Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 13035

 1                          Monday, 29 January 2007

 2                          [Open session]

 3                          [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 2.15 p.m.

 5            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, please call the

 6    case.

 7            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. President.

 8    Case IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus Prlic et al.

 9            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.  Today

10    is Monday, the 29th of January.  My greetings to Mr. Mundis and

11    Ms. Gillett.  I greet everybody in the courtroom, the Defence counsel, the

12    accused, and all the people working in and around the courtroom.

13            First of all, I'm going to give the floor to the registrar because

14    he's got some IC numbers.

15            THE REGISTRAR:  The OTP has submitted a response to the objections

16    regarding OTP exhibits tendered through Witness Jeremy Bowen, which will

17    be IC 255.  Several parties have submitted lists of documents to be

18    tendered through Witness Jovan Rajkov.  The list submitted by the OTP

19    shall be given Exhibit number IC 256.  The list submitted by 2D shall

20    given Exhibit number IC 257.  The list submitted by 3D shall be given

21    Exhibit number IC 258.  3D has also submitted a list of objections to

22    documents tendered by the OTP through Witness Jovan Rajkov; that list

23    shall be given Exhibit number IC 259.  Thank you.

24            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.  Can

25    we move to private session.

Page 13036

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Page 13037











11    Pages 13037-13043 redacted. Closed session















Page 13044

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 5                          [Open session]

 6            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session.

 7                          Examination by Ms. Gillett:

 8       Q.   Good afternoon, Witness.

 9       A.   Good afternoon.

10       Q.   By way of background, where were you born?

11       A.   I was born in Mostar.

12       Q.   And did you always live in Mostar, or have you lived also where

13    else?

14       A.   I lived in Mostar until 1979 when we moved to Buna.

15       Q.   And when you moved to Buna in 1979 and up until the time of the

16    war, what was the ethnic composition, the nationality of people living in

17    Buna?

18       A.   Most of them were Serbs, and the Muslims and Croats, there were an

19    equal number of them.

20       Q.   Did you remain living in Buna?

21       A.   No, but we have a house in Buna.

22            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a question on my part.  How

23    far is Buna from Mostar in kilometres?

24            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] About 12 kilometres.

25            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And the town, how many

Page 13045

 1    inhabitants does it have, roughly?

 2            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can't really say.

 3            MS. GILLETT:

 4       Q.   Witness, you said you didn't remain living in Buna.  When did you

 5    leave Buna and where did you go from there?

 6       A.   Can you repeat that question, please?

 7       Q.   Certainly.  You told the Court that you started living in Buna in

 8    1979, and I asked you whether you continued to live in Buna and you

 9    answered no.  The question is:  When did you leave Buna?

10       A.   We left Buna for the first time in May 1992, and then we returned

11    in August.

12       Q.   Just to pause there.  When you left in May, so from May until

13    August 1992, where were you living?

14       A.   In Mostar.

15       Q.   And where did you go after August 1992?

16       A.   From August 1992 until 1993, July, we lived in Buna.

17       Q.   And at that time who were you living with?

18       A.   I was living with my parents and two brothers.

19       Q.   How old were you in 1992?

20       A.   In 1992 I was 16.

21       Q.   Now, although as you've told us you were living in Buna from 1979

22    until May 1992, and you've also told the Judge the distance between Mostar

23    and Buna, did you have occasion to visit Mostar at all during the time you

24    were living in Buna?

25       A.   Yes.

Page 13046

 1       Q.   Why did you go there?

 2       A.   Well, we had relatives in town, and we crossed from Buna to

 3    Mostar.

 4       Q.   Was there any other reason that you would visit Mostar during that

 5    period up until 1992?

 6       A.   I went to school.

 7       Q.   In April or May 1992, just before you left Buna, were you still

 8    going to school at that time?

 9       A.   Can you repeat that question, please?

10       Q.   Yes.  In April or May 1992, were you still attending school in

11    Mostar?

12       A.   No.

13       Q.   Why was that?

14       A.   In April in Mostar, I think it was the 4th of April, there was an

15    explosion when a cistern exploded and so there was no more school.  A

16    water tank exploded.

17       Q.   Now, you mention moving back to Mostar in May of 1992.  Why did

18    you move from Buna to Mostar in May 1992?

19       A.   The Serb army was at Buna, so we fled to Mostar.

20       Q.   And once again you mentioned in August of 1992 going back to Buna

21    from Mostar.  Why was that?

