Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 313

 1                           Thursday, 25 February 2010

 2                           [Pre-Trial Conference]

 3                           [Open session]

 4                           [The accused entered court]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.

 6             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Good afternoon to everybody in the courtroom and

 7     outside -- and to those outside watching and listening to this trial.

 8             Could the Registrar call the case, please.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  Thank you, and good afternoon, Your Honours.

10     This is case number IT-05-88/2-PT, the Prosecutor versus Zdravko Tolimir.

11             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.

12             Before we start the conference, I would like to ask you,

13     Mr. Tolimir -- Mr. Tolimir, I would like to ask you if you can hear the

14     proceedings in a language you understand, that means if you receive

15     proper translation through your earphones.  Thank you.

16             Please, Mr. Tolimir, be reminded that you should indicate to the

17     Chamber immediately if there are any problems in this respect during the

18     hearings at any time.

19             Now I would like to ask for appearances, first for the Office of

20     the Prosecutor.

21             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Good afternoon, Mr. President, Your Honours.  My

22     name is Peter McCloskey.  Good afternoon, General Tolimir, Mr. Gajic.

23     With me today are the lawyers that will be trying the case with me, and

24     starting from behind me this is Mr. Nelson Thayer, and then

25     Mr. Kweku Vanderpuye, and Mr. Rupert Elderkin.  And very importantly, our

Page 314

 1     case manager, Janet Stewart.  Thank you.

 2             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.

 3             And now the Defence.

 4             THE ACCUSED:  Thank you.  [Interpretation] Zdravko Tolimir,

 5     that's me, and this is my legal assistant, Aleksandar Gajic.  May all the

 6     participants in this conference -- may God help all those who are

 7     participants in the proceedings and those who will be following the

 8     proceedings.  May God bless you all and grant you wisdom, and may kind

 9     angels follow us in these proceedings through to the end.  May all of us

10     here proceed in accordance with our conscience, truth, and justice.  May

11     all of us be saved.  I love Christ and prefer to live in Christ than I

12     do -- I prefer to live in Christ than I do in my own body.

13             I hope that we will open these proceedings in accordance with the

14     will of God and that it will be useful for our souls and kind to God, and

15     I hope that all of us shall preserve our faith in Jesus Christ and

16     preserve the purity of our lives.  May I drink from this chalice in

17     accordance with the will of God.

18             Thank you, may God bless you all.

19             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much, Mr. Tolimir.

20             I would like to refer to the Chamber's decision of the 22nd of

21     February, this year, by which the Chamber ordered that

22     Mr. Aleksandar Gajic, as the legal advisor of the accused may, be present

23     in the courtroom during the Pre-Trial Conference and the subsequent court

24     proceedings.

25             I would like to note that the last Status Conference in this case

Page 315

 1     was held on the 16th of December, 2009.  Two days later, on the 18th of

 2     December, last year, the President of this Tribunal issued an order

 3     assigning Judges to a case before the Tribunal which defined the

 4     composition of the current Bench.  With me are

 5     Judge Antoine Kesia-Mbe Mindua seated to my right and

 6     Judge Prisca Matimba Nyambe seated to my left.

 7             No longer with us is Judge Kimberly Prost who was -- who, as a

 8     pre-trial Judge for over two and a half years, prepared the case for

 9     trial.  On behalf of the whole Chamber, I would like to thank her for her

10     effective and fruitful work.

11             We have assembled today in order to prepare the trial in this

12     case which will commence tomorrow in the afternoon with the opening

13     statement of the Prosecution.  The purpose of today's hearing is to allow

14     us to deal with a number of matters pursuant to Rule 73 bis of our Rules

15     of Procedure and Evidence.  As it currently stands, the Chamber has no

16     reason to call upon the Prosecution to shorten the estimated length of

17     the examination-in-chief of any witness pursuant to Rules 73 bis

18     paragraph (B) of the Rules.  However, the Chamber may raise this issue at

19     a later stage of the proceedings if it deems it appropriate to do so.

