Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 17876

 1                           Tuesday, 13 September 2011

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.

 5             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Good morning to everybody in the courtroom.  If

 6     there are no procedural matters, we -- Mr. McCloskey, I see you on your

 7     feet.  You have the floor.

 8             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Good morning, Mr. President, Your Honours,

 9     everyone.  Just briefly as I think everyone knows -- and could we go into

10     private session?

11             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Private.

12                           [Private session]

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Page 17877

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 5                           [Closed session]

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15                           [Open session]

16             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

17     you.

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Good morning, sir.  Welcome to the Tribunal.

19     Please read aloud the affirmation on the card which is shown to you now.

20             THE WITNESS:  [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

21     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

22             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.  Please sit down and make

23     yourself comfortable.

24             There are also in this trial protective measures in place for

25     you.  You will not be addressed by your real name but by a pseudonym, and

Page 17878

 1     now Mr. Vanderpuye for the Prosecution is commencing his

 2     examination-in-chief.

 3             You have the floor, Mr. Vanderpuye.

 4             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.  Good morning to you,

 5     Your Honours.  Good morning, everyone.

 6                           Examination by Mr. Vanderpuye:

 7        Q.   Good morning to you, Witness.  I'd like to show you -- I'd like

 8     to show you 65 ter 7539, and if you would please just take a look at that

 9     and confirm that you're the person named in this document without telling

10     us your name.

11             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  It will be on the screen in a moment.

12             MR. VANDERPUYE:

13        Q.   Witness, are you able to confirm that that's your name that

14     appears in this document?

15        A.   My surname, my last name, is correct, but there's a mistake in

16     the first letter.  Otherwise, everything is fine.

17        Q.   Very well.  Thank you.

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  We should try to clarify.

19             MR. VANDERPUYE:  I will, Mr. President.

20        Q.   The first letter that you refer to, is that -- should the first

21     letter be --

22             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Shall we go into private session for a moment?

23             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Yes, we should go into private session,

24     Mr. President.  Thank you.

25             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Private.

Page 17879

 1                           [Private session]

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13                           [Open session]

14             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

15     you.

16             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  The document 65 ter 7539 will be received.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, 65 ter document 7539 marked in

18     court by the witness shall be assigned Exhibit P2650, admitted under

19     seal.  Thank you, Your Honours.

20             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye.

21             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.

22        Q.   Witness, do you recall having testified in the case of

23     Prosecutor versus Popovic on the 10th and 11th of January, 2007?

24        A.   Yes, I do remember having testified during that time.

25        Q.   Have you had an opportunity to -- one moment.  Just a moment.

Page 17880

 1             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Gajic.

 2             MR. GAJIC:  [Interpretation] I apologise, Mr. President, but

 3     Mr. Tolimir has -- is experiencing some technical problem.  He can't hear

 4     properly through his headset.  He cannot hear the witness.  He can hear

 5     everybody else in the courtroom but not the witness.

 6             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  This problem should be resolved first.  Court

 7     usher is assisting.

 8             Mr. Gajic.

 9             MR. GAJIC:  [Interpretation] Mr. President, I propose that the

10     witness say something so that we can check to see if Mr. Tolimir is

11     receiving him.

12             THE WITNESS:  [Interpretation] Good morning.

13             MR. GAJIC:  [Interpretation] I think everything is in order now.

14             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye, you should just continue and

15     Mr. Tolimir's invited to indicate immediately if there are any problems

16     with the interpretation or receiving the original language.

17             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you again, Mr. President.

18        Q.   Witness, have you had an opportunity to listen to your testimony

19     before testifying here today, that is, your Popovic testimony?

20        A.   Yes, I have had that opportunity.

21        Q.   And having listened to your Popovic testimony, do you stand by

22     it; that is, would you give the same answers to the same questions if

23     they are put to you in this case?

24        A.   As far as possible, I would confirm everything.

25        Q.   Thank you.

Page 17881

 1             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Mr. President, I would like to offer into

 2     evidence the witness's prior testimony, which is 65 ter 7537 under seal

 3     and 7538, together with the associated exhibits that were tendered

 4     through him in that proceeding.

 5             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  The transcript of the Popovic trial will be

 6     received, the former one under seal.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, 65 ter document 7537 shall be

 8     assigned can be number P2651, admitted under seal.

 9             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  The other documents in the list which were

10     admitted in the Popovic trial will be received as well.  That means the

11     long list starting with 65 ter 1667 through 65 ter 75 -- no, sorry.

12             Mr. Vanderpuye, you should clarify which of those should be part

13     of this so-called Popovic package, especially as I see some documents

14     with a little star and the indication that they were not yet on the

15     65 ter exhibit list.

16             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Yes, Mr. President.  All of those documents were

17     tendered through the witness, that's through 7549 -- yes, through 7549.

18     The ones with the star were not on the 65 ter list originally.  Those are

19     documents that were tendered through the -- or by the Defence in the

20     other proceeding, and so they weren't originally part of our 65 ter list,

21     but they do constitute part and parcel of his testimony.  For that

22     reason, we're tendering them as well.

23             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Tolimir, the usual question again.  Do you

24     have any objections to add the documents used in the Popovic trial but

25     not yet in the 65 ter exhibit list to the 65 ter exhibit list of the

Page 17882

 1     Prosecution?  That means the documents 65 ter from 7540 through 7549.

 2     Are there any objections?

 3             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  May

 4     there be peace in this house, and may God's wishes be done and not my

 5     wish.  I would like to welcome the witness in our midst.

 6             We have no problem to have that adopted, to have the Popovic

 7     document adopted.  So we have no objection, and the Prosecutor is free to

 8     proceed as he sees fit.  Thank you.

 9             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Leave is granted to add these documents to the

10     65 ter exhibit list, and all those will be received as exhibits.  The

11     best way to put P numbers to them is by internal memorandum by the

12     registrar.

