Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 7297

 1                           Monday, 8 March 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.06 a.m.

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.  This is case number

 6     IT-08-91-T, the Prosecutor versus Stanisic and Zupljanin.

 7             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you, Madam Registrar.

 8             Good morning to everyone.  May we begin in the usual manner by

 9     taking today's appearances, please.

10             MR. OLMSTED:  Good morning, Your Honours.  It's Matthew Olmsted

11     and Crispian Smith for the Prosecution.

12             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour.

13     Slobodan Cvijetic and Eugene O'Sullivan appearing for Stanisic Defence.

14             MR. PANTELIC:  Good morning, Your Honours.  For the Zupljanin

15     Defence, Igor Pantelic this morning.  Thank you.

16             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

17                           [The witness entered court]

18             JUDGE HALL:  Mr. Olmsted, I assume that there is nothing to delay

19     our -- there are no preliminary matters that we need concern ourselves

20     with?

21             MR. OLMSTED:  No, Your Honour, we're ready to proceed.

22             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

23             Could you take the solemn declaration, sir.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

25     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Page 7298

 1             JUDGE HALL:  Good morning to you, sir.  Could you begin by giving

 2     us your name for the record.

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can't hear the interpretation.

 4             JUDGE HALL:  Can you -- can you hear me now?  Is this any better?

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can hear now.

 6             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

 7             Could you begin by telling us your name, please.

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My name is Ibro Osmanovic.  I'm

 9     born on 5th of August, 1965 in Vlasenica.

10             JUDGE HALL:  And what is your profession?

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Worker.

12             JUDGE HALL:  And what is your ethnicity.

13             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Muslim.

14             JUDGE HALL:  Have you testified previously before there this

15     Tribunal or in any trial in your country of residence?

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I testified before this court four

17     times.

18             JUDGE HALL:  So you need only -- I need only remind you of the

19     procedure.  In terms of your being called as a witness by one side, in

20     this case the Prosecution would begin by asking questions of you, and

21     then there would be an opportunity for counsel for each of the accused to

22     ask you questions if they wish.  After re-examination by the Prosecution,

23     the Chamber may have questions of you.

24             You are being called under our expedited procedure having regard

25     to the fact that you would have testified previously, which means that

Page 7299

 1     the Prosecution would not use as much time with as you may have

 2     experienced the first time you testified.

 3             And with that in mind, I would invite counsel for the Prosecution

 4     to begin.

 5             MR. OLMSTED:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 6                           WITNESS:  IBRO OSMANOVIC

 7                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 8                           Examination by Mr. Olmsted:

 9        Q.   Good morning, Mr. Osmanovic.

10        A.   Good morning.

11        Q.   I believe you have mentioned that you have testified several

12     times before this Tribunal.  Did you testify in the Krajisnik case?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   And prior to testifying here today, did you have the opportunity

15     to listen to your testimony in that case?

16        A.   Yes, I did.

17        Q.   Was that audiorecording that you listened to an accurate

18     reflection of your testimony in that case?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   If I were to ask you the same questions today that you were asked

21     during your Krajisnik testimony, would your answers be the same?

22        A.   If the answers -- the answers would be the same, yes.

23        Q.   Now, did you also have an opportunity to review your written

24     statements from 10 October, 1994; 11 October, 1995; and 7 June, 2001,

25     prior to testifying here today?

Page 7300

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   And upon review of the 10 October 1994 statement, did you have

 3     some minor typographical corrections to that statement?

 4        A.   Yes, just typos.

 5             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honours I'm going ask my Case Manager to bring

 6     up on sanction 65 ter 10287.06.  This is a statement that the witness

 7     created yesterday during proofing with regard to typographical errors in

 8     his October 1994 statement.  Given the short time-frame, we weren't able

 9     to load it into e-court.  It still needs to be translated, and we will

10     get that done as soon as possible after this witness testifies.

11        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, if you look at the screen, is this the witness

12     statement that contains your corrections to your 10 October 1994

13     statement?

14             Perhaps you could turn to page 2?

15        A.   Yes, that's my statement.

16        Q.   Now, with these corrections, are you satisfied that the

17     information contained in your written statements is accurate and correct?

18        A.   Yes.

19             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honours, at this time we would move to admit

20     the 92 ter package of this witness, including this last statement with

21     the corrections that we just reviewed.

22                           [Trial Chamber confers]

23             JUDGE HALL:  Admitted and marked, Mr. Olmsted.

24             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit P1041.

25             MR. OLMSTED:  Thank you.

Page 7301

 1        Q.   Now, Mr. Osmanovic, we've just addressed some preliminary

 2     matters.  Now I get so ask you some clarifying questions with regard to

 3     your prior testimony and your prior statements.

 4             And I would like to begin, first with -- in your Krajisnik

 5     testimony, around page 5225.  You mentioned that after the Serbs took

 6     over the town of Vlasenica, the Muslims were required to turn in their

 7     fire-arms.  Could you tell us how this instruction, this order was

 8     conveyed to the Muslim population in Vlasenica?

 9        A.   The Muslim population in Vlasenica heard this message from a

10     Volkswagen Golf vehicle which had a megaphone on the roof and circulated

11     around town informing the Muslim population of Vlasenica municipality

12     that they should turn over all legally and illegally owned weapons.

13        Q.   To whom did that Golf vehicle belong?

14        A.   The police station of Vlasenica, otherwise called the public

15     security station.

16        Q.   And where were the Muslims supposed to turn in their weapons?

17        A.   The neighbourhood where I lived turned over their weapons at the

18     perimeter of the hospital.  People who lived close to the police station

19     turned over their weapons at the police station.

20        Q.   Now at these collection points, were there any police officers

21     present?

22        A.   Yes.

23             MR. OLMSTED:  Could we have 65 ter 2281 on the screen, please.

24             And the witness will mark something on this photograph with a

25     pen.

Page 7302

 1        Q.   Sir, if you could look at the photograph that's in front of you.

 2     Could you tell us, what is this building?

 3        A.   This is the building of the public security station in Vlasenica.

 4        Q.   Is this how the SJB building looked back in 1992?

 5        A.   This was in 1992.  After the war, another floor was built on top,

 6     and it was painted blue.  This is how the building looked in 1992.

 7        Q.   Are you familiar with the interior layout of the SJB building

 8     back in 1992?

 9        A.   Yes.

10        Q.   And how did you become familiar with the interior of this

11     building prior to the conflict?

12        A.   There was also the Fire Brigade Society in this building.  They

13     occupied two offices and one conference rooming on one floor.  The police

14     was on the other floor.

15             On the ground floor, there were the offices of the Fire Brigade

16     Society, and there were fire vehicles parked outside and their equipment.

17        Q.   And, just for the record, were you a member of that fire brigade?

18        A.   Yes, for many years.

19        Q.   Can you tell us where was the office of the chief of police

20     located in this building?

21        A.   The office of the chief of police was on the second floor, this

22     window here.

23        Q.   And just for the record, the witness marked it with a red pen.  I

24     think he put a bit of a scribble on it.

25             MR. OLMSTED:  And we'd like to tender this into evidence.

Page 7303

 1             JUDGE HALL:  Admitted and marked.

 2             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit P1042.

 3             MR. OLMSTED:

 4        Q.   Now, I'd like to move to 22 May 1992, the second time you were

 5     arrested by the police.

 6             In your testimony, and in your written statement, you state that

 7     the police arrested you, brought you to the SJB building, and placed you

 8     in a jail cell along with up to 20 other Muslim men.

