Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 20742

 1                           Tuesday, 17 May 2011

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.25 a.m.

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.  This is case number

 6     IT-08-91-T, The Prosecutor versus Mico Stanisic and Stojan Zupljanin.

 7             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you, Madam Registrar.  Good morning to

 8     everyone.  May we take the appearances, first of all, please.

 9             MS. KORNER:  Good morning, Your Honours.  With a very odd

10     LiveNote, it's Joanna Korner, Alexis Demirdjian and Crispian Smith for

11     the Prosecution.

12             MR. ZECEVIC:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Slobodan Zecevic,

13     Slobodan Cvijetic, Eugene O'Sullivan and Ms. Tatjana Savic appearing for

14     the Stanisic Defence this morning.  Thank you.

15             MR. KRGOVIC:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Dragan Krgovic and

16     Miroslav Cuskic appearing for Zupljanin Defence.

17             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, there are a couple of matters before

18     the witness comes into court.  The first is this:  As you know, he was

19     ordered to bring up the originals of the diaries and his military

20     booklet.  I haven't had an opportunity to see whether the original of his

21     military booklet is there, but the diaries are certainly there and it

22     doesn't appear that he has brought anything extra.  However, there's a

23     whole bunch, if I can put it that way, of other documents and at the

24     moment I'm not clear, because we haven't had a chance to look at them,

25     exactly what they are.  Additionally, he has brought some CDs which

Page 20743

 1     appear to contain videos which are new.

 2             Now, Your Honours, I think we can get started.  It may be the

 3     simplest is to ask him what he has brought with him before we go any

 4     further.  Whether that's done by myself or Your Honours, I don't know.  I

 5     think we need to see what it all amounts to.

 6             The second matter is this:  Mr. Krgovic last, whenever it was,

 7     Thursday, I think, told Your Honours that the only extra questions he

 8     wanted to ask were limited to entries from the diary, and Your Honours

 9     gave him leave.  This morning, we've received a total of some further

10     nine documents that Mr. Krgovic apparently wishes to use in

11     cross-examination.  Three are the diaries, we have no objection to that.

12     The others are documents that he could have used in his original

13     cross-examination.  And, Your Honours, we therefore say, he could have

14     dealt with it then, the leave that he has been given to re-open his

15     cross-examination is limited to the diaries.  It's a matter for

16     Your Honours having heard from Mr. Krgovic whether you grant him leave to

17     use the other documents.

18             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I did not want my

19     cross-examination to be limited to the diaries.  I wanted it to be

20     limited to the topics that I have touched upon before, and that was the

21     original objection by Ms. Korner.  We were talking about topics from my

22     previous cross-examination.  The new documents that I mention here are

23     related to the topics, and those documents also explain the entries made

24     by this witness and this will be the purpose of my cross-examination.

25             That was my original statement.  My new cross-examination will

Page 20744

 1     not go any further, anywhere beyond the topics that I have already

 2     examined about.  Many of the topics are mentioned in the entries in the

 3     diaries and those new documents relate to those topics and those entries.

 4             JUDGE HALL:  So, Ms. Korner, it appears that the problem that you

 5     thought exist doesn't really exist.

 6             MS. KORNER:  [Microphone not activated]

 7             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

 8             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, it is a problem.  He could have dealt

 9     with the topics which are dealt with in those documents outside the

10     diaries at the time.  Your Honours, there has to be a limit on what you

11     can do.

12                           [Trial Chamber confers]

13             JUDGE HALL:  The Chamber is not persuaded by the objections

14     raised by the -- Ms. Korner and the leave granted to Mr. Krgovic would

15     be -- is going to be applied to allow him to deal with the -- these

16     documents that have just become the subject of this dispute.

17             You wanted to say something, Mr. Zecevic.

18             MR. ZECEVIC:  Yes, Your Honours, about the first matter, if I can

19     be of any assistance to the Trial Chamber.  First of all, it was my

20     understanding that Ms. Korner insisted that the witness brings the

21     originals of the documents that he provided to the OTP with him, so I

22     assume those are the documents because I haven't seen them.  Now, about

23     the four videos, the four videos as far as we could have seen in the

24     couple of minutes that we have before, one video is concerning the crime

25     in Sijekovac which happened on the 27th of March, where, if you remember,

Page 20745

 1     the Croatian troops crossed to Bosnia and committed a crime in one

 2     Serbian village.  The other is some tape of the TV show where this person

 3     Anto Prkacin, who was the head of that particular unit, is talking

 4     because, I couldn't hear what he was -- but I assume again that this

 5     concerns this crime in Sijekovac.  The third is some video of a camp in

 6     Turlak in Bosanski Brod, which I wasn't aware of the existence of that

 7     camp but I assume that is the camp which the Croat forces kept in

 8     Bosanski Brod.  Therefore, I don't think it's relevant.  And the fourth

 9     one, I'm sorry, it escaped me right now, I'm not sure.  But again I don't

10     think any of these -- any of these videos are immediately relevant for

11     the subject matter of this case, but of course, Your Honours will ask the

12     witness about it.  Thank you, Your Honours.

13             JUDGE HALL:  There is a matter which the Chamber wishes to raise

14     in private session and after that is resolved, there are certain -- it

15     has been brought to the attention of the Chamber that there are certain

16     concerns that the witness has which we also need to deal with in private

17     session.  But before we move into private session, I wonder if there are

18     any other housekeeping matters that we need address?

19             In which case we move into private session.

20                           [Private session]

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Page 20746

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21                           [Open session]

22             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we are back in open session.

23             JUDGE HALL:  And while the witness is on his way in, Mr. Zecevic,

24     it would be -- is a reminder from the Chamber to be grateful from your

25     batting order until the recess, end of July.

Page 20747

 1             MR. ZECEVIC:  It would be no problem, Your Honour.

 2             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

 3             MR. ZECEVIC:  Of course, I cannot guarantee the dates, because --

 4     but the batting order, yes.

 5             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.  And of course the time needed.

 6             MR. ZECEVIC:  Of course, Your Honours.  Well, there is still one

 7     matter which is pending and that is a decision on videolink witnesses.

 8     We requested a videolink for two witnesses.

 9             JUDGE HALL:  Which ruling should be issued shortly.

10             MR. ZECEVIC:  Thank you very much.

11             JUDGE HALL:  Yes, could the usher please escort the witness back

12     in.

13                           [The witness takes the stand]

14             JUDGE HALL:  Mr. Bjelosevic, good morning to you, sir.  Welcome

15     back to the Tribunal.  Because of the lengthy interruption in your

16     testimony, I would invite you to make the solemn declaration again.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

18     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

19                           WITNESS:  ANDRIJA BJELOSEVIC [Resumed]

20                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

21             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.  You may be seated.

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23             JUDGE HALL:  And before Ms. Korner -- before your

24     cross-examination resumes, I think it's Mr. Krgovic who would go first,

25     there are certain matters in respect of which we would have to go into

Page 20748

 1     private session which we now do.

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Page 20749











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Page 20756

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 8                           [Open session]

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we are back in open session.

