Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 50899

 1                           Monday, 15 March 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The Accused Praljak and Pusic not present]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 2.18 p.m.

 6             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Registrar, can you kindly call

 7     the case, please.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  Good afternoon,

 9     everyone in and around the courtroom.

10             This is case number IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus

11     Prlic et al.  Thank you, Your Honours.

12             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.

13             Today is Monday, the 15th of March, 2010.  I would, first of all,

14     like to greet the accused who are present in the courtroom.  I have noted

15     that Mr. Pusic and Mr. Praljak are not present.  I would like to greet

16     Defence counsel, all the representatives of the OTP, as well as all the

17     people assisting us.

18             I believe that the Registrar has an IC number to give us.

19             THE REGISTRAR:  Yes, Your Honour.

20             The Coric Defence has submitted their list of documents tendered

21     through Witness Miroslav Desnica.  This list shall be given

22     Exhibit IC01202.  Thank you, Your Honours.

23             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.

24             We shall bring the witness into the courtroom.  But before that,

25     I need to hand down an oral decision which I shall read out slowly.

Page 50900

 1             Oral decision ordering the Petkovic Defence a dead-line to file a

 2     written submission on the admission of evidence pursuant to Guide-line 9

 3     of the decision of the 24th of April, 2008.

 4             At the hearing of 11th of March, 2010, the Petkovic Defence

 5     stated, having finished the presentation of its case, and asked whether

 6     the Trial Chamber could specify on what date the filing of a request to

 7     admit the evidence.  It is a decision of 8th of February, 2010.  The

 8     Trial Chamber had already asked the Petkovic Defence to disclose, in the

 9     shortest time possible, a date on which it may perhaps file a written

10     motion pursuant to Guide-line 9 of decision rendered on the 24th of

11     April, 2008.  In this oral decision, the Trial Chamber emphasised the

12     fact that whatever the case may be, these motions needed to be filed

13     before the end of the presentation of the Petkovic Defence's case.

14             At the hearing of 17th of February, 2010, the Petkovic Defence

15     had told the Trial Chamber that it would file such a written motion on

16     the last day of Milivoj Petkovic's testimony, i.e., at the time on the

17     1st of March, 2010, or that it would request an extension of the

18     dead-line to file such a motion.

19             In light of the dead-lines imposed by the Trial Chamber in its

20     oral decision of 8th of February, 2010, the Trial Chamber holds that this

21     application, filed by the Petkovic Defence, arrived rather late in time

22     and should have been filed before the end of its case.  Therefore, the

23     Trial Chamber holds that only a short dead-line may be granted to the

24     Petkovic Defence to file a written motion pursuant to Guide-line 9 and,

25     therefore, orders the Petkovic Defence to file such a motion by the

Page 50901

 1     22nd of March, 2010, at the latest.

 2             In short, the Petkovic Defence must file its motion by the

 3     22nd of March, 2010, to admit its evidence pursuant to Guide-line 9.

 4             Have you understood, Ms. Alaburic?

 5                           [The witness entered court]

 6             MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, good afternoon.

 7             Of course, I understand your decision, and we will be filing a

 8     motion by that date.  I thought that it was understood that we asked for

 9     a fortnight from the time that the Petkovic Defence case ends, and I

10     apologise if there was a misunderstanding.  But, yes, that time, a week,

11     will be sufficient.  Thank you.

12             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Andabak, could you stand

13     up, please.

14             Could you give me your first name, last name, and date of birth,

15     please.

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am Zdenko Andabak, born on the

17     21st of November, 1968, in Livno.

18             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your occupation

19     currently, sir?

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am a retired colonel.

21             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, have you already

22     testified before a court of law, or is it the first time that you're

23     testifying today, on those facts that took place in the former

24     Yugoslavia?

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I've never testified before.  This

Page 50902

 1     is the first time.

 2             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could you please read the text

 3     of the solemn declaration.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

 5     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 6                           WITNESS:  ZDENKO ANDABAK

 7                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 8             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Okay, Colonel, you may sit

 9     down.

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

11             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, just some information

12     I'd like to share with you.

13             You are a witness of Mr. Valentin Coric's Defence.  You will be

14     answering questions which will be put to you in a moment by Ms. Tomic,

15     who is Mr. Coric's lawyer, and she will show you documents contained in

16     the binder which you should have or which you will be given a little

17     later.  Once those questions are finished, the other Defence counsel may

18     then also put questions to you as part of time allotted to them already,

19     and the Prosecutor, who's sitting on your right-hand side, will have two

20     hours to cross-examine you.  If need be, Ms. Tomic will be entitled to

21     put extra questions to you.

22             The three Judges sitting before you - we are four Judges

23     normally; that is not the case today - may at any time put questions to

24     you.  Usually, these are questions designed to clarify the contents of

25     those documents we have before us.

Page 50903

 1             Try and be as accurate as you possibly can when you answer.  If

 2     there is a question you don't understand, please don't hesitate to ask

 3     the person who has put it to you to rephrase it, even if it is a Judge.

 4             You are now a witness of the Court, since you have taken the

 5     solemn declaration.  You will be testifying until Thursday.  That said,

 6     there will be no hearing tomorrow.  Until Thursday, you must not contact

 7     Mr. Valentin Coric's Defence.

 8             We have a break -- a 20-minute break every hour and a half so

 9     that you can have a break and that we can change our tapes.  If for any

10     particular reason you wish to stop, raise your hand and we will then have

11     a break.  You will soon realise that it is extremely exhausting to answer

12     questions at length by questions put to you by counsel, Prosecutors and

13     Judges.  So far, everyone has managed to cope with this without any

14     problems whatsoever, which I hope you will be able to do also.

15             This is what I wanted to share with you so that this hearing

16     unfolds in the best conditions possible.  We all have the establishment

17     of the truth in mind.

18             Ms. Coric [as interpreted], you have the floor.

19             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon,

20     Your Honours.  Good afternoon to everybody in the courtroom.

21                           Examination by Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic

22        Q.   [Interpretation] Good afternoon to you too, Mr. Andabak.

23        A.   Good afternoon.

24             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] May the witness be

25     provided with the binder and the documents.  And with the Trial Chamber's

Page 50904

 1     permission, I'd like to ask some leading questions to begin with - the

 2     Prosecution does not object - linked to the witness's career in the HVO

 3     and afterwards.

 4        Q.   Mr. Andabak, I'm going to read out a brief CV listing your

 5     positions in the HVO.  And having done that, I'm going to ask you whether

 6     that is correct.

 7             In May 1992, you became commander of a company of the military

 8     police, attached to the Brigade of the Municipal Staff of the HVO of

 9     Livno, and you remained in that post until the 1st of July, 1992, when

10     you became commander of the military police in the operative group called

11     North-East Herzegovina.  And you remained in that post until the 25th of

12     November, 1992, when you became commander of the 2nd Battalion of the

13     Military Police, staying in that position until 1993, when you became

14     chief of the traffic police -- general and traffic police.  And you

15     remained in that post until the 28th of June, 1993, when you became

16     assistant head of the Military Police Administration for the

17     North-East Herzegovina Operative Zone.  And you remained in that post

18     until the end of November 1993, when you once again became commander of

19     the 2nd Military Police Battalion.  In March 1994, you were appointed

20     chief of the general military police in the Military Police

21     Administration of the HVO, and from the military police of the HVO you

22     left on the 30th of June, 1994, to join the MUP, and you remained there

23     until 2001, when you joined the Armed Forces of the Army of the

24     Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina, in the Command for Training and

25     Doctrine.  And you remained there until November 2007, when you retired

Page 50905

 1     with the rank of colonel in the Armed Forces of Bosnia-Herzegovina, from

 2     the post of commander, the Centre for Combat Simulation, attached to the

 3     Command for Training and Doctrine in Banja Luka.

 4             Is that all correct?  Everything that I've read out, is it

 5     correct?

 6        A.   Yes, everything that you've just read out is correct.

 7        Q.   To start off with now, linked to your CV, I would like us to look

 8     at a few documents, and they are in the order in which I shall be asking

 9     you about them.  I'm going to ask you whether the documents refer to your

10     CV and the various appointments that we just listed.

11             In order to do that, look at PD02164 [as interpreted] first,

12     please.  5D is the number, 5D2164, 02164.  The next document is P00803

13     and then P01460, P02230, P02963, P02996, and, finally, 5D05084.

14             Mr. Andabak, are those all documents which relate to the

15     biographical data I presented earlier on?

16        A.   Yes, those are the documents.

17        Q.   Tell us now, please, Mr. Andabak, in 1992 did a provision exist

18     regulating the military police organisation, control and command of the

19     military police, and the remit and tasks of the military police?

20        A.   As far as I remember, from April 1992 there were rules and

21     regulations governing the establishment of the military police, signed by

22     the president, Mate Boban.

23        Q.   Now look at the document P00143, please.

24             Have you found the document?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 50906

 1        Q.   Will you tell the Court what document this is?  What is it?

 2        A.   It is provisional instructions for the work of the military

 3     police units of the Croatian Defence Council in the Croatian Community of

 4     Herceg-Bosna, and they are instructions for the work of the military

 5     police.

 6        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, were you acquainted with these

 7     instructions?

 8        A.   Yes, I was, and so were the officers from the military police

 9     subordinate to me.

10        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, according to these instructions,

11     how was the military police organised?

12        A.   In April 1992, the military police was organised on the basis of

13     municipal staffs of the HVO, which meant that members of the military

14     police were within the local brigades and their headquarters acting in a

15     given area.

16        Q.   Now, with these instructions, did they regulate the relationships

17     between the Military Police Administration and the military police on the

18     ground?

19        A.   Yes, these instructions did regulate that relationship, and the

20     military police had the duty of waging cadres policy on the ground; that

21     is to say, appointments, dismissals, disciplinary measures, and so on and

22     so forth.  And it was there to see to the equipment, and uniforms, and

23     professional training for the military police.

24        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, in that year, 1992, how was command

25     of the military police regulated?  Who commanded the military police, in

Page 50907

 1     actual fact?  Who was in command?  Who was your commander?

 2        A.   At that time in 1992, command of the military police was carried

 3     out through the brigade command in the area where the military police was

 4     active.

 5        Q.   Mr. Andabak, take a look at the next document, please.

 6             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment, please, Colonel.

 7             Your answer lies at the heart of the issue here, the police and

 8     the military brigade.  I would like you to look at number 4 of the

 9     document we have before us on page 0040 [as interpreted], 737 in the

10     English version.  Let me state the number again, 40, 737, 737.  Look at

11     number 4.

12             In the English as we have it on the screen, it begins with:  "All

13     military police units ...," under item 4.  And in your language, I would

14     be incapable of telling you what it says.  It must be, I believe, under

15     item 4 also in your language.  What does this mean, this here?  What is

16     the exact meaning of this?

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This means that the commander -- a

18     commander of an OG is also in command of the military police, in

19     operative terms, in the field.  Since military police units were attached

20     to the brigades of the municipal headquarters of the HVO, that means that

21     the OG commander was the factual commander of the military police.  But

22     at that moment, the military police units in the field were subordinate

23     to the brigades.

24             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you are saying that the

25     military police is subordinated to the brigade; is that right?  That is

Page 50908

 1     on line 21 of page 9.  That was my question for you.

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, thank you.

 3             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   Mr. Andabak, in order to clarify the meaning of "operative

 5     command," tell us, please, whether that means operative command in combat

 6     or in general terms.  What is the precise explanation for the term

 7     "operative command"?

 8        A.   "Operative command" means to carry out all daily policing jobs,

 9     extraordinary tasks, and combat tasks in an area of responsibility.

10        Q.   And now please look at the following document, which is P008 --

11             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Excuse me.

12             I think if we want to be complete, we should also look at

13     paragraph 5, the next one, in the same document, which says, and I quote:

14             "The commanders of smaller units shall be held responsible for

15     their work and for carrying out their tasks to the commander of the

16     military police battalion, who, in turn, shall be responsible to the

17     Military Police Administration."

18             If one looks at these two, one gets the impression that there is

19     a double chain of responsibility, one within the military command that

20     would go up to the supreme military commander, and the other one to the

21     Military Police Administration, and I think it would be helpful if you

22     could explain to the Chamber the difference, what characterises one or

23     the other.

24             Now, it is possible, Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, that you have this

25     question somewhere in your list, and in that case I would just have it on

Page 50909

 1     record and wait until it fits into your plan.

 2             I see that you are nodding.  So, Witness, you are at this moment

 3     relieved of answering my question, because it will come from your

 4     counsel.  Thank you.

 5             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I don't see

 6     an obstacle for the witness to answer.  It was very much in line with our

 7     plan, anyway, so he can explain.

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It is true that commanders were

 9     subordinated to the units of the military police, in my operative zone

10     were responsible to me and answerable to me, but I, in turn, was

11     answerable to -- for reporting to the Administration of the Military

12     Police by means of daily report and inform them about the activities of

13     the military police in my field, i.e., in the field of the OG.

14             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  I let you go on, Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, because

15     you're probably aware of the fact that this does not exhaust the problem,

16     but I do not want to interfere excessively with your own work.

17             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] And now let's look at

18     P00837.

19        Q.   Are you familiar with this document?  This is another instruction

20     for the work of military police units, dating back to the month of

21     November 1992.  Are you acquainted with this document?

22        A.   Yes, I am familiar with the instructions.

23        Q.   Mr. Andabak, when it comes to this instruction, did anything

24     change, in practical terms, in the field, in terms of the organisation

25     and command and control of the military police?

Page 50910

 1        A.   No, as a matter of fact, nothing changed.  The military police

 2     companies were united, but in terms of the system of control and command,

 3     nothing changed.  The administration still had the same authorities and

 4     competencies, and I, as the commander of that military -- of that

 5     battalion, was subordinated to the military commander in the area where I

 6     was active.

 7        Q.   Mr. Andabak, you've just told us about operative command, and you

 8     said that your operative commander was the commander of the OG or the

 9     operative zone.  Did you also receive orders from the Military Police

10     administration, and if you did, what kind of orders those were?

11        A.   We received orders from the Military Police Administration as

12     well.  Those were in form of regulations and instructions about, for

13     example, blockades or, for example, if we were to carry out an escort

14     duty for military vehicles or transports, if we were to protect foreign

15     officials, and if that was to be done by the military police, those were

16     the kind of orders we received, but those were very few and far between.

17        Q.   Mr. Andabak, who did you report to about your work?  Who were you

18     answerable to you, in practical terms, in the field?  Could you describe

19     the situation for us?

20        A.   I was the commander of the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police

21     in the North-West Herzegovina OG, and I was under the command of the OG

22     North-West Herzegovina or, rather, OZ, not Herzegovina, whose commander

23     was Zeljko Siljeg, headquartered in Tomislavgrad.

24        Q.   I'm going to give you an example.  For example, you refused to

25     carry out Mr. Siljeg's order, you don't carry that order out, or you do

Page 50911

 1     something which you are not supposed to do or you're not allowed to do.

 2     What will happen to you?  Whose duty will it be to deal with your

 3     omission or your breach of discipline?

