1 Friday, 8 October 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.
5 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Good morning to everybody. Judge Mindua can't
6 take part in today's hearing due to another urgent appointment.
7 Therefore the Chamber decided to sit only with two Judges pursuant to
8 Rule 15 bis.
9 I think the next witness should be brought in, Mr. Vanderpuye.
10 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. Good morning to you,
11 good morning to Your Honour, and good morning everyone.
12 Mr. President, I would ask, as was the case yesterday, for the
13 witness to be provided with a caution pursuant to Rule 90(E). I think
14 it's appropriate in the circumstances as it was yesterday and that's the
15 only preliminary issue I wanted to raise.
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much.
17 [The witness entered court]
18 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Good morning, sir. Welcome to the Tribunal.
19 Would you please read aloud --
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Morning.
21 JUDGE FLUEGGE: -- the affirmation to tell the truth which is
22 shown to you on the card now.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
24 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
25 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much. And please sit down.
1 I assume that it is not the first time that you are testifying in
2 this Tribunal. You know the rules and the procedure, and I would like to
3 let you know that you have, as a witness, certain rights. You have the
4 Rule 90(E) of our Rules of Procedure and Evidence and I would like to
5 read the text to you so that you are aware of your rights. I quote:
6 "The witness may object to making any statement which might tend
7 to incriminate the witness. The Chamber may, however, compel the witness
8 to answer the question. Testimony compelled in this way shall not be
9 used as evidence in a subsequent prosecution against the witness for any
10 offence other than false testimony."
11 This is the paragraph in our Rules. Did you understand that?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
13 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much. Now Mr. Vanderpuye has some
14 questions for you. Mr. Vanderpuye.
15 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
16 WITNESS: MARKO MILOSEVIC
17 [Witness answered through interpreter]
18 Examination by Mr. Vanderpuye:
19 Q. Good morning, Mr. Milosevic.
20 A. Good morning.
21 Q. You recall we met yesterday morning and I'm going to ask you a
22 few questions in relation to your evidence today. The first thing I want
23 to ask you is: Do you recall having testified in the case of Prosecutor
24 versus Vujadin Popovic et al. on 26 June 2007?
25 A. Yes, I remember.
1 Q. And was your testimony truthful and accurate?
2 A. Yes, it was truthful and accurate.
3 Q. And have you had an opportunity to review your testimony before
4 coming to court today?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And did you read it or did you listen to it?
7 A. I listened to it.
8 Q. And having listened to your testimony, does it fairly and
9 accurately reflect what you would say if you were asked -- if you were
10 examined today and asked the same questions?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Thank you, Mr. Milosevic.
13 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, at this time I would tender the
14 witness's previous testimony, which is P1102.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: It will be received.
16 MR. VANDERPUYE: As well as the attendant exhibits in that
17 testimony which are P1103 and P1104.
18 JUDGE FLUEGGE: They will be admitted into evidence.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. I have a brief
20 summary of the witness's prior testimony, and then I have a few questions
21 for him.
22 Mr. Milosevic was born in 1964 in Lupoglav, Kladanj municipality
23 in Bosnia. He fulfilled his compulsory JNA military service in 1983 in
24 Sarajevo. He joined the Army of Republika Srpska in May or June of 1992
25 and served until September 1994 when he was demobilised.
1 In March or April 1995, Mr. Milosevic was remobilised and sent to
2 the 6th Battalion of the Zvornik Brigade as the deputy commander of that
3 battalion under battalion commander Ostoja Stanisic.
4 Between 10 a.m. and 12 noon on the morning of 14 July 1995,
5 Milosevic was at the 6th Battalion command in the village of Petkovci
6 when he was contacted by the Zvornik Brigade duty officer and informed
7 that in around two hours a group of Muslim prisoners would be
8 transferred, accompanied by security, to the Petkovci elementary school.
9 When Mr. Milosevic's commander Ostoja Stanisic returned to the
10 battalion command around 2 hours later, Milosevic informed him of the
11 call from the Zvornik Brigade duty officer.
12 That same afternoon, Stanisic received a call from the Zvornik
13 Brigade duty officer. Following the call, around 1600 or 1700 hours that
14 afternoon, Stanisic instructed Milosevic to look for Beara near the
15 Petkovci elementary school and convey a message to him to report to the
16 brigade command.
17 Milosevic went towards the Petkovci elementary school. He met
18 Zvornik Brigade assistant commander for security, Drago Nikolic at a
19 crossroads leading to the school. Drago Nikolic pointed out Beara to
20 Milosevic and Milosevic conveyed the message to Beara to contact the
22 Milosevic saw four or five military policemen with Nikolic and
23 Beara and uniformed troops guarding the school. He also saw a few
24 lorries and buses parked further down the road, and a blue Golf III car.
25 Milosevic then returned to the battalion and reported to his
1 commander, Ostoja Stanisic, that he had relayed the message to Beara.
2 Stanisic then conveyed this information to the brigade.
3 Milosevic heard isolated shots and bursts of gun-fire coming from
4 the direction of the school late that afternoon. He stated that he did
5 not investigate and that he did not pass the school again that day.
6 Although he spent the night of 15 July at the battalion command,
7 Milosevic said that he did not learn that the Muslim prisoners at
8 Petkovci school had been killed until around 20 July, after he had been
9 wounded and placed in hospital.
10 That concludes my summary, Your Honours. I do have a few
11 additional questions for the witness.
12 Q. All right. Now, prior to serving as the deputy commander of the
13 6th Battalion of the Zvornik Brigade in 1995, Mr. Milosevic, did you
14 serve in any other positions as a member of the VRS?
15 A. Yes. I served in other positions in the VRS, specifically in the
16 Zvornik Brigade. In 1993, I was the assistant commander for morale. And
17 in 1994, I was the assistant commander for security in the battalion.
18 I'm not sure if it was the 3rd or the 1st Battalion of the Zvornik
20 Q. And in 1994 when you were -- first let me ask you, you said that
21 you were not sure if it was the 1st or the 3rd Battalion. Would it
22 refresh your --
23 A. I don't know exactly which battalion it was, but I was the
24 assistant commander for security in this battalion.
25 Q. Okay. I would just remind you that in your Blagojevic testimony
1 at page 5639, and that would be lines 20 through 23 of that transcript,
2 you indicated that you served in the 1st Battalion as the assistant
3 commander for security for about six or seven months. Does that refresh
4 your recollection?