 9             MR. OLMSTED:  And if we could please take a look at 65 ter 3565.

10        Q.

11             Mr. Osmanovic, if you can take a look at this -- this is actually

12     three photographs.  This is the first one.  If you can look at this first

13     one.  Can you tell us what that is a picture of?

14        A.   We see the hallway, identical to the hallway in the police

15     station in Vlasenica, in this part here that I will mark with A is the

16     stairwell.  On the right-hand side is a metal door, it used to be the

17     toilet, later turned into a makeshift store-room.  On the right-hand side

18     is the door to one of the offices of the fire brigade.  And opposite is

19     the door to the section for the IDs and passports.  And on the right-hand

20     side we see two toilets.

21        Q.   Very good.  And you mentioned that to the right, right next to

22     the stairwell is a door that was a toilet, became a storage room.

23             MR. OLMSTED:  If we could go to the next picture.

24        Q.   I think that's a better view of that door; is that correct?

25        A.   This is from another angle.  We see the stairwell leading down to

Page 7304

 1     the ground floor and up to the second floor, and we see that door.

 2        Q.   Let's take a look at --

 3             JUDGE HALL:  Sorry, by "that door" I take it you're talking about

 4     the toilet that became a store-room.

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

 6             MR. OLMSTED:  And let's enter that room.  Could we go to the next

 7     picture.

 8        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, do you recognise this room?

 9        A.   This a cell of a police station in Vlasenica.

10        Q.   When --

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the witness please repeat what he said at

12     the end.

13             MR. OLMSTED:

14        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, could you just repeat what you said at the end of

15     your testimony there.  The interpreter didn't catch it.

16        A.   This is a cell at the police station.  That's the former storage

17     room.

18        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, when you were arrested, is this the cell you were

19     brought to?

20        A.   Yes.  Except that this wooden bunk did not exist then.  And here,

21     in the upper corner, was a window that you can't see, and it was -- there

22     was brick on the edge.

23        Q.   And how long were you detained in this cell?

24        A.   There were two cells like this.  One on the ground floor; one

25     upstairs.  It was a time when you didn't know when you were awake and you

Page 7305

 1     were sleeping.  I spent two days in a cell like this before being moved

 2     upstairs.

 3        Q.   You mentioned in your statement that there was up to 20 grown

 4     Muslim men in this cell.  How did you all fit in there?

 5        A.   Yes.  The person who got first to the corner and managed to squat

 6     did so.  Most of the other people had to stand, and we were packed in

 7     like sardines.

 8        Q.   Now you mentioned -- you mentioned that after a couple of days

 9     you were moved to another cell.  Where was that cell located?

10        A.   It's just above this one, directly upstairs.

11        Q.   Was it similar in size?

12        A.   Slightly larger.

13        Q.   Now, this second cell that you were --

14             JUDGE HALL:  Sorry, Mr. Olmsted.

15             Mr. Osmanovic, I'm trying to get some idea in terms of

16     perspective.  From the photograph, we see the width of the cell.  Could

17     you tell me -- if you look at the foot of the bunk that's now there,

18     how -- about how near would that have been to the -- to the front end of

19     the cell?

20             Do you understand my question?

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You mean to the wall?

22             JUDGE HALL:  No, to the door.

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] From the door to the bunk there

24     could be 80, 90 centimetres.

25             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

Page 7306

 1             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Just a follow-up on the Presiding Judge's

 2     question, what approximately were the dimensions of the room?  Do you

 3     remember?

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] 2.5 to 3 metres by 1.80 metres,

 5     because it used to be a toilet, later turned into a store-room.

 6             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Thank you.

 7             MR. OLMSTED:

 8        Q.   Now, this second jail cell that you were detained in, on the

 9     second floor, can you tell us how many days you were in that cell for?

10        A.   I was in that cell until the 2nd of June, when I was move to the

11     municipal prison in Vlasenica.

12        Q.   And since you're familiar with the interior of the building,

13     how -- where was this cell in relation to the SJB chief's office?

14        A.   Right opposite his office.

15        Q.   You mentioned in your prior written statement that

16     Dzemal Ambeskovic was murdered near one of the SJB cells.  Can you tell

17     us whether it was a cell on the first floor or on the second floor?

18        A.   On the second floor.

19             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honours, we'd like to tender this into

20     evidence.

21             JUDGE HALL:  Admitted and marked.

22             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1043, Your Honour.

23             MR. OLMSTED:

24        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, in your prior statements, you name a number of

25     persons who were responsible for the mistreating and interrogating

Page 7307

 1     yourself and other Muslims at the SJB building.  And I would like to show

 2     you another document.

 3             MR. OLMSTED:  It's 65 ter 2378.

 4        Q.   To see whether you could identify any of the people who were

 5     mistreating you at the SJB building.

 6             MR. OLMSTED:  And if we could zoom out and go to page 2 of the

 7     English and page 4 of the B/C/S.

 8        Q.   Now this document is entitled:  "List of Members the Special

 9     Platoon at Vlasenica SJB."

10             Mr. Osmanovic, were you aware back in 1992 that a special unit

11     existed in Vlasenica?

12             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Mr. Olmsted, in all fairness it says "List of

13     Members of the Reserve Police Forces."  Are you claiming that "special

14     unit" and "reserve police" is one and the same.

15             MR. OLMSTED:  Thank you, Your Honour, for catching that.

16             Page 2 of the English, please.  This is page 1.  There we go.

17             Let me ask the question again.

18        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, were you aware back in 1992 that a special platoon

19     or special unit existed in Vlasenica?

20        A.   In 1992, in April, I noticed uniformed men in camouflage

21     uniforms.  I thought that they were members of the special military

22     police.  However, according to this list that we have here they were

23     members of the special platoon at the police station in Vlasenica, and

24     these are people whom I have named by their first and last names.

25        Q.   Who was the leader, the commander, of this special platoon?

Page 7308

 1        A.   When I stayed at Susica camp in Vlasenica, where I stayed, people

 2     there would say the prince is coming, the king is coming, the commander

 3     is coming; Kraljevic meaning prince.  And we have the surname here, it is

 4     Kraljevic.

 5        Q.   And just for the record, is that the person listed as number one

 6     on this list?

 7        A.   Yes, it is.

 8        Q.   Now I think you've mentioned but just to confirm, are you

 9     familiar generally with the persons listed on this document?

10        A.   I'm familiar with a quite large number of persons on this list.

11     I know their first names, their last names, I know the names of their

12     parents.

13        Q.   And what are their ethnicities.

14        A.   They were all of Serb ethnicity.

15        Q.   I want you to focus on the time you were at the SJB building, you

16     and the other Muslims were being detained at the SJB building.  And could

17     you tell us from this list whether any persons on this list were involved

18     in either interrogating or mistreating the detainees at that building?

19        A.   Yes they were.  Namely, it was the person under number serial 3,

20     the one under serial number 4, serial number 6, serial number 12, 13, 8,

21     15, 20, number 23, number 24, 25, the person under the serial -- under

22     serial number 30.

23        Q.   The person listed under number 23, Dragan Nikolic, who was he

24     back in 1992 -- April 1992?

25        A.   Until April 1993 he worked in the aluminum factory.  In April I

Page 7309

 1     saw him once in front of the bauxite mine in Vlasenica.  He was armed.

 2     There was the Crisis Staff there.  Afterwards, he was the commander of

 3     the Susica camp.

 4             MR. OLMSTED:  Let's take a look at another list, 65 ter 2815.

 5     And while we're doing that, can we mark that last document for

 6     identification.

