Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 14128

 1                           Thursday, 23 September 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The witness entered court]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good morning to everybody in and around the

 7     courtroom.

 8             Mr. Registrar, will you please call the case.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Good morning to

10     everyone in and around the courtroom.  This is case number IT-04-81-T,

11     the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Perisic.  Thank you.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

13             Could we have the appearances, starting with the Prosecution.

14             MR. HARMON:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Good morning, counsel.

15     Appearing for the Prosecution today, Mark Harmon, Salvatore Cannata, and

16     Carmela Javier.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

18             And for the Defence.

19             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours.  Good

20     morning to everyone in the courtroom.  Mr. Perisic is represented today

21     by Mr. Gregor Guy-Smith, Mr. Boris Zorko, and myself, Novak Lukic.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

23             Good morning, Mr. Borovic.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. President.  Good

25     morning to everyone.

Page 14129

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... just to remind

 2     you, once again, that you are still bound by the declaration you made at

 3     the beginning of your testimony to tell the truth, the whole truth, and

 4     nothing else but the truth.  Is that okay?

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Understood, Mr. President.

 6                           WITNESS: SINISA BOROVIC [Resumed]

 7                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 9             Mr. Harmon.

10             MR. HARMON:  Thank you, Your Honour.

11             MR. LUKIC:  Excuse me.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, sir, Mr. Borovic?

13             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Mr. President, with your leave, I

14     remembered last night the answer to a question that was asked of me both

15     by the Defence and the Prosecution, namely, whether the military office

16     of the president of the republic had a legal officer, and I remembered

17     that in fact the military office of the president had a lawyer on its

18     staff.  That's what I wanted to add, if it's of any interest to the

19     proceedings.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Borovic.  Are you able to

21     tell us the name of the lawyer at the time that you were ...

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think that lawyer was

23     Colonel Milivoj Jovic or Jovovic, and we got a young lawyer by the name

24     of Kisic.  And I continued to run into that young lawyer later on at the

25     Ministry of Defence.  He was promoted and came to the administration.

Page 14130

 1     And when I was thinking about various lawyers, I couldn't remember

 2     exactly where I knew this Kisic from and where this Milivoj Jovic went

 3     on, because he was close to retirement, and I think I remember now he

 4     joined the military office of the president of the republic.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Borovic.

 6             Mr. Harmon.

 7                           Cross-examination by Mr. Harmon: [Continued]

 8        Q.   Good morning, General Borovic.

 9        A.   Good morning, Mr. Harmon.

10        Q.   Sir, you testified in your earlier evidence about

11     Prosecution Exhibit 2519.

12             MR. HARMON:  If I could have 2519 on the monitor, please.

13        Q.   Sir, this is a document that is dated the 25th of April, 1995,

14     and it is from General Mladic to the General Staff, attention of

15     General Perisic.  And I want to examine this request for personnel a

16     little bit.  I want to direct your attention to the second item,

17     Lieutenant-Colonel Radoslav Jankovic, and you can see in this request

18     that General Mladic is requesting that Lieutenant-Colonel Jankovic be

19     sent to the VRS Main Staff Intelligence Administration.  You can see that

20     in the first part of the letter.

21             And this identifies, does it not, that

22     Lieutenant-Colonel Radoslav Jankovic was currently on duty in the

23     VJ General Staff 2nd Administration?

24        A.   That's correct, according to the document.

25        Q.   And the 2nd Administration was the Intelligence Administration of

Page 14131

 1     the VJ; correct?

 2        A.   Yes, sir.

 3        Q.   Now, from this letter we can see that Colonel Jankovic, at

 4     General Perisic's request, had been temporarily re-assigned to the

 5     VRS Main Staff Intelligence Administration, where he had spent two

 6     months.  Do you see that?

 7        A.   Yes, I can see that's written in the second paragraph.

 8        Q.   Okay.

 9             MR. HARMON:  So now if we could turn to Mr. Jankovic's personnel

10     file, which is P269 -- 2696, please.  And what I'm interested in is,

11     first of all, looking at the first page to confirm this is Mr. Jankovic's

12     personnel file.  We could go to e-court English translation -- there it

13     is in B/C/S.  I see it's already on the monitor.  And the --

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And did you say it's P2696?

15             MR. HARMON:  P2696, Your Honour, yes.

16        Q.   So we can see from this document this is the personnel file of --

17     first page of Radoslav Jankovic, colonel; correct?

18        A.   Correct.

19             MR. HARMON:  Could we turn to English e-court in the same exhibit

20     0422-2995 ET, page 2; and in the B/C/S if we could turn to page 8.

21        Q.   Now, this is part of Colonel Jankovic's personnel file, and we

22     can see his career trajectory.  And if we -- if you take a look,

23     General Borovic, you'll see an entry.  It is --

24             MR. HARMON:  Can we go -- scroll all the way -- thank you.  Could

25     we scroll a little bit over the document so we can see the dates.

Page 14132

 1        Q.   Now, do you see, sir, that the fifth box from --

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, sorry, Mr. Harmon.  It doesn't look like

 3     we've got the same page in the English.

 4             MR. HARMON:  We have part of the same page, Your Honour.  You'll

 5     see there's a reference, Your Honour, at the penultimate entry on the

 6     English --

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Well --

 8             MR. HARMON: -- there's a reference.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Penultimate?

10             MR. HARMON:  Penultimate entry, there's a reference to the

11     temporary deploy -- temporarily deployed to the 30th Personnel Centre.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You're right, okay.

13             MR. HARMON:  And then there's some data entered to the right of

14     that.  You can find that entry in the B/C/S page.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay, okay.

16             MR. HARMON:  Five entries up.

17        Q.   Do you see this entry, General Borovic, that says temporarily

18     deployed to the 30th Personnel Centre --

19        A.   I can see that.

20        Q.   Okay.  It says -- let me just read the entry so it's in the

21     record.

22             "Temporarily deployed to the 30th KC," which means personnel

23     centre, "of the General Staff of the VJ garrison Belgrade."

24             It gives a date of 02/06/95.  And PSU 200-70 with a date that

25     follows that, that reflects that that was pursuant to an order of the

Page 14133

 1     personnel administration of the VJ General Staff; is that correct?

 2        A.   Correct.

 3        Q.   Now, if we look just above the entries that I referred to, we can

 4     see a number of references to -- in the second column, to

 5     Colonel Jankovic's career.  You'll see that he's in the

 6     2nd Administration, which is the intelligence administration, prior to

 7     coming to -- prior to being temporarily deployed to the

 8     30th Personnel Centre; correct?

 9        A.   Well, according to the personnel file, yes.

10        Q.   Okay.

11             MR. HARMON:  Could I have -- I want to take a look at a film.

12        Q.   We're going to look at a film, General.  And this is a film with

13     Colonel Jankovic, General Mladic, and others taken in Srebrenica on the

14     12th of July.  This is Prosecution Exhibit 437.

15             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, for the record, for counsel,

16     Colonel Jankovic was identified in P437 as the person seated to the left

17     of General Mladic in this film.  That transcript citation reference is

18     6568, starting at line 15.  So if we could then show this film.

19        Q.   I would like you to pay attention to this film, General.

20                           [Video-clip played]

21             MR. HARMON:  Stop the film, please.

22                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

23             MR. HARMON:  We now have the same film, the proper segment of the

24     film I wanted to exhibit to this witness.

25             Can you play that, please.  This is started at 1:35:40,

Page 14134

 1     Your Honour.

 2                           [Video-clip played]

 3             MR. HARMON:  For the record, we've ended the film at 1:41:11.5.

 4        Q.   Now, General Borovic, was the take-over of the Srebrenica enclave

 5     by the VRS something that would have had security implications for the

 6     FRY, for the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?

 7        A.   Well, I believe it had, at the international level, adverse

 8     consequences for the FRY security because it was our commitment at the

 9     time that there should be no further escalation of tensions with the

10     international community as regards the enclaves, but I'm seeing this for

11     the first time.  I didn't know these people.  The cabinet just sent a

12     letter to the personnel administration to deal with this.  I thought it

13     was going to have adverse consequences and it later turned out it did.

14        Q.   Sir, my question really was answered in part but not fully.  The

15     question I asked you was:  Would the take-over - not did the take-over

16     but would the take-over - of a UN-protected safe area of Srebrenica by

17     the VRS, would that be something that would have had or would have

18     security implications for the VRS -- for the Federal Republic of

19     Yugoslavia?

20        A.   Well, I was not evaluating the situation then.  I was only a

21     chef de cabinet.  And now I believe that any combat operations close to

22     our border have security implications on our country too.

23        Q.   Sir, I know -- I didn't ask you whether you were evaluating the

24     situation then.  You're a general in the Yugoslav Army.  You were fully

25     aware that the Srebrenica enclave was a protected safe area.  You were

Page 14135

 1     aware, were you not, that if there was a take-over of the safe area, that

 2     that could result in NATO intervention within a kilometre or two of your

 3     state border?  So did it -- at the time the VRS took over the Srebrenica

 4     enclave, did the take-over have, in your opinion, security

 5     implications -- at the time it was taken over, did it have security

 6     implications for the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?

 7        A.   Prosecutor, sir, at that time I was not a general, I was not

 8     involved in this, I didn't even know that the enclave of Srebrenica would

 9     be attacked.  Now in hindsight I believe it was wrong and that NATO

10     bombing did ensue and that it did have negative consequences on the

11     security of our country.

12        Q.   So are you unable to tell us on the 13th of July -- I'm sorry,

13     when the enclave was taken over on the 11th of July, 1995, by the VRS,

14     are you able to give us your opinion, sir, on that date whether that

15     event would have had security implications for the Federal Republic of

16     Yugoslavia?

17        A.   I cannot answer a question phrased like that.

18        Q.   All right.  Well, let's -- let me say -- let me ask you this,

19     sir:  You were aware that the Srebrenica enclave was a safe area that was

20     under United Nations protection, you were aware that it was a safe area;

21     is that correct?