 4        A.   The commander of the operations zone will certainly file the

 5     report against me to the Main Staff, and then the Main Staff will inform

 6     the Military Police Administration, because the Military Police

 7     Administration appointed me as a battalion commander, and there will

 8     probably be disciplinary proceedings against me or a criminal report if I

 9     committed a crime.  So it will be either the commander of the operative

10     zone or his assistant for security.

11        Q.   Thank you very much.  Mr. Andabak, let's look at the following

12     document.  And while you are looking for it, let me say that this is

13     P00957.

14             Have you got it?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   And can you describe the document for us?

17        A.   Yes, I've got the document, and the document is the organisation

18     of the HVO in late 1992, and that was in effect as of the 1st of January,

19     1993.

20        Q.   Mr. Andabak, according to this organisation scheme, how was the

21     military police of the HVO organised and how was the situation on the

22     ground, in factual terms?

23        A.   According to that organisation, in addition to the

24     Military Police Administration there were also five military police

25     battalions of which the first one was an active battalion, and it was

Page 50912

 1     under the direct command of the Military Police Administration.  A

 2     novelty in this organisation was that that battalion was active in the

 3     entire territory of the HZ-HB.

 4        Q.   What does it mean when you say that it was under the direct

 5     command of the Military Police Administration?

 6        A.   That means that the chief of the Military Police Administration

 7     could send that battalion to any region pursuant to an order of the

 8     Main Staff of the HVO.

 9        Q.   Mr. Andabak, when that first active battalion arrived in a region

10     pursuant to such an order, who was its commander, under whose command was

11     it?

12        A.   If that first active battalion was to report to the OZ North-West

13     Herzegovina, the commander of the 1st Battalion, pursuant to that order,

14     would report to me.  I would be responsible to receive that battalion,

15     and the orders and sending them to carry out a regular task or a combat

16     task was something that the commander of the OZ North-West Herzegovina

17     would give them if they arrived in our territory.

18        Q.   Now, Mr. Andabak, let's look at the second page in the Croatian

19     version.  In English, it's also page 2, towards the bottom of the page.

20     At the beginning of the second page, if you look at it, you will see

21     reference made to the 2nd Battalion, headquartered in Tomislavgrad, and

22     covering the OZ North-West Herzegovina.  Would that be the battalion that

23     you have just been telling us about and whose commander you were?

24        A.   Yes, that's the battalion, but its headquarters were not in

25     Tomislavgrad but in Livno.  That was the change that was effected.  And

Page 50913

 1     Livno is also in that same OZ.

 2        Q.   Mr. Andabak, how was your battalion made up?  What did it consist

 3     of?

 4        A.   My battalion was made up of the Command, the Crime Department,

 5     the Communications Department, and three detachments of the military

 6     police, and also Operative Duty Service.

 7        Q.   Mr. Andabak, I can see here in the first sentence a reference

 8     being made to six brigade platoons of the military police, and somewhat

 9     further down in this same paragraph it says that there are six

10     independent brigade platoons of the military police in the battalion.

11     They were also on the strength of the brigades in the

12     North-West Herzegovina OZ.  Could you please explain to the Trial Chamber

13     how come that it says first that they were on your strength and then

14     later on it says that they were on the strength of the brigades?  Can you

15     explain that for us and tell us how it actually was in the field?

16        A.   Since the organisation applied to the whole strength of the

17     military police, and those six brigade platoons were deployed in the OZ,

18     where the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police was also deployed, that's

19     why they are listed here.  The 2nd Battalion of the Military Police had

20     nothing whatsoever to do with the brigade platoons.  And as you will see

21     further on, they were on the strength of their respective brigades and

22     they were responsible to them and answerable for them for their work.

23        Q.   Mr. Andabak, in 1993, after this organisation came into effect,

24     who was your operative commander?

25        A.   As I have already said it before, I'm repeating it again.  My

Page 50914

 1     operative commander was the OZ North-West Herzegovina, where I was

 2     deployed and where I was active.

 3        Q.   Let's look at the following document, Mr. Andabak, which is

 4     P00960.  The title of the document is "Instructions on the Implementation

 5     of the New Organisational Scheme of the Military Police Units."  The

 6     document was issued in December 1992.  On page 2 in the Croatian version,

 7     and also in the English version, it says that:

 8             "We propose that commissions be set up consisting of the

 9     following members, for the purpose of the reorganisation of VP units."

10             And then it says for the battalions, the president of the

11     commission, the commander, and other members are mentioned; the commander

12     of the OZ, an officer from the Military Police Administration.  And a few

13     paragraphs later, it says that the appointment of officers and commanders

14     shall be carried out in keeping with the decision on the internal

15     organisation of the Defence Department after the 10th of January, 1993.

16     Until that moment, commissions from each OZ have to submit their

17     co-ordinated proposals for the command and officers' positions in the OZ.

18             Tell me, Mr. Andabak -- we see that the commander of the military

19     police battalion is mentioned as the chairman of the commission, and you

20     say that you were the commander of the MP battalion.  Do you remember

21     this, and was this ever implemented, the instructions that we have just

22     read out in this document?

23        A.   I remember this document.  This was implemented as is stated in

24     the order.

25        Q.   And now let's look at the following document in your binder,

Page 50915

 1     which is PD00538 [as interpreted] -- 5D00538.  These are the minutes from

 2     the co-ordination with the commanders in the North-West Herzegovina OZ,

 3     dated 9th of March, 1993.  Mr. Andabak, were you present during this

 4     co-ordination meeting, and in what capacity, if you were?

 5        A.   I attended the meeting in the OZ in Tomislavgrad as the chief of

 6     general and traffic police, which means that I represented the

 7     MP Administration.

 8        Q.   Could you please tell us what you discussed at the meeting and

 9     why you attended the meeting?

10        A.   As can be seen from the document, the first item was organisation

11     and tasks of the military police, and the commander of the operative zone

12     wanted to take advantage of this opportunity to inform all the commanders

13     that he was in command of any OZ about the establishment of the military

14     police, its organisation, from the beginning of 1993.

15        Q.   Fine, Mr. Andabak.  We can move on to the next document, which is

16     P03000.  This is a document entitled "Information" about changes in the

17     military police establishment, dated the 28th of June, 1993.  Tell me

18     whether you knew about these changes in establishment and organisation?

19     And if so, what changes took place?

20        A.   I did know about this organisation and notification.  As the

21     result of the escalation of the Croatian-Bosnian conflict, light assault

22     brigades were established, battalions, for each operative zone in the

23     HZ-HB.  And in addition to the light assault battalions, we also had the

24     active-duty military police battalions working in the individual zones.

25     And another innovation was that assistant commanders, or, rather, heads

Page 50916

 1     of the military police commanders for the operative zones were appointed.

 2        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, it says here -- well, when I read

 3     out your CV, as far as I remember, you were assistant head of the --

 4     assistant head at the time?

 5        A.   Yes, I was.

 6        Q.   It says here, at the end of that page:

 7             "Joining up the military police activities of the light assault

 8     battalion and the BP Battalion within the corresponding operations zone

 9     shall be conducted by the assistant head of the Military Police

10     Administration responsible for that zone, who is also authorised to

11     command the battalions."

12             Tell us what that means.  What was your job as assistant chief?

13        A.   I was a co-ordinator between the 2nd Light Assault Military

14     Police Battalion and the 6th Battalion, when it came to commanding, so I

15     was -- the commander of the operative zone issued assignments to me for

16     the military police in the operative zone, and I would convey this to the

17     light assault battalion, pass it on, and the command of the 6th Light

18     Assault Battalion.

19        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, as commander of a battalion,

20     throughout your career in the military police did you attend any meetings

21     at the level of the Military Police Administration?

22        A.   Well, according to our monthly plan and programme, we had one

23     meeting a month with the Military Police Administration, that is to say,

24     the chief of the Military Police Administration, and the chief of the

25     General and Traffic Department, and so on.

Page 50917

 1        Q.   And what would you discuss at those meetings?

 2        A.   We mostly analysed reports from the previous month and decided

 3     upon the activities we would undertake in the forthcoming period, with

 4     the conclusions made -- that is to say, we made conclusions as to who

 5     would do what.  And among other things, we also discussed the problem of

 6     the military -- the problems that the military police encountered on the

 7     ground.  We discussed logistics for the military police, care of the

 8     wounded members of the military police, as well as assistance to families

 9     of killed policemen.

10        Q.   Would you now take a look at document P08 -- P0869 [as

11     interpreted], and tell the Court -- P05869 is the document number.  Could

12     you tell the Court what document this is, just briefly?  Do you recognise

13     it, and what is it about?

14        A.   I recognise the document.  It's an excerpt from the minutes of

15     one of our monthly meetings, regular monthly meetings.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Now look at the next document, which is P04947, and

17     I'm going to ask you the same question.  Are you familiar and do you

18     recognise this document?  Do you know what it's about?

19        A.   Yes, it's the same document with another date or, rather, a

20     meeting held in a different month.

21        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Andabak.  Let's move on to the next document.

22     P00781 is the number, and this is a document from the commander of the

23     Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina.  It is a report on the

24     establishment of commands for the North-East Herzegovina Operative Zone.

25     It says here that within the establishment system of the

Page 50918

 1     North-West Herzegovina area, the following units are included.  And under

 2     number 9, it says:

 3             "The 2nd Military Police Battalion - Livno."

 4             Tell us, Mr. Andabak, the 2nd Military Police Battalion of Livno,

 5     was it within the establishment of this or not?  And if it was, what does

 6     that mean, that it was part of the establishment or organisation?

 7        A.   Yes, the 2nd Military Police Battalion in the operative zone was

 8     within the composition of the operative zone, as it says here.  And as

 9     I've already said before, I was re-subordinated to the commander of the

10     operative zone in carrying out my tasks and assignments.

11        Q.   Mr. Andabak, a few minutes ago you told us that the brigade

12     platoons of the military police were within the composition of the

13     brigades.  Tell us now, please, who appointed commanders to the brigade

14     platoons of the military police in your operative zone?

15        A.   In North-West Herzegovina's operative zone, the commanders for

16     the brigade military police was appointed -- were appointed by the

17     commander of the brigade, and he could also dismiss them if they failed

18     to carry out their assignments.

19        Q.   Did you, yourself, appoint anyone from the Military Police

20     Administration?

21             THE INTERPRETER:  Could counsel repeat that question, please?

22     Could counsel repeat her question?

23             THE WITNESS:  [No interpretation]

24             JUDGE PRANDLER:  The translators ask you to repeat your

25     questions, please.  Thank you.

Page 50919

 1             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

 2        Q.   My question was as follows, and I repeat:  Did you, or anybody

 3     else from the Military Police Administration, appoint a commander of a

 4     platoon belonging to the brigade military police in the Operative Zone of

 5     North-West Herzegovina?

 6        A.   I don't know.  I didn't, I didn't appoint anyone, and I also know

 7     that the Military Police Administration didn't appoint commanders of the

 8     brigade military police.

 9        Q.   Now, Mr. Andabak, would you take a look at document P0 --

10             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, I look at this

11     document, P00781.  The good thing about this document is that we can see

12     that the 2nd Military Police Battalion reports to the commander of the

13     operative zone; namely, Colonel Siljeg.  This is written in black and

14     white.  I will give you an example just for argument's sake.

15             If Colonel Siljeg told you that you had to strengthen the

16     Eugen Kvaternik Brigade in Bugojno, would you abide by this order or

17     would you ask Valentin Coric for his authorisation?

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, from other

19     organisational units of the military police which are located in the OZ

20     of North-West Herzegovina, but under my command, I would have appointed a

21     platoon or company, depending on what I had been ordered by the commander

22     of the OZ, and I would send that unit to the Eugen Kvaternik Brigade to

23     carry out its tasks, and they there would be under the command of the

24     commander of the Eugen Kvaternik Brigade.

25             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  So you're saying

Page 50920

 1     that you would have appointed a platoon or a company to strengthen the

 2     Eugen Kvaternik Brigade.  But while taking this decision, would you have,

 3     yourself, asked Valentin Coric for his green light or his authorisation,

 4     or could you decide on your own accord?  Was it part of your own

 5     competences?

 6             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I would inform in

 7     writing Mr. Coric about the deployment of the military police.  But since

 8     the military police battalion has its platoons and companies within the

 9     operative zone, it wasn't necessary for us to be given reinforcements

10     based on an order from Valentin Coric, except if another military police

11     unit was coming in with -- or, rather, from another operative zone.

12     Then, via the Main Staff, Valentin Coric would receive an order to send

13     the military police to another operative zone.

14             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  One last question.

15             You decide to send a company to Bugojno in order to strengthen

16     the Eugen Kvaternik Brigade.  Once this company arrives in Bugojno, will

17     it be under the exclusive and total command and the commander of the

18     Eugen Kvaternik Brigade?

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, it would be under the command

20     of the brigade, which would then issue it its tasks.

21             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.

22             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

23        Q.   Mr. Andabak, look at the next document, P04413.  It's a warning

24     signed by Mr. Govorusic.  Tell me, first, do you know who Mr. Govorusic

25     was and what position he held in August of 1993, when he issued this

Page 50921

 1     warning?

 2        A.   Mr. Ante Govorusic was the deputy commander of the OZ of

 3     North-West Herzegovina.

 4        Q.   Tell me, please, did the you take on board this warning?

 5        A.   Yes, we did receive this warning.

 6        Q.   In this warning, it says that it follows a warning from the

 7     Main Staff, and it says that the brigade military police, under direct

 8     command of the brigade commanders, that it exists in the brigade's

 9     formations and has the status just as other brigade units.  It says that

10     the selection of men is carried out from the military composition of the

11     brigade and that it is the commander's right to replace any military

12     policeman.  And then it goes on to say that the chief of the military

13     police can be asked for professional assistance.  And it goes on to say

14     that the problems in the brigade police are resolved through the system

15     of control and command.

16             Now, Mr. Andabak, you've already told us something about this,

17     but were you aware of the functioning of the brigade military police in

18     this way, and is that how it functioned in the North-West Herzegovina OZ?

19        A.   The brigade military police was under the direct command of the

20     brigade commander, and that was what it was like in the

21     North-West Herzegovina OZ, and the men -- the manpower was also from the

22     brigade.  And as far as the Military Police Administration is concerned,

23     it was duty-bound, logistically, to ensure military police equipment and

24     professional training for brigade military policemen.

25             In item 3 here, it says that the chief of the military police can

Page 50922

 1     only be asked -- can be asked only for professional assistance, which

 2     means that if they needed some rules and regulations governing their work

 3     at the entrance gate, for example, or rules and regulations about the

 4     various check-points manned by three men, well, that's the kind of

 5     professional assistance that was being sought.

 6        Q.   Can you tell us who and in what way asked for professional

 7     assistance?  And do you know of any such cases, in practice, when

 8     professional assistance was requested?  And if so, what happened?

 9        A.   Professional assistance was sought by the brigade commander,

10     either through the OZ commander or through me, as the battalion

11     commander.  It usually went through the commander of the operative zone.