22       A.   That was because the joint forces of the BH army and the HVO had

23    liberated Buna and it was free and we could return there.

24       Q.   When you returned to Buna, was there any army presence in Buna at

25    that time?

Page 13047

 1       A.   Yes.

 2       Q.   Which army?

 3       A.   The Croatian Defence Council.

 4       Q.   And at that time when you had returned to Buna, what nationalities

 5    made up the HVO?

 6       A.   There were Muslims and Croats.

 7       Q.   Was there any other army in the area?

 8       A.   Not at Buna, no.

 9       Q.   What about outside Buna?

10       A.   Around Buna there was the BH army too.

11       Q.   What were relations between the HVO and the BiH army like at the

12    time when you went back to Buna?

13       A.   As far as I know they were good.

14       Q.   Did those relations between the two armies change?

15       A.   In March 1993.

16       Q.   What happened then?

17       A.   At the end of March or the beginning of April, the HVO attacked

18    the barracks at Gubavica which is where the BH army was located, and all

19    the soldiers, all the BH army soldiers were taken to prison.

20       Q.   Do you know which prison they were taken to?

21       A.   I really can't remember now.  I think it was either Gabela or

22    Dretelj.

23       Q.   Now, as far as your family are concerned, in June of 1993 did your

24    family have any contact with the HVO?

25       A.   No.

Page 13048

 1       Q.   Did your family ever have any contact at all with the HVO?

 2       A.   What kind of contact do you mean?

 3       Q.   Did any HVO members come to your family home?

 4       A.   Yes.

 5       Q.   And can you remember when that was?

 6       A.   Well, since our neighbours were in the HVO they came

 7    occasionally.

 8       Q.   Did you ever have any problems with the HVO when they came to your

 9    family home?

10       A.   Until the 30th of June, no.

11       Q.   And what happened on the 30th of June?

12       A.   On the 30th of June HVO soldiers came to our family home.  My

13    father was there, a neighbour who was also in the HVO, and my brothers, my

14    mother, and myself.  They pointed a finger at my father, the neighbour,

15    and myself, gesturing that we should follow them.  They said we would be

16    back soon after a brief questioning.  Then my mother said that I was only

17    16 and begged them to leave me alone, which they did.

18            They took my father and our neighbour, however, and as I later

19    found out, they took them to the military police station and left them

20    outside where other able-bodied men from Buna were also brought.

21       Q.   Now, just to pause there, how many HVO soldiers came to your home

22    on that day?

23       A.   I think two -- three.  One of them stayed in the car and two of

24    them got out.

25       Q.   And can you remember what they were wearing?

Page 13049

 1       A.   They wore camouflage uniforms with HVO insignia.

 2       Q.   You've mentioned that your father and a neighbour went to the

 3    military police station.  First of all, where was this military police

 4    station?

 5       A.   That military police station was not far from our house, maybe a

 6    hundred metres away, in a residential building.

 7       Q.   And you were just telling us that your father and neighbour were

 8    taken there and were gathered in front of the military police station with

 9    others.  Did your father and the neighbour remain there or did they return

10    to the house?

11       A.   They stayed there.

12       Q.   And what happened to them?

13       A.   Together with other able-bodied men they were put onto trucks and

14    taken to Dretelj.

15       Q.   How do you know that that's what happened to them?

16       A.   I didn't know then, but a couple of days later from talking to our

17    Croat neighbours we found out that they were in Dretelj and they were

18    treated well.

19       Q.   Now, earlier you were telling us that you left Buna in July of

20    1993.  Why did you leave Buna?  What happened?

21       A.   On the 14th of July, in the morning around 10.00 or 11.00,

22    military policemen of the HVO barged into our house.  There were three of

23    them.  One of them I believe came into our house and two stayed outside.

24    The first one pointed at my grandfather and myself asking us to identify

25    ourselves.  We did.  Then he asked who else was there in our house.  We

Page 13050

 1    said no one except for ourselves, our -- my mum, my brothers, and my

 2    grandma.

 3            They asked us if there were any Muslim troops around, and we said,

 4    of course, no.

 5       Q.   Now, these two or three that you mentioned came -- HVO that came

 6    to your house, again can you describe what they were wearing?

 7       A.   They were wearing camouflage uniforms with the insignia of the

 8    military police, HVO military police, on their sleeves.

 9            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, you are talking about

10    the insignia of the military police.  How do you distinguish the insignia

11    of the military police?