22        A.   We were aware.

23        Q.   And would, in your opinion, sir, on the 12th and 13th of July,

24     would the forcible displacement of 25- to 35.000 inhabitants of the

25     Srebrenica enclave have possible security implications for the

Page 14136

 1     Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?

 2        A.   At that time, I did not know anything about these events.  I can

 3     say now that it would have security implications and that it was wrong,

 4     but at that time we had no information about Srebrenica.  None of this

 5     information reached the cabinet.

 6        Q.   Sir, would the murder of thousands of Bosnian Muslim inhabitants

 7     from Srebrenica have security implications for the Federal Republic of

 8     Yugoslavia?

 9             You can answer that yes or no.  And if you have an explanation

10     you'd like to give after you answer the question, please proceed.

11        A.   I can answer yes.  It would have negative implications.

12        Q.   Sir, would you expect that a VJ intelligence officer who was

13     assigned to the VRS Intelligence Administration on a temporary assignment

14     to keep the -- his superior unit informed of the operations that were

15     occurring within the Srebrenica theatre of operations?

16        A.   I would not expect that, sir, because he was resubordinated to

17     another command to which he was sent, and he had no obligation to keep

18     his original command informed apart from regular reporting along the

19     chain of command at another level and which has no immediate contact with

20     us.

21        Q.   Would you expect a VJ intelligence officer who was assigned to

22     the VRS to inform his superior officers that there were events taking

23     place in Srebrenica that had security implications on the

24     Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

Page 14137

 1             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think this is the same question

 2     that was already asked by the witness [as interpreted] rephrased.  He

 3     said why he didn't expect that officer to do that, because he was

 4     resubordinated to another unit; and now Mr. Harmon is trying to get in a

 5     different way an answer different to what he originally didn't like.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Harmon.

 7             MR. HARMON:  I'll rephrase the question, Your Honour.

 8        Q.   General Borovic, would it, in your opinion, have been responsible

 9     of a -- for a VJ officer who was aware of events that could have

10     significant repercussions for the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia to

11     remain silent about those events?

12        A.   Prosecutor, sir, an officer sent from another administration I

13     think no longer had any connection with the chief of the

14     2nd Administration.  He was connected with the intelligence authorities

15     in the Army of Republika Srpska.  It would not have been proper if he had

16     come and been questioned about it.  He had no longer any connection with

17     the chief of the 2nd Administration.

18        Q.   Let me give you a hypothetical situation, General Borovic.  Let

19     me put you in the shoes of Colonel Jankovic.  Let's assume that you were

20     in Srebrenica on the 12th and the 13th of July, 1995, and you, sir, were

21     aware that the Srebrenica enclave had been taken over; you were aware

22     that 25- to 35.000 Muslim inhabitants from the enclave were forcibly

23     displaced; you were aware that thousands of Muslim inhabitants from that

24     enclave had been murdered.  Would you -- and you were aware that those

25     events had security implications for your country.  Would you have

Page 14138

 1     remained silent?

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

 3             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have an objection to this phrasing.

 4     But in order to state my objection, I would not like Mr. Borovic to be

 5     present in the courtroom.  I don't want to influence him.  Could he step

 6     out for a moment?

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Borovic, you are -- could you please excuse us

 8     for a moment.

 9                           [The witness stands down]

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

11             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] A question put in this way -- well,

12     first of all, the witness is being asked to speculate about something

13     that is in the intelligence domain.  That is why I object to it.  We're

14     asking the witness to provide his opinion on exclusively intelligence

15     matters and he has never been an intelligence officer.

16             Second of all, if his opinion is sought about the security of the

17     FRY, then Mr. Harmon needs to put that question correctly in terms of

18     facts.  If we are talking about a temporary transfer of 20- to 30.000

19     Muslims who were then taken to the territory of Tuzla and went further on

20     to the FRY and if the murders took place in a period following the

21     13th of July, then he needs to tell the witness what information he has

22     and whether the intelligence organ he is referring to had such

23     information about the murders which took place in the area of Srebrenica.

24                           [Defence counsel confer]

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] As suggested to me by

Page 14139

 1     Mr. Harmon [as interpreted], this is asking the same question, ask --

 2     requiring of the witness to provide the same opinion about something that

 3     was put to him the first time around anyhow.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Harmon.

 5             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, first of all, let me make a correction

 6     in the transcript at page 11, line 21:  I did not make any suggestions to

 7     Mr. Lukic.  I believe that was Mr. Guy-Smith who made a suggestion to

 8     Mr. Lukic.

 9             In respect of the objection, this witness is -- we've heard lots

10     of testimony in this court about intelligence, intelligence reporting

11     from the different armies within the armies.  This witness has given

12     evidence that, frankly, is quite surprising, that there was no -- that he

13     would not expect this VJ intelligence officer to give information to the

14     VJ Intelligence Administration about what were exceptionally dramatic and

15     dangerous events for the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.  And I am

16     testing him with the question that I asked.  And I put it in a

17     hypothetical situation as to whether he, as a general officer of the

18     Yugoslav Army in the same position, would have remained silent.

19             And I think that's a perfectly proper question, Your Honour.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The question is:  Where does it go, actually?

21     What does the answer to that question -- where does it take you to?

22             MR. HARMON:  It may take me, Your Honour, to his credibility,

23     directly to his credibility, in answering the question in the way that he

24     has answered the previous question.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  You're seeking opinion evidence from this

Page 14140

 1     witness.  One, he's not an expert.  I think for me I would expect you to

 2     confront him with evidence that shows that Jankovic did report, if indeed

 3     he did report, and say:  Well, you're saying he was not -- he was

 4     resubordinated, but here it is, he sent reports to you guys.

 5             But a hypothetical question, I don't know what it does to the

 6     guilt or innocence of the accused.

 7             MR. HARMON:  As I say, Your Honour --

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  It can only be his opinion.  It's not fact.

 9             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I'm offering the question first of all

10     on the issue of his credibility.  Two -- one, he's an experienced officer

11     of the highest rank in the Yugoslav Army.  He has testified -- as I say,

12     we have heard evidence that there was normal reporting.  He's also told

13     us that he isn't in the intelligence administration, which I can accept.

14     He's told us a lot of things that he wasn't and that he wasn't aware of.

15     But we can draw an inference, Your Honour, from the evidence that we've

16     heard and the allegiance that one would have naturally as a general, as a

17     high-ranking officer, to alert superiors about an imminent and

18     potential -- potentially serious risk to his country.

19             And so I am putting it -- I'm testing his answer that there was

20     no need to do this with his duty as an officer to do precisely that.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I don't -- well, I still don't see how you test a

22     man's credibility on a hypothetical situation.  The way you test a man's

23     credibility is to confront him with facts that are contrary to what he

24     says.  But I don't know -- if he answers:  Well, I would have reported or

25     I would not have reported, how does that affect his credibility?  If

Page 14141

 1     putting a hypothetical situation to him you ask his opinion, whether his

 2     opinion is different from what actually took place on the ground has

 3     nothing to do with the price of butter.

 4             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I do not believe, under the

 5     circumstances, that silence and inaction was what was logical, what was

 6     required of the duty of an officer who had been temporarily sent.  And

 7     this officer who has testified has told this Chamber that essentially he

 8     had no duty or responsibility.  I don't know his exact words.  But he had

 9     no obligation --

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  He was resubordinated to another --

11             MR. HARMON:  He was resubordinated.  I think that's an evasive

12     answer, Your Honour.  And I think that the duty of a Yugoslav Army

13     officer, under those circumstances, is precisely the opposite.

14             If there is an imminent danger to his country, he has to report

15     it.  And this officer is an experienced officer, and I'm saying:  Okay,

16     let me put you, General Borovic, in Colonel Jankovic's shoes and see what

17     you would have done.  And if he -- if he says:  I would have done nothing

18     because that's what -- when one is resubordinated there's an absolute

19     cement wall of communication with my unit where I'm going to return, then

20     that's his answer.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And then?

22             MR. HARMON:  And then I think his answer as to whether or not

23     Colonel Jankovic was silent and had no commitment or obligation to inform

24     his superiors is questionable, frankly, and it goes directly to his

25     credibility.  And I think I'm entitled to question -- examine his answers

Page 14142

 1     and test the strength of his answers and the credibility of his answers.

 2     And I think the hypothetical question that I posed to him is a perfectly

 3     proper question to ask him under the circumstances.

 4             I defer to the Court, Your Honour.

 5                           [Trial Chamber confers]

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  The Trial Chamber is going to rule.  By

 7     majority, Moloto dissenting, the question will be allowed.

 8             MR. HARMON:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You may re-call the witness.

10                           [The witness takes the stand]

11             MR. HARMON:

12        Q.   General Borovic, I will repeat my question to you.

13             Let me put you in the shoes of Colonel Jankovic.  Let's assume

14     that you were in Srebrenica on the 12th and 13th of July, 1995, and you,

15     sir, were aware that the Srebrenica enclave had been taken over.  You

16     were aware that 25- to 35.000 Muslim inhabitants from the enclave were

17     forcibly displaced.  You were aware that thousands of Muslim inhabitants

18     from that enclave had been murdered.  Would you -- and you were aware of

19     those events -- that those events had security implications for your

20     country.  Would you have remained silent?

21        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, I will answer your question precisely the way you

22     put it.  First of all, I would have found a way not to participate in any

23     activities that would be in contravention with my moral and ethic

24     principles.  That is why I was sent in early retirement at 2.00 a.m. as

25     the youngest of the generals.  That is why I resigned from my position of

Page 14143

 1     the executive director of the Ministry of Defence when this was to be

 2     violated.  That is why I submitted my resignation to the position of the

 3     director general or general manager of the oil industry Nis.  I went to

 4     join a university staff again because I never wanted to do anything that

 5     would go against my principles, and I would never have taken place in any

 6     way in an operation you describe, the way you describe it.

