1 Thursday, 29 January 2004
2 [Further Appearance]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 3.02 p.m.
5 JUDGE LIU: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Could Madam
6 Registrar call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour. Case number
8 IT-95-12-I, the Prosecutor versus Ivica Rajic, also known as Viktor
10 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. For the sake of the record, could we have
11 the appearances, please. For the Prosecution first.
12 MR. SCOTT: Sorry, Your Honour. Good afternoon, Your Honour.
13 Kenneth Scott for the Prosecutor and Josee D'Aoust also, and our case
14 manager Lakshmie Walpita.
15 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. And for the Defence.
16 MR. OLUJIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. My name
17 is Zeljko Olujic. I'm Defence counsel for Mr. Ivica Rajic from the
18 Republic of Croatia, Zagreb, and with me in the courtroom today is my
19 colleague Doris Kosta, co-counsel in the case. Thank you.
20 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. We will proceed with the further
21 appearance of the accused, Mr. Rajic, pursuant to Rule 50(B) and 62 of
22 Rules of Procedure and Evidence.
23 First of all, I would like to recall the procedural history of the
24 case. The initial indictment against the accused was issued by the
25 Prosecution on the 23rd of August, 1995, and confirmed on the 29th August
1 1995. International arrest warrants were issued against the accused.
2 On 13 September 1996, the indictment was reconfirmed, and again
3 international arrest warrants were issued against the accused.
4 The accused was arrested in Croatia on 5 April 2003 and
5 transferred to the Detention Unit of the International Tribunal on 24 June
6 2003. On the initial appearance held on 27 June 2003, the accused pleaded
7 not guilty to all counts of the initial indictment.
8 On 25 August 2003, the Defence filed a motion challenging the form
9 of the indictment. In its response filed on 4 September 2003, the
10 Prosecution announced that it would file a motion for leave to amend the
11 indictment in the near future and requested the Trial Chamber to suspend
12 its decision on the merits of the Defence motion until the amended
13 indictment is filed.
14 The Trial Chamber, therefore, decided not to take any decision
15 before being seized with the Prosecution's motion for leave to amend the
17 On 23 October 2003, the Prosecution filed a motion for leave to
18 amend the indictment and the supporting material concerning proposed
19 amended indictment.
20 By the order issued on 12 January 2004, the Trial Chamber granted
21 leave to the Prosecution to amend the indictment and declared that the
22 Defence motion on the form of the indictment moot. The Defence was
23 granted, in accordance with the understanding reached at the Status
24 Conference held on 3 November 2003, 45 days from disclosure of the
25 supporting material concerning the amended indictment in which to file a
1 preliminary motion on the form of the amended indictment pursuant to Rule
2 72(A)(2) of the Rules.
3 The amended indictment which is the subject of the hearing today
4 was filed by the Prosecution on 14 January 2004.
5 On 20 January 2004, the Prosecution informed the Trial Chamber
6 that supporting material concerning the amended indictment has been
7 provided to the Defence on 15 January 2004.
8 At this stage, I would like to ask Mr. Rajic: Mr. Rajic, can you
9 hear the proceedings in a language that you understand?
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I can, Your Honour.
11 JUDGE LIU: Have you received the amended indictment against you
12 in a language you understand?
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I have.
14 JUDGE LIU: Did you have a chance to discuss it with your counsel?
15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.
16 JUDGE LIU: Did your counsel explain to you in detail the contents
17 of that indictment?
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.
19 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. You may sit down.
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
21 JUDGE LIU: Pursuant to Rule 62(3) of the Rules of Procedure and
22 Evidence, Mr. Rajic is called upon to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty
23 on each count of the new indictment. He may do so either today or within
24 30 days from this further appearance. If he fails to enter a plea within
25 the time limit, the Trial Chamber shall enter a plea of not guilty on his
2 Mr. Rajic, are you prepared to enter your plea today?
3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I am.
4 JUDGE LIU: As you have read the amended indictment and discussed
5 it with your counsel, do you wish the indictment to be read out, which is
6 your right, or do you waive this right?
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I waive the right. There's no need
8 for the indictment to be read out.
9 THE INTERPRETER: Could the microphones please be adjusted. Thank
11 JUDGE LIU: So my suggestion is that I will now repeat the charges
12 brought against you, and I will then ask you whether you plead guilty or
13 not guilty to the specific charge. Since the initial indictment has been
14 replaced by the amended indictment, I will ask you to enter pleas with
15 regard to all charges contained in the new indictment. Your answer in
16 each case may be guilty or not guilty as the case may be. Do you
17 understand that, Mr. Rajic?
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I do understand that.
19 JUDGE LIU: Are you ready to plea at this moment?
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I'm ready.
21 JUDGE LIU: Yes. Let's proceed.
22 Count 1 charges you with wilful killing, a grave breach of the
23 Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under Article 2(a), 7(1) and 7(3)
24 of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I plead not guilty.
1 JUDGE LIU: Count 2 charges you with murder, a violation of the
2 laws or customs of war, as recognised by Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva
3 Conventions, punishable under Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of
4 the Tribunal. How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
6 JUDGE LIU: Count 3 charges you with inhuman treatment (including
7 sexual assault), a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 1949,
8 punishable under Articles 2(b), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the
9 Tribunal. How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
11 JUDGE LIU: Count 4 charges you with outrages upon personal
12 dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment (including
13 sexual assault), a violation of the laws or customs of war as recognised
14 by Article 3(1)(c) of the Geneva Conventions, punishable under Articles 3,
15 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead; guilty or
16 not guilty?
17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
18 JUDGE LIU: Count 5 charges you with unlawful confinement of a
19 civilian, a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable
20 under Articles 2(g), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do
21 you plead; guilty or not guilty?
