Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 838

1 Monday, 27 November 2006

2 [The accused is not present in the courtroom]

3 [Open session]

4 --- Upon commencing at 11.21 a.m.

5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone.

6 Mr. Registrar, would you please call the case.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number

8 IT-03-67-T, the Prosecutor versus Vojislav Seselj.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.

10 May I have the appearances for the Prosecution first.

11 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Thank you, Your Honour. For the Prosecution,

12 Mr. Dan Saxon, Ms. Melissa Pack. My name is Hildegard Uertz-Retzlaff, and

13 with us is Ana Katalinic, our case manager.

14 JUDGE ORIE: For the Defence.

15 MR. HOOPER: As assigned counsel, David Hooper, with Dr. Andreas

16 O'Shea, assisted by Lea Kulinowski, who is our case manager.

17 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Hooper.

18 The accused is not present. During a Pre-Trial Conference held

19 this morning, this Chamber was informed about why he is not present. The

20 Chamber has, on its mind, to proceed even where the accused is absent.

21 Before, however, finally deciding to do so, if any of the parties would

22 like to make any submissions on this matter, they are invited to do so.

23 Madam Uertz-Retzlaff.

24 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, thank you, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Hooper.

Page 839

1 [Defence counsel confer]

2 MR. HOOPER: This morning, we understand that the Prosecution are

3 due to present their opening of the case, and that is a matter which Dr.

4 Seselj can see from the transcript or video or audio that he would

5 doubtless be provided with, and we take no objection at all in those

6 circumstances.

7 We do raise concerns as to the medical health of Dr. Seselj. He's

8 no longer a young man. We understand that he has in the past, as a result

9 of activities in Serbia or former Yugoslavia, suffered periods of

10 imprisonment where he has, in fact, engaged in hunger strikes, and some of

11 them have gone on for quite a long time. He's no longer that young man.

12 We are concerned about his health. We understand that he is being seen by

13 a Dr. Falke at the Detention Unit. We would be particularly concerned

14 that, for example, his weight loss is something that is attended to or has

15 regard -- has regard to, and is something which you, the Judges, are

16 provided with some information. Because my understanding is that in a

17 hunger strike or an absence of food, as the Registry, we heard, would

18 nominate it, that in such circumstances, one of the key factors is loss of

19 weight and the attended risks to health that poses.

20 I don't know what regime is presently in place for the Chamber to

21 be made aware of Dr. Seselj's position. We understand that there was

22 certainly a daily report provided to the Registry, and we assume that

23 comes to you, the Judges.

24 Those are all my submissions.

25 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Hooper. I do understand that you take

Page 840

1 no objection to the Chamber proceeding in the absence of the accused, at

2 least for today, as you said. I'll later say a few words about the other

3 submissions you've made -- you made.

4 Before delivering a decision of the Chamber to proceed in the

5 absence of the accused, I do understand that the Prosecution will start

6 giving its opening statement. I'm not certain, Mr. Hooper, about where

7 Mr. Seselj earlier expressed that he would like to postpone his opening

8 statement until a later stage and only to make an unsworn statement,

9 whether that's the course you have in mind as well, which would mean that

10 once we had heard the opening statement by the Prosecution, that we'd

11 then, at least if Mr. Seselj would be present in court tomorrow, that we'd

12 then hear an unsworn statement from him, unless you, now as assigned

13 counsel, would like to make an opening statement or whether you'd follow

14 the earlier course decided by Mr. Seselj to delay an opening statement.

15 MR. HOOPER: Of course, the Defence have the option of making an

16 opening statement now or deferring it just before the defence case, under

17 the Rules.


19 MR. HOOPER: I wouldn't at this stage assume, even if I was in a

20 position to do so, which I'm not, to make an opening statement. I

21 wouldn't make that opening statement now because to do so would intrude, I

22 think, over much into Dr. Seselj's position, and his right to make such an

23 opening statement at an appropriate time can be preserved in that way.

24 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I would say that Mr. Seselj, of course, under

25 the supervision of the Chamber, can make an unsworn statement at the

Page 841

1 beginning, but his right to make an opening statement, I would say the

2 Defence has a right to make an opening statement, because, since this

3 morning, Mr. Seselj is not in a position anymore to address directly this

4 Chamber. Of course, if he wants to participate in it, he can ask, through

5 you, for permission to do so.

6 So for the time being, the Chamber could expect that after the

7 opening statement of the Prosecution, that either we hear an unsworn

8 statement of Mr. Seselj, or if he doesn't appear and if he doesn't want to

9 make such an unsworn statement, that we'd then proceed and start hearing

10 evidence early December.

11 MR. HOOPER: Yes. Our position at the moment is, as the Chamber,

12 I'm sure, is aware, that there's been no contact, absolutely no contact

13 between ourselves and Dr. Seselj, and I see no imminent change in that

14 position. We will seek to make contact with him this afternoon. I

15 understand that it's anticipated that the Prosecution opening may not

16 conclude today. I don't know if I'm correct about that. But we'll see in

17 any event. But if that's the case, then we will obviously go over until

18 tomorrow, where, in any event, court time is allocated, and perhaps we can

19 generally re-address the position, not that I feel for a moment that I'd

20 be in a position to make an opening statement, but we can re-address the

21 position tomorrow --


23 MR. HOOPER: -- perhaps in the light of our inquiries today. And

24 obviously Dr. Seselj will be invited, if there is a hearing again

25 tomorrow, to attend this trial.

Page 842

1 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, of course.

2 MR. HOOPER: And we'll see if he takes that opportunity to do so.

3 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. The Chamber can only confirm that Mr. Seselj,

4 of course, is not only entitled, but that the Chamber even would prefer

5 him to be present at trial, because that would better serve the interests

6 of justice.

7 That being clarified, I informed the parties that if we might run

8 out of time today, of course, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, then you'll be in a

9 position to continue tomorrow. Tomorrow we have not the full morning

10 session available to ourselves. We have to stop a bit earlier, after

11 the -- before the second break, approximately. If need be, since Mr.

12 Seselj has been attributed a certain amount of time as well, we would then

13 continue Friday, in the afternoon, not Wednesday, not Thursday.

14 Then I'll deliver the decision of this Chamber to proceed in the

15 absence of the accused.

16 The Chamber establishes that the accused is aware of this trial to

17 start. The accused has put forward claims, although not by himself

18 directly addressing this Chamber, claims including that the Chamber

19 changes certain decisions it previously took. Among these decisions,

20 there are some for which a legal avenue to challenge them was or still is

21 open to the accused. Apparently, the accused wants to put pressure to

22 have his claims honoured by his refusal to take any food offered by the

23 United Nations Detention Unit, which has resulted in, as the Chamber

24 understands, a deterioration of his health.

25 The absence of the accused is thus caused by, if not a deliberate

Page 843

1 decision not to appear, by a self-induced weak physical condition and

2 cannot be accepted by this Chamber as a reason to postpone the start of

3 this trial.

4 In addition to this decision, the Chamber regrets that the accused

5 is not present at the start of this trial, as I said before. The Chamber

6 further expresses its concerns about consequences of the accused's

7 decision to refuse to take food provided by the UNDU and not to take his

8 medication, consequences unfavourable to his physical condition.

9 Finally, the Chamber encourages the accused to choose legal

10 avenues if he seeks to challenge any decision this Trial Chamber takes or

11 has taken.

12 In response to one of your questions, Mr. Hooper, the Chamber has

13 invited the Registrar to keep the Chamber, at regular intervals, to keep

14 acquainted with any development in relation to the physical condition of

15 the accused. If there's any need to further discuss that in this

16 courtroom, we'll hear either from you or from the Prosecution or take the

17 initiative ourselves. The Chamber stresses, however, that the first

18 responsible authority for medical care to be provided to those who are

19 detained in the Detention Unit is the Registrar of this Tribunal.

20 Then, having dealt with these preliminary matters, Madam

21 Uertz-Retzlaff, I'd like to invite you to make the opening statement on

22 behalf of the Prosecution.

23 [Prosecution Opening Statement]

24 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Thank you, Your Honour.

25 Your Honours, this case has its origin in the process of the

Page 844

1 disintegration of the former Yugoslavia and the emergence of new

2 independent states, among them Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.

3 It is a case about Serb leaders, among them the accused Vojislav

4 Seselj, in Serbia and Montenegro, as well as in Croatia and Bosnia and

5 Herzegovina, who resisted this process and insisted that their vision of a

6 state for all Serbs, or a new Yugoslavia, or, as the accused said, a

7 Greater Serbia, must prevail no matter what the cost. As it became

8 increasingly less likely that they would achieve their objectives by

9 negotiations, these leaders resorted to the politics of violence, often

10 invoking old historical grudges and wrongs to instil fear and hatred in

11 their people and incite them to violence against their neighbours. Their

12 ethnocentric politics became the politics of separation where the

13 suffering of the enemies, namely, the Croat and the Muslim populations, as

14 well as other non-Serbs, was viewed as a harsh but necessary cost of

15 achieving their goal of a new Serbian state. The events themselves were

16 notorious and the term "ethnic cleansing" came into common use.

17 Let me quote from Exhibit 429, a report of the Special Rapporteur

18 of the UN Commission on Human Rights, dated 27 October, 1992. Your

19 Honour, my colleague, Ms. Katalinic, will always show you the exhibits I

20 talk about on the screen.

