Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 14885

1 [Closed session]

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3 [The witness entered court]

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13 Pages 14886-14933 redacted closed session













Page 14934

1 [redacted]

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4 [Open session]

5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] May I just make a correction. This

6 can be done in open session, Your Honours. The witness, on page 49, in

7 line 9, said that it was a representative of the Red Cross from Zupanja

8 and not from the canton, he mentioned the town of Zupanja. In the course

9 of his testimony, he explained where that town is and this is quite

10 important so I would like it to be quite clear in the transcript for this

11 word to appear, Zupanja.

12 JUDGE MUMBA: Very well, it will be corrected.

13 Yes, about the next witness.

14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I indicated to the

15 registrar that I needed to provide two pieces of information regarding the

16 testimony of this witness, the Defence has two viva voce witnesses and

17 then the accused Tadic should testify. We still have two witnesses by

18 videolink in accordance with plan and your instructions we provided for

19 the witness to come yesterday, Sveto Vasovic he arrived yesterday. I

20 would also like to inform you that this is a witness for whom we have

21 secured the personal escort or to be accompanied by his daughter. He has

22 had three bypass surgeries but he did want to come and he felt capable of

23 coming and testifying viva voce.

24 What happened yesterday early in the morning at the Belgrade

25 airport is that the computer system didn't work and it wasn't possible for

Page 14935

1 him to go into the plane. We personally communicated with officials from

2 Yugoslav Airlines and they placed him in the plane without a ticket but he

3 did have a lot of problems with the administrative staff. When I spoke to

4 him at 7.00 in the morning at Belgrade airport I found out that he wasn't

5 feeling very well and then we immediately scheduled him to be seen by a

6 doctor which was done yesterday and the doctor yesterday at the end of

7 yesterday's session informed us that he cannot testified today at all and

8 that he cannot also -- that we cannot also have any proofing sessions with

9 him. My colleague Krgovic went to see him last night immediately and he

10 expressed the wish to appear before the Chamber as soon as possible. He

11 wanted to do that today but we had to respect the wishes of the doctor.

12 My colleague Krgovic also went to see him today. He feels very

13 well and we think, we cannot say that 100 per cent but we really believe

14 and it is of importance for us for him to appear in the courtroom

15 tomorrow. We still don't have any confirmation. Today he will also

16 undergo another examination by the doctor but we are able at this point to

17 confirm that tomorrow he should be able to appear to testify. The other

18 witness, I did not -- I do not wish to state his name in open session, but

19 I don't know what measures he will be requesting but you do have his

20 information that I provided for you.

21 This is a witness who was initially, if you remember, planned for

22 depositions when we received your decision, we were already here and then

23 by telephone, we communicated with him. The technical problems which

24 existed at that point have now been surmounted, he didn't have a passport

25 at all at the time, now he does have one and we have been informed that he

Page 14936

1 could perhaps get a visa tomorrow. Technically it would be possible for

2 him to be here on Friday, to come on the morning flight on Friday but what

3 poses difficulties for us and I would like to hear the position of the

4 Chamber on this right now, if this person arrives on Friday, the flight

5 leaves Belgrade at 20 to 7.00 in the morning he could in The Hague at

6 11.00 a.m., we did not have any preparations with this witness for live

7 testimony and we believe that it would not be possible to do such

8 preparations in one hour. And then we would only have about one hour

9 remaining because we are planning for Mr. Vasovic to be examined in chief

10 all day tomorrow and half of Friday and then of course we would need time

11 for cross-examination and re-examination as well so I would request the

12 Chamber and this would be useful for the Defence as well and it would also

13 be economical not to bring this witness now and interrupt his testimony.

14 We could hear Vasovic first then when we finish with Vasovic, we could

15 finish for the week.

16 If the Trial Chamber insists, we will bring him on Friday to see

17 if it's essential for him to come into the courtroom but we believe it

18 will be very difficult for him just to hear him for one hour, not only

19 that, but we need to inform the Prosecution of our notes as well so we

20 think that this would be unfair to the Prosecution as well.

21 JUDGE MUMBA: Besides the witness who is already here, whom you

22 say has -- is a heart patient, the arrangements for the other witness whom

23 you say is scheduled to arrive on Friday morning will be dealt with by the

24 legal officer. The Trial Chamber will liaise with you with the legal

25 officer possibly before the end of tonight or even tomorrow since he can

Page 14937

1 only depart on Friday so you will able to make your arrangements.