20             Now I would like to turn to Rule 73 bis, paragraph (C) of the

21     Rules.  This concerns the total number of witnesses the Prosecution may

22     call and the time available for the Prosecution for presenting evidence.

23     I note that the Prosecution's motion pursuant to Rule 92 bis filed on the

24     13th of February last year is still pending.  The Chamber will issue a

25     decision in due course, but for today I would like to ask the Prosecution

Page 316

 1     if there are any submissions in this regard.

 2             MR. McCLOSKEY:  No, Mr. President, nothing further.

 3             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.

 4             The Chamber notes that it didn't invite the Prosecution pursuant

 5     to Rule 73 bis paragraph (D) to reduce the number of counts or to fix the

 6     number of crime sites or indictments.  Neither did the Chamber pursuant

 7     to 73 bis paragraph (E) direct the Prosecutor to select the counts in the

 8     indictment on which to proceed.  Taking into account its discretion in

 9     this respect, the Chamber has no reason to deal with this matter.

10             Now I turn to the motions currently pending before this Chamber.

11     First, the Prosecution's 92 bis motion filed on the 13th of February,

12     2009.  As I already have indicated, the Chamber will issue its decision

13     in due course.  Then the Prosecution's supplementary notice of disclosure

14     of expert witness reports filed confidentially on the 26th of November

15     last year.  The Prosecution's motion to amend the witness list and

16     exhibit lists and for continuance of protective measures filed

17     confidentially on the 15th of December, 2009.  Then the Prosecution's

18     motion to amend the witness list and for disclosure of an expert report

19     filed on the 8th of January, 2010.  The Prosecution's motion to amend the

20     witness list and for disclosure of an expert report filed on the 26th of

21     January, 2010.  The accused's request for the Chamber to order the

22     Prosecution to act in accordance with the -- its obligations proceeding

23     from the Chamber's decision of the 25th of November, 2009, submitted on

24     the 8th of February, 2010.  Further, the Prosecution's motion to amend

25     the witness list, admission of evidence pursuant to Rule 92 ter, and

Page 317

 1     protective measures, filed on the 11th of February, 2010.  The accused's

 2     information and request for the Trial Chamber submitted on the 12th of

 3     February, 2010.

 4             Finally, still pending is the Prosecution's motion requesting

 5     permanent counsel for the accused, for which the Chamber will now issue

 6     an oral decision as follows.  The Chamber is seized of the Prosecution's

 7     motion requesting appointment of permanent counsel for accused -- for the

 8     accused, Tolimir, filed on the 29th of April, 2008, and two responses

 9     from the accused filed in English on the 19th of May and the 2nd of June,

10     2008.  Considering that the reasons stated in the motion for imposing

11     counsel do not appear to the Chamber to be pertinent at this time, the

12     motion is hereby dismissed without prejudice.

13             However, in the interests of justice, the Chamber finds it

14     appropriate to take this opportunity to remind you, Mr. Tolimir, that the

15     new phase of the proceedings that we are about to enter, the trial phase,

16     will likely about very demanding on you and your legal team.  As a

17     self-represented accused, your role will be very different than that of a

18     represented accused before this Chamber.  While you will have access to

19     your legal team during the proceedings as well as the possibility of

20     administrative support from the Registry's pro se liaison office, the

21     practicalities of trial will likely limit your ability to consult

22     extensively with either during the hearings.

23             As a self-represented accused, you will be held on the same

24     standards as any counsel practicing before this Tribunal.  This means

25     that you must be prepared to address issued as they arise, whether in the

Page 318

 1     context of cross-examination, objections from the opposing party, or

 2     questions from the Bench.  These proceedings will demand your thorough

 3     preparation, full attention, and the most efficient use of all of our

 4     time and resources.

 5             Furthermore, if at any time you feel as though you are unable to

 6     adequately conduct your own defence, you may engage counsel.