13                           [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

14             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  The transcripts of the testimony of the witness

15     in the Popovic case will be received, 65 ter 7537 under seal, and we want

16     to have the P number now.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, 65 ter 7537 has been assigned P2651

18     under seal, and the redacted one 65 ter document 7538 shall be assigned

19     Exhibit P2652.  Thank you, Your Honours.

20             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  And the other documents will get a P number by an

21     internal memorandum.

22             Please proceed, Mr. Vanderpuye.

23             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.  I have a brief

24     summary of the witness's testimony I'd like to read into the record.

25             The witness adopted his OTP witness statement of 5 May 1999 and

Page 17883

 1     provided the following evidence on the 10th and 11th of January, 2007, in

 2     the Popovic case.

 3             I'll need to go into private session for a moment, Mr. President.

 4             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Private.

 5                           [Private session]

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22                           [Open session]

23             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

24     you.

25             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye.

Page 17884

 1             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.

 2             The witness testified that there were between two and five

 3     workstations the intercept operators of the northern site used and

 4     described in detail the procedures and protocols they followed.  The

 5     witness described how he would listen to radio intercepts and recorded

 6     important conversations.  The taped conversations were transcribed into

 7     notebooks as soon as practicable after the tapes were reviewed, sometimes

 8     multiple times if necessary.  The notebooks were then given to a

 9     designated typist or cryptographer who was responsible for entering the

10     transcribed conversations into a computer and sending it off

11     electronically to the 2nd Corps command.

12             New notebooks were generally not opened until the circulating

13     notebooks were full.  Prior to February 1995, intercepts were transcribed

14     on pieces of paper rather than notebooks at the northern site.

15             The interception process was prioritised.  For example,

16     conversations involving VRS generals were considered important, whereas

17     those involving ordinary citizens tended not to yield as good

18     information.

19             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  You should slow down a little bit, I think.

20             MR. VANDERPUYE:  The witness testified that as a rule, everything

21     said during a conversation was written down.  Summaries were rare.

22     However, as important information sometimes needed to be extracted from

23     apparently unimportant conversations, brief summaries were made.  Also in

24     very urgent situations, information was relayed directly over a wire

25     communication -- a wire connection or even open telephone lines.

Page 17885

 1             The witness described how intercepts were marked.  For example,

 2     he noted that "as a rule, if something is in brackets and if there is a

 3     question mark, then the person transcribing had doubts as to the identity

 4     of that person and would ascribe another sign to that person, namely an

 5     X."  Through his experience the witness was sometimes able to identify

 6     the voices of the individuals he intercepted, including Vinko Pandurevic

 7     and Generals Simic, Zivanovic, and Tolimir.

 8             Finally, the witness identified 29 handwritten intercepts as his

 9     own.

10             Mr. President, that concludes my summary, and I have a few

11     additional questions for the witness.

12             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Yes.  Please proceed.

13             Mr. Gajic.

14             MR. GAJIC:  [Interpretation] Mr. President, I'd like an

15     explanation, namely on page 7, line 23, the Prosecutor said that the

16     witness accepted the statement given on the 9th -- on the 5th of May, but

17     I don't see it on the Prosecution list.  Is that an omission or was that

18     statement not accepted and admitted in the Popovic trial, because

19     following the Popovic trial, they had a different practice.  It was only

20     subsequently that they admitted documents into evidence.  So I'd just

21     like an explanation from Mr. Vanderpuye.

22             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye.

23             MR. VANDERPUYE:  I'm not sure if it's on our exhibit list, it may

24     not be, but in any event, it's on the first page of the transcript

25     concerning his Popovic testimony.

Page 17886

 1             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Gajic.

 2             MR. GAJIC:  [Interpretation] Mr. President, I have read the

 3     transcript from this witness's testimony in the Popovic trial, but I see

 4     that we haven't dealt with this witness's statement.  So it's not on my

 5     list, at least as far as I can see.  On the Prosecution list, that is.

 6     If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 7             MR. VANDERPUYE:  You may be right.

 8             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye.

 9             MR. VANDERPUYE:  My point is you may be right, that it might not

10     be on the exhibit list, and if it isn't that's an omission, but the

11     statement itself is directly and specifically referenced in the

12     transcript of the testimony.  What I've read is a summary of that

13     testimony, and so if there's any uncertainty as to whether or not the

14     witness said what he -- what he did about his statement, that can be

15     found in the first page of his testimony in Popovic case which Mr. Gajic

16     has indicated that he's read.  If there's an omission in the exhibit

17     list, I will remedy that by providing that -- that -- that exhibit.  If

18     it was admitted.  It may not have been, but it was specifically referred

19     to nonetheless.

20             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Are you referring to the OTP -- witness statement

21     of 5th of May, 1999?

22             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Indeed.

23             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  You may proceed, and we will see whether or not

24     you will use this or not or if the Defence will use it or not.

25             MR. VANDERPUYE:  You may have noticed that it is referred to in

Page 17887

 1     the statements of the witness that is appended to the exhibit list, and I

 2     think that's quite explicit in that list.  It's just a question of

 3     whether or not it appears also in the category of exhibits that were

 4     admitted through the witness, which I don't believe it does, but like I

 5     said that's probably just an omission that needs to be corrected.

 6             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Indeed, it is the first item in the attachment to

 7     the exhibit list to be used with the witness by the Prosecution.  Without

 8     a 65 ter number but with the ERN numbers and the date of disclosure in

 9     English and B/C/S to the Defence.

10             Please go ahead, Mr. Vanderpuye.

11             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.  I'll need to go into

12     private session for just a moment.

13             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  We turn into private session.

14                           [Private session]

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

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25   (redacted)

Page 17888











11 Pages 17888-17889 redacted. Private session.
















Page 17890

 1   (redacted)

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 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10                           [Open session]

11             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

12     you.