21 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. We have no exhibits yet. I take it we have,

22 until now, ERN numbers. Whenever you introduce -- at least that's my

23 understanding, but I'm new in e-court as well. But as soon as you

24 introduce any document, that it will be given an identifying number later

25 to become an exhibit number once the exhibit has been admitted.

Page 845

1 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honour, today we have no e-court.

2 Today, we actually go with Sanction, so you would have to press, actually,

3 which button? ELMO, the ELMO button.

4 JUDGE ORIE: And I was under the misapprehension that we would

5 start immediately in e-court, but we'll start only on the second day.

6 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: So if you press the ELMO ...

7 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

8 JUDGE ORIE: I had some practical problems, but they are resolved

9 now.

10 Mr. Hooper.

11 MR. HOOPER: Sorry to interfere. It may have been a matter I

12 should have raised right at the outset, but with Dr. Seselj not being

13 here, my understanding is that there are facilities, if he wishes to avail

14 himself of them, to follow the proceedings today. I don't know if that

15 extends to exhibits. I understand there's a videostream which can be

16 accessed from a distance. I don't know ...

17 JUDGE ORIE: What was offered to Mr. Seselj, as far as I remember,

18 is that where he earlier received videos of the proceedings, that at least

19 video coverage of the proceedings, which would include everything that's

20 shown on the ELMO, is made available to him. That does not necessarily

21 mean that he can always keep them under his own control, and this is

22 raised by some security concerns envisaged by the Registrar. But at least

23 what now appears on our screens is accessible to Mr. Seselj as well.

24 MR. HOOPER: Thank you, Mr. President.

25 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff.

Page 846

1 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: You see on your screens the report of the

2 Special Rapporteur of the UN Commission on Human Rights, dated the 27th

3 October, 1992. In paragraph 6, he states that "the principal objective of

4 the military conflict in Bosnia and Herzegovina is the establishment of

5 ethnically homogeneous regions. Ethnic cleansing does not appear to be

6 the consequence of the war, but rather the goal. This goal, to a large

7 extent, has already been achieved through killings, beatings, rape,

8 destruction of houses and threats."

9 This part of the report refers to Bosnia and Herzegovina; however,

10 in the same report, in paragraph 17, the unbearable living conditions in

11 Sarajevo are mentioned, a mass grave in Vukovar is mentioned in paragraph

12 18, and ethnic cleansing of non-Serbs in Vojvodina at paragraph 22 of that

13 same report. I will come to these events later.

14 Vojislav Seselj, along with others, pursued the goal of a new

15 homogeneous Serbian state through a massive state-sponsored persecution

16 campaign in parts of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and in Serbia

17 itself, including killing, detention, deportation or forcible transfer,

18 plunder, destruction of religious sites, and razing of entire villages and

19 settlements.

20 The accused in this case, Vojislav Seselj, was and is a

21 politician, a well-educated, a professor, a shrewd and calculating man, an

22 extreme Serb nationalist, a master of political manipulation masked with

23 patriotic rhetoric.

24 He said about himself the following during his testimony in the

25 Milosevic case, and I refer here to our Exhibit 2828, at the session of

Page 847

1 the 31st August, 2005. He said: "There is no greater scandalmonger in

2 Serbian political life than me over the past 15 years. When I needed this

3 kind of scandal out of political interests, I was the one who could do

4 that the most skillfully." You'll find that at T43500.

5 He also admitted during the cross-examination in that case that he

6 would resort to untruths when waging a political propaganda war. You'll

7 find that at page 43807 and 43443.

8 He even admitted that many of his statements during the events

9 relevant to the indictment may have resembled warmongering, and you'll

10 find that quote at 43385 of the transcript of the Milosevic case.

11 Let me show you how Vojislav Seselj often presented himself during

12 the events. You see him here wearing a Serbian hat with a kokarda and a

13 rifle. This is Exhibit 632.

14 During the events relevant to the indictment, the accused was the

15 president of the Serbian Radical Party, the SRS. He was a charismatic

16 face of an ultra-nationalist policy that promoted a homogeneous Greater

17 Serbia, with its western borders along the infamous

18 Karlobag-Ogulin-Karlovac-Virovitica line.

19 In addition, Vojislav Seselj was the head of the Serbian Chetnik

20 Movement, the SCP, a movement that, according to the statute of the SRS

21 party, was a collective member of this party and became the military wing

22 of the SRS during the conflict. In fact, one can call it the party army.

23 Seselj called himself in an order, that you see here on your screen, order

24 124 of the 13th May 1993, he calls himself "the only Serbian Chetnik

25 Vojvoda directly engaged in the ongoing liberation movement of the Serbian

Page 848

1 people, following in the tradition of the Serbian Chetniks."

2 On the last page of that same document, he signs as the President

3 of the Central Homeland Administration of the Serbian Chetnik Movement,

4 the highest organ of the movement. That's Exhibit 2015.

5 The SRS/SCP volunteers, in fact, considered him to be their

6 commander.

7 In this case, you will hear evidence from witnesses and see

8 documents about the various individuals and organs of the SRS and the SCP,

9 both in Belgrade and in the regions, and how they took part in the events.

10 I will address some of these structures and individuals when speaking

11 about specific locations.

12 At this point just this, the evidence will show that despite the

13 organs that were set up in the SRS party and the SCP movement, there was

14 only one leader of both and that was Vojislav Seselj. The accused would

15 be informed of the smallest details of these organs -- by these organs,

16 and only he would make the decisions. He was an autocrat by nature and

17 made decisions independently. When communicating with persons from the

18 party or the movement, he would always do so in raised voice, making it

19 obvious that what he was proposing had to be executed no matter what.

20 In this case, the Prosecution will prove that together with others

21 Vojislav Seselj implemented policies to expel non-Serbs from territories

22 claimed to be Serbian lands. The accused not only promoted the expulsion

23 of non-Serbs from specific targeted territories and incited his audience

24 to do so, in addition, he recruited and indoctrinated volunteers and set

25 up a party army that pursued this course brutally. Through his extreme

Page 849

1 rhetorics, the accused attracted many young men who volunteered and became

2 part of the thousands of SRS volunteers who participated in the conflict

3 in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, many of them undisciplined, violent

4 and even criminal.

5 The Prosecution will lead evidence, both in writing and orally,

6 showing how the radical speeches of the accused affected not only

7 volunteers associated with the SRS or the SCP, but also other volunteers,

8 reservists, regular soldiers of the JNA and the VJ, and local Serbs,

9 instilling in them fear and hatred.

10 In addition, we will hear that the radical speeches had also a

11 strong immediate effect on the non-Serbs who listened to them. Hearing

12 the accused and his threats was enough to many of the non-Serbs to leave

13 their homes, fearing for their lives. My colleague, Mr. Saxon, will

14 address these aspects of the accused's criminal conduct in more details

15 later on.

16 However, this case is not only about the accused's words. The

17 accused and his associates in the SRS and the SCP party -- SCP movement

18 took part in the financing, supply, transfer, and direction of the actions

19 of the volunteers participating with other Serb forces in the persecution

20 of non-Serbs. In this trial you will hear evidence and receive

21 documentation that despite the subordination of these volunteers under the

22 regular military commanders in the field, the volunteers often stayed

23 together in units commanded by SRS company, detachment or squad leaders

24 who would report back not only to the regular military command on the

25 front lines but also to the accused and his associates in the party

Page 850

1 offices in Belgrade.

2 The criminal charges against Vojislav Seselj in the Redacted

3 Modified Amended Indictment are three counts of crimes against humanity,

4 those being persecution, deportation and inhumane acts-forcible transfer;

5 and six counts of violations of the laws and customs of war, those being

6 murder, torture, cruel treatment, wanton destruction of villages or

7 devastation, destruction or wilful damage done to institutions dedicated

8 to religion and plunder.

9 The Prosecution alleges that the accused, under Article 7(1) of

10 the Statute, is responsible for the crimes listed because he planned,

11 instigated, ordered, committed or otherwise aided and abetted their

12 planning, preparation or execution.

13 As far as the term "committed" is used, the Prosecution alleges

14 that the accused physically committed the crimes of persecution, that's

15 count 1, by direct and public incitement and denigration with respect to

16 his speeches in Vukovar, Mali Zvornik, and Hrtkovci; and also counts 10

17 and 11, deportation and forcible transfer, with respect to his speech in

18 Hrtkovci.

19 In addition, when using the term "committed," the Prosecution

20 refers to his participation in a joint criminal enterprise, the objective

21 of which was the permanent forcible removal of Croat, Muslims and other

22 non-Serbs from large areas of Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina claimed

23 to be Serbian through the commission of crimes.

24 The Prosecution will present evidence that the specific crimes

25 identified in the indictment were within the objective of the joint

Page 851

1 criminal enterprise. The Prosecution's position is that the crimes of

2 deportation and forcible transfer constituted the JCE's common objective

3 from the very start. Whether the other crimes, such as murder, detention,

4 torture, beatings, sexual assaults and destructions of property, were

5 originally -- were original to the objective of the JCE from the very

6 start or added later due to the circumstances on the ground is irrelevant.