2 Regarding this witness whom you say has been to see the doctor and

3 the doctor is of the view that he should be allowed to rest today, it's

4 all right that he can rest and then we can hear him tomorrow but I would

5 like to say to you, Mr. Lukic, that as you know that he is a heart

6 patient, we would like to avoid a situation where he has to rest in

7 between his testimony so please do stick to your summary, take him

8 directly to the matters which are in issue which he is going to discuss

9 and don't let him deal with peripheral matters. What I'm trying to say is

10 let's use him as economically as possible to allow for his health so that

11 he can finish as quickly as possible and they can he can go.

12 Because your summaries are clear as to what he's going to discuss,

13 yes, and --

14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, yes, that's right, Your

15 Honours. We will stick to our summaries completely and I informed the

16 Prosecution that the only topics that we will deal with from the summary

17 are the mention of the witnesses of the Prosecution, the witness, but

18 everything will be a -- in accordance with the schedule that we have

19 planned and I think so far we have kept to the schedule and did not exceed

20 our allotted time so the Defence will be focussing on his work

21 exclusively.

22 JUDGE MUMBA: My concern is not about the hours. My concern is

23 about his health so that we don't have a situation where he gives evidence

24 half way then he has to go then come back another time. That's what I'm

25 saying. So stick to your summaries.

Page 14938

1 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] It is our wish -- I asked him, we

2 knew about his health, we asked him whether he would prefer to testify by

3 videolink or would he like to come and he expressed the wish to come and

4 testify live so now that he's here, we do not want to interrupt his

5 testimony, so we believe that we will be able to complete everything with

6 this witness and there will be no need for him to come back at all.

7 JUDGE MUMBA: Very well.

8 Any other matters from the Prosecution at this stage?

9 MR. RE: Your Honour, would it be an appropriate point, I've

10 spoken to the registry about this for the formal numbering of those

11 exhibits, the Prosecution tendered several weeks ago, I think the registry

12 office has them on a piece of paper now.

13 JUDGE MUMBA: I'm wondering whether she's ready for that since it

14 has just come abruptly. Yes. You are ready? Yes, we can go ahead with

15 that. While she's checking her numbers, I was wondering about the witness

16 Belka Andric and the Prosecution's response because the summary has

17 already been given to the Prosecution this is Mrs. Belka Andric who

18 Mr. Blagoje Simic is replacing or substituting, rather. He will come --

19 she will come under Rule 92 bis.

20 MR. WEINER: Yes, the bank teller, is that the one.


22 MR. WEINER: We have no objection.

23 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, we will proceed and get the exhibit numbers.

24 THE REGISTRAR: There is a total of 13 exhibits which were

25 admitted on the 9th of January, 2003. The parties have already been

Page 14939

1 provided with the updated lists. Exhibit P147 is a conference on

2 Yugoslavia arbitration committee dated 20th of November, 1991. Exhibit

3 P148 is a Badinter Commission opinion number two right of Serbian people

4 in Bosnia-Herzegovina dated 11th of January, 1992.

5 Exhibit P149 is the Badinter Commission opinion number three,

6 internal boundaries between Croatia and Serbia dated the 11th of January,

7 1992. Exhibit P150 is the Badinter Commission opinion number four on

8 international recognition of Republika Srpska dated 11th of January, 1992.

9 Exhibit P151 is the ruling of Constitutional Court of Republika Srpska of

10 1st of November 1991 regarding agreement of joint association of Bosanska

11 Krajina municipality with the English translation.

12 Exhibit P152 is the ruling of Constitutional Court of

13 Bosnia-Herzegovina dated 8th of October 1992 referring to the declaration

14 of proclamation of the Republika Srpska with the English translation.

15 Exhibit P153 is the official gazette of Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina

16 dated 18th of September 1992 with the English translation. Exhibit P154

17 is an extract of minutes of the 8th joint session of the Chambers of the

18 assembly of the Republika Srpska dated 14th of October, 1991 with the

19 English translation.

20 Exhibit P155 is the extract of minutes of the 9th joint session

21 of the Chambers of the assembly of the Republika Srpska held on the 24th

22 and 25th of January, 1992 with the English translation. Exhibit P156 is

23 the official gazette of the Serb people in Bosnia and Herzegovina, year 1,

24 number 3 dated 16th of March, 1992 with the English translation.

