1 Thursday, 29 August 2002
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.40 a.m.
6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Very good morning to everybody. May we first
7 hear the case?
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning. This is case number IT-97-24-T, the
9 Prosecutor versus Milomir Stakic.
10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And may we hear the appearances of day 65?
11 MR. WAIDYARATNE: Thank you, Your Honour, good morning to you.
12 Kapila Waidyaratne with my colleagues Nicholas Koumjian and Ruth Karper
13 appearing for the Prosecutor.
14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And for the Defence, please?
15 MR. LUKIC: Good morning, Your Honours, Branko Lukic, John Ostojic
16 and Danilo Cirkovic for the Defence.
17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May I ask you, please, to proceed with the
19 WITNESS: JUSUF ARIFAGIC [Resumed]
20 [Witness answered through interpreter]
21 Cross-examined by Mr. Lukic: [Continued]
22 MR. LUKIC:
23 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning.
24 A. Good morning.
25 Q. Did you get enough rest?
1 A. Yes, a little.
2 Q. I will not take long today. We just have several minor points to
3 clarify, and then I will, in a manner of speaking, hand you over to the
4 Trial Chamber.
5 Did you have the impression that the preparations that were taking
6 place in Kozarac to defend Kozarac were part of a wider plan?
7 A. I had no such impression. In Kozarac there could not have been
8 any wider plan. Everybody was about Kozarac itself because Kozarac was
9 not physically connected with a wider area.
10 Q. Do you know whether, in the meetings held in Kozarac, persons from
11 other regions also participated? Such as Kemal Alagic, nicknamed
13 A. No, I'm not familiar with anything like that.
14 Q. Do you know that Kemal Alagic, also known as Divljak, with his
15 group, took part in an attempt to take Kozarac back?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Were you aware of the decision of the Presidency of the Republic
18 of Bosnia-Herzegovina reported by the Minister of the Interior, Alija
19 Delimustafic, and sent by him to all public security centres and public
20 security stations to put up roadblocks on all roads throughout Bosnia and
21 Herzegovina, which the JNA were using to evacuate the military and
22 technical equipment?
23 A. I did not know that. First thing I hear of it.
24 Q. Now, I would like to ask you something about your father. The
25 certificate he was issued by the civilian authorities, that he could move
1 about freely after he had been released from one of the camps, you say
2 that when he showed this certificate to the soldiers, they told him in a
3 rude way that they would not recognise that certificate.
4 A. Yes. Actually that was a certificate he had obtained from the
5 Serbian Red Cross in Trnopolje and that certificate only permitted him to
6 go with his family to the next village and that he could continue to live
7 at my grandfather's place, my mother's father's place. When the soldiers
8 knocked at his door, he produced the certificate hoping that he would
9 thereby prove that he was -- that he had been legally released from the
10 camp but they just cut the certificate up, they tore it up, and they took
11 him away.
12 Q. Do you know whether Sead Cirkin, ex-JNA captain, is still alive
14 A. Yes, he is.
15 Q. You did see him in the Keraterm camp during your detention there,
16 didn't you?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. During your stay in Kozarac prior to the breakout of the conflict,
19 were you familiar with the existence of such groups as Kole's group or
20 Ramiz's group?
21 A. I used to know both Kole and Ramiz, not very well but I did not
22 know anything about any groups related to them. Those were not people I
23 was spending much of my time with.
24 Q. Did you not by any chance hear from other people that they were
25 organising military groups?
1 A. I used to see Kole in Kozarac during that period but whether he
2 was organising any groups, I couldn't tell. There are always people whom
3 one decides to spend more time with than other people one just knows but
4 does not spend much time with.
5 Q. Thank you. Were you a member of the Territorial Defence of
7 A. If you're referring to the period after the general call-up by the
8 government in Sarajevo, and the mobilisation, well, yes, in that case, I
9 did it take part as a citizen who tried to protect his family. But I was
10 not a member of any uniformed unit wearing any sort of insignia or
11 anything like that.
12 Q. Did you sign up to become a member of the Kozarac TO?
13 A. No, I didn't.
14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could the usher please show the
15 witness the document marked as D11? And to show him page A/1/90?
16 Q. On the ELMO, you can see a page which is part of a document
17 listing all members of the Kozarac TO. Under number 92, we can see the
18 name Jusuf Arifagic. I would now like to ask the usher to please show the
19 witness the statement given by him on the 21st and 22nd October, 1994, to
20 the investigators of the Tribunal. This is your own statement from 1994.
21 It's in English, and what we need this statement for now is for you to
22 tell us whether, at the bottom of the page, there is your signature?
23 A. Yes, that is my signature.
24 Q. Do you also recognise the signature next to the name Jusuf
25 Arifagic under number 92 as your own signature also?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Can you now recall the fact that in fact you signed up to become a
3 member of the TO?
4 A. For us, this had nothing to do with membership of the TO. This
5 was just a list of persons who took part in the guard duty around Kozarac.
6 So this is not a full list of TO members. This is a different thing. I
7 know that I signed down on a list containing the names of people who stood
8 guard around Kozarac. In any sense of active service, wearing uniform,
9 commanding or anything like that, I was not a member of the TO.
10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could the usher please put the
11 document D11 back on the ELMO? And could you just pull it up a bit higher
12 so that we can see the stamp?
13 Q. The bottom of the page, there is typewritten "the TO staff of
15 A. No. I think when these lists were drawn up, we just signed. I
16 don't think they were even typewritten. I know that lists of people were
17 made who would stand guard around Kozarac. This TO and the rest, when it
18 was added I really don't know.
19 Q. You say you signed this without the names being typewritten?
20 A. Yes, I think that's possible. We just put our name down as people
21 who would stand guard around Kozarac. What was done with these lists
22 later on --
23 Q. Doesn't it seem obvious to you that first the names were
24 typewritten and then the lines were drawn because the lines were added
25 after the names had been typewritten obviously?
1 A. That sounds possible.
2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, usher, we no longer require
3 this document.
4 May I just have a moment, please?
5 Q. When the attack began on the 24th of May, 1992, the attack against
6 the guard post at which you were, we explained yesterday how you gave
7 instructions to the people there to shoot in pairs, two by two. However,
8 I forgot to ask you -- you then continued and that's on page 6, paragraph
9 4, of your statement from 1994, B/C/S version, in the English version page
10 6, paragraph 6, the last two sentences: "This continued for about ten to
11 15 minutes. The Serbs at our defence line then withdrew into Balte
12 proper." Does this mean that, at first, you were able to repulse the
13 attack by the Serb army?
14 A. This may be a mistranslation. There was no attack and thee was no
15 combat there, but I think this needs to be connected with the fighting in
16 Jakupovici because after the attack began, the attacks which were coming
17 from Balte and Jankovici, we were told that we had enough time to evacuate
18 and that area was about to fall and people were starting to withdraw
19 towards the centre of Kozarac so that's what the whole situation was
21 Q. So you were able to hold them at bay for a while and even repulse
22 them back?
23 A. Actually we were not holding them at bay. We had just opened fire
24 and we simulated the firing, the attack. We thought that they would
25 perhaps withdraw. This turned out to be true, and the people in Kamicani,
1 for instance, the civilians there, had enough time to withdraw towards the
2 centre of Kozarac.
3 Q. Thank you. On page 6, paragraph 6 of the B/C/S version of your
4 statement, given the same year, or page 6, paragraph 8 of the English
5 version of this statement, you make mention of a motel or a hospital in
6 the forest by which you passed on the 26th of May, 1992, about noon, with
7 the intention to contact Captain Cirkin. Do you know by any chance when
8 this motel was converted into a hospital? When did this become a
9 makeshift hospital?
10 A. It was never converted into a hospital. It was simply a facility
11 which was away from Kozarac in the direction of Mrakovica, not far from
12 the last village in the outskirts of Kozarac. It was located towards the
13 forest. It was not actually finished and the people who were wounded were
14 taken there. Also, the patients from the local hospital, the health
15 centre in Kozarac, they were transferred there, together with the
16 equipment that they were able to take from the hospital. It was never
17 really converted into a hospital. It was not possible to receive any kind
18 of proper treatment there.
19 Q. Do you know when the medical supplies were initially taken to this
20 facility with the purpose of using them there?
21 A. No.
22 Q. When Captain Cirkin issued his order to the person manning the
23 checkpoint that he should let the tanks come close enough so that they
24 could destroy them with zoljas, is it true that prior to that, he had said
25 that things should finally start, that there can no longer be any
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Let us try to clear up one more issue concerning Keraterm and I
4 will try to complete my cross-examination after that. I am referring to
5 the night of the massacre in Room 3 in Keraterm. Do you know whose shift
6 was on duty on that night?
7 A. According to my knowledge, it was Kole's shift.
8 Q. Did Simo Drljaca arrive after the first day or the second day?
9 A. I believe it was after the second massacre.
10 Q. How long were the shifts in Keraterm, if you know?
11 A. I think that they lasted 12 hours. They would start in the
12 morning and last until the evening and then there would be the following
13 shift starting in the evening and until the morning. We were not familiar
14 with the way it worked and how the guards were rotated.
15 Q. Do you know whose shift was on duty on the second night, the night
16 of the second massacre?