12            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On one shoulder you have the HVO

13    insignia and on the other shoulder there is a white emblem with a white

14    patch with VP on it.

15            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And you're positive?

16            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

17            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] There's no confusion, no

18    dilemma?  You are positive that the persons who came to your apartment had

19    this VP insignia on their shoulders?

20            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

21            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Wait a little.  We have another

22    question.

23            JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Did they come in a military truck

24    or in a military jeep or did they walk to your house?

25            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They walked.

Page 13051

 1            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You said a moment ago that the

 2    military police were in a building in Buna.  Did you see that building

 3    before?  Was there a flag?  Was there a sign, or was it just that

 4    everybody was saying the military police were located there?

 5            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I had seen that building before,

 6    that house before.  I knew to whom it belonged.  And while the military

 7    police was located there and our Croat neighbours were part of the

 8    military police, we the children knew that the military police were

 9    quartered there.

10            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You said some of your Croat

11    neighbours were in the military police.  Do you remember the names of

12    those Croat neighbours?

13            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do.  (redacted)

14            MS. GILLETT:  Your Honour, I'm sore why to intervene.  If the

15    witness is going to be mentioning names, it might be prudent to go into

16    private session perhaps.

17            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You're perfectly right.

18                          [Private session]

19  (redacted)

20  (redacted)

21  (redacted)

22  (redacted)

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Page 13052











11    Pages 13052-13054 redacted. Private session















Page 13055

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20                          [Open session]

21            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session.

22            MS. GILLETT:

23       Q.   And what was their response when you gave this reply?

24       A.   They insisted that we tell them who from the Muslim army had been

25    to our house.  We said, "No one."

Page 13056

 1       Q.   And what happened at that point?

 2       A.   At that point the soldiers took me and grandpa towards that

 3    building of the military police about a hundred metres away.

 4       Q.   And what happened to you when you got to the building of the

 5    military police?

 6       A.   When we got there, there was already a group of seven, eight

 7    soldiers there.  They made us lie down.  They hit us, and they kept asking

 8    the same questions.  I said again no one had been to our house except that

 9    soldier whose name I've mentioned.  And then they said, "Call him."

10            The man came.  They asked him, "Do you know these people?"  He

11    said, "Yes."  They asked, "Did you visit them?"  He said, "Yes."

12            The soldiers that had brought us told us we could go home, and as

13    we walked 20 metres away from the building they called us back.  I mean,

14    one of the soldiers who had brought us there.

15            When we returned to the building again there was no one save for

16    the three soldiers, and the soldier who identified us, who recognised us,

17    was not there.  Then they took us to the basement of that building.

18       Q.   Now, once again, when you first arrived at the military police

19    building, you mentioned there were seven or eight military police there.

20    Did you recognise any of these military police?

21       A.   No.

22       Q.   Now, you said that you were taken down to the basement.  What

23    happened in the basement?

24       A.   In the basement they handcuffed us and handcuffed us to each

25    other, back to back, and made us sit on a bucket.  Maybe half an hour

Page 13057

 1    later, a group of soldiers burst in.  We had to keep our heads down as

 2    they encircled us and began beating us.

 3       Q.   How many soldiers were there?

 4       A.   I couldn't tell you that.  A group.

 5       Q.   Are you able to give an approximate idea as to how many soldiers,

 6    whether it would have been 5, 10, 20?

 7       A.   Five, six.

 8       Q.   And were you able to see what -- how these soldiers were dressed,

 9    what they were wearing?

10       A.   What I could see were only boots and the camouflage uniform,

11    because as I said, we had to keep our heads down.

12       Q.   Now, you mentioned that these --

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, to the best of your

14    knowledge, because I wonder about the conduct of those soldiers who were

15    beating you, in your community in Buna or around were there any clashes

16    between the HVO and the ABiH, and would there have been any HVO soldiers

17    killed or injured, wounded by the ABiH?  As far as you know, of course.

18            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Possibly, because there were

19    skirmishes in the vicinity and there were casualties.

20            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Around the 14th of July?

21            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the 13th of July.

22            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And where exactly?

23            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think at Gubavica, because I later

24    found out that saboteurs had come to Gubavica at the separation line

25    between Gubavica and Blagaj.

Page 13058

 1            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] How many kilometres is Gubavica

 2    from Buna?

 3            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Maybe five, six.