12        Q.   Very well.  Mr. Andabak, let's skip the next document and go

13     to --

14             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, on the basis of this

15     document, once again, because in a few months' time this trial will be

16     finished, so we must really be clear about the documents.  If the

17     commander of the Kresimir IV Brigade says or tells his company of

18     military policemen that they will not control the check-points because

19     there is no point in that, however, You must place yourselves on the

20     front-line because I need you there, that is where you will be much more

21     useful, at that point in time you, as the commander of the battalion, can

22     you object to that or does that -- is that solely part of the remit of

23     the commander of the Kresimir IV Brigade?

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that was within the

25     remit of the Petar Kresimir IV Brigade, and he was in command of the

Page 50923

 1     brigade military police.  In case he issued such an order, he could

 2     request from the commander of the operative zone -- if he needed military

 3     police for the check-points, he could request assistance from the active

 4     battalion of the military police and ask them to control the

 5     check-points.

 6             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Is that the reason why, in

 7     small (a) in this document, which stems from Ante Govorusic, it states

 8     that the military police has the same status as the other units of the

 9     brigade?  Is that why that one gives reason to believe that there is only

10     one chain of command and the person who exercises the supreme authority

11     at the level of the brigade is a brigade commander?  Is that why it says

12     here that these units have the same status as the other units?

13             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that's correct.  The

14     military platoon -- the brigade platoon of the military police was on the

15     strength of brigade, and it had enjoyed the same status as the other

16     platoons of the same brigade.

17             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ms. Tomic.

18             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] And now I'm skipping a

19     document, and let's look at P00900 [as interpreted].

20        Q.   While you're looking for the document, what you have just told us

21     about the North-West Herzegovina OZ and the command and the status of the

22     military police, according to what you know, did it function in the same

23     way in the other operative zones?

24             P00900 [as interpreted].

25        A.   All operative zones in the Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna

Page 50924

 1     acted in the same way.

 2        Q.   Very well.  The following document is P00990.

 3             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  The transcript lists the document as "P00900."

 4     That's what you've said.  Isn't it the document P00990?

 5             I see you are nodding.  Thank you.

 6             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, and I

 7     corrected myself on page 26, line 1, but it was being recorded just as

 8     you were the putting your question about the document.  So, yes, it is

 9     the document, P00990.

10        Q.   This is an order issued by the brigade commander.  The brigade is

11     Stjepan Radic.  Tell me, please, where was the Stjepan Radic Brigade

12     deployed, in which operative zone?

13        A.   The aforementioned brigade was within the Operative Zone of

14     South-East Herzegovina.

15        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Andabak.  We are moving very slowly.  I

16     did ask you before your testimony to make breaks, but your breaks are a

17     bit too long.  Please count to 10 after I've finished and then start

18     answering.  Usually, we have a problem with the breaks being too short,

19     and now they are too long.

20             And now could you please look at the order, and could you please

21     provide your short comment with regard to what has been discussed so far?

22        A.   This order was issued by the brigade commander in 1993.  As far

23     as I can see, the order was created in the North-West Herzegovina

24     Operations Zone IZM or Forward Command Post Pidris.  The brigade

25     commander here acted pursuant to his authorities.

Page 50925

 1        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Andabak.

 2             Can we please look at the following document, which is P01099.

 3     This is a schematic of the brigade organisation, and you will see the

 4     schematic on page 2 of the document.  Could you please tell us -- I have

 5     actually two questions about the schematic.  The first question is this:

 6     Does the schematic reflect the situation as you knew it at the time with

 7     regard to the composition of the brigades in your operations zone?

 8     That's my first question.  And the second question is this:  What's the

 9     Protection Platoon's purpose, and what is the purpose of the MP Platoon?

10     What are their roles?

11        A.   The document reflects the organisation structure of the brigade

12     and its establishment.  The MP Platoon is here to provide security for

13     the brigade command, to control the entry and exit points in the

14     battle-field, to bring back deserters pursuant to the commander's orders,

15     whereas the Protection Platoon acts in combat and moves with the

16     commander and his headquarters.

17        Q.   And now, Mr. Andabak, could you just briefly look at that table

18     which follows, actually the following few pages, and could you please

19     tell us what the table represents?

20        A.   This table, as far as I can see, shows the personnel composition

21     in the brigade, and here I can see the command and the headquarters of

22     the brigade with their personnels.

23        Q.   Mr. Andabak, in the table that we are looking at there are no

24     platoons, battalions, detachments, that we were able to see in the

25     previous schematic.  How come?  Why are they missing?

Page 50926

 1        A.   This is probably just an excerpt showing just the command and the

 2     headquarters and no affiliated units.  This is just an excerpt from the

 3     overall organisation.

 4        Q.   Can you please tell me what affiliated units are?  We have five

 5     battalions here, we have the Signals Platoon, the Reconnaissance Platoon,

 6     the MP Platoon.  What are affiliated units?  Are you saying that they are

 7     not on the strength of the brigade or what?

 8        A.   They were on the strength of the brigade.  They were its

 9     elements.

10        Q.   And now look at P04293.

11             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  If I may just ask a question as to this list of

12     persons.

13             To me, it looks like these persons being the members of the

14     staff, full stop, whereas the platoon is an instrument of the staff.  The

15     platoon is not a member of the staff, but an instrument used by the

16     staff?

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, here you see the commander and

18     his staff, but if you look at the detail, then you could see the

19     elaboration of the personnel, the platoons, how many men, ranks, and so

20     on and so forth.

21             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  It looks a bit strange.  The commander, one

22     person, would have 380 vehicles?

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I would not be able to comment the

24     figures.

25             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Would you agree that this table is not entirely

Page 50927

 1     convincing as a document, at least not self-evident, as you, yourself,

 2     seem to have doubts?

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, when it comes to logistics

 4     and the number of vehicles, yes, it's a bit strange, but the rest is all

 5     okay.

 6             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Thank you.

 7             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I believe that there has

 8     been a mistake in the interpretation of your answer.  To clarify things,

 9     I'll put the question again.

10        Q.   You said if we were to look at the details, this table does not

11     contain personnel, platoons, if I understood you properly.  Did I

12     understand properly what you were saying?

13        A.   Yes, that's correct.  Battalions -- battalions are divided into

14     the command, the detachment platoons, so if all that was listed, you

15     would also see the number of personnel, officers, non-commissioned

16     officers, civilians working in the battalion, and so on and so forth.

17        Q.   Okay.  Let's look at the following document, which is P04293.

18     This document was issued by the South-East Herzegovina Operations Zone in

19     August 1993.  Its title is "Report on the Organisation and Activities of

20     the Headquarters Office of the 2nd HVO Brigade," and it says here the

21     brigade was not in a position to secure the necessary MTS for the work of

22     the office.  And then a few lines further down:

23             "... in order to be able to supply the following units and

24     services in the brigade:"

25             And then the four battalions are listed:  The Operations and

Page 50928

 1     Training Department, Artillery, Brigade Military Police, Protection

 2     Platoon, Logistics Platoon.  Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, what would be

 3     your comment on what we have just read?  According to what you know, did

 4     brigades in your OZ have the same units and services on their strengths?

 5        A.   Yes, every brigade in my OZ had the same organisation and the

 6     same units and elements.

 7             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I should

 8     move to a big, somewhat larger topic, so I would kindly ask you if we

 9     could have a break now five minutes before.

10             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let's have our 20-minute break.

11                           --- Recess taken at 3.37 p.m.

12                           --- On resuming at 4.02 p.m.

13             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session.

14             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

15        Q.   Mr. Andabak, let's look at the following document, P04103.  The

16     document again was signed by Mr. Govorusic, the deputy commander of the

17     operative zone, and it is -- it was issued in August 1993.  The title is

18     "Report on the Situation in Brigades - Report."  Please look at the third

19     page of the document in Croatian, and in English it's on page 6.  The

20     title is "The 6th Battalion of the Military Police."

21             Mr. Andabak, was that the battalion of the military police under

22     your command?

23        A.   Yes, that was the 6th Battalion of the Military Police.

24        Q.   Below the title, it says:

25             "The check on the implementation of the order ..."

Page 50929

 1             And further on you can read that the check refers to the number,

 2     reporting, work.  Do you remember that this check was, indeed, performed,

 3     that it was carried out?

 4        A.   Yes, the check did happen.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  And now let's look at the following document, which

 6     is P04110.

 7             And while we're looking for the document, tell me, please, in the

 8     your zone did you receive reports from companies and platoons that were

 9     on the strength of your battalion?

10        A.   Yes, we received daily operative reports from them.

11        Q.   Did you also receive reports from the brigade platoons of the

12     military police in your zone?

13        A.   When it comes to the brigade platoons of the military police, we

14     did not receive reports from them because they were not duty-bound to

15     report to us, but to the brigade commander.

16        Q.   Now you have the document before you.  We can see that this is a

17     document issued by the brigade military police platoon, sent to the

18     command of the brigade, just like you've told us.  Could you please

19     look -- somewhere in the middle of the document, it says "BVP."  Does

20     this refer to the brigade military police?  Does this stand for the

21     brigade military police?

22        A.   Yes, this is the abbreviation for the brigade military police.

23        Q.   It says here BVP was sent to the place where nine dead bodies of

24     Muslim civilians were found.  The case was referred to the brigade SIS.

25     Do you know something about the case that is mentioned in here?

Page 50930

 1        A.   The brigade military police received a report that in a village

 2     there were several dead bodies to be found.  They went there.  They

 3     secured the site, and they called the SIS of their own brigade as well as

 4     the Crime Prevention Department of the active military police battalion,

 5     which took the case over.  They carried out an on-site inspection, filed

 6     a criminal report.  And as far as I know, the perpetrator of that

 7     particular crime is still serving sentence.

 8        Q.   Tell me, please, do you know where that was?  What is the village

 9     in question?  You did mention that it was in the village, but what

10     village was that?

11        A.   The name of the village was Mokronoge in Tomislavgrad

12     municipality, and the case file name is Bakovici.

13        Q.   Then we can skip a document and we can move on to --

14             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second, Colonel.

15             I'm interested in the fact that nine Muslim civilians were found

16     dead, and you're saying -- or, rather, in this document it says that the

17     case was referred to the SIS.  So here is what I would like to know:  Why

18     did the military police not carry out this investigation?  Why was this

19     case referred to the SIS?

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In that case, it was the brigade

21     military police which did not have the Crime Prevention Department of the

22     military police, it only existed within the 6th Battalion of the active

23     military police, and that is why they could not carry out an on-site

24     inspection.

25             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.

Page 50931

 1             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

 2        Q.   Mr. Andabak, could you please look at P00970.

 3             And while this is being brought up, I'm going to ask you this:

 4     Who did you sent your reports to and what kind of reports those were?

 5        A.   I, as the commander of the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police,

 6     was duty-bound to send daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, as well as

 7     interim reports to the Operative Duty Service of the Military Police

 8     Administration and the command of the OZ.

 9        Q.   Mr. Andabak, when a report of yours arrived at the

10     Duty Operations Service of the MP Administration, what happened to it

11     next?

12        A.   The officer on duty who received my report, and the reports of

13     the other military commanders from the other OZs, collects them all

14     together, looks at all the items, send on what is interesting for the

15     Military Police Administration and its subordinate units, whether they be

16     the traffic police unit or the general police, crime police, assistant

17     chief of SIS in the Military Police Administration or whatever, and so

18     when they collect all these reports, they send them to the chief of the

19     Military Police Administration.  And as far as I know, when he received a

20     report of that kind, he would send it on to the head of the Office of the

21     Main Staff, SIS assistant, Ministry of Defence, and various addressees.

22        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, your report, did it contain

23     information about what the brigade military police did in your zone?

24        A.   Since they do not submit reports to me, my reports didn't contain

25     those elements either.

Page 50932

 1        Q.   Tell me, do you know what it was like in other zones with the

 2     reports of other military police?

 3        A.   Well, all I can tell you is what I heard; that is to say, that

 4     there were cases in the Operative Zone of South-East Herzegovina whereby

 5     military policemen step outside the frameworks of the brigade, and then

 6     the commander of the battalion would write such a report to the military

 7     police and the duty officer.

 8        Q.   Mr. Andabak, would you now look at the document before you now?

 9     P00970 is the document - we called it up earlier on - and tell the Court

10     what is this document?

11        A.   This is a quarterly report on the work of the 2nd Battalion of

12     the Military Police for North-West Herzegovina OZ.

13        Q.   Is that one of your reports?

14        A.   Yes, it is, it's my report.

15        Q.   Who did you send it to?  Who were you reporting to?

16        A.   As you can see from the heading and title, one copy went to the

17     military police, to the duty officer, and the second to the command of

18     the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina.

19        Q.   Mr. Andabak, in the Croatian version of the document we see

20     something written in hand -- by hand, something handwritten.  Do you

21     recognise the writing, whose handwriting that is?

22        A.   Yes, it's the handwriting of the commander of the operative zone,

23     Mr. Zeljko Siljeg.

24        Q.   Mr. Andabak, who -- well, let me you this first:  As a member of

25     the military police, as a commander of a battalion, did you take part in

Page 50933

 1     any combat operations, have any combat assignments?

 2        A.   Yes, I did take part in combat operations.

 3        Q.   And, tell me, who did you submit your combat reports to?

 4        A.   I submitted my combat reports to the commander of the operative

 5     zone at the briefings, I reported to him at the briefings.

 6        Q.   And when were these briefings held, who attended, and what was

 7     discussed at these briefings?

 8        A.   Mostly when there was no combat going on, every day at a certain

 9     time there would be a briefing.  During combat, we would mostly meet at

10     the forward command post of the OZ, where the commander of the OZ would

11     attend, and his assistants, and the commanders of the units located in

12     the area.

13        Q.   And what would you discuss at these briefings?

14        A.   Well, mostly we would discuss how many men we had, the positions

15     we had reached, whether there had been any fighting, whether we suffered

16     any losses.  We would discuss matters of logistics and any problems that

17     might have arisen, and we would be given assignments for the forthcoming

18     period, that is to say, for the following day.

19        Q.   All right, Mr. Andabak, now let's move on.  We're going to skip

20     two documents and move on to document P -- 5D04385.  It is an order from

21     Colonel Siljeg, dated June 1993, and linked to reporting of the commands,

22     the regular combat reports.  Now, did you receive this order?

23        A.   Yes, we did receive this order and acted upon it.  And as it says

24     in the order, we executed it.

25        Q.   Right.  We'll skip the next document and move on to document

Page 50934

 1     5D02102.

 2             And while we're waiting for that document to be displayed, let me

 3     ask you this, Mr. Andabak:  In your OZ, who issued you orders for combat

 4     in your OZ?

 5        A.   The commander of the operative zone, himself, issued orders to

 6     me, personally.

 7        Q.   Tell me, Mr. Andabak, were you ever involved in some combat

 8     outside the North-West Herzegovina OZ?

 9        A.   Yes, we were involved in the South-East Herzegovina OZ.

10        Q.   Can you explain to us what the principle was, how you went from

11     your zone to the South-East Herzegovina OZ?  Who gave you the orders to

12     go?  How does this function, generally speaking?  What's the procedure?

13        A.   Well, the command of the South-East Herzegovina Operative Zone

14     asking for assistance in manpower, that is to say, the military police,

15     sends a request to the Main Staff of the HVO, and the Main Staff issues

16     this same order to the Military Police Administration.  And then the head

17     of the Military Police Administration issues the order for this unit to

18     move from one zone to another.