 7        Q.   Sir, you didn't answer my question.  My question was:  Would you

 8     have remained silent under the circumstances?

 9        A.   I was not in those circumstances, but I definitely would not have

10     remained silent; however, I would not have been there in the first place

11     taking any part.

12        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  Now if we could return to

13     Prosecution Exhibit 2696, which is the personnel file of

14     Colonel Jankovic.

15             MR. HARMON:  And could we return to, let me see, the page that we

16     examined before.  Could I have page 8 of the B/C/S and English document

17     ID 0422-2995 ET, page 2.  Okay.  Can we scroll up on the English version.

18     The B/C/S version -- the Serbian version was fine.  Could we go up on

19     the -- down then.  Thank you very much.

20        Q.   So you see that we've already discussed, General, the entry with

21     the 30th Personnel Centre.  Have you located that again on the personnel

22     file of Colonel Jankovic?  Do you see that, sir?

23        A.   I see where it says temporarily deployed to the

24     30th Personnel Centre.

25        Q.   Fine.  That was merely to locate you on this.  Because I want you

Page 14144

 1     to -- we want to find out what happened to Colonel Jankovic after his

 2     temporary assignment to Srebrenica.

 3             Can you tell us by looking at the next entry where

 4     Colonel Jankovic went after his temporary assignment to the

 5     30th Personnel Centre?

 6        A.   I have had a look.

 7        Q.   Okay.  Can you -- well, let me -- can you tell us, then, after

 8     having looked at this, where he went?  He returned to the VJ; is that

 9     correct?

10        A.   He returned to the 2nd Administration and its sector for OSP with

11     the Belgrade Garrison.

12        Q.   What does OSP stand for?

13        A.   Operational Staff Affairs.  It's the sector for Operational Staff

14     Affairs.

15        Q.   And in the far right box, there's a reference to 20-28 GS and

16     there's a date.  What does GS stand for in this context?

17        A.   The Intelligence Administration of the General Staff of the VJ.

18     That's what it says.  The Intelligence Administration of the

19     General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia.

20        Q.   So are they the body that issued order 20-28, or was it the

21     General Staff?  I'm referring to the box on the far right,

22     General Borovic, that has reference to 20-28 GS.  Is that a General Staff

23     order that brought Colonel Jankovic back to the VJ?

24        A.   I don't see that.  What number you said?  28?

25        Q.   Sir, if you take a look at the box -- you see the portion that

Page 14145

 1     says "30th Personnel Centre temporarily assigned"?  And if you go to the

 2     far right-hand side --

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   And you go to the first box, below the reference to the

 5     30th Personnel Centre, you will see the numbers 20-28 GS 07/02/96.  So

 6     this is a reflection that an order was issued to bring Colonel Jankovic

 7     back to the 2nd Administration; is that correct?

 8        A.   Yes, that is correct.

 9        Q.   Okay.  And letters GS, what does that stand for?

10        A.   It stands for a General Staff order dated the 2nd of December --

11     February, 1996.

12             MR. HARMON:  Could we go to the next page in the English only.

13        Q.   And for your reference, I'm going to direct you to the entries

14     that are in the penultimate box to see what happened with

15     Colonel Jankovic's career.  Okay?  You see that box, sir, where it --

16        A.   Yes, I can see it.

17        Q.   Okay.  In fact, just confirm this, if you would:

18     Colonel Jankovic became the chief of the 2nd Department of the

19     1st Sector of the Surveillance Administration of the General Staff of the

20     VJ in Belgrade.  And if we go to the far right-hand side of that box,

21     this is pursuant to an order 4-148 of the Chief of the General Staff

22     dated the 28th of August, 1998; is that correct?

23        A.   Yes, it is.  The Chief of the General Staff or -- issued and

24     signed documents for people to be promoted to the rank of colonel

25     following proposals made by the personnel administration.

Page 14146

 1        Q.   And the final entry I'd like to direct your attention to is the

 2     last entry.  If you would just affirm what I say, if it's -- if I say it

 3     accurately, Colonel Jankovic was then appointed as the military envoy of

 4     the Yugoslav Army to the Embassy of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in

 5     China; is that correct?

 6        A.   I can confirm that this is what the document states.  I wasn't

 7     aware of this.  This is what we can find in the document, and I take it

 8     as accurate.

 9        Q.   And on the far right-hand corner we can see that that was

10     pursuant to an order of the Chief of the General Staff of the VJ, order

11     number 5-208 of the 2nd of November, 1999 --

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic --

13             MR. HARMON:

14        Q.   -- is that correct?

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] The last entry is one year after

16     General Perisic was dismissed and I see no relation between these two

17     things.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Harmon.

19             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I'm merely trying to complete the

20     record on the career trajectory of this officer.  He -- of course, I'm

21     not asserting that this was General Perisic's order -- in fact, it could

22     not have been General Perisic's order.  So I accept Mr. Lukic's

23     assertion.  I'm merely pointing out to the Court what happened to

24     Colonel Jankovic.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You may proceed.

Page 14147

 1             MR. HARMON:  Thank you.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Objection overruled.

 3             MR. HARMON:  I've finished with this document, Your Honour.  I'd

 4     like to look at another document if I could, it's P2518.

 5        Q.   Take a moment, General, to read this document.

 6        A.   I've read it, Mr. Prosecutor.

 7        Q.   All right.  This is a document - for the record it's dated the

 8     23rd of May, 1995 - and it is -- we can see at the bottom it is sent by

 9     Chief of Staff of the VRS, General Milovanovic.  And this, as we can see

10     from the first paragraph, is -- and I'll read the first paragraph:

11             "Based on actual demonstrated need for engaging certain officers

12     of the VJ" --

13             THE INTERPRETER:  Kindly slow down.  Thank you.

14             MR. HARMON:  Yes, let me -- I'll slow down -- start again and

15     I'll slow down.

16        Q.   "Based on actual demonstrated need for engaging certain officers

17     of the VJ in the commands and units of the VRS, please send the following

18     officers to assist, pursuant to Article 58 of the Law on the

19     Yugoslav Army ..."

20             Now, sir, I want to focus on the first entry, Svetozar Kosoric,

21     who was a lieutenant-colonel.  And we can see what his current duty is

22     identified as in this document, which is the chief of intelligence

23     affairs organ of the 1st Armoured Brigade of the VJ Special Units Corps.

24     And the request is to have him assigned as the chief of intelligence

25     affairs department in the command of the Drina Corps in the VRS.

Page 14148

 1             Now, the VJ Special Units Corps, those -- again, is this

 2     particular entity the special units corps in which Svetozar Kosoric was

 3     serving, was that under the command of -- was that under the command of

 4     the VJ General Staff, Special Units Corps?

 5        A.   The unit was under the command of the Chief of the General Staff

 6     of the VJ, but competent professional administrations have responsibility

 7     within their specific remits vis-à-vis that type of personnel.  They were

 8     all inside the professional remit of the 2nd Administration, and their --

 9     and the Special Units Corps was basically under the

10     2nd Personnel [as interpreted] Administration.

11        Q.   Now, if we look at the last paragraph in this document, it

12     indicates that -- actually, before we -- let me go to the last paragraph.

13     It says:

14             "These officers were interviewed, and they have expressed their

15     readiness to be temporarily engaged" --

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] A correction for the transcript.

18     Page 20, line 24, the witness said "the 2nd Intelligence Administration,"

19     whereas in the transcript we have "personnel administration."

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Do you confirm that, Mr. Borovic?  Is that what

21     you said?

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. President.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much.

24             Yes, Mr. -- thank you, Mr. Lukic.

25             You may proceed, Mr. Harmon.

Page 14149

 1             MR. HARMON:  Thank you, Your Honour.

 2        Q.   Let me read, slowly, the last paragraph, sir.

 3             "These officers were interviewed, and they have expressed their

 4     readiness to be temporarily engaged and sent to the above VRS commands,

 5     as long as their status is properly regulated and their assignments in

 6     VJ units are frozen."

 7             Okay.  Now, let me ask you, in respect of this document -- I'd

 8     like you to identify, first of all, the handwriting.

 9             MR. HARMON:  If we could scroll to see the top of the document.

10        Q.   If you could identify the handwriting and the initials in the

11     upper right-hand corner of this document, what does it say, sir?  Whose

12     initials are they?

13        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, both the note and the initials were made by

14     General Perisic.

15        Q.   And what does the note say?  Can you read it?

16        A.   It says:

17             "Summon and dispatch if they want to go; if they don't, a

18     proposal."

19        Q.   Okay.

20             MR. HARMON:  Could we go to the bottom of the document in the --

21     yes.  Up -- sorry, if we could move over.  There's some handwriting.  I'd

22     like to capture the handwriting to the left of the stamp.

23        Q.   Do you know whose handwriting that is?

24        A.   I don't know exactly, but I can make it out.  It says:

25             "Submitted to Colonel-General Matovic on the 24th of May,

Page 14150

 1     awaiting an answer."

 2             Okay.  Okay.  Thank you.  We're going to look at a film,

 3     General Borovic.

 4             MR. HARMON:  If I could have P438 on the monitor.  We're going to

 5     start the film at 1:42:52, and we're going to end the film at 1:45:15.

 6             And it -- for the record, Your Honour, Colonel Kosoric has been

 7     identified in P438.  The transcript citation is at 6569, starting at

 8     line 21.