 7             JUDGE HALL:  So marked.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1044, Your Honour.

 9             MR. OLMSTED:

10        Q.   Now, Mr. Osmanovic, with regard to this document which is

11     entitled:  "Reserve Workers who Have Worked at the Police Station in

12     September 1992," I'm going ask you the same series of questions.

13             And, first of all, are you familiar generally with the persons

14     who are listed on this document?

15        A.   Yes.  I know some of the people on this list.

16        Q.   Can you tell us what their ethnicities were?

17        A.   They were all Serbs.

18        Q.   And, again, focussing on your time at SJB building when you were

19     detained there with other Muslims, can you identify any persons on this

20     list who were involved in the interrogation and mistreatment of the

21     Muslims detained there?

22        A.   The person under number 16, Slavko Garic.  Actually, the name

23     here is Slavko but they just mentioned the surname, Garic.  I didn't know

24     his first name at the time and he was interrogating people.

25             Then also Sekulic, the person under number 28.

Page 7310

 1        Q.   Can I ask you about number 2, Rade Milic.  What role did he have

 2     in your arrest.

 3        A.   Rade Milic used to be a policeman at the public security on the

 4     reserve force in Vlasenica.  He lived in my neighbourhood, and he was

 5     present when I was taken away from my home.

 6        Q.   That was on the 22nd of May?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8             MR. OLMSTED:  If we could turn to the second page of the B/C/S.

 9     I don't think there is a second page for the ... for the English.

10        Q.   And I'll ask you the same question.  Can you identify any persons

11     listed here as among the perpetrators of mistreatment of the Muslims

12     detained at SJB.

13        A.   The person under serial number 56, Zoran Pantic, interrogated

14     people at the police station.

15             Also, the person under 72, Predrag, Basta.  Some people in town

16     knew him as Dragan Basta nicknamed Sar.  75, also, Tosa Ostojic [phoen],

17     a retired inspector of the public security station in Vlasenica who

18     interrogated people, and Basta was among the persons took people in,

19     brought them into the station.

20        Q.   You mentioned that Predrag Basta's nickname was Car.  Could you

21     spell that for the record.

22        A.   It is C-a-r.

23             THE INTERPRETER:  In English, interpreter's comment:  It is

24     T-s-a-r, Tsar.

25             MR. OLMSTED:

Page 7311

 1        Q.   Now number 50, Ljubisa Sekulic.  Did you see him at all when you

 2     were at the SJB building?

 3        A.   Yes, he was the brother German of the first Sekulic who is on the

 4     first page.  I saw him at the prison, and he was with Cvijetin Ramljak.

 5        Q.   And just to clarify, did you also see him at the SJB building,

 6     mistreating Muslim detainees?

 7        A.   He maltreated other people.  He did not maltreat me.

 8        Q.   And if we could just turn to the third page.

 9             And I'll ask you the same question, whether you can identify any

10     of the perpetrators at the SJB building, amongst these names?

11        A.   77, Duric Elvis.  The person under 79, Sinisa Dosic.  Under 81,

12     Goran Pajic.  88, Stupar.  The person under 100, serial number 100,

13     Ljubisa Vukotic.

14        Q.   Under number 92, Goran Tesic.  What was he doing back in this

15     time-period, 1992?

16        A.   Goran Tesic got -- was a guard at the Susica camp.

17             MR. OLMSTED:  Can we mark this one for identification.

18             JUDGE HALL:  So marked.

19             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Mr. Olmsted, before you leave this document, I'd

20     like to put a question to Mr. Osmanovic.

21             Namely, the function of these people on the list that we are

22     seeing on the screen in front of us, it says that it's a list of reserve

23     workers and I'm just curious to know what that means.  It's quite a

24     comprehensive list, counting more than 100 people and my question is were

25     these people members of the police force or were they were recruited sort

Page 7312

 1     of at that moment to assist in running the SJB.

 2             What was their function?

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They were not active policemen.

 4     They were not employed on a regular basis at the police station.  They

 5     just appeared at the police station in April 1992.

 6             JUDGE HARHOFF:  And as -- and, as we can see, they were also

 7     paid, apparently.

 8             What were they paid for; do you know?

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] For some kind of work they did,

10     most probably.

11             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Thank you.

12             MR. OLMSTED:  Let's cal up one more list.  It's 65 ter 2815.  Was

13     the last one marked?  I didn't hear.

14             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1045.

15                           [Trial Chamber confers]

16             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Mr. Olmsted, my question is why do you want to

17     have this list MFI'd?

18             MR. OLMSTED:  Well, obviously he's not a member of the police so

19     I was not thinking he would be the appropriate witness to admit it.

20     There will be another witness testifying this week who will authenticate

21     and admit them all.

22             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1045, marked for

23     identification.

24             MR. OLMSTED:  Now, if we could take look at 65 ter 2815.  And if

25     you could just flip to page 4.

Page 7313

 1             Oh, correction 2814; I apologise.  And we can flip ahead to page

 2     4 of the English and page 4 of the B/C/S.

 3        Q.   Now we just looked at a reserve police payroll.  Now we're

 4     looking at the active police payroll, May 1992.

 5             Mr. Osmanovic, are you familiar with the persons listed on this

 6     document?

 7        A.   Yes, with most -- most of them.  But I did not see some of them

 8     in the police station as part of active force.

 9        Q.   What are their ethnicities?

10        A.   They're all Serbs.

11        Q.   I'm going ask you the same question I asked with regard to the

12     other documents.

13             When you were detained at the SJB building, did you see any of

14     the persons listed here?

15        A.   I did.  I saw a large number of the people on this list.  I did

16     not see the three women on the list.  But as for the rest, I saw most of

17     them.  But I have to note that they behaved in a very professional way,

18     as policemen.

19        Q.   If we look at number 20, Sinisa Miljanic.  You mention him in

20     your statement when you were detained at SJB building.  What was he doing

21     at the building?

22        A.   Miljanic was not on the active force in the -- of the police

23     station.  Until April 1992, he belonged to the reserve police force.

24        Q.   Could you tell us -- I believe somewhere in your statement when

25     you're talking about what happened at the SJB building, you mentioned

Page 7314

 1     him.  If you could just tell the Trial Chamber what you saw him doing

 2     when you were being detained at the SJB building.

 3        A.   Well, I was detained at the police station in Vlasenica.

 4     Miljanic took us out to put the body of Dzemal Vlaskovic [as interpreted]

 5     who was killed there near the police station at Vlasenica.

 6             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter is not sure she heard the

 7     witness correctly.  If he could repeat the answer, please.

 8             MR. OLMSTED:  Mr. Osmanovic, I don't think the interpreter heard

 9     the name of the person whose body you took out of the SJB.  Could you

10     repeat the name.

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Dzemal Ambeskovic is the name.

12             MR. OLMSTED:

13        Q.   Now, in your October 1994 statement, you state that a person by

14     the name of Stevan Mumovic was responsible for killing Ambeskovic.  What

15     kind of uniform was Mumovic wearing?

16        A.    Stevan Mumovic, who was from Racica [phoen] village in the

17     Han Pijesak municipality, was a convict of the Foca prison for a very

18     long time.  He was serving time because he had killed a Muslim.  He came

19     to Vlasenica in 1992.  He had a camouflage uniform on on the sleeve of

20     which was written "war police" on the patch.

21        Q.   Do you know what the difference between war police and reserve

22     police is?

23        A.   War police is something that I saw for the very first time

24     written on the patch op his sleeve.

25        Q.   If we could look at number 24, Goran Deuric.  Did he play any

Page 7315

 1     role in your arrest?