 4            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So if I understood you well,

 5    from all you know there were ABiH saboteurs who had undertaken certain

 6    actions that had resulted in HVO losses on the 13th of July.  Is that what

 7    you're telling me?

 8            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

 9            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Prosecution should be asking

10    questions of that nature.

11            MS. GILLETT:  Thank you, Your Honour.  I'll bear that in mind.

12       Q.   Witness, you described that you were being beaten in the basement.

13    What were you being beaten with?

14       A.   The group that stormed in beat us with their fists and their

15    legs.

16       Q.   And how long did this last?

17       A.   Ten to 15 minutes.

18       Q.   Then what happened?

19       A.   Then they went outside and two soldiers returned a little later

20    on.  They took my handcuffs off and there happened to be a piece of

21    electric wiring there.  They told me to strip to the waist, and then one

22    of them hit me on the back about 20 times.

23       Q.   And what about your grandfather?  What was happening to him while

24    you were being beaten?

25       A.   They weren't able to unlock the handcuffs from one of his hands

Page 13059

 1    because they were very tightly shut.  So they gave him the key to unlock

 2    them himself, and during that time they were busy beating me.

 3       Q.   And how long did this beating last?

 4       A.   Well, about 20 blows.

 5       Q.   And what injuries did you sustain?

 6       A.   My back hurt me, my hands hurt me from the handcuffs.  I didn't

 7    feel anything.  Couldn't feel anything but the pain.

 8       Q.   How long did you remain in the basement?

 9       A.   We remained in the basement until dusk, when it started getting

10    dark.  That might have been 8.00 or 9.00.

11       Q.   And do you recall what time you were taken into the basement?

12       A.   At about 11.00.

13       Q.   Now, what happened at dusk?

14       A.   A soldier came in, took off our handcuffs -- or, rather, took

15    off my handcuffs first, took me outside into the yard in front of the

16    building where there was a sort of iron bed.  He tied me to that, put a

17    bucket on my head, and as far as I was able to see from underneath the

18    bucket and could hear the voices, there seemed to be a group of soldiers

19    there laughing, and they were hitting me.  Then in the meantime they

20    brought my grandfather there and they tied him up and put a bucket over

21    his head too.

22       Q.   How long did this last?

23       A.   Well, it lasted for about 10 minutes.

24       Q.   And again, were you -- were you able to see what these soldiers

25    were wearing?

Page 13060

 1       A.   All I could see was their boots, nothing else.

 2       Q.   Do you know to which group these soldiers belonged?

 3       A.   I don't know which group, but I think it was the military police

 4    because it was in that building.

 5       Q.   Do you know if there were any other groups that used that

 6    building?

 7       A.   As far as I know, no.

 8            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Sir, a moment ago I saw you and

 9    you were very tall.  You were at least 1 metre 90.  When you were 16, were

10    you that tall and well-built, or were you a little thinner then?

11            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.  I was a lot thinner.  I weighed

12    about 60 kilos.

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And when you were beaten, did

14    your grandfather say anything to the soldiers or you?  Did they -- did he

15    say that you were a child?  Did you tell them that you were a child?

16            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, of course.  We kept repeating

17    that again and again.  And you could also see that judging by my build.

18            MS. GILLETT:

19       Q.   Now, after this beating, what happened to you then, to you and

20    your grandfather?

21       A.   They loaded us up into a van of some kind.  There was a driver.

22    He was also a soldier.  And a co-driver, and one man sat behind us.  The

23    two of them had weapons.  And they told us that they were taking us either

24    to Heliodrom or to Dretelj.

25            When they drove us off, they took the main road which you -- which

Page 13061

 1    is the usual route to Dretelj, and somewhere at a distance of about 500

 2    metres at Buna you come across the first tunnel.  One of them said that

 3    there was a by-lane after the tunnel and that the driver should pull up

 4    there.

 5            They took us out and told us to turn our backs.

 6       Q.   Just pause for a moment.  As they took you out and told you to

 7    turn your backs, in which direction were you facing?  What was in front of

 8    you?

 9       A.   In front of us was the Neretva River and a 15-metre drop, and we

10    were on the very edge of that precipice.

11       Q.   In that area, are there any other buildings in the area?

12       A.   On this side of the river, no, there was not, but on the opposite

13    side you could see houses.

14       Q.   Are you able to describe approximately how far the other side of

15    the river was from where you and your grandfather were standing?