7 The Prosecution will prove that these crimes were adopted by the JCE

8 members during the events and incorporated into the criminal plan. The

9 evidence will show that the common objective of the JCE never changed, but

10 that the implementation of this common objective evolved, and as a matter

11 of fact, all the crimes charged in the indictment became part of the

12 criminal means through which the JCE pursued its goal throughout the

13 period relevant to the indictment.

14 The indictment alleges, alternatively, that the crimes enumerated

15 in some of the counts of the indictment were the natural and foreseeable

16 consequences of the execution of the JCE and that Vojislav Seselj was

17 fully aware of the horrific consequences that the implementation of the

18 objective of the JCE would bring to the non-Serb population in the

19 targeted areas.

20 To this end, let me quote from an interview he gave on the 24th of

21 May, 1991, and I refer here to Exhibit 569. He said, after returning from

22 Bosnia and Herzegovina, where he inter alia had met Radovan Karadzic, the

23 following:

24 "We have already deployed several Chetniks groups in Zagreb and

25 other towns across Croatia, which are trained in sabotage and terrorist

Page 852

1 activities. If Serbian civilians start to be massacred, the Chetniks will

2 strike at Zagreb and other concentrations of Croats, using their full

3 strength. You know, when one retaliates, revenge is blind. There would

4 be innocent victims, but what can you do. Let the Croats think about that

5 first. We shall not strike first, but if they should strike, we are not

6 even going to bother where our blows land. Also, unless the army disarms

7 the Ustashas immediately, there will be a lot of blood."

8 "And in a Radio B-92 interview, on the 30th of September, 1993,"

9 and I refer here to Exhibit 772, "a listener asks whether Seselj ever

10 worries about the non-Serbian population that is innocent and suffering

11 due to his views, and Seselj answers: 'Why would I have a guilty

12 conscience? So many innocent Serbs suffered in this war, and I need to

13 worry about those who belong to another enemy people, if possibly there

14 was an innocent one among them that suffered. You know, in war one

15 experiences great turmoil, great troubles, and I, in war, above all, worry

16 about those who belong to my own people.'"

17 Vojislav Seselj participated in the joint criminal enterprise

18 together with all the individuals and groups listed in paragraph 8 of the

19 indictment. It was a vast JCE, including a large group of persons. There

20 was a core group of JCE members in Belgrade, including politicians, such

21 as the accused and Slobodan Milosevic, members of the SFRY Presidency,

22 high-ranking officials of the JNA and the VJ and the Serbian MUP. There

23 were also core groups in specific regions, such as in the SAO Krajina in

24 Croatia, including Milan Martic and Milan Babic, who pled guilty in this

25 Tribunal; and in the SAO Eastern Slavonia, you have the core group Baranja

Page 853

1 and Western Srem - sorry - you have the core group including Goran Hadzic,

2 Radovan Stojicic, better known by his nickname Badza, and in Bosnia and

3 Herzegovina, you had the core group, including Radovan Karadzic, Momcilo

4 Krajisnik, and Biljana Plavsic, who also pled guilty here in this

5 Tribunal.

6 There were also local components of the JCE in the municipalities,

7 including Zeljko Raznjatovic, better known as Arkan, and the so-called

8 Vojvodas, the latter all close associates of the accused. I will give

9 more details regarding these local components of the JCE later when I

10 address the regions.

11 The Prosecution is not in a position, nor is it necessary in this

12 case, to identify all the members of the JCE by name. What the evidence

13 will show is that the accused was a member in it and sufficiently

14 connected and concerned with persons who committed the crimes in pursuit

15 of the common objective or who engaged other perpetrators to do so.

16 By now, the history of the disintegration of the former Yugoslavia

17 is well known, and I do not want to spend much time on this. I also do

18 not want to address the details of the implementation of the structures of

19 the JCE in the targeted regions. Insofar, I refer to the Prosecution's

20 brief where all the details are laid out.

21 Instead, I will review with you the goals of the JCE as they

22 relate to certain territories, in particular, the goals of this accused

23 and how they evolved due to major political events.

24 Vojislav Seselj left no doubt about what his goal was at the

25 beginning of the conflict. It was a homogeneous Greater Serbia. We will

Page 854

1 hear and see a lot of evidence to this effect. Seselj himself called this

2 idea of Greater Serbia the raison d'etre of the SRS till the present day,

3 and I refer here to his testimony in the Milosevic case, at page 42887.

4 The territory of Greater Serbia is described by the accused in

5 many speeches, of which I will only give one, and it's the speech of the

6 4th of August, 1990, and it's Exhibit 776. And I quote:

7 "But, we are warning them that never, at any cost, will we allow

8 this Croatian state to be established covering the Serbian population. We

9 will never allow any Serbian territory, any Serbian settlement, destroyed

10 church or torched village, any Serbian mass grave, camp, pit,

11 slaughterhouse, to find itself beyond the borders of the Serbian state."

12 And a bit later, he said, during that same speech:

13 "We always proceed from the Croatian people being the one that

14 marked the borders of the Serbian state. Marking them with Serbian mass

15 graves."

16 And he further said, referring to Tudjman's election victory in

17 Croatia, he said the following:

18 "That victory has shown that the vast majority of the Croatian

19 people are with the Ustasha movement, just as the Croats had massively

20 welcomed and supported Pavelica's regime in WWII. We have no illusions

21 regarding the Croatian national nature, we have no illusions regarding

22 their ultimate goals. Therefore, we won't even negotiate with them. For

23 these negotiations and rotten compromises have always been at the expense

24 of the Serbian national interests. We, regarding our territories and

25 regarding our graves, will not negotiate with anyone in this wide world."

Page 855

1 Let me show you now the platform of the Serbian Chetnik Movement,

2 and it's Exhibit 2018. In the programme of the Serbian Chetnik Movement

3 in 1990, among the goals we find under (i), the restoration of a free,

4 independent and democratic Serbian state in the Balkans which will include

5 all Serbian people and all Serbian territories, including the Republic of

6 Serbia, Serbian Macedonia, Serbian Montenegro, Serbian Bosnia, Serbian

7 Herzegovina, Serbian Dubrovnik, Serbian Lika, Serbian Kordun, Serbian

8 Banija, Serbian Slavonia, and Serbian Baranja.

9 An almost identical first goal is formulated in the SRS Manifesto

10 of February 1991. You find it here in the -- it's Exhibit 2019, and you

11 find it here in -- as the first goal, and you find actually it's

12 absolutely the same text except for one change. Added in the list of

13 territories is also now "Serbian Dalmatia," right after Dubrovnik, you

14 find Serbian Dalmatia.

15 JUDGE ORIE: If you'd allow me to interfere for one second. You

16 started reading a portion of it, and then you left out two or three lines

17 and then you read the last couple of lines. Perhaps it would be good if

18 you take several portions of a text you read, Mr. Seselj, if he would

19 review the video, could not follow the English, that you make clear that

20 these are separate portions and that it's not one portion you're reading,

21 so to say I leave out a couple of lines, I continue them. Best would be

22 to read all of it so that the context is not lost if Mr. Seselj listens to

23 the video.

24 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honour, are you referring to the speech

25 that he gave or rather to the --

Page 856

1 JUDGE ORIE: No, to the -- you said the goals we find number 1,

2 and then the restoration of a free, independent, and democratic Serbian

3 state, and then you left out a couple of lines and then you -- and that's

4 not clear, when reading or listening to you, that you did not read two

5 lines "imposed upon us," et cetera.


7 JUDGE ORIE: Please keep that in mind.

8 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: I will do that, yes.

9 Vojislav Seselj, in his many speeches, referred to the western

10 borders of the Serbian state as the Karlobag-Ogulin-Karlovac-Virovitica

11 line. And you see here a map, and it's Exhibit 1891, and you see the

12 black line. That's actually a line that connects these places that I just

13 mentioned, and it shows actually the territory that the accused had in

14 mind when he was speaking about Greater Serbia with these western borders.

15 The accused and his associates did not only claim territory in

16 which Serbs constituted the majority population, but also areas such as

17 Dubrovnik and other locations in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina where

18 Serbs were in a minority. To this end, the Serb suffering during the

19 Second World War was utilised by the accused and others not only to instil

20 fear in the Serb people, but also to revoke a birthright to certain

21 so-called historical lands.

22 The accused himself, during the testimony in the Milosevic case,

23 and I refer here to transcript 437 -- 43275, said the following:

24 "The SRS made a geographical map of Greater Serbia, and from that

25 map, which we published countless times on the cover page of the colour

Page 857

1 back side of our magazine, one can say that the western borders of the

2 Greater Serbia is on the Karlobag-Ogulin-Virovitica line. That does not

3 contain only territories where Serbs are in the majority. It contains

4 also many territories where Croats, Macedonians and Muslims are majority

5 populations."

6 Not accidentally is the map with the

7 Karlobag-Ogulin-Karlovac-Virovitica line very similar to the territories

8 of the old Serbian Chetnik -- that the old Serbian Chetnik Movement

9 pursued before during the First and the Second World War. And you can see

10 here a map of Greater Serbia that our technical people actually put into

11 the regular time smack of the Balkans, and you can see that it is

12 basically the same that was published on the back side of the magazine of

13 the party organ, Velika Srbija. And here, this map will later be Exhibit

14 2004.