10             JUDGE HALL:  And there is a question, Mr. Bjelosevic, before

11     counsel continues, which because of the -- your status as a sworn

12     witness, counsel not having any contact with you, I suppose the Chamber

13     is in the best position to ask, and that is for you to let us know what

14     documents you have brought with you since the adjournment.

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I've brought with me what had been

16     required to be provided during my testimony, namely, I made photocopies

17     of specific documents.  And with the aid of your staff who came to

18     Sarajevo, I dispatched this starting with this booklet, then proceeding

19     with my diaries from the relevant period, bulletins of daily events,

20     reports of certain security issues relating to that period that the

21     service acquired, and today I also brought four CDs that also pertained

22     to the year 1992.  All of these are short entries but I think that,

23     nonetheless, each one of them speaks quite clearly about specific things

24     that I addressed in my previous testimony and also probably some things

25     that we are going to speak during the continuation of my testimony.  And

Page 20757

 1     I also brought a book that was mentioned here written by a group of

 2     authors, a group of journalists from 1992, this is the original in German

 3     and the translation into Serbian.  And I would like to offer this as

 4     well.  I think this will be very helpful for everyone to take a look at.

 5     I did not make any photocopies.  You have two versions in two languages,

 6     so it's up to you which one you decide to choose.

 7             And that would be it.

 8             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, can I just ask Your Honours perhaps to

 9     ask at this stage --

10             JUDGE HALL:  Ms. Korner, I was going to invite you by way of

11     clarification to, yourself, ask the witness if the general question that

12     the Chamber phrased wasn't adequate.

13             MS. KORNER:  If I may then, although this is all a bit odd

14     because Mr. Krgovic is going to re-cross examine.

15                           Cross-examination by Ms. Korner:  [Continued]

16        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, are any of the paper documents that you have

17     brought up today ones which were not photocopied earlier and given to

18     VWS, leaving aside the diaries, please, and the German book?  Did you

19     understand the question?

20        A.   I'm not quite sure when you spoke about my journals that I

21     understood you properly.  They have been photocopied but I brought the

22     originals for comparison and also the book, and as I said, it's the book

23     written in German and translated into Serbian.  And there is also a

24     number of documents that we mentioned awhile ago, so all of that I

25     brought as photocopies and I also brought the originals for the sake of

Page 20758

 1     comparison.

 2        Q.   Yes.  Sorry, thank you for that.  But all I am concerned about is

 3     forgetting the journals, forgetting the book, the wads of paper that we

 4     can see you brought, were they all photocopied and given to VWS or are

 5     there new documents that you did not give to VWS?

 6        A.   The four CDs have not been copied.  I handed them over.  That

 7     also applies to the book and also to a number of documents that I have

 8     here.

 9        Q.   Right.  Well, that's what I thought.  Are you able yourself to

10     identify which documents that you brought up today you have not

11     previously photocopied and given to VWS?  Are they in a separate bundle?

12        A.   Here they are.

13        Q.   Thank you.  That's it.  Thank you very much.

14             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, I don't think this will delay matters

15     today, but obviously we are going to ask that those documents are handed

16     over to VWS again for photocopies to be made today hopefully in the break

17     for us on the Defence, then we can see what they are.

18             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

19             Yes, Mr. Krgovic.

20                           Further Cross-examination by Mr. Krgovic:

21        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Bjelosevic.  I finished my

22     cross-examination.  However, due to the emergence of new documents which

23     I'll have to go back again to discuss your journals and the events that

24     you described in your notes.  Only one thing I'd like to clarify first.

25     If I understood you correctly, all the documents that you provided to the

Page 20759

 1     VWS you copied, but there is a portion that you still haven't provided to

 2     the VWS; is that correct?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   And these documents relate to 1992?

 5        A.   That's correct.

 6        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, one question relating to your journal, we are in

 7     receipt of photocopies of the three journals.  Are those notes of yours

 8     contemporaneous notes, do they describe the events that happened in the

 9     relevant period?

10        A.   Yes, that covers a period 1991 and 1992, and it covers the places

11     where the meetings took place.

12        Q.   And you subsequently did not enter any changes?  This is

13     authentic document and your authentic notes as you made them at the time?

14        A.   Yes, and I have the originals here and I believe that the

15     forensics is so advanced nowadays that if anyone wants to make any

16     comparison and make confirmation of the authenticity, it can easily be

17     done.

18        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, let us go through some of your entries.

19             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] So can I please have in e-court

20     Exhibit 2D101169.  Your Honours, this is a portion of -- that's tab 5 in

21     Zupljanin Defence.  It's tab 017 and it's a Prosecution Exhibit 2103.

22        Q.   If it is easier for you, Mr. Bjelosevic, you can see that this is

23     an entry that you made on the 11th of July, 1992, so maybe you can find

24     your bearings easier in that way.

25        A.   Yes.

Page 20760

 1        Q.   I'm interested in this first part of your entry in which you

 2     speak about, or, rather, you noted down the debate.  I see on the

 3     left-hand side it says "Zupljanin and Banja Luka."  Does that mean that

 4     you recorded what Stojan Zupljanin was saying?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   Mr. Zupljanin spoke on behalf of the Banja Luka CSB, and then I

 7     can see what other participants said, but I'm particularly interested in

 8     this portion where you say under bullet number 2 that Mr. Zupljanin says,

 9     "Engage the police for conduct of combat operations"?

10        A.   Yes.

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the counsel please turn off the mike

12     while the witness is speaking.

13             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

14        Q.   At the time, the engagement of the police in combat operation

15     presented a great problem, because the army quite often would take over

16     the whole police force of a police station and take them to the front

17     line leaving the police station practically devoid of the necessary

18     number of police officers necessary to carry out regular police work?

19        A.   Yes, but let me elaborate a bit on this.  On several occasions, I

20     had some live communication with Mr. Lisica at the time about this

21     subject.  I don't want to leave the impression that I am complaining

22     about what Commander Lisica was doing because defence had always been

23     priority number one in our areas.  And I fully understand that once he

24     wrote to me after I complained about the lack of police officers for

25     maintaining public law and order, he responded by saying if this goes on

Page 20761

 1     and if the front line becomes weak and we have enemy forces capturing

 2     Doboj, you will have no one to keep the law and order over.  And as a

 3     commander, he was completely right in thinking so.  He had the right to

 4     engage all the forces in the area of his responsibility because defence

 5     was the priority number one.  However, that produced a negative

 6     ramifications on the public law and order, the safety of property of

 7     people -- and people.  And all chiefs of centres highlighted this as a

 8     problem in this meeting as one of the critical problems affecting the

 9     functioning of the surface during this chaotic war period.

10        Q.   Can you briefly look at Exhibit P160 --

11             MR. ZECEVIC:  I have one intervention, Your Honours.  I note that

12     the translation of this page of the diary is inadequate.  Perhaps the

13     witness can read for the record or we should resend this for revision of

14     the translation because it says, "Question of jurisdiction of military

15     authorities in MUP," which is a wrong translation.

16             JUDGE HALL:  Perhaps we need do both, Mr. Zecevic.

17             Mr. Krgovic, could you ask the witness to read from the original.

18     Can we get the translation on the record and then have the exhibit

19     resubmitted?