 7             Lastly, I wish to remind you that pursuant to Rule 45 ter, the

 8     Trial Chamber may, if it decides that it is in the interests of justice,

 9     instruct the Registrar to assign counsel to represent your interests.

10     The Chamber therefore will closely monitor your conduct in this trial and

11     any impact it may have on the progress of this trial.

12             Mr. Tolimir, do you wish to address the Chamber in this respect?

13             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  First of

14     all, I should like to thank you for allowing my legal advisor,

15     Aleksandar Gajic, to participate -- to attend all the sessions, including

16     this conference, and I thank you as the Chamber for your decision.

17             I would like to raise the following request.  The Pre-Trial

18     Chamber should allow my legal advisor, Aleksandar Gajic, to take part on

19     my request in the presentation of legal submissions.  I should like him

20     to deal with the legal matters in this case, and I seek your leave for

21     this.  I should also like him to take part in any other courses of

22     action, of which you will be notified well in advance at my request.

23     Perhaps I should like him to be involved in the examination of witnesses,

24     just as it was granted to Mr. Karadzic and Mr. Djordjevic.  If I get your

25     leave for this, I would advance you of -- I would notify you of this well

Page 319

 1     in advance.  So I'm merely seeking what has been granted to other

 2     accused.  I have taken notice of what you have just told me.  My legal

 3     advisor and I are consulting each other all the time.  We are working

 4     together, and neither of us want to make any mistakes.  He would like to

 5     provide me with any advice that I may need, just as provided for in

 6     Article 21, para 4 of the Statute of the ICTY.  Thank you.

 7             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you, Mr. Tolimir.

 8             Would the Prosecution have a word?

 9             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Yes, Mr. President.  The Prosecution did not --

10     do not object to Mr. Gajic taking a role in legal matters and legal

11     submissions, and at this stage the rest of the request is fairly broad

12     regarding questioning of witnesses and other items.  I don't immediately

13     have any problem with that, but I think it would be a good idea if that

14     was put on paper and the citations that he's referring to of other cases

15     should be noted to us all.  But I would leave that into the -- as it is

16     your discretion regarding the rest of it, I would prefer to see it and

17     see the citations about asking questions and things.  But as for legal

18     submissions, that would be helpful, no problem whatsoever.

19             The other issues regarding questioning witnesses, I would like a

20     little more time to reflect on.  That's the first I've heard of that.

21                           [Trial Chamber confers]

22             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Tolimir, the position of the Chamber at the

23     moment is I think quite clear, and you can read it in our written

24     decision, that Mr. Gajic is allowed to be present in the courtroom but

25     has no right to address anything to the Chamber.  You must be aware of

Page 320

 1     the fact that you are -- have made the decision to be representing

 2     yourself.  That means you have the full responsibility and the task of a

 3     Defence counsel.  If you want to have another way of proceeding, then

 4     please do it in writing so that the Prosecution and the Chamber is fully

 5     aware of your wish and we can then make a further decision on this topic.

 6     Thank you very much.

 7             Now the Chamber would like to put some questions to the parties

 8     in relation to the commencement of trial tomorrow, in particular to the

 9     opening statements.  First, does the Prosecution have an updated

10     estimated length of its opening statement, Mr. McCloskey?

11             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Yes, Mr. President.  Mr. Thayer will be giving

12     the opening statement, and as we have been getting ready and he's been

13     getting ready he has noted that it -- going into Monday would be the best

14     possible option for him, which you have set aside in any event.  And we

15     have been told by Mr. Gajic that General Tolimir does not wish to make an

16     opening statement, so there should be time.  But I would -- any further

17     questions, Mr. Thayer is ready to respond to in particular.

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  I think for the moment it is enough.  We have now

19     your indication and we will take that into account.