 9             So if we could play this portion of the film.

10                           [Video-clip played]

11             MR. HARMON:  The individual who Mr. Butler identified, just so

12     Your Honours are clear, is the second person from the left, the man with

13     the bald head and the moustache.  That is Colonel Kosoric.  So if we can

14     continue playing it.

15                           [Video-clip played]

16             MR. HARMON:  Your Honours, Colonel Kosoric is the individual at

17     the far right in this image.  He's the bald man, again, with the

18     moustache.

19             I've stopped the film at 1:45:11.8.  That's what I need to play.

20        Q.   Now, sir, following the completion of --

21             MR. HARMON:  Let me just make one other reference to the record.

22     There is testimony in the record that -- from Mr. Butler, found at

23     page 6.570 at lines 6 and 7, that Colonel Kosoric served as the chief of

24     the intelligence department of the Drina Corps command, so the -- just

25     connecting what the request was and what the facts before this

Page 14151

 1     Trial Chamber are.

 2        Q.   Now, sir, do you recall that following the completion of

 3     Colonel Kosoric's assignment to the VRS that he left his post in the VRS

 4     and he went to the VMA, the medical centre, and he did not report to his

 5     duty in the new assigned post in the VRS and that General Milovanovic

 6     sent General Perisic personally a letter, requesting that Kosoric be

 7     returned to the VRS and that that request of General Milovanovic was

 8     forwarded by the General Staff -- was received by the General Staff and

 9     was forwarded to the office of General Matovic.

10             Do you remember your office receiving such a letter about Colonel

11     Kosoric?

12        A.   Prosecutor, sir, I don't remember, but it probably happened that

13     way.  We should look into where this request came from, who sent it to

14     General Matovic.  I don't know Colonel Kosoric, and I don't remember

15     anything related to him.  We can look at a document from the cabinet and

16     who signed it, but I can't recall that now because I don't even know that

17     colonel.

18             MR. HARMON:  Can I have XN 431 on the monitor, please.  What I'm

19     interested on this document is English e-court 0677-9830 page 1 and B/C/S

20     page 74.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  What's the purpose?

22             MR. HARMON:  If I can have just a minute, Your Honour.  I just

23     need to check one thing.

24                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

25             MR. HARMON:  At this point, Your Honour, what I'd like to do is

Page 14152

 1     just show the document to the witness.  He may recall, after seeing the

 2     document.  This may refresh his recollection.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  That was just to jog his memory?

 4             MR. HARMON:  Yes.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.

 6             Can I assume, Mr. Lukic, that your nodding of the head is an

 7     indication of agreement?

 8             MR. LUKIC:  Yes, Your Honour.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

10             Please proceed, Mr. Harmon.

11             MR. HARMON:  This is not the document that I asked -- that I want

12     on the screen.  Let me repeat:  It's 06 - this might be the numbers - but

13     it's 0677-9830, page 1 of the English e-court version --

14             Let me just get some correction on this, Your Honour.

15                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

16             MR. HARMON:  This is the correct version on the document -- of

17     the document.

18        Q.   I want you to take a look at this, if you would, sir.  Would you

19     just take a look at the letter in your language, and if the Court -- once

20     the Court has an opportunity --

21             MR. HARMON:  This is a two-page or a three-page document in

22     English.  If we can turn to the next page in English so that the

23     Trial Chamber can see the English text.  And if this English version can

24     also be scrolled up so the stamp and the text at the bottom can be seen.

25     And then if we can go to the third page of the English version, we can

Page 14153

 1     see a name there.  So if we can go back to the first page of the English.

 2        Q.   Sir, this is a document -- you can see from this document that it

 3     is dated the 19th of May, 1996, from the Main Staff of the VRS, and it --

 4     you have seen earlier it is from General Milovanovic.  You can see that

 5     on your text.  And you can see some --

 6        A.   Yes, yes.

 7        Q.   And you can see from the text of the document - if we can go to

 8     the second page in the English - we can see from this -- and we need to

 9     see --

10             MR.  HARMON:  Thank you very much.

11        Q.   We can see from the text of this document that

12     Mr. Svetozar Kosoric was seconded from the VRS and he held the post of

13     chief of the intelligence department in the Drina Corps command.  And

14     when that corps, the Drina Corps, was disbanded, he was given a new post

15     but he went to the medical centre and he hasn't reported to his newly

16     assigned post.

17             Now, let me, first of all, confirm some things with you, sir.

18     This document was received by the Yugoslav Army General Staff, office of

19     the Chief of the General Staff, as reflected in the stamp in the lower

20     left-hand corner of the document; is that correct?

21        A.   Correct.

22             MR. HARMON:  And could we scroll to see the bottom of the B/C/S

23     version or the Serbian version, please.

24        Q.   We can see, at the bottom, sir, some text with a stamp and a name

25     and a signature.  Can you, first of all, read the text to us.

Page 14154

 1        A.   The text says:

 2             "To the commander of the special unit corps of the Army of

 3     Yugoslavia, we request an urgent proposal to the Chief of the

 4     General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia, and this Officer IJ," which

 5     stands for Ivan Jevtovic, signed for the chief.

 6             He was my assistant for planning and operations.  When he

 7     received it in the cabinet, he didn't do anything about it.  He didn't

 8     take any action.

 9             We can scroll back up to see what other suggestions were made --

10        Q.   [Previous translation continues] ...

11        A.   -- this assistant of mine sent it.

12        Q.   I'm going to go there in just a minute, but I want to just

13     develop one other element of the stamp at the end.

14             MR. HARMON:  Can we go down to the bottom of the document,

15     please.

16        Q.   And we see -- does your name appear on -- as the person whose

17     name appears at the bottom, even though this may have been signed by

18     some -- your assistant?  Is your name on this?

19        A.   The name of the superior officer is always typed, but the person

20     who stands in for him can sign if the superior officer is absent.  I was

21     very much involved in everything that was -- that concerned the

22     reorganisation, and I was often away from the office.  I'm not evading my

23     responsibility, but --

24        Q.   [Previous translation continues] ... my question -- could you

25     just -- if you just listen to my question.  Does your name appear on this

Page 14155

 1     document at that location?

 2        A.   Yes.  Yes, sir.

 3        Q.   Now --

 4        A.   -- in the typed version.

 5        Q.   Yes, thank you.  And I accept that your assistant signed that.

 6             MR. HARMON:  If we could go up to the upper right-hand corner.

 7        Q.   You and I wanted to go to the same notation of this document.

 8     And can you identify in this document -- first of all, in the top

 9     handwriting that's at a diagonal, whose handwriting is that and what does

10     it say?

11        A.   The handwriting that goes diagonally is that of General Perisic.

12        Q.   And what does it say?

13        A.   This first word is difficult to make out.  The second word,

14     however, is "proposal," so it must be "prepare a proposal," but it's not

15     very legible.

16        Q.   Then we see some other handwriting at the -- below

17     General Perisic's handwriting.  Can you read what that says?

18        A.   [No interpretation]

19        Q.   Sir, let me stop you there because I'm not getting any

20     interpretation.  I could hear it in Serbian, but I couldn't hear it in

21     English.

22             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's mistake.  Microphone was off.

23             MR. HARMON:

24        Q.   So let me ask you, General Borovic, to repeat.  Could you start

25     reading the language that's handwritten and with -- there's a signature

Page 14156

 1     underneath it.  What does it say?

 2        A.   First of all, at the top in the right-hand corner, it says

 3     Colonel Mijic slash something.  And then below it says:

 4             "At the collegium of the Chief of the General Staff of the

 5     Army of Yugoslavia on the 10th of June, 1996, it was decided that he

 6     return to the 30th Personnel Centre," signed J. Mijic.

 7             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I note the time and this would be -- I

 8     can continue after the break.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  We'll take the break and come back at quarter to

10     11.00.  Court adjourned.

11                           --- Recess taken at 10.16 a.m.

12                           --- On resuming at 10.46 a.m.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Harmon.

14             MR. HARMON:  Could I have on the -- this is a document,

15     Your Honour, that is related to the document we just examined, XN 431.

16     It's part of XN 431.  So if I could have e-court English 0677-9829 ET,

17     and the Serbian language version at page 73, please.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

19             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Are we still in the mode of a memory

20     refreshment?

21             MR. HARMON:  Yes.

22        Q.   All right, General Borovic, you can see the Serbian-language

23     version in front of you.

24             MR. HARMON:  If we could have the English-language version

25     centred and scrolled down a little bit.  And if we could have it centred,

Page 14157

 1     that would be helpful.  Thank you very much.

 2        Q.   Sir, this is a document that relates to the request of

 3     General Milovanovic.  And we can see from this document, can we not, that

 4     this is a communication that is directed to the sector for recruitment,

 5     mobilisation, and systems issues, specifically to

 6     Lieutenant-General Matovic in respect of the VRS proposal.  And it is a

 7     request that the sector for recruitment, mobilisation, and systems issue

 8     prepare a proposal that relates to General Milovanovic's request.

 9             Do you confirm that, sir?

10        A.   I can.

11        Q.   And we can see a time-stamp at the bottom.  This is the

12     27th of May, 1996, and then there is a stamp and a signature line.  Does

13     your name at least appear on the signature line?

14        A.   My name is typed there, and the actual signature is by my deputy,

15     Colonel Vlajkovic.

16        Q.   Okay.  Now, sir, let me ask you, then, in respect of the two

17     documents I have shown you, we have first of all the document from

18     General Milovanovic that was received by the cabinet on the

19     21st of May, 1996, and it was forwarded by your assistant to the

20     commander of the special units corps.  And then we can see that a second

21     communication in respect of the VRS request was forwarded to

22     Lieutenant-General Matovic.  And we can see that there was -- a proposal

23     was drafted, and, in fact, this matter was decided at a collegium.