20             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, you will recall this is all being done

21     at top speed with the assistance of Your Honours.  I am afraid that is

22     something that's going to happen.  And at the moment, it will have to go

23     on the back burner because they are still trying to translate the other

24     entries.  So it can't go back and be immediately corrected if it's wrong.

25             JUDGE HALL:  Well, that's the second phase, but for the time

Page 20762

 1     being if the witness's oral recitation of the contents could be

 2     interpreted, at least that's a start.

 3             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'll do this but

 4     first I want to finish this subject and then we go back to the journal.

 5     I asked the question about the first entry, but then after that, we'll

 6     proceed.  So can he now be shown P160, tab 66 of Stanisic's Defence, page

 7     5.

 8        Q.   I think that, Mr. Bjelosevic, you don't have this binder with

 9     you.  Therefore, would you be could kind to take it.

10             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] That's ERN number 0324-1855, tab 66

11     of the Defence of Stanisic.  Page 8 in e-court in the B/C/S version.

12             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please, for the counsel.

13             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

14        Q.   Can you please look at the fourth paragraph from the top?

15        A.   Number 8?

16        Q.   No, it's your page 5 but in e-court it's page 8.  You can see the

17     page number in the top corner.

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   This portion has been partially translated, so I'm going to read

20     it out to you carefully which reads that:

21             "Because of the casualties in Mrkonjic Grad, 20 active duty and

22     reserve police members were killed in one operation alone.  Define the

23     role of the police and its direct engagement in combat activities and,

24     related to this, the reinforcements.  The army is asking for the

25     engagement of the full force, want them to be re-subordinated and pushed

Page 20763

 1     to the most difficult lines but this should be prevented."

 2             Mr. Bjelosevic, this is basically the problem that was discussed

 3     in this meeting of the 11th of July?

 4        A.   Yes, I took notes, very briefly, that would serve as a reminder

 5     for myself, but here in this contribution of Mr. Zupljanin was recorded

 6     in this minutes of the meeting and as I said, all chiefs of the centres

 7     pin-pointed this problem about the engagement of the police.

 8        Q.   As far as what Mr. Zupljanin said is concerned, could you please

 9     read out this last bullet point, the question of authority.  So could you

10     please go back to your diary.  Could you please go back to your diary.

11     So that is, again, 2D101169.  Could you please read out aloud this last

12     bullet point that says, "The question of authority, the military

13     authorities and the MUP."  That is where Mr. Zupljanin asked for a

14     clarification.

15        A.   He wanted to have a delineation of authority.  So it is the

16     question of authority of the military authorities and the MUP.

17        Q.   As far as I could understand, this was a problem that you were

18     facing as well and that is that there wasn't a clear distinction between

19     what who was in charge of.  So what was requested was to state exactly

20     what the authority of the MUP was and what the authority of the military

21     was; isn't that right?

22        A.   Yes, that's right.

23             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I think that it would

24     be right to take the break now.  Perhaps we could adjourn at this point

25     and I'm going to move on to something else afterwards.

Page 20764

 1             JUDGE HALL:  Very well.  So we would resume in 20 minutes.

 2                           [The witness stands down]

 3                           --- Recess taken at 10.23 a.m.

 4                           --- On resuming at 10.55 a.m.

 5             JUDGE HALL:  I expect that counsel have got the same report we

 6     have, that the technical problems have been somewhat corrected, but we

 7     are still not perfect yet.

 8                           [The witness takes the stand]

 9             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

10        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, let us proceed.  Could you please look at the

11     next entry in your diary.  That is 2D101178, tab 6 of the Zupljanin

12     Defence.  For you that is the entry of the 27th of August, 1992.  It's

13     the second page in English.

14             Mr. Bjelosevic, from this page onwards over a few pages you

15     record some information that has to do with these persons who were in

16     Teslic.  And you also say who sent them there and how that happened;

17     right?

18        A.   That's right.

19        Q.   Is it necessary for us to move into private session now?

20        A.   If we are going to be discussing this, then, yes.

21             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, may we please move

22     into private session.

23             JUDGE HALL:  Yes.

24             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, I thought the reasoning was that there

25     should be an explanation.  I think I know what this is, but I think

Page 20765

 1     Mr. Krgovic should ask what he is recording there and we'll see that it

 2     doesn't require private session.

 3             JUDGE HALL:  But I'm a bit nervous about exploring reasons in

 4     open session, Ms. Korner.

 5             MS. KORNER:  All right.

 6                           [Private session]

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14                           [Open session]

15             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we are in open session.

16             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, can we take a look at another entry, 2D101187.

18     It's tab number 7 of Zupljanin Defence and that's the 9th of September,

19     1992.

20             Mr. Bjelosevic, this is a meeting held in Banja Luka on the

21     9th of September, 1992.  Is that the meeting that we mentioned the last

22     time that I examined you, the meeting that was attending by

23     Mr. Zupljanin?

24        A.   Yes, that's the one.

25        Q.   In the first entry, we see a mention of a dispatch seeking

Page 20771

 1     release or change of jurisdiction to the high court in Doboj.  And then

 2     under number 2, they mention the amount of foreign currency found in the

 3     safe of the SJB, and then there's the issue of the official

 4     identification card, the accommodation of the indicted persons, the

 5     release of people from prison.  So those are the topics discussed at this

 6     meeting.  We are now going to take a look at another document, but I

 7     think that most of the persons mentioned were at liberty at the time.

 8     This was some sort of post factum analysis of what had been done.

 9        A.   Yes.

10             MS. KORNER:  As the interpreter translator couldn't read the word

11     "seeking of release of," could he tell us what that word is, please?

12             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] That's the penultimate dash,

13     "release of persons from the prison in Banja Luka."

14             MS. KORNER:  No, "9th of September, 1, dispatch seeking release

15     of ...," blank.

16             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, could you please read carefully the whole

18     paragraph under number 1.  Could you please read it aloud?

19        A.   "Dispatch seeking release or handing over into the jurisdiction

20     of the high court in Doboj."

21             And I put a question mark here because a dispatch had been sent

22     by the court in Doboj to the court in Banja Luka seeking that in

23     accordance with the jurisdiction, people who were deprived of the liberty

24     in Teslic should be transferred to the prison in Doboj, and I also want

25     that topic to be discussed.  We should have examined who signed this

Page 20772

 1     order.  There was another dispatch sent on behalf of the

 2     Security Services Centre in Doboj, my name was typed but it was signed by

 3     Milan Savic.  So those are the issues that we discussed.

 4             And now that we are talking about this, if you take a look at the

 5     third dash from the bottom, accommodation of those persons and their

 6     food.  I had the principle objection, regardless of the fact that they

 7     were suspects, I thought that they should have been issued with an order

 8     about their detention the moment they were detained.  That's what I

 9     wanted explained, the kind of treatment that they received.  And that's

10     what we discussed.  There is one thing that I did not write in.  I wanted

11     the investigation to encompass also the death of two persons, one of them

12     came with the third group from Doboj, and another of them was from

13     Teslic.  If I remember his name, it was Tjecanin [phoen].  So as far as I

14     knew at the time, the investigation did not pertain to that and that's

15     why I insisted that the investigation should pertain to it as well.