20             Mr. Tolimir, pursuant to Rule 84 of our Rules, in your capacity

21     as Defence counsel you may elect to make your opening statement after the

22     Prosecution's opening statement, tomorrow and Monday, or you may wait

23     until the beginning of the Defence case.  Furthermore, pursuant to

24     Rule 84 bis, in your capacity as the accused, and not as Defence or a

25     witness, you may, under the control of the Chamber, make a statement

Page 321

 1     after the Prosecution's opening statement, for which you will be neither

 2     compelled to make a solemn declaration nor examined about the content of

 3     the statement, and the Chamber shall decide on the probative value, if

 4     any, to be attached to the statement.

 5             Before you answer regarding your intentions in either one of

 6     these respects, I will take the opportunity to say the following.  The

 7     Chamber is seized of the Prosecution's motion for an instruction

 8     regarding the admissibility of submission and statements of the accused

 9     filed in English yesterday -- the 23rd of February.  The motion asks the

10     Chamber to issue an instruction to you regarding your rights to remain

11     silent and the possible consequences should you choose to waive this

12     right.  I understand that you have received the translation for this

13     submission, and I would like to ask you if you are in a position to

14     respond orally at this time.

15             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  I am in

16     a position to respond orally to these questions that you have raised.  As

17     for the latter question, my legal advisor and I have read the motion of

18     the Prosecution, and I can tell you that I will not make an opening

19     statement until I start my case in accordance with the Rules.  I will

20     likewise not sign the statement in accordance with my rights.  I also

21     wish to let you know that I am fully apprised of my rights, either from

22     the side of my legal advisor or by having read the Rules of Procedure and

23     Evidence.

24             Now, the Prosecution's instruction on submissions is not quite

25     appropriate.  It states that you may take into account the submissions I

Page 322

 1     make and the submissions my legal advisor makes.  I think that you should

 2     take them into account, that it would be proper for you, for the

 3     Trial Chamber, to take into account any submissions I may make and

 4     consider them.  I don't think I should give any particular response to

 5     the motion by the OTP, since my legal advisor and I have discussed the

 6     motion and have taken up this position.  Thank you.

 7             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you, Mr. Tolimir.  Nevertheless, in any

 8     case the Chamber would like to give you some guidance in this respect,

 9     taking into account what you just stated.  You have the right to remain

10     silent during the whole trial.  You are not obliged to give evidence, to

11     question witnesses, or to make submissions.  You may, however, give

12     evidence on your own behalf at the appropriate time, in which case you

13     will be subject to cross-examination.  Other than when giving evidence,

14     you are not obliged to answer any questions about the facts of the case,

15     but you should be aware that if you do make statements about the facts

16     during submissions to the Court, such statements may be part of the

17     material considered by the Trial Chamber in reaching its decision on the

18     case.

19             I would like to ask you again:  Do you intend to make an opening

20     statement pursuant to Rule 84 or a statement pursuant to Rule 84 bis of

21     the Rules following the Prosecution's opening statement; and if so, do

22     you have an estimate of the length?

23             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  My

24     advisor and I have, in deciding about our case, decided that there is no

25     need for us to make an opening statement during the Prosecution case;

Page 323

 1     rather, we shall do this at the stage when the Defence will be presenting

 2     their case.

 3             Secondly, my legal advisor and I have also decided that we should

 4     not be making a statement in accordance with Rule 84 bis and that at this

 5     stage we do not wish to make any statements.  I hope that I have answered

 6     your questions.  Thank you.

 7             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.  That is clear now.

 8             The next issue is the question of agreed facts.  At the

 9     Status Conference on the 22nd of October, 2009, the Prosecution indicated

10     that it would be in a better position to discuss the subject of agreed

11     facts once the accused's pre-trial brief was translated into English.

12     The English translation was filed on the 28th of October, 2009.  Are

13     there any updates from the parties with regards to agreed facts?

14     Mr. McCloskey?

15             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Yes, Mr. President.  General Tolimir prefers that

16     all our communications with him go through Mr. Gajic.  I have spoken to

17     Mr. Gajic about this topic, and we have been unable to come to even the

18     simplest agreement on the simplest of facts I think is the unfortunate

19     clearest way to say that.

20             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.