19        Q.   And when you arrive in that area of responsibility, once you

20     arrive, who issues you orders in that new area of responsibility?

21        A.   The commander does, the commander of the operative zone in which

22     we are located, or the person that he authorises to do that.

23        Q.   Now look at the document that you have before you, 5D02102.  It's

24     an order from Colonel Zeljko Siljeg, dated the 29th of June, 1993, and it

25     says:

Page 50935

 1             "The military police forces in Bugojno and Gornji Vakuf are

 2     placed under the command of the Eugen Kvaternik and Ante Starcevic

 3     Brigades in their area of responsibility.

 4             "In addition to their regular tasks, the military police forces

 5     are also combat units and should be used -- and can be used as such."

 6             Tell me, Mr. Andabak, did you receive this order?

 7        A.   As commander of the battalion, yes, I did receive this order.

 8        Q.   And was the order carried out?

 9        A.   Yes, the order was carried out, and these two military police

10     companies were placed under the command specified.

11        Q.   Now, in item 3, it says:

12             "This order is valid until it is changed by the Administration of

13     the Military Police or the Command of the OZ."

14             Now, was this order, in fact, changed, amended at all?

15        A.   Yes, the order was changed pursuant to an order from the

16     commander of the OZ.

17        Q.   Once again, we're going to skip the next document and move on to

18     document P05478.  This is an order from Mr. Coric, dated the 29th of

19     September, 1993, and this is what the order says:

20             "Pursuant to an order from the main command of the HVO --

21     Main Staff of the HVO, I hereby issue the following order:

22             "Urgently send the 3rd Company of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion

23     of the Military Police to the Gornji Vakuf Sector.  The company commander

24     is to report to the forward command post at Prozor, to the commander of

25     the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina."

Page 50936

 1             Mr. Andabak, tell us, please, why does Mr. Coric -- why is

 2     Mr. Coric writing this order, when you've told us that the

 3     2nd Light Assault Battalion was within the composition of the OZ of

 4     North-West Herzegovina?  Can you explain that to me, please?

 5        A.   The 3rd Company of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion of the

 6     Military Police was engaged in carrying out its orders and assignments on

 7     the Mostar front; that is to say, in the OZ of South-East Herzegovina.

 8     As I explained a moment ago, the commander of the North-West Herzegovina

 9     Operative Zone asked for the withdrawal of this unit from Mostar, and he

10     asked that it be activated in the operative zone under his command.  And

11     in keeping with that, the Main Staff then issued an order to the military

12     police to relocate, and the chief of the military police, Valentin Coric,

13     issued this order to the 3rd Company's 2nd Light Assault Battalion,

14     ordering it to go and carry out assignments in the North-West Herzegovina

15     Operative Zone.

16        Q.   Mr. Andabak --

17             MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] I apologise to my colleague.  But

18     with respect to the answer we've just heard a moment ago, and that was on

19     page 36, lines 11 to 16, there was obviously a mistake in the transcript,

20     because the same matter is being talked about, but it was stated

21     differently.  So perhaps you should return to your question and ask the

22     witness again.  There's something missing from the transcript, but I

23     didn't want to intervene.  But in view of the answer the witness has just

24     given us, now, I don't want to speak because I may be accused of leading

25     the witness.  Anyway, it was the witness's answer on page 36, beginning

Page 50937

 1     with line 11.

 2             Perhaps the best thing would be if you were to ask your question

 3     again, Counsel, because what the witness said a moment ago is different

 4     to what he said then.  Thank you.

 5             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

 6        Q.   Witness, just briefly, to clarify matters, a very short question:

 7     Who requests reinforcement for the military police force?

 8        A.   The command of the operative zone from the Main Staff, if the

 9     military police is from another operative zone.  So the Main Staff issues

10     an order to the Military Police Administration, and the Military Police

11     Administration acts upon it.

12        Q.   All right, fine.  We can skip the next document, and let's go to

13     P03778.  This is a document dated the 28th of July, 1993, in which

14     Mr. Coric says that pursuant to an order from the head of the Defence

15     Department, he orders as follows; and enumerates the light assault

16     battalions, and says that in operational terms for military operations,

17     they are to be re-subordinated to the commander of the HVO or the

18     commander of the corresponding zone specifically authorised by the

19     commander.  Can you explain what that means?  What is this about, and is

20     there any difference here if we were to compare it to what we were

21     discussing earlier on?

22        A.   Yes, there is a difference, because by this order all the units

23     are being re-subordinated to the commander of the HVO, who can deploy the

24     units mentioned in any area of responsibility.

25        Q.   All right, fine, Mr. Andabak.  Tell me now, in the penultimate

Page 50938

 1     paragraph of that same order, it says that the assistant chiefs are

 2     duty-bound -- in addition to deploying these military police units in

 3     battle and their re-subordination to the commander of the HVO, they are

 4     also duty-bound to secure permanent links, functional links, between all

 5     the military police units and their links towards the Military Police

 6     Administration.  Now, you were assistant chief for a time, so tell us

 7     what that means.  What does that mean?

 8        A.   That means that the military police, not engaged in battle and

 9     which has free days or is on furlough, can continue their military

10     police -- regular military police work, performing military police

11     assignments.  So everything with respect to reporting, sending reports,

12     and so on, that that should be continued.

13             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Excuse me.  If I may just ask a question on

14     document P03778.

15             The police light assault brigades are re-subordinated to the

16     commander of the HVO.  Could you give us the name of that commander?

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, the commander of the HVO at

18     that point in time was Mr. Slobodan Praljak.

19             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Thank you.  The other possibility would have

20     been Mr. Boban, but your answer clarifies.  Thank you.

21             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, it didn't escape me

22     that this document is dated 28th of July.  We know that General Praljak

23     took up his post a few days before that.  This document shows that

24     General Praljak would like to have under his direct authority the various

25     battalions, because according to this document, those battalions will be

Page 50939

 1     re-subordinated to the commander of the HVO.  So, in a way, it's the

 2     Chief of Staff; hence the question from my colleague, because there could

 3     be some confusion and we could have thought it could have been

 4     Mr. Mate Boban.  But you gave us a very clear answer in this regard.  So

 5     according to you, what meaning should we pay to this document, because it

 6     is some sort of a small revolution, isn't it?

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I wouldn't put it that way,

 8     and I don't know what I can actually tell you about that.  Anyway, all

 9     these units mentioned here, because of the deployment of the units on the

10     ground and so that they could go into action as quickly as possible, I

11     would say it was to bypass the red tape, because having one commander

12     writing to another commander and so on, all that red tape takes a lot of

13     time, so to cut that short.

14             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.

15             Please proceed.

16             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   During this period after this order, who was in operative command

18     of the assistant commanders in the field?

19        A.   It was still the commander of the OZ.

20        Q.   Very well.  Let's skip one document, and let's go to P040251 --

21     P04251.  This is an order issued by Mr. Petkovic in August 1993.  It was

22     sent to all operative zones.  It deals with the freedom of movement of UN

23     forces.  Did you receive this order?

24        A.   I received the order via the command of the operative zone.

25        Q.   Did you act upon it?

Page 50940

 1        A.   Of course.  We were duty-bound to carry that order out.

 2        Q.   Let's move on to the following document, after having skipped

 3     one.  This is P04063.  This is another order issued by Mr. Petkovic in

 4     August 1993, dealing with bringing back deserters.  Did you receive this

 5     order?

 6        A.   We received this order also through the command of the OZ.

 7        Q.   Did you carry it out?

 8        A.   The 6th Active Service Battalion brought back soldiers in its

 9     operative zone, and it sent daily reports to the commander of the OZ

10     about the number of soldiers who were brought who either didn't respond

11     to the mobilisation calls or were absent without leave.

12        Q.   Mr. Andabak, we are going to skip a few documents.

13     Unfortunately, I have to skip documents because I don't have enough time.

14     And let's go to 5D03104.  Please tell me when you find it.

15        A.   Yes, I have.

16        Q.   This is a permit signed by you in October 1993.  Is this a permit

17     that you issued?  Could you please tell me something about the document?

18     What do you know about it?

19        A.   This is a permit for passage through all military police

20     check-points in the zone.  It is based on the order of the Main Staff,

21     after a verbal consent of the OZ commander.

22        Q.   Were you authorised to issue such permits on your own,

23     independently?

24        A.   No, I wasn't.  I couldn't do it on my own.  I couldn't do any --

25     I couldn't issue any permits independently.

Page 50941

 1        Q.   Let's go to the following document, which is P01238.  This is an

 2     order issued in January 1993, co-signed by the Chief of the Main Staff of

 3     the HVO, Mr. Milivoj Petkovic, and on behalf of the BH Army Staff,

 4     Commander Arif Pasalic.  Let's look at bullet point 4 in this order,

 5     which refers to the blockade and lifting the blockade off the roads.  Did

 6     you receive this order?

 7        A.   I received this order in the Prozor IKM, where the command of the

 8     OZ was located.  The military police acted upon the agreement and the

 9     order issued by the two chiefs, i.e., the Chief of the Main Staff and

10     Mr. Pasalic on behalf of the BH Army Staff, and we reported back to the

11     commander of the OZ about what we did.

12        Q.   Let's now skip a couple of documents.

13             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You might be able to answer

14     this question.

15             Here we see, under 4 of this document, the question of

16     humanitarian convoys.  Did you personally control the humanitarian

17     convoy?  Did you do that personally?

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As the assistant commander of the

19     MP Administration, I participated in the establishment of joint

20     check-points in the zone.  And when it comes to the control of the

21     humanitarian transport, it was done by the military police which was on

22     the spot, and the military police did their job without any problems.

23     And as far as acting as escorts and things like that, nobody ever asked

24     for such services from us when it came to humanitarian aid.

25             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What I wanted to know is this:

Page 50942

 1     whether you, yourself, personally controlled a humanitarian convoy one

 2     day.  I'm not talking about the documents.  I'm talking about you

 3     physically controlling a humanitarian convoy.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no, I didn't.

 5             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.

 6             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

 7        Q.   Mr. Andabak, we are going to skip three documents, and let's go

 8     to P02836.  The document was issued by the 3rd Battalion of the

 9     Herceg Stjepan Brigade from Jablanica.  Jablanica was part of the

10     North-West Herzegovina OZ, wasn't it?

11        A.   Yes, it was under the Herceg Stjepan Brigade from Konjic.

12        Q.   This was signed by the battalion commander, who issues an order

13     to the military police in Jablanica to set up a check-point.  Under 3, he

14     provides for patrols, and under 4 he says:

15             "This order enters into force immediately.  Commander Azinovic is

16     responsible ..."

17             Did you know about this order?  Was it ever implemented, as far

18     as you know?

19        A.   I was aware of this order.  It was implemented when an order

20     came -- or when a request came from the Herceg Stjepan Brigade from

21     Konjic arrived in the operative zone.  And when such request was

22     received, this order was carried out, and the OZ commander and the

23     brigade commander were informed thereof.

24        Q.   By way of introduction into the following topic, Mr. Andabak,

25     tell me, what is the meaning of the area of responsibility of the

Page 50943

 1     commander, and how is it determined?

 2        A.   The area of responsibility of a commander is the front-line; for

 3     example, from one elevation to another, from one trig point to another,

 4     and it is determined by width and in depth.  That zone of responsibility

 5     can be 300 to 500 metres in depth, not more.  But if there is a village

 6     behind the front-line, whether abandoned or a village with mixed

 7     Bosniak Croatian or Serb Muslim population, the commander will put his

 8     troops behind the village in order to have the control of the entire

 9     village.  And he made this decision with his assistant for security.  He

10     had his brigade police which secured his command wherever he put it.  And

11     that same brigade military police controlled the entry and exits -- entry

12     to and exits from the zone of responsibility and performed policing

13     duties within the zone of responsibility should some events of that

14     nature occur.  And the zone of responsibility in depth could be anything

15     up to 10 or even 15 kilometres.  But I also know, for example, that the

16     entire city of Mostar was the zone of responsibility for a commander

17     under the command of the commander of the operative zone, and it was

18     divided into various sectors.

19        Q.   Very well, Mr. Andabak.  And now tell me, what are the

20     responsibilities of a commander in his area of responsibility?

21        A.   First of all, he is to look after the security of that zone.  He

22     has to make sure that no crimes are committed, that there's no breaches

23     of discipline, thefts.  He has to protect the population that resides in

24     his area of responsibility.

25        Q.   Very well.  Mr. Andabak, what are the duties of a commander if a

Page 50944

 1     crime takes place in his area of responsibility?

 2        A.   If he received the information about a crime that happened,

 3     together with his brigade police, he will go to the crime scene.  He will

 4     secure the crime scene.  He will preserve any clues and traces, if such

 5     clues and traces existed.  If they found the perpetrator on the spot, he

 6     will keep them, and he can keep them -- keep him on the premises until

 7     the arrival of the military police.  And if a crime was committed, he

 8     can, himself, file a criminal report, or it can be done by his assistant

 9     for security, but he can file the criminal report himself.

10        Q.   If I understand you properly, he can do it on his own, or he can

11     inform the military police and ask them to do that.  If I understand you

12     properly, there are two possibilities in that case.

13        A.   Yes.  If a crime requires the presence of the Criminal Department

14     of the Military Police, they will come to the scene and do everything

15     necessary to file a criminal report.

16        Q.   Very well.  Mr. Andabak, let's look at the following document

17     after skipping one, P04819.  This is an order issued by the commander of

18     the Main Staff, Mr. Slobodan Praljak, P04819.  The order was issued in

19     September 1993 and refers to the regulation of the area of responsibility

20     and combat activities, and he says here:

21             "I order:"

22             Under 1:

23             "The area of responsibility ..."

24             And he determines the left border of the area of responsibility,

25     and he says:

Page 50945

 1             " ... in front of the current defence line in depth towards the

 2     municipalities of Livno which are not under the occupation of the enemy

 3     forces."

 4             Tell me, how is the area of responsibility determined in Livno

 5     municipality?

 6        A.   Actually, the Serbian artillery could open mortar fire on Livno,

 7     so Livno, in one part, was a part of the area of responsibility.

 8        Q.   What you know from the field about the area of responsibility,

 9     does this reflect the bullet point 1 in this document?

10        A.   I wouldn't know, because I don't know what is the previous order

11     that General Praljak refers to.  But this order obviously removes some

12     ambiguities that the commanders might have had at that time, and the

13     order was issued.

14        Q.   And now let's skip -- let's skip two documents, and let's look at

15     the third document, which is P03135.  This is an order issued by the

16     Knez Domagoj Brigade commander, dated 3rd of July, 1993, and he says in

17     this order, based on the newly-arisen situation in the zone of

18     responsibility of the 1st Brigade, and due to increased crime and

19     unwanted behaviour by some commanders and soldiers, and pursuant to the

20     extension of the area of responsibility, "I hereby," under number 1:

21             "Prevent any theft or any other form of appropriation of personal

22     and other property of people, arrest the perpetrators and institute

23     criminal proceedings again them through this command."

24             Under number 3 it says:

25             "Prevent any violent behaviour, arrest perpetrators and start

Page 50946

 1     proceedings against them though this command."

 2             Under 4, it says:

 3             "Offer protection to the civilian population."