16             MR. ZECEVIC:  Your Honours, again, there is an intervention

17     concerning the translation.  Your Honours will see that the original

18     document has five dashes, the entries.  The first is Inspector Markovic,

19     then official identification card, and then the third dash which the

20     witness actually was commenting just now was not translated in the

21     English translation.  The English translation has only four dashes and

22     the original has five.

23             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, I'm grateful for Mr. Zecevic.  I

24     couldn't think what he was talking about because I couldn't see it

25     either.  Could he read that again, the dash that's omitted.

Page 20773

 1             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

 2        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, could you please read out aloud all the dashes,

 3     or maybe just the third one, just the third dash?

 4        A.   Well, I can list them all.  However the third one says,

 5     "Accommodation of arrested persons."  And then the next one is "Release

 6     of people from the prison in Banja Luka."  Should I read out the rest?

 7        Q.   No, thank you.  I'm going to ask you a question.  Mr. Bjelosevic,

 8     you mentioned two dispatches that you discussed.  One of them was signed

 9     on your behalf.  You mean the dispatch that was shown to you by

10     Mr. Zecevic during the examination-in-chief, the one that was signed on

11     your behalf?

12        A.   Yes, that's one of them.

13        Q.   I'm going to show you the second dispatch.

14             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Could we have P1314.  That's tab 8

15     in the Zupljanin binder.

16        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, you can see the document now.  The president of

17     the higher court in Doboj sent it to the president of the Banja Luka high

18     court saying that bearing in mind the territorial jurisdiction and the

19     subject matter jurisdiction, those persons should be transferred from

20     Banja Luka to the detention in Doboj and that was done.

21        A.   Yes, that's the document that I mentioned and that's it.  You

22     know, there were many manipulations and various interpretations of what

23     was going on and who requested what and who did not request other things,

24     and that's why we held that meeting in order to clarify some of those

25     issues.  The investigative judge was present, the Prosecutor,

Page 20774

 1     Mr. Zupljanin, I was present.  I don't remember other people but those

 2     that I've just mentioned, they most definitely did attend that meeting.

 3        Q.   And when they were transferred, those persons were then handed

 4     over to the jurisdiction of the court and judicial organs in Doboj; is

 5     that right?

 6        A.   I don't know their fate in relation to the judicial process, so

 7     to speak.  I don't know which organ was in charge of that.  However, they

 8     were transferred from the Banja Luka prison to the Doboj prison.  Now, I

 9     cannot claim that with any certainty, but I think that the same day or

10     the day after, some of them were sent to attend -- to be attended by

11     doctors, but anyway, they were released.  I suppose that the whole

12     proceedings continued in the Teslic court.

13             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we have 2D88.  It's tab

14     number 3 in the Zupljanin Defence binder.  2D88.

15        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, this is ruling by the Teslic lower court which

16     cancel the detention for some persons on the 21st of July, 1992.

17             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we have the second page of the

18     document.

19        Q.   In the second paragraph you can see that the public prosecutor in

20     Teslic agreed to this release; is that true?

21        A.   Yes, that is what it says here.

22        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, so you know that all those persons were

23     transferred to the Doboj prison where they spent some time?

24        A.   Yes, as far as I know.  I think they were even transferred there

25     by a prison bus belonging to the Doboj prison, but whether they were

Page 20775

 1     released on the same day or on the following day, I do not know.

 2     However, later on they were all released and now I see the decision on

 3     termination of their detention.

 4        Q.   I'm going to show you Exhibit P1313.

 5             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Mr. Krgovic, I may not have understood the point

 6     you wished to make here, but could I ask you of the relevance of this?

 7             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we have heard

 8     testimony before this Chamber -- or, part of the Prosecution case is that

 9     those persons were released with the agreement of Stojan Zupljanin.  We

10     even heard testimony that some of them were released without even being

11     detained in the Doboj prison, a witness testified to that effect in

12     closed session.  I want to show through these documents that this is

13     incorrect and that they were released in accordance with the documents

14     that I have just shown to the witness.  Therefore, Stojan Zupljanin had

15     nothing to do with these proceedings once the criminal report had been

16     filed, that's what I want to show here.

17        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic --

18             MR. KRGOVIC:  [Interpretation] Can we have P1313, page 30 in

19     English and in Serbian.  And I'm going to give you a photocopy so that

20     you can follow.

21        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, take a look at 144.

22             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone please.

23             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

24        Q.   You can see Miroslav Pijunovic, Slobodan Tekic,

25     Dobrivoje Culibrk, all the persons up and including 150.  Is that the

Page 20776

 1     group that you mentioned?

 2        A.   Did you say 144?

 3        Q.   140.  140?  No, 144.  144.

 4        A.   I see a different person under this number.  It's Todorovic and

 5     then Bozic, Mesanovic [phoen].  However on the screen, yes, that's what

 6     you are talking about.  Miroslav Pijunovic, Slobodan Tekic,

 7     Dobrivoje Culibrk, Stojan Zuric [phoen], and others, yes, and they are

 8     the persons that we mentioned earlier.

 9             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we have the following page in

10     e-court.

11        Q.   Take a look at the date, date of imprisonment.  The fourth from

12     the top, it says, "Transferred on the 17th of July from the Banja Luka

13     prison."

14        A.   Yes, that's what it says here.

15        Q.   And released on the 6th of August by the Teslic high court,

16     that's what it says here.  Take a look at the next column.

17        A.   Yes, that's what I see here.  I really don't know how long they

18     spent in prison after they had been transferred from Banja Luka to the

19     Doboj prison, but I know that later on they were released, and now I saw

20     the decision issued by the court with the agreement of the prosecutor.

21        Q.   And then when there was mention of this case at the meeting in

22     Banja Luka, a conclusion was for the judiciary to continue doing their

23     job.  The only thing that you were interested in was not to have your

24     name mentioned in that context and to have it cleared?

25        A.   Yes, because there were some rumours and stories that it was I

Page 20777

 1     who had sent those men there and that I asked for them to be set free

 2     which was not correct.  If anyone wishes to claim otherwise, I would like

 3     to challenge them to prove that.  I know that there was a letter in which

 4     my name was typed, but it was signed by Mr. Savic, and, of course, the

 5     judge and the prosecutor were the persons who took charge.  From that

 6     moment onwards, the only thing we could do was to point to certain

 7     things, but everybody knows that once a matter goes into the hands of a

 8     court it is up to the court to make decisions.

 9        Q.   But do you know that in addition to this letter signed by Savic,

10     there was also a letter from the operations group sent to the court in

11     Teslic seeking their release?

12        A.   Yes, I have heard of the document seeking the release of these

13     persons and I also heard that there were certain threats made, but I

14     personally did not witness that.

15        Q.   I'm going to ask you to look at document P1364, tab 9.  And this

16     is going to be the last document that I am going to show you.  Is this

17     the document that you spoke about?

18        A.   Obviously this is the document in which there is a request for

19     these men to be released to join armed combat, and should any criminal

20     proceedings be conducted, that that should be done at a later stage.

21     Yes, that's the letter I heard of.

22        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, my last question for you is:  Mr. Zupljanin had

23     nothing to do with the release of these persons nor with any subsequent

24     proceedings?