5 A. Yes, it does refresh my recollection and it was like that.
6 Q. And you've indicated that that was within the Zvornik Brigade.
7 Did you have contacts with the chief of security for the Zvornik Brigade
8 during that period of time?
9 A. Yes. In the period while I was serving in this duty, we had
10 contacts with the chief of security of the Zvornik Brigade,
11 Mr. Drago Nikolic.
12 Q. And this is the same Drago Nikolic that you've indicated in your
13 previous testimony as the person that pointed out Beara to you near the
14 Petkovci school on 14 July 1995, that afternoon?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And at that time did you know who Beara was?
17 A. No. I didn't know who Beara was. It was the first time I saw
19 Q. And in terms of your relationship with Nikolic, was it such that
20 it would give you cause to believe or give you pause, with a p, in
21 respect of his pointing out Beara to you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Is there any reason that you have to believe that Mr. Nikolic
24 would have misled you as to who Beara was when you asked him?
25 A. No.
1 Q. I want to show you a couple of exhibits.
2 MR. VANDERPUYE: The first will be P1103.
3 Q. This is a -- it's an aerial image that you marked in your last
5 MR. VANDERPUYE: Yes, this is just fine.
6 Q. If you could just tell us briefly what this shows and then I'll
7 show you another exhibit. You don't have to mark it, you can just tell
8 us what it's supposed to indicate.
9 A. We can see that the road from the battalion command to the
10 crossroads where I met Drago Nikolic is marked in a red line, and to the
11 left where the primary school is, it's the plateau with the primary
12 school. It's marked also in red.
13 Q. Thank you very much. I'd like to show you the next part of this
14 exhibit -- well, another exhibit.
15 MR. VANDERPUYE: It's P1104.
16 Q. And could you briefly just tell us what this is intended to show,
17 what the X is and then what the red line is?
18 A. It's the old school and the red line marks the road from the new
19 school to the battalion school, or rather, the old school where the
20 command of the 6th Battalion was accommodated.
21 Q. Thank you, Mr. Milosevic.
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: I'd like to show you P1091. I believe it's the
23 aerial image from which those two marked photos were taken -- was taken.
24 Q. If you are able to find your bearings on this, this one I'd like
25 you to mark, just to show what the other two images reflect. So if you
1 could just show the starting point, the meeting point, and the school on
2 this one, that would be helpful.
3 A. Do you mean the old school or the new one?
4 Q. If you can see the elementary school, if you could mark it that?
5 A. [Marks]
6 Q. Okay. And if you could mark the point, the intersection or near
7 the intersection where you met Drago Nikolic and Beara?
8 A. [Marks]
9 Q. And if you can show where the command of the 6th Battalion is
10 situated. Maybe we'll mark these 1, 2, and 3 respectively so that it's
11 clear for the record.
12 A. [Marks]
13 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Milosevic.
14 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I'd like to tender this exhibit.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: This aerial photograph with markings will be
16 admitted into evidence.
17 THE REGISTRAR: The red markings, Your Honours, on Exhibit P1091
18 made in red by this witness would be assigned Exhibit P01138.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you. I'd like to show you 65 ter 1464,
20 which is also a map. Okay. If we can zoom in to, you see the number 6
21 in there, if you can focus in on that and you'll see a flag marked with
22 the number 6 as well. It's right in the middle of the screen, just
23 about. We can get a little bit bigger. And if you can zoom in right
24 there on the flag, that would be helpful. Okay, I think that's pretty
1 Q. Mr. Milosevic, are you able to recognise the location that's
2 indicated -- well, the location, there are many, but the location where
3 you see a 6 with a flag in it?
4 A. Baljkovica, Petkovci, that's where the command of the
5 6th Battalion was.
6 MR. VANDERPUYE: I'd like to -- if we can have the flag move a
7 little towards the centre of the screen, that would be helpful. A little
8 bit down. Okay. That's just fine. Maybe we can blow it up also.
10 Q. I'd like you to mark this one, this map as well, but first let me
11 ask you, where the flag is depicted in this map, is that accurate as to
12 where the 6th Battalion command was actually situated?
13 A. As far as I can see, the circle, it's a populated place, and it
14 was approximately there, now whether it's exact or not, but I think it
16 Q. All right.
17 A. Because the battalion command was here where the populated place
18 is, that is Petkovci.
19 Q. All right. That's good to know. Now, where the triangle is at
20 the base of that flag with the number 6 in it, that would be Petkovci; is
21 that right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. And about -- do you see the -- do you see the water to the
24 right of that flag? There's some distance away, and you can see a body
25 of water there?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. And can you tell us where the dam is located relative to
3 where the command of the 6th Battalion is, and if you could mark it, that
4 would be helpful, if you are able.
5 A. The dam was in the populated place called Djulici, and I suppose
6 that it is this up here, as I was living in was in Lupe for ten years and
7 from the place where I lived you could see the dam. Am I supposed to
8 mark it, but how? With an X or --
9 Q. With a B for Brana, I think. That would be fine.
10 A. [Marks]
11 Q. Can you tell us about how far the dam is from the battalion
12 command, the 6th Battalion command?
13 A. I can't say exactly, but as Djulici were 2, 2 and a half or
14 3 kilometres away and so were Lupe, that means that the dam would have to
15 be around 2 and a half to 3 kilometres from the battalion command.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I'd like it to tender this
18 exhibit as well.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: That marked map will be received.
20 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the markings made by this witness
21 in red on 65 ter 01464 will be assigned P01139.
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you.
23 Q. Mr. Milosevic, I just have a few questions more for you. As the
24 former assistant commander for security at the battalion level, who were
25 you -- to whom were you subordinated, back in 1994?
1 A. In 1994, well, I was subordinated to the commander of my
2 battalion and I also co-operated with Mr. Drago Nikolic who was the
3 assistant commander for security of the Zvornik Brigade.
4 Q. In terms of your relationship with the security structures of the
5 brigade, can you tell us what that was, what was your responsibility
6 toward the higher security organs?
7 A. I will tell you what I was doing at the time and how I understood
8 my duties as the assistant commander for security in the battalion, in
9 relation to the chief of security of the Zvornik Brigade Drago Nikolic.