 4             And then under 11, it says:

 5             "The commanders of units, in person, shall be responsible for the

 6     implementation of this order."

 7             Mr. Andabak, I know that this does not originate from your area

 8     of responsibility, but I would welcome your brief comment and tell me

 9     what the situation was in your area of responsibility.  Did the brigade

10     commanders act in the same way as the commander whose order we have just

11     looked at?

12        A.   Every order -- or, rather, not all orders could be the same.

13     This brigade commander looked at the situation.  He received information

14     from the field, and he ordered for the shortcomings of which he was

15     informed or noticed himself to be removed.  And every commander could

16     either add or subtract or alter things as needed in order to warn other

17     soldiers not to commit crimes, thefts, to refrain from disorderly

18     behaviour, and so on and so forth.

19        Q.   Let's look at the following document, which is P00 --

20             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Document 003135 concerns the

21     area of responsibility of Colonel Obradovic.  You are, therefore, not

22     concerned by this document.  Nonetheless, I would like to have your view

23     on this item 7.

24             If you look at item 7, this has to do with the Muslim population,

25     where it is being asked that they be re-grouped in that area and secured

Page 50947

 1     upon your orders.  How do you interpret this?

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, most probably in that

 3     zone houses were scattered.  I don't know how this is going to be

 4     interpreted, the word "scattered."  And in order to prevent crimes

 5     against the population in the area, I suppose that they re-grouped them

 6     in an area where the houses were closer to each other, and that was all

 7     done in order to secure those people and for him to be sure that those

 8     people were secure.  For example, you have one house on one hilltop,

 9     another on another hilltop, and the third one between the two.  I don't

10     know if you understood my answer.

11             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, I'm sure you realise

12     that this was the 3rd of July; i.e., a few days after the 30th of June.

13     In your area of responsibility, your own area of responsibility, was this

14     kind of order given, or were you in charge of the Muslims and made sure

15     that they were protected properly?

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, Your Honour, I can't tell you

17     that.  I don't know whether the situation was the same in other zones of

18     responsibility.  I know that I did not have my own zone of

19     responsibility.  We were always subordinated to either the brigade or the

20     unit that was in that area of responsibility, and so I wouldn't know,

21     really.

22             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let me fine-tune my question.

23     Were you aware of the fact, at your level, that military policemen, upon

24     the orders of brigade commanders of the area of responsibility in the

25     north-west - I'm being very specific - were assigned after the 30th of

Page 50948

 1     June, 1993, to re-group Muslim civilians or to disarm HVO soldiers who

 2     were Muslim?

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, Your Honour, I'm not aware of

 4     that.  I don't know.  All I can say is -- and tell you what happened in

 5     Livno or in Tomislavgrad, when, under the brigade command, the Bosniak

 6     population were disarmed; members of the BH Army within the composition

 7     of the HVO, those people.

 8             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you disarmed them in Livno.

 9     After they had been disarmed, did you regroup them, isolate them, detain

10     them, monitored, guarded, thrown in jail?

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, following an order from the

12     brigade commander, we isolated those people and put them in two school

13     buildings - and I think there was a third building used too - until the

14     conflict passed.  They were under protection and, on the second or third

15     day, were allowed to go home.  They were released.

16             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In other words, you are saying

17     that they were guarded for two to three days.  Then they were released,

18     and they left freely.  Where did they go when they could leave freely?

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, they went back home to

20     their families, their houses and their families.

21             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

22        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, to follow on from that, you said

23     you received an order to disarm, if I understood you correctly -- the

24     Muslims, to disarm the Muslims who were HVO members; is that right?  Is

25     that what you said?

Page 50949

 1        A.   Yes, that's what I said.

 2        Q.   Now, in your military police battalion, did you have any Muslim

 3     members?

 4        A.   Yes, I did, I had some Muslims in my battalion, and the commander

 5     of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion, Jasarevic, was a Muslim himself.

 6        Q.   Did you disarm them?

 7        A.   No, we didn't disarm Muslim members of the military police.  We

 8     checked some of them out and saw that they were not a threat to security

 9     anyway, so those people remained in our ranks until the end of the war.

10        Q.   Now would you look at the next document, which is P00778.

11             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment.

12             Colonel, you've just said something which I believe is important.

13     You mentioned it very quickly.  I discover, because this is something I

14     did not know, that in the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police there were

15     Muslims, you examined the situation, you did not disarm them, and you

16     said very briefly that they remained until the end of the war in your

17     units.  So how many were they, these Muslims that remained in the

18     military police of the HVO, in percentage terms?

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] For my battalion, Your Honour,

20     I can tell you that they were between 25 and 30 per cent.

21             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ranging between 25 and

22     30 per cent.  I don't know what the figure is, because [as interpreted]

23     I've seen a document to that effect.  How many men did you have in the

24     2nd Battalion?

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In the 2nd Battalion, Your Honour,

Page 50950

 1     depending on the period of time, but between 540 to 580 men.

 2             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Therefore, ranging from 25 to

 3     30 per cent, that would mean that there were at least 100 Muslims in the

 4     military police of the 2nd Battalion?

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, yes, thereabouts, if you take

 6     all the companies, including the commands.

 7             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.

 8             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

 9        Q.   Mr. Andabak, look at P00778, the next document now, please.

10     We've skipped a few.  This is a document from the brigade commander, the

11     Ante Starcevic Brigade from Vakuf, dated November 1992, in which he says

12     that on the 17th of November, 1992, a member of "our unit" committed a

13     gruesome murder and killed citizen Salih Grizic.  And lower down, it says

14     that:

15             "The criminal Ratko Rajic, in the spirit of the provisions of the

16     Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna, we escorted him to the Military

17     Prosecutor's Office in Mostar."

18             Now, do you know about this event, Mr. Andabak?

19        A.   Yes, I do, I know about this event, and the brigade commander

20     acted very properly, as he should have done.  This is a very important

21     document, and Mr. Tokic is writing to the Municipal Staff of the

22     Territorial Defence of Gornji Vakuf, apologising for the incident, and

23     that he would like good neighbourly relations to be restored in

24     Gornji Vakuf.

25        Q.   Now look at the next document, P01359, dated the 30th of January,

Page 50951

 1     1993, which Mr. Siljeg is sending to all the brigades, and writes it on

 2     the basis of an order from the Chief of the Main Staff.  He says here, in

 3     item 1, that the soldiers, non-commissioned officers, and officers must

 4     do their best to prevent all acts not in keeping with International War

 5     Law.  And then in item 13, it says that the SIS and the military police

 6     will arrest any pilferers, keep them in detention, record all the items

 7     looted and stolen; and, in item 16, says that these commanders should

 8     their own orders down the line.

 9             Tell me, did you receive this order?

10        A.   Yes, we received this order from the command of the operative

11     zone in which we were active, and our task was to establish check-points

12     on the territory, and anybody engaging in criminal activities, smuggling

13     and anything else, should be detained if they threaten security in

14     Gornji Vakuf.

15        Q.   Did you act upon it, did you do that?

16        A.   Yes.  A member of the military police in the OZ was informed, all

17     the people were informed, and we informed the command of the OZ about the

18     measures we had taken.

19        Q.   Look at the next document now, please.  P02832 is the number.  It

20     is the minutes from an on-site investigation compiled by the

21     Ante Starcevic Brigade's military police.  It is an on-site investigation

22     conducted in the village of Bistrica after Ramiz Basevic was killed.

23     Now, do you know about this occurrence?  Did you hear about this

24     happening?

25        A.   Yes, I did hear about this, and the military police -- the

Page 50952

 1     brigade military police acted according to orders received from the

 2     brigade commander; that is to say, that every incident in the area of

 3     responsibility, and this was one such instance, that this military

 4     policeman, Jakovljevic, compiled the minutes, and the matter was

 5     processed further and the investigations into the perpetrator conducted.

 6        Q.   Tell me, Mr. Andabak, you, as a military policeman, did you

 7     undergo any training at all teaching you about International Humanitarian

 8     Law, International War Law, and things like that?

 9        A.   I graduated from Police School, and during my training and

10     education there, one of the subjects taught was International

11     Humanitarian Law.  I know that the personnel from the 2nd Military Police

12     Battalion were also educated in that subject when they underwent training

13     and education at the Training Centre in Neum.  And I, myself, organised

14     education courses on that subject in the battalion command and in

15     individual companies, organised with the help of the International Red

16     Cross, where we received booklets about the conduct of soldiers in

17     combat.

18        Q.   Mr. Andabak, I'm going to skip over a few documents, and I'm

19     going to try and bring my examination to a close.

20             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] While listening to you, I was

21     looking at the document P2832.  We see that a crime was committed at 2330

22     hours on the 17th of June, 1993.  According to the details, it seems that

23     a vehicle, a Golf Audi, was seen close to his house with two men on

24     board.  We know that when war is raging, and there is always an increase

25     in criminal activity.  So I was wondering whether, within the military

Page 50953

 1     police, you had night patrols that had been ordered in order to check on

 2     everyone that would be moving around, and was there not a curfew that

 3     would have been ordered?  Because those individuals that were moving

 4     around or that were on board this vehicle, and they seem to be the

 5     perpetrator of this crime, they were on this road, which means that there

 6     was no checks on the roads at night?

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this was the

 8     Gornji Vakuf area, so there wasn't a curfew in force there.  And since

 9     this was in the area of responsibility, then police check-points were set

10     up.  The village of Bistrica is along the main road, so you could just

11     cross the road and you would be in another village, Trnovaca.  Now, I

12     don't know whether the military police had a check-point at the entrance

13     and exit to the village, but judging by this, they didn't.  And we didn't

14     enter into the area of responsibility.  That's up to the unit commander,

15     who could form night patrols.  Now, whether he did do that, I really

16     can't say.  I don't know.

17             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.

18             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

19        Q.   Mr. Andabak, we're going to skip a few documents, and if we have

20     time, we'll come back to them.  But let's deal with document 5D02077.

21             And while you're looking for that document, which is six

22     documents on, tell me, Mr. Andabak, whether you know what the position

23     was of the Military Police Administration towards members of the military

24     police who acted in an undisciplined way and who perhaps committed

25     crimes.  Do you know about that, what their position was on crime?

Page 50954

 1        A.   Yes, I do know about that, and it was the position of the

 2     military police, from the top man, Mr. Coric, was that any such

 3     perpetrators should be persecuted and a criminal report filed, and for

 4     them to be dismissed from the unit.  And those who upset law and order,

 5     that disciplinary measures be taken against them and, if need be, to

 6     eliminate them from our units.  So at all briefings and all my contacts

 7     with the Military Police Administration, also told us that anybody who

 8     besmirched the name of the military police on battlegrounds throughout

 9     Bosnia and Herzegovina, that they should be thrown out of the units.

10        Q.   Tell me, Mr. Andabak, does the name Ilija Franjic ring a bell?

11     Do you know the man?  Is it familiar?

12        A.   Yes, I do know Ilija Franjic.  I met him in 1992, when he was the

13     commander of the Rama Brigade.

14        Q.   Have you found the document I mentioned?  If so, look at it.

15     It's dated the 6th of December, 1992.  The document is signed by

16     Ilija Franjic, as the commander of the Rama Brigade.  Now, to the best of

17     your knowledge, was he, indeed, the commander of that brigade at that

18     period?

19        A.   From this document, we can see that he was commander of the

20     Rama Brigade and that he wanted to leave the brigade.

21        Q.   Tell me, Mr. Andabak, Mr. Ilija Franjic, what post did he occupy

22     in 1993?

23        A.   Well, I think it was in February 1993 that the municipal

24     authorities recommended him as a commander of a police company, the

25     military police company in Rama.

Page 50955

 1        Q.   Now, when he was in the Rama Brigade, was he part of your

 2     battalion, which means that you were his senior officer?

 3        A.   Yes, the military police company from Prozor did come within the

 4     composition of the 2nd Military Police Battalion.  And as I was the

 5     commander of the Military Police Battalion, then, yes, that would be

 6     right.

 7        Q.   Did Mr. Franjic report to you?

 8        A.   Mr. Franjic was obliged to report -- that his company should, on

 9     a daily basis, send reports to the officer on duty in the battalion, and

10     he carried out all his tasks during the time that he was company

11     commander.

12        Q.   Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, in his reports, did he ever warn

13     you and say that the military police was engaged in some criminal acts

14     and crime in the Prozor area, generally?

15        A.   No, he never wrote anything like that, nor did he warn me or

16     provide me with any other information whereby military policemen engaged

17     in unlawful activities.

18        Q.   Now look at 5D02139, please.

19             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, I would thank your

20     counsel to have asked the question, but if she hadn't asked this

21     question, I would have asked it myself.  Over the last few months or

22     perhaps years, we have received documents that are rather alarming

23     regarding the behaviour of military policemen based in Prozor.  There

24     were reports from the SIS, amongst others, and it was saying that there

25     was officers from the military police were committing various crimes,

Page 50956

 1     from theft, but other types of crimes as well, and we had the feeling

 2     that all this was deriving from the fact that no one was able to stop

 3     them and to punish them, and in a way it was, more or less, chaos.  So

 4     your counsel has asked this question, and you said you were not aware.

 5     Under oath, you are hereby saying that you never heard of this sort of

 6     behaviour happening?

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we knew that crimes

 8     were committed, but we didn't know that they were committed by military

 9     police.  The SIS could write whatever they wanted to, but they never

10     accused us.  I never received a document warning me that they were

11     committing crime that would have required me to act.  I did act finally

12     when I learned at one of the brief that is Mr. Franjic had caused

13     problems about some passes, and then, as the commander of the military

14     police, I informed the MP Administration about that, as soon as I

15     received the information, and then I issued an order to him to write a

16     written report about his actions and behaviour.  He did, but he never

17     reported back to me, but to the Administration of the Military Police,

18     when he left the military police.  As soon as I learned, I asked him to

19     write a report about his behaviour, but immediately when I did that, he

20     resigned from the military police.

21             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

22        Q.   Mr. Andabak, do you have the document before you?

23             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Excuse me.  I may be a bit retarded this

24     afternoon, but I am not quite clear.

25             Mr. Andabak, what is it that Mr. Franjic cries out, I am not -- I

Page 50957

 1     am no longer able to carry out this duty?  What does he mean?

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I don't know.  If you

 3     are talking about the order that I have before me now, or, rather, this

 4     document before me, either he was in a mental state or he was not a

 5     stable commander.  I really can't tell you, I'm not in a position to tell

 6     you.  Something was wrong with him, personally.

 7             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Well, we'll hear what the relevance of this

 8     document is to be, then.  But I find it a bit difficult to give it some

 9     meaning if that is the case.  Would you agree that this is not a very

10     clear document, that it's not easy to draw any conclusions from it?

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, after he said that he

12     was no longer capable, that was that.

13             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Thank you.

14             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, let's make

15     one thing clear.  My only objective was to establish that at that moment

16     the gentleman was the brigade commander, and that's the only reason why I

17     showed the document, and that's what I asked the witness.  I just wanted

18     to demonstrate who he was at the time.