17 A. I don't remember.
18 Q. Just one more thing. In your statement you said that when you
19 were transferred, when you were taken to the Prijedor hospital from
20 Keraterm after you had been badly beaten, you were admitted and treated by
21 a Bosniak doctor. Do you know what his name is?
22 A. No. I just stated in my statement that on the way to hospital, we
23 encountered a doctor of Bosniak ethnicity. We talked briefly and then he
24 left. After that, we were taken to the surgery department, at least I
25 think it was the surgery department. I was taken care of by a nurse. She
1 helped me as much as she was able to help me, and we also briefly spoke to
2 another doctor who worked in this hospital.
3 Q. Do you know his name?
4 A. No, I don't know his name. It happened at the entrance to the
5 hospital, in the corridor. It was a very brief conversation. He didn't
6 dare talk to us very long, and we continued on our way after this
8 Q. Thank you very much for having answered my questions. I wish you
9 all the best in the future, wherever you may be.
10 A. Thank you, too.
11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. I have to come back to about five
12 issues where some clarity still is needed.
13 Questioned by the Court:
14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I beg your pardon already in advance if I missed
15 something during your statement. I recollect that on page 47 of your
16 statement, you described the story of your father being brought to the
17 camp, first to Trnopolje, then to Keraterm, and then page 47, this story
18 ends at line 19, when you confirmed that your father was retransferred to
19 the Trnopolje camp again. Could you please tell us about the fate of your
20 father after this retransfer to Trnopolje?
21 A. After this retransfer to Trnopolje, as he was leaving Trnopolje,
22 and this is the reason maybe why I need to give you a longer explanation,
23 this was actually the departure between a father and a son, he didn't know
24 where he would go. He didn't know about the fate of his other son, and I
25 wanted to tell him that if -- that he should try and find my wife and my
1 children once he reaches the free territory, which is what he did. And
2 after he arrived in Slovenia as a refugee, he underwent a surgery which he
3 had to undergo as a result of the beating he had sustained in the camp.
4 It was a surgery in the nose area. It didn't really work well so he had
5 to do another one. He's not a very healthy person. If the weather is
6 bad, his health condition is such that he experiences severe problems.
7 The doctors told him that he should install an alarm at home in case he
8 runs out of breath or has any problems. But we, his children, are trying
9 to do our best to take care of him. But he is a disabled person.
10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. A second issue is related to
11 Keraterm. In your testimony of 1994, page 22, first paragraph, I quote a
12 full paragraph. You said the following: "I remember about two nights
13 after the second shooting in Room 3, Kajin came to the front of room 2 and
14 was standing squeezing the bars with his hands. He was drunk and he was
15 crying. He told us that the shootings had been in retaliation for what
16 occurred in World War II. He also told us that one or two Serb soldiers
17 were killed in Hambarine and that was another reason for the shootings.
18 He told us that he did not agree with Chetnik politics, he had lost many
19 of his friends and he then threw his pistol away. A number of guards then
20 came and took him away." The first question is: Is this also your
21 testimony of today?
22 A. Yes. That's exactly what he said. And this is what I emphasised
23 in my previous testimony and in my statement. He did not wish to torture
24 people. He was in favour of fair trials. I don't know why I remember
25 this to this date. I liked him for that. I liked what he said, because
1 of all the torture that he had sustained and this is exactly what he said.
2 I have reported his exact words. He was drunk. He was crying. And the
3 large number of people in Room 3 were people whom he knew very well. The
4 guard who came and tried to take him away didn't manage to. He continued
5 talking and eventually he discarded his pistol and was finally taken away
6 by others. I think that many people in room 1 were also able to hear
7 this. It was not very far from them as well. Those were his word.
8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Did you meet Mr. Kajin later?
9 A. Later, during my detention, of course, we saw him from time to
10 time in the camp.
11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: In the years after your detention in the camp,
12 did you ever meet him again?
13 A. Here, in the courtroom. First time after my detention in the
14 camp, and his service there as a guard, we met him -- I met him here for
15 the first time in a proceedings against him.
16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. Thank you for this additional
17 confirmation. Then I have to turn to the question of the helicopters
18 coming in. It's a twofold question. In your testimony of 1994, page 3,
19 last paragraph and page 4, first paragraph, you stated the following: "On
20 one occasion, I saw a helicopter land in Balte. Balte is about one
21 kilometre from my home. I cannot recall the date but it was between 10
22 p.m. and 11 p.m. I first heard the helicopter and then I saw it in the
23 air and shortly after, saw it landing near the house of Duro Kozomara, a
24 Serb." Is this correct?
25 A. Yes.
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: "He was active in the SDS but I'm unaware what
2 function he held. I heard the engine being cut. I did not pay any more
3 attention to the helicopter. This was the only occasion I saw a
4 helicopter in Balte." Is this correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And then let's turn to -- I'm afraid the
7 question was still open after the examination and the cross-examination --
8 page 3, second-last paragraph, you stated in 1994, "In February or March,
9 1992, I saw and heard helicopters in the air during the night around
10 Kozarac. It was very rare for helicopters to be in this area during the
11 night. I heard the helicopters on almost nightly basis. I never saw a
12 helicopter land in Kozarac but it is my belief that they landed in Serb
13 villages surrounding Kozarac. I did not see any emblems on the
14 helicopters and I am unable to say for what they were being used." This
15 is your written statement in English. Please understand that I have to
16 ask you how do you yourself regard it as possible that during your
17 testimony yesterday, you were able to tell us that in these helicopters,
18 there were weapons and weapons were unloaded? Yes, please, first of all
19 try yourself to find an explanation for this distinction.
20 A. There are two aspects of the issue. There were frequent flights
21 of helicopters in this area. The military activity generally speaking had
22 intensified and then in the second part of this portion of my statement, I
23 was referring to a helicopter that I saw landing in the village of Balte.
24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Right. But wouldn't you agree that it would be
25 normal that if you saw, indeed, that in the helicopters there were weapons
1 and weapons were unloaded, that at that time you would have mentioned this
2 instead of saying, in general that you are unable to say for what they
3 were being used?
4 A. I never said that I had directly seen weapons being unloaded. In
5 order to reach the village of Balte, you have to pass through the entire
6 town of Kozarac and Muslim villages. No one ever observed any convoy of
7 vehicles or trucks carrying weapons in the direction of Balte. However,
8 when the attack on Kozarac started from the direction of the village of
9 Balte, the fire that was opened was mortar fire and fire opened from
10 various kinds of infantry weapons which means that those weapons could
11 reach Balte only by helicopter, not by land, and in my statement that I
12 gave after the war, I said that those helicopters had brought the weapons
13 in Balte and had armed the population, the Serb population in Balte,
14 including the one that I saw.
15 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this. And then finally, I'm fully
16 aware that already yesterday the Prosecutor asked you several times about
17 names of persons being responsible in the area of Kozarac, Prijedor, and
18 you mentioned names of Mr. Drljaca, Kovacevic and others. Now to start
19 the other way around, just to be quite clear and on the safe side, for the
20 transcript, did you ever before the 30th of April or later in 1992, have
21 heard the name of Dr. Stakic, being in his capacity of a physician or in
22 another capacity?
23 A. I don't think so.
24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Any other questions? Judge Fassi
25 Fihri? Judge Vassylenko? No, are there any additional questions
1 emanating from this line of questions of the judges or any questions by
2 the OTP?
3 MR. WAIDYARATNE: No, Your Honour.
4 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: This is not the case. Then I have to thank you
6 for all your efforts, not only for coming here, for also answering our
7 questions patiently and it's also for the judges to wish you all the best
8 and to try to overcome as soon as, and as far as it is possible, that what
9 you have experienced at that time, and we all hope that this can be one
10 small brick in the wall building up a better and safer society in your
11 home country. Thank you. You are excused finally for this case.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you too, Your Honours.
13 [The witness withdrew]
14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: If I remember correctly, the Office of the
15 Prosecutor has offered us now a video.
16 MR. KOUMJIAN: I promised that, but it turns out that the video,
17 the -- in order to get a good quality of those 15 minutes to get copies
18 for the Court, it will not be ready today. Possibly this afternoon. As I
19 mentioned to the legal officer this morning, we have some severe
20 scheduling problems I'd like to discuss with both the Defence and the
21 court, particularly regarding the translations of expert reports and I
22 would request a conference on that.
23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: This request for a 65 ter conference.
24 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, also Mr. Inayat, we can address this
25 at the conference but while he's here and is available and we have the
1 lists available that he can testify to the sourcing, ideally, it was my
2 intent to have one document prepared covering all of the exhibits, rather
3 than the six lists which also do not cover, I think, a few documents that
4 were obtained from witnesses outside of the lists but that would not be
5 ready today. So we can discuss it at the conference what would be the
6 best time for him to testify. He's available to testify today but we have
7 problems next week also with getting witnesses, which I will explain to
8 you. We may have holes in the schedule next week.
9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: No good news but let's face the problem
10 immediately. What is the most appropriate to have the 65 ter conference
11 in this courtroom? Can you agree with this?