15 The accused and his followers saw themselves as successors of this

16 old Serbian Nationalist Movement. In relation to the volunteers of the

17 SRS, a document, "Basic Military Organs of the Serbian Radical Party

18 Volunteers," you'll see here, adopted by the SRS Main Board in June 1991.

19 That's Exhibit 1261. And I refer here only to paragraph 3, where it says:

20 "The volunteers of the Serbian Radical Party are continuing the

21 honourable patriotic traditions of the volunteers and Chetniks of the

22 Serbian liberation rebellions, uprisings and wars until the end of 1918;

23 Chetnik organisation 1902-1918; and Serbian Chetniks in World War II ..."

24 This text, of course, continues.

25 The Prosecution will present evidence, including expert testimony,

Page 858

1 on what this old nationalist movement stood for, namely, an aggressive and

2 violent pursuit of a homogeneous Serbian state.

3 Other members of the JCE did not use the term "Greater Serbia."

4 Witness evidence will show that Slobodan Milosevic insisted that Serbs

5 remain in one state, and stated that divisions of Yugoslavia into several

6 states which would separate Serbian people and force them to live in

7 separate sovereign states of others would be out of the question.

8 Milosevic officially seemed to have been in favour of the old Yugoslavia

9 during parts of 1991.

10 For the accused Seselj, Federal Yugoslavia was only an interim

11 solution in the struggle for a Greater Serbia.

12 However, by June 1991, Milosevic and the Serbian and Montenegrin

13 members of the SFRY Presidency were pursuing the creation of a new Serbian

14 state and were discussing the redeployment of the JNA along the new

15 Serbian borders of the Yugoslavia. As Borisav Jovic put it in his

16 book, "the last days of the SFRY," it will become Exhibit 1869. He also

17 wrote in this book: "By working to destroy and break up Yugoslavia,

18 Croatia and Bosnia themselves are working to create a Greater Serbia."

19 Let me show another map. I have here a map. That was --

20 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, I'm trying to follow your maps

21 as well. May I draw your attention to the following: You seem to have

22 taken over what I consider, personally, a bad habit by the Prosecution,

23 that is, to use projected maps at the same time as -- if you look at map

24 14 and 15, although you'll see that it's the same area, one is projected

25 and the other is giving a real picture. It makes it completely impossible

Page 859

1 to do any measurement on maps which are projected. Therefore, to the

2 extent possible, could you please provide us with non-projected maps, and

3 just the ones that look from top to bottom and not from a certain angle,

4 which really changes all the dimensions. I hope you understand what I

5 mean.

6 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: I'm not really sure, Your Honour.

7 JUDGE ORIE: If you look at 14 and 15, on 14 you get a real map as

8 you would find it whatever -- the other one, you see all the dimensions

9 are quite different. North/south becomes smaller; east/west becomes

10 larger. That's because of a certain projection technique which is used.

11 In that way, all the maps of Bosnia and Herzegovina start looking

12 different. For example, you'll find the same two maps before that. You

13 also have this projected one of strategic objectives, which makes it very

14 difficult to compare maps.


16 JUDGE ORIE: Perhaps you'd give it some attention, some thought,

17 not to act upon it immediately.

18 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes, thank you, Your Honour, for this remark.

19 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.

20 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: So this is now a map that was published on

21 the 22nd of October, 1991, in the magazine Epoha, and it is Exhibit 2880.

22 This is a map that relates to the targeted territory for the new Serb

23 dominated Yugoslavia pursued at that time, in October 1991, by the Serbian

24 leadership around Slobodan Milosevic.

25 There is Cyrillic text in this, but I can assist you in finding

Page 860

1 your way in this map. If you look at the territory indicated as number 1,

2 that indicates the SAO Krajina. When you look at number 2, that's Western

3 Slavonia. Number 3 is SAO Western Slavonia, Baranja, and Western Srem.

4 Number 4 is Western Herzegovina. Number 5 is the Posavina Corridor.

5 Number 6 is the Dubrovnik Republic. And the curved line on -- at the most

6 western part of the map, that's, again, the line -- the line

7 Karlobag-Ogulin-Karlovac-Virovitica line, and in this Epoha article, it's

8 meant -- this line is called the optimal western borders of Serbian

9 countries. That's, in October, what the plan of the JCE had evolved to.

10 As can be seen from the map that Milosevic territory shows and the

11 previous map of Greater Serbia, it's almost identical; it's, indeed, the

12 same territory.

13 The evidence will further show that the relevant time -- in the

14 relevant time period, the JCE members in the regions in Croatia were fully

15 in line with Slobodan Milosevic, as well as Vojislav Seselj. The evidence

16 will show that the Serbian leaders in the SAOs in Croatia, in

17 collaboration with the JCE members in Belgrade, set up the political,

18 police, and military structures that engaged in a war for territory to

19 create the western borders of the new state. One of those engaged was the

20 accused, and he was personally present in these territories from the

21 beginning to the end. He was present when, on the 25th of July, 1990, at

22 a gathering in Srb, near Knin, Milan Babic and other SDS Krajina leaders

23 established a Serb Assembly and a Serbian National Counsel and passed a

24 declaration on the sovereignty and autonomy of the Serbian nation in

25 Croatia. Vojislav Seselj was present during the first violent clashes in

Page 861

1 Plitvice in the SAO Krajina on 31 March 1991. Seselj's men were involved

2 in the violence in Borovo Selo on the 2nd of May, 1991, in Eastern

3 Slavonia. The accused was present in Vukovar before it fell to the Serb

4 forces and he was also present in Vocin in Western Slavonia. The evidence

5 will show that he was in constant contact with the Croatian Serb

6 leaderships in all the SAOs. The accused even supported Milan Babic by

7 the end of 1991 in his opposition to the Vance plan, but later on

8 Mr. Seselj then bent to the greater power, meaning Slobodan Milosevic.

9 Let me briefly address the military leadership that participated

10 in the JCE. The Prosecution will provide written and witness evidence

11 that the military, namely, the JNA generals and the -- in the Main Staff,

12 at the beginning of the disintegration of the Yugoslavia, were not in

13 favour of a new Serbian state, but rather pursued the continuation of the

14 old Yugoslavia. However, in July 1991, with Slovenia gone, Generals

15 pressured by Milosevic and the Serbian and Montenegrin members of the

16 Presidency, gave up the idea of the unitary Yugoslavia and moved their

17 main forces to the future borders of the new Serb-dominated state along

18 the lines just shown before.

19 When the Serbian and Montenegrin leadership on the 1st of October,

20 1991, took over the SFRY Presidency and thus the Supreme Command of the

21 JNA, the JNA sided openly with the Serbian leadership. In a report of the

22 1st of October, 1991 - and that's Exhibit 3009 - they warned the Croatian

23 government and other organs that they would now retaliate for any Croatian

24 military action.

25 The events of the 1st October 1991 reveal the amount of

Page 862

1 coordination within the JCE; namely, on that same day, not only the

2 Serbian leadership and the JNA leadership took actions, on that same day,

3 the Montenegrin leadership acted in coordination and mobilised their

4 special police unit for the attack on Dubrovnik which started the

5 following day.

6 And you can just -- I invite you to briefly look at the order of

7 the 1st of October. It's Exhibit 3008, in which Momcilo Bulatovic

8 actually mobilised the police for the attack on Dubrovnik. And the SRS in

9 Belgrade acted as well. And here you see their decision, this is a

10 decision of the 1st of October, 1991, from the -- from the SRS Crisis

11 Staff. It's Exhibit 1959. In the minutes of this Crisis Staff meeting,

12 it states: "Pursuant to proposals by Vojvoda V. Seselj and Mr. Ljubisa

13 Petkovic, and in accordance with the current political situation in the

14 country, it was decided to change the name of the SRS Crisis Staff into

15 SRS war staff."

16 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, this is not the second page of

17 the document we saw before which was totally illegible to me. I don't

18 know what you said, 3008, in which Mr. Bulatovic mobilised the police

19 force.


21 JUDGE ORIE: That previous one, this is what I saw. I have no

22 idea what it is.

23 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Oh, Your Honour, I'm sorry. This is actually

24 the order of the 1st of October, 1991, and you see here, under number 1 --

25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, if that could be shown on your screens.

Page 863

1 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes, that's number 1.


3 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: It's mobilisation, and in paragraph 2, you

4 can see --

5 JUDGE ORIE: If you can just give me the time, to see what it is.

6 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Can you go back to 1.

7 JUDGE ORIE: It's 1 and 2 together.

8 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes. I think that's actually the best. You

9 see here, the mobilisation of the special police, and it's in 2, it's

10 referred to the Dubrovnik front.

11 JUDGE ORIE: And then at the bottom we see that it's

12 Mr. Bulatovic.

13 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes, it's Mr. Bulatovic. And the other

14 order, perhaps again, also the other order, if you see it, we can actually

15 make it bigger, the whole -- it's not so difficult to read. It's actually

16 minutes taken by the secretary of the SRS, and you see here, in paragraph

17 1, this reference that there would be now --

18 JUDGE ORIE: That one was read to us, so we're able to follow

19 that. But not the previous one.

20 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Thank you.

21 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.