21             Mr. Tolimir, do you want to add something?  Is that your

22     position?

23             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I thank my learned friend,

24     Mr. McCloskey, for correctly representing the situation.  Mr. Gajic has

25     been authorised by me to discuss these matters with the Prosecution.  In

Page 324

 1     the submissions filed before the Pre-Trial Chamber, he clearly presented

 2     the position of the Defence and clear conclusions can be drawn from

 3     there.  Thank you.

 4             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.

 5             Then we can turn to the next issue, this is the disclosure of

 6     materials pursuant to Rule 66 and 68.  During the last Status Conference,

 7     issues of disclosures from the cases Popovic, Krstic, Blagojevic, and

 8     Jokic were raised by the accused.  Judge Prost indicated that the

 9     disclosures were being processed by the Registry and should be completed

10     soon.  The Chamber received an updated from the Registry, with the

11     exception of those materials identified by the Registry as possibly

12     containing personal information, all materials from the cases Popovic,

13     Krstic, Blagojevic and Jokic have been disclosed to the accused.

14             For those materials identified by the Registry as possibly

15     containing personal information, the materials were provided to the

16     counsels for each of the accused in those cases to review.  I understand

17     that the disclosure from the Popovic case is complete and the Registry is

18     currently awaiting responses from the counsels for Krstic, Blagojevic,

19     and Jokic, which I expected very soon.

20             Are there any updates from the parties regarding disclosure?

21     Mr. Tolimir.

22             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  I don't

23     have any updates.  I can just tell you that the disclosure is ongoing and

24     I would like to thank the Registry for having enabled us to get access of

25     all the necessary materials.

Page 325

 1             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.

 2             Mr. McCloskey.

 3             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Mr. President, the Prosecution has met its

 4     obligations under this rule.  It's a continuing process, as you know.  In

 5     fact, you may have seen in the public there are ongoing searches in

 6     Serbia of places, and we have been obtaining material almost on a regular

 7     basis for the last several years that we endeavour to review and provide

 8     to the accused in an indexed form so that the documents can be seen

 9     without having to go through everything at first.  And so that is what we

10     will continue to endeavour to do.  There are more materials coming in.

11     We will get that to them in electronic format as soon as possible.

12             These are many of the reasons you see these ongoing and what is

13     relatively normal requests for new exhibits and such.  But we are pretty

14     much caught up with all the material from the past Srebrenica trials and

15     of course are always open for General Tolimir, if he has any specific

16     requests that he wants us to search for exculpatory material regarding

17     Rule 68, that's certainly not his obligation to do that, but that does

18     assist us if there's something in particular he's looking for.  Counsel

19     for various accused have asked us to do that in the past and that is

20     something we are, of course, most willing to do.

21             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much, Mr. McCloskey.

22             Furthermore, the Chamber reminds the Prosecution pursuant to Rule

23     66 to disclose to the accused in a language he understands statements of

24     all witnesses whom the Prosecutor intends to call to testify at trial and

25     copies of all transcripts and written statements taken in accordance with

Page 326

 1     Rule 92 bis, ter, and quater.

 2             Furthermore, the Chamber reminds the Prosecution pursuant to

 3     Rule 68 it must disclose to the Defence in a timely manner any material

 4     the Prosecutor knows could suggest the innocence or mitigate the guilt of

 5     the accused or affect the credibility of the Prosecution evidence.  This

 6     remains of course an ongoing obligation.

 7             The next topic would be the trial management.  A trial management

 8     meeting, TMM, will be held on the 5th of March.  Parties are invited to

 9     take part.

10             Mr. Tolimir, you have indicated that you will not attend this

11     meeting.  Because you will not be present, there will be no B/C/S

12     interpretation of the meeting.  The transcript and audio/visual record

13     will be in English, copies of which you may of course request.