25        A.   As far as I know, he had nothing to do with the release, and I

Page 20778

 1     also don't believe that he could have had any influence on the subsequent

 2     proceedings because --

 3             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Bjelosevic, I have

 4     no questions for you.  Your Honours, I have concluded my

 5     cross-examination.

 6                           Cross-examination by Ms. Korner:  [Continued]

 7        Q.   You don't actually know, one way or the other, do you,

 8     Mr. Bjelosevic, whether Mr. Zupljanin had anything do with the release of

 9     these men?

10        A.   I don't know that he had anything to do with that.

11        Q.   Well, just to make it clear, you don't know whether he did have

12     anything to do with it or didn't have anything to do with it?

13        A.   I don't think that he had anything to do with it based on all the

14     information that I had about this situation.  That's my conclusion and I

15     also -- I never saw any document to support that.

16        Q.   In all the investigations that you did into this matter, which

17     I'm going to return to later on, did you ever ask Mr. Zupljanin directly

18     whether he had anything to do with the release of these people?

19        A.   We talked at this meeting held on the 9th of September and that

20     is when he said that he did not influence this matter at all and that he

21     had no means of deciding on this issue, which, by virtue of his position,

22     that was impossible.  Once people are handed over to the court and the

23     prosecution office with the criminal report, nobody can do anything

24     further with regard to that a even if one wanted to have an interview,

25     for example, if an inspector wanted to interview any such person, they

Page 20779

 1     had to seek approval from the investigating judge.

 2        Q.   All right.  I'm going to return to this because I want to deal

 3     with things in order.

 4             I want to go back, Mr. Bjelosevic, to the documents that you have

 5     and that you have provided.  First of all, the three volumes of notebook

 6     that you provided to us or to VWS, are these official notebooks that you

 7     had to keep as a member of the MUP?

 8        A.   No, that's not an official document.  These are my own notes that

 9     I took as a kind of reminder for myself.  I just noted things down as

10     bullet points.  As you can see, this is not an official document and it

11     doesn't comply with any official format.  These are just my personal

12     notes.

13        Q.   So there were notes made of meetings that you attended and, as it

14     were, reminders of things that you had to do; is that correct?

15        A.   Roughly speaking, that's correct, because I noted down what I

16     thought was important.

17        Q.   I understand that.  But that's not quite an answer to my

18     question.  You noted down meetings you attended, the things that you

19     thought were important.  That's what you just said; is that right?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   And also, as it were, things to do, what might commonly be called

22     a to-do list?

23        A.   Yes, this served as a kind of reminder to me.

24        Q.   Now, the first diary that you provided to us starts in -- just

25     let me get this right.  Sorry, Your Honour.  Starts, I think, in May of

Page 20780

 1     1991; is that correct?  Can you just confirm, you've got the original

 2     there.

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   And finishes in October 1991?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   And did you start that -- carrying and using that notebook from

 7     the moment that you became the chief of the Doboj CSB in 1991?

 8        A.   I see that the first entry refers to a meeting held on the

 9     27th of May, so I didn't cover the first days of my duty.

10        Q.   So you started your duties sometime in May of 1991; is that

11     right?

12        A.   I think that's correct.  I think it was in the beginning of May.

13     I can't tell you precisely.

14        Q.   Right.  The second notebook, is this correct, begins on the

15     9th of January, 1992?  Sorry, second notebook - I beg your pardon, my

16     fault - begins on the 4th of November, 1991?  Sorry.

17        A.   The 30th of November, 1991.

18        Q.   Are you sure about that?  Don't you have entries for the 4th of

19     November --

20             MR. ZECEVIC:  I am sorry, I don't know how it was translated, but

21     I believe the witness said the other month, 30th of other month, not

22     November.

23             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's correction:  The 30th of October,

24     1991.

25             MS. KORNER:

Page 20781

 1        Q.   Right.  30th of October, 1991, perhaps you better tell us, and

 2     runs until when?

 3        A.   Well, let's have a look.  If I see it correctly, the last entry

 4     is on the 8th of April, 1992.

 5        Q.   And it stops there?

 6        A.   Yes, this journal ends here.

 7        Q.   And then the third one, please, could you tell us the entries

 8     there that they run from when to when?

 9             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the counsel please switch off the mike

10     when the witness is speaking.  Thank you.

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There is something written before

12     that, but the first date that appears is the 10th of July, 1992, when I

13     was preparing for a meeting in Belgrade and there's also some notes that

14     refer to that.

15             MS. KORNER:

16        Q.   And when does that end, that notebook?

17        A.   Well, practically until the end of December of that year, but

18     actually, there is also one entry dated the 5th of January, 1993.  The

19     5th of January is the last entry.

20        Q.   Could you tell us, please, Mr. Bjelosevic, where are your notes

21     for the three-month period, roughly, between the 8th of April, 1992, and

22     the 10th of July, 1992?

23        A.   I did not keep notes in that period.  I relied mostly on

24     information bulletins and other information gathered by the service

25     relating to hostile activities of paramilitary formations, and so on and

Page 20782

 1     so forth.  So in that period, as I said earlier, the centre did not have

 2     its proper departments and was unable to function properly during that

 3     period.

 4        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, the 8th of April is roughly -- it's roughly a

 5     week after the formation of the Serbian MUP and you are, during the

 6     course of April, as we've seen, sending correspondence both to the old

 7     BiH MUP and dealing with the new RS MUP.  Let's just deal with April.

 8     What made you suddenly depart from your usual practice which you had

 9     followed slavishly up until then of making notes?

10        A.   I did not act in any slavish way because that's not my nature.

11     Whatever I noted down was correct and true.  I wish you could understand

12     what the situation in the Doboj region was at the time, and perhaps if

13     you would care to look at the video-clips that I provided and the

14     information bulletins, you might get some insight into that because that

15     was an extraordinary situation.  There were extraordinary events taking

16     place that were completely contrary to a normal situation, and during

17     that period I was literally stretched between Doboj, Derventa, and the

18     commands of -- in Doboj and Derventa barracks because as I said the

19     situation became extremely complicated.  And now I'm telling you that I

20     relied mostly in my work on the summary reports about the security

21     situation on the ground and the information bulletins, and if you saw

22     them yourselves, you could have seen that once an operative finished

23     typing a daily bulletin, then he would add something by hand that

24     happened in the meantime.

25             When I received a bulletin, it would turn out that even new

Page 20783

 1     developments happened in the meantime, so I would add new information by

 2     hand.  So the things were going on at such a pace and speed that I really

 3     spent the least of my time in the office trying to make and take down

 4     notes.

 5        Q.   Yes, but surely, Mr. Bjelosevic, in a period like this whereas

 6     you say so much was happening, it was more important that you should keep

 7     notes of what you should be doing, where you should be going, and

 8     meetings that you were having?

 9        A.   I would really ask everybody who are making judgements about

10     certain periods and certain events to at least try to perceive the things

11     within the given time and under the given circumstances.  Believe me,

12     after 19 years, even I who had gone through this, in hindsight this might

13     seem a little bit different.  But at the time that was an a incredible

14     dynamics of developments, the events were stressful, so to put it simply,

15     we could not work and operate in a normal atmosphere.