22 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: The evidence will show that at that time, on

23 the 1st of October, 1991, Vojislav Seselj and his associates in the SRS

24 and SCP already cooperated fully with the JNA and the leaderships in the

25 regions in recruiting, transferring, and engaging volunteers on the front

Page 864

1 lines, in particular, in relation to Vukovar and Dubrovnik.

2 Were the goals of the JCE regarding the Serb territories in

3 Croatia achieved? Unfortunately, yes. We will hear from witnesses,

4 including an expert, about the demographic changes in the SAOs in Croatia

5 that left the claimed areas basically free of non-Serbs, in particular

6 Croats.

7 The western borders along the Karlobag-Ogulin-Karlovac-Virovitica

8 line were not achieved fully given the resistance of the Croatian forces,

9 but they were achieved almost.

10 Seselj himself said on the 6th of March, 1992, in a TV interview

11 in Belgrade, that will be Exhibit 1849 the following:

12 "Well, I am of the opinion that we did not manage to achieve that

13 ideal western border of ours: Karlobag-Ogulin-Karlovac-Virovitica. We

14 did not succeed with Karlobag, but we are somewhere in the vicinity of the

15 former Maslenicki Bridge, and that is several kilometres away from

16 Karlobag. We did not succeed with Ogulin; however, we are close to

17 Ogulin. We did not succeed with Karlovac; however, we are holding the

18 suburbs of Karlovac. We did not succeed with Virovitica, but we are

19 holding the suburbs of Pakrac, one part of Pakrac and parts of Western

20 Slavonia."

21 Let me show you now a map that's the official map of the RSK.

22 It's Exhibit 2829. It's a bit hard to see, but if you follow the brownish

23 lines, you can see, first --

24 JUDGE ORIE: Could you tell us which number this is in the bundle?

25 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: It's 2829 -- oh, in the bundle, I'm sorry.

Page 865

1 It's number 10.

2 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.

3 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: And the translation -- there is quite some

4 text on it, and the translation is 10A.


6 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: You can see here actually outlined the

7 achievements in relation to the SAOs, Eastern Slavonia, Western Slavonia,

8 and the SAO Krajina.


10 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: By the end of 1991, given the military and

11 political situation on the ground, the focus of the JCE shifted to Bosnia

12 and Herzegovina. In a conference organised by the Rump Presidency in

13 Belgrade on the 3rd of January, 1992, with representatives of the

14 leaderships of the SAOs in Croatia, the Bosnian Serbs and members of the

15 SRS as well as other Serb parties, a slightly revised map of targeted

16 areas evolved. And this map was actually published in the magazine Epoha

17 on the 7th of January, 1992, and that will be Exhibit 1879.

18 If you look at the light blue territories, these are actually the

19 territories that at that time were pursued, and you can see that Dubrovnik

20 Republik is gone. The Dubrovnik Republik is no longer light blue. And

21 also Western Slavonia is basically also now dark blue and no more

22 considered to be part of the plan.

23 One point that I would like to point out. You'll find the

24 word "Krajina" several times on the map.

25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Could we zoom in on the screen so that whoever

Page 866

1 wants to watch this by video also has an opportunity to better follow what

2 you're saying.

3 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes. You'll see, actually "Krajina" pointed

4 here. That's here where just the marker is. That's the SAO -- the SAO --

5 the former SAO Krajina that at that time was already evolving into RSK.

6 You'll find on top -- on top you'll find also "Krajina." That's referring

7 to Eastern Slavonia, Baranja and Western Srem, and please do not confuse

8 it with the autonomous region of Krajina. That's in Bosnia. What you can

9 see is the Posavina Corridor, which is called here "SAO Semberija." You

10 can see it here linking the territories within Bosnia and also the

11 territory in Croatia to Serbia.

12 That's all I want to say at this stage. We'll deal with this map

13 during the trial.

14 On the 9th of January, 1992, the Bosnian Serb Assembly proclaimed

15 the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina. In relation to its

16 territories, it was stated that it included "areas where the Serbian

17 people are a minority because of the genocide conducted against it in the

18 Second World War." And that will be Exhibit 3012. Let me remind you that

19 that is the terminology very similar to that used by Seselj when he refers

20 to the Serbia graves as marking the borders of Greater Serbia.

21 The evidence will show that throughout the indictment period,

22 Seselj and the Bosnian Serb leadership pursued basically the same goals in

23 relation to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Seselj had contacts with the Bosnian

24 Serb leaders throughout the indictment period and even supported them in

25 1993 in their opposition to Milosevic regarding the Vance-Owen Plan.

Page 867

1 Here I want to give you one example, and it's Exhibit 2029, a

2 speech that Mr. Seselj gave on the 11th of March, 1993.

3 "We believe that no one has the right to accept the Vance-Owen

4 ultimatum in the name of the Serbian people concerning the internal

5 borders in the territory of the former Bosnia and Herzegovina.

6 Particularly, we believe that no one has the right to give the corridor

7 between Bosnian Krajina and Semberija to the Croats, the Muslims or

8 UNPROFOR, in the same of the Serbian people. The Serbian Radical Party

9 maintains its position that the only just and firm boundary determination

10 in the territory of the former Bosnia and Herzegovina can be at the front

11 lines reached."

12 Over this issue, the accused finally split with Slobodan

13 Milosevic, at least temporarily, and that is why the Prosecution

14 restricted this indictment to the time period between the 1st of August,

15 1991, to September 1993.

16 But let me go back to 1992. On 12 May 1992, during the 16th

17 session of the Serbian Assembly, Radovan Karadzic pronounced the six

18 strategic objectives of the Bosnian Serbs. However, these objectives were

19 not established at that time.

20 In May 1992, they had, in fact, been ruthlessly implemented in

21 several municipalities by forces, including the SRS and SCP volunteers,

22 namely, in Bosanski Samac, Bijeljina, Brcko, and Zvornik.

23 What were these objectives? And I'll show you here Exhibit 74.

24 It's the text of the objectives.

25 First is, establish state borders separating the Serbian people

Page 868

1 from the other two ethnic communities.

2 Second, set up a corridor between Semberija and Krajina.

3 Third, establish a corridor in the Drina river valley, that is,

4 eliminate the Drina as a border separating Serbian states.

5 Four, establish a border at the Una and Neretva rivers.

6 Five, divide the city of Sarajevo into Serbian and Muslim parts

7 and establish effective state authorities in both parts.

8 And six, ensure access to the sea for Republika Srpska.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, I see on what you've just shown

10 us on television, that this was signed by Mr. Krajisnik, President of the

11 Assembly. You earlier said the Serbian Assembly. Could you please always

12 clearly indicate what assembly we're talking about. The Serbian Assembly

13 could be the assembly of the Republic of Serbia, but from what I see, it

14 seems that it might not be the assembly of the Republic of Serbia.

15 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, Your Honour --

16 JUDGE ORIE: Would you please always express yourself very clearly

17 on these matters.

18 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes. The Serbian assembly of course in --

19 the Bosnian Serb Assembly.

20 In that same session, on the 12th of March -- May, 1992, Karadzic

21 also mentioned in relation to the first objective, that it meant

22 the "separation from those who are our enemies and who have used every

23 opportunity, especially in this century, to attack us, and who would

24 continue with this practice if we were to stay together in the same

25 state."

Page 869

1 And in relation to the second goal, he mentioned that "the second

2 strategic goal is a corridor between Semberija and Krajina ... this is of

3 utmost strategic importance for the Serbian people because it integrates

4 the Serbian countries ... the alliance of Serbian states is infeasible if

5 we do not secure this corridor ..."

6 Now, Your Honour, I have now the map that you said we need to

7 reconsider, but I have planned to show it and I can't change it right now.

8 So here is actually indicated on this map the objective -- objectives that

9 Karadzic spoke about. That map is Exhibit 3007. And the Assembly session

10 that I just mentioned is the Assembly, Exhibit 241.

11 And what was in store for the non-Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina

12 is clearly stated by members of the JCE. At a session of the Assembly of

13 Bosnia and Herzegovina, I mean now the official Assembly of Bosnia and

14 Herzegovina, held on the 15th of October, 1991, the Assembly considered

15 inter alia a platform on the position of Bosnia and Herzegovina in the

16 future of Yugoslavia, and Radovan Karadzic said the following, that warned

17 the Muslims if they persisted in pursuing independence:

18 "This is the road that you want Bosnia and Herzegovina to take,

19 the same highway to hell and suffering that Slovenia and Croatia went

20 through. Don't think you won't take Bosnia and Herzegovina to hell and

21 Muslim people to possible extinction."

22 Now let me quote what Seselj put in writing in relation to the

23 non-Serbs, and I have here a document 1261. It's actually from a chapter

24 of his book, "In Sinisa Aksentijevic's Focus, Philippics of Chetnik's

25 Vojvoda" regarding Septa was the headline, "treatment of non-Serbs in the

Page 870

1 process of unification ..." The headline is longer but I just referred to

2 this part. And the accused said the following about the non-Serb

3 population in the new Serb state:

4 "That is inevitable formation of a civilian state, the state of

5 the Serbs equal (loyalty is implicit) citizens, members of other nations,

6 ethnic minorities and groups. If such state is formed, other nations,

7 ethnic minorities and groups should not exceed more than 8% of the total

8 population; they should not exceed the said percentage in any larger

9 settlement, region or administrative unit, and there should be no

10 possibility to change their percentage through birth rate."