12 MR. KOUMJIAN: My preference would be to do it in chambers, and
13 also the Defence. I think the informality would aid the resolution of
14 some of the issues and I also would like to have, ask one investigator to
15 be present who has been doing the scheduling of witnesses and she can
16 explain, and I'd also rather not do that publicly. She can explain some
17 of the problems various witnesses have in altering their schedule. One of
18 the problems is that at the end of the case we are very, very limited in
19 our choices of our witnesses and those remaining generally have scheduling
21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Fine. How can we then proceed? Could we meet
22 in my office at 11.00 sharp and I would ask for the presence of two French
23 interpreters, because, no doubt, it will take us longer than half an hour.
24 But then we should try to use -- to make use of the afternoon, and let's
25 try to do as if it would be an ordinary day. This would mean that we
1 could restart at 2.00. I am myself surprised by this development,
2 therefore I would ask all the other participants, also the interpreters to
3 protest immediately if there are some obstacles when we restart, say, at
4 2.00 and then proceed until 4.30 or 5.00. I think we have numerous
5 problems we can resolve only in courtroom. It's difficult to look through
6 the glass. Okay? I can see no open protest.
7 THE INTERPRETER: English interpretation says okay.
8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Okay. Thank you. Then let's proceed this way.
9 11.00 sharp in my office, as a formal 65 ter meeting in the presence of
10 the representative of the Registry and then the trial stays, as such,
11 stays adjourned until 2.00 sharp.
12 --- Break taken at 10.30 a.m.
13 --- On resuming at 2.05 p.m.
14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: It's a long time ago. I think it was the 1st of
15 August, 2002, Witness Sivac gave us the entire video, and it is ready to
16 be played now?
17 MR. KOUMJIAN: Correct. But just for clarification, 15 minutes of
18 the videotape that Mr. Sivac gave us has been copied. As you recall,
19 there was a tape of a trip of a group and other matters that were
20 extraneous with the 15 minutes relevant to events in Prijedor is prepared.
21 I guess the booth has a copy. I'm tendering now the copies for the Court
22 and Defence. And for the record, that's ERN number V0004001.
23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Did we attach it already to the one minute and
24 eight seconds an exhibit number?
25 MR. KOUMJIAN: Yes.
1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Shouldn't we maintain the same exhibit number
2 for the entire video or put a -1 to it?
3 MR. KOUMJIAN: That would make sense. Also this transcript and
4 video includes the minute and ten seconds or so of the accused speaking.
5 So we could substitute it or we could simply attach it an additional
7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. I think it's appropriate to give to the
8 video as such -1, and to the transcript -2.
9 Can we start the video?
10 [Videotape played]
11 THE INTERPRETER: [Voiceover]
12 "REPORTER: People from the Hambarine settlement located five
13 kilometres in the direction of Ljubija held up a vehicle with the Serbian
14 Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina army members. They killed two soldiers and
15 injured four. Rade Lukic and Radovan Milojica were killed and Ratko
16 Milojica and Sinisa Mijatovic were severely injured. The police were
17 prevented from pulling out the dead and injured and the army was forced to
18 open fire without destroying any facilities.
19 SINISA MIJATOVIC: I was sitting with another four comrades of
20 mine at the back seat of the vehicle. Then they cocked the rifle, which
21 he took from them and it fired. Then they opened fire at us from all
22 sides. The slaughter started. Ratko and I somehow managed to get out of
23 the vehicle. I sustained a number of injuries in the arms, legs, and
24 stomach area. Then I was lying behind the car, fearing that the car would
25 explode. They couldn't see that those two were dead, the dead bodies
1 there. They left towards (inaudible) report.
2 REPORTER: Who was firing at you.
3 SINISA MIJATOVIC: The so-called TO of that place was firing. They
4 were mostly Muslims, my school friends.
5 REPORTER: The Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality requested the
6 people from Hambarine to surrender former policeman Aziz Aliskovic and his
7 group, who carried out the attack on soldiers. The twelve o'clock
8 deadline was not observed. Half an hour after the deadline expired the
9 army of the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina launched an artillery
10 attack on Hambarine and cleaned up the area where the Green Berets had
11 been concentrated. The militant wing of the Party for Democratic Action
12 obviously did not wish to preserve peace in Prijedor.
13 SIMO MISKOVIC: There had been interparty agreements prior to this
14 incident and in all talks that were conducted between the SDS and the SDA,
15 the SDS mainly sent a strong message to all party leaderships in the
16 Prijedor municipality reminding them of their obligation and
17 responsibility to take care primarily of this town, these people, and not
18 to leave our children and the descendants with the traumas that were left
19 by our parents. However, the militant wing of the SDA most probably
20 didn't wish this to be implemented and it most likely had its own plans,
21 goals to realise and ambitions that had been realised in Sarajevo, Mostar,
22 Kupres, and so on. They also cautioned that this would not happen in the
23 area of Prijedor, but we have used all possible means, through talks, both
24 party talks and talks with people and prominent citizens, delegations were
25 coming two days before this incident or this conflict. A great number of
1 talks were held in all areas, with Muslim population, with the goal of
2 securing peace in this region and preventing any sort of conflict from
3 breaking out, regardless of solutions which will definitely come about at
4 the level of this local commune.
5 REPORTER: Sunday, May 24th. The reason -- reason has prevailed
6 in many local communes of Prijedor municipality. People are returning
7 illegally acquired weapons, either individually or in an organised manner.
8 The local communes of Donja Puharska, Rizvanovici, Biscani and the village
9 of Rakovcani can confirm this.
10 HAMZA KAPETANOVIC: We are talking about some 4 machine-guns. 50
11 per cent of the 49 barrels we have are automatic weapons. Those weapons
12 used to belong to the TO and the reserve police force and part of them was
13 acquired by citizens on an individual basis. We were informed today at
14 10.30 that these weapons ought to be returned to the barracks by 12.00 but
15 the deadline was extended to 1.00 and we collected everything and brought
16 it there. People brought them to the local commune and we brought them
17 here. Ever since this citizens' forum was established in Donja Puharska,
18 after the takeover of power, we have been doing everything in cooperation
19 with the local commune. We haven't done anything. We have even recently
20 kept guard together so nobody is missing a hair in Donja Puharska or in
21 the settlement with Serbian population which is bordering on ours with
22 predominantly Muslim population.
23 DZEVAD KADIRIC: We are in the local commune of Biscani. I am
24 Dzevad Kadiric.
25 REPORTER: I can see you are wearing a military uniform.
1 DZEVAD KADIRIC: I also think so. I don't mind it.
2 REPORTER: Tell us how the collection of weapons went and how many
3 barrels you have brought from the village.
4 DZEVAD KADIRIC: I have brought into the establishment amount I
5 was issued with, ammunition and how shall I put it, rifles and so on.
6 REPORTER: These are all weapons and ammunition of a unit,
7 detachment of the former TO.
8 DZEVAD KADIRIC: The unit, TO platoon, yes, independent platoon of
9 the Biscani local commune which is under the command of the Prijedor
10 municipal Territorial Defence.
11 REPORTER: Can you tell us what the situation like with other
12 weapons? There is information that there is a great number of illegally
13 acquired weapons and military equipment.
14 DZEVAD KADIRIC: What can I tell you? Firstly, I can assure you
15 that the information is not accurate. I cannot guarantee a hundred per
16 cent, nor would I want to, maybe someone does possess a small number of
17 weapons but they are a great minority, and this could only be the case for
18 quite light weapons like pistols and similar, if there is any, but I doubt
19 that there are any heavy weapons in the local commune of Biscani.
20 REPORTER: What is the amount? How many rifles and other weapons
21 have been brought into the barracks, and is that all from all those local
22 communes that were given the ultimatum until yesterday at 1800 hours?
23 CAPTAIN MILAN BARUDZIJA: These are not all the weapons, that is,
24 not from all the local communes. So far 54 rifles with ammunition and
25 other equipment that comes with them have been surrendered from the local
1 communes of Rakovcani and Rizvanovici. However, later, with the arrival of
2 the reserve platoon of the Territorial Defence and the police from the
3 Biscani local commune with the total number of 39 barrels and also with
4 the necessary number of other equipment that comes with these weapons.
5 Donja Puharska representatives have arrived just now, and from them we
6 shall take over the rest. To recapitulate, the total number of weapons
7 that have been surrendered so far is, as I said, 54 rifles from Rakovcani
8 and Rizvanovici and 39 barrels from Biscani.
9 REPORTER: While the handing over of weapons in the Prijedor
10 barracks strengthens optimism, armed conflict has occurred in Kozarac, a
11 settlement 10 kilometres away from Prijedor in the direction of Banja
12 Luka. Infiltrated groups of Green Berets with local extremists obstruct
13 the handover of weapons. Around 1400 hours, fire was opened at the
14 Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Hercegovina Army members from the village of
15 Jakupovici. Fighting continues in the afternoon and through the night.
16 Monday, May 25th, severe fighting is going on around Kozarac. Heavy
17 pressure exercised by the Serbian army and artillery fire forces numerous
18 extremists to withdraw. Hundreds of Green Beret members have surrendered
19 in the villages of Donji Jakupovici, Kevljani, Kozarusa, and the
20 surrounding hamlets. The local hodza in Kevljani organised the surrender
21 of all weapons in the village. The villagers were treated very correctly.