24             Now, deciding a matter like this at a collegium, whether to

25     transfer somebody back to the VRS, would be unusual, would it not?  In

Page 14158

 1     other words, those matters were usually decided in the absence of a

 2     decision of the highest-ranking generals of the General Staff to make a

 3     decision?

 4        A.   Mr. Prosecutor, if General Risto Matovic, the assistant, believes

 5     that the proposal should be submitted to the collegium, then he drafts

 6     that proposal; if not, then he would decide it within his competences

 7     because he is the chief.

 8        Q.   But my question is this:  Deciding a matter like this, in other

 9     words, to return Colonel Kosoric to the VRS, that was a matter that was

10     decided at the collegium, the highest body of officers of the

11     General Staff.  Was that the usual procedure, or was that something that

12     was quite unusual?

13        A.   If that was decided at the collegium, it would be an unusual

14     procedure.

15        Q.   Now, having seen all of these documents and having seen, sir,

16     that this decision, there was a decision taken at the collegium, having

17     seen that these documents passed through your office, do these documents

18     that I'm showing you refresh your recollection as to the circumstances

19     regarding the request relating to General -- to Colonel Kosoric?

20        A.   Sir, I did not see, among the documents, the decision of the

21     collegium, but none of this refreshes my memory regarding

22     Colonel Kosoric.

23        Q.   In that case, Your Honour, I will not seek the admission of --

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You do not seek?

25             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I asked that these --

Page 14159

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes.

 2             MR. HARMON: -- be used for purposes of trying to refresh the

 3     witness's recollection.  He's seen these, he's examined these, it doesn't

 4     refresh his recollection.  I'm not seeking their admission, Your Honour.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much, Mr. Harmon.

 6             MR. HARMON:  Your Honour, I have concluded my examination of

 7     General Borovic.

 8        Q.   General Borovic, thank you very much.

 9             MR. HARMON:  And I would like to, before I sit down, regulate

10     Exhibit XN 446, which was deferred.  I will not seek the admission of

11     XN 446.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Harmon.  XN 446, okay.

13             Mr. Lukic.

14             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] With the Court's indulgence,

15     Your Honours, to organise my papers.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You have the indulgence, sir.

17                           Re-examination by Mr. Lukic:

18        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, General.

19        A.   Good morning.

20        Q.   I have a few questions for you on the subjects covered by

21     Mr. Harmon yesterday and earlier today.  The first area is, in fact, the

22     first thing Mr. Harmon asked you, about the time when you were appointed

23     chef de cabinet.

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] To make this completely clear, I

25     would like one document to be placed on the ELMO just to refresh the

Page 14160

 1     witness's memory.  I will not tender it.  We did not use the personnel

 2     file of --

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Could you show it to Mr. Harmon first.  Ma'am,

 4     could you please show it to Mr. Harmon before you put it on the ELMO.

 5             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] This is only in Serbian, an excerpt

 6     from the personnel file of this witness.

 7        Q.   There was some confusion about the time when you were appointed,

 8     and that confusion arose probably from my questions, the time when you

 9     were appointed chef de cabinet of the Chief of the General Staff of the

10     Army of Yugoslavia.  This document is only in Serbian, General, so the

11     other participants in the courtroom cannot follow.  But just tell us, do

12     you see from this document when -- first of all, what are we looking at,

13     and when were you appointed chef de cabinet of the Chief of the

14     General Staff?

15        A.   Mr. Lukic, when I answered this question I said I thought it was

16     in November and counsel said it was in December.  This says that by

17     virtue of order 3-326 of 24th of November, 1994, I was appointed - this

18     is the peacetime phrasing - I was appointed chef de cabinet.

19        Q.   Thank you.  I was a bit confusing about this.

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I'm not seeking admission,

21     Your Honours.  I just wanted the witness to be clear about the date.

22        Q.   The second area Mr. Harmon questioned you about is the visit of

23     the military delegation to Russia, the delegation which included the

24     Defence Minister Mr. Bulatovic, and General Perisic.

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we have Prosecution

Page 14161

 1     Exhibit P761 [In English] P6 -- 761 -- [Interpretation] Now I see that

 2     this document is under seal, so we need to go into private session.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

 4                           [Private session]

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 14162











11 Page 14162 redacted. Private session.















Page 14163

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10                           [Open session]

11             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

13             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] P719, please.

14        Q.   Before us are the minutes of the 34th Session of the

15     Supreme Defence Council held on 2 March 1995.

16             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] The next page, please, in both

17     versions.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. --

19             MR. HARMON:  Again, Your Honour, I raise the same objection I

20     raised previously.  This witness, I understood his evidence to be, he was

21     not present at the SDC meetings.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

23             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] This question is in the same vein,

24     refreshing his recollection, which I did with the previous document as

25     well.  But that document happened before the visit.  And now it was my

Page 14164

 1     intention to show him this one.  There was no date of the visit in this

 2     document; that is why I referred to the previous one first.  Hence, I

 3     have to show you both.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yeah, but I understood you to be saying that you

 5     want to refresh the witness's memory with respect to the time when the

 6     visit took place.  Now, did the previous document not do that

 7     sufficiently?

 8             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] You are correct.  I withdraw this

 9     document.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... and now what

11     is this one?

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I -- I'll move on.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, fine.  Thank you so much.

14             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

15        Q.   Well, let's go to another topic, General.  Yesterday Mr. Harmon

16     showed you P2736.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] And I'd like to have that back on the

18     screens, please.

19        Q.   Yesterday, in response to Mr. Harmon's and my questions,

20     something about this document, and I hope you believe -- I hope you

21     remember the sequence, but I just wanted to clarify something.  This

22     document, this request, was submitted on 1 September 1995; correct?

23        A.   Yes.

24        Q.   In the document, we can see that the previous request was

25     submitted on the 21 July 1995?

Page 14165

 1        A.   Yes, we can see that.

 2        Q.   And that one rocket battery was provided, as stated in this

 3     document.  Can we see from this document whether in the period between

 4     the 21st of July and the 1st of September when exactly the battery was

 5     sent to the VRS?

 6        A.   Well, we cannot see that from the document.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Let's go to another document, please.

 8     Please bear with me.  I believe we have to go into private session for

 9     this.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

11                           [Private session]

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 14166











11 Pages 14166-14169 redacted. Private session.















Page 14170

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5                           [Open session]

 6             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much, Mr. Registrar.

 8             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

 9             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we have 2729, please.  It's a

10     P document.

11        Q.   This document was shown to you by Mr. Harmon yesterday, and his

12     question that followed up on the previous document we've seen were

13     related to your answer you gave to me on this document.

14             Now, my question is this:  This document passed through the

15     cabinet, through your office; right?

16        A.   This is just a copy of what the Chief of the General Staff wrote

17     in longhand.

18        Q.   If a group of 400 people headed by Colonel Trkulja had indeed

19     been sent there, would some feedback have reached the cabinet, so just

20     that you know?

21        A.   If this was addressed to the Chief of the General Staff, the

22     Main Staff of the VRS should have sent back information to the cabinet

23     that these men had arrived safely, and that would have reached the

24     office.

25        Q.   Now I'll ask you a couple of questions about your answers given

Page 14171

 1     to Mr. Harmon today.  He showed you the personnel file of

 2     Mr. Radoslav Jankovic and also a movie, and he asked you a hypothetical

 3     question; namely, what would you have done if you had been in his shoes

 4     if you were an intelligence officer of an army who was temporarily

 5     seconded to another army, and while you were in that other army a

 6     forcible transfer of population was taking place from the area of

 7     Srebrenica to the area of Tuzla.

 8             Let me first ask you:  Is Tuzla or Srebrenica closer to the

 9     border with the FRY?

10        A.   Srebrenica.

11        Q.   And if that transfer of population occurs at a certain point and

12     it's talked about among the people and you go back to your original army

13     six months later, would you have had the obligation to inform your

14     superiors in the intelligence administration thereof?

15        A.   It's an impossible theory, that a person returning six months

16     later would bring back such information.

17        Q.   You testified, General, that you received regular daily reports

18     from the intelligence administration that were sent to the Chief of the

19     General Staff; do you remember that?

20        A.   Yes, I do.

21        Q.   Do you remember that in any of these daily operative report of

22     the intelligence administration you read any information about the

23     killings in Srebrenica?

24        A.   Mr. Lukic, we never received information, either through reports

25     or through talks with delegations that visited us, that any crime had

Page 14172

 1     taken place there.  The only information we received was that a corridor

 2     was opened up towards Tuzla for the safe passage of civilians; that's the

 3     only thing we knew during my tenure in the cabinet.  I was never informed

 4     of anything else.

 5             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we now call up a document shown

 6     earlier today by Mr. Harmon, P2518, regarding Mr. Kosoric.

 7        Q.   We see that this request was filed on the 23rd of May, 1995;

 8     right?

 9        A.   Right.

10        Q.   Very well.  We've also seen portions of his personnel file shown

11     by Mr. Harmon.  I would like to see another page of his personnel file.

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Unfortunately, Your Honours, we

13     received this just a few days ago from the Prosecution and I only have

14     the B/C/S version.  We need to look at XN 431, page 89.

15             I apologise to the interpreters.  I'll repeat.  XN 431, page 89.

16        Q.   You've probably never seen this before.  Will you read the

17     heading slowly so it can be interpreted.  What is written on the left?

18     It says --

19        A.   [No interpretation]

20        Q.   No, I'm interested in the typed-up part.  Where is it from?

21        A.   Military post -- Military PO Box 7102.

22        Q.   Date and number?

23        A.   Confidential number 05/20-146, 23rd June 1997.

24        Q.   Now read slowly aloud what is typed below that.

25        A.   "Pursuant to Article 171 of the inherited Law on General

Page 14173

 1     Administrative Proceedings ('Official Gazette of the SFRY,' number

 2     47/86), and with regard to the request of Svetozar Kosoric, father's name

 3     Djoko, Military PO Box 7102 Bijeljina, hereby issues this certificate:

 4             "That Svetozar Kosoric, father's name Djoko, lieutenant-colonel,

 5     born on 22nd May, 1953, in Han Pijesak, was a member of the

 6     Army of Republika Srpska.

 7             "Military PO Box 7102 Bijeljina in the following period, from

 8     15 June 1995 to 15 February 1997.