 2        A.   He too was a reserve policeman up to 1992.

 3        Q.   And what role did he play in your arrest?

 4        A.   He was just there to escort me to the police station.  He was

 5     present when I was taken in.

 6        Q.   And number 25, Branislav Sokanovic.  Who was he back in

 7     May/June 1992?

 8        A.   Sokanovic, and then number 25, was the prison governor, the

 9     prison warden, but he was not from Vlasenica.

10             This person's conduct was markedly professional while he was in

11     the building of the municipal prison.

12             MR. OLMSTED:  May we have that marked for identification.

13             JUDGE HALL:  Yes, so marked.

14             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1046, marked for

15     identification.

16             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Mr. Olmsted, I'm just slightly confused about

17     what these people were doing, because Mr. Osmanovic made reference to the

18     municipal prison.  And -- and on the list it appears that these were

19     active policemen working at the Vlasenica SJB.  So my question is:  Were

20     these running the prison at the SJB station itself or were they manning

21     or guarding the municipal prison.  And where was that located, if not in

22     the SJB itself.

23             MR. OLMSTED:  Thank you, Your Honour.  In fact we're going move

24     to municipal prison right now.  Just to clarify, as I understand his

25     testimony we just talked about this Sokanovic who was the prison warden.

Page 7316

 1     Up to this point we have been talking about the SJB building itself and

 2     the jail cells located at that facility.

 3        Q.   Let's move on to the prison, the municipal prison, which

 4     according to your testimony you were taken to after you were detained at

 5     the SJB building.  Could you tell us approximately how far the municipal

 6     prison is from the SJB building.

 7        A.   The municipal prison is between 200 and 250 metres from the SJB.

 8     The prison was right behind the court building.

 9        Q.   And who took you to the prison?

10        A.   Miljanic did.

11        Q.   And approximately how many days were you detained at the

12     municipal prison?

13        A.   I was there from the 2nd of June until the 17th or the 18th of

14     June, when I was transferred to the Susica camp.

15        Q.   And while you were being detained at the municipal prison, who is

16     guarding you and other prisoners?

17        A.   The guards guarding us were men of Serb ethnicity.  Some of them

18     are on this list of reserve policemen of the SJB.

19        Q.   Could you give us their names.

20        A.   The Sekulic brothers, Dusan Duric, aka Pikusa, Cvijetin Ramljak,

21     Slobodan Tesic.  There were also some other people whom I did not know.

22        Q.   Did you see Predrag Basta at all while you were detained at the

23     municipal prison?

24        A.   Basta would come occasionally to the municipal prison.  Excuse

25     me, on the 2nd of June, people were rounded up in Vlasenica and the

Page 7317

 1     surrounding villages, and they were taken away.  Regrettably, some of

 2     them never returned.

 3        Q.   And just to clarify:  Were they taken away from?  Were they taken

 4     away from the prison or somewhere else?

 5        A.   Yes, they were taken away from the municipal prison in Vlasenica.

 6        Q.   Now, in your prior statements, you talk about how you were -- you

 7     and other detainees were mistreated by some of the guards at the

 8     municipal prison.  Can you tell us which guards were beating or otherwise

 9     abusing the prisoners?

10        A.   The prisoners at the municipal prison in Vlasenica were

11     mistreated and maltreated.  Actually, the maltreatment included

12     deprivation of food and water and beating.

13             Among those who particularly mistreated the prisoners were

14     Ramljak and Djuric who worked in one shift.  Then Sekulic and Tesic, they

15     worked in another shift.  Now, as regards Tesic he was not that

16     perverted; whereas, Sekulic actually viciously treated some people.  They

17     would bring from the nearby cafe, which was called Excalibur and which

18     was of 50 metres from the building, anyone who wanted to beat the

19     inmates.  They even brought children.  Different people came in.  The

20     door would just swing open from civilians to uniformed people, known and

21     unknown people.  Anyone could come in.  The guards provided no protection

22     at all, no refuge at all to the inmates.

23        Q.   You mentioned in your prior statement that while you were

24     detained at the municipal prison, at one point you were taken out of the

25     prison to collect bodies, 22 bodies, and bury them from the village of

Page 7318

 1     Drum.

 2             MR. OLMSTED:  If we can take a look at 65 ter 3569.  And if he

 3     can use the electronic pen for this.

 4        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, taking a look at this photograph in front of you,

 5     can you see the Vlasenica SJB building?

 6        A.   Yes.  The building of the public security station is here.

 7        Q.   Could you please --

 8        A.   This is the building.

 9        Q.   I'm sorry, we are going to have to keep it zoomed out so that you

10     can mark on it, but could you put a number 1 on the SJB?

11        A.   The building of the public security is here.

12        Q.   The usher is going to help you mark it on the screen.

13             Could you please put a number ...

14                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

15             MR. OLMSTED:

16        Q.   Okay.  I have been informed that you have marked it number 1.

17             Could you circle the village of Drum, just put a big circle

18     around this village of Drum on this photograph.

19        A.   [Marks]

20        Q.   Could you tell us how far the village of Drum is from the SJB

21     building?

22        A.   1 and a half kilometres to 2, maximum.

23        Q.   Now, you're familiar with the interior of the SJB building.  If I

24     was standing in the SJB chief's office on the second floor looking out

25     the window, would I be able to see the village of Drum?

Page 7319

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   Now, when you arrived in Drum to collect the bodies, where were

 3     the bodies located?

 4        A.   The bodies were at Nezir's Cafe.  Here.

 5        Q.   Could you mark that with a number 2.

 6        A.   [Marks]

 7        Q.   And where did you bury them?

 8        A.   We buried them at the entrance to the Muslim cemetery called

 9     Rakita.

10        Q.   Could you put a number 3 where that's located.

11        A.   [Marks]

12        Q.   Now did you know any of the victims, any of the people who --

13     whose bodies you collected that day?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   What were their ethnicities?

16        A.   They were all Muslim.  Because in the Drum village there were

17     only two Serb houses, the house belonging to a haulier at the very

18     entrance to the village, and another house belonging to somebody called

19     Borovcanin.

20        Q.   Were any members of the special police unit present while you

21     were collecting and burying these bodies?

22        A.   Yes.  Zoran Obrenovic was there.  Then the worker of the public

23     utility enterprise, Pecenica.  There was Stupar.  We had take off

24     jewellery from the dead bodies, rings, any valuables, and then we had to

25     line them into a big grave that had been dug already.

Page 7320

 1             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honours, I'd like to tender this into

 2     evidence, this picture.

 3             JUDGE HALL:  Admitted and marked.

 4             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit P1047, Your Honour.

 5             MR. OLMSTED:

 6        Q.   Let's move on to your detention at Susica camp --

 7             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Mr. Olmsted.

 8             Mr. Witness, the victims, were they all men or were they men and

 9     women?

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They were all men.

11             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Thank you.

12             MR. OLMSTED:

13        Q.   Let's move on to your detention at Susica camp in June 1992.

14             Do you recall who transported you from the municipal prison to

15     the Susica camp?

16        A.   From the municipal prison in Vlasenica to the Susica camp, I and

17     others with me were transferred by Predrag Basta, nicknamed Car, in his

18     own privately owned truck, Zastava 650 was the make.

19        Q.   And in your prior statements, you describe a number of incidents

20     of beatings and killings of the Muslim detainees at Susica camp.

21             Could you tell us whether any members of the special police unit

22     or reserve police were involved in those beatings and killings?