22 Serif Velic, from the village of Kevljani.
23 SERIF VELIC: On behalf of the Kevljani local commune I would like
24 to say and stress the fair conduct of these soldiers who have come here.
25 First they distributed bread and pates and then juices to the children and
1 in the end there was military bean stew for the young, women, and
3 REPORTER: Word has it that more than 1.000 Green Beret members
4 and their accomplices from the region of the Cazin Krajina and Croatia
5 have gathered in Kozarac proper. They are under the command of Becir
6 Medunjanin, of Albanian origin, whose group is preventing the ceasefire
7 and the surrender of weapons either going into battle or getting a bullet
8 in the head. There is no exact information regarding the losses on the
9 side of the Muslim armed formations but all estimates suggest that
10 casualties are numerous. May 26th, armed formations of the Muslim
11 extremists are completely surrounded. They do not show their willingness
12 to surrender weapons. At night they open sniper fire from Kamicani,
13 Kozarac, Trnopolje, Trnjine. The village of Jakupovici, until yesterday
14 one of the strongest Muslim strongholds, has been mopped up.
15 RADENKO DELIC: The situation after two days of negotiating and
16 persistent talks with them, they still refuse to surrender the weapons.
17 They have requested buses to take out the population, women, and children,
18 which means they are preparing themselves for heavier fighting than so
20 REPORTER: [Inaudible]
21 RADENKO DELIC: Women and children are, buses are ready to
22 transfer them.
23 OSTOJA MIODRAG: Muslims should be forced to respect the
24 authority, to respect the more powerful, their own children, because 1941
25 is long gone. Here along this street a 16-year-old Muslim escorted 50
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 people, people who were sent to and killed and slaughtered there. I think
2 that those times shall never come back. My son and the generation of
3 today, you, the young, shall never let anyone persecute you, kill you and
4 slaughter you.
5 REPORTER: Let this statement of Ostoja Miodrag, WWII veteran and
6 a gusle player from Potkozarje, be a message and a lesson. Today, May
7 27th, fighting still continues in and around Kozarac. Alija Izetbegovic's
8 policy and Zagreb's strong influence, which significantly intensified in
9 this Muslim settlement since political turmoil in Croatia began, have led
10 the population of Kozarac and its surroundings into the most horrifying
11 drama from which many shall not emerge. Unfortunately, the victims shall
12 also be those who are not to blame for the events happening in
14 RADE MUTIC: In the uniforms of the Green Berets, Serbian Republic
15 of Bosnia-Herzegovina army overpowered the leadership, entered the town
16 and forced the remaining dismembered formations of Muslim extremists to
17 change clothes and put on dimije, Turkish trousers, and run to the forests
18 of Kozara, while a considerable number of them have been captured. The
19 information regarding the fighting in Hambarine, Kozarac, Kozarusa, and
20 Kamicani is accessible only through the announcements of the Crisis Staff
21 and the secretariat of information, which are being broadcast on an hourly
22 basis on the local radio station. This way the public has been informed
23 that a considerable number of hirelings from other parts of the country,
24 who had already fought in the HOS Croatian Defence Forces and ZNG,
25 National Guard Corps, have been fighting on the side of Muslim extremists,
1 as well as a number of former officers and non-commissioned officers of
2 the former Yugoslav People's Army, who've had the most responsible
3 commanding positions and duties in those battles. The announcements also
4 inform the public that the members of the Green Berets have used all means
5 at their disposal to force local population into the fight until
6 extinction, using the innocent local population, women, and children, as a
7 human shield. The army, however, managed to pull part of the population
8 out of the encirclement and house them, and also to put out the fire,
9 which Muslim extremist had set around their own camp in the Kotlovaca
10 mountain lodge. Once the resistance of the Muslim paramilitaries in
11 Kozarac was quelled, many things became evident and many assumptions came
12 true regarding the long and fateful preparations for the war of
13 extermination into which Alija Izetbegovic first called up his own people,
14 encouraged by the support of the numerous European and world
15 administrators for churning out states. This way several large
16 underground shelters and depots were discovered, equipped with radio
17 stations and supplied with huge provisions of food and beverages, in
18 addition to more than a ton of medication, sufficient for one year of
19 warfare have not been on the market for several years.
20 PREDRAG LAKETA: We are talking with Milomir Stakic, president of
21 the Prijedor municipal Crisis Staff. Mr. President, please describe to us
22 the situation in the territory that is under your control.
23 MILOMIR STAKIC: Well, I can tell you and the viewers that the
24 whole territory of Prijedor municipality is under our control, which I can
25 confirm following the liberation of Kozarac. The town, Serbian
1 settlements and smaller enclaves with Muslim population have been under
2 our control since the takeover on the 30th of April, and now, after the
3 fall of Kozarac, the entire municipality is under our control. In Kozarac
4 itself, the operation of "cleansing," as the military call it, is still
5 going on, because those who have now stayed behind are the most extreme
6 ones and the professionals.
7 PREDRAG LAKETA: In the territory of Bosanska Gradiska
8 municipality, 127 Muslim extremists have been caught who tried to escape
9 to Croatia. In the settlement of Brdjani near Kozarac, there are about
10 1.000 members of the Green Berets and HOS who are sending word that they
11 do not intend to surrender. All the locals who had illegally possessed
12 weapons in the villages of Hrnici and Trnopolje handed them over to the
13 Crisis Staff of the Prijedor municipality except for the Trnopolje hamlet
14 of Karalici. However, they are completely surrounded by the armed
15 formations of the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina so that the
16 liberation of these places is soon expected.
17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. A special thanks for the booth for
18 this very marathon, one can see.
19 Let's now turn to --
20 MR. KOUMJIAN: I would formally offer the video and transcripts,
21 if it hasn't yet been formally admitted.
22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. Could we please have the original number
23 of the one minute and eight seconds? The exhibit number at that time
24 was --?
25 THE REGISTRAR: The one minute tape was S240. This tape will be
1 numbered S240-1, and the transcripts S240-1A and B.
2 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Objections? No objections. Therefore admitted
3 into evidence.
4 May I then ask Madam Registrar to read out from the Official
5 Gazette number 1, page number 1.
6 THE REGISTRAR: "Official Gazette of Prijedor municipality, 2001,
7 1-92, Wednesday, 20 May, 1992, number 1. Pursuant to article 12 of the
8 constitutional law on the implementation of the constitution of the
9 Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, (Official Gazette of the
10 Serbian people in BH) number 3-92, the Prijedor Municipal Assembly, at its
11 session held on 20 May 1992 adopted the following decision on
12 implementation of decisions and other regulations of Prijedor
14 Article 1. Until adoption of new decisions and other regulations,
15 the decisions and other regulations of Prijedor municipality adopted so
16 far that are in accordance with the constitution of the Serbian Republic
17 of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and are not in contradiction with the laws and
18 other regulations adopted by the Assembly of the Serbian people in Bosnia
19 and Herzegovina or the National Assembly will be applied.
20 Article 2. This decision becomes effective on the day of its
21 adoption. Number 01-023-26/92. Prijedor assembly, date 20 May 1992.
22 President of the municipal -- Dr. Milomir Stakic."
23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Could you then please be so kind to round up --
24 to read out number 17 on page 55 and 56.
25 THE REGISTRAR: "17. At its session held on 20 May 1991, the
1 Prijedor Municipal Assembly considered the request of EnergoPetrol,
2 Prijedor operational unit, as the legal representative of the federal
3 directorate for industrial products reserves, for assessment of general
4 interest pursuant to Article 15 of the law on expropriation, (Official
5 Gazette of the SRBH, number 12/87) and made the following ruling:
6 1: It is found to be of general interest to set up a protection
7 fence for the piping on Brezicani cadastral district land, to which end
8 total expropriation of the following cadastral plots can be carried out.
9 Cadastral plot number 2694/5 Zajednica community/field 5/?KL./ of an area
10 of 416 square metres, registered in plan number 595 of Brezicani
11 cadastral district (formerly cadastral plot 511/78) entered into cadastral
12 register number 186 of Brezicani cadastral district under possession of
13 Mina Kulasic and Hamdija Kulasic and others.
14 2: No appeal or administrative proceedings can be initiated
15 against this ruling. 06-473-35/91, Prijedor assembly, 20 May 1992.
16 President of the municipal blank Dr. Milomir Stakic/handwritten/PSI-40,
18 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And finally, from this volume, please, number
19 15. This is on page 53 to 54.
20 MR. LUKIC: Excuse me, Your Honour. Would it be possible for us
21 to check what the title on the original? Because the translation said
22 that Milomir Stakic was president of the municipal, and it shouldn't say
23 on the original that way. It should be the president of the Municipal
25 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Madam Registrar.
1 THE REGISTRAR: 15. Pursuant to Article 28 of the law on primary
2 schools (Official Gazette of the SRBH, number 39/9?) and Article 36 of the
3 law on secondary schools (Official Gazette of the SRBH number 39-/9?8),
4 the Prijedor Municipal Assembly, at its session held on 20 May 1992,
5 adopted the following decision on discontinuation of instruction in
6 primary and secondary schools of Prijedor municipality:
7 Article 1: Primary and secondary schools. In Prijedor
8 municipality, will discontinue instruction of the academic year 1991 to
9 1992 on 20 May 1992.