13             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  I take it, Mr. Vanderpuye, that you're tendering

14     65 ter 3045E, but not A.

15             MR. VANDERPUYE:  I would actually like to tender all versions of

16     it, Mr. President.  They are A and E, and they are the same intercept.

17     One is a handwritten, and one is a printout version of that intercept.

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.  Both versions will be

19     received as exhibits.  That one with a letter E under seal.

20             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, 65 ter document 3045E shall be

21     assigned Exhibit P2653, admitted under seal.  And 65 ter document 3045A

22     shall be assigned Exhibit P2654.  Thank you, Your Honours.

23             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye.

24             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.

25        Q.   Witness, when we met yesterday, did you have an opportunity to

Page 17891

 1     look over five intercepts that were shown to you?

 2        A.   I saw copies of those intercepts in my handwriting.

 3        Q.   And would those have been intercepts that you took down during

 4     the course and scope of your duties and responsibilities as an intercept

 5     operator back in July 1995?

 6        A.   The copies I saw correspond to my handwriting and the manner in

 7     which we wrote down the intercepted conversations.

 8        Q.   What I'd like you to do if you could, and you'll let me know if

 9     it's necessary, is take a look at tabs 1 through 5, the very last ones in

10     the binder that I indicated before, and from that point on -- and take a

11     look and see if you can recognise your handwriting in the intercepts that

12     are contained under each of those tabs.

13        A.   Yes.  Except for one tab where the handwriting belongs to another

14     colleague, all the rest are in my handwriting.

15        Q.   And which tab are you referring to?

16        A.   In tab 3, the handwriting is that of a colleague of mine above my

17     handwriting, so part of that document is in my handwriting.  Yes.  And

18     there's another page before that.  I apologise.

19        Q.   Okay.  Is the page before that in your handwriting?

20        A.   Yes.

21             MR. VANDERPUYE:  For the record, Mr. President, tabs 1 through 5

22     are 65 ter numbers -- I think we've just received tab 2.  We've just

23     gotten a P number for.  So it's 65 ter number 3475, and then we have A

24     and C -- B and C, and then we have the tab 2 which was just admitted in

25     evidence, then we have P2488.  That's tab 3, which consists of -- oh.  I

Page 17892

 1     see we have -- and also I'd like to tender 65 ter 3070D, which is the

 2     printout under that tab of the intercept.  And then we have under tab

 3     4 -- under tab 4 we have 65 ter 3107A and C, and under tab 5, 65 ter

 4     3108A and B.

 5             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  You have finished with reading the numbers of

 6     those documents you want to have -- having been admitted; is that

 7     correct?

 8             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Yes, Mr. President.

 9                           [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

10             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  So these documents under tab 1, 3, 4, 5, will be

11     admitted into evidence, but I will read the numbers into the transcript,

12     because the registrar doesn't have a binder.

13             Firstly, 65 ter 347B -- sorry, again.  65 ter 3475B and C will be

14     received as exhibits, the first one under seal.

15             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, 65 ter document 3475B shall be

16     assigned Exhibit P2655, admitted under seal.  And the 65 ter document

17     3475C shall and assigned Exhibit P2656.  Thank you, Your Honours.

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.  65 ter 3107A and C will be received

19     as exhibits, the latter one under seal.

20             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, 65 ter document 3107A shall be

21     assigned Exhibit 2657.  And 65 ter document 3107C shall be assigned

22     Exhibit P2658, admitted under seal.  Thank you.

23             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.  We continue 65 ter 3108A and B will

24     be received as exhibits, the latter one end seal.

25             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, 65 ter 3108A shall be assigned

Page 17893

 1     Exhibit P2659.  And the 65 ter document 3108B shall be assigned

 2     Exhibit P2660, admitted under seal.  Thank you.

 3             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  And lastly -- and lastly, the Exhibit 65 ter

 4     3070D will be received under seal.

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honour, 65 ter 3070D shall be assigned

 6     Exhibit P2661, admitted under seal.  Thank you.

 7             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  I'm not quite sure if we have already received

 8     the other two under tab 2.  I think so, but I'm not sure.  We should

 9     check that again.

10             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.  I believe we did

11     receive that just a moment ago.  It's been given P2654 and P2653

12     respectively.  That's A and E versions.

13             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you indeed.  Then we have this resolved,

14     and I just would like to put on the record the reason for admission of

15     these documents.  The witness has confirmed that he saw in the original

16     document his handwriting, except one part of one page.

17             Please continue.

18             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.  I'd like to show the

19     witness 65 -- well, I think we have an exhibit number now.  It's tab 1.

20     65 ter -- I'm sorry, P2656 -- yeah, P2656 is fine.

21        Q.   Witness, I'd like to draw your attention to -- I think we're

22     waiting for the translation.  Yes.  To the entry here indicated at

23     channel 11 21:43, and we can see here an indication that this is a

24     conversation between an individual named Krsmanovic and someone named

25     Toso.  First, are you familiar with those names?  Can you recall those

Page 17894

 1     names in the context of your work back then?

 2        A.   Well, there are many names I can't recall, and I can't recall

 3     these names either.

 4        Q.   All right.  Now, with respect to this particular intercept, it

 5     says that Krsmanovic, in a conversation or "discussion with Toso about

 6     the problem of transportation that Krsmanovic mentioned 10 buses and 14

 7     trucks in relation to the means that are not requisitioned."  And then in

 8     quotes it says:  "That was the situation today."

 9             First, is this an example of a summary of an intercepted

10     communication?

11        A.   As a rule, this is a conversation which was probably not

12     especially important, so what might have been interesting for our command

13     was extracted from it.  If a conversation is evaluated as unimportant but

14     there's something that might be useful in it, then that bit is extracted.