16       A.   About 40 to 50 metres.

17       Q.   Did all of the soldiers that were with you in the van get out of

18    the van or did some remain in the van?

19       A.   I know that the two men who were armed got out.  Whether the third

20    man got out or not, I don't know because we had our backs turned towards

21    them.

22       Q.   So what happened once you had turned your backs to these two

23    soldiers?

24       A.   We heard the cocking of weapons and then a burst of gunfire.  And

25    I felt a blow to my back, and from the blow I fell down into the abyss and

Page 13062

 1    started rolling down the hill until I touched water with my legs.  My

 2    grandfather stopped a little further up, halfway down, because a tree had

 3    blocked his fall.

 4            I heard death throes, my grandfather's death throes.  This might

 5    have went on for a minute or so, and then you couldn't hear anything after

 6    that.

 7            As I didn't hear that they had left and I was still conscious, I

 8    didn't dare make a noise.  I just lay there very quiet and still.  Then I

 9    heard the soldiers' voices, and I heard them coming down this precipice to

10    check to see whether we were actually dead.

11            They came down to my grandfather, and they laughed and looked

12    through his wallet, took his belt.  And as I was lying at the bottom, I

13    saw a flashlight.  I saw that they were searching for me with a

14    flashlight.  And as I had fallen behind a bush, they weren't able to reach

15    me down there, and they said, "Well, that's it.  It's over.  This one's

16    dead too."

17            MS. GILLETT:  Now, it might be prudent, Your Honour, if we might

18    pass briefly into private session.  I need to show the witness a document.

19            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, very well.

20                          [Private session]

21  (redacted)

22  (redacted)

23  (redacted)

24  (redacted)

25  (redacted)

Page 13063

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 6  (redacted)

 7                          [Open session]

 8            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We're in open session, Mr.

 9    President.

10            MS. GILLETT:

11       Q.   Now, Witness, you were describing that you were lying down at the

12    bottom near the water and that the soldiers had come down looking for you

13    and had considered that you were also dead.  Did the soldiers leave the

14    area at that point?

15       A.   Yes.

16       Q.   Now, what condition were you in?

17       A.   I felt pain.  I was all bloody.  I didn't know how many bullets

18    had hit me.  All I know is that in my chest area everything hurt and that

19    I was bleeding from that area.

20            I took off my jacket and tried to wipe the wound to see where I

21    had been hit.  There was blood coming out of the wound and air.  I found

22    it difficult to breathe.  So I pressed my jacket to my wound and found it

23    easier that way.

24       Q.   Once you'd attended to that injury, what did you do?

25       A.   Then slowly I made my way up the slope with a lot of pain, but

Page 13064

 1    somehow crawling on my knees I managed to get to the top and reached the

 2    place where they had shot at us.

 3            I saw some lights.  I saw some traffic lights, and I was afraid

 4    again, so I hid.  By the tunnel I saw a place where I thought I could

 5    hide.  I managed to crawl to the place, and that's when I lost

 6    consciousness.

 7       Q.   Now, after you lost consciousness, when were you next aware of

 8    what was going on around you?

 9       A.   I came to when I heard the sound of shooting from a cannon nearby

10    by the tunnel.  That's when I regained consciousness and saw that the sun

11    was already high up in the sky and that it was fairly hot.

12            I stayed there for about half an hour, and then I was thirsty so I

13    went down to the river again to drink my fill.  I kept pressing the jacket

14    to my wound.

15            When I set off towards the river, passing by the main road, two

16    cars turned up.  One was an ambulance, and the other was a civilian van

17    with the Red Cross emblem on it.  When they saw me all bloody like that,

18    they stopped and they immediately rushed out of the car.  The people from

19    the van came out with a rifle because they didn't know who I was.  They

20    asked me whether I was a sabotage, had anything to do with sabotage, and I

21    said, "No, I'm a civilian."  And I said I had been shot there together

22    with my grandfather, that the HVO military police had shot us.

23            They didn't know what to do until the woman from the ambulance

24    said that I should be driven to Capljina.

25       Q.   Now, do you know where these Red Cross people were from, what

Page 13065

 1    nationality they were?

 2       A.   I don't know who they were.

 3            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a moment.  There seems to

 4    be some confusion.  Perhaps it's a result of the interpretation.  There

 5    seem to be two vehicles passing by, one an ambulance and the other a van.

 6    And you said that when the people in these vehicles saw you in that

 7    condition they came out straight away.  And then on page -- on line 20 of

 8    page 31, you said that they had a rifle.