14             Furthermore, yesterday the Chamber issued an order concerning

15     guide-lines on the presentation of evidence and conduct of parties during

16     trial.  The Chamber has taken the necessary steps to provide you,

17     Mr. Tolimir, with a B/C/S translation as soon as possible.  Perhaps you

18     have received it during today.  This order relates in particular to the

19     following:  Co-operation between the parties; efficient use of time;

20     outlined procedure for tendering, numbering, and admission of exhibits;

21     Rule 92 ter procedure; notice of witnesses, witness schedules, and

22     documents for examine and cross; e-court uploading, and I should add

23     procedural issues should be dealt with as much as possible in writing.

24             I refer the parties to this order and ask that it about kept in

25     mind as the trial progresses.

Page 327

 1             Now a word about e-court.  Parties are reminded that this is an

 2     e-court trial and hard copies should be avoided as much as possible.

 3     However, if the parties feel that it is absolutely necessary to provide

 4     the Chamber or a witness with a hard copy, they may do so.  Are there any

 5     updates by the parties regarding e-court matters?  Mr. McCloskey.

 6             MR. McCLOSKEY:  I'm informed that all the key material is in

 7     e-court for the trial.

 8                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

 9             MR. McCLOSKEY:  All the original materials.  These additional

10     motions that are outstanding have, of course, not been uploaded as yet,

11     but they of course will be in due course if the rulings go that way.

12             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.

13             Mr. Tolimir, do you want to comment?

14             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.  I have no comment and I

15     would like to thank everybody who provided me with everything that I need

16     for my defence well in time.  I have all the confidence in my legal

17     advisor, who is going to attend the meeting that you have just mentioned.

18     On Monday mornings I can't attend any activities because I have to attend

19     a church service.  This is not possible on Sunday because on Sunday our

20     priest cannot come to the Detention Unit.  Therefore, we attend a service

21     on Mondays and Croats attend service on Fridays.

22             Therefore, I would kindly ask you if at all possible not to have

23     anything scheduled on Monday mornings, but rather on Monday afternoon.  I

24     can see that for the month of March only one session was scheduled on

25     Monday morning, on the 29th of March.  I would kindly ask you if at all

Page 328

 1     possible to change that to another day or to Monday afternoon.  Thank you

 2     very much.

 3             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Taking into account the problems of scheduling

 4     and three courtrooms, I can't promise that to you, but we will take that

 5     into consideration.  Thank you.

 6             Now, the Chamber would like to give some information on

 7     scheduling of hearings.  For at least the first two months of the trial

 8     we will only sit two days a week because of occupation of courtrooms, I

 9     just mentioned that, and the engagement of two Judges of this Bench in

10     other ongoing cases.  We will re-visit the schedule as necessary as the

11     trial progresses.

12             The next topic relates to protective measures.  The Chamber

13     considers that first and foremost it is of greatest importance to protect

14     confidential information.  Parties are reminded to apply for protective

15     measures as early as possible.

16             Does Mr. McCloskey or the Prosecution foresee requests for

17     protective measures for any of the witnesses scheduled for the coming

18     weeks?

19             MR. McCLOSKEY:  One moment, Mr. President.

20                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

21             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Yes, Mr. President.  We will begin with some of

22     the survivor witnesses, some of whom have requested protective measures

23     in the past.  And as I mentioned to Mr. Gajic, it's from our 65 ter

24     witness list if there is a PW number next to the witness's name, that's

25     an indication they had protective measures in the last trial, which

Page 329

 1     should hold over for this trial.  The -- and so as we confirm that with

 2     the witnesses and we have been in touch with the first few witnesses and

 3     are hearing "yes" in some cases and "no" in others, we will get that out

 4     immediately to the Trial Chamber and to the parties of course.

 5             And, for example, the witness that we would like to call first

 6     asked for facial distortion last time, and we'll have to see how he is

 7     now.  It tends to change, as I'm sure you're, on their experience after

 8     or during the last Trial Chamber or their experience in Bosnia even after

 9     all these years.  But if we -- as we get that information, we will let

10     you know.  Some witnesses choose to go open now, as before they didn't.