23        A.   On this list, on the second list, there are a few names.

24     Dragan Nikolic, nicknamed Jenki, he was the fear of the entire Susica

25     camp.  The dread and terror of the camp.  Other members from this list,

Page 7321

 1     and yet others who are not on the list also came to the camp.  Goran

 2     Viskovic, nicknamed Vjetar, Wind, is on this list.  He came wearing a

 3     helmet like a construction worker, and he himself had inscribed UN on the

 4     helmet.

 5             We only prayed to God for dawn to come, because every night the

 6     same thing happened.

 7        Q.   Just to clarify:  The list you're looking at, is that the special

 8     police platoon list?

 9        A.   Yes.

10        Q.   Did you see Zoran Obrenovic or Sladan Pajic at Susica camp

11     abusing detainees?

12        A.   I saw both Sladan and Zoran, Duric brothers Aco and Elvis.  I

13     also saw Mr. Vukotic who had brought people from Suljkovic [phoen]

14     neighbourhood.  Ljubisa Vukotic.

15        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, were other members of your family detained at

16     Susica camp?

17        A.   Out of my family, two of us brothers, my mother, and two sisters

18     were at the camp.  At the police station, my elder brother remained after

19     we left for the camp.  Later, he was under house arrest with an

20     obligation to report to the police station every 24 hours.

21        Q.   How long was your brother detained at Susica camp?

22        A.   My brother never left Susica, unfortunately.  He was found in a

23     mass grave in Kljestani, decapitated.

24        Q.   How long did your sisters remain at Susica camp?

25        A.   My elder sister, Fatima was sent to Cerska, and then my mother,

Page 7322

 1     Fata followed her to Cerska; whereas, my sister Ferida stayed on.  She

 2     was found burnt in the Pelemis camp, burned to death.

 3        Q.   Now, I want to turn to -- and I'm sorry for having to bring that

 4     up.  But if we can move on -- are you okay, Mr. Osmanovic?

 5        A.   I'm all right.

 6        Q.   All right.  Let's move on to Batkovic camp.  Do you recall seeing

 7     any members of the Vlasenica special police unit at Batkovic camp?

 8        A.   Yes, I do.

 9        Q.   Under what circumstances did you see members of the special unit

10     at Batkovic camp?

11        A.   I was transferred to Batkovic, towards the end of June, and

12     sometime in August, or, rather, in September a group of people was

13     brought in.  They had been intercepted somewhere in an attempt, perhaps,

14     to get to the free territory.  Some of them had been in Milici prison,

15     others in Vlasenica prison, and that was the last group that came from

16     Vlasenica.

17             At that time, there was Sekulic, Pajic, Obrenovic.  My

18     sister-in-law and Obrenovic were family, in-laws because my brother was

19     married to his cousin.  I asked if my parents were still alive, and he

20     said, unfortunately, no.

21        Q.   Do you recall while you were at Batkovic seeing other members of

22     the civilian police at that camp?

23        A.   The civilian police from Bijeljina municipality came to take

24     inmates out for labour duty.  They would work in Semberija and Sava

25     companies, in the wire factory, at the sugar refinery.  That's where

Page 7323

 1     regular police used to take people.  As for labour, digging trenches and

 2     making defence lines and felling trees for the first front line, more --

 3     that's when troops, army troops would come to take inmates out.

 4        Q.   When you referred to army troops, do you mean the VRS army?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6             MR. OLMSTED:  Can we look at 65 ter 1329.

 7             And if we could go to page 148 in the B/C/S.  148.

 8     Unfortunately, the English is not a complete translation so maybe just

 9     stay on the first page for the English but go to 148 for the B/C/S.

10        Q.   And, Mr. Osmanovic, you reviewed this document - it's quite a

11     long document - and you reviewed it during proofing yesterday.  But prior

12     to reviewing it yesterday, had you ever seen this document before?

13        A.   No.

14             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Mr. Olmsted, what is this?  And who drew up this

15     list?

16             MR. OLMSTED:  We -- after the witness testifies, I can probably

17     provide a little more details as to where the list comes from.  He is

18     going to authenticate it to a certain degree.

19             I'm sorry, there is just going to be a page correction.  The page

20     is 138; I apologise.  If we could scroll down a little bit.

21        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, do you see your name anywhere on this list?

22        A.   Yes, number 21.

23        Q.   Is this information accurate with regard to your detention at

24     Batkovic camp in 1992?

25        A.   Yes, it is.

Page 7324

 1        Q.   Now, when you reviewed this rather long list, were you able to

 2     recognise any other persons listed?

 3        A.   Yes.  I recognised people from Vlasenica by name and surname.  I

 4     recognised some people who were with me in the same labour groups.  They

 5     were from Zvornik, Kalesija, and Sekovici.

 6        Q.   Were all these people at Batkovic camp with you?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   Approximately, roughly how many names could you recognise on this

 9     list?

10        A.   As for Vlasenica municipality or the town of Vlasenica, I know

11     everyone down to the last man.

12             As for the others, I know only those who worked with me in the

13     same labour groups from other municipalities.

14             MR. OLMSTED:  May we mark this document for identification.

15             JUDGE HALL:  Marked for identification.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1048, marked for

17     identification.

18             MR. OLMSTED:

19        Q.   I just have one more document to show you, Mr. Osmanovic.

20             MR. OLMSTED:  If we could 65 ter 3563 on the screen.

21        Q.   During your proofing yesterday, Mr. Osmanovic, did you have the

22     opportunity to review this document which is the crime register from

23     Vlasenica SJB?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   And as you reviewed this register, were you able to identify

Page 7325

 1     among the persons reported in this register Bosniaks who were at

 2     detention facilities with you in 1992?

 3        A.   Yes.  A certain number of persons, yes.

 4             MR. OLMSTED:  Now if we could look at 65 ter 10288.  Yes, and

 5     I'll indicate that this document is another document that we created

 6     during his proofing yesterday, so it wasn't on the original list.  It's

 7     just been loaded into e-court, and, like I said, it was signed by the

 8     witness yesterday.

 9        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, did you sign -- is this statement signed by you?

10        A.   Yes.

11             MR. OLMSTED:  If we could go to the second page.

12        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, we see here listed seven names.  Are these people

13     that could you identify that were at detention facilities, along with

14     you, in 1992?

15        A.   Yes.

16             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honours, we'd like to tender this into

17     evidence.  Obviously, it's not on our 65 ter list but because it was

18     created yesterday during proofing.

19             JUDGE HALL:  Is there any objection?

20             Admitted and marked.

21             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1049, Your Honour.

22             MR. OLMSTED:  And since we've taken a look at 65 ter 3563, the

23     crime register, could we have that marked for identification.

24             JUDGE HALL:  Yes, so marked.

25             THE REGISTRAR:  Prosecution Exhibit 1050, marked for

Page 7326

 1     identification.

 2             MR. OLMSTED:  And, Your Honours, I have no further questions.

 3             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

 4             The -- we are so near the break that I would -- probably wait

 5     until we return for cross-examination to begin.

 6             So we resume in 20 minutes.

 7                           [The witness stands down]

 8                           --- Recess taken at 10.20 a.m.

 9                           --- On resuming at 10.45 a.m.

10                           [The witness takes the stand]

11             JUDGE HALL:  Yes, Mr. Cvijetic.

12             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

13                           Cross-examination by Mr. Cvijetic:

14        Q.   [Interpretation] Mr. Osmanovic, good morning.

15        A.   Good morning.

16        Q.   My name is Slobodan Cvijetic.  I am co-counsel on the Defence

17     team of the accused Mico Stanisic.  I have just a few questions for you.

18             I've read all your statements, and I believe you did not touch

19     upon one of the subjects that you had covered earlier today.