10 It all came down to several operational tasks. Essentially that we
11 should be in contact so that we would say whether the line or the zone of
12 responsibility was secure, that was the zone and the line of our brigade
13 and our battalion. And if necessary, we would inform the command of the
14 Zvornik Brigade about intelligence, that is to say, the movements of
15 enemy forces in front of our line and our defence sector.
16 What I can say is that we spent most time by co-operating with
17 the military police of all the security structures at the brigade level
18 because very often it happens to us when there was rotation of troops at
19 the line, that the line was not filled, and then company commanders
20 requested that the soldiers be transported to our lines and we requested
21 the brigade command and the military police, which was controlled by the
22 security, to bring in these men and transport them to the lines so that
23 the line would be secure.
24 Q. Did you in your capacity as assistant commander for security at
25 the battalion level receive orders from your commander, that is the
1 battalion commander?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And did you receive orders from Drago Nikolic as your superior
4 along the security chain of communication?
5 A. Well, Mr. Drago Nikolic, as far as security is concerned and as
6 far as I can remember, and this was a peaceful time where there weren't
7 many combat operations, from time to time as required we would report, I
8 can't tell you the exact number, how many times, but we would report and
9 Drago Nikolic as the assistant commander for security would issue certain
10 guide-lines and instructions and as to how we were to work.
11 For the most part it had to do with potential movements of Muslim
12 forces in front of our lines where our battalion covered and they would
13 indicate this to us so we would be prepared so that we wouldn't be caught
14 by surprise by the enemy. So for the most part that is what it boiled
15 down to. And there was also certain co-ordination with the military
16 police in terms of securing the defence line, mainly to do with
17 reinforcements and bringing in fresh men to fill in the gaps.
18 Q. Was it part of your responsibility as the assistant commander for
19 security at the battalion level, was it part of your responsibility to
20 undertake certain measures to detect and arrest perpetrators in respect
21 of criminal acts within the area of responsibility or within the area
22 of -- rather, within the area of responsibility for the security organs
23 generally and for the battalion particularly?
24 A. I wouldn't know anything about that.
25 Q. Were you at any time involved in either gathering information or
1 undertaking any criminal proceedings against perpetrators of criminal
2 acts during the time that you were assistant commander for security at
3 the battalion level?
4 A. Well, all I can say is that there was an incident sometime in
5 1994, I believe in spring-time, but I'm not sure, and this was while I
6 was the assistant commander for security, where one of our companies
7 captured a member of the Muslim Army who was drunk and he just happened
8 to run into our lines. He was held at the battalion. He was questioned
9 briefly. We asked him what his name was and what unit he belonged to,
10 and we informed of this the brigade command and asked them to send
11 military -- the military police to take over the prisoner and escort him
12 to the brigade. That's how it happened.
13 The military police did come. They took in Muslim to the
14 brigade, and as far as I know, this same person was later on exchanged
15 and returned to his territory.
16 Q. And would the questioning of a prisoner such as this one that
17 you've described, would that be within the remit of your responsibilities
18 as a security officer at the battalion level?
19 A. Well, as I've already said, as I said that I was a member of the
20 Army of Republika Srpska and that I was where I was, but I wasn't very
21 familiar with the exact duties of either the assistant commander of the
22 battalion or the battalion because I never went to any military school,
23 so I just felt that it was my duty to inform the brigade if someone was
24 captured so that they could jot down the information.
25 But as for the questioning itself and how that should be done, I
1 did not go into that. There was no need for that and there were other
2 people who did that.
3 Q. You know based upon your experience having been an assistant
4 commander for security at the battalion level, do you know if it is
5 within the responsibilities of a security officer such as yourself to
6 question prisoners, whether it is within the responsibilities of that
7 position to undertake measures to detect and arrest perpetrators of
8 criminal acts, and whether it is within the responsibilities for that
9 position to gather information about those criminal acts that can be used
10 for conducting criminal proceedings? Is that your understanding of what
11 your responsibilities, among other things, would entail?
12 A. I've already said that, in my view, and as far as I knew about
13 the army and the command system in the army, I know that it was my duty
14 as a security officer in the battalion to gather information on any
15 movements of Muslims out in front of our defence line, to make sure that
16 the line is secure and fully manned and to contact the brigade with any
17 issues that -- with the military police. But as far as the criminal
18 offences were concerned, I did not -- I was not aware that it was my
19 duty, nor did I read any regulations to that effect so I couldn't really
20 answer that question very accurately.
21 Q. All right. Well, thank you very much for that candid response.
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: That concludes my direct examination,
23 Mr. President.
24 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much, Mr. Vanderpuye.
25 Mr. Tolimir, please start your cross-examination.
1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. May
2 there be peace unto this house and may God's will be done in these
3 proceedings. And may the outcome be as God wishes and not as I wish,
4 including today. I wish Mr. Milosevic a pleasant stay in The Hague and I
5 wish to greet him.
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, General.
7 Cross-examination by Mr. Tolimir:
8 Q. [Interpretation] I will have a few questions for you about some
9 matters that you testified earlier on because all of those transcripts
10 were also admitted as evidence in these proceedings. And I would
11 appreciate your patience, listen carefully to my questions, and please do
12 try to make a brief pause after my question so that the interpreters can
14 A. Very well.
15 Q. Thank you. Now, in the Popovic transcript on page 1329, lines 3,
16 4 and 5, you said the following, and I will quote because neither you nor
17 I can speak any English:
18 "Before the war broke out in the former Yugoslavia" --
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: And for the record, this is P1102.
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you. Transcript page 13298.
21 Lines 4 and 5. Thank you.
22 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
23 Q. "Before the war broke out in the former Yugoslavia, I did not
24 have a job. I was in Kladanj waiting to be employed at the bureau for
1 My question for you is this: How old were you before the war?
2 Thank you.
3 A. Before the war I was 27 years old.
4 Q. Thank you. Could you tell us, please, based on what
5 Mr. Vanderpuye read, your resume, you said that you were born in Kladanj.
6 Were your parents too born in Kladanj? In other words, do you hail from
7 that area?
8 A. Well, I was born in Lupoglav village, and it was in Kladanj
9 municipality, and that's where I was born, my parents were born, as well
10 as our forbearers.
11 Q. Thank you. In other words, the Lupoglav village is your ancient
12 home, as we would put it in our language?