 9            Now, I don't understand.  Can you be more specific?  So if they

10    had a rifle, they must have been soldiers.

11            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They were wearing camouflage

12    uniform, but they had the Red Cross emblem on their shoulders.

13            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And they also had a rifle, did

14    they?

15            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

16            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And what about the woman?  Was

17    she wearing camouflage uniform or civilian clothing?

18            THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] She had on a camouflage uniform as

19    well.

20            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

21            MS. GILLETT:

22       Q.   Are you able to say whether these persons from the Red Cross,

23    whether they were from Bosnia and Herzegovina or whether they were from

24    outside the country?

25       A.   The woman, I think, was from Buna, as far as I was able to gather.

Page 13066

 1    She sort of seemed familiar.  Whereas the others, I don't know who they

 2    were.

 3       Q.   Now, you mentioned that the woman suggested you being taken to

 4    Capljina.  How long did you spend in Capljina?

 5       A.   In Capljina they stop the bleeding.  They put me on an IV drip and

 6    transported me in the ambulance to Metkovic.

 7       Q.   And where in Capljina were you treated?

 8       A.   I don't really know.  It was a sort of outpatients' clinic or

 9    dispensary or something like that.

10       Q.   Now, the ambulance that took you to Metkovic, where did it take

11    you to exactly in Metkovic?

12       A.   It was the war hospital in Metkovic, which is what I gathered from

13    what people said later on.  Below the department store in Metkovici.  It

14    was or the of a makeshift hospital in the basement.

15       Q.   Was this war hospital, was it a civilian-run war hospital or

16    military run?

17       A.   As far as the nurses are concerned, I didn't know whether they

18    were civilian or military doctors or what, because they were wearing white

19    coats.  The patients were mostly soldiers, however.

20       Q.   And soldiers of which nationality?

21       A.   Croatian.

22       Q.   And the nurses and the doctors that were treating you, which

23    nationality were they?

24       A.   Also Croatian.

25       Q.   What treatment did you receive when you were in the war hospital

Page 13067

 1    in Metkovic?

 2       A.   They operated on me straight away and then took me back to a room

 3    and put me in bed.

 4       Q.   And how long did you stay in Metkovic war hospital?

 5       A.   I stayed in Metkovic for two days until the situation worsened,

 6    and then they transferred me to the hospital in Split.

 7       Q.   Just to pick up on that, when you say "until the situation

 8    worsened," are you referring to your own health or something else?

 9       A.   My health.

10       Q.   So you went to the Split hospital, and how long were you in the

11    hospital in Split?

12       A.   I was at the Split hospital, in the intensive care unit for five

13    days, and then I was there for another seven days, I think.

14       Q.   And what other patients were in the hospital in Split?

15       A.   In Split there were other patients who were Croats who were

16    brought in from Central Bosnia, and they were in the room together with

17    me, lying in bed.

18       Q.   Where did you go after your stay in Split hospital?

19       A.   After my stay in the Split hospital I was supposed to leave the

20    hospital because my health situation had improved.  However, I didn't have

21    anywhere to go.  So the personnel in the hospital contacted the Merhamet

22    Split organisation to come and get me.  They came to fetch me and

23    transported me to a hotel of some kind in Omis.  It was a private hotel

24    paid for by the Igasa organisation.  There were other people who had been

25    wounded there and treated there, Muslims, who before the conflict with the

Page 13068

 1    Croats in Bosnia were brought into Croatia and treated there, so they

 2    couldn't go back any more.

 3       Q.   Now, during this period when -- from when you and your grandfather

 4    were taken away and shot and throughout the period of your convalescence,

 5    what happened to the rest of your family, to your mother, your brothers,

 6    and also your grandmother during that period?

 7       A.   When they took us away that day, several hours later the same

 8    soldier who took us away came to my mother's house and laughed.  She asked

 9    where we were and what had happened to us, and he said that perhaps we

10    were in Capljina or perhaps in Dretelj.

11       Q.   Do you know the name of this soldier?

12       A.   Afterwards, from what people said --

13            THE ACCUSED PRALJAK: [Interpretation] We're in open session, Your

14    Honours, if you're going to name names.

15            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes.  Let's move into private

16    session.