10 Article 2: This decision becomes effective on the day of its
11 adoption. Number 01-023-33/92. Prijedor. President of the Municipal
12 Assembly. Dr. Milomir Stakic. Date, 20 May 1992.
13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Mr. Koumjian, you wanted to comment?
14 MR. KOUMJIAN: Just this, Mr. Lukic, we do have and counsel should
15 have the original, and he is correct. The original, which I believe is
16 marked 273 or 4B, whatever number we're at, indicates on the last
17 decision, "Predsnjednik Skupstina Opstina". So I could stipulate, if
18 counsel is willing to, that it does indicate president of the Municipal
19 Assembly. 276B.
20 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: As regards the school, the last decision number
21 15, there was no translation problem you could identify immediately?
22 MR. LUKIC: That's right, Your Honour. No problems.
23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Okay. Thank you.
24 Then --
25 MR. KOUMJIAN: Also, the translations, though, I do have one
1 complaint on my part, is that they don't make any notation of the SR
2 following the name of Dr. Stakic, and you'll see in the originals all of
3 the decisions have "Dr. Milomir Stakic SR", and we've had testimony that
4 that means in his own hand, a common phrase used in Bosnia at the time.
5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Now the question goes to Madam
6 Registrar. How shall we proceed with the following documents? Should it
7 be read out in B/C/S, which would be preferable, because by doing so, we
8 could immediately point out what is added in handwriting. Could we do,
9 for this time, once again the same procedure? I see a nodding from the
10 B/C/S booth. Thank you for that. If the parties have no problem -- thank
11 you. If the parties agree, we can limit the reading out of the document
12 to the framework and not the listing up of all the enactments passed on
13 each and every day. No objections? Okay. Let's do it this way.
14 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
15 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We just discussed, please read out only the
16 framework, but emphasise what you can identify as handwriting, in special.
17 It was 65 ter number 297, which is - please help me - S number --?
18 MR. KOUMJIAN: 250.
19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: 250. It's distributed all to the courtroom.
20 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "Serbian Republic of
21 Bosnia-Herzegovina, Autonomous Region of Krajina, Prijedor municipality.
22 Reference number 01-023-, number illegible, 92-3. Presumably 28th of
23 July, 1992.
24 To: Municipal Assembly of Prijedor. Prijedor. Subject,
25 confirmation of decisions within the competence of the Municipal Assembly,
1 adopted by the Crisis Staff.
2 At its session of the 20th of May, 1992, the Municipal Assembly of
3 Prijedor adopted decision number 01-023-24/92 on the organisation and work
4 of the Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality. Article 2 of the above
5 decision stipulates that the Crisis Staff shall decide on matters within
6 the jurisdiction of the Municipal Assembly if the assembly cannot meet,
7 but has the duty to submit every decision it adopts for confirmation by
8 the Assembly as soon as the Assembly can meet. By Decision number
9 01-023-53/92, dated the 14th of July, 1992, the Crisis Staff was renamed
10 the War Presidency, retaining the same members and powers.
11 In the period between the 29th of May and the 24th of July, 1992,
12 the Crisis Staff and the War Presidency passed enactments, decisions,
13 orders, decisions and conclusions which are hereby submitted to the
14 Assembly for confirmation, as follows:
15 I - enactments passed on the 29th of May, 1992."
16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We said it's not necessary to read out all these
17 enactments. Please continue, then, on -- I don't know which is the B/C/S
18 page number, but in English you find, in the English version you find 6
19 stars. The same is true evidently in the B/C/S version, on page 13.
20 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] Last page in the B/C/S.
21 "The War Presidency hereby proposes to the Municipal Assembly that
22 it adopt a decision confirming all enactments (decisions, orders,
23 decisions and conclusions) made by the Crisis Staff of Prijedor
24 municipality and the War Presidency during the period between the 29th of
25 May and 24th of July, 1992, as follows:
1 On the basis of Article 3 of the Decision on the Organisation and
2 Work of the Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality (Official Gazette of
3 Prijedor municipality number 2/92), the Municipal Assembly of Prijedor, at
4 its session held in 1992, adopted the following decision:
5 1: All the enactments (decisions, orders, decisions and
6 conclusions) passed by the Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality and the
7 War Presidency during the period between the 29th of May and 24th of July
8 1992 are hereby confirmed.
9 2: This Decision shall come into effect on the day of its
10 adoption, and it shall be published in the Official Gazette of Prijedor
12 Number 01-023-(blank)/92.
14 Date: (Blank) 1992.
15 President of the Municipal Assembly, Dr. Milomir Stakic."
16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May we now turn to 65 ter number 314, which is
17 Exhibit S --?
18 THE REGISTRAR: S253.
19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Once again, please, -2 in the B/C/S version with
20 all handwriting attachments and remarks, as far as possible -- as
22 MR. KOUMJIAN: Just to clarify, because we have two B/C/S
23 versions --
24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I think we said yesterday the one is -1 and the
25 second is -2. Let's turn to -2, please.
1 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] In the upper right corner we
2 read, in handwriting, illegible, the last word Ranko.
3 Bishop's Diocesan office in Banja Luka.
4 78101 Banja Luka, PO box 93. Petra I. Karadjordjevica 64.
5 Telephone/fax: 07835984.
6 Written in hand on the right-hand side is the date, the 19th of
7 June, 1992, and underneath, the 6th of August, 1992. There is a signature
8 underneath. The first word reads Simo. The second one is illegible.
9 Mr. Simo Drljaca, chief of public security station Prijedor,
10 number 576/92, date August 11th, 1992.
11 Dear Sir, first of all, I would like to thank you for the
12 discussion I had in your company on the 4th of August, 1992, with
13 Mr. Stakic, president of the Municipal Assembly, Dr. Kovacevic, chairman
14 of the executive committee of the Municipal Assembly, and Colonel Arsic,
15 regarding the situation of Catholics in Prijedor municipality.
16 You promised me on that occasion that the reprisals against the
17 Catholic residents in your municipality, who, as you know, are very
18 peace-loving, would stop.
19 Since at the time you were not able to grant my request to visit
20 my priest, Father Stipo Sosic, the parish priest from Ljubija who has been
21 in the Omarska camp since the 15th of June, 1992, you promised to call me
22 within two days and let me know how he was and why he was in the camp at
23 all. Even though General Talic, the 1st Krajina Corps commander,
24 expressly promised to me on the 2nd of August this year that my priest
25 would be released immediately, I haven't to date, the 11th of August,
1 1992, received any information from you or any other competent authority
2 in your municipality about the detained, and, according to our
3 information, badly tortured priest.
4 I expect you, sir, to fulfil the promise given to me as soon as
5 possible and let me know what is happening to Father Sosic and when you
6 intend to release him from detention in the camp in which he has been
7 held, under the worst of conditions, for almost two months, although he
8 has not been found guilty of any crime.
9 Yours respectfully.
10 Signature handwritten.
11 Franjo Komarica."
12 Underneath we read Dr. Franjo Komarica, bishop of Banja Luka.
13 There is a stamp on the left-hand side, "bishop Diocesan office in
14 Banja Luka."
15 "Copies: Addressee, president of the Prijedor Municipal Assembly,
16 Milomir Stakic, General Talic, Banja Luka, Papal Nunciature Belgrade."
17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. We discussed during the admission
18 into evidence, this document briefly yesterday. May I ask the Defence
19 whether the content of this document is in fact contested or not to leave
20 the Trial Chamber the discretion to call Dr. Franjo Komarica as a witness
21 during the Prosecution's case, to confirm or not confirm what he has laid
22 down in this letter?
23 MR. OSTOJIC: Good afternoon, Your Honour. We will be able to
24 provide the Chamber with a definitive answer on that once we are able to
25 consult with our client, Dr. Stakic, which we anticipate will be done
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 tomorrow. So with all due respect, if we can delay in answering that
2 question on Monday, we'd be willing and able to provide you an accurate
3 answer on Monday morning, at the commencement of these proceedings.
4 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. Thank you for this. Because if not, no
5 doubt the principle of directness could bring us to the conclusion that
6 it's necessary to hear this bishop in person on this issue. Thank you.
7 Let's now proceed to document 341. And 65 ter number?
8 THE REGISTRAR: 65 ter number 341, numbered S259. We have two
9 versions of B/C/S.
10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: But here we have the same -- we had identical
11 ones, so therefore please start with -1.
12 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "Abridged minutes of the session
13 of the Prijedor Municipal Assembly held on the 27th of August, 1992 in the
14 hall of the Ljubija iron ore mine, starting at 0900 hours.
15 The session was chaired by Dr. Milomir Stakic, the president of
16 the Municipal Assembly.
17 The session was attended by 72 assemblymen, so the assembly was
18 able to hold valid debates and make valid decisions.