13 A. Yes, that's correct.
14 Q. Thank you. In the Popovic transcript you said that your mother
15 remained in Lupoglav for awhile, and you also said:
16 "Not only my mother," and I quote, "some 50 people or so stayed
17 in the village and they were all arrested and taken to a camp in Stupari,
18 in Kladanj municipality, where they were held until July 1993 when they
19 were exchanged under the auspices of the Red Cross. This exchange was in
21 My question is this: How long was your mother held in detention,
22 because it doesn't say so here? Thank you.
23 A. In late May and early June 1992, and at this time I worked in
24 Sekovici already, some inhabitants of my village, Lupoglav, had already
25 been evacuated to Sekovici, and a larger number of them, including my
1 mother, her brothers and other relations, remained in the village and
2 were captured by the Muslim forces, which at the time was the Kladanj
3 Territorial Defence. And from the village they were taken by force to
4 Stupari to a camp which was housed across -- in a building across from
5 the school, and they were held there until July 1993, I believe, when
6 they were exchanged through the mediation of the International Red Cross
7 and the exchange took place in Bijeljina.
8 Q. Thank you. My apologies, I really wanted to ask you when they
9 were captured, if you can recall, whether it was the same month or the
10 same year? Thank you.
11 A. They were captured in 1992 in early June.
12 Q. Thank you. Can you tell us what happened with their property?
13 Did anyone stay back? Did any inhabitants of Serb ethnicities remain in
14 the village?
15 A. As far as the property is concerned in my village, Lupoglav, all
16 of the properties were then devastated. They were looted and burnt down.
17 In other words, nothing was left of the village. It was razed.
18 Q. Thank you. Did any of those individuals whose properties had
19 been burnt down, did any of them take part in any combat operations or
20 were they another category?
21 A. Well, all these were unarmed civilians and elderly people, so
22 that not one of them ever took part in any combat operations nor were
23 there any combat operations in May and June 1992 at the time when they
24 were captured and taken to the Stupari camp.
25 Q. Thank you. Can you tell us please, other than your village, were
1 there any other villages and places in Kladanj municipality that you know
2 of where people had been -- people of Serb ethnicities had been removed
3 in a similar manner? Thank you.
4 A. Well, in view of the fact that I spent my entire life there, my
5 career, I worked there, I knew most of the people there, and I believe
6 and I think that all of the villages in Kladanj municipality, and I'm
7 talking about June 1992, all these villages were torched and all the
8 people who stayed behind, who hadn't been evacuated earlier on, were
9 captured and taken to Stupari. So that camp was a detention camp not
10 only for this village but also from some other villages.
11 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not catch the names.
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Would you please repeat the names of these
13 villages. The interpreters didn't catch the names.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I said my village Lupoglav,
15 Matijevici, Olovci, Brdijeli, Obrcevac, Vranovici, Mladovo, Pelemisi, I'm
16 not sure about Pelemisi, the entire area, but part of it, and other Serb
17 villages which were connected with Olovo which I was not aware of at the
19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you. Mr. President, again we
20 see that not all of the villages were recorded in the transcript and I
21 would ask the witness to repeat the names again and just tell us whether
22 they had the same fate as Lupoglav, whether they were looted, torched and
23 so on, and the people taken away.
24 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, the system with recording is the
25 following. If you seen the signs between Olovci and Vranovici, that
1 means it will be checked later and compared with the tape. You can be
2 sure that will be corrected and added, so there is no need to repeat it
3 again. But if the interpreters tell us that they didn't catch it, they
4 couldn't translate it and therefore I asked for repetition.
5 Please carry on.
6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.
7 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
8 Q. So, Witness, would you just answer my new question, in other
9 words, were these villages too devastated, as you said, and how? Thank
11 A. As far as I know, all of these villages, all the villages that
12 were inhabited by Serbs were torched and demolished.
13 Q. Thank you. On page 1329 -- 13299 of the transcript, in the
14 Popovic transcript, you talked about your promotion while you were with
15 the Army of Republika Srpska. You spoke about this in lines 5 through 8.
16 I won't reiterate any of what you said there, but could you just tell us
17 here whether you have ever completed any kind of military school? Thank
19 A. General, in the Republika Srpska army I was on various functions.
20 As I said, I was assistant commander for security and then for morale,
21 and then in the end I was the deputy commander of the 6th Battalion. My
22 rank was that of corporal and I was conferred this rank when I was in the
23 Yugoslav Army still and I did not -- I did not get promoted at all.
24 Q. Well, the reason I put this question to you was to show that when
25 you did not answer some of the Prosecutor's questions, it was not because
1 you weren't willing to but because you didn't have the appropriate
3 A. Well, yes, I did not -- I was not trained as an officer and I was
4 not very familiar with what which functions entailed. I did the best I
5 knew how.
6 Q. Thank you. Did you actually complete the course as assistant
7 commander for security? Did you complete the course for that position?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Thank you. Did you complete the course for assistant commander
10 for morale? Thank you.
11 A. No.
12 Q. The position of assistant commander, does that mean that the
13 person in charge is the commander whereas you were just his assistant at
14 the battalion level, yes or no?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. My apologies. Within the scope of the duties that you carried
17 out and that you took over from the person who was there before you, did
18 you just carry out those duties for the period that you were appointed to
19 that position, say six months, and then you were transferred to something
20 else, you would do something else?
21 A. Well, I didn't go through any kind of training. We just carried
22 out the take-over and we would be assigned to various duties within the
24 Q. Thank you. Did your battalion commander know what the tasks and
25 duties of the position for which you were the assistant were?
1 A. Well, I assume so.
2 Q. Does that mean that you could not lie to him or deceive him as to
3 what it was that you were doing or were suppose today do because he knew
4 very well what your duties as assistant commander for security entailed?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Please tell us now whether at any point in time you were taken to
7 task because of the work that you did in the course of your duties, or
8 were you ever commended for your work, and were these commendations
9 relayed to you directly or via the brigade commander and whether they
10 were done in public in front of all the other members of the brigade?
11 A. Well, I've already said that, as far as I can recall, I never
12 received any commendations either at the brigade command or elsewhere. I
13 did my job to the best of my abilities, but I was never commended for my
14 work, nor was I ever promoted.
15 Q. Thank you. Please tell the Trial Chamber whether all assistant
16 commanders in the battalion such as yours have to carry out the tasks as
17 set forth by the commander?