15        Q.   All right.  I'd like to show you a printout of this conversation,

16     which is P2655, and you'll see it under tab 1.  You'll see the

17     typewritten version of this conversation at the third page of that

18     typewritten --

19             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  This should not be broadcast.

20             MR. VANDERPUYE:

21        Q.   -- transcript.  First let me start with the top -- with this

22     document that's on the screen, page 1, which indicates the location and

23     the date of 16 July 1995.  The report number --

24             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye, you should wait until we have the

25     English translation on the screen.

Page 17895

 1             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.

 2             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  And again, it should not be broadcast.

 3             MR. VANDERPUYE:  I'm not sure that the caption of the document

 4     has been translated.  I think only the intercept has been translated in

 5     the English.

 6             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Okay.  Please continue.

 7             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.

 8        Q.   In any event you can see at the top it says Armija Republika

 9     Bosne i Hercegovine, and then it says the command of the 2nd Corps, and

10     then it indicates the location case which we've not -- which we haven't

11     referred to directly, because it's -- then you can see the date of 16

12     July 1995, and then the report number which is 25/16795.

13             Below that we can see the time of the first intercept in this

14     report series at 19:41 hours.  And if we go to page 3 of the document in

15     the B/C/S, we will see an entry for 21:43, channel 9 [sic], which is the

16     conversation that we just saw, it's at the bottom of the page, that we

17     just saw in your handwriting a few moments ago.

18             So with respect to this particular intercept, would it be correct

19     to say that it was recorded -- I mean, written down by you close in time

20     to when the conversation actually occurred?

21             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Gajic.

22             MR. GAJIC:  [Interpretation] Mr. President, on page 20, line 8,

23     it says "channel 9."  However, as far as I can see, at least from the

24     printed version I have here on the screen, it's channel 11.

25             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye.

Page 17896

 1             MR. VANDERPUYE:  It should be channel 11.  It's channel 11 in the

 2     handwritten, and it should be channel 11 in the printout which I think we

 3     can all see, so perhaps it's just an error in the transcript.

 4             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  The other possibility is that you misspoke.

 5             MR. VANDERPUYE:  A very remote one, but thank you, Mr. President.

 6        Q.   Would it be fair to say that this conversation would have been

 7     transcribed, that is written down by you, close in time to when the

 8     conversation itself occurred?

 9        A.   I believe that is the case, yes.

10        Q.   And would that have been given to the typist and inputted in the

11     computer to generate this typewritten information on the date that's

12     reflected in the caption of this report, that is, the 16th of July, 1995?

13        A.   That was the practice.  Information would be given to the

14     communications guy on duty to be forwarded to the command.

15        Q.   And just so that I'm clear anyway, the reference here to Toso, do

16     you have a recollection of who that would have been or who that was back

17     then in July 1995, to your knowledge?

18        A.   I can't recall.  It escapes me at the moment.  I don't know who

19     the person was.

20        Q.   All right.  I just have one more document to show you, and

21     that's -- and that's P773.  Just a moment and I'll give you the

22     handwritten -- P773B, please.  That should be the handwritten version of

23     this intercept.

24             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Where can we find it in the binder?

25             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thanks, Mr. President.  Just a moment, and

Page 17897

 1     I'll ...

 2             You will find that under tab 25, Mr. President.

 3        Q.   Here we have an intercept from the 22nd of July, 1995.  It's

 4     timed at 9:28 hours, and it indicates that this is a conversation between

 5     Popovic, it says X, and General Tolimir.  In this conversation we can see

 6     that P is looking for General Tolimir and X says that he's right next to

 7     him.  P asks to speak to him and says, "This is Popovic."  And then we

 8     can see the transition and apparently T gets -- Tolimir gets on the

 9     phone.  And we have a conversation that ensues where Popovic is trying to

10     find out some information concerning a relative of his so that he can

11     tell the family something.

12             Do you have a present recollection of who the Popovic is that's

13     in this -- is a speaker in this intercept?

14        A.   It's been a long time, so I don't remember either the

15     participants in the conversation or the details of it, so I can only

16     assume, which isn't very helpful to you.

17        Q.   And the General Tolimir that's indicated here, do you have a

18     present recollection about him?

19        A.   There were several conversations, as far as I remember, where the

20     general appeared, either himself or he was -- people asked to speak to

21     him, but I don't remember the details.

22        Q.   But in any case, the General Tolimir that's referred to here, I

23     take it, was a VRS officer.

24        A.   Yes, a very important person as far as we were concerned, those

25     of us who intercepted these conversations.

Page 17898

 1        Q.   If we go to the second page in the B/C/S, we can see here at the

 2     top of the page that Popovic is trying to get certain information, and

 3     lower down on the page we can see that General Tolimir asks him how

 4     things are going, and we can see that Popovic's response is that there

 5     are no problems, and he says that he's at his base.  He also says that

 6     there's some business to be finished.  And if we go to the next page in

 7     English, and I think we can go down the page in the B/C/S.  We'll see

 8     that General Tolimir tells him to just do his job.  And if we go to the

 9     next page, I think, in the B/C/S, we may see the same thing.

10             Has it -- let me ask it this way:  Did -- did you have

11     information about a Popovic VRS officer while you were doing this

12     particular function?  Did you know of any particular Popovic VRS officer?

13        A.   I don't remember.  There were many officers.  I don't remember

14     Popovic specifically.  Perhaps if we talked at the time, but I don't

15     know.

16        Q.   All right.  Let me ask you just a couple of questions and then

17     we'll be finished.

18             Were you aware of any Popovic that worked in the Drina Corps of

19     the VRS?

20        A.   I knew -- well, I heard, whether then or later, I had heard of

21     the man who led the Bratunac Brigade, and I heard a conversation

22     somewhere in the evening at around 8.00 when this man was engaged in a

23     conversation.  He'd come back from the location.

24        Q.   All right.  Well, thank you very much, Witness.  I appreciate

25     your testimony, and that concludes my direct examination.