11 The text, of course, is much more complex, but I can only quote

12 this for time reasons.

13 Of course, this view made resettlement of huge numbers of

14 non-Serbs necessary. The ethnic division on the ground that Karadzic and

15 Seselj requested meant expulsion of non-Serbs from claimed territories.

16 Even in territories dominated by Serbs, Muslims and Croats settlements had

17 to be uprooted and the non-Serbs driven out in order to ensure a

18 homogeneous territory.

19 And I would like to show you briefly two maps that will be

20 elaborated upon by our expert witness, Dr. Tabeau. The first one is

21 actually a map showing Bosnia-Herzegovina's ethnic minority population

22 roster, and as you can see, it's a patchwork picture in the

23 municipalities. It's based on the census of 1991. And you can, in

24 particular, see the Posavina Corridor, for instance, on the top. It would

25 actually be partly Croat, partly mixed. So it's in quite a mixed

Page 871

1 territory with the populations.

2 And now I show you a later map that also Ms. Tabeau will speak

3 about. You can see here the effect of the conflict where you have

4 basically very special, clearly defined territories along ethnic lines.

5 The Serb forces executing the plan in Croatia and

6 Bosnia-Herzegovina were basically the same in all territories, with some

7 minor variations due to the circumstances on the ground. And also

8 basically the same were the crimes.

9 Our evidence will demonstrate beyond any doubt that the events in

10 the municipalities and the towns and villages were not random or

11 spontaneous acts of a few individuals but were the result of a policy

12 pursued by the accused and others and implemented by forces under their

13 control or influence.

14 Let me now turn to the crimes committed in specific towns and

15 municipalities.

16 At the outset, let me say this: Many cases have been conducted

17 and concluded in this court in which these crimes were addressed in

18 detail. Eyewitnesses to the crimes, mostly victims, have described their

19 ordeals and suffering.

20 In this case, there is no need to hear much so-called crime-base

21 evidence. Certain notorious criminal events, like the murder of the men

22 from Vukovar hospital, the abuse of victims in camps throughout

23 Bosnia-Herzegovina, are meanwhile common knowledge or at least

24 adjudicated. In this trial, the Prosecution will therefore introduce

25 crime-base evidence mostly in written form. The focus of this case will

Page 872

1 be evidence dealing with the structures that were utilised to commit the

2 crimes and linking the accused to the crimes.

3 Let me now first turn to the events in Vukovar. And I'll show you

4 here a map of Vukovar. It's Exhibit 3127. And it depicts, basically, the

5 places that you will hear about from the witnesses. It's the Vukovar

6 hospital; Velepromet, a former economical complex; the JNA barracks; and

7 on the bottom, Ovcara.

8 JUDGE ORIE: Before you continue, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, can you

9 give us an idea on how much time you'd still need? Of course, I have to

10 think about a break.

11 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: It's quite -- I have basically more than

12 half, I have done, but it's still ...

13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then I suggest that we take a break now, and

14 that we'll resume at five minutes past 1.00, and then have another 40

15 minutes this morning.

16 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes. Thank you, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE ORIE: We'll adjourn until five minutes past 1.00.

18 --- Recess taken at 12.42 p.m.

19 --- On resuming at 1.07 p.m.

20 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, you may proceed.

21 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Thank you, Your Honour.

22 Before the break, we saw the town map of Vukovar with certain

23 places indicated. It's actually map 19 in the trial binder.

24 On the 18th of November, 1991, Vukovar fell to the Serb forces.

25 An elderly man and his wife, fearing the worst, went to the hospital to

Page 873

1 find protection. The following day, the non-Serb men were taken away by

2 Serb forces, threatened and cursed on their way, and eventually arrived at

3 the Ovcara farm. There they were beaten by soldiers and subjected to all

4 sorts of cruelty. Some were killed right there in front or in the hangar.

5 The elderly man, who will be a witness together with a few others,

6 survived because he knew one of the soldiers personally and that soldier

7 saved his life. The other roughly 260 men and a few women were murdered

8 and buried in a mass grave.

9 What does this event have to do with the accused Seselj? The

10 Prosecution will provide written and oral evidence that in 1991, the

11 accused decided that the SRS should send as many volunteers as possible to

12 Vukovar. The SRS/SCP volunteers sent to Vukovar were placed under the

13 command of Milan Lancuzanin, also known as Kameni, commander of the Leva

14 Supoderica detachment, and were subordinated to the TO and the JNA.

15 Here you'll see a document. It's Exhibit 1415. It is a letter of

16 the chief of the staff of the SRS war staff dated 9 November, 1991.

17 JUDGE ORIE: It's still illegible to me. Is it my screen or ...

18 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, it's actually bad. Perhaps we can

19 highlight --

20 JUDGE ORIE: If I don't watch it through the video but through the

21 e-court, then I get it better.


23 JUDGE ORIE: At the same time, I wonder what will be provided to

24 the accused. Therefore, I'll continue to watch video, and you should take

25 care that by zooming in or out, that one could follow that also, if one

Page 874

1 receives a video, rather than to use the e-court facilities available

2 here.

3 So I now move back to the video and ...

4 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: And you can see here, it's from the Serbian

5 Radical Party War Staff --

6 JUDGE ORIE: If it will be on our screen, then I'll be able to see

7 that on the video. Could we move to the document with the assistance of

8 the technicians.

9 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: It's actually there.

10 JUDGE ORIE: No, it's not on the -- if you use the video, which is

11 the one -- there now, there we are. Could it be zoomed in in such a way

12 that we can read the relevant portions.

13 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: So you see the body of the text. What you

14 can't see right now is -- it's from the SRS War Staff, and it is addressed

15 to the commander of the Leva Supoderica detachment, referring to the

16 subordination of the volunteers to the Vukovar TO. And mentioned in the

17 first paragraph, I'm referring here particularly to the first and second

18 paragraph, there is mentioning of two other members of the SRS - that's

19 Slobodan Katic, who gets is -- is mentioned here as a commander, and also

20 you have mentioned in the second paragraph Branislav Vakic from Nis, who

21 is also appointed commander.

22 I don't want to go into more specifics of this document.

23 JUDGE ORIE: I take it that once it will be introduced in

24 evidence, then we'll get both versions, and legible for everyone.

25 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes, thank you.

Page 875

1 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Please proceed.

2 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: The Prosecution will provide testimony of

3 soldiers regarding the cooperation of the man Kameni with the commanders

4 of the TO and the JNA Guards Brigade in Vukovar. The accused himself said

5 on TV Benkovac on the 23rd of November, 1991 - and that will be Exhibit

6 734 - that "Kameni, our main commander in Vukovar, plans his action with

7 the army major in the evening and executes it the next day. The army did

8 not have enough manpower to go around capturing each house because of

9 desertion - that is what our men did."

10 A few days before the massacre at Ovcara, the accused came to

11 Vukovar in order to visit the volunteers and boost their morale. He

12 participated in a meeting with the TO and the JNA commanders. During his

13 visit in Vukovar, the accused said the following:

14 "We are all one army. This war is a great test for Serbs. Those

15 who pass the test will become winners. Deserters cannot go unpunished.

16 Not a single Ustasha must leave Vukovar alive."

17 And the soldiers did what Seselj had requested them to do. When

18 the Serb forces occupied the city, hundreds of Croats were killed by Serb

19 forces. Among those committing the murders at Vukovar and in Ovcara and

20 elsewhere in Vukovar were the SRS/SCP volunteers, commanded by Kameni.

21 Let me show you a photo - Exhibit 2441 - that shows the accused in

22 the destroyed Vukovar. And to his left, the man with the cap, that is the

23 man Kameni, Lancuzanin, the commander of the Leva Supoderica detachment.

24 We will hear from witnesses present at the Ovcara farm, Vukovar

25 hospital, the barracks and Ovcara that the SRS/SCP volunteers led by

Page 876

1 Kameni wanted revenge on those taken from the Vukovar hospital. The

2 evidence will show that many SRS/SCP volunteers participated in the mass

3 murder at Ovcara. And we will hear from witnesses that the man Kameni was

4 a close associate of the accused. He had direct access to the accused and

5 reported to him personally.

6 Kameni was recently convicted and sentenced to 20 years'

7 imprisonment in Belgrade for his participation in the atrocities at Ovcara

8 farm.

9 And I will show you now a photo of Kameni. He is here under

10 number 8. Under number 8 you can see the man Kameni.

11 And I'll show you another photo. Photo -- showing the person

12 inter alia, Branislav Vakic, who was also mentioned in the order that you

13 saw previously. There's a question mark behind the name "Vakic". That's

14 from an earlier stage. The witness -- you will see witnesses who clearly

15 identify this person.

16 The accused, on the 13th of May, 1993, promoted Kameni and Vakic

17 to the rank of Chetnik Vojvoda for their achievement during the Vukovar

18 campaign and elsewhere. And the photos that you saw are from the ceremony

19 appointing these Vojvodas.

20 And I will show you the document that I mentioned already earlier.

21 That's the promotion order number 124. You can see here, on top of it

22 there is the order, 124, and when you look at number 3, you see here that

23 Branislav Vakic is promoted. He is called "Chetnik Major" in this

24 paragraph. It says: "In April 1991 he was in Borovo Selo. He

25 participated in the liberation of Vukovar as deputy commander of the Leva

Page 877

1 Supoderica volunteer unit. He also commanded the Serbian Chetnik units in

2 Serbian Herzegovina in May and June 1992." There are a references made to

3 a lot of places, including Mostar.