20             I would like turn your attention to the takeover of power in

21     Vlasenica municipality, and you will help me with the dates.

22             So you maintain that on this one day the JNA turned up and took

23     control of all the most important state institutions; correct?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   You'll have to wait for me to finish my question and make a

Page 7327

 1     second's pause before you answer, because the interpreters are not going

 2     to be able to follow otherwise.

 3             Could you tell us in a few sentences what it looked like?

 4        A.   In April 1992, there was a takeover of power in Vlasenica

 5     municipality.  They took control of all the most important institutions,

 6     such as the court, the town hall, the bank, various companies.  Armed

 7     people of Serb ethnicity from Vlasenica turned out in the street, wearing

 8     rifles and standard army weapons.  Six armoured vehicles, including

 9     tanks, were also parked next to the football pitch.

10        Q.   Did you notice a paramilitary unit that also appeared in the

11     street at the time?

12        A.   Paramilitary units, that is army units, they were all armed.

13     Some of them wore traditional olive-green uniforms, others camouflage

14     uniforms, and they were all armed.  There were paramilitary units wearing

15     different insignia.  Some of them had eagles on their caps.  Some of them

16     had the tricolour on the cap.  Some of them had nothing.

17        Q.   A paramilitary unit from Sekovici is mentioned.  Do you know

18     anything about them?

19        A.   That paramilitary unit from Sekovici, sir, they were all armed.

20     They were all uniformed.  They were acting as one team, men wearing

21     different insignia were moving together.  I don't see any difference

22     between various paramilitary units.

23             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's correction:  I don't see any

24     paramilitary unit there.

25             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation]

Page 7328

 1        Q.   Are you aware of the fact that the police station building was

 2     also taken control of, and all the policemen, both Serbs and Muslims,

 3     were disarmed during this takeover of power?

 4        A.   No.  I'm not aware of that fact.

 5        Q.   In your earlier statements, you did not identify the person who

 6     drove that Volkswagen Golf.  You just said that this vehicle had a

 7     megaphone inviting Muslims to turn over weapons.

 8        A.   Who drove that vehicle from which this proclamation was read, I

 9     don't know.  I didn't see it.

10        Q.   In response to a question from the Prosecutor, and perhaps

11     Judge Harhoff asked about it as well, you said that you had noticed also

12     a reserve police unit, and you named some of the people you knew.  Was

13     that the first time you saw them in uniform?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   Do you have any idea who could have mobilised them and armed

16     them?

17        A.   The Serbian Municipality of Vlasenica, the police station of

18     Vlasenica, and the army.

19        Q.   Wait a minute.  A police station cannot conduct mobilisation.

20     There is a specific authority in the municipality in charge of

21     mobilisation; isn't that right?

22        A.   There is the National Secretariat for Defence.  There was a

23     National Secretariat for Defence which conducted mobilisation of the

24     reserve forces for the benefit of the then-Territorial Defence; whereas,

25     the police force mobilised their own reserve, as far as I know.

Page 7329

 1        Q.   Well, that's your opinion.  We can't agree on that.

 2             I think you said something about the role of the Crisis Staff in

 3     those times.  Do you know when it was established who was the president

 4     and what were the competences of that Crisis Staff?  Just slowly, please.

 5        A.   The Crisis Staff of Vlasenica Municipality, now, I saw two orders

 6     of this Crisis Staff.  One was hanging outside a company, a business, in

 7     writing, that was the furniture factory.  And the other order was verbal,

 8     demanding that everyone go back to work, to the Serbian Municipality of

 9     Vlasenica, those who had fled but were still there, and in my view, the

10     Crisis Staff was the agency that governed Vlasenica.

11                           [Defence counsel confer]

12        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, I'm just going through your statement where you

13     say that in -- during those days the Crisis Staff was the main authority

14     in Vlasenica municipality.  I think you dealt, in your statement, also

15     with the appointment of the chief of police, Mr. Bjelanovic, and you

16     related that to the decisions of the Crisis Staff.

17             Am I right?

18        A.   No, you're not right.

19        Q.   What is right then?

20        A.   Mr. Bjelanovic was the chief of the police station in Vlasenica

21     when the first multi-party elections took place, whereas, the commander

22     of the police station was Mr. Turkovic.  Because one post belonged to the

23     SDA and the other post to the SDS.

24        Q.   You also mentioned this person Kraljevic, nicknamed Kralj, king.

25     You mentioned him in relation to the work and operation of the Susica

Page 7330

 1     camp; correct?  You said that -- in fact, you claim that he had the rank

 2     of the lieutenant in the Yugoslav People's Army, right?

 3        A.   Mr. Kraljevic, if I should call him mister at all, I mentioned in

 4     my story about Susica camp where this Nikolic, nicknamed Jenki, said

 5     that we had to clean the perimeter because Kraljevic, the commander, the

 6     prince, was coming.  And when Major Vlasic [as interpreted] asked, he

 7     said that he was responsible only to Kraljevic because Kraljevic was the

 8     commander -- his commander.  Mico Kraljevic still lives in Vlasenica and

 9     work there is.

10        Q.   Do you stand by your statement where you say --

11             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] I see the Prosecutor on his foot.

12             MR. OLMSTED:  Yes, just a clarification.  I think -- the

13     transcript says "Major Vlasic."  I think that was not the name that he

14     gave.  I -- obviously I don't understand B/C/S, but I think, just knowing

15     the witness's statement, that he meant someone else.  Perhaps you could

16     seek a clarification on the person who said that he was only responsible

17     to Kraljevic.

18             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] I don't mind.

19        Q.   The witness can repeat his answer.

20        A.   At the Susica camp when Kraljevic was coming driving the car of

21     Mustafa Jasarevic, Dragan Nikolic used to say, The king was coming; the

22     commander was coming.  The camp must be cleaned.  When Veljko Basic came

23     with a list - and he was a major wearing a uniform of the JNA - Nikolic

24     said only Kraljevic is my commander.  I'm responsible only to him, no one

25     else.

Page 7331

 1        Q.   Thank you.  You identified Dragan Nikolic as a worker of the

 2     Alpro factory, as an alcoholic, and it is written here also that you saw

 3     him and considered him to be a member of the Serbian special military

 4     police?

 5        A.   As for Dragan Nikolic, nicknamed Jenki he was known to the

 6     entire town of Vlasenica as a man who was very given to drinking.  This

 7     is a person who worked together with my brother in the aluminum pressings

 8     factory in Vlasenica.  And this is a person whom I saw twice:  Once

 9     outside the Crisis Staff in Vlasenica, which was in the administration

10     building of the bauxite mine in Vlasenica, and the second time, when I

11     was transferred to the Susica camp where he was lord and master and laid

12     down the law.

13             Just to clarify, sir, when you refer to special military police I

14     never before had occasion to see the police wearing camouflage uniforms.

15     I only knew that the army wore such uniforms, that's why I thought that

16     he was a member of the army special police.  But I, yesterday, saw on the

17     list that he was a member of the special platoon of the public security

18     station.

19        Q.   But he was wearing an army camouflage uniform?

20        A.   Yes, he was wearing an army camouflage uniform.  He was armed

21     with a 7.62-millimetre pistol.  He has a knife, a bayonet which was used

22     on an M48 rifle.  He a defensive and offensive hand grenade, and he also

23     had an automatic rifle.

24        Q.   The Prosecution has shown you this list of, so to speak, regular

25     policemen are -- in the police station, and you said that they

Page 7332

 1     professionally discharged their duties.  I noticed on that list that the

 2     only one who did not receive his salary was precisely this Sokanovic

 3     person who you say you later noticed was in charge of the prison.