Page 17899

 1             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.

 2             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much, Mr. Vanderpuye.

 3             Sir, now Mr. Tolimir has the opportunity to put questions to you

 4     during his cross-examination.

 5             Mr. Tolimir, you have the floor.

 6             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.  I'd like

 7     to greet all those present once again, the witness, too, and wish him a

 8     pleasant stay here with us.

 9                           Cross-examination by Mr. Tolimir:

10        Q.   [Interpretation] Now, could you tell us, please, in this summary

11     here and in your answers, we could see that you went to some sort of

12     course, attended a course, before you started working in the unit -- in

13     the Anti-Electronic Warfare Unit as Mr. Vanderpuye said during his

14     examination-in-chief.  Is that correct?  And could you tell us what that

15     course was and how long it lasted?

16        A.   I arrived in the unit in August 1994, and I started working

17     before the course got going.  The course started sometime in the second

18     half of September and went on for the first half of October of 1994.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell us, please, whether that was the only

20     course you attended, or did you have any additional training in some

21     other unit, perhaps, or in your corps or outside your corps, or outside

22     the army, for that matter?  Thank you.

23        A.   No.  There was no other training, just that course which was

24     organised in Sarajevo.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell us whether, having done your military

Page 17900

 1     service, you were sent to any other training courses abroad or outside

 2     Bosnia-Herzegovina?  Thank you.

 3        A.   Having done my military service, I was a member -- well, that was

 4     my obligation in the Territorial Defence and later on civilian

 5     protection, but I didn't go anywhere else.  I didn't go abroad with

 6     respect to the establishment in the Territorial Defence and civilian

 7     protection system.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell us now whether you have tapes of those

 9     29 conversations that you were shown and that you transcribed in your own

10     hand?  Thank you.

11        A.   I don't believe tapes like that exist.  Perhaps some tape might

12     still remain, but they were used again.  They were deleted.  So I doubt

13     very much whether the tapes of those 29 conversations exist.  Perhaps

14     there were some earlier tapes before, before 1995, but I don't know about

15     that.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell us, please, whether you were shown

17     during the proofing session with Mr. Vanderpuye, when he showed you the

18     conversations, whether there was someone from the chain of command above

19     you who used those transcripts, the ones that you transcribed in your own

20     hand?  Thank you.

21        A.   Well, linked to the chain of command on the ground on my shift I

22     was the person who was, if I can put it that way, in charge, the first

23     person in the chain of command in that process.  So nobody else looked at

24     that -- at those transcriptions, but when it did go to the command, I

25     didn't have any feedback information.  So that is just linked to my own

Page 17901

 1     handwritten transcripts.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Now, of the transcripts that you were shown here

 3     which are originals and the Prosecutor showed you, on any of those

 4     conversations that you transcribed in your own handwriting were -- were

 5     there any initials by any of the users of the information up the chain of

 6     command above you?  Did anybody initial any of those transcripts?

 7        A.   No.  I didn't see any markings like that, any signature or

 8     initials.  There was just this -- the signature of the signalsman who

 9     forwarded this.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Now, Mr. Vanderpuye showed you a document of a

11     conversation between Krsmanovic and Toso, and I quote -- I forgot to make

12     a note of the tab.  It's tab 3.  Krsmanovic says in a discussion about

13     the problems of transport with the participant Toso, "he mentioned some

14     10 buses and 14 trucks, 9 with regard to -- well, things that have not

15     been mobilised," and then that's the end of the quotation, and then in

16     brackets it says, "That was the case today," in inverted commas.

17             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Gajic, I think it's another tab.  Could you

18     assist us.

19             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, it's tab 1,

20     Exhibit P2656.

21             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.

22             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Aleksandar.  I apologise

23     if you weren't able to follow me.

24        Q.   So let's look at tab 1 now, document P2656.  Was that the right

25     number?  So if you could read that and then I'll ask you a question.

Page 17902

 1             Would you be able to identify this person Toso and Krsmanovic on

 2     the basis of this note on their conversation?  Thank you.

 3        A.   I don't know who these people are.  The conversation is so short

 4     that I don't believe I can say any more than that.  I really don't know

 5     who those two men were.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  But if the Court were to establish -- need to

 7     establish who these people are, could you identify the participants given

 8     a description?  Thank you.

 9        A.   I can't say any more than I've already said and any more than is

10     written here.  They introduced themselves.  They said what they said.  I

11     transcribed and took note of what they said, and that's all I can tell

12     you.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Now, is this a summary of what they said or is it

14     direct speech?  Is it their direct speech or related speech?

15        A.   Well, I see that we have both, a quotation and a summary.  So

16     it's a combination of the two.  The inverted commas were quotation, and I

17     had to round it off for the command so that they could understand.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell us what the quoted part of the

19     conversation is and which participant in the conversation uttered those

20     words?

21        A.   In brackets is the quotation.  Now, since I did not conduct a

22     detailed analysis, I assume it was Mr. Krsmanovic who said that.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Is that your assumption or can you claim that with

24     certainty?  And on the basis of this related conversation, can we

25     actually ever establish who said what?  Thank you.

Page 17903

 1        A.   This isn't a conversation that was conducted in the usual

 2     procedure.  Well, not conversation.  I mean transcription.  The

 3     transcription wasn't made according to standard procedure, so we can't

 4     see who said what.  So it's difficult to identify anything.  This is just

 5     my assumption, and I can no longer remember who said what, actually.  We

 6     see what it says here, and that's the best I can do.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Now, are there any conversations which you were shown

 8     here at the Tribunal as transcripts of the source that there is -- that

 9     was initialled by the user of the information?

10        A.   No, I haven't seen any such conversation here.  Well, I

11     apologise.  Let me be more precise.  You said in the original version.