18 A. Well, as I've already are said, I was the assistant commander for
19 security. I was one of the assistants as a morale person, and of course
20 I obeyed the orders issued by my commander. That was crucial. And as
21 for the rules and the structure of the chain of command, I really didn't
22 learn -- I didn't read anything about it, so I don't really know much
23 about it.
24 Q. Well, tell me, please, can a subordinate change orders issued by
25 his commander? In other words -- or to put it more clearly, did the
1 commander issue orders that had to be followed?
2 A. Yes. General, my apologies, but could you please repeat your
4 Q. Thank you. Did commanders issue written or oral orders for
5 combat operations and activities related to that? Thank you.
6 A. I don't really remember.
7 Q. Thank you. Were you carrying out your duties at the location
8 which were pointed out by the Prosecutor a little earlier?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. The battalion forces, were they deployed there pursuant to an
11 order or were they there just on their own decision? Thank you.
12 A. Well, I will repeat again. As far as the command structure is
13 concerned, I wouldn't really go into that much, but I assumed that they
14 were deployed there pursuant to an order and that it was known where a
15 battalion or a company was that was part of that battalion.
16 Q. Thank you. As an assistant commander, were you allowed to alter
17 any orders issued by the commander? Were you allowed to say, Well, we
18 want -- we will not defend that feature or that hill but some other?
19 Were there such instances where a subordinate commander would take his
20 own or make his own -- issue his own commands?
21 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye.
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. I don't mean to
23 interrupt the cross-examination, but the question seems a bit confusing
24 because not clear as to what period of time we are talking about. If we
25 are talking about 1995, then the record is clear that the position of
1 this witness at that time was the deputy commander of the 6th Battalion.
2 And it's unclear whether we are talking about his position as a deputy
3 commander or as an assistant commander, which are completely different,
4 completely different functions. And I'm sure Mr. Tolimir wants to make
5 that point as well, but I think it's important to be clear for the
7 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much.
8 Mr. Tolimir, that will be helpful indeed if you could make clear
9 if your specific question is related to 1995 or another period of time.
10 Please go ahead.
11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
12 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
13 Q. I asked about 1995 and I mentioned the place where the Prosecutor
14 showed the flag and I asked you whether you were there. But let me ask
15 you again, while you were in the 6th Battalion, could you ever change the
16 position of the battalion commander about positioning the defence forces
17 or any other decision in the zone where combat activities were being
18 carried out? Thank you.
19 A. As my duty in the battalion was assistant commander, that is to
20 say, deputy commander of the battalion, I could not change anything that
21 the commander had ordered. I had to obey the commander just like anyone
22 else within the battalion command, of course.
23 Q. Thank you. Could you change the commander's decision relating to
24 security? When he would say, Well, the security will have to do this and
25 that, could you change this decision or did you have to obey the order?
1 What I have in mind is the period while you were the assistant for
2 security in the battalion, those six months.
3 A. I think that as the assistant commander for security I was not
4 supposed to change any decisions. We just obeyed our commander.
5 Q. Thank you. Did the commander issue all security tasks to you as
6 you were the one who had to carry out these decisions and implement them
7 in the field? Did he regulate that by written orders or by something
8 that he would convey to you orally? Thank you.
9 A. I already said earlier and let me repeat now, as assistant
10 commanders for security within the battalion, we had some contacts with
11 the assistant commander for security in the brigade in the sense that we
12 would have possible briefings, and it all came down to determining
13 whether the line was secure. In other words, whether any movements had
14 been noticed or any attempts to break through the forward defence line of
15 the battalion, and what I already said, we co-operated with the military
16 police in the sense of filling up positions along the line so as to make
17 sure that it would be secure.
18 So we obeyed the commander, but we also had some contacts with
19 the security commander of the brigade, specifically in connection with
20 the issues that I just mentioned.
21 Q. You probably meant the assistant commander for security because
22 there's no commander for security?
23 A. Yes, yes, I meant the assistant commander for security in the
25 Q. Thank you. Could he issue orders to you, I mean the assistant
1 commander for security in the brigade, orders that would be contrary to
2 the orders and tasks that had been issued to the battalion and that were
3 supposed to be implemented in the field? Thank you.
4 A. I can only speak for myself. We did not have any specific orders
5 that we would receive from the assistant commander of the Zvornik
6 Brigade. The meetings came down to the security of the line and in any
7 case, it's probable, although I cannot confirm this, that the assistant
8 commander had some contacts with battalion commanders. In any case, as
9 the deputy commander of the battalion, I had to obey the orders of the
10 battalion commander. And let me repeat once again, we did have some
11 contacts with the assistant commander from the brigade for security, and
12 that was Mr. Drago Nikolic in this case, because during these seven or
13 eight months I held this position -- but fortunately it was more or less
14 a peaceful period so there wasn't much need for any additional orders or
15 whatever else.
16 Q. Thank you. I asked you this and I made an error in my question
17 on purpose, but you answered as it was. I asked you whether this
18 assistant commander could issue any orders, but an assistant cannot issue
19 orders because it's logical that the commander should issue them, your
20 commander should issue orders to you just as you said, and his commander
21 would issue orders to him on the basis of his proposal.
22 Did you possibly have the chance --
23 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye.
24 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. I think everybody
25 knows what my objection will be, which is the lead-in to the question. I
1 just want to clarify once again whether or not this is a position that
2 the Defence is taking for the purposes of representing the Defence
3 position in the case because I know that at the beginning of the case,
4 Mr. Tolimir was advised with respect to statements of fact that he may
5 make as an accused in this case, and I see that in this particular
6 instance he has made certain representations concerning the manner in
7 which orders are conveyed either by assistant commanders or commanders,
8 not in the context of a question but separate and apart from any
9 question. And I want to be sure of two things. One is that he is aware
10 of his right with respect to making factual representations as an accused
11 in this case. And two, whether or not it is his position or whether or
12 not he is representing the Defence position in making these kinds of
13 representations for the record.
14 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I think everybody who's listening realised that
15 the last question was not a question but a statement. That is absolutely
16 true, and we have had some instances of a similar kind in the past. You
17 should be very careful with that, Mr. Tolimir, and you should put
18 questions to the witness and not make any statements. Please carry on.
19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. I just
20 explained to the witness why I asked him an erroneous question because
21 Mr. Vanderpuye asked him the question and he answered the way he did.
22 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, I understand you. You would always
23 like to explain why you put the question, but in the proper examination
24 it is never necessary to give a reason for certain kind of a question.