 4        A.   In Vlasenica I did not know any policeman by the name of

 5     Sokanovic.  As a matter of fact, there are some names that are unfamiliar

 6     to me on this list.  This man came to the prison, municipal prison in

 7     Vlasenica.  He said that he was the warden.  His conduct was extremely

 8     professional and fair towards everybody, irrespective of sex, of age, of

 9     anything.  He was quite professional.

10             When I went -- was transferred to the Susica camp, I saw a number

11     of people there and one of them was Daniel Sokanovic who hailed from

12     Zenica.  How he came to be in that camp, I don't know, but he said that

13     he had worked in the central prison in Sarajevo before.  But this was a

14     person who was extremely fair and correct in his treatment of other

15     persons.

16        Q.   Thank you.  You also referred to a Stevan Mumovic who you claim

17     killed this Beskovic [as interpreted]; is that right?

18        A.   Yes.  Stevan Mumovic killed Ferid Binic [phoen].  Stevan Mumovic

19     was a long time convict of the Foca prison.  He hailed from the village

20     of Racica, the Han Pijesak municipality.

21        Q.   Perhaps I'm wrong because you have those lists.  I didn't find

22     him on any list.

23        A.   I didn't identify him on any list either.

24             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] The witness's answer is indicated

25     as a question.  That should be corrected.  I'm not quite sure what line

Page 7333

 1     that is.  It is line 14, line 14.  On this page.  Well, the question and

 2     answer -- anyway.

 3        Q.   He is not on any of these lists?

 4        A.   No.

 5        Q.   Please tell me, in March 1992, did the Muslim population organise

 6     itself in any paramilitary way in that area, municipality of Vlasenica?

 7        A.   I know that in Vlasenica municipality and in the town proper

 8     Serbs and Muslims socialised.  They stood guard together in the streets.

 9     They had armed and unarmed patrols.  I heard that there was some sort of

10     a check-point in the Drum village area.  I'm not sure whether they were

11     armed.  That is in March.

12             As regards April, the former local commune of Cerska put up an

13     armed resistance to the Serb forces, and they managed to hold out in

14     their homes until February 1993.

15             As for some paramilitary organisations, I was not aware of the

16     existence of any.

17        Q.   Thank you.  I'm not going to dwell on Batkovic because it is

18     Vlasenica that we're interested in.  But as regards Batkovic, you told us

19     that it was precisely three Muslim guards who mistreated the inmates the

20     most.

21        A.   Exactly.  That is what I said.

22        Q.   You were exchanged for civilians.  Can you relate that for us in

23     brief?

24        A.   On the 21st of July, 1993, in the morning, we were loaded onto

25     buses at Batkovic, and we were taken to the village of Jablanica, that is

Page 7334

 1     the Lopare municipality.  From where we proceeded on foot to descend into

 2     the village of Sibosnica where at a football pitch, we parted.  Some went

 3     in one direction, others in another direction.  There were

 4     representatives of the municipalities from the Vlasenica area.  I

 5     recognised Bajo, he used to play football.  He was there on the Serbs.

 6             When I passed through the area under the control of the Army of

 7     Bosnia and Herzegovina, civilian Serbs were passing in the other

 8     direction and they were not in uniform.

 9        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, I -- this concludes my questioning.  Thank you.

10        A.   Thank you.

11             JUDGE HALL:  Mr. Pantelic.

12             MR. PANTELIC:  No question for this witness, Your Honour.

13             JUDGE HALL:  Re-examination?

14             MR. OLMSTED:  Just very briefly, Your Honours.

15                           Re-examination by Mr. Olmsted:

16        Q.   Mr. Osmanovic, you mentioned someone by the name of Veljko Basic

17     at Susica camp.  Could you tell us, what was his position prior to the

18     conflict?

19        A.   Veljko Basic was a retired policeman of the public security in

20     Vlasenica.  He arrived at Susica camp with some sort of a list, reading

21     out -- for the names of those people who are to be exchanged to be read

22     out.  I asked Veljko since I know him, I knew him, whether Hajrudin, my

23     brother, and I could go together.  And he said to me, no.  You will go

24     and he will remain here as security that you will not escape.

25     Regrettably, my brother was found three years ago decapitated.  His head

Page 7335

 1     was found several months ago on the 24th of April in fact, and that was

 2     the kind of guarantee that I got from Veljko.

 3             By the way, the head of my brother was found 25 kilometres

 4     distant, as the crow flies, from his body.  The body was found at

 5     Kljestani and the head at the Debelo Brdo -- in the Debelo Brdo area.

 6        Q.   You answered some questions about armed resistance in Vlasenica

 7     municipality.  Mr. Osmanovic, could you tell us whether there was any

 8     armed resistance in Vlasenica town itself?

 9        A.   Your Honours, in Vlasenica, there was no armed resistance

10     whatsoever.

11        Q.   In the days surrounding the takeover of Vlasenica town by the

12     Serb forces, did you have a chance to observe what the civilian police

13     were doing in the municipality when these paramilitaries and other groups

14     were taking over the municipality?

15        A.   At the moment of the takeover of the municipality of Vlasenica, I

16     didn't see any of that.  When I went to work, I saw very -- a very small

17     number of active policemen just in passing.  I saw, however, larger

18     numbers of armed men of Serb ethnicity who were on duty at the

19     cross-roads, in the factories, and who moved about town.  They all had a

20     patch, or, rather, a ribbon on their right sleeves.

21        Q.   Are you aware of any efforts by the police in Vlasenica to arrest

22     these paramilitary groups that were taking over the town?

23        A.   No, I'm not aware of any such efforts.

24             MR. OLMSTED:  No further questions, Your Honour.

25                           [Trial Chamber confers]

Page 7336

 1                           Questioned by the Court:

 2             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Thank you, Mr. Osmanovic.

 3             Just one little question for clarification.  The persons who were

 4     taking part in the mistreatment at the Batkovic camp, you mentioned that

 5     three of them were of Muslim ethnicity.  And my question is:  What was

 6     their function?  Were they employed with the police or were they -- what

 7     were they doing there, and how come they would beat up their fellow

 8     ethnicity brothers, if I may say so?

 9        A.   Your Honours, upon my arrival at Susica camp, I found Dzemal

10     Zahirovic, called Spajzer, who had been taken to the camp, Batkovic camp,

11     before me, two days before me.  When I arrived he was already commanding

12     a group of inmates who were actually erecting a fence around the

13     compound.

14             In the meantime, a group also arrived from Brezevo Polje, Brcko

15     municipality, among who was a name -- a man by the name of

16     Fikret Smajlovic, nicknamed Piklic in camouflage uniform, and the very

17     moment he arrived he started ordering people about as to who would do

18     what, who would go with who.  But who had appointed him to that post I

19     really don't know.

20             After a certain time, another group of inmates was brought

21     including man in camouflage uniform named Bekric.  He joined the first

22     two men, Bekric kicked people.  Smajlovic used a cable which he called an

23     American stick.  And he also used the metal buckle of his belt whereas

24     Zahirovic -- Zahirovic who was a Roma person, he used primitive

25     instruments so to speak.  He used stones, poles, whatever he could lay

Page 7337

 1     his hands on.  These three men, this group that I am mentioning, beat

 2     most viciously the group which was called the special group, include --

 3     which included Muslims and Croats.  One of them was Nedim Mostarcevic who

 4     was from Tuzla, who was brought there -- who was brought wounded.  He was

 5     called beret 1.  Fadil Alihodzic, who was called beret 2, who was

 6     captured at the line.  He is from Vlasenica and I know him well.  There

 7     were two Croats and an Albanian who managed to escape the Batkovic camp

 8     and reach Brezevo Polje, but they were caught and returned.  They were

 9     accorded what was referred to as special treatment by these three.  They

10     were not given any food or any water, and they were beaten every day,

11     literally every day.

