav Army notwithstanding his injuries?

23        A.   That's the second paragraph that I started reading.

24        Q.   Okay.  But I don't want you to read it, I want you to either

25     affirm or not affirm that what Major Draskovic is asking for is to remain

Page 14123

 1     the VJ?

 2        A.   Correct.

 3        Q.   Now, there's a second portion of this.  It appears to be signed

 4     by the commander General-Major Miodrag Panic, and he was a commander of

 5     what?  Was he the commander of the Special Forces?

 6        A.   The Special Unit Corps.

 7        Q.   What is the essence of his communication that is addressed to the

 8     General Staff of -- sorry, addressed to the Yugoslav General Staff to the

 9     cabinet.  What is his letter say?  Can you summarise it for us?

10        A.   He says it's a well-trained officer who is capable of keeping a

11     desk officer job, and he asked that a post be found for him in the Army

12     of Yugoslavia.

13             MR. HARMON:  Now, could we go to the top of this document, upper

14     right-hand corner.

15        Q.   You'll see some handwriting there and some initials.  Can you,

16     first of all, identify the initials that appear at the bottom of the

17     handwritten text?

18        A.   I can.  You mean initials?

19        Q.   Yes?

20        A.   It's not easy.  MP could be Miodrag Panic or Momcilo Perisic, but

21     I think this handwriting is more like that of Miodrag Panic than

22     Mr. Perisic.

23        Q.   What does the text, the handwritten text say?

24        A.   It says personnel service, to prepare an answer to be signed by

25     the assistant Chief of the General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia for

Page 14124

 1     recruitment, mobilisation, and something else, for the cabinet of the

 2     General Staff -- of the Chief of General Staff of the VJ, and move this

 3     task from the sector and place it before the personnel service.

 4        Q.   So we can conclude from looking at these documents that I've

 5     looked at, particularly the last two pages, that this communication went

 6     to the cabinet of the Chief of General Staff?

 7        A.   We can conclude that, and we can conclude that my deputy passed

 8     it on to the personnel service as indicated in the upper part of the

 9     page.

10             MR. HARMON:  Could this exhibit be given an exhibit number under

11     seal, please.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And marked for identification?

13             MR. HARMON:  And marked for identification, obviously,

14     Your Honour, marked for identification until it's properly translated.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  It's admitted into evidence under seal and may it

16     please be marked for identification.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

18     Exhibit P2931 under seal marked for identification.  Thank you.

19             MR. HARMON:

20        Q.   Finally, sir --

21             MR. HARMON:  Let me just call up XN439.  Again it's used for

22     purposes of impeachment.  This is a personnel file of the second

23     individual identified in the Splav report?

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I don't object to this document being

Page 14125

 1     used to impeach.

 2             MR. HARMON:  I'd be interested in the first page of -- I mean

 3     page 4 of the B/C/S.

 4        Q.   This is merely to identify --  can you identify the name of this

 5     individual, sir?  This is the first page of a personnel file.

 6        A.   The name of the person is Lieutenant Slavko Belojica.

 7        Q.   And there's also a name Borisav?

 8        A.   Borisav is probably the father's name, although you can't see it.

 9             MR. HARMON:  Okay.  I wanted to identify the entity which he was

10     a member.  If we could turn to -- start with page 7 of the Serbian

11     language version.

12        Q.   I'd like you, sir, the last set of the boxes, can you identify in

13     which unit he was serving in, looks like the 30th of March, 1993?

14        A.   He was commander of the 2nd platoon of the 1st Parachute

15     Reconnaissance Company in the 63rd Parachute Brigade, the Nis garrison.

16     He had a rank of lieutenant and his pay grade is indicated.

17             MR. HARMON:  Can we turn to the next page, please.

18        Q.   And cast a glance on that, sir, and do these entries that you see

19     on this page confirm that in 1994, that he was also a member of the

20     63rd Parachute Brigade?

21        A.   In that period on the 10th of September, 1994, and on the other

22     date indicated here, he was a member of the 63rd Parachute Brigade.

23             MR. HARMON:  Could this be given an exhibit number under seal and

24     also MFI'd, Your Honour.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  It's admitted.  May it please be given an exhibit

Page 14126

 1     number under seal and MFI'd.

 2             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

 3     Exhibit P2932 marked for identification under seal.  Thank you.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 5             MR. HARMON:

 6        Q.   Sir, this is a fairly dramatic situation, wasn't it, when two

 7     serving Yugoslav Army officers who were attached to the VJ General Staff

 8     both suffered severe injuries in combat in Croatia, do you still assert

 9     that you knew nothing about this event and the injuries that occurred to

10     these two Yugoslav Army officers?

11        A.   I'm saying I did not know anything about these injuries.

12        Q.   And you didn't know anything about the operation itself?

13        A.   And I did not know anything about an operation under that name.

14        Q.   Okay.  Well, let's be perfectly clear, under that name.  Did you

15     know about an operation that involved sending VJ soldiers into Croatia

16     regardless of the name of the operation?

17        A.   I did not know but I just said that because you mentioned the

18     name of the operation.  I thought we were not sending units there.  We

19     were an administrative body in the cabinet.  We did not know much about

20     combat use.  I didn't know.  I wasn't even present at places where this

21     was discussed.

22             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, we can go into public session, and I've

23     concluded, looking at the time, of course, for the day.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into open session.

25                           [Open session]

Page 14127

 1             THE REGISTRAR:  We are back in open session, Your Honours.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 3             Mr. Borovic, once again, I remind you that you may not discuss

 4     the case with anybody and least of all members of the Defence team.  We

 5     stand adjourned to tomorrow, 9.00 in the morning, Courtroom I.  Court

 6     adjourned.

 7                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.47 p.m.

 8                           to be reconvened on Thursday, the 23rd day of

 9                           September, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.