25 This is up to you. Nobody wants to know that. You should make your
1 cross-examination. There is no need for any reasoning. Please go ahead.
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
3 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
4 Q. Mr. Milosevic, please tell the Trial Chamber whether you could
5 give any tasks to those who were not members of your battalion but were
6 members of the army? Thank you.
7 A. General, I was the deputy commander of the 6th Battalion. I
8 never issued any orders or gave any tasks.
9 Q. Thank you. Please tell us did you ever carry out a task or an
10 order that was contrary to how you understood morality or immorality or
11 whether something was right or wrong or how much you knew about the
12 customs and laws that were in force at the period?
13 A. General, can you please repeat the question, it was a longish
15 Q. All right. I'll shorten it. Did you ever carry out an order
16 which you believed was not right?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Were you ever issued such an order by your battalion commander or
19 the brigade commander? Thank you.
20 A. As far as I know it wasn't.
21 Q. Who could give orders to you in this chain of command? Thank
23 A. As I already said, I was the deputy battalion commander and I
24 only obeyed the orders of my battalion commander.
25 Q. Thank you. We'll move to a different group of questions now
1 because you stated clearly what you could and should be doing during
2 these six months.
3 On page 13307 of the transcript in the Popovic case, lines 24 and
4 25, and 13308, lines 1 to 8, you stated the following, I will quote:
5 "In the morning on the 15th of July, early in the morning, my
6 commander, Ostoja Stanisic, sent me once again to the defence sector of
7 the 4th Company in our battalion because we had received information that
8 during the night, or in the late -- in the early evening, that two of the
9 trenches had been abandoned or, rather, that they had been hit by a
10 hand-held launcher and the troops had withdrawn to the left and to the
11 right of this trench and thus left an empty space in our line. So on the
12 orders of my commander, I went there" -- my commander, I'm sorry, I
13 didn't say the word "my commander." "I went there with two or three
14 soldiers to see what had happened and what needed to be done in order to
15 re-establish the line so that we wouldn't have any breaches in the line."
16 Thank you. Did I quote correctly what you said about what was
17 happening at the time and does that correspond to your description?
18 A. Yes, it happened that way.
19 Q. For the record, just tell us which troops withdrew to the left or
20 the right of the trenches which were now empty? Just so that it would be
21 clear for the record, it's not clear whether these were our troops or
22 troops of another army and so on?
23 A. Two trenches that were part of the 4th Company of the
24 6th Battalion, these were the trenches. The 4th Company of the
25 6th Battalion of the Zvornik Brigade, two of these trenches had been
1 abandoned because in the late evening, the two trenches had been hit from
2 hand-held launchers and these troops had moved to adjacent trenches. And
3 this part of the line had become empty and was not secured anymore. This
4 is why I went up there so that we would try to cover that so that we
5 wouldn't have any problems and have enemy soldiers move through the gap,
6 come to us from behind and wreak havoc among our troops the next day.
7 Q. Please tell us, who was it that broke through these two trenches?
8 Thank you.
9 A. The shells were fired from Muslim positions from a hand-held
10 launcher of the Muslim Army.
11 Q. Thank you. Was it from the forward line or from the depth of the
12 territory? Could you estimate that at the site when you were assessing
13 the situation? What did the soldiers tell you where did the fire come
14 from, because a hand-held launcher is used in close combat?
15 A. Yes, yes, as it was a hand-held launcher, it was close contact.
16 It means that they were close to the positions of our defence line.
17 Q. Thank you. Just to answer my question completely, did they come
18 over from the front or did they come from the depth of the territory,
19 these shells that were fired against your positions?
20 A. From the front line.
21 Q. Thank you. Can you remember the date on which this happened?
22 Thank you.
23 A. It was during the late hours on the 14th of July, 1995.
24 Q. Thank you. And you went there, as we know, on the 15th of July;
25 is that so?
1 A. Yes, on the 15th of July early in the morning I went to the line.
2 Q. Can you now please tell us what were the combat activities on the
3 15th of July in the zone or defence sector of your battalion? Thank you.
4 A. On that day, the 15th of July, as far as I remember, there was
5 some fire against our positions from the Muslim forces from the sector of
6 Nezuk and Zaseok. And as for our line, I have to say that at the time
7 our line was weakened in terms of troops. We did not have a sufficient
8 number of men to have the line stable, secure, and solid because many of
9 the soldiers had been in the field and had not returned to the battalion
10 yet at the time.
11 Q. Thank you. How did you resolve this issue and how did you
12 implement the order that your commander issued to you once the line had
13 been broken through and once the VRS soldiers had abandoned their
14 positions on the line?
15 A. As far as I remember, some of the troops were sent from the rear
16 of the battalion in order to temporarily fill in this gap.
17 Q. Thank you. Was there any combat going on on the 15th, 16th and
18 17th of July, and if so, can you please describe what sort of combat it
20 A. On the 15th of July, 1995, in the evening, as far as I can
21 remember, the commander received an order -- the commander,
22 Ostoja Stanisic received the order from the brigade that we should take
23 over the forward command post of the battalion. While we were carrying
24 out preparations and mobilising the troops, the few of them who were
25 available from the battalion, to take control of the forward command
1 post, two or three soldiers and a commander, perhaps a platoon commander,
2 from the 4th Company arrived in the meantime and they requested that one
3 of the command members should come over to the company which was up in
4 Parlog where there was fierce fighting on the following day, that he
5 should be in the company of the soldiers from this company because there
6 was fear among the troops and our presence was supposed to provide calm
7 and a certain sense of security among the troops.
8 Around 1.00 or 2.00 in the morning, we came to the forward
9 command post of Petrovo Strana, it was the 6th Infantry Battalion, our
10 battalion from Petkovci, the commander and myself and some members of the
11 command itself, I cannot remember all the people who were there at the
12 moment. The commander Ostoja Stanisic remained at the forward command
13 post and he sent me to the left wing, that is to say, to the 4th Company
14 positions, together with the commander or two or three soldiers from this
15 company so that I would link up the line and remain with them and provide
16 a sense of security, because we expected fierce fighting to begin in the
17 early morning on the 16th of July, considering that we were informed, as
18 far as I remember, that the Muslim forces were close by behind the backs
19 of our 4th Battalion and had set some of our equipment on fire, had
20 killed some troops and had made a big fire which caused additional
21 disturbance among the members of our battalion. Therefore, we took these
22 positions up there so that in the morning we would be ready when the
23 expected fierce enemy attack came from the direction of Nezuk and Zaseok
24 from the -- from ahead of us. And from behind us, on the other hand,
25 there would also be an attack of the Muslim Army which was trying to
1 break through from the direction of Srebrenica. So the situation was
2 really difficult.