19 Before the agenda was adopted, assemblyman Bozo Maric reminded the
20 chairman that before the Assembly started work, suitable symbols of the
21 Serbian Republic should be obtained.
22 The following took part in the discussion preceding the adoption
23 of the agenda: Dragan Sidjak, Vinko Kos, Bosko Mandic, Dusko Vujinovic,
24 Dragan Savanovic, Milan Pilipovic, Dusan Kurnoga, Zdravko Jovic, Dragan
25 Mikanovic, Radoljub Glusac, Boro Babic, Dusko Baltic, Mile Mutic, Milan
1 Babic, Marinko Coric, Cedo Vila, Milan Andzic, Simo Miskovic, and Milan
3 The following agenda was adopted with 54 votes in favour and two
6 1: Draft decision on the confirmation of decisions issued by the
7 Crisis Staff, that is, the wartime presidency, in the period from the 29th
8 of May to the 24th of July, 1992;.
9 2: "
10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May I ask for clarification? The translation,
11 one can read on line 14, issued by the Crisis Staff, that is, the wartime
12 presidency. In our version, it reads: Crisis Staff and the wartime
13 presidency." What would be the accurate translation? Could we please
14 hear it for the transcript?
15 THE INTERPRETER: Your Honour, both are acceptable. It can also
16 be "and/or".
17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: How can we come to a better solution? Because
18 this can be of some importance for a decision.
19 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, perhaps for the record we can just put
20 in the original B/C/S. But if I could add an editorial comment --
21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please.
22 MR. KOUMJIAN: The evidence is, and perhaps Mr. Corin, who is our
23 linguist, can also, and historian, can expand on this. The Crisis Staff
24 and War Presidencies were the same bodies in Prijedor. There simply was a
25 change in name. So whether it is Crisis Staff or War Presidency or War
1 Commission, which it had that name, although not formally adopted for a
2 couple of days, it is the same body, simply different names for the same
3 rose, so to speak.
4 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I'm aware, because we heard this immediately
5 beforehand, when other decisions were confirmed. I was only surprised to
6 hear and to read "Crisis Staff and wartime presidency" and what was
7 apparently translated correctly now, Crisis Staff. That is wartime
8 presidency. I think we can live with this letter translation. Thank you.
9 So sorry for having interrupted you.
10 The Defence wants to comment on this?
11 MR. LUKIC: What I'm discussing, Your Honour, with my co-counsel
12 is that War Commission is actually not the same body.
13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Sorry. I didn't understand you.
14 MR. LUKIC: War Commission is not the same body as Crisis Staff
15 and War Presidency. There is some difference in, and that's obvious from
16 the documentation.
17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: But from former documents, I think we can,
18 without any problem, conclude that the Crisis Staff later was called War
19 Presidency. Is this correct?
20 MR. LUKIC: War Presidency, yes. But War Commission is different.
21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Right. Thank you.
22 May we then continue, please.
23 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] I believe we stopped at item 2.
24 "2. Draft decision on declaring abandoned property the property
25 of the state;
1 3. Draft decision on the allocation for temporary use of real
2 estate declared the property of the state;
3 4. Draft decision on the appointment of a commission for the
4 allocation for temporary use of real estate declared the property of the
6 5. Draft decision on material provisions for and other rights of
7 soldiers, disabled war veterans and civilian war invalids from the
8 military operations since the 17th of August, 1991;
9 6. Draft decision on the conditions and procedure for the
10 allocation of housing, granting of loans and other rights of participants
11 in the war since the 17th of August, 1991;
12 7. Draft decision on amendments to the decision on the conditions
13 and procedure for allocating for use housing at the disposal of the
14 municipality of Prijedor;
15 8. Draft decision on the election of the chairperson and members
16 of the commission for matters concerning soldiers and disabled war
18 9. Draft decision on local offices;
19 10. Draft decision on the budgets of the municipality of Prijedor
20 for 1992;
21 11. Draft decision on a municipal tax on persons employed abroad;
22 12. Draft decision on exempting from taxes and contributions
23 taxpayers who are reservists in the army;
24 13. Draft decision on appointing an Elections and Appointments
1 14. Draft decision on the election of judge-jurors at the Lower
2 Court in Prijedor;
3 15. Draft decision on appointing acting directors of primary
5 16. Draft decision on appointing a Commission to assess the
6 market value of land;
7 17. Draft decision on appointing a Commission to assess the
8 market value and the material value of buildings;
9 18. Information on the political and security situation on the
10 territory of the Municipality of Prijedor.
11 Before the Assembly proceeded according to the adopted agenda,
12 Simo Drljaca, the chief of the public security station, informed those
13 present of the content of a telex sent from the Banja Luka public security
15 I: Draft decision on the confirmation of decisions issued by the
16 Crisis Staff, that is, the wartime presidency, in the period from the 29th
17 of May to the 24th of July, 1992.
18 The president of the Municipal Assembly made some introductory
19 remarks, and Dusan Baltic, the secretary of the Municipal Assembly,
20 explained the reasons for the decision.
21 The following took part in the debate: Vinko Kos, Milomir Stakic,
22 Milan Pilipovic, Ranko Travar, Dragan Sidjak, Zdravko Jovic, Ratko Joves,
23 Milan Babic, Dragan Mikanovic, Boro Babic, Dusan Kurnoga, Srdjo Srdic,
24 Dragan Savanovic, Dusan Baltic, Simo Drljaca, and Milorad Panic.
25 The assemblymen unanimously adopted the decision on the
1 confirmation of decisions issued by the Crisis Staff and the wartime
2 presidency in the period from 29 May to 24 July 1992.
3 II: Draft decision on declaring abandoned property the property
4 of the state.
5 The president of the Municipal Assembly made some introductory
6 remarks and Slobodan Radulj, the public attorney, explained the reasons
7 for the decision.
8 The following took part in the debate: Dusan Kurnoga, Dusan
9 Baltic, Dr. Milomir Stakic, Zdravko Jovic, and Dragan Sidjak. After this,
10 the assemblymen unanimously adopted the Decision on declaring abandoned
11 property the property of the state.
12 III: Draft decision on the allocation for temporary use of the
13 real estate declared the property of the state.
14 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks.
15 The following took part in the debate: Vinko Kos, Milomir Stakic,
16 Dragan Savanovic, Milorad Zrnic, Slobodan Radulj, Zdravko Jovic, Bosko
17 Mandic, Dusko Baltic, and Bozo Maric. After this, the assemblymen reached
18 a unanimous decision on the draft text, with the proviso that in Article
19 2, the words "who did not participate in the armed rebellion" to be added
20 after the words "the Municipality of Prijedor".
21 IV: Draft decision on the appointment of a commission for the
22 allocation for temporary use of real estate declared the property of the
24 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks.
25 The following took part in the debate: Dragan Savanovic, Dusan
1 Baltic, Milomir Stakic, Vojo Pavicic and Vinko Kos. After this, the
2 assemblymen unanimously adopted the decision.
3 The following were appointed to the commission:
4 1. Mirko Utjesanovic, chairman of the commission, Ostoja Skrbic,
5 deputy chairman.
6 2. Radmila Djudic, graduate lawyer, member. Nada Gurlan,
7 graduate lawyer, deputy member.
8 3. Dijana Petkovic, surveyor, land surveyor, member. Milada
9 Jelicic, surveyor, deputy member.
10 4. (blank)." On the right side we read the following. "An
11 assemblyman from the territory of the local commune on whose territory the
12 real estate to be assigned is located.
13 5. (blank)." On the right we read: "A representative of the
14 local community on whose territory the real estate to be assigned is
16 V: Draft decision --"
17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Could we immediately proceed to point X.
18 THE INTERPRETER: "Draft decision on the budgets of the
19 municipality of Prijedor for 1992.
20 Ranko Travar, the secretary of the municipality approximately
21 secretariat for the economy and social services, made some introductory
22 remarks. The following took part in the debate: Dusko Vujinovic, Dr.
23 Milomir Stakic, Dragan Savanovic, Milorad Zrnic, Ranko Travar, Dragan
24 Sidjak, and Milan Pilipovic. After this, the assemblymen unanimously
25 adopted the decision on the budget of the municipality of Prijedor for
1 1992, with the conclusion that 'funds earmarked for the work of the SDP
2 and SRSJ may not be remitted to these parties for their use until they
3 disavow the standpoints of their leaderships in Sarajevo and until they
4 are constituted in Republika Srpska.
5 XI: Draft decision on a municipal tax on persons employed abroad.
6 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks, and Boro Babic,
7 the director of the municipal public revenue administration, explained the
8 reasons for the decision.
9 The following took part in the debate: Dragan Sidjak and Boro
10 Babic. After this, the assemblymen unanimously adopted the decision on a
11 municipal tax on persons employed abroad, with the conclusion that the
12 director of the municipal public revenue administration is to investigate
13 the possibility of payments being made in German marks.
14 XII: Draft decision on exempting from taxes and contributions tax
15 payers who are reservists in the army and police force.
16 Boro Babic, the director of the municipal public revenue
17 administration, made some introductory remarks and explained the reasons
18 for the decision.
19 The following took part in the debate: Dragan Sidjak and Dr.
20 Milomir Stakic. After this, the assemblymen unanimously adopted the
21 decision on exempting from taxes and contribution tax payers who are
22 reservists in the Army and police force.