25 Exhibit P157 is the official gazette of the Serb people in

Page 14940

1 Bosnia-Herzegovina year 1, number 21, with the English translation.

2 Exhibit P158 is the Balogh paper of Serb plebiscite of the 9th and 10th of

3 November 1991 with the English translation.

4 Exhibit P159 are the instructions for the conduct of the

5 plebiscite of the Serbian population [Realtime transcript read in error

6 "police station] in Bosnia and Herzegovina dated 28th of October, 1991

7 with the English translation.

8 MR. LAZAREVIC: And one small correction for the transcript it

9 says page 56 line 5, population instead of police station [Realtime

10 transcript read in error "population"].

11 JUDGE MUMBA: That correction is accepted.

12 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, Mr. Pantelic.

13 MR. PANTELIC: Also on the page 55 line 9, it says Constitutional

14 Court of Republika Srpska of the November 1991, I don't believe that the

15 Republika Srpska was established in 1991, maybe it's some misspelling or

16 misunderstanding or error in typing from Prosecution in that list. Maybe

17 we should clarify that because it's a well-known fact.

18 JUDGE MUMBA: Can that be verified?

19 THE REGISTRAR: I shall repeat the title of Exhibit P155. It's

20 an extract of minutes of the 9th joint session of the Chambers of the

21 assembly [sic] of the Republika Srpska of Bosnia and Herzegovina held 24th

22 and 25th of January, 1992 and is headed continuation of session on 11th

23 October 1991 with the English translation.

24 JUDGE WILLIAMS: As well, I think there should be a correction to

25 Mr. Lazarevic's intervention because the translation says population

Page 14941

1 instead of population. Instead of police station as you kindly informed

2 us.

3 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, Mr. Re.

4 MR. RE: The assistant registrar just read I think it was Exhibits

5 P154 and P155 calling it the assembly of the Republika Srpska of Bosnia

6 and Herzegovina, that's not right it's the -- it was the Socialist

7 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina as Mr. Pantelic said the Republika

8 Srpska didn't exist.

9 JUDGE MUMBA: Can we have the correction.

10 THE REGISTRAR: That is correct, I apologise, I misread. Thank

11 you.

12 MR. PANTELIC: Maybe I don't want to take so much time, we are

13 speaking about the Exhibit P151, it was mentioned on the page 55 line 8

14 and 9, in transcripts it says Exhibit P151 is the ruling of Constitutional

15 Court of Republika Srpska of 1st of November, 1991 regarding agreement et

16 cetera et cetera. So that was the basis for my intervention, Your Honour,

17 because in 1991, there was no Republika Srpska and consequently there was

18 no Constitutional Court so that's it.

19 THE REGISTRAR: It is the Socialist Republic. Thank you.

20 JUDGE MUMBA: The Trial Chamber has a ruling regarding the expert

21 report by Dr. Leposava Kron. The Trial Chamber has considered the

22 Prosecution motion to exclude the proposed Defence expert evidence of Dr.

23 Leposava Kron, the joint Defence response to this motion and the

24 Prosecution's subsequent reply have also been noted by the Trial Chamber.

25 The report of Dr. Kron may be distinguished from the report of Dr. Stewart

Page 14942

1 Turner filed in the Galic case on the basis that that latter report was

2 tailored to the facts of the indictment whereas the report of Dr. Kron

3 presents a general discussion of the psychology of war which has no

4 relevance or probative value to the specific facts of this case. Dr.

5 Kron's report does not consider the behaviour of the population of

6 Bosanski Samac nor does it relate to any -- nor does it relate in a

7 scientific study to the allegation of the persecution, deportation and

8 transfer as laid out in the indictment.

9 In accordance with Rule 89 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence

10 and notwithstanding Rule 94 bis the Trial Chamber may exclude evidence

11 that is irrelevant and where it's probative value is substantially

12 outweighed by the need to ensure a fair trial, the Trial Chamber therefore

13 concludes that the report of Dr. Kron is irrelevant and bears no

14 probative value to this case it is therefore excluded. The motion of the

15 Prosecution is granted.

16 As we cannot hear the next witness on account of his health, we

17 shall adjourn and resume our proceedings tomorrow.

18 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

19 at 5.08 p.m., to be reconvened on Thursday,

20 the 30th day of January, 2003, at 2.15 p.m.