16             I really don't know -- I don't know what the point is of your

17     question, but if you think that I took some notes and I'm not willing to

18     show them, then I think you are wrong.

19        Q.   Yes.  You have, in fact, reached the obvious conclusion that I'm

20     going to put you to.  But just before I do, do you agree, Mr. Bjelosevic,

21     that it was in May and June in particular that the serious crimes took

22     place in Doboj?

23        A.   I absolutely agree with you, but let me just remind you that the

24     centre was incapable of functioning properly, and I, myself, as the chief

25     of the centre, was excluded by the Crisis Staff from all these affairs.

Page 20784

 1     You will remember the decision of the Crisis Staff which stipulates that

 2     all people involved in security business should be placed under the

 3     jurisdiction of the Doboj CSB, and the only authorised person to organise

 4     and run these things in Doboj area was that person.  On the other hand, I

 5     told you before and I said so to the Honourable Chamber, that I was

 6     engaged in military issues and that I wasn't sitting in my office at the

 7     centre.  I only went there occasionally especially to collect these

 8     reports and information, but I wasn't spending all my time in my office

 9     nor did I keep any documents on my own because I didn't have anyone to

10     manage.

11             MR. ZECEVIC:  I am sorry, I have another intervention in the

12     transcript.  It says -- it's page 21, line 7.  I believe the -- it is

13     recorded:

14             "... jurisdiction of the Doboj CSB, and the only authorised

15     person to organise and run these things in Doboj area was that person."

16             I believe the witness said something different and it is

17     important.

18             MS. KORNER:  Yes, it doesn't make sense, yes.

19        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, can you repeat, please, what you told the Court

20     slowly so that we get correct interpretation, what you were saying about

21     Crisis Staffs order about persons involved in security?

22        A.   You asked me if a lot of criminal offences were being committed

23     at the time --

24        Q.   Don't repeat the whole answer, please.  It's taking long enough

25     as it is.  Just repeat what you said about the Crisis Staff decision in

Page 20785

 1     respect of security person.

 2        A.   I said that pursuant to a decision taken by the Crisis Staff it

 3     was stipulated that all personnel, or more precisely as it's stated

 4     there, individuals and groups involved in security business should be

 5     placed under the jurisdiction of the Doboj public security station chief

 6     who was the only authorised person for organising and managing security

 7     operations and issues in the area of Doboj.  Therefore, it means that I

 8     was excluded from these affairs.

 9        Q.   During this period, the period you say you could do nothing, in

10     fact, you have an alibi for anything that when on for Doboj and during

11     that period, did you rely on the daily bulletins that you have spoken

12     about for the information that you got?

13        A.   From the 30th of April, there were no daily bulletins that were

14     kept.  I would like to note that the operations duty service of the CSB

15     Doboj which was otherwise part of the milicija department was not

16     functioning at that period of time at all until the CSB was established

17     once again, and that was sometime in July, the end of July.  And I think

18     that the operations duty service started operating only from the end of

19     August or the beginning of September within the centre.

20        Q.   Well, then, I'll go back to my original question, Mr. Bjelosevic:

21     Wasn't it even more important than it had been before that you kept notes

22     of what you were doing, who you were seeing?

23        A.   It wasn't important for me.  When the operation corridor was

24     underway, and I already told you that I was in a command position, that's

25     the kind of documentation that was kept then, and once the task was

Page 20786

 1     completed and this is handed over to the command in charge.

 2        Q.   But, okay, let's deal with the period that you were in the

 3     military, as you -- or working in the military.  You don't have any notes

 4     at all about any meetings you held with General Talic or anybody else, do

 5     you?

 6        A.   No, no, I have nothing.  Perhaps it would be a good thing for me

 7     to recall on this occasion that during exercises before the war we were

 8     issued with official notebooks when we attended these exercises, and you

 9     will see in my military booklet that I have those exercises recorded.

10     Once the exercise was over, then we had to return these military

11     notebooks before we went back home.  Those were the rules in the

12     military.

13        Q.   Well, I am sorry, you are saying, are you, that you had a

14     separate notebook during this period when you were, as you assert,

15     working with General Talic, which you don't have at all?

16        A.   First of all, I did not use the word "rokovnik," let that be

17     quite clear.  I said that during this command duty there was a certain

18     documentation that was kept, and it was in the form of a work map and

19     there were code documents for keeping communications running.  That was

20     after my mission was accomplished.  After I finished that duty, then this

21     was handed over to the command.

22        Q.   I don't know, I am afraid, what the word means that you mentioned

23     in the Serbian language.  But do I understand this, you didn't have a

24     notebook in the way that you have got these notebooks here whilst you

25     were with the military?

Page 20787

 1        A.   No, no.

 2        Q.   Do you have any documentation that shows that you were working

 3     with the military during the period from the beginning of May until the

 4     end of June?

 5        A.   I would just like to make a distinction as follows:  Between the

 6     army, on the one hand, and defence on the other, to make things clearer.

 7     In the beginning of May, we started preparing for what would happen

 8     later, that is to say Operation Corridor.  All information that was

 9     relevant to security as far as the strength of the enemy was concerned,

10     was handled by the security service of the military.  And separate from

11     that, I used documents from the state security service and then we

12     compared the two, we cross-referenced this information, we made our

13     assessments in order to be able to make the best decision possible for

14     the problem of the corridor.

15             So that was for the army, if I can put it that a way.  And then

16     the later period was within the army itself, when I was given a certain

17     direction and certain forces and all the way up until the completion of

18     that task.  You will look at the dates, and you will see on the basis of

19     those dates --

20        Q.   I am sorry to stop you, but I've just had a notice come up on my

21     LiveNote saying "server connection disabled."  I don't know whether

22     that's on anybody else's.

23             MR. ZECEVIC:  It's the break now anyhow.

24             JUDGE HALL:  Yes, perhaps it's convenient at this point to take

25     the break and see if this technical problem can be corrected.

Page 20788

 1             MS. KORNER:  Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Bjelosevic.

 2                           [The witness stands down]

 3                           --- Recess taken at 12.08 p.m.

 4                           --- On resuming at 12.38 p.m.

 5             JUDGE HALL:  Ms. Korner, while the witness is on his way in,

 6     could you reserve two minutes for me at the end of today, please.  Thank

 7     you.

 8             MS. KORNER:  Yes, Your Honour.

 9                           [The witness takes the stand]

10             MS. KORNER:

11        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, I interrupted you in your answer because of the

12     problems with LiveNote.  The question I asked you was a very simple,

13     straightforward one, namely:  Do you have any documentation that shows

14     that you were working with the military during the period from the

15     beginning of May until the end of June, and you were giving a very long

16     answer which I stopped.  You had begun to say, and this is at line 17 of

17     page 24:

18             "The later period was within the army itself when I was given a

19     certain direction and certain forces and all the way up until the

20     completion of that task.  You will look at the dates and you will see on

21     the basis of those dates," and I interrupted you there.

22             I will let you finish this answer, but can I just say this:  I am

23     asking fairly simple, straightforward questions.  It would help

24     enormously if you would answer those questions directly, because the

25     longer your answers, the longer you are going to be sitting here.