23 XIII: Draft decision on appointing an Elections and Appointments
25 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks, and Dusan
1 Baltic, the secretary of the Municipal Assembly, explained the reasons for
2 the decision. The following took part in the debate: Dr. Milomir Stakic,
3 Simo Miskovic, Dragan Savanovic, and Ranko Gnjatovic. Then the
4 assemblymen adopted, with nine votes against and seven abstentions, the
5 decision on appointing the commission.
6 The following were appointed to the commission:
7 1. Dragan Savanovic, chairman of the commission. 2. Milan
8 Pilipovic. 3. Slobodan Balaban. 4. Slavko Antonic. 5. Brane Koncar.
9 6. Vinko Kos. 7. Mirko Sarac. 8. Miljenko Jelisavac. 9. Cedo Vila."
10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Then can we finally come to 18 and
11 until the end of the document.
12 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "XVIII: Information on the
13 political and security situation on the territory of the municipality of
15 After some introductory remarks by Colonel Vladimir Arsic and the
16 chief of the public security service, Simo Drljaca, the following took
17 part in the debate: Dr. Milomir Stakic, Dragan Sidjak, Dusan Kurnoga,
18 Dusko Vujinovic, Vinko Kos, Ratko Joves, Dragoje Jelicic, Milorad Zrnic,
19 Dragan Mikanovic, Colonel Arsic, Simo Drljaca, Ranko Nikic, Ranko
20 Gnjatovic, Ninoslav Maric, Simo Miskovic, and Marinko Coric.
21 After the debate, the following conclusions were reached:
22 1. That the regional staffs submit information about any
23 occurrences of looting or other irregularities in their areas;
24 2. That an item on the agenda of the next session of the assembly
25 be devoted to the political and security situation in the area of the
1 municipality of Prijedor.
2 The chairperson concluded the work of the session at 2000 hours.
3 President of the Municipal Assembly, Dr. Milomir Stakic.
4 SR, the accuracy of the copy is certified by secretary of the
5 Municipal Assembly, Dusan Baltic."
6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. May we now to Kozarski Vjesnik of 25
7 September 1992, which was 65 ter number 363 and that's now S --?
8 THE REGISTRAR: S264, Your Honour.
9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. We have already the readable version.
10 Please, only the article "the police is not the army".
11 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "The police is not the army."
12 THE REGISTRAR: Just a minute, because the booth does not have a
13 readable version. Can somebody lend an extra copy? The French booth
14 needs a B/C/S version. Thank you.
15 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "The police is not the army.
16 Dissatisfaction with the unit's commanding personnel was given as
17 the pretext, but the real reasons surfaced later on. What did the
18 policemen ask for, and what did the municipal authorities offer?
19 Displeased with command of their unit, 127 members of a recently
20 formed police battalion returned without authorisation from the Han
21 Pijesak front on Thursday, the 17th of September. The very next day,
22 Friday, the policemen met representatives of both the civilian and
23 military municipal authorities and presented their demands, which were
24 listed as eight items. This was the reason why the Municipal Council of
25 the People's Defence planned to convene on Monday, take a position, and
1 propose a solution. The same topic was the subject of yet another meeting
2 on Tuesday, where many of the same people were present.
3 The assembled policemen were informed about the fate of their
4 demands by the president of the Assembly and the chairman of the executive
5 board of Prijedor municipality. The president of the SDS municipal board,
6 Dr. Milomir Stakic, was also present. The president of the municipal
7 parliament explained to the policemen present that their first demand, an
8 urgent session of the Municipal Assembly, was denied because the assembly
9 does not discuss such matters. Actually, such matters are under the
10 jurisdiction of the People's Defence Council, which, in any case, had
11 immediately adopted a position. The second demand, placing all the
12 policemen who deserted the front on stand-by status, was accepted. The
13 third demand was to bring back all the rest of the police battalion from
14 Han Pijesak. Stakic explained that such things were not under the
15 jurisdiction of either the municipal civilian or military authorities
16 because the decision on the formation of the police battalion had been
17 issued by the Government of Republika Srpska and thus only the Cabinet
18 could decide on its deployment to or its withdrawal from the front. A
19 similar response was given concerning the fourth demand, that in future,
20 no more than 10 per cent of the population fit for military service from
21 Prijedor municipality should be assigned to areas of military operations
22 in the former BH. Having remarked that such a decision exceeds the
23 authority of the municipality, Milomir Stakic informed those present that
24 the Prijedor civilian government had already addressed the republican
25 government with the idea of having each municipality proportionately
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 represented in the military, based on the number of people of Serbian
2 nationality in each municipality.
3 The answer to the fifth demand, the removal of Captain Slijepcevic
4 from his commanding post, was that the civilian authorities could not
5 interfere with the staffing policy of the army, but that Colonel Arsic had
6 been asked to reassess the commanding performance of the aforementioned
7 officer. In their sixth demand, the policemen wanted to know why the
8 prisoners from Keraterm, Omarska, and Trnopolje had been released. Stakic
9 indicated the two key reasons which had motivated the government in Pale
10 to make such a decision: Pressure from international public opinion and
11 official policy, and the steep cost of maintaining the prisons. The last
12 demand, for a definition of the relationship between the civilian
13 authorities, the army, and the police, received comment from the President
14 of the Municipal Assembly. He said that legislative regulation already
15 did exist, but that one should not expect from a state, such as Krajina,
16 still in the process of forming, to resolve everything ideally from the
17 start. Mico Kovacevic, president of the municipal government,
18 supplemented the explanations given by Dr. Milomir Stakic, and this part
19 of the meeting concluded with a proposal that the policemen who had
20 deserted the front should choose one of the commanders at the Gradacac
21 front and join his forces.
22 In the course of the discussion and comments concerning positions
23 taken by the municipal authority, a great deal of what had been obvious at
24 first, but which was at the heart of the problem, which ended with their
25 leaving Han Pijesak, suddenly became clear. The police is not the army,
1 and should not go to the front but should stay to do its own job, this
2 being a common opinion of the summoned members of the police battalion.
3 Requests were heard for an explanation concerning the method of selection
4 of which policemen were to stay in town and which were to be sent to the
5 front. The opinion was also voiced that intolerance between the civilian
6 and the military police, as well as between the police and the army, had
7 already been smouldering for quite some time. The army apparently
8 believed that the police had a privileged position and a less difficult
9 and dangerous role in this war. A proposal cropped up that the Military
10 Prosecutor should determine to what extent the decision to reassign the
11 policemen to the army had been based on legal grounds. There was also an
12 isolated opinion that the only way for these policemen to avoid being
13 labelled as cowards and deserters was to return to Han Pijesak. Simo
14 Miskovic, SDS leader, reminded those present that sacrifices had to be
15 made for the Serbian cause and that there was no turning back from the
16 road they had taken. In Prijedor, we will continue struggling to ensure
17 that the burden of creating a new state is shared equally by all of its
18 future citizens, said Miskovic, and appealed to the policemen not to allow
19 their action to become a source of conflict among Serbs.
20 Despite all the bitterness, distrust, and divisiveness in
21 perceptions of the same problem, and significant disagreement concerning
22 desires and ambitions even among the very policemen who had deserted the
23 front, the meeting ended with a conclusion accepted by a close vote of
24 those present. All 127 newly recruited soldiers of the Republika Srpska
25 Army will turn to Han Pijesak."
1 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, I'd request just one clarification on
2 the translation. It's come up before, but in the second paragraph,
3 referring to a body that's translated in this article as the People's
4 Defence Council, in the English translation, the seventh line, going over
5 to the eighth. I would ask again the booth to confirm that this can also
6 be translated as the National Defence Council. In some of our documents
7 it's translated as National Defence Council, in some the People's Defence
8 Council, but I believe it's the same word in B/C/S that we're talking
10 THE INTERPRETER: Yes, that's true.
11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this clarification.
12 May we then finally come to 65 ter 391, and here we can limit
13 ourselves to the first part, because we are, of course, interested in
14 crime in general, and so on, but not on the crime dates of Prijedor and
15 other municipalities at that time. From page 1 to 8, first paragraph,
16 please, in the English version.
17 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "Republika Srpska, ministry of
18 internal affairs, Security Services Centre, Banja Luka, public security
19 station, Prijedor.
20 Report on the work of the Prijedor public security station during
21 the last nine months of 1992.
22 Prijedor, January 1993.
23 A) creation of conditions for the functioning of the public
24 security station.
25 After the last multiparty elections, the SDA party assumed power
1 in Prijedor and held, in addition to a large number of departments in the
2 municipality, the most important positions in the public security station.
3 In these circumstances, it proved very difficult to work on the
4 organisational structure and preparation of personnel for the Serbian
5 ministry of internal affairs. In view of the fact that the chief of the
6 public security station in Prijedor and commander of the police station
7 for the control and safety of traffic were both SDA people, these
8 activities had to be covert and involve a very limited number of
9 personnel. The work was carried out outside the station premises, often
10 using the premises of the cultural centre in Cirkin Polje. The focus of
11 the work was on the covert organisation and formation of "shadow" police
12 stations and the arming and equipping of the personnel. In this manner,
13 13 police stations were established, with a total staff of about 1.500.