 9             "This certificate is issued at the personal request of the

10     afore named person and on the basis of official records of Military PO

11     Box 7102 Bijeljina and serves the purpose of exercising status-related

12     rights in the army and may not be used for any other purpose.

13             "Signed Commander Lieutenant-General Novica Simic."

14        Q.   Just repeat the dates; from, to.

15        A.   Military --

16        Q.   No, no.  Please, this period when he was a member in Bijeljina.

17        A.   In Bijeljina he was from 15 June 1995 until 15 February 1997.

18        Q.   Whose stamp is affixed next to the signature, which army's stamp?

19        A.   It's the stamp of the Military PO Box 7102 Bijeljina; that's the

20     Army of Republika Srpska.  They had these eagles on the stamp.

21        Q.   So in this period, from 15 June 1995 until 15 February 1997, in

22     which army did Svetozar Kosoric serve?

23        A.   It says member of the Army of Republika Srpska.

24        Q.   Thank you.

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this document,

Page 14174

 1     Your Honours, to be MFI'd, pending translation.

 2             MR. HARMON:  I have no objection, Your Honour.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much.  The document is ...

 4                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic, do you want the whole document or do

 6     you want this page only?

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Just this page.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just this page, Mr. Registrar.

 9             It's admitted into evidence.  And may it please be given an

10     exhibit number and marked for identification.

11             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this document shall be assigned

12     Exhibit D501, marked for identification.  Thank you.

13             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have completed my re-direct,

14     Your Honours.

15             I would like to thank Mr. Borovic.

16             Thank you, Your Honours.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Registrar, yesterday we already allocated D501

18     to document number 1015D, so I suspect this should be 0 -- D502.

19             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, correction for the transcript:

20     This document page number 89 of the XN 431 shall be Exhibit D502.  Thank

21     you.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Lukic.

23                           Questioned by the Court:

24             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Mr. Borovic, I have a few

25     questions for you.  First of all, regarding Srebrenica events, when did

Page 14175

 1     you find out what had happened in Srebrenica, and how did you find out

 2     about it?

 3        A.   I heard about these events much later when I was already back in

 4     the centre of military schools.  There was no talk about these crimes at

 5     all.  First of all, I learned from the media and then also there was

 6     talk; I don't know exactly how because we always talk there.  But at the

 7     time of the events, we didn't know anything at all.

 8             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] And as head of the cabinet of the

 9     head of the Main Staff of the VJ, you had absolutely no idea what had

10     happened at the enclave in Srebrenica?  Is that your answer?  Did I

11     understand you correctly?

12        A.   We did not know anything, we in the cabinet, at the time of these

13     events.

14             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Very good.  I will take note of

15     it.

16             You've also told us, regarding today's examination, during the

17     examination of today, during your deposition today, you've also told us

18     about soldiers that were killed and you also told us that the report that

19     was made and sent to the Main Staff was directly sent to the archives,

20     nobody had read it; is that correct?

21        A.   That's true about that document, but later on --

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just a second, Mr. Borovic.

23             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] First of all, I think we should be in

25     private session if that's about that document that we discussed, that

Page 14176

 1     particular one.

 2             And if I may suggest, there was never any mention of soldiers

 3     being killed.  We talked about soldiers who were injured.  Your question

 4     refers to people killed.

 5             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] That's correct.  Thank you very

 6     much.  I'm sorry.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

 8                           [Private session]

9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 14177











11 Pages 14177-14178 redacted. Private session.















Page 14179

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15                           [Open session]

16             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

18             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] So, Witness, you told us that

19     General Mladic would come from time to time and he would come to see

20     General Perisic; is that correct?

21        A.   I didn't say he would come to see him.  I said he came

22     occasionally to the General Staff to see General Perisic, whether to see

23     him or to ask for something ...

24             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] And you were not privy to their

25     discussions?

Page 14180

 1        A.   No, I was never there.  Only the first time when I saw him I was

 2     at the office, and then I left because of what happened.

 3             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] And who was making sure of the

 4     follow-up of these meetings?  If I understood correctly, the first day

 5     you told us that it was part of your work, that you were making sure of

 6     the follow-up of the meetings of General Perisic.

 7        A.   Depends on what General Perisic would order after the meeting.

 8     As far as I know, General Perisic always went on with the generals

 9     somewhere else, like President Milosevic maybe.  He did not necessarily

10     issue any orders to the cabinet.  He would give assignments to his

11     assistants maybe.  And there are no such documents reflecting that in the

12     archives either.

13             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] So you were also not aware of what

14     was taking place during the meetings with General Mladic and

15     General Perisic.  It's not a question, I'm just saying in fact that as a

16     chief of the cabinet you were not aware of much.  What were you doing

17     exactly?  What were your functions?

18             The first day, when you explained to us what your duties were, it

19     seemed to be quite clear; but every time we put a question to you with

20     regard to your duties, you say that you did not know anything, that you

21     were not aware, that it did not go through you, that it did not go

22     through the cabinet at all.  So I'm quite surprised here to hear that.

23        A.   Well, you always asked questions that are outside the purview,

24     outside the remit of the cabinet.  Counsel showed me one part of Mladic's

25     diaries.  He didn't even know my name.  He said in his diary "colonel,

Page 14181

 1     chef de cabinet," he didn't even know who I was.  We in the cabinet were

 2     an operative organ that dealt with administration, planning, visits.  I

 3     led the reform of the army.  I was a deputy of the leader of that group.

 4     I often did that work in the cabinet, and I told you all I knew.  It's

 5     just that you expect that the chef de cabinet would know different

 6     things.  I saw Mladic exactly three times in my whole life.  I saw him,

 7     of course, on television, but nothing else.

 8             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Very well.  Thank you very much.

 9     I have no further questions for you.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Judge.

11             Judge.

12             JUDGE DAVID:  Witness, on the 21st September, page 54 of that

13     day, line 1 to 3, Mr. Lukic asked you:

14             "In what context does General Perisic discuss humanitarian and

15     military assistance to the Army of Republika Srpska and to the Serbian

16     people?"

17             Your answer was:

18             "It was ... a note of consolation comforting the patriarch,

19     rather than ... anything real."

20             My question to you is:  How do you arrive to your conclusion that

21     that was a note of consolation to -- first question:  Do you remember

22     there was a visit of the patriarch and you said it was a note of

23     consolation, at least this is what appears in the transcript.  I don't

24     know the word in Serbo-Croat.  Why you came to the conclusion that was a

25     note of consolation?

Page 14182

 1        A.   First of all, the patriarch did visit.  I received him.  And

 2     metropolitan Amfilohije Radovic and the bishop of Nis were with him.  We

 3     made an Official Note that was signed by General Krivosija.  And in one

 4     portion of that note, General Perisic describes the situation exactly as

 5     we saw it at the time.  However, the patriarch was concerned about the

 6     fate of the Serbian people on the other side of the Drina River.  He was

 7     concerned about the conflict between the leadership of Republika Srpska

 8     and the leadership of the Republic of Serbia.  He was anxious, and he

 9     thought that the leadership of the Republic of Serbia was not going to

10     help the Serbs in Republika Srpska.  He pleaded that those people should

11     be helped regardless of any regimes, and General Perisic told him that he

12     would do all in his power to make sure that that is done.  And that was

13     the sole contact with the patriarch.

14             JUDGE DAVID:  Thank you.  As I read in the transcript,

15     General Perisic has said that the FRY, despite the unfair sanctions

16     imposed by the international community, has been assisting

17     Republika Srpska, Republika Srpska Krajina, in every respect,

18     humanitarian, military, et cetera.  You recall that?

19        A.   I recall the document stating as much.  At the Drina there were

20     observers controlling one bank and then there were observers on the

21     other.  The sanctions were quite stringent, and the general said that he

22     would do what he could; however, his power was not great in that regard.

23     He could do little more than try and console the patriarch.

24             JUDGE DAVID:  Was your office issuing at the time many other

25     notes of consolation to the public or to any sector of the society or

Page 14183

 1     just the only note of consolation that you had participated on or in?

 2     You recall that in your experience, if the General Staff issued

 3     consolation notes departing from the real situation?  Because you said in

 4     your answer it was just a consolation note rather than anything real.

 5     You recall that?

 6             My question is to you:  In your experience as chef de cabinet,

 7     have you participated in many other consolation notes of this tenor?

 8     Yes, no, or I don't know, as Judge Moloto used to say.

 9             You could answer:  Yes, no, or I don't know.

10        A.   No, it only happened when the patriarch visited on that occasion.

11             JUDGE DAVID:  Okay.  In your experience, you never saw any

12     document, any elements that permitted you or allowed you to infer that

13     the VJ army was helping either the Army of Republika Srpska or the

14     Republika Srpska Krajina; have you ever seen or come about any document,

15     any elements establishing that relation?

16        A.   If there were any violations, they were definitely not reflected

17     in any documents that were filed.  And no one would send such a document.

18             JUDGE DAVID:  You know, I saw here in the transcript that you

19     replied "if there were any violations."  I said "relations."  And you

20     answered:

21             "If there were any violations, they were definitely not reflected

22     in any documents that were filed.  And no one would send such a

23     document."

24             Is that your answer?

25        A.   Yes, that was my answer.  There were never any violations

Page 14184

 1     mentioned in specific documents.

 2             JUDGE DAVID: [Microphone not activated]

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Judge.