12     In the original version, I have never seen anything like that except some

13     handwriting and some additional figures, numbers.  Otherwise, nothing

14     more than that.

15        Q.   Thank you, sir.  I'm not going to say your name because you're a

16     protected witness.  Thank you for coming here to testify today.  The

17     Defence has no further questions four.  May God bless you and I wish you

18     bon voyage back home.

19             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Defence rests.

20     We have further questions for this witness, thank you.

21             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye, do you have re-examination?

22             MR. VANDERPUYE:  No, Mr. President, I don't.

23             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Sir, you will be pleased to hear that this

24     concludes already your examination here in this trial.  Now you are free

25     to return to your normal activities and go home.  The Chamber would like

Page 17904

 1     to thank you for coming here to The Hague and for assisting us.

 2             The court usher will assist you in leaving the courtroom.  We go

 3     into closed session for a moment to enable you to leave the courtroom.

 4             THE WITNESS:  [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.

 5                           [Closed session]

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12                           [Open session]

13             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

14     you.

15             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.

16             Mr. Vanderpuye, I see you on your feet.

17             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Yes, Mr. President.  I had a chance to look over

18     the exhibit sheet in relation to the statement that Mr. Gajic was

19     remarking about, and I did find it, actually, on there.  It's already

20     admitted in this case under P839, and it's on page 9 of the exhibit

21     sheet.

22             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Correct.  I found it as well.  It's under seal.

23             Mr. Gajic, do you agree?

24             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] I have no reason to believe

25     Mr. Vanderpuye.  I assume there must be a list.  I probably have a

Page 17905

 1     different list because one, two, or three lists have circulated, so quite

 2     possibly I have a previous list.

 3             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Gajic, I take it that you --

 4             THE INTERPRETER:  "I have no reason not to believe

 5     Mr. Vanderpuye."  Interpreter's correction.

 6             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Indeed, this is what I thought you would have

 7     said.  As always in this trial, that's a common understanding and a good

 8     trust.

 9             Mr. Gajic.

10             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, yes.  I was

11     misinterpreted.  What I said was I have no reason not to believe

12     Mr. Vanderpuye.

13             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you for that.

14             Mr. Vanderpuye.

15             MR. VANDERPUYE:  Thank you, Mr. President.  There are also a

16     number of -- on page 11 of the exhibit sheet, we have a number of

17     notebooks, full notebooks, that have been MFI'd.  I don't see that

18     there's any reason to tender those fully.  We don't have translations for

19     the entire notebook.

20                           [Prosecutor and case manager confer]

21             MR. VANDERPUYE:  We are not intending to translate the entire

22     notebook because we don't think that it's necessary in order for the

23     purposes of -- for the purposes of their admissibility.  I don't know if

24     the Defence has a problem with that, but -- so if that's an obstacle to

25     their admission, then so be it, but we still think that they're

Page 17906

 1     admissible for the purposes for which they were tendered.  Some of them

 2     were tendered simply because of what they depicted on the cover or to

 3     establish that there were registration numbers in the notebooks and so on

 4     and which we don't think need -- requires the translation of the entire

 5     notebook in order for them to be admissible.  So it's our intention not

 6     to translate them in their entirety and -- but I understand that they

 7     were marked for identification pending translation of the entire book.

 8     So I think that's an issue that I will discuss with Mr. Gajic to see

 9     whether or not he has any objection to that, but I think otherwise our

10     position would be -- or we would request that they be admitted without

11     the translation.

12             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Vanderpuye, you haven't used these documents

13     with the witness or with any other witness, if I'm not mistaken.

14             MR. VANDERPUYE:  I'm sorry, Mr. President.  Have we used this

15     documents with other witnesses?  Was that the question?

16             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  No.  This is -- in that part of your list where

17     you say "used with the witness but admitted with other witnesses in prior

18     proceedings."

19             MR. VANDERPUYE:  This is correct.

20             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  That means it was not used with the last witness

21     who was testifying today.

22             MR. VANDERPUYE:  That's correct.

23             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  And therefore we have no formal ground to admit

24     them into evidence.

25             MR. VANDERPUYE:  This is the reason why I raise it.  The -- the

Page 17907

 1     ground for their -- their admission through evidence -- I have to

 2     actually determine what witness they came in through, but I thought I

 3     would address it because it is on his -- on his sheet, and obviously we

 4     don't have any other intercept operators coming to testify in this case.

 5     So --

 6                           [Prosecutor and case manager confer]

 7             MR. VANDERPUYE:  So I thought it would be important to address

 8     it.  Perhaps we can reach some sort of an understanding with the Defence

 9     with respect to whether or not -- whether or not all of these will

10     require translation.  I don't believe that they do, because I think they

11     were either admitted or used under very limited purposes or for limited

12     purposes.  In any event, we don't believe that we need them translated

13     fully, because some of them contain hundreds of intercepts, in order to

14     establish the purpose for which they were admitted.  I raise it now

15     because it's on his sheet.  I understand they were also admitted in the

16     prior case through PW-041 who was a witness in this case as well.  There

17     were circumstances under which -- there were extenuating circumstances

18     with respect to that witness's testimony, which may also explain why

19     those documents weren't used with him.  If we can go into private

20     session, I can explain that to you.

21             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  We go into private session.

22                           [Private session]

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 17908











11 Pages 17908-17910 redacted. Private session.
















Page 17911

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4                           [Open session]

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

 6     you.

 7             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.  Since we don't have another

 8     witness for today, I assume, there is no.  We should take the opportunity

 9     to continue our hearing after the break, because there are some reasons

10     for -- to discuss procedural matters, how to proceed in this trial, but

11     we should have a slightly longer break to enable the Chamber to consider

12     the situation, and I think we should have our break now and resume at

13     11.30, and perhaps the Prosecution is in a position to update us in

14     relation to the last witness.

15             We adjourn and resume half past 11.00.

16                           --- Recess taken at 10.34 a.m.