22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
23 JUDGE LIU: Count 6 charges you with cruel treatment, a violation
24 of the laws or customs of war, as recognised by Article 3(1)(a) of the
25 Geneva Conventions, punishable under Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the
1 Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
3 JUDGE LIU: Count 7 charges you with appropriation of property, a
4 grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under Articles
5 2(d), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead;
6 guilty or not guilty?
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
8 JUDGE LIU: Count 8 charges you with plunder of public or private
9 property, a violation of the laws or customs of war, punishable under
10 Article 3(e), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you
11 plead; guilty or not guilty?
12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
13 JUDGE LIU: Count 9 charges you with extensive destruction not
14 justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly, a
15 grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under Articles
16 2(d), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead;
17 guilty or not guilty?
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
19 JUDGE LIU: Count 10 charges you with wanton destruction of a city
20 or devastation not justified by military necessity, a violation of the
21 laws or customs of war, punishable under Articles 3(b), Article 7(1) and
22 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead; guilty or not
24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
25 JUDGE LIU: Thank you, sir. You may sit down, please.
1 May the registrar please take note that Mr. Rajic has pleaded not
2 guilty to all counts of the new indictment. And the registrar will be
3 instructed to fix a date for trial when appropriate.
4 At this stage, are there any matters that the Prosecution wishes
5 to raise?
6 MR. SCOTT: May it please the Court. Just as a matter of record,
7 Mr. President, as you've already mentioned, the supporting material did --
8 was sent is out to counsel on the 15th of January, and I believe that all
9 should be in good order. I've not had any indication from counsel that
10 there's been any problems with that material. I do have today, and will
11 hand to counsel today -- there were four translations that were missing in
12 -- from English into B/C/S and were not available at the time in that
13 binder -- or bundle, I should say, on the 15th, but I have those today,
14 and I think that will be -- complete all the supporting material. And I
15 suppose, Your Honour, that the next order of business would be
16 recalendaring any motions on the amended indictment.
17 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
18 MR. SCOTT: Thank you.
19 JUDGE LIU: Are there any matters that Defence counsel would like
20 to raise at this stage?
21 MR. OLUJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. I should like to
22 refer to the observation made by my learned colleague with respect to the
23 supporting material received. The OTP has been very considerate and has
24 sent us supporting material upon which it bases its case, Prosecution
25 case. To the present day, we received eight large bundles with about 5 to
1 10.000 pieces of paper to them, and today my learned colleague says that
2 he will be handing over some more supporting material today, which I'll be
3 happy to receive.
4 However, I should like to address the Chamber because we have a
5 very great problem, and the problem is with respect to signature. The
6 archives of the secret service of the Republic of Croatia has distributed
7 all the documentation into 10.126 boxes, or registry boxes, and in those
8 boxes there are 10 to 20 million papers, Your Honours. In other words,
9 the OTP, with the material that it has given us, has not told us the
10 addressees and the receivers, although on some of the stickers that does
11 exist. But they haven't told us how they arrived at those materials, how
12 they came by them. And the labels are not the kind that we need to have
13 for us to go to the Croatian state archives and be able to control the
14 source and authenticity of the documents themselves. In other words, I
15 have to check out some of the documents given to me by the OTP.
16 So I should like to ask the OTP, in a reasonable period of time
17 necessary to get that done, to give us the correct designations so that we
18 could check them out, as I have said. That is what I wanted to bring to
19 the Court's attention this afternoon. Thank you.
20 JUDGE LIU: Well, I'm surprised to hear that there is such a huge
21 amount of documents available from the security service of the Republic of
22 Croatia. Maybe, Mr. Scott, you could make some clarification on this
24 MR. SCOTT: Sorry, Your Honour, this microphone is in a bad place.
25 It's all right now. Thanks.
1 Mr. President, I have to say, and it's not really a complaint,
2 counsel has been completely courteous up to the present time, and I think
3 we've had professional dealings with each other, and so this is not in the
4 form of a complaint, but this is the first I've heard of these concerns.
5 I would be happy to discuss them with counsel and perhaps what would be
6 most helpful would be if counsel could transmit to us a letter indicating
7 his concerns with a listing of the documents that he's concerned about. I
8 just simply don't know which documents he's referring to.
9 I would be surprised, as Your Honour apparently is, that there is
10 that volume, but I don't -- it's possible. I just simply don't have the
11 information right now to make a further response. But I would be happy to
12 receive a letter from counsel indicating his concerns and listing the
13 documents. Thank you.
14 JUDGE LIU: Well, is it possible, after this sitting, the parties
15 will meet with each other to discuss this matter?
16 MR. SCOTT: I'm happy to talk to counsel and see if we can find a
17 time while he is still in The Hague. I apologise, Your Honour, I'm on a
18 very tight schedule this afternoon on another matter, so today it might
19 not be possible but it may be possible to meet with him tomorrow.
20 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. Is there anything else, Mr. Olujic?
21 MR. OLUJIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, nothing else. I
22 have just heard that my learned colleague has other business to attend to
23 today and hasn't got time for a meeting, but if there is goodwill on the
24 part of the OTP, I will set all I have said out in writing
25 chronologically, and I hope that the misunderstanding with respect to
1 establishing the truth before this Court of law will be able to be
2 resolved on a collegial basis, without any problems.
3 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. Are there any other matters that
4 Mr. Rajic would like to raise to this Bench?
5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.
6 JUDGE LIU: How about the conditions in the Detention Unit? Do
7 you have anything to complain?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No.
9 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. You may sit down.
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
11 JUDGE LIU: Well, I think that's all for this hearing if there's
12 nothing else that the parties would like to bring to the attention of this
13 Bench. The hearing is adjourned.
14 --- Whereupon the Further Appearance adjourned
15 at 3.24 p.m.