Page 20789

 1        A.   I shall endeavour to be concise.  When I spoke about the dates, I

 2     said that you can find it out also in this information, and I also wanted

 3     to say that I spent a period of time working on the exchange of

 4     information and planning of the Operation Corridor.  Another period of

 5     time I spent on a command duty taking part in the operations, and after

 6     that, after that assignment had been completed, I again spent most of my

 7     time at the command post in Duga Neva [phoen].  That's where we exchanged

 8     and evaluated information about what is about to face our forces.

 9        Q.   I will repeat the question, and it can, I suggest to you, be

10     answered yes or no.  Do you have any documentation that shows that you

11     were working with the military during the period from the beginning of

12     May until the end of June?

13        A.   I don't have these documents with me.

14        Q.   Now, I my return to the question of your notes, but can I just

15     ask you this, Mr. Bjelosevic, you told the Court before you left that you

16     had gone to Zenica because you heard that you are being investigated and

17     that you -- it was at that stage that you started to take copies of

18     documents from the Doboj archives.  Did you at the same time get rid of

19     any notes you had for the period April until the end of June 1992?

20        A.   No way.  What should I get rid of?

21        Q.   Any notes that might show your involvement, knowledge of, or

22     discussions about the crimes that were being committed in the Doboj area

23     in May and June of 1992?

24        A.   No.  Anything that I knew in May and June resulted in reaction

25     from me and you could see that through several orders.

Page 20790

 1        Q.   And I just want you to confirm what you told the Court.  Your

 2     account is that during May and June you were away with the military

 3     returning only occasionally to Doboj; is that right?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   And that the CSB Doboj was not operating?

 6        A.   That's true.

 7        Q.   I want to move to the other documents, please, however.  You

 8     kindly provided a breakdown of where you acquired the documents that were

 9     part of the Defence exhibits and that you had handed over to the Defence.

10     And I think if we may, we better have, first of all -- yes, well I think

11     the best thing is if we put up the translation and the original of the

12     document.  I think it's in Sanction; is that right?

13             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, it's not an exhibit.  I mean, it's not

14     something I'm asking be made an exhibit, but I think it may help if you

15     see.

16        Q.   Now, is this right, Mr. Bjelosevic, what we can see ourselves and

17     we've got a translation is that that was the original list that was

18     provided by the Stanisic Defence to us of documents they had acquired

19     from you, and you wrote by the side of it where you had acquired these

20     documents; is that right?

21        A.   You mean the things that I brought here?  Because I can't see

22     anything on my monitor.

23        Q.   No.

24             MS. KORNER:  Could somebody ...

25        Q.   That's right, is it, that's your writing we can see on the list

Page 20791

 1     of documents?

 2        A.   Yes, that's what I wrote when I left this place.  However, either

 3     there was some repetition of numbers or I misread something because some

 4     front pages have more than one number.  That's the reason that I didn't

 5     finish the marking of all the documents because I found that some numbers

 6     on the document started repeating.

 7        Q.   Right.  I accept that it wasn't always easy to see because there

 8     were a number of different numbers on the documents that are in the

 9     binder for the Defence which is which, but you say copied from the

10     archive, I think, yes, if we look at item number 1.  Are we talking about

11     the Doboj archive?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   And those documents that you had copied for you when you -- at

14     the time that you went up to - I want to say Derventa but it's not -

15     Zenica in about 2004 or 2003?  Sorry.

16        A.   Excuse me, I didn't understand the question.

17        Q.   When you say copied from the archive, were those copies made at

18     the time that you went up to Zenica to see why you were being

19     investigated?

20        A.   Yes.  I copied a number of documents at that time.  I requested

21     them to be copied.  Another number of documents I had already had with me

22     because I had them in possession.

23        Q.   And you know, don't you, that none of these documents any longer

24     exist in the archives at Doboj.  They appear to have been destroyed?

25        A.   I wouldn't know that.

Page 20792

 1        Q.   And destroyed at some stage after you had taken these copies.

 2     You know nothing about that?

 3        A.   No.  No, I really know nothing about that.  I never deal with

 4     archives and now I hear this for the first time from you.  However, let

 5     me just say one thing.  As far as I know, I don't know exactly when, but

 6     your people, your investigators also visited those archives much, much

 7     earlier, and I think that I heard that they took some of the documents

 8     for your needs.  I'm not quite sure whether they made copies or whether

 9     they actually removed documents.

10        Q.   I don't want to give evidence, you are absolutely right, as you

11     know because I presume you were there, the Doboj archives have been

12     visited on a number of occasions.

13             Now, next there are documents which you obviously provided but

14     you don't specify where they came from, it's blank.  Just see if we look,

15     for example, at item number 13 on this page you've written "copy?"

16        A.   I don't know what it is unless I see the document.  I think that

17     I probably couldn't remember.  I will have to look at the document

18     itself.

19        Q.   All right.  Where we see a complete blank, for example number 15?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   There's nothing there.  I mean, does that mean when you looked at

22     the document you were unable to remember where you had acquired it from?

23        A.   Probably.  Or maybe I found another repetition of the number.

24     It's one or the other.

25        Q.   Now, some of the documents, for example, number 25 on the list

Page 20793

 1     you say kept copy from 1992 and that entry appears on a number of

 2     documents.  What was it about these particular documents that made you

 3     keep them in 1992?

 4        A.   I don't know exactly what document that is.  I would have to take

 5     another look at it.

 6        Q.   All right.  Quite difficult to sort out myself where they appear

 7     in the Defence bundle.  Can you give us a general policy, why did you

 8     keep some documents in 1992, or copies of some documents in 1992 itself?

 9        A.   That's what I began to explain.  So I don't know exactly about

10     this document but there were some documents, for instance, dispatches or

11     some informations which were then followed by certain activities,

12     meetings, analysis, et cetera.  And then a copy of such a document I

13     would keep for my own needs while those activities were being carried

14     out, activities related to certain event.

15        Q.   But that's massive generalisation, Mr. Bjelosevic.  Can we have a

16     specific example of what you are talking about?  Well, let's have a look.

17     I'm told that the document you wanted to look at is tab 131 in the

18     Defence bundle.  65 ter 231D1.

19        A.   What is the tab number?

20        Q.   131, I gather.

21             MS. KORNER:  Can we switch from Sanction.

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It's a bad copy, but as far as I

23     can see it is about the regulating of the situation related to the

24     reserve police forces.

25             MS. KORNER:

Page 20794

 1        Q.   Yes.  So exactly, I want to know why that was a document that you

 2     kept a copy of in 1992?

 3        A.   I will tell you straightaway.  Maybe you recall that we looked at

 4     one document here.  It was a document related to the inspection of the

 5     public security station in Doboj where it had been found that five

 6     reserve policemen, if I'm not mistaken, did not satisfy the conditions

 7     stipulated by law, such as having served the national service, and that

 8     they hadn't been convicted and similar things.  On several occasions

 9     various stations were reminded to run those checks and some of them

10     simply didn't want to do that.  And I have to tell you that at the time I

11     couldn't assume that this topic would be discussed before this

12     Trial Chamber at some point in future, but trust me, from the very

13     beginning, and it was maybe a bit unusual that a subordinate would reply

14     to orders coming from the minister and trying to draw his attention to

15     some irregularities, but still I was of the opinion at the time that a

16     day would come when all things would have to be explained, especially

17     things related to the fact that the law was not observed.