17                           --- On resuming at 11.32 a.m.

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  This part of today's hearing is only to deal with

19     procedural matters.

20             Mr. McCloskey, do we have any more information in relation to the

21     remaining witness?  Mr. McCloskey.

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 17912

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5                           [Private session]

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 17913

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7                           [Open session]

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

 9     you.

10             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  The Chamber now wants to deal with the matter of

11     scheduling for the remainder of the case.

12             First of all, the Chamber expects that the Prosecution closes its

13     case after the completion of the possible testimony of the final witness

14     who was scheduled for this week.

15             The Chamber is considering the views of the parties with respect

16     to the planning of the remainder of the case and will be issuing a

17     Scheduling Order setting out specific deadlines and dates shortly.

18     Before doing so, however, the Chamber would like to give an indication to

19     the parties of its current intentions.

20             The Chamber envisions to order the Defence to file the following

21     on the 1st of December or earlier:  A list of witnesses and the nature of

22     these witnesses, their 65 ter summaries, and the points in the indictment

23     to which the witness will testify; the estimated length required for each

24     witness and the total time for the Defence case; the 65 ter exhibit list;

25     the list of expert witnesses and the accompanying curriculum vitae and

Page 17914

 1     reports of those witnesses; any Rule 92 bis, ter, or quater motions.

 2             The Chamber envisions further that there will and pre-Defence

 3     conference the first day after the break, that is, on the 9th of January,

 4     2012, with any opening statement, and the first witness to follow

 5     immediately thereafter.

 6             Finally, the Chamber envisions to hold a Status Conference on the

 7     5th of December in order to review the progress between the parties.

 8             I would now like to ask the parties if they have any position

 9     with respect to this possible scheduling which the Chamber has in mind.

10             Mr. McCloskey.

11             MR. McCLOSKEY:  That sounds fine with the Prosecution.  I think

12     that's -- that's more than -- more than reasonable, and is no problem

13     from our perspective.

14             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you.

15             Mr. Gajic.

16             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I'm happy to hear that

17     the Chamber has handed down its decision more or less as we requested, so

18     I would like to thank the Chamber for its understanding.

19             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Thank you very much.  However, to clarify, this

20     was not the order, the final order, it was just information given by the

21     Chamber about the intentions of the Chamber, but a written decision will

22     follow in due course.

23             If there are no objections, no additional submissions, we can

24     leave it like it is.

25             Mr. Gajic, anything else?

Page 17915

 1             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, we would just like to

 2     receive some information about the next witness, when that witness might

 3     possibly appear in court, because we have to plan our activities.

 4     There's a lot of work awaiting the Defence.  This legal assistant or

 5     advisor has to travel to Belgrade.  So what is the time period in which

 6     we will learn whether the witness will appear or not and be certain if

 7     he's not coming that he's not coming?  We would be very grateful to the

 8     Prosecution if they could tell us something about this.

 9             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  We turn into private session.

10                           [Private session]

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

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22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 17916











11 Page 17916 redacted. Private session.















Page 17917

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18                           [Open session]

19             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

20     you.

21             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  In that case, we adjourn until further notice

22     without an indication of a new day of hearing.  That will be pronounced

23     in the normal way.

24             Mr. McCloskey.

25             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Mr. President, I do have some information that I

Page 17918

 1     think will help the Court and the parties in planning.  If you want to

 2     take -- it shouldn't take me more than a few minutes.  It's related to

 3     when you'd asked us if there was a point where the Defence and the

 4     Prosecution could get together and decide about other issues, and much of

 5     this I -- we have now identified, and we do need to meet with Mr. Gajic

 6     on, but I can tell you just -- because there's a few outstanding issues

 7     that we owe you information on, and if we could go into private session.

 8             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Private again.

 9                           [Private session]

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

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22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 17919

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6                           [Open session]

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back in open session, Your Honours.  Thank

 8     you.

 9             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. McCloskey.

10             MR. McCLOSKEY:  And related to intercepts, as the Court is aware,

11     we have many intercepts in this case that it's been the Prosecution's

12     strategy and position to call the intercept supervisors so that you would

13     understand the intercepts from the big picture and to call individual

14     intercept operators that had important intercepts, many of which were

15     acts and conduct under that rule.

16             As you are aware, that leaves many other intercepts where no

17     intercept operator has testified but that are relevant, important

18     intercepts to this case, and what we traditionally have done in all the

19     cases, as we intend to do here, is file a motion to introduce those other

20     intercepts under 89(C) since that we have -- it's -- we base this largely

21     on the practice of business records is -- is what I would compare it to,

22     and that since you have now seen the process, you know how it works, you

23     know that these materials were done in a certain way at a time related to

24     their date and that under 89(C) you would now have the ability to allow

25     these other intercepts into evidence to help give a -- give a complete

Page 17920

 1     package of Srebrenica intercepts, and what we have -- will have for you

 2     along with that motion is an index of the intercepts, basically mostly

 3     starting in July, working our way through August 1st.  Well, you may

 4     remember the last few intercepts talk about people going across the

 5     river.  And so you have an index with a little summary of the intercepts,

 6     the time, the people that are speaking on them.  And so you have right in

 7     front of you the historical chronology of the intercepts that would

 8     reflect the intercepts that are in evidence and the ones that we're

 9     offering into evidence.

10             We wait until the end here so that we know which intercepts we

11     don't have to offer into evidence because so many are in.  So I just

12     wanted to alert you.  We do plan on filing that very, very soon, that --

13     that intercept motion.

14             Also, you may recall that we've -- we have a trial video that is

15     in evidence that was a compilation of various videos and that we've seen

16     testimony from Erin Gallagher and I think Dusan Janc on additional video.