3 Q. Thank you. You said a moment ago from Nezuk and from Zaseok.
4 Was that a place called Zaseok or a group of hamlets? Thank you.
5 A. In the area in front of our line of defence there were two
6 places. One was called Zaseok and the other was called Nezuk, so two
8 Q. Thank you. Now we have it on the record. You said a moment ago
9 that you had been informed, you didn't say by whom, whether by the
10 brigade or other battalions, that in your rear there were -- there was
11 equipment torched, that a number of soldiers had been killed and that you
12 could see fire burning. Could you tell us about a bit more about this,
13 do you know what had been set on fire, what kind of equipment or pieces
14 of armament and so on? Thank you.
15 A. General, perhaps you misunderstood or maybe I misspoke. My
16 commander probably received information from those who could observe
17 this. Maybe it was by the 4th Battalion or the Boskovic Battalion, I
18 don't know. But it boils down to this: They said that they had seen the
19 fire up there and that a number of soldiers had been killed and that some
20 equipment was destroyed. We could not observe that portion. We did not
21 have a line of visibility. Now, had we been on the line at the time,
22 perhaps we could have seen this but we did not.
23 Q. Thank you. Well, that's all I wanted because -- for the purposes
24 of the record. Now, could you please tell us, did such combat extend to
25 the 16th? So was there combat in the sector covered by your battalion?
1 Thank you.
2 A. As I've already said, on the 16th of July in early -- early in
3 the morning I was at the forward command post. Or rather, he had ordered
4 me to go to the 4th Company to the left flank of our battalion and to be
5 in the trench there where we could maintain communication, radio
6 communication. That's where I went early in the morning. And in the
7 early morning hours, let's say about 4.00 or 5.00, because it was
8 summertime, I could judge, fierce combat began. And from Nezuk and
9 Zaseok and maybe even Medjedja, artillery mortar fire was opened on our
10 positions, and on the other side, our neighbouring battalion was under a
11 fierce attack by Muslim forces. We couldn't see this but we could hear
12 it -- or rather, in the direction of the 4th Battalion, which was to the
13 left of our forces. However, it was foggy, we couldn't really see much.
14 We could just hear a lot of noise and we could hear voices saying, you
15 know, Kill them, massacre them, slit their throats and so on. But we
16 couldn't really see anything because it was -- there was dense fog and --
17 but we received a lot of fire, perhaps hundreds of thousands of shells
18 fell on our positions on that day and many people were wounded and
20 Q. Something was omitted in the transcript, the portions where you
21 said about what these people who were attacking were shouting and from
22 what positions they came and what direction they were going to. Now,
23 please always indicate what direction the attacks came from. You said
24 they were coming from the front line, we know that's in Nezuk, but you
25 should also say from the forces that were being established in
1 Srebrenica. Coming from Srebrenica.
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, what do you want to know from the
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] My question first was which forces
5 attacked the neighbouring battalion, and the witness mentioned this, but
6 it did not -- it was not recorded in the transcript. And second, which
7 forces were attacking from the direction of Srebrenica.
8 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Please answer these questions.
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Our defence line, the defence line
10 of the 6th Battalion, or rather, the entire line was under artillery fire
11 from Nezuk, Zaseok, and Medjedja. And the 4th Battalion, which was to
12 our left, and their positions were on a hill, were also under mortar fire
13 and they were attacked from the rear by the Muslim forces that were
14 moving from the direction of Srebrenica towards them, trying to break
16 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
17 Q. Thank you. Could you tell us please what kind of -- how did
18 this -- how did the troops that were advancing from Srebrenica and coming
19 behind your lines, how did they behave, what did they yell out, what was
20 characteristic of their conduct? The reason I'm asking this is that
21 what -- your earlier words were not recorded in the transcript.
22 A. I understand. The 4th Battalion, which was to the left of our
23 6th Battalion, or rather, the command, was in Baljkovica which was in a
24 valley, and on that morning it was covered in fog. We couldn't see
25 anything. When early in the morning the combat operations began, we
1 could only hear the shouting and the clamour and a lot of shooting.
2 "Allahu Akbar," and "Kill them," and "Slaughter them," and that's all we
3 could hear. We couldn't see anything.
4 Q. Thank you. Tell us now, did you also hear fire, did you hear
5 artillery fire or infantry fire? Thank you.
6 A. Well, there was both artillery and infantry fire.
7 Q. Thank you. Please tell us how did all this end on the 15th and
8 did it continue on the 16th? So how did the combat go on? How did it --
9 and how long did it go on for? Thank you.
10 A. General, what I've just talked about was early in the morning on
11 the 16th of July in 1995, so this began early in the morning at dawn both
12 infantry and artillery fire was opened, and it went on for perhaps up
13 until the afternoon. And as I've already said, I had losses in the
14 4th Company and later on, around 1.30, I too was wounded and taken to the
15 Zvornik hospital.
16 Now, when the combat ended on that day and what happened after my
17 wounding, I really can't tell you.
18 Q. Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to hear.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, you should realise we are just past
20 the time for the first break. We must have the first break now and we
21 will resume at 11.00.
22 The Court Officer will assist you during the break.
23 --- Recess taken at 10.33 a.m.
24 --- On resuming at 11.03 a.m.
25 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Yes, Mr. Tolimir, please continue.
1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.
2 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
3 Q. Since you said -- actually, not that you said but it's a fact
4 that you were wounded on the 16th, I don't want to ask you about that
5 anymore because then it would be second-hand information. I just want to
6 ask you about things that you yourself can confirm.
7 During your cross-examination here on page 1337, the Prosecutor
8 asked you whether you questioned prisoners and whether that was among
9 your tasks, and you said that you considered it your duty to sends Muslim
10 prisoners to the brigade. Can you please tell us which year that was and
11 did that refer to the combat actions at that time?