19        Q.   Do you have 5D02139 in front of you?

20        A.   Yes, I have the document.

21        Q.   This is a report issued by Mr. Ilija Franjic, as the commander of

22     the Military Police Company.  It was sent to the HVO in Rama

23     municipality.  Did you know that Mr. Franjic reported to the Rama

24     municipality HVO, to the municipal authorities there?

25        A.   I see this report now and didn't know that he reported about the

Page 50958

 1     work of the military police in Rama.  There was no need for him to report

 2     to the municipality of Rama, being a member of the military police.

 3        Q.   Let me take you back to something that you said previously in

 4     answer to the Presiding Judge's question.  You said, As soon as I learned

 5     that Ilija Franjic did dishonourable things.  When was it that you first

 6     learned about that?

 7        A.   I learned about his dishonourable act at a briefing in the OZ

 8     sometime in autumn 1993.  I learned that he was being bossy, that he was

 9     bossing people.

10        Q.   Okay, you said that.  I'd like to know what you did when you

11     learnt about that.  Let's take things step by step.  What was your first

12     reaction?

13        A.   After the briefing, I called the MP Administration.  I don't know

14     whether I told them -- I told the chief of the MP Administration or his

15     deputy, and then I went to Franjic's office and ordered him to write a

16     short report about the relevant events and his behaviour about which I'd

17     heard earlier that evening at the briefing.

18        Q.   Could you please look at 5D02049.  This is a report by Franjic,

19     sent to the Military Police Administration, a report about his work

20     before the 21st of September.

21             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Excuse me.  I'm still with the previous

22     document.

23             Could I be told why -- or what indicates that this document,

24     which has "Military Police - Rama" as a sender, and then is illegibly, it

25     appears, signed by the VP unit commander?  Are we sure this is still

Page 50959

 1     Mr. Franjic, the person who half a year earlier had resigned with

 2     immediate effect, Mr. Andabak?

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, we didn't know why

 4     he resigned from the brigade.  But I repeat, he was appointed as the

 5     commander of the MP company by the municipal authorities, and perhaps

 6     Mr. Franjic felt that he should report to the municipality about his

 7     work.

 8             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, maybe I can

 9     help.  The resignation that was issued six months before that was a

10     resignation from the brigade, and after that he became an MP.  The

11     document, when he says, I've had it, I can no longer remain in the

12     position, the position in question is the position of the brigade

13     commander.  That's what he resigned from.

14             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Yes, and we just take the witness's word for it

15     that what he told us about his later being nominated as chief of the

16     military police of the brigade is, in fact, factual?

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that's correct.

18             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  Whether it's true, we'll have to finally --

19     we'll have to say, but I have understood correctly what has gone on.

20     Thank you, and excuse me for interrupting.

21             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

22        Q.   Mr. Andabak, if I understood you properly, he was the commander

23     of the Military Police Company in Prozor from the month of February 1993;

24     am I right?

25        A.   You are right.

Page 50960

 1        Q.   Now, in front of us we have that report entitled "A Report About

 2     My Work as Commander of the Rama-Prozor Military Police" during the

 3     period between the 10th of February, 1993, and the 21st September 1993.

 4     At the end of the document, before the signature, Mr. Franjic says:

 5             "I hereby submit my irrevocable resignation."

 6             Mr. Andabak, in answering the Trial Chamber's questions, you said

 7     that after you held him to task about what you'd heard at the briefing,

 8     that he submitted a report and that he submitted his resignation at the

 9     same time.  Is this the report, the one that you have before you at the

10     moment?

11        A.   Yes, that's the report.  He ignored me, as the battalion

12     commander at the moment, and he approached directly the Military Police

13     Administration, and he talked to them directly.  He bypassed me.

14        Q.   Mr. Andabak, do you know what happened next with Mr. Franjic?

15     What transpired?

16        A.   As far as I know, Mr. Franjic, after submitting a resignation to

17     the military police, he returned to the Rama Brigade Command as the

18     brigade commander.

19        Q.   And did anything happen in respect of the crimes of which you'd

20     heard at the briefing?

21        A.   We sent crime police to Prozor-Rama.  They took stock of all the

22     unsolved crimes.  We reinforced the military police, and we brought

23     military police officers from other OZs, and we carried out an arrest of

24     Mr. Ilija Franjic and "his men," in inverted commas.  They were not his

25     men, but men who were with him.  They were questioned, they were subject

Page 50961

 1     to investigation, and I don't know what happened with that case after

 2     that.  That was in late November 1993.

 3        Q.   Mr. Andabak, could you please look at 3D00422.  The date is 20

 4     January 1994.  This is an official note made by the military police,

 5     which says:

 6             "Due to the rape of Muslim women, the following persons or

 7     individuals have to be brought in:"

 8             Two names are listed under 1 and 2, and then there is a list of

 9     six people thereafter.

10             Mr. Andabak, you said that Franjic had been arrested in November,

11     and what is happening here?  Who is being arrested pursuant to this

12     document?  Who had been arrested, who was being arrested, at the time

13     this document was issued?

14        A.   According to this document, Zoran Calis and Jure Petrovic had to

15     be arrested for the crime of rape, and the rest of the information was

16     provided to the Crime Prevention Service which had not completed the

17     investigation by then, and the information would be of some use in

18     further investigation and proceedings.

19        Q.   And as for the remaining six, had they already been arrested

20     before that?

21        A.   I really can't remember their names, but most of them had been

22     arrested already.

23        Q.   Mr. Andabak, we're moving to a new topic just briefly.

24             Were you in any way involved in the conflicts which took place in

25     Prozor towards the end of October 1993?  If that was the case, can you

Page 50962

 1     tell us something about that?  I apologise.  In 1992.  I misspoke, I gave

 2     you the wrong year.  It's 1992.

 3        A.   Yes, I was involved in the armed conflicts there, and the reason

 4     was that I found myself spontaneously in the Prozor municipality, and my

 5     primary task was to take a military police company, composed of locals of

 6     Tomislavgrad, Livno and Posusje, and head across Travnik and engage in

 7     combat in order to help the citizens of Jajce, which was encircled by the

 8     Serbs at the time.

 9        Q.   So how did you find yourself there?  Who -- okay, let's take

10     things from the head.  Who issued the order for you to go to Jajce?

11        A.   A verbal order was given to us by the deputy chief of the

12     MP Administration, Mr. Lavric, and he told us to go to Vitez first to

13     report to the commander of the OZ, Mr. Blaskic.  But when we arrived in

14     Prozor in the early-morning hours, the commander of the military police

15     in Prozor informed me that he had received instructions from the MP

16     Administration to go to Travnik, because Mr. Blaskic was already there

17     and from there he would transport us to Jajce.  In the early-morning

18     hours, we arrived at the Karamustafic check-point at the entrance to

19     Gornji Vakuf --

20             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a moment.  The document

21     3D0522 [as interpreted] is actually under seal, so it should not be

22     broadcast outside this courtroom.  I will give the number again, 3D00422.

23             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I apologise to the

24     Trial Chamber.  I missed that completely.  I did not realise that it was

25     under seal.

Page 50963

 1        Q.   Let's see where we left it off.  You said that you arrived at the

 2     Karamustafic check-point?

 3        A.   Yes, that was in the early-morning hours, about half past 4.00 or

 4     5.00.  We were met at barricades on the road.  Those were barricades made

 5     of tree trunks.  On the left-hand side from the check-point, there was a

 6     machine-gun nests manned by the Mujahedin, and I can say that for a fact

 7     because they sported beards and they were different from our men.  And at

 8     the check-point, itself, a military policeman from the ABiH approached

 9     me, and when I asked him what was going on, he said that I should go back

10     to where I came from, that I could not go through.

11        Q.   Could you please look at P00670.  The document was issued by

12     Mr. Praljak and Mr. Stojic.

13        A.   Just a moment.  Bear with me.

14        Q.   You have to go back a bit.

15        A.   I've got it.

16        Q.   It says here -- I can't see the number, but it says:

17             "At this time, we're trying to move an HVO armed formation in the

18     direction of Jajce, and their strength is about 400 armed men."

19             Mr. Andabak, do you know what armed formation is in question

20     here?

21        A.   Well, it's the armed formation of the military police, numbering

22     100 to 120 men, and there was also a unit that had passed through before

23     me, which was a mixed Croatian/Bosniak unit going to Jajce, commanded by

24     Ante Prkoca [phoen], and they were going to Jajce's reinforcement.

25        Q.   Mr. Andabak, you told us earlier on that you did not submit

Page 50964

 1     combat reports to the Military Police Administration.  Now I'd like to

 2     ask you to look at the document P00712.  You said that you included --

 3     you became involved in the combat in Prozor spontaneously, but it says

 4     here -- well, this is a report which you are sending to Mr. Coric, and it

 5     is titled "Report on the Events in the Prozor Municipality and

 6     Gornji Vakuf Municipality."  Now, why did you submit this report to

 7     Mr. Coric in the first place?

 8        A.   As commander, I did not arrive at the spot where I was ordered to

 9     go, and I wanted to inform the chief of the military police with the

10     activities that the military police had engaged in during that period.

11        Q.   All right, Mr. Andabak.  Now tell me this:  Were you involved in

12     the events -- or, rather, conflicts in Gornji Vakuf at the beginning of

13     January 1993, you or your unit?  Was it involved in any of that?

14        A.   Yes, I was involved, and so was my unit.

15        Q.   Would you look at P01053 next, please.

16             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second, Colonel.

17             The question regarding Prozor is important, because it is in the

18     indictment.  According to the Prosecutor's case, in October, and more

19     precisely on the 25th of October, 1992, the HVO launched an operation in

20     order to arrest Muslims and to force them to leave the town.  I will not

21     go into further details.  This is the case of the Prosecution.

22             You said that you were there in Prozor, so what is interesting is

23     to hear your version.  Do you agree with the case of the Prosecution,

24     namely, that it's the HVO that launched the attack, or do you disagree?

25     And if you disagree, why?

Page 50965

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I don't agree with

 2     what it says in the indictment, as far as the allegations and accusations

 3     about Prozor are concerned, because I know full well that the Croatian

 4     forces, whether military or municipal, together with the Bosniak side, as

 5     far as I know, and I heard about this, talked about easing tensions in

 6     Gornji Vakuf.  So I'm telling you about what I heard.  And I know that

 7     the conflict broke out, and the brigade commander, of the Rama Brigade,

 8     that is, that the Bosniaks had killed a Croat and seriously wounded

 9     another, and that this other Croat, after he passed away -- well, that's

10     how the conflict started between the Croats and Bosniaks in Prozor, with

11     the killing of two citizens or, rather, two Croatian soldiers, although

12     efforts were being made to calm tensions on both sides.

13             And my soldiers, when they returned from that check-point, well,

14     90 per cent of them were to be found in the Bosniak cafes.  They

15     socialised with the Bosniaks.  One of them worked in the hydroelectric

16     power company of Jablanica.  And they socialised and were deciding when

17     to meet next, but the conflict broke out that very evening.  But there

18     was no organised attack against the Bosniaks to disarm them or anything

19     like that.

20             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As far as you know, what did

21     the HOS do?

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I can't commend the

23     HOS in that operation at all -- in that conflict, I meant to say - not

24     "operation," "conflict" - because I was almost killed by them, myself.

25             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Give us some details.

Page 50966

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, mostly, whether they were HOS

 2     men or whatever, but I saw that insignia, Your Honour, on the sleeves of

 3     these men, and I know that -- well, in my opinion - I'm giving you my own

 4     opinion - that their prime task was looting, and I heard people say,

 5     while some people were engaged in combat, they would be looting, taking

 6     cameras, bottles of whiskey, or whatever.

 7             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]

 8        Q.   Mr. Andabak, well, I asked you whether you were involved in the

 9     Gornji Vakuf events of January 1993, and for that I asked you to look at

10     P01053, which is a report from Mr. Coric in which he states that you were

11     given the assignment of carrying out the relocation of police units of

12     the 2nd Battalion and 1st Active Military Police Battalion, and he says

13     that the main task of this assignment was to preserve law and order, the

14     protection of the population and inhabited areas, to restore road

15     traffic, and defuse fear among the Croatian population in the said

16     municipalities.

17             Now, Mr. Andabak, tell me this:  Did you receive this assignment

18     with these contents?  Do you remember having received that?

19        A.   Yes, I do remember receiving this document, setting out my main

20     assignments.

21        Q.   Now, when you arrived -- or, rather, let's look at the next

22     document first.  So we're skipping one document and going on to P01350,

23     and that will be the last document that we're going to discuss.  It's the

24     minutes from the meeting held on the 27th of January, 1993, on the

25     premises of the Military Police Centre in Ljubuski.

Page 50967

 1             Tell me now, Mr. Andabak, did you attend that meeting?

 2        A.   Yes, I did attend the meeting with my subordinate commanders.

 3        Q.   Do you know who convened the meeting?

 4        A.   As far as I know, the meeting was convened by General Praljak.

 5        Q.   And what was discussed at the meeting?

 6        A.   Well, mostly the situation in Gornji Vakuf and Central Bosnia was

 7     discussed, and logistics support to the military police, replenishment of

 8     personnel, the role of the military police in general, its training and

 9     education.  And we learnt some lessons, what could be done, what couldn't

10     be done.  And that was the first time that we saw Mr. Coric.  He issued

11     an order to us in the previous document, and he was in Zagreb at the

12     time, so he didn't know that we were involved in the Gornji Vakuf

13     operations and combat.  So this was an opportunity for him to talk to us

14     and to hear about our activities in the area.

15        Q.   And who was your commander while you were in Gornji Vakuf?

16        A.   In Gornji Vakuf, we were under the command of the operative zone.

17     And when we were in the town of Vakuf, itself, we were under the command

18     of the Ante Starcevic Brigade.

19        Q.   Tell us, at this meeting did anybody mention the fact that

20     members of the military police, during these events in Gornji Vakuf had

21     committed any unlawful acts, such as setting fire to houses, looting

22     property, and the like?

23        A.   No, that was not discussed, nobody mentioned anything like that,

24     and there was information that that did not happen.

25             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

Page 50968

 1     That concludes my examination-in-chief.

 2             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you,

 3     Mr. Tomasegovic Tomic, for having abided by the two hours that had been

 4     allocated to you.

 5             We shall have a break now and resume at 6.00.

 6                           --- Recess taken at 5.41 p.m.

 7                           --- On resuming at 6.03 p.m.

 8             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session,

 9     so we're going to start with Mr. Stojic's Defence.

10             And, Ms. Nozica, you have the floor.

11             MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

12             I would like to greet everybody in the courtroom, and I would

13     like to inform the Trial Chamber that I have 32 minutes for my

14     cross-examination, pursuant to your decision.

15                           Cross-examination by Ms. Nozica:

16        Q.   [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. Andabak.  I can see that you

17     have been provided with my set of documents, and I believe that everybody

18     else has received them as well.

19             Mr. Andabak, earlier today, on page 35 of today's transcript, on

20     line 12, you spoke about meetings or briefings in the OZ, and you said

21     that you attended those briefings at the -- in the office of the

22     commander of the OZ.  Could you tell the Trial Chamber whether the

23     assistant commander of the OZ for SIS, IPD, and Medical Services, was

24     also present at those briefings?