4 And under number 10, you see a description of Milan Lancuzanin,

5 Kameni, and I only want to draw your attention to the fact that he's

6 actually mentioned as the best of the best, and the excellent commander of

7 the Leva Supoderica detachment.

8 What the order does not say but what the evidence will show is

9 that wherever these two Vojvodas were active in the field, non-Serbs were

10 murdered. These two are not the only perpetrators of crimes against

11 humanity who were promoted by the accused on that occasion, on the 13th of

12 May, 1993. I will come to this later.

13 Topola, another SRS/SCP volunteer - his nickname is Topola - was

14 also present at Ovcara farm. He killed Croats also elsewhere in Vukovar,

15 including Velepromet, a commercial complex close to the JNA barracks, used

16 by the Serb forces as a detention facility. After the fall of Vukovar,

17 Topola and some other SRS/SCP volunteers removed detainees from the room

18 where they were detained and killed them. That's a separate charge in the

19 indictment related to Vukovar.

20 The evidence will show that when Seselj was informed about the

21 crimes committed by Topola, he simply said: "What can I do? Disarm the

22 man and send him home. He is tired."

23 The excused or his associates did not report these crimes to the

24 Serbian authorities in Belgrade. Instead, they later sent Topola as a

25 volunteer to Bosnia and Herzegovina, where he again committed serious

Page 878

1 crimes against the non-Serb population.

2 Let me now briefly turn to Western Slavonia, and in particular,

3 Vocin in the Podravska Slatina municipality. That's the map 2 in the

4 binder. I just want to indicate to you where Podravska Slatina is

5 situated. As you can see, it's right east of Virovitica.

6 Looking at this map, it is obvious that if Seselj and others

7 wanted the JCE to establish the borders of Greater Serbia along the

8 Karlobag-Ogulin-Karlovac-Virovitica line, they needed to control the

9 Podravska Slatina municipality. And if they wanted a homogeneous Greater

10 Serbia, they needed to expel the Croatian population which amounted to

11 1.500 inhabitants in Vocin. And this is what, indeed, was done from

12 August to December 1991, when the Serb forces were in control in Vocin.

13 What connects the accused to these events? The JNA neither did

14 have the manpower to engage its units in this part of Western Slavonia or

15 did not want to. The evidence will show that the other JCE members, in

16 particular Slobodan Milosevic, did not pay much attention to Western

17 Slavonia. It was the accused who took a particular interest in the

18 take-over of this territory.

19 Throughout the fall of 1991, the SRS sent hundreds of hundreds of

20 volunteers to Western Slavonia. Had they not been brought to Western

21 Slavonia by Seselj, and had they not terrorised the non-Serb population,

22 both the Croats and the Serbs would have been a -- suffering of both the

23 Croats and the Serbs would have been avoided.

24 The Prosecution will not lead any crime-base evidence. However,

25 we will show, in relation to this particular place, how close and how

Page 879

1 effective the SRS and the TO in Western Slavonia and elsewhere coordinated

2 their actions.

3 I want to show you four documents in a row.

4 The first one is a request of the Western Slavonia TO, of the 12th

5 of October, 1991, asking the SRS headquarters in Belgrade for the

6 provision of volunteers.

7 The next document is actually the reaction of the SRS War Staff of

8 the 16th of October, approving the dispatch of volunteers but asking for

9 certain technical matters in relation to the troops, about their

10 accommodation and the like.

11 The next document -- and I forgot to say, that's actually Exhibit

12 1413.

13 Exhibit 1414 is, again, a letter of the TO Western Slavonia to the

14 SRS, from the 19th of October, 1991, actually, addressing these particular

15 technical matters that were raised. And a few days later, volunteers were

16 dispatched with their SRS and SCP commander.

17 And I'll show you here the next document. It's the Exhibit 2144.

18 It's an authorisation of the 24th of October, 1991. Zoran Rankic, the

19 Deputy Chief of the SRS War Staff, informs the Podravska Slatina TO staff

20 that Radovan Novacic was authorised "on behalf of the SRS volunteer units"

21 to coordinate with them.

22 These documents show that within two weeks, volunteers, including

23 a commander, were dispatched after a TO request. And that is just one

24 example of how the SRS headquarters, the JNA, and the local authorities

25 acted "hand in glove" throughout the conflict in Croatia and

Page 880

1 Bosnia-Herzegovina.

2 In this context, let me refer again to the basic military

3 organisation of the Serbian Radical Party volunteers. I have already

4 shown you this document briefly, and it's Exhibit 1261. And I would like

5 to draw your attention to Rule number 7, where it says that "the

6 volunteers of the Serbian Radical Party are engaged in combat and other

7 combat-related activities independently or as part of the appropriate unit

8 of the JNA, army of Republika Srpska, or army of Serbian Krajina,

9 according to the plans made by the commands of the aforementioned armies.

10 "Volunteer units are engaged in these armies only in their

11 entirety and under the command of the volunteer commanders, exceptions

12 possible if arranged."

13 In this connection, a volunteer commander, in full authority and

14 responsibility, is delegated to the specific command to coordinate

15 possibilities, requests, requirements, utilisation, and security of the

16 volunteer units.

17 And now let's go to paragraph 11, where the hierarchial command

18 structure in the SRS is described as follows:

19 "The Commands of the Serbian Radical Party Volunteers are

20 organised as commanding organs for all volunteer forces, their units and

21 their combat activities. They are formed analogously to commanding

22 structure of the party organs. The Homeland Command, commands of military

23 districts and commands of units."

24 And I told you in the beginning that Vojislav Seselj was actually

25 the chief of the Homeland Command.

Page 881

1 Witnesses will tell us that at times the SRS transferred

2 volunteers of its party and other volunteers together to the front lines.

3 For the local population, the volunteers were just the same. Their

4 presence created a climate of fear by looting, threatening, abusing and

5 killing civilians. And what is important: They all considered themselves

6 Chetniks and associated themselves with the accused's goal of Greater

7 Serbia.

8 Again, in relation to Vocin, in November 1991, the accused visited

9 Vocin and met his volunteers, and we will hear from local witnesses that

10 the volunteers, after meeting Seselj, became more aggressive and there was

11 a sharp increase of crimes against Croat civilians after this visit.

12 In general, the SRS/SCP volunteers were widely known for their

13 brutality and ruthlessness. The Prosecution will provide numerous

14 documents from the military, the police and from NGOs that the bad

15 reputation of the SRS/SCP volunteers were not based on myth but based on

16 facts.

17 And I will show you only one example and -- for Croatia. That's a

18 letter from Helsinki Watch, from the 21st of January, 1992. It is Exhibit

19 1418. I just draw your attention to page 2, paragraph 3, where it says

20 the following:

21 "The Serbian government has also condoned and, in some cases,

22 supported the formation of at least three paramilitary groups in Serbia

23 which operate in Croatia. What appears to be the most brutal of these

24 groups is led by Vojislav Seselj, leader of the Serbian Radical Party and

25 the Serbian Chetnik Movement. Seselj's group of paramilitaries call

Page 882

1 themselves Chetniks and operate throughout Croatia."

2 That will do. Just to mention the two other groups that are

3 referred to in this letter were actually Arkan's men and Mirko Jovic's

4 group, often remembered to as White Eagles.

5 And now one example for Bosnia and Herzegovina. It is Exhibit

6 1339. And it is a report prepared by the Main Staff of the VRS, on the

7 28th of July, 1992, and the document -- report prepared is

8 entitled "Report on Paramilitary Formations in the Territory of Serbian

9 Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina." It reads as follows, and I quote:

10 "They are mostly composed of individuals of low moral quality, and

11 in many cases of persons previously prosecuted for crimes and offences and

12 even convicted of murder, robbery, larceny and the like. Very often, such

13 units have in their ranks pathological criminals whom the conditions of

14 war and general lawlessness have brought to the fore. Many formations of

15 this type display hatred of non-Serbian peoples and one can conclude

16 without reservations that they are the genocidal elements among the

17 Serbian people. War profiteering and looting are the motive for the great

18 majority of the paramilitaries ..."

19 And another point: "One common feature of all paramilitary

20 formations is that they do not take part in direct fighting with the

21 enemy. Instead, they are operating behind the lines of the regular

22 Serbian Republic Bosnian Army units, looting and burning property and

23 killing the innocent civilian population."

24 This report identifies various groups, but they name also

25 Seseljevci or Seselj's men, a term often used for the SRS/SCP volunteers.

Page 883

1 The Prosecution will provide evidence that the accused Seselj was

2 fully apprised of the types of people that joined the ranks of the SRS and

3 SCP volunteers, and other volunteers he assisted in transferring to the

4 regions. Both the SRS members and local officials informed the accused

5 and his associates in the SRS office in Belgrade about the unruly and

6 cruel behaviour of the volunteers on the ground. Those providing such

7 information to the accused were met with indifference or even hostility.