17                          [Private session]

18  (redacted)

19  (redacted)

20  (redacted)

21  (redacted)

22  (redacted)

23  (redacted)

24  (redacted)

25  (redacted)

Page 13069











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14  (redacted)

15                          [Open session]

16            THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session now, Mr.

17    President.

18            MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation]

19       Q.   You told us today that in June 1992, the area of Mostar and Buna

20    was liberated from the Serb army and that the HVO moved into the territory

21    of Buna, the HVO then consisting of the joint forces of Muslims and

22    Croats.  Is that correct?

23       A.   Yes.

24       Q.   Muslim men from Buna were members of the HVO at the time, weren't

25    they?

Page 13077

 1       A.   They were.

 2       Q.   Can you tell us how many Muslim men were in the HVO at the time?

 3       A.   I wouldn't know.

 4       Q.   Can you give us an order of magnitude?  Dozens or perhaps

 5    individuals?

 6       A.   Dozens.

 7       Q.   Can we get an approximate number?  How many dozens?  Would it be

 8    correct to say 120 or maybe around a hundred?

 9       A.   Possibly.

10       Q.   Those Muslim men from Buna, did they continue in the HVO until the

11    end of the war or did something happen in the meantime?

12       A.   They were disarmed before the 30th of June, prior to being taken

13    to Dretelj.

14       Q.   Could you clarify that?  Before the 30th of June?  When were they

15    disarmed?  Can you give us some names, describe the circumstances under

16    which they were disarmed?

17       A.   Yes, I can.

18       Q.   If you can, then we can perhaps move into private session.

19            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Private session.

20                          [Private session]

21  (redacted)

22  (redacted)

23  (redacted)

24  (redacted)

25  (redacted)

Page 13078











11    Pages 13078-13090 redacted. Private session















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25                          [Open session]

Page 13092

 1            THE REGISTRAR:  We're in open session, Mr. President.

 2            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In open session I gave the floor

 3    to the Prosecution for the brief summary under 92 ter of the Rules of

 4    Procedure and Evidence.

 5            MS. EGELS:  Thank you, Your Honour.

 6                          Examination by Ms. Egels:

 7            MS. EGELS:  In 1993, the witness was a resident of West Mostar.

 8    On 9 May 1993, members of the HVO military police came to her apartment

 9    and searched for weapons.  In the following few days, numerous HVO

10    soldiers came to the apartment pressuring her to move out.

11            On the 25th of May, 1993, the witness and her husband moved out of

12    their apartment to the village of Rastani.

13            In the early hours of the 24th of August, 1993, the HVO launched

14    an attack on Rastani which, until that date, had been under the control of

15    the ABiH.  The witness went to a neighbour's house where she stayed with

16    other people from the village.  Around midday, a group of HVO soldiers

17    surrounded the house, fired a smoke grenade into the house, and demanded

18    the occupants to surrender or they would set fire on the house.  The

19    witness and the other occupants surrendered, and the HVO soldiers

20    separated the men from the women and children.  One of the men held his

21    hands up to surrender, and the witness saw an HVO soldier shoot and kill

22    him.  The same soldier ordered the witness and the others to be taken

23    behind the house and killed.  One of those others was another man.  He was

24    taken behind the house and was also shot and killed by the same HVO

25    soldier.  The witness and others were then searched by the HVO soldiers,

Page 13093

 1    and their valuables were stolen.  The witness and others then fled by

 2    crossing the river while the village was being shelled.  They were shot at

 3    from behind during the whole time they were running.

 4       Q.   Good afternoon, Witness CZ.

 5       A.   Good afternoon.

 6       Q.   Witness, you provided a written statement to the investigators of

 7    the Office of the Prosecutor of the ICTY on the 1st of October, 1998; is

 8    that correct?

 9       A.   That's correct.

10       Q.   When you provided this statement, did you provide it freely?  That

11    is, without coercion?

12       A.   Yes.

13       Q.   When you provided that statement did you provide it truthfully?

14       A.   Yes, I did.

15       Q.   At the conclusion of that interview with the investigator was your

16    statement read back to you into the Bosnian language?

17       A.   Yes.

18       Q.   Did you then sign the English statement?

19       A.   I don't remember that.

20            MS. EGELS:  Your Honour, could we go briefly into private session

21    so that we can show an exhibit to the witness, please?

22            JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes.  Private session, please.

23            MS. EGELS:  Could the Witness --

24                          [Private session]

25   (redacted)

Page 13094











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21                          --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.58 p.m.,

22                          to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 30th day

23                          of January, 2007, at 9.00 a.m.