12 A. This didn't relate to the July 1995 combat actions. This was in
13 1994, when a Muslim soldier was arrested and when he was brought to the
14 command and then when he was sent to the Zvornik Brigade.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, for the record, I think you were
16 referring to page 13307 instead of 1337; is that correct?
17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] You are correct, Your Honour. I
18 made the error. Thank you.
19 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
20 Q. Later during the examination on page 14, they insisted whether
21 you were in charge of interrogating witnesses during the six months that
22 you were performing these duties. And you say here for the transcript
23 during those six months while you were on duty as assistant commander for
24 security, you interrogated any of the prisoners other than this one
25 Muslim who was captured in 1994, as you described. Thank you.
1 A. No, I did not.
2 Q. Thank you. Can you now please tell us for the transcript whether
3 your role during those six months when you were assistant commander for
4 security was an advisory or a command type of function? Thank you.
5 A. General, sir, I carried out different duties in the battalion
6 ranging from assistant commander for security, assistant commander for
7 morale and finally as deputy commander for the 6th Battalion. These
8 duties that I carried out, I carried them out the way I thought they
9 should be carried out and I was listening to the orders of my commander,
10 which is what I said before. In my view, these were separate concrete
11 functions, they were not of an advisory nature at any point in time but
12 were pursuant to the rules of command and this is how we worked. And my
13 commander would know that quite well.
14 Q. Thank you. This is why I asked you in the period while you were
15 carrying out the duty ...
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Sorry, I didn't realise that. Mr. Gajic.
17 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I think I know why
18 Mr. Vanderpuye is on his feet. Mr. Tolimir on page 36 of the transcript
19 today referred to page 13 of the transcript today, not on page 1337 from
20 the Popovic case, so I'm making that correction for the transcript. He
21 wanted to refer to actually pages 13 and 14 of today's transcript.
22 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much. Now we have it.
23 MR. VANDERPUYE: He is correct.
24 JUDGE FLUEGGE: We have it clear on the record. Please carry on,
25 Mr. Tolimir.
1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
2 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
3 Q. I asked you, sir, whether during the six months while you were
4 assistant for security, were you able to issue orders, and if so, to whom
5 did you issue orders as assistant commander for security, or was it the
6 case that during that time you were carrying out some other function?
7 Thank you.
8 A. I was not able to issue any orders. I was only receiving orders.
9 Q. Thank you. At that time were you able to make any suggestions or
10 proposals or provide advice about how things should be done to somebody
11 who would perhaps request your advice? Thank you.
12 A. From what I can recall of my work, no advice was sought from me.
13 None of the commanders asked for advice from me.
14 Q. On page 13308 -- I am sorry, I've got the wrong page. I
15 apologise to the interpreters. During the Popovic testimony on
16 page 13001 [as interpreted], lines 1 and 2, you said that Ostoja Stanisic
17 took 20 or 30 soldiers to the brigade because those soldiers were
18 supposed to go to Snagovo. On the basis of what you've said, my question
19 is, are you able to tell us why these soldiers were needed in Snagovo and
20 what was the point of sending them to that sector? Thank you.
21 A. What I know is that my commander, on the 14th of July, took a
22 platoon, I don't know exactly how many men that was, one platoon of
23 soldiers to the Zvornik Brigade because he was asked to bring them so
24 that they could be sent to Snagovo because it was probably assessed that
25 the Muslim forces moving from the direction of Srebrenica could endanger
1 the town of Zvornik itself and the Serb-inhabited settlements.
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Gajic.
3 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, just one small
4 correction. On page 38, line 15, the correct transcript reference would
5 be 13301. This is the Popovic transcript.
6 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you. Mr. Tolimir.
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Gajic. Thank you,
8 Mr. Milosevic.
9 MR. TOLIMIR: [Interpretation]
10 Q. Mr. Milosevic, since you were wounded, did you perhaps hear later
11 how the fighting ended in the area where you were wounded and in the
12 neighbouring section of the battalion that was there? How did that
13 fighting end? What was the outcome? Thank you.
14 A. Since I was wounded on the 16th of July between 1.00 and
15 2.00 p.m. and taken to the hospital, there were visits. There were many
16 wounded in the hospital including myself, so these wounded people
17 received many visits, and what I heard was that the fighting that day was
18 fierce, it went on for hours in the afternoon. And then at the end of
19 that day it all ended with the Muslim forces passing across our lines
20 where that battalion was and that everything that was in front of them
21 they killed, they burned, and they went to the Muslim territory to the
22 village of Nezuk more precisely. This is what I heard. I wasn't there,
23 so I wasn't able to see that.
24 Q. For the transcript, can you please tell us what Muslim forces
25 these were?
1 A. These were Muslim forces that were moving from the direction of
3 Q. Thank you.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Milosevic, for your
5 answers. Thank you for coming to testify. I wish you a happy stay and
6 good luck in your future work.
7 I have now finished my cross-examination. Mr. President, I would
8 like to thank you as well. I have completed my cross-examination of this
9 witness. Thank you.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much, Mr. Tolimir.
11 Mr. Vanderpuye, do you have re-examination?
12 MR. VANDERPUYE: No, Mr. President.
13 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Sir, you will be pleased to hear that this
14 concludes your testimony. You are now free to return to your normal
15 activities, and the Chamber would like to thank you for your attendance
16 here today and the assistance you were able to provide us and we wish you
17 also a safe journey back. Thank you very much again and you are free now
18 to leave the courtroom.
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
20 [The witness withdrew]
21 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, how is the situation?
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: Well, Mr. President, we have no further
23 witnesses to finish the time that we have remaining in the day. I don't
24 know if there are any housekeeping matters perhaps we can attend to in
25 order to dispose of those matters while we have some available time, I
1 don't think so. But otherwise, as you know, we discharged one witness
2 who we did not anticipate would be able to testify this week in advance
3 of the situation that arose the other day and that's the reason why we
4 don't have anybody at this time.
5 JUDGE FLUEGGE: As we are not sitting next week, I think this is
6 an accepted situation. We can't -- it would not be very feasible to
7 start with another witness for a few hours before a break of one week.
8 So if there's nothing else to raise or to discuss, we have to adjourn and
9 we will resume on Monday, the 18th of October, in the afternoon, 2.15, in
10 Courtroom III. We adjourn.
11 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 11.15 a.m.,
12 to be reconvened on Monday, the 18th day of
13 October, 2010, at 2.15 p.m.