17     So we have a new trial video that has a few additions.  If you recall,

18     General Tolimir pointed out some information on one of the Zepa videos

19     that we had left out that he thought was relevant, so we've included

20     that.  It had some reference to some family members, and that is -- the

21     trial video I'm speaking of is P991.  So we do have a new updated trial

22     video that includes those various pieces that have actually already into

23     evidence so that you will get, ideally, the DVDs with that on it and a

24     transcript in English.  The audio is, of course, B/C/S, so we have not

25     transcribed it as yet.

Page 17921

 1             So -- and along with that new trial video, updated trial video,

 2     really, is a book, an updated stills book, and that is the book that goes

 3     along with each chapter of the trial video and has a few stills from each

 4     chapter to give you a feeling of who's in the video and who they are.

 5     It's really a crucial guide to watching the video, because it tells

 6     you -- it reminds you who people are, and, you know, it's as important as

 7     the playbill or -- at a football game or the opera, really.  So we have

 8     an updated version of that that we'd like to provide for you, and the

 9     original one was P1097.

10             And also there's a couple of items that were MFI'd, the statement

11     of Dr. Klonowski which I will need to speak to the Defence about.  I

12     don't know if you remember that but that was something that may have been

13     in dispute, so we'll try to sort out where we are on that.

14             There was another MFI'd only a -- something that we recovered

15     from the Bratunac Brigade called:  "The Situation in Bosnia-Herzegovina

16     Before the War," and I think you'd asked us about the authenticity of

17     that and so that's another document, it's a war history document.  I need

18     to -- that's P1258.  Does that mean it's in evidence?  It's MFI'd only.

19     That I need to talk to Mr. Gajic about to see their opinion on.

20             Oh, and we also have an updated Muslim identification book.  You

21     may recall Ms. Gallagher testifying about stills taken of Muslims in

22     Potocari and along the road, and we have an updated version of that based

23     on her testimony identifying people, and that is P1367.  So that update

24     should reflect her testimony.

25             And there may be a couple of other things that the team is

Page 17922

 1     digging up that I'll be able to sit down and discuss with Mr. Gajic and

 2     get back to you and perhaps we'll be able to set some time if we need to

 3     to have any argument if -- if we need to or -- or decisions.

 4             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Before you get the floor, one moment, please,

 5     Mr. Gajic.  I would like to add that recently I asked the parties if they

 6     could -- could agree on certain pages of one book which was tendered

 7     during an examination of one witness to avoid to having translate

 8     everything of this book.

 9             Mr. Gajic, it seems that you want it address that.  Otherwise, I

10     would like to ask Mr. McCloskey first.

11             MR. McCLOSKEY:  Mr. Gajic picked out some 20-some-odd pages that

12     we were fine with and so that will go off to CLSS under the agreement

13     that you suggested.

14             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  We have to decide which pages should be received

15     into evidence.

16             Mr. Gajic.

17             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] [No interpretation]

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  We don't receive interpretation at the moment.

19     Please repeat.

20             THE INTERPRETER:  Can you hear the English?

21             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Yes, now I can hear the English.

22             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I was saying the

23     Defence has pinpointed some 25 pages, I think, from the book, and it will

24     be sent, if it hasn't been sent already, but I did discuss the matter

25     with Mr. McCloskey.  I don't know whether I provided him with a copy, but

Page 17923

 1     I will do so, if not, in the course of the day.

 2             Now, as far as what Mr. McCloskey told us about the Prosecution

 3     intentions for submitting new material and having new exhibits

 4     admitted --

 5             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Bear with me for one moment.  The Chamber asked

 6     the parties to give us an update about the -- your agreement about the

 7     pages to be translated and to be received into evidence.  The Chamber

 8     decides about the admission of evidence.  So we have to be updated to be

 9     able to decide.

10             Can you give us the page numbers now?  That would be extremely

11     helpful so that we can resolve this already today.  Could you read the

12     numbers into the transcript, including the number of the document,

13     Mr. Gajic.

14             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, could we do that by

15     means of e-mail, because I don't have the page numbers with me at

16     present, but as soon as this session is over, I will be able to send that

17     in writing, because the pages are clearly marked, but I don't have the

18     numbers with me at present.

19             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  I can indicate that the Chamber will receive

20     these pages into evidence, but without having the page numbers, it's

21     quite difficult to identify later, at a later stage, which are in

22     evidence.

23             Yes, please do that after the hearing.  At least during the final

24     session of the Prosecution case we can deal with that finally.

25             Please continue.

Page 17924

 1             MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Secondly, Mr. President, I have to

 2     admit that Mr. McCloskey took me by surprise with the amount of exhibits

 3     that he would like to have tendered and the amount of work we're going to

 4     have, because the Defence can't agree in a blanket terms to everything.

 5     We'll have to look through all the material and consider it.  So I'd like

 6     to ask the Trial Chamber and Mr. McCloskey to have everything in writing.

 7     If we could do that in writing, that the Prosecution table its request in

 8     writing, and then we would respond in writing during the deadline,

 9     requisite deadline.

10             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  For the moment I only can say I state that one

11     witness was now formally withdrawn.  I don't want to mention his name

12     because it was in private session.

13             The second witness, we are expecting a motion, and there might be

14     a response and then we will decide.

15             And all the other motions, we are open to receive any motion.

16     There is nothing -- and, of course, the Defence will have the opportunity

17     to respond, and at a certain stage we will decide on that.  There's

18     nothing to do with that at the moment during the hearing of today.

19             Are there any other matters?  I don't see anybody on his feet, so

20     that we have to adjourn for the day.  We will give notice when we may

21     have the next hearing with the last witness of the Prosecution case, and

22     I would like to take the opportunity to thank everybody who is assisting

23     us and supporting us and was busy with us during the whole one and a half

24     years we are in court in this trial, even more than one and a half years.

25             Thank you, and with the best wishes for everybody, we adjourn.

Page 17925

 1                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.04 p.m.,

 2                           to be reconvened sine die