8 The accused was fully aware about the events on the front. His

9 staff in the region and in Belgrade kept him constantly informed. During

10 his many visits to the front lines both in Croatia and Bosnia and

11 Herzegovina, the accused would see with his own eyes the destruction done

12 by the Serb forces on Muslim and Croat settlements.

13 As a high-ranking politician and member of the Serbian parliament,

14 the accused, of course, had many means of receiving information. And let

15 us not forget, a large amount of information about military actions and

16 crimes was in the public domain.

17 Now let me turn to Bosnia and Herzegovina, and in particular,

18 Bosanski Samac -- just in passing, Bosanski Samac, Bijeljina, and Brcko.

19 I have already mentioned the speech of Radovan Karadzic of the

20 12th of May, 1992, stressing the crucial importance of the corridor. The

21 Serb leadership in Serbia and RSK were equally aware of the importance of

22 the Posavina Corridor as the lifeline to the Serbian motherland.

23 Therefore, members of the JCE from all territories and institutions were

24 involved in the planning, preparation, and execution of the military

25 operations in the corridor, including the accused Seselj. And I'm just

Page 884

1 pointing out here the map -- the map number 2 in the binder, where you can

2 see that Bosanski Samac, Brcko, and Bijeljina lie in that corridor. And

3 there's also -- you can also already see that Zvornik is also important

4 for the corridor and for the goal in relation to the Drina River.

5 These three municipalities are -- before the war, the majority

6 population in Bosanski Samac was of Croat ethnicity; in Brcko, Muslims had

7 the majority; and in Bijeljina, the majority was Serb. However, in all

8 three locations, the same things happened. From April 1992 onwards,

9 non-Serbs were expelled from these municipalities by force.

10 The Prosecution will not hear any crime-base witnesses. Some

11 witnesses, however, will address the events there in general terms. And

12 their evidence will show that the attack on the non-Serb population in

13 Bosnia and Herzegovina actually started in Bijeljina.

14 In these three municipalities that are mentioned, the local

15 authorities as well as the Bosnian Serb leadership requested that the SRS

16 send volunteers to these municipalities. And, indeed, SRS volunteers did

17 arrive and participated in the initial attack on these locations and also

18 in the crimes that followed.

19 To Bosanski Samac, the SRS War Staff sent volunteers that were led

20 by Srecko Radovanovic, Debeli. And you see him here on this photo that's

21 Exhibit 3117 -- 3017. He is there on the right side.

22 And in Brcko and Bijeljina, Mirko Blagojevic was in charge of the

23 SRS/SCP volunteers. And you see him here, the man with the typical

24 Serbian hat and kokarda.

25 The SRS/SCP volunteers fought alongside JNA units, Bosnian Serb

Page 885

1 TO, members of the Serbian MUP and Arkan's Tigers.

2 The Prosecution will provide evidence that the accused was

3 informed about the violent events in the said municipalities, yet he

4 promoted those two that I mentioned to Vojvodas. And it's actually the

5 same promotion order that you saw previously here. Mr. Debeli -- Debeli

6 is the nickname. Debeli is here under number 15, Srecko Radovanovic is

7 mentioned here, and he is mentioned as a Chetnik colonel who organised and

8 trained Chetnik units. He is mentioned as being a participant in Croatia

9 from April 1992, and then in Bosnia inter alia Bosanski Samac and Brcko

10 are mentioned. And number 2 of that same order shows Mirko Blagojevic,

11 who is mentioned in relation to the entire Semberija, in particular,

12 Bijeljina, Zvornik and Brcko.

13 I have already shown you where Zvornik is situated and how

14 important it was for both the goal in relation to the corridor and the

15 third goal in relation to the Drina River. The events in this

16 municipality illustrate, in the most shocking way, the pattern that

17 unfolded through Bosnia-Herzegovina.

18 To get firm control over Zvornik, the members of the JCE had to

19 expel in particular the Muslim population that made up 59% of the

20 population in Zvornik in 1991. By March 1992, the Bosnian Serbs had

21 established their own police force in Zvornik, had declared Zvornik a

22 Serbian municipality, and were preparing the attack on Zvornik.

23 Beginning in April, Serb forces attacked Muslims and Croats living

24 in town, villages, and small settlements, most of which were undefended

25 and contained no military targets. Muslims and Croats were mistreated and

Page 886

1 killed during the attack, and even more so during the persecution campaign

2 that unfolded afterwards.

3 The non-Serb population, mostly men, were arrested and taken to

4 various detention facilities. The conditions in the detention facilities

5 were horrible. Many detainees were beaten, tortured and killed. They

6 were also forced to work. And thousands of non-Serbs, mostly Muslims,

7 were expelled from their municipality. Their homes were looted and

8 destroyed as well as religious and cultural monuments.

9 And just here, a map -- a town map of Zvornik, with the detention

10 facilities shown. You can see it also on the map 22 that you have in the

11 map binder, where you can see the photos better.

12 The Prosecution will provide evidence of the massacre of 88 Muslim

13 males at Drinjaca Dom Kulture between the 30th and the 31st of May, 1992;

14 the killing of 150 men at the Karakaj Technical School, between 7 and 9

15 June; the massacre of 150 Muslim males at Gero's slaughterhouse between 7

16 and 9 June; and the murder of more than 14 non-Serb detainees between the

17 1st and the 26th of June, at Celopek Dom Culture.

18 These figures alone show clearly the extraordinary brutality the

19 non-Serb population was subjected to in Zvornik.

20 Why is the accused charged with these crimes? In March 1992,

21 while the Bosnian Serbs were preparing the attack, the accused gave a

22 speech in Mali Zvornik, just across the Drina River from Zvornik, and he

23 declared: "Dear Chetnik brothers, especially you across the Drina River,

24 you are the bravest ones. We are going to clean Bosnia of pagans and show

25 them a road which will take them to the east, where they belong."

Page 887

1 In April 1992, Branko Grujic, the president of the Crisis Staff in

2 Zvornik, requested SRS volunteers to come to Zvornik, and the accused

3 personally approved this request. We will hear from witnesses that SRS

4 leaders brought SRS volunteers from Loznica, commanded by Dragan

5 Cvetinovic, to Zvornik. Subsequently, when the war broke out, local Serbs

6 joined those SRS/SCP volunteers.

7 You will also hear evidence that SRS/SCP volunteers took part in

8 the violent takeover of Zvornik town and fought alongside Arkan's Tigers,

9 the local TO and the JNA and police forces. The SRS/SCP volunteers were

10 commanded by Miroslav Vukovic, also known as Cele. Both Miroslav Vukovic

11 and Dragan Cvetinovic were promoted in the same order that you now saw a

12 couple of times. Mr. Vukovic is under number 5. He's named as the

13 commander of the units of the Serbian Chetnik Movement and the SRS in

14 Slavonia, Baranja and Western Srem. And he's also mentioned in eastern

15 Slavonia. And we have number 16, Dragan Cvetinovic, who is mentioned as

16 commander of the Chetniks -- Chetnik unit from Loznica. We also have the

17 photos of these two persons. One is Exhibit 3036. We see here in the

18 middle, Miroslav Vukovic, and we have the photo of Cvetinovic as well.

19 And he is seen here next to Mirko Blagojevic.

20 The Prosecution will provide evidence that the SRS and SCP

21 volunteers took part in every mass killing that I just mentioned.

22 Many witnesses will refer to the crimes committed by the Yellow

23 Wasps, and the Prosecution will provide witness evidence that the

24 so-called Yellow Wasps, led by the Vuckovic brothers, were SRS/SCP

25 volunteers to begin with. They had joined the SRS in 1991 and had been

Page 888

1 indoctrinated by Seselj's hate propaganda. They had fought already in

2 Croatia, and it was the SRS headquarters in Belgrade that brought them to

3 Zvornik.

4 Finally, the Prosecution will provide evidence that throughout the

5 fighting and the persecution campaign in Zvornik, the accused was

6 regularly provided with information by SRS officials around Zvornik. Some

7 of the proceeds from the looting went to the fund of the SRS in Belgrade.

8 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, I'm looking at the clock. It's

9 a quarter to 2.00.


11 JUDGE ORIE: So we have to finish for the day.

12 You used, until now, approximately 1 hour and 40 minutes, which

13 means that there are 50 minutes remaining for tomorrow. Two and a half

14 hours.

15 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes. In relation to what I have to say, but

16 there's also --

17 JUDGE ORIE: No, no, the Prosecution was granted two and a half

18 hours for the opening statement. The 8th of November, Status Conference,

19 I think I said the Prosecution should not take more than two and a half

20 hours for its opening statement, which means 150 minutes. You've used 100

21 minutes by now, so another 50 minutes remaining.

22 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honour, yes, that's right. I misheard.

23 I heard you say 15 minutes, and I was thinking how can we finish. Sorry.

24 I misheard, 50 minutes that's fine.

25 JUDGE ORIE: So that means we'll resume tomorrow morning at 9.00,

Page 889

1 in this same courtroom, and you'll then have until ten minutes to 10.00 to

2 finalise your opening statement. We'll then, depending on whether Mr.

3 Seselj is in this court or not, hear his unsworn statement. Since we have

4 to take an early break tomorrow, if we will not finish tomorrow, as I said

5 before, we will then continue on Friday afternoon.

6 We stand adjourned.

7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.45 p.m.,

8 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 28th day of

9 November, 2006, at 9.00 a.m.