 4             Any questions arising from the questions by the Bench?

 5             Mr. Lukic.

 6             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, just to clarify something.

 7                           Further Re-examination by Mr. Lukic:

 8             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] The first question put by

 9     Judge Picard, and I'll read it out, was:

10             [In English] "First of all, regarding the Srebrenica events, when

11     did you find out what happened in Srebrenica, and how did you find out

12     about it?"

13             [Interpretation] And then you provided your answer.

14             My question is this, to try and be more precise, because I

15     believe this was a rather extensive question:  During the events in

16     Srebrenica, did you hear of the enclave being under attack at that time?

17        A.   We only heard of the enclave being run over after that.

18        Q.   When Srebrenica was taken over, did you hear of any transfers of

19     population from Srebrenica to Tuzla?

20        A.   I don't know.  Somehow I did know that there was a corridor

21     opened for civilians to evacuate from Srebrenica to Tuzla.  This is what

22     I can recall.

23        Q.   Was it at the time of those events?  Because your answer was that

24     you heard of all those Srebrenica events much later.  I'm trying to be

25     precise --

Page 14185

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic, you are overlapping with the

 2     interpreters because you are very fast.  Give the witness a break.

 3             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   Please pause, Mr. Borovic.  We are near the end, rest assured --

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... you must have

 6     a pause.  You must not overlap.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I always apologise, but it doesn't do

 8     much to help me.

 9        Q.   At the time of the Srebrenica events, what did you hear of them?

10        A.   We only knew that the protected area of Srebrenica was taken

11     over.  I also had information from somewhere that there was a corridor

12     for the civilians to go towards Tuzla.

13             As for Judge Picard's question, I understood it to mean whether

14     we knew of the crimes, and I said that we only heard of -- about those

15     much later and not only in terms of Srebrenica.

16        Q.   When you say "crimes," what do you mean specifically?  It's a

17     very broad term.

18        A.   We heard that there were civilians killed there, but no one spoke

19     about it publicly until some NGOs or the media began reporting about

20     that.

21        Q.   And what were your sources?  Where did you hear about the murders

22     from?

23        A.   From the media alone.  I had no other sources, and that was much

24     later.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Judge Picard also asked you --

Page 14186

 1             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I believe we should go into private

 2     session.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

 4                           [Private session]

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 14187

1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7                           [Open session]

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

10             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

11             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

12        Q.   The last question:  Judge Picard asked you about the meetings

13     between Perisic and Mladic and whether you knew anything about them.

14     I'll ask you this:  As regards everything you testified about, about any

15     cabinet procedures, do you know of any case of General Mladic asking of

16     anything from Mr. Perisic, for example, assistance, and that it was

17     decided on without your knowledge?  Do you know of any such an occurrence

18     of any assistance offered by the office without your knowledge?

19        A.   When I was in the office, in the cabinet, we had no information

20     about such decisions made by the general.  He had to ask for a position

21     on that from someone else in the army.  I don't know whether he made any

22     personal promises.  But even if he did, it should have eventually reached

23     personnel or logistics.

24        Q.   And what route would that be done, what route would be used?

25        A.   Well, it must -- it surely would have gone through the cabinet.

Page 14188

 1     There is no other way.

 2             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.  I have no

 3     further questions.

 4                           [Trial Chamber confers]

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  We'll take a break and come back at half past

 6     12.00.  Court adjourned.

 7                           --- Recess taken at 12.03 p.m.

 8                           --- On resuming at 12.31 p.m.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Before I call you, Mr. Harmon, Judge Picard

10     indicated that she's got one question to ask.

11             JUDGE PICARD: [No interpretation]

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, we're getting no English translation.

13             THE INTERPRETER:  Could Judge Picard start again.  The

14     interpreter had a technical problem.  Sorry for that.

15                           Questioned by the Court: [Continued]

16             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Just before the break, answering a

17     question by Mr. Lukic -- cabinet, the office of the Chief of General

18     Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia -- the cabinet of -- about the assistance

19     extended to the Army of the Republic of Serbian Krajina or the VRS.

20     That's what you said.

21             Should I repeat my question?  Maybe it wasn't clear.

22             You said, answering Mr. Lukic's question just before the break,

23     that in your cabinet of the Chief of the General Staff of the Army of

24     Yugoslavia, where you were chef de cabinet, you were not informed about

25     the decisions of General Perisic regarding, for instance, any assistance

Page 14189

 1     extended to the VRS or the Army of the Republic of Serbian Krajina.  I

 2     just want to make sure that that's exactly what you said.  You were not

 3     informed of such decisions.  And I understood that General Perisic may

 4     have addressed himself directly to the personnel administration or the

 5     logistical administration.

 6        A.   Madam Judge, the question was whether General Perisic could

 7     promise anything to General Mladic and to see it through without the

 8     knowledge of the cabinet.  It was my belief that it was not possible for

 9     General Perisic to promise anything to General Mladic without issuing

10     tasks to the cabinet and without knowing exact information from the

11     administrations about the amount of equipment and personnel.  He must

12     have gone through the administration for such an assignment.

13             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] That means that the decisions that

14     he may have made about assistance to the VRS or the Army of the

15     Republic of Serbian Krajina would have gone through you, wouldn't they?

16        A.   You could see in the correspondence that was shown, if there were

17     any requests put through by the SVK or the VRS to the office, we

18     acquainted the chief, asked for a position, and we receive replies from

19     implementing agents.  Such requests had to go through the cabinet.

20     Reports which came, however, need not require any action on our part.  We

21     only -- only the person addressed to would be informed of it.

22             All of the requests that went through the cabinet were known.

23     Any decisions made by the implementing agents would be registered with

24     the cabinet; they would go through the cabinet.  As for any oral

25     agreements or arrangements, that is something the office would not be

Page 14190

 1     apprised of.

 2             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I'm not sure I understand your

 3     answer.  Just before the break you said:

 4             [In English] "I don't know whether he made any personal promises.

 5     But even if he did, it should have eventually reached personnel or

 6     logistics."

 7             [Interpretation] In fact, I understood then that it didn't go

 8     through you, that it was addressed directly to other offices, other

 9     administrations.  Or did I misunderstand this?

10        A.   It could be done that way too.  He could summon an assistant and

11     issue an assignment to him without going through the cabinet itself.

12             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] So, generally speaking, it went

13     through the cabinet.  It was only exceptional -- it would have been

14     exceptional if it hadn't gone through you?

15        A.   The official route was through the cabinet, the official one.

16             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] So my next question is:  Were

17     there many decisions made by General Perisic to extend assistance to the

18     Army of the Republic of Serbian Krajina and the VRS despite the embargo?

19        A.   In 1994 and 1995 as well as onwards, all reserves were at

20     critical levels in the VJ, and very few requests were met even before and

21     especially during the embargo.  I am not familiar with any decisions made

22     by General Perisic which would violate the embargo.

23             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] So if ordnance and materiel and

24     fuel were given to the VRS and the Army of the Republic of Serbian

25     Krajina, what procedure would have been followed?  Wasn't it

Page 14191

 1     General Perisic who decided?  Because we've seen that he did take a few

 2     decisions in that period about this.

 3        A.   As far as I recall, the VRS too kept asking for assets which

 4     were -- which we were short of in the VJ as well.  And in principle such

 5     requests were forwarded to the Supreme Defence Council, where the general

 6     would seize of that opportunity to have the army budget increased.  But

 7     in any case, such decisions could not be made without the approval of the

 8     Supreme Defence Council.

 9             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] So if there were violations -- or

10     if there were no violations of the embargo, that's only because you

11     didn't have enough supplies?

12        A.   One cannot blame everything on the shortages.  First of all there

13     was the embargo, and the council had its obligations vis-à-vis the army

14     and the international community.  There were observers on the border, as

15     well as our MUP personnel.  Those were the reasons it was not done.

16             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] All right.  And just one more

17     thing and I will be done.

18             To go back to the Srebrenica events, you said earlier you

19     understood my question as relating to the massacre and that was indeed my

20     question.  We know that General Perisic went to see General Mladic in

21     Han Pijesak on the 14th of July, I think, I'm not quite sure about the

22     date, but it was around the 14th; it could have been 13th or 15th, but I

23     think it's the 14th --

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Perhaps I can assist.  And Mr. Harmon

Page 14192

 1     would, I believe, confirm that.  It is the 18th of July, actually.

 2             MR. HARMON:  I confirm that.  Yes, I confirm that.

 3             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Right, 18 July then.

 4        Q.   We know that General Perisic went to Han Pijesak to meet with

 5     General Mladic on the 18th of July, and you told us that you were not

 6     informed about this visit.

 7        A.   I was not informed about this visit, Madam Judge.

 8             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] And when he came back, did he talk

 9     about it with you?

10        A.   No, Madam Judge.

11             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Wasn't it your job to discuss with

12     General Perisic what was going on in the Yugoslav Army and on the

13     borders?

14        A.   If asked by the general, it was my job to provide my opinion; if

15     he did not, I could not force my opinion on him.

16             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] So you didn't speak to him often,

17     did you?

18        A.   I speak to him often about army reform and educational reform,

19     our problems, international co-operation, but he was in command.  I also

20     had other duties, professorial duties.  In any case --

21             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I understand, but I have to

22     interrupt you because it seems to me that, nevertheless, there were other

23     more important things happening in the region at the time.  And certainly

24     your professorial duties and international co-operation and the reform of

25     education did not come close, and there were more important things going

Page 14193

 1     on in the region.  And you didn't discuss them at all with

 2     General Perisic?

 3        A.   Any security and intelligence analyses were done by the

 4     intelligence administration and the whole of the General Staff, generally

 5     speaking.  But the office did not originate such issues or discussion.