12             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Thank you for this response.

13             I'm still curious to know the reason to know why, if you can tell

14     us, some of the inmates became engaged in beating other inmates.  Were

15     they ordered to do by the camp, the leadership of the camp, the camp

16     commander or -- how did this come about?

17        A.   Now who ordered it, I don't know.  But I know that these people

18     had a privileged position, all three of them.  Smajlovic even had his own

19     private car, Yugo, parked outside the hangar.  He came and went as he

20     pleased outside the compound which other people were not able to do.  He

21     held himself as a person who had the right to command everyone within the

22     compound.

23             Zahirovic within the confines of the camp did not go outside to

24     work anywhere, but he decided within the compound who should go in which

25     group and do what; whereas, Bekric led a group that went out to loot

Page 7338

 1     Muslim villages in the vicinity of Bijeljina, Akmacici, Janjari, and

 2     another village.  They would take out home appliances, TV sets, whatever

 3     they found.  So they held a privileged position, but who ordered them to

 4     treat people that way, their own compatriots, I don't know.

 5             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Thank you.  I may have misunderstood, but am I

 6     correct in assuming that these three gentlemen were not themselves

 7     inmates in the camp?

 8        A.   They were prisoners.  They slept in the same place as us but they

 9     acted as bosses in the camp.

10             JUDGE HARHOFF:  And yet they could leave the camp as they

11     pleased?

12        A.   Smajlovic could leave the camp whenever he wanted.

13             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Thank you, sir.

14        A.   Thank you.

15                           [Trial Chamber confers]

16             JUDGE HALL:  Yes, Mr. Cvijetic.

17             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours in this context just

18     one more question.

19                           Further cross-examination by Mr. Cvijetic

20        Q.   Were there such privileged Muslims at the Susica camp as well?

21        A.   Yes, there was a number of privileged people appointed by

22     Dragan Nikolic in the Susica camp as well, but they did not beat others.

23     They were like on duty.  They designated people who should go out to

24     work, but they did not beat people unlike the other ones.

25             JUDGE HALL:  Well, we thank you, sir, for coming to assist the

Page 7339

 1     Tribunal, and we wish you a safe journey back to your home.  We note the

 2     personal indignities [realtime transcript read in error "insignificant

 3     knits"] and discomfort, to put it mildly, that you would have suffered,

 4     and we empathise with you.  So we thank you for your assistance to us.

 5             Thank you, sir.  You are now released as a witness.

 6             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

 7                           [The witness withdrew]

 8             JUDGE HALL:  Mr. Olmsted, according to the schedule that we were

 9     to received [sic], your next witness is scheduled -- is not scheduled to

10     begin until tomorrow.  Having regard to the early hour at which this

11     witness has concluded in his testimony, are you in a position to begin

12     the testimony of that witness today?

13             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honours, unfortunately, I don't think we are.

14     We did anticipate that the cross-examination would go two hours as they

15     had -- the Defence had indicated.  And the witness just arrived last

16     night, and needed proofing today, reviewing his statements and such.  And

17     if we could resume tomorrow, that would be ideal for us.  I think we'll

18     still be on schedule for this week though.

19             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

20             JUDGE DELVOIE:  I have one question to avoid eventually problems

21     with the numbering of the exhibited documents.

22             The package when it was tendered was given one number, P1041.

23             Madam Registrar, do all the nine documents then get dot 1, 2, 3,

24     et cetera, numbers?

25             THE REGISTRAR:  If I may, Your Honour, the package is numbered

Page 7340

 1     1041.1.

 2             JUDGE DELVOIE:  41.

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  -- .1 -- 01.

 4             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Okay.

 5             THE REGISTRAR: -- through 1041.08, Your Honour.

 6             JUDGE DELVOIE:  And the last one is then?

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  The last one is --

 8             JUDGE DELVOIE:  2793?

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  The last one is document 2280.

10             JUDGE DELVOIE:  2280.

11             THE REGISTRAR:  Yes.

12             JUDGE DELVOIE:  The --

13             THE REGISTRAR:  There was an additional statement that was

14     submitted as Rule 65 ter 102 --

15             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Yes --

16             THE REGISTRAR:  -- 87 --

17             JUDGE DELVOIE:  That's included --

18             THE REGISTRAR.  -- 06.

19             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Yes.

20             THE REGISTRAR:  And the other additional statement --

21             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Yes.

22             THE REGISTRAR:  -- 10288 was a separate document, which has

23     received Prosecution --

24             JUDGE DELVOIE:  49, yes.

25             THE REGISTRAR:  -- exhibit number 1049, Your Honour.

Page 7341

 1             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Okay.  But then 2280 is the annotated one that

 2     has -- that is in the package?

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  2280 is an aerial photograph --

 4             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Yes --

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  -- and --

 6             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Annotated.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  There is one annotated photograph which was 65

 8     ter exhibit 2281.

 9             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Oh, yes.  Is that --

10             THE REGISTRAR:  Which is exhibit number 1042.

11             JUDGE DELVOIE:  42.  Okay.  And then one last -- one thing more.

12             P1045 should be MFI'd which is not in the transcript.

13             THE REGISTRAR:  That's correct, Your Honour.

14             JUDGE DELVOIE:  Just to be sure.

15             THE REGISTRAR:  Yes.

16             JUDGE HALL:  Before we rise, I note for the record that page 41,

17     line 17, I'm recorded as noting "the personal insignificant knits and

18     discomfort."  What the record should show is that I noted the personal

19     indignities and discomfort suffered by the witness.  Thank you.

20             Is anybody in a position to volunteer information, from either

21     side, as to what progress you have made, you plural, have made in the

22     representations that would have to be formally put to the President as to

23     the site visit?

24             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honours, I don't have any information in

25     regard to that.  I know Ms. Korner has had some discussion with the

Page 7342

 1     Defence about that.  I think they're coming up with a couple different

 2     plans.  I don't know where that is in the process, though.

 3             JUDGE HARHOFF:  May I just add in this connection that it takes a

 4     couple of months, at least, to prepare a site visit.  So if we are

 5     scheduling a site visit before the summer recess, then time is beginning

 6     to -- to -- to get short.  So, as I said, if we are to carry on with

 7     these plans, then we must hear from the parties very soon.

 8             MR. PANTELIC:  If I may, then on the same topic, Your Honour, we

 9     were discussed this issue with -- yeah.

10             We will discuss this -- discuss this issue with our colleagues

11     from the OTP, and we -- we -- we actually -- I would say made a proposal

12     regarding the schedules and -- and places to visit, et cetera, and I

13     believe that during this day, you will have detailed information about

14     that.  Our friends from Prosecution are taking care about the -- because

15     they were a part of -- of -- of same -- same -- I would say site visit

16     before, so they will classify everything, and I believe that during day,

17     at latest tomorrow, you will have detailed information about that.

18             MR. OLMSTED:  Your Honour, I can't promised detailed information

19     as of tomorrow, but I will speak with Ms. Korner today, and we will

20     report back to you where we are tomorrow.

21             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

22             So we resume in this courtroom at 9.00 tomorrow morning.

23                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 11.28 a.m.,

24                           to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 9th day of March,

25                           2010, at 9.00 a.m.