14 Weapons, ammunition, and other materiel were acquired from various
15 sources. The army was the primary source, and secretly, mostly at night,
16 collected, transported, stored, and distributed to personnel for
17 homekeeping and use.
18 In these circumstances, and at a time when ethnic maps were being
19 drafted which were placing Prijedor in Cazinska Krajina, activities were
20 launched to prepare for a takeover by force. These activities gained
21 momentum in April, and the actual date of the takeover was forced upon us
22 by the Presidency of the then Socialist Republic of BH, when they issued
23 the order to attack military installations and convoys. As a result, in
24 the night between the 29th and 30th of April, 1992, following very
25 detailed preparations and pursuant to the relevant decision of the
1 Executive Committee of the Serbian municipality of Prijedor, an organised
2 takeover of power was embarked upon. About 400 policemen assembled in the
3 cultural centre of Cirkin Polje, and at 0400 hours they took control of
4 the important sites in the town, which made possible the takeover of all
5 leading functions in the Municipality, the municipal administration
6 organs, and the important companies.
7 After the takeover, all personnel of Croatian and Muslim ethnicity
8 were summoned to interviews by the Chief of the SJB, and the option of
9 signing declarations of allegiance to Republika Srpska was explained to
10 them. They were all given a reasonable time limit, and in response to
11 various requests - mostly from the police squads of Ljubija and of Kozarac
12 - this time limit was extended twice. Additionally, interviews were also
13 conducted with a number of Serbian members of the staff who had not been
14 explicit enough in defining their future work engagement. Through these
15 interviews, and talks with representatives of the local authorities and
16 political leaders in areas populated mostly by Muslims and Croats, a
17 process of differentiation took place so that it became evident who among
18 the staff would be willing to sign a loyalty oath, and on the other hand,
19 a number of Serbian staff were given a period of three or six months
20 respectively, to show that they can work well and prove their worth in
21 this new situation, which would secure their further engagement within the
22 Public Security Station.
23 These activities were interrupted by the outbreak of conflict,
24 which started on the 22nd of May, 1992, when Muslim extremists attacked
25 five military conscripts in the village of Hambarine, and gained intensity
1 when a military convoy was attacked in the village of Jakupovici on the
2 24th of May, 1992. The conflict escalated and the policemen of Muslim
3 ethnicity engaged fully on the Green Berets' side in the area of Kozarac,
4 while many others who had been working in the town or in Ljubija and
5 living in the areas populated primarily by non-Serbs made their services
6 available to the enemy, or returned the equipment and weapons they had
7 been issued by this Public Security Station. Three police employees
8 signed the loyalty oath to Republika Srpska: one Ukranian and two persons
9 from mixed marriages. These three are working in the Public Security
10 Station in Prijedor to this very day. In addition to them, two police
11 reservists of Croatian ethnicity signed the loyalty declaration, but one
12 of them left his unit when it was fighting at Orasje and was subsequently
13 discharged from the reserve police force.
14 Until the 4th of April, 1992, a total of 453 people were employed
15 in the Public Security Station in Prijedor: 145 on the active force and
16 308 on the reserve force.
17 After the 4th of April, 1992, an organisational and functional
18 restructuring of the Public Security Station was carried out with the
19 active involvement of about 20 people, for the most part executives from
20 the crime police and other services in the station. The number increased
21 significantly in May, since with the takeover of the 29th of April, 1992,
22 the covert mode of operation could be completely abandoned. The number of
23 employees in the public security station of Prijedor fluctuated as
25 April: 145 active, 308 reserve, a total of 453
1 May: 145 active, 1.447 reserve, a total of 1.663
2 June: 148 active, 1.607 reserve, a total of 1.755
3 July: 153 active, 1.459 reserve, a total of 1.612
4 August: 171 active, 1.383 reserve, a total of 1.554
5 September: 177 active, 1.396 reserve, a total of 1.573
6 October: 180 active, 995 reserve, a total of 1.175
7 November: 185 active, 1.004 reserve, a total of 1.199
8 December: 184 active, 950 reserve, a total of 1.134
10 B) Participation of the members of the station in combat
12 In our Municipality, combat operations commenced on the 22nd of
13 May, 1992. Employees of this Station actively participated in these
14 operations, primarily members of both the active and the reserve forces of
15 the police. Combat activities were at their most intense in the areas of
16 Kozarac, Kozarusa, Trnopolje, Kamicani, Rizvanovici, Biscani, Hambarine,
17 Zecovi, Carakovo, Kurevo, Raljas, Cela, and the town of Prijedor
18 itself. Eleven policemen were killed in combat, and 25 were lightly or
19 seriously wounded. After these operations, the policemen engaged
20 in intensive mopping-up activities, apprehending and debriefing certain
21 individuals who could be connected to enemy activity in this area. Once
22 the situation stabilised and the focus of combat shifted to other areas,
23 police officers were dispatched to other battlefields, including: Kotor
24 Vares, between the 24th of August and the 24th of September, 1992, 5
1 Below there is a sign. It's an "X." It reads as follows:
2 Radenko Djapa on the 30th of April, 1992; Rajko Bilbija on 9th of
3 May, 1992; Zeljko Gnjatovic on 30th of May; Dusko Lukic on the 30th of
4 May; Mladen Vlacina on the 30th of May; Branko Djuricic on the 30th of
5 May; Dario Davidovic on the 31st of May; Borislav Zujic, the 23rd of July;
6 Milan Curguz on the 23rd of July; Milenko Gojic on 23rd of July; and
7 Milenko Katana on 10th August, 1992."
8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: For the purposes of the transcript, it should be
9 fixed that this is a footnote to the sentence saying that 11 policemen
10 were killed in combat.
11 I think we can proceed immediately on page 5, to the last
12 paragraph, starting with "three collection centres."
13 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] Page 4 of the B/C/S version.
14 "Three collection centres were established in the territory of our
15 municipality, that is, Keraterm, Trnopolje, and Omarska. Several
16 thousands people passed through these centres, and about 6.000 informative
17 interviews were conducted with them. Until the 21st of August, 1992, 187
18 police employees were involved in guard duties in these centres. Except
19 for Trnopolje, all other reception centres were dismantled on the 21st of
20 August, 1992, as there were no further security requirements for them.
21 The Trnopolje reception centre, however, remained in place until
22 November. In addition to women and children, there was a large
23 concentration of Muslim men fit for military service there, including
24 persons who had spent some time in Omarska and Keraterm because of their
25 direct or indirect involvement in armed rebellion. As several convoys
1 were organised for the transportation of these persons in the direction of
2 Skender Vakuf, Bugojno, Karlovac, and Gradiska, our policemen took part
3 in the escort and security details provided for the convoys.
4 The following data reveal how important the participation of
5 policemen employees and other authorised employees of the Public Security
6 Station in Prijedor was for the combat operations:
7 - 2 active and 11 reserve policemen were killed, or a total of 13
8 - 5 active and 20 reserve policemen were seriously wounded, or a
9 total of 25
10 - 6 active and 36 reserve policemen were lightly wounded, or a
11 total of 42.
12 Total casualties: 13 active and 67 reserve policemen, a total of
14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Finally, to conclude, this last paragraph of the
15 version ... [Microphone not activated] [Court reporter's note: Last
16 paragraph of page 6 in the English version]
17 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "In addition to Croatian and
18 Muslim employees who did not sign the declaration of loyalty to Republika
19 Srpska during the last two months of 1992, four authorised employees were
20 also removed from the service: one for taking part in the commission of a
21 crime and three for abandoning their positions on the front without
23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this. This concludes the
24 reading out of documents for today. I have seen that there is some
25 surprise from the side of the OTP, some new documents to be distributed
2 MR. KOUMJIAN: Yes. Well, there is the spreadsheet that was
3 created by one of our team members, which concerns documents that we
4 contend contain the signature of Dr. Stakic. However, this was done on a
5 computer in colour, and I'm going to try to obtain colour copies. If Your
6 Honours like, I can give the Court and the Defence the copies we have now,
7 but I'm going to ask that colour copies be made.
8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: This would be kind. Thank you.
9 MR. KOUMJIAN: I also wanted to inform the Defence that -- they
10 asked about Mr. Inayat had said something in his previous testimony about
11 an index of documents seized. I asked him about that index, and he
12 indicated that he would estimate 600 or 700 pages. We could print that
13 out or, perhaps if the Defence would prefer, I might see about obtaining
14 that electronically for them.
15 MR. OSTOJIC: We'll accept it in any form. Electronically would
16 be preferred, but whichever form is available.
17 MR. KOUMJIAN: I'll try to have that available, and I'll call the
18 Defence tomorrow whether we can pass that on electronically.
19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Let's call tomorrow labour day,
20 meeting the parties, try to overcome obstacles, to find some resolutions
21 on problems in preparation of the statement, the testimony, and the
22 cross-examination of Mr. Inayat, which will be held on Monday.
23 MR. KOUMJIAN: One more document arriving. That's the French
24 translation of the diagram is now available, of the diagram of the
25 Keraterm camp. That's S277C.
1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The trial stays adjourned until Monday, 9.30.
2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.01 p.m.,
3 to be reconvened on Monday, the 2nd day of
4 September, 2002, at 9.30 a.m.