11     So we will get that out as we know it.  We are, of course, in contact

12     with those first few witnesses, and we expect to be able to get the word

13     out soon.

14             We are -- we are in the unfortunate situation of one of our first

15     witnesses was a shared Karadzic witness, and we're waiting for the

16     Karadzic decision in order to determine whether that witness will be able

17     to be first or not.  So -- and I've discussed this with Mr. Gajic and --

18     but we'll get that out as soon as we can and we'll always about cognisant

19     of it.  But if you see that PW number next to a witness, that's an

20     indication that they are -- that they did have protective measures and

21     may be asking -- may very well likely be asking for it again.

22             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much for that.  The Chamber would

23     appreciate to receive these requests as soon as possible, and for the

24     procedure to give pseudonyms, you should liaise with the Registry.  The

25     Registry is, of course, the best place to deal with this matter.

Page 330

 1             Thank you very much.  I think we have dealt with the most

 2     important and all the necessary topics.  I would like to ask parties if

 3     there are any other items to be raised by the parties now in the

 4     Pre-Trial Conference.  Mr. McCloskey.

 5             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Just one simple issue regarding a potential sight

 6     visit, just to -- if I would ask the Court to, as I'm sure you must have

 7     in mind, whether that's something you want to do.  I -- personally I

 8     think it's advisable but not essential, and I've spoken to Mr. Gajic on

 9     that point, but it does take a lot of logistical planning and all.  And

10     we've found that the best time to go to Bosnia is May or June when it

11     looks like it did -- roughly looks like it did in the -- during the

12     events but is not so hot.

13             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.  The Chamber will consider

14     that matter at a later stage.

15             Mr. Tolimir, do you want to raise any issue?

16             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  I would

17     like to ask you once again to bear in mind that on the 29th of March is

18     the last service on the eve of Easter and the resurrection of Christ.

19     That's why I kindly requested you to schedule that in the afternoon.  I

20     want to attend the service on that day, and I ask for your indulgence and

21     understanding.  As you know, we are allowed to attend religious services

22     in the detention but not on Sunday but rather on Monday and the rest on

23     Friday.  And I'm sure that somebody will accommodate your request and

24     swap slots with you.

25             The second thing I would like to raise is to issue a decision as

Page 331

 1     soon as possible about the Prosecution's request pursuant to Rule 92 bis,

 2     a matter that Mr. McCloskey has just commented upon.  We as Defence want

 3     to have as many elements to devise our strategy, to be able to call our

 4     witnesses, and to schedule their sequence.  I would kindly ask you to

 5     issue that decision as soon as possible.  I would also like to inform you

 6     that the Defence is having a very hard time, because we cannot complete

 7     our Defence due to some decisions on the part of the Registry when it

 8     comes to financing.  The 150 hours that are paid to me are not enough to

 9     organise my Defence.  Please bear that in mind because I need to be able

10     to have the equality of arms in these proceedings that have been accorded

11     to all the other accused and that has been accorded to the OTP.  I

12     believe that we will have an opportunity to discuss the situation in the

13     Detention Unit, but for the time being I would like to thank you for your

14     kind attention.

15             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much, Mr. Tolimir.  Three points

16     you have raised.  The first is the scheduling on the 29th of March.  As

17     you know, we are in the hands of those people in the administration who

18     make the scheduling, but we will consider your request immediately after

19     this Pre-Trial Conference, and I understand -- we understand your

20     situation.

21             The second, as I indicated already to you, that the decision on

22     the motion of the Prosecution related to 92 bis is -- will be decided in

23     due course.  And the third matter, you know the Registry is responsible

24     for that and will deal with this, I think as well, in due course.

25             Thank you very much.  We adjourn now and we'll resume tomorrow in

Page 332

 1     the afternoon at 2.15 in this courtroom for the opening statement of the

 2     Prosecution.

 3                           --- Whereupon the Pre-Trial Conference

 4                           adjourned at 3.01 p.m.