25        A.   Madam Counsel, the persons you mentioned attended each briefing

Page 50969

 1     or were replaced by persons appointed by them.

 2        Q.   Mr. Andabak, you said that you received orders from the OZ

 3     commander; isn't that right?

 4        A.   Yes, madam.

 5        Q.   Were the orders both oral and written, or either/or written?

 6        A.   Both orders, both oral and written.

 7        Q.   And I'm trying to focus on the assistants for SIS, IPD, and

 8     Medical Services.  At those briefings that you attended, did those

 9     persons inform the OZ commander about having performed tasks and orders

10     that they had previously received from the commander?

11        A.   Madam, as far as I can remember, the officers for IPD and Medical

12     Services did, but I believe that the assistant for security did not brief

13     the OZ commander before us because of the nature of his duties.

14        Q.   Mr. Andabak, are you saying that the assistant for SIS reported

15     directly to the commander of the OZ about the performance of the tasks

16     that he had received?

17        A.   I would say so, most probably.

18        Q.   Can you now look at P970.  I've not prepared it because it was

19     shown to you a while ago.  Your going to see it in e-court.  This is a

20     report.  We're going to see it very shortly on e-court.  Yes, that's it.

21             This is a report that you've already spoken about and answered

22     questions put to you by Mr. Coric's counsel, and you said that the

23     handwritten addition, "SIS," is the handwriting of Mr. Siljeg, who was

24     the commander of the OZ; is that correct?

25        A.   Yes, that's correct, madam.

Page 50970

 1        Q.   Could you please tell the Trial Chamber whether you can recognise

 2     the family name that you see beneath the word "SIS"?

 3        A.   This is the assistant commander of our OZ for SIS,

 4     Mr. Drago Banovic.

 5        Q.   Mr. Andabak, does this list mean that Mr. Siljeg forwarded your

 6     report to his assistant for SIS, Mr. Drago Banovic?

 7        A.   Precisely, and this document is signed over to him.

 8        Q.   Mr. Andabak, with regard to document P4110, describing the

 9     situation in Mokronoge, you spoke about that on page 32, lines 13 through

10     18, and His Honour Judge Antonetti asked you why the brigade military

11     police called SIS.  Was that the brigade SIS which was under the same

12     command as the brigade military police?

13        A.   Yes, it was the SIS of the Krajl Tomislav Brigade.

14        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Andabak.  And now I would like us to try and

15     clarify an ambiguity that His Honour Judge Trechsel pointed to.

16             Could the Court please produce P1099, 1099.  This is the

17     brigade's schematic which we've already seen.  Please wait for a moment

18     and you will see it.

19             His Honour Judge Trechsel pointed to the following fact -- could

20     we please move on to the following page, both in Croatian and in English,

21     please.  Yes, that's it.

22             We can collate the original with the translator, and we can see

23     that some information under column 10, 14 and 15 were added subsequently

24     by hand.  Isn't that so, Mr. Andabak?

25        A.   Yes, you're right, the names of the commanders and people in the

Page 50971

 1     staff were added by hand under columns 10, 14 and 15.

 2        Q.   His Honour Judge Trechsel asked you whether it was possible for

 3     the commander to have 380 vehicles at his disposal.  But if we look

 4     further down, we can see that his deputy, if the figure were to be

 5     correct, also had 370, then the co-ordinator for social welfare had 350

 6     vehicles.  I will not ask you to make any speculations, but I'm sure that

 7     you can't explain the figures; is that right?

 8        A.   Yeah, that's right.  I really don't know where the figures came

 9     from and what they mean.

10        Q.   And now could you please look at the first document in the

11     binder, which is 2D01370.

12             For the transcript, I'm going to say that document 2D01370 is

13     another schematic of the brigade establishment without any handwritten

14     additions, so it is in its original form.  And I would also like to say

15     that the document has already been admitted into evidence.

16             Look at it for yourself, the second page of the document, or

17     maybe you can go through all the pages, and you will be able to see very

18     clearly that this is actually the original schematic without any

19     handwritten additions or added information.

20             I'm waiting for your answer, sir.

21        A.   Yes, you're right, this is the original schematic without the

22     names or anything else.

23        Q.   Very well.  Mr. Andabak, could we please look at the following

24     document, which is P610.  That's the next document in my binder.  This is

25     a daily report by Mr. Valentin Coric, and I am going to ask you only

Page 50972

 1     about the first paragraph in this daily report, where it says because of

 2     the events in Central Bosnia, pursuant to the:

 3             "On the order of the head of the Defence Department, we sent a

 4     reinforcement from the 2nd Battalion ..."

 5             Mr. Andabak, earlier today, on page 63, on lines from 2 to 3, you

 6     said that you had been sent to Jajce pursuant to an oral order issued by

 7     Mr. Rade Lavric; am I right?  Is that correct?

 8        A.   That's what I said, and, yes, that's correct.

 9        Q.   One could conclude, based on that, that you were not sent

10     pursuant to an order by Mr. Stojic, actually that you never seen an order

11     of that kind from Mr. Stojic; am I right?

12        A.   Yes, you are.

13        Q.   I did not want to interrupt my learned friend.  I wanted to make

14     a correction on the transcript.  On page 64, line 3, the name Rade Lavric

15     was not recorded, although the witness did mention the gentleman's name.

16     Am I right, sir?

17        A.   Yes, you are right.

18        Q.   And now I would kindly ask you to look at the following document,

19     which is P3146.  This would be an order issued by Mr. Bruno Stojic on the

20     3rd of July, 1993, and that order was sent to the Petar Kresimir Brigade

21     in Livno.  In paragraph 1 of this order, it says that:

22             "The Livno Military Police (company) under the command of

23     Mr. Andabak, must be relocated to Mostar by 2000 hours on 3rd July 1993."

24             Under 2, it says:

25             "If the commander," or you, "fails to understand the

Page 50973

 1     newly-developed situation, criminal charges will be brought against him."

 2             And under 3:

 3             "The brigade command must deliver this order to Mr. Andabak," to

 4     you.

 5             Mr. Andabak, did you ever receive this order issued by

 6     Mr. Bruno Stojic?

 7        A.   Madam, I did not receive this order, but I heard about it at a

 8     later date.

 9        Q.   Mr. Andabak, during that period of time did you arrive in Mostar?

10     After the 30th of June, did you arrive in Mostar at all?

11        A.   Madam, I didn't arrive in Mostar after I was sent there by the

12     minister of defence, who told me to go there.  I said on that occasion to

13     the defence minister, Mr. Stojic, that I already had problems with the

14     commander of the OZ, who accused me of deserting from the theatre of war

15     and that I frequently went to Mostar in order to gain ranks or

16     privileges, and our conversation stopped there.  In the meantime, the

17     Chief of the Main Staff, Mr. Petkovic, called me, and together with my

18     unit, after that call I went to Mostar, and there I met with

19     General Petkovic and with the defence minister in his office.  I received

20     my orders from General Petkovic because I knew that General Petkovic was

21     the OZ commander's superior, and I was convinced that the two of them had

22     an agreement about that order being issued to me.

23        Q.   Mr. Andabak, when did all that happen, on what day?

24        A.   It was on the 30th.

25        Q.   What month?

Page 50974

 1        A.   It was on the 30th of June, 1993.

 2        Q.   When you arrived in Mostar with your unit, where were you

 3     deployed and by whom?

 4        A.   When we arrived in Mostar, pursuant to an order of the Chief of

 5     the Main Staff, we were deployed by the commander of the Mostar city

 6     defence.

 7        Q.   Very well.  Let's look at the following document in the binder,

 8     which is P1615.  This is a report that you submitted to the Military

 9     Police Administration, judging by the stamp, and you say in this report

10     that on the 2nd and the 3rd --

11             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I wished to see whether this

12     document was a follow-up to the previous document.  Let me get back to

13     the previous document.

14             Mr. Stojic issues an order on the 7th of July in order to

15     relocate a company of military policemen in Mostar.  And then you said

16     that you arrived in Mostar on the 30th of June, 1993.  Why did you go to

17     Mostar?  What did you do there, exactly?

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We went to Mostar to reinforce

19     units that were already deployed in Mostar.

20             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What did you need reinforcement

21     for?

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, most probably there were not

23     enough troops to man the separation line.  We're talking one company

24     only.

25             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You say in order to be

Page 50975

 1     deployed.  This wasn't aimed at providing a helping hand to those people

 2     who were disarming the HVO units in which there were Muslims?

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, that was not the goal,

 4     Your Honour.

 5             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] When, on the 30th of June, you

 6     went to the unit of the military police, were there Muslims under your

 7     command?

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, there were.

 9             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As far as you remember, where

10     were you positioned, exactly?

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We were billeted in the

12     Herceg Stjepan Kosic Hall.

13             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] That is where you had

14     assembled.  But during the day, what were you doing?

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What we did during the day?  We

16     were deployed on a front-line, and that's where we were, in shifts,

17     manning that line.

18             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right.

19             MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I thought

20     that that was already clear and well known.

21        Q.   Mr. Andabak, on the 30th of June, what was the situation like in

22     Mostar?  Was your assistance needed because of the BiH attacks on the HVO

23     units in Mostar?  Did you know that?  Was that the situation?

24        A.   Madam, I know that there had been an attack of the BiH Army or

25     that an attack was underway in the direction of Mostar and Citluk, with a

Page 50976

 1     view to taking Hum Hill and the surrounding area.

 2        Q.   Mr. Andabak, you're talking about the moment when you arrived?

 3     That was going on at the time when you arrived; right?

 4        A.   There were attacks before our arrival, and some were ongoing at

 5     the moment of our arrival.

 6        Q.   Could we please look at P1615, which is the following document in

 7     my binder.  I've already said that the document is your report, dated the

 8     2nd of March, when some meat was stolen from the Heliodrom kitchen.

 9     Further on, it says that the head of the Defence Department called you,

10     because you are the one who signed this report; right?

11        A.   Yes, I signed it.

12        Q.   And he asked you about your observations of the Heliodrom

13     facility.  You carried out certain checks, and you informed Mr. Stojic

14     that the military police was in charge of the main entrance into

15     Heliodrom and that the other entrances are secured by other soldiers, and

16     the head of the department agreed with your report.

17             Mr. Andabak, are we talking about the entire Heliodrom barracks,

18     the entire facility?  Is that the main entrance that you had in mind when

19     you wrote this report?

20        A.   Yes, that's what I meant.  The military police control was weak

21     at the main gate, and the military police was only at the main gate, not

22     elsewhere.

23        Q.   Which kitchen did the meat go missing from?  Did you establish

24     that when you carried out your observation task?

25        A.   The main kitchen which provided food for the troops.

Page 50977

 1        Q.   Mr. Andabak, earlier on, to Judge Antonetti's questions, you

 2     talked about the arrest and bringing in members of the HVO of Muslim

 3     ethnicity, in 1993, in Livno.  Could you please tell the Trial Chamber

 4     whether, in 1992, in Livno, whether there was a military prison there at

 5     the time?

 6        A.   Madam, there was a military prison in Livno from the month of May

 7     to the beginning of September 1992.  It was a prison which housed Serbs

 8     on whom weapons had been discovered.

 9        Q.   And who provided security for that prison, Mr. Andabak?  Who was

10     it in the course of 1992?

11        A.   The military police, on the strength of the Livno Brigade.

12        Q.   And you say that the prison existed up to September 1992.  And in

13     1993, was there a prison in Livno at that time?

14        A.   Madam, I would not say that there was a prison in 1993.  I would

15     say that it was more of a collection centre which existed as a place

16     where disarmed Muslims were taken and stayed there from three to five

17     days, depending on their role in their armed uprisal against Croats.  And

18     the body in charge was the brigade.  The brigade military police provided

19     security, and the staff of that brigade appointed by the brigade

20     commander.  In any case, the Active Service Military Police had nothing

21     to do with incarcerated Bosniaks who were accommodated there.

22        Q.   Let's look at P867 now, please.

23             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Andabak, I was still

24     looking at the document on the theft of meat.  You might say this was a

25     minor occurrence, but we can see that an investigation was conducted, and

Page 50978

 1     from what I understand, you identified the perpetrators, i.e., the people

 2     that stole the meat.  Strangely enough, I see the name of Mr. Tuta, who

 3     intervenes for Mate Culo to be released.  Was Mate Culo one of the people

 4     who was suspected of having stolen the meat?

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, let me just clarify

 6     this.

 7             We didn't determined who had stolen the meat.  But when I wrote

 8     this report, I talked to the operative duty office in the military police

 9     and said that I had another request from Mr. Tuta that we should release

10     a certain soldier by the name of Mate Culo who was probably in the prison

11     in Ljubuski, which was under the military police, and so I just let them

12     know about that so that the Administration of the Military Police should

13     know about this.  And as I talked to Minister Bruno Stojic and sent this

14     report, I sent in this request for release of this particular soldier,

15     and I sent this out as a piece of information to the active-duty officer.

16             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Here is why I'm surprised:  You

17     report this to the minister of defence, Mr. Stojic, and you are reporting

18     an incident with one soldier who is held, and you want this soldier to be

19     freed.  We don't really know what he's done.  But why do you report this

20     to the minister?  Does that mean that at that time the minister of

21     defence was following personally the situation of each and every soldier?

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no, you misunderstood

23     this.  I am submitting this report to the operative duty officer in the

24     Military Police Administration, whom I told that I had talked to the

25     minister.  I told the minister that I was in the location.  I told him

Page 50979

 1     where the problem was about this stolen meat, and then I said that we

 2     would send in a request to have a soldier released.  But we had no

 3     responsibility towards those soldiers or the prisons held by the brigade

 4     military police.  So the defence minister had nothing to do with the

 5     release of prisoners, nor the military police.  I'm just sending this

 6     piece of information about this request.

 7             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.

 8             Please proceed.

 9             MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you.

10        Q.   Mr. Andabak, let's be precise.  Your answer was that you were

11     sending this report to the operative duty officer in the Military Police

12     Administration, whom you were informing about your conversation with

13     Mr. Stojic, and you were also sending him everything listed here?

14        A.   Yes, to the operative duty officer, and I informed the minister

15     orally about this.

16        Q.   I see, thank you.  You informed Mr. Stojic about the stolen meat,

17     right, and the situation -- or, rather, what you established in that

18     regard?

19        A.   Yes, that's right, and that's what it says in the report, what

20     the military police should do, and the security, and so on.

21        Q.   All right.  Now look at P867, the next document, please.  We'll

22     go through that very quickly, because I've been informed that I only have

23     12 minutes left.

24             Mr. Andabak, you were shown today document P781, which states the

25     establishment of the -- the system, according to establishment, of the

Page 50980

 1     operative zone.  And we see there that according to that organisation, we

 2     have the 2nd Military Police Battalion.  And you answered a question from

 3     Judge Antonetti, saying that you were, with respect to document P781,

 4     subordinated to the commander of the operative zone in the performance of

 5     duties and tasks.  And this document, signed by Mr. Siljeg on the 6th of

 6     December, 1992, it says:

 7             "On the basis of the arisen need and due to the formation of the

 8     Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina, and with the aim of reducing

 9     the number of connections with the Main Staff, and in order to provide

10     successful leading and commanding of the units, I order:

11             "The commands of all the units of the HVO subordinated to the

12     command of the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina, that they are

13     obliged to send all requests and proposals and needs to the Defence

14     Department through this command."

15             Mr. Andabak, were you informed about this order, and did you act

16     in conformity with this order?