 6             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I have to conclude my questioning

 7     because it seems to me that you are answering at cross-purposes all the

 8     time.  Thank you.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO: [Microphone not activated] ... Mr. Lukic, do you

10     have any questions arising specifically from the Judge's questions?

11             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.  I'll be brief in relation to

12     the last question.

13                           Further Re-examination by Mr. Lukic: [Continued]

14        Q.   You testified that you knew of General Perisic's visit to

15     Han Pijesak in July 1995.  To your knowledge, what was the reason for his

16     departure?

17        A.   I wasn't asked that by the Judge.  We only had information that

18     there were problems with an UNPROFOR unit from the Ukraine in Zepa.

19     That's the extent of the information we had.

20        Q.   You also testified that you knew about the Muslims swimming over

21     the Drina in Serbia on the 1st of August?

22        A.   Yes, I testified to that extent.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Lukic.

24             Mr. Harmon.

25             MR. HARMON:  I do, Your Honour, have a question.  I'm referring

Page 14194

 1     to General Borovic's answer at page 61, line 14 and 15.

 2                           Further Cross-examination by Mr. Harmon:

 3        Q.   General Borovic, in answer to Judge Picard's question, you said:

 4             "In 1994 and 1995 as well ... all reserves were at critical

 5     levels in the VJ, and very few requests were met even before and

 6     especially during the embargo."

 7             And this is the part of the answer I am focusing on:

 8             "I am not familiar with any decisions made by General Perisic

 9     which would violate the embargo."

10             Well, during your examination, you were shown documents by

11     Mr. Lukic.  Do you remember the document about the air-bombs that we

12     discussed -- both Mr. Lukic and I discussed with you, the decision to

13     send a certain number of air-bombs to the Republika Srpska?  Do you

14     remember that discussion we had?

15             MR. HARMON:  If we could have 2731 on the monitor, please.  Well,

16     this is a different document, but I can -- I will use this document as

17     well, and then I will go to the document I was thinking of.  Let's take a

18     look at this document.  This is Prosecution Exhibit 2731.

19        Q.   Sir, I want to test your assertion that you're not familiar with

20     any decisions by General Perisic which would violate the embargo.  Is

21     there a date on this document, and can you tell us if that date fell

22     within the time-period of the embargo?

23        A.   I can see the date, the 28th of June, 1995.

24        Q.   Was that during the period of the embargo, sir?

25        A.   Well, now that you ask, I suppose so.  I don't know, though, when

Page 14195

 1     the embargo no longer existed.

 2        Q.   The embargo started --

 3        A.   -- I am familiar with these particular motors called grad.

 4        Q.   The embargo, as we discussed earlier, started on the

 5     4th of August, 1994, and continued through the end of the war.

 6             Now, if we look at the text of this document, this refers to a

 7     decision by -- I see, let me ask you a question.  Who is the signatory on

 8     this document and whose stamp and whose name appears at the bottom of

 9     this document?

10        A.   It was sent to the assistant commander for logistics of the

11     2nd Army.  It was signed on my behalf by my assistant, and you can see my

12     name typed there.  The stamp is that of the cabinet, and the

13     re-assignment of the 200 grad motors was approved.  They had actually

14     purchased those motors in the Ukraine or Bulgaria, and they were stored

15     somewhere in Podgorica in Montenegro in the warehouses of the 2nd Army.

16        Q.   And providing those documents -- those grad motors to the VRS

17     would have been a violation of the embargo; isn't that correct?

18        A.   Yes, it would have.

19             MR. HARMON:  Can we turn -- can we have Prosecution Exhibit 951

20     on the monitor, please -- I'm sorry, it's not 951.  Let me ...

21             Could I have 2746 on the monitor, please.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

23             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Just one correction for the

24     transcript.  He said, page 65, line 25, he said they bought them.

25     Perhaps it should be clarified as to who bought it.

Page 14196

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Those were the assets of the VRS

 2     that they had purchased in Bulgaria or the Ukraine.  They were stored in

 3     the warehouses of the 2nd Army in the territory of Montenegro.

 4             MR. HARMON:

 5        Q.   Let me focus your attention now on Prosecution Exhibit 2746,

 6     which is on the monitor before you.  And you can see, sir, that this is a

 7     request, and we discussed this document at length in your

 8     cross-examination and it was -- you discussed it with Mr. Lukic in your

 9     direct examination.  This is a request dated the 7th of October, 1995,

10     for ten air-bombs.  And it is -- it was directed to General Perisic

11     personally.

12             MR. HARMON:  And if we turn to the next page in the English and

13     if we scroll up on the Serbian-language version so we can see a text at

14     the bottom.  If we could centre that, please.

15        Q.   You see the text at the bottom on the lower right-hand side of

16     your document.  Do you see that text, sir?

17        A.   Yes, I see it.

18        Q.   And do you see a name underneath that text, and whose name is it?

19        A.   It is my name.  It was signed for me.  Perhaps if you go further

20     down the page we could see the signature.  Any document that went through

21     the cabinet bears the name of the chief of the office because other

22     people were authorised to sign for me.  We sent it to the sector for the

23     air force and anti-aircraft defence with the position contained.

24        Q.   And can you see the text at the bottom.  Does the text read as

25     follows:

Page 14197

 1             "The Chief of the General Staff of the VJ has approved for the

 2     General Staff of the VRS to be resolved as soon as possible"?

 3        A.   That's what it says, Mr. Prosecutor.

 4        Q.   And then in your evidence, sir, we also looked at a different

 5     document, a document showing that these items were, in fact, delivered.

 6     It was Prosecution P951.  And in your exam -- cross-examination, I asked

 7     you who had approved the delivery of those ten air-bombs.  And your

 8     answer was that General Perisic had.

 9             So my question to you, General Borovic, is:  Would delivery of

10     those ten air-bombs have been a violation of the embargo?

11        A.   It would have.  And I confirmed that this was issued.

12        Q.   And do you still stand by your answer that you gave to

13     Judge Picard, that:

14             "I am not familiar with any decisions made by General Perisic

15     which would violate the embargo"?

16        A.   In principle, these were individual instances.  In general, we

17     honoured the embargo.  There probably were individual cases, although I

18     cannot recall each and every one, but, generally speaking, the embargo

19     was honoured.

20        Q.   Are you aware, sir, that President Lilic ordered General Perisic

21     to supply the 30th and 40th Personnel Centres with equipment and weapons?

22        A.   I can't recall that off the top of my head.  I don't know whether

23     that went through the cabinet.

24             MR. HARMON:  I have no further questions, Your Honour.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Harmon.

Page 14198

 1             MR. HARMON:

 2        Q.   Thank you, General Borovic.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Lukic.

 4             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I know that as per

 5     procedure I cannot put any further questions after Mr. Harmon's

 6     questions, but given the issue he touched upon and when the embargo was

 7     lifted, I would kindly ask that I be allowed to put a single question to

 8     the witness and show him one document concerning the question by

 9     Mr. Harmon about the date when the embargo ceased to exist.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Is that not already in evidence?

11             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] The document I would like to show the

12     witness is already an exhibit, and it relates directly to the topic

13     initiated by Mr. Harmon about General Perisic's embargo violations.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The happenings of this afternoon are really

15     completely out of procedure.  The purpose of asking questions after the

16     Judges' questions is to clarify issues which may have been muddled up by

17     the questions by the Judges.  Now, really not to play a ping-pong game.

18     I watched Mr. Harmon virtually re-cross-examining the witness.  Now you

19     also want to re-lead him again.

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] This is what it's about, Your Honour.

21     Judge Picard put certain questions to the witness about the embargo.  He

22     answered and then I had at that point in time no further questions.  My

23     questions had to do with the questions of the Judges and further

24     clarifications.  Mr. Harmon, however, put him additional questions and

25     showed him some other documents in his attempt to further discredit the

Page 14199

 1     witness about the embargo violations by the FRY and its Chief of

 2     General Staff.  He showed him some documents, but those were not parts of

 3     Judge Picard's questions.

 4             Simply put, Mr. Harmon opened up a whole new topic.  And in that

 5     regard, I want to put a single question in order to clarify the answer

 6     given to Mr. Harmon on that topic, and I believe it will assist the

 7     witness as well.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Go ahead, Mr. Lukic.

 9             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

10             Could we please have P749.  It is under seal.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Do you want a private session?

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

14                           [Private session]

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

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22   (redacted)

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Page 14200











11 Page 14200 redacted. Private session.















Page 14201

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 6   (redacted)

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 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12                           [Open session]

13             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

15             Mr. Borovic, this brings us to the end of your testimony.  The

16     Chamber takes this opportunity to thank you for coming to testify at the

17     Tribunal and taking time from what I believe must be a very busy

18     schedule.  Thank you so much, and you are now excused.  You may stand

19     down.  Please travel well back home.

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.  Good luck in

21     your work.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

23                           [The witness withdrew]

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, as we have informed

Page 14202

 1     you, we have no witnesses for the rest of this week or for the next week

 2     either.  And I would like you to know about the state of affairs in our

 3     case regarding the Defence witnesses that we intend to call and other

 4     witnesses that we have given up on, but we would like to discuss this in

 5     private session with your leave.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

 7                           [Private session]

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

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Page 14203











11 Pages 14203-14209 redacted. Private session.















Page 14210

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 6   (redacted)

 7                           [Open session]

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  We are in open session.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Fine.  Then I can put my question once again in

10     open session:  Do we then postpone to the 4th of October?

11             MR. GUY-SMITH:  That would be correct, Your Honour.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I don't have a court schedule for October just

13     yet, so I don't know whether -- which court and whether it's in the

14     morning or in the afternoon.  We'll -- we stand postponed to the 4th of

15     October, the court and time to be determined.

16             Court adjourned.

17                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.25 p.m.,

18                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 4th day

19                           of October, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.