17        A.   I was informed of this order at the briefing.  And as you can see

18     from the order, itself, we weren't named in this order, so we didn't have

19     to act.

20        Q.   But you were informed of it, you knew about it?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   Now look at P1053.

23        A.   I don't seem to have that.

24        Q.   It's document 3D, actually, 3D478, 3D478.  Have you found it?

25     The document is signed by Mr. Zrinko Tokic on the 22nd of January, 1993.

Page 50981

 1     And during the examination-in-chief today, you were asked about this

 2     document, or, rather, about document P1083, and your stay in Gornji Vakuf

 3     in January 1993.  So this an operative report.

 4             Let's look at the last sentence.  It says:

 5             "Units of this brigade," and we're talking about the

 6     Ante Starcevic Brigade from Gornji Vakuf, "and units added are

 7     co-ordinated and shall carry out all the orders issued by this command."

 8             Now, Mr. Andabak, this observation, does it refer to your unit as

 9     well, since at the time you were in Gornji Vakuf?

10        A.   Yes, this order does refer to the military police units, because

11     they were under the command of the Ante Starcevic Brigade.

12        Q.   Once more, for the record, it was document 3D478.  Yes, it's

13     correctly recorded in the transcript.

14             Now, Mr. Andabak, you spoke about Mr. Franjic today.  You

15     testified about him and said that sometime at the end of November, in an

16     operation, he was arrested because of his acts -- because of acts

17     committed in the Prozor area.

18             Look at P6734 now, please.  This is an order dated the 19th of

19     November, 1993, in the which, under item 1, it says:

20             "On the basis of military police security tasks at the

21     Prozor-Vakuf front ..."

22             The order is signed by Mr. Rade Lavric.  And to go back to item

23     1, it says that the perpetrators of crimes were Andrijo Beljo,

24     Ilija Franjic, and Ante Bradic, nicknamed Banja Luka [as interpreted].

25     These persons and all others responsible for the disturbing public law

Page 50982

 1     and order are to be arrested and taken to the Ljubuski Military Remand

 2     Prison.

 3             So was that the order under which Mr. Ilija Franjic was arrested?

 4        A.   Madam, that is the order, and that is the operation by which the

 5     military police arrested these persons and others who worked in cohort

 6     with them.

 7        Q.   I missed a document.  Would you look at 5D4377, please.  Have you

 8     found it?

 9        A.   Yes, I have.

10        Q.   During the examination-in-chief today, you said that it was the

11     commander of the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina that you

12     received oral and written orders.  Here we have one such order, where it

13     says:

14             "Pursuant to an oral order of the North-West Herzegovina OZ

15     commander, Colonel Zeljko Siljeg, dated the 18 of April, 1993, I hereby

16     order:

17             "That one company from the active-service strength of the 2nd

18     Military Police Battalion report to the OZ --" or, rather, "IZM, the

19     forward command post at Prozor, by 0700 hours," report to

20     Mr. Colonel Siljeg, "on the 19th of April."

21             And we see that Mr. Ante Govorusic's name is written down there.

22             Now, Mr. Andabak, did you receive this order and did you act upon

23     it?

24        A.   I'm familiar with this order.  We did receive this order.  The

25     Livno and -- and we sent to the Livno and Tomislavgrad unit

Page 50983

 1     reinforcements.  And as for Ante Govorusic, somebody else signed for him:

 2             MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Andabak.  My time is

 3     up.  I'm told that was my last question.  Thank you for answering my

 4     questions.

 5             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] For Mr. Praljak.

 6             MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Good morning [as interpreted],

 7     Witness.

 8             And, Your Honours, we have 20 minutes left, as I see, and I'll

 9     try and cover one area by that time.

10             Could the usher help me out and distribute the documents, please.

11             Your Honours, we also have 32 minutes, pursuant to your ruling.

12                           Cross-examination by Mr. Kovacic:

13        Q.   [Interpretation] Good evening, Witness.  I am from the Praljak

14     Defence, and I have a few questions for you.

15             From your testimony and the documents we have looked at, and also

16     from other exhibits and evidence that we have heard presented during this

17     trial -- could I ask the usher at this point to hand over a set of

18     documents to my colleague behind me.  We seem to be concerned about the

19     documents.  And could -- I hope you're not going to count this time used

20     up in the distribution of documents against me.

21             So from your testimony and from other evidence presented here,

22     I'd like to summarise certain facts, or, rather, I'm going to give you an

23     observation.  Tell me if it's correct or not.

24             There are basically three forms of action of the regional

25     military police battalions.  The first is regional military police

Page 50984

 1     battalions act in conformity with the basic establishment documents

 2     governing the organisation of the military police; that is to say, they

 3     carry out their regular duties or typically military police assignments;

 4     would that be correct?

 5        A.   That is correct, except the regional military police, that term

 6     you used, is not the right term.  I don't know what you mean when you say

 7     "regional military police."

 8        Q.   You're quite right.  It's a technical term used frequently by

 9     people when they were talking about a military police battalion of the

10     kind in which you were commander, because they were distributed in

11     regions; right?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   Secondly, the second form, which is exceptional, is that military

14     police units sometimes carry out certain tasks and assignments of a

15     military nature, just like any other typical HVO military units, and such

16     assignments, in such cases, they carry out completely independently as a

17     separately-issued order or assignment.  Are there any such cases?

18        A.   I don't remember any cases where they acted independently.

19     That's not right.  They were always attached to one of the units, and

20     they came within the composition of one of the units that already

21     existed.

22        Q.   All right.  Now, let's try and clarify this and see what the

23     documents say.

24             Look at P05478 first, please.  It's the first document in that

25     binder.  As we can see, it's an order signed by Mr. Valentin Coric, dated

Page 50985

 1     the 29th of September, 1993.  It says:

 2             "Send the order urgently," et cetera, "to the 2nd Light

 3     Assault Battalion."

 4             But I'm interested in the last paragraph.  It says:

 5             "Equip the unit with the requisite ammunition and equipment to

 6     permit them to operate independently in the utilisation zone to which

 7     they are assigned."

 8             And the dead-line for completion is such and such.

 9             So is this an independent assignment of some kind or is it an

10     assignment which you will be given in more precise terms when you report

11     to Siljeg, as it says in the first paragraph?

12        A.   Counsel, this unit is on the Mostar front.  The unit, pursuant to

13     a command from the Main Staff, is sent to the North-West Herzegovina

14     Operative Zone to carry out the assignments and to --

15             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the witness kindly slow down, please,

16     thank you, for the benefit of one and all.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They need ammunition and equipment,

18     whether for RPG shells or whatever, and that's why Mr. Valentin Coric

19     says that the unit should be equipped as if it was going to carry out an

20     operation independently.  And when it reports to the operative zone, then

21     Colonel Siljeg will deploy it, deploy the men.

22        Q.   Thank you.  So we've explained this, have we?

23             JUDGE TRECHSEL:  I'm not sure whether the witness is aware of

24     this.  Witness, the interpreters have complained that you speak too fast,

25     and they ask you to slow down a little bit.

Page 50986

 1             MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] It's my fault, Your Honour, because

 2     we were speaking the same language and I wanted to speed up.

 3        Q.   From what you've told us, the independent action only refers to

 4     equipping the unit for it to be able to act when it gets to the area to

 5     which it has been assigned?

 6        A.   Yes, that's right, so that it would be ready to carry out its

 7     assignment.

 8        Q.   When it is on loan to the unit, right, attached to it; is that

 9     right?

10        A.   Yes, that's right, Counsel.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Now let's see whether the situation is the same with

12     the next document.  P1053 is the number.  We've already seen the document

13     today, but I'm interested in something else contained in the document.

14             The document is dated the 5th of January, 1993, once again signed

15     by the chief, Mr. Valentin Coric, and I'm interested in the last sentence

16     there, which reads as follows:

17             "These units are under the command of the chief of the Military

18     Police Administration --" rather, "the commander of the 2nd Military

19     Police Battalion located at the forward command post in Gornji Vakuf

20     municipality."

21             Now, tell us, what is being established here?  Does this mean

22     that you were within the hierarchy of the military police alone in your

23     assignment, and were independent in that sense, or were you subordinated

24     to some other unit on that assignment?  Can you explain that to me,

25     please?

Page 50987

 1        A.   Counsel, as we are dealing with the first active-duty military

 2     police --

 3        Q.   Just a moment.  I think I misspoke.  It's an interim report, but

 4     it explains something that was contained in a previous order.  Do you

 5     agree with that?

 6        A.   Well, here the chief of the Military Police Administration is

 7     informing the minister about this assignment, about sending men for the

 8     1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion, which was under the direct

 9     command of the Military Police Administration, and that is why it says

10     that.  That is why there is a separate order, because it was being sent

11     by the chief, and the chief can send it to any locality under the command

12     of the operative zone.  But since I was in the operative zone already,

13     they would report to me, and then through the command of the operative

14     zone I would be given assignments for myself and for the active-duty

15     battalion.

16        Q.   Thank you.  So that is, once again, a form of re-subordination,

17     right, but a little different in technical terms in this case; right?

18        A.   That's right.

19        Q.   Thank you.  And this brings us to this third form.  So the second

20     was re-subordination.  Once again, we've clarified that.  Now, the third

21     way in which this was done is as follows, and please correct me if I'm

22     wrong --

23             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The dates are very important

24     for these documents, and this document is dated 5th of January, 1993.

25             Colonel, according to the Prosecutor, the HVO issued an ultimatum

Page 50988

 1     on the 5th of January towards the ABiH, and I look at this document

 2     through the case of the Prosecution.  This document is addressed to

 3     Mr. Stojic, and it's actually relevant to you because you have received

 4     some instructions.  You were told to deploy your police units in Bugojno,

 5     Prozor, Gornji Vakuf, and Jablanica.  120 policemen of the 2nd Battalion

 6     and 35 policemen from the active battalion are actually involved in this

 7     operation.  What is the purpose?  Well, it's to preserve law and order

 8     and protect civilians.

 9             So according to you, is it an operation of an exceptional nature?

10     Because we have the involvement of the minister of defence, Mr. Coric, as

11     well as yourself, and we are dealing with four towns that are rather

12     substantial.  So what is the situation on the 5th of January which will

13     trigger such a deployment of the military police?

14             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'll tell you exactly

15     what happened on the ground.  You're just looking at the date, the 5th of

16     January, but you're not looking at what happened a week before that and

17     what the troop movements were; was it the BH Army or the HVO on the

18     territory mentioned, and so on.

19             In Gornji Vakuf, Bugojno, Jablanica, I had my platoons and

20     companies, military police platoons and companies, which acted attached

21     with the municipal brigades.  And I spent time in those areas myself, and

22     I saw the BH Army and how much they were bringing into the Gornji Vakuf

23     area units from Zenica, for example, Fojnica, Travnik, and even, in part,

24     from Bugojno.  And I know for certain that the military police from

25     Jablanica was already in some villages around Gornji Vakuf.  I also know

Page 50989

 1     that the brigade commander had daily contacts with the brigade which was

 2     stationed in Gornji Vakuf; of the BH Army, I mean.

 3             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So if I'm to understand

 4     correctly from what you've just said, this document should be interpreted

 5     given what happened the week before the 5th of January, when the ABiH

 6     launched an important action which led to the reaction from the military

 7     police from the HVO; is that what you're saying here?

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's not what I'm saying.  Every

 9     day in the past week, the BH Army forces infiltrated into these areas,

10     and I found it necessary to inform the head of the Military Police

11     Administration about the difficult situation in these municipalities.

12     And, therefore, I was given instructions about what I should do under the

13     circumstances.  And as you can see, we have this interim report, and

14     according to that, the first and prime task was to maintain law and

15     order, and to protect the population, and to ensure that the roads were

16     open to traffic, roads between Jablanica, Prozor, Vakuf, and Bugojno, in

17     co-operation with the BH Army.

18             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Regarding the last paragraph,

19     and we will conclude with this question, is there not a contradiction

20     with what you've just said?  You said that the military police was

21     subordinated to the brigade commander, but here you can see, in the last

22     paragraph, it says that those units are under the command of the chief of

23     the Military Police Administration; namely, under the command of

24     Mr. Coric.  Is there not a contradiction here?

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't see any contradiction

Page 50990

 1     there, Your Honour.  What I am saying is that in the establishment of the

 2     military police, the 1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion was

 3     directly linked with the head of the Military Police Administration, and

 4     he can distribute them to any zone.  And I was in OZ North-West

 5     Herzegovina, and I was at the forward command post, as it says, in

 6     Gornji Vakuf.

 7             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  So you're saying

 8     that, in fact, it's the 1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion who was

 9     directly linked or under the direct command of Mr. Coric.  As far as you

10     are concerned, you are at the forward command post of Gornji Vakuf.  Is

11     that how I should understand what you said, or am I being mistaken here?

12             THE WITNESS:  [No interpretation]

13             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

14             MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] We're having trouble with

15     the interpretation channels.  The witness was receiving the English and

16     not the B/C/S.

17             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.

18             When you answered my question, Witness, there was no

19     interpretation, apparently.  Could you perhaps repeat what you said when

20     answering my question, my last question?

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What I said was, Your Honour, that

22     the Active-Duty Military Police Battalion had contacts with the chief of

23     the Military Police Administration.  But when they came to me at the

24     forward command post, where I was, it was placed under the command of the

25     operative zone, and I was there to co-ordinate them, how they should be

Page 50991

 1     taken in, deployed, and so on.  So that's what this report refers to.

 2     The 1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion could not come to the OZ

 3     without an order because it was coming in from another operative zone.

 4             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It's on the transcript.

 5             It's 7.00.  Mr. Kovacic, you will have 24 minutes left.  You have

 6     had 8 minutes so far.

 7             We shall resume on Wednesday, at quarter past 2.00.

 8             Mr. Bos.

 9             MR. BOS:  Yes, Your Honours.  Good afternoon.

10             I just want to do make a correction to the transcript, which is

11     no longer on the screen, but on page 89, line 15 and 16, when you asked

12     the question, President Antonetti:

13             "You referred to an ultimatum on the 5th of January towards the

14     ABiH ..."

15             And it may have been a translation error, but I think that should

16     have been the 15th of January, rather than the 5th of January.

17             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, Mr. --

18             MR. BOS:  It should be the 15th of January.

19             MR. KOVACIC:  Your Honour, if we may correct that.  Probably the

20     word "ultimatum," which somehow gets into the transcript, is wrong, but

21     the question was about 5th January because the document is about 5th

22     January, and that is why Judge started with "5th January"; am I right,

23     Your Honour?

24             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, the ultimatum could

25     have been dated the 5th of January, not the 15th.  The witness answered

Page 50992

 1     the question, whatever the case may be, and said there were other reasons

 2     for that.

 3             We shall reconvene on Wednesday at a quarter past 2.00 [as

 4     interpreted].  Thank you.

 5                           [The witness stands down]

 6                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.03 p.m.,

 7                           to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 17th day of

 8                           March, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.