18             And I simply wanted to have the situation in which such

19     activities could be properly discussed at some future point.

20        Q.   Can I say, Mr. Bjelosevic, I accept that entirely.  You were,

21     weren't you, during the course of this period, concerned that in the

22     future there might well be trials over what had happened in Doboj in

23     1992?  That's what you said, hadn't you?

24        A.   I was talking about unlawful conduct at various levels.  I

25     mentioned and order from the minister, maybe you remember, we mentioned

Page 20795

 1     it in my previous testimony, and I wasn't talking only about Doboj.  You

 2     can take a look at Brod as well.  If you want to see what Anto Prkacin

 3     explained on the independent television in Banja Luka, you will be able

 4     to see that literally confirmed what I said here.  Things related to the

 5     arrival of his forces from Slavonski Brod, the take-over of the public

 6     security station in Bosanski Brod, the disarming of 50-odd policemen, and

 7     so and on so forth.  I'm talking here about a wider context, not about a

 8     particular instance.  There were many irregularities in conduct at

 9     various places in various levels.

10        Q.   Absolutely.  Can I make it clear to you, Mr. Bjelosevic, as I

11     think you understood, you want to tell this Court about the crimes that

12     were committed about Serbs, and that's the CDs you brought with you,

13     isn't it?

14        A.   Not only that.  That as well of course, of course, but it wasn't

15     only that.  We are talking about everything that happened, all the crimes

16     that were committed, about all of this unlawful behaviour, about this

17     overall chaotic situation, lack of order.

18             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter did not hear the last part of

19     the sentence.

20             MS. KORNER:

21        Q.   Could you repeat the last part of your sentence.  If you can pull

22     the microphones down a bit so that they get it and I'll turn mine off.

23        A.   I was not talking only about a narrow area or a particular event.

24     I am talking about everything unlawful that was happening, about crimes

25     that were being committed.  I am talking about a totally chaotic

Page 20796

 1     situation that prevailed at the time.  I've been saying time and again

 2     that all of you who are dealing with these matters should try to

 3     understand the entirety of the situation and the problems that prevailed

 4     at the time.  Believe me, that is what I wish.  It never crossed my mind,

 5     not even at a subconscious level that one should remain silent about any

 6     crime or that one crime would justify another.  However, you have to

 7     understand what kind of times we were living in.  Wasn't it criminal to

 8     attack a public security station and to disarm the personnel there.  And

 9     then to have, as you will see in these statements of people who were

10     there, obviously there was this person who was in a position of authority

11     who allowed them to do so.

12             I am sorry, but may I just note one more thing.  When I spoke

13     about that during my previous testimony, I apologise for having noticed

14     that, but I did see that you smiled and this made you smile, but believe

15     me, I was chief of a public security station there at the time and that

16     kind of thing happened.  There would be formations coming from elsewhere,

17     from an independently recognised state by then and they simply took over

18     your public security station.

19        Q.   Mr. Bjelosevic, can I say straightaway so that you don't have to

20     go on repeating this, I accept that crimes were committed against Serbs,

21     but we are dealing in this trial with your actions.  So you issued -- you

22     kept this order, didn't you, because you knew full well that the MUP in

23     Doboj and elsewhere from the meetings you attended was filled with people

24     who were committing criminal offences and who in the past had a criminal

25     record?  You knew that at the time, didn't you?

Page 20797

 1             MR. ZECEVIC:  I would kindly ask that Ms. Korner repeats her

 2     question because she made two suggestions to the witness.  One, the

 3     people committing crimes, and the people having a criminal record.  So

 4     the witness should be asked the direct question and then he can answer.

 5             MS. KORNER:  I accept that, I'll split that.

 6        Q.   You knew, Mr. Bjelosevic, don't you, that in the ranks of the MUP

 7     in the Doboj, the wide of Doboj municipality, there were members of the

 8     police who were committing criminal acts?

 9        A.   I had knowledge to that effect.  However, you did see what my

10     reactions to that were, that there were oral orders and orders in

11     writing.  When we established contact, then the minister also asked for

12     this to be clarified, eliminated, et cetera.  Let me

13     try to explain something else to make it clear here.  I hope that you do

14     not think that the chiefs of centres selected reserve

15     policemen and that they could individually know about every one of these

16     persons.  That was the problem.  The local forces, namely the

17     Crisis Staffs and political persons imposed themselves, as you saw in

18     Samac and elsewhere, and they started running the service at one

19     point in time and that was the problem.

20        Q.   I know that you want to blame everyone but yourself,

21     Mr. Bjelosevic, but can we stick to the points that I'm asking you about.

22     Did you also know that some of these police officers working in the wider

23     Doboj area who had committed -- who were committing criminal offences had

24     in the past committed criminal offences?

25        A.   With your permission, this is would really have to be broken

Page 20798

 1     down.  Policemen who were policemen before the war could not be policemen

 2     if they had committed crimes.

 3             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  Could all other

 4     microphones please be switched off.

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Everything went haywire with the

 6     reserve police, starting with that order from the Ministry of the

 7     Interior of Bosnia-Herzegovina, to the effect that units of the

 8     Territorial Defence and volunteers should be included in the stations.

 9     That's when the non-selective manning of reserve police stations started

10     running against the rules that were in force in terms of getting

11     appropriate clearance for the persons who would be involved there.  So

12     the code no longer existed.

13             MS. KORNER:

14        Q.   I take it by that you are referring to Pusina's order back in

15     April; is that right?

16        A.   Yes, I think there were two such orders that pertained to that.

17        Q.   Yes, I'll -- I'm coming to that later, but can I just ask for the

18     third time the simple question to which I would like a simple answer.

19     However they had come to be in the police, there were people who were

20     authorised officials in the RS MUP in 1992 who had criminal records, were

21     there not?

22        A.   There were such persons as well in the reserve police.

23        Q.   Whether they were in the reserve police or not, they had become,

24     had they not, authorised officials?

25        A.   I have already pointed out that we have to make a distinction

Page 20799

 1     between the active-duty personnel and the reserve personnel.

 2        Q.   I'll leave this because we could spend even longer.

 3             This order of which you kept a copy in 1992 was intended to be

 4     part of your defence if you were ever asked about what you had done to

 5     show that you issued an order that those who do not meet the specified

 6     criteria should be effectively sent to the military; is that right?

 7        A.   That's not the way I looked at it.  I did not perceive from the

 8     assumption that somebody would be putting questions to me as to what I

 9     had done.  Rather, I thought that the questions would be put to those

10     persons why they did not act in accordance with orders and rules and

11     regulations.

12        Q.   I suggest to you, Mr. Bjelosevic, that these sorts of orders of

13     which we see numerous examples from you, from Mr. Stanisic and from

14     others are no more than window dressing, that you never expected nor

15     intended that these orders should be carried out?

16        A.   I would not agree with you.  I do not agree with one per cent of

17     what you are stating so categorically.  You can call the chiefs of

18     stations from the relevant period and the komandirs as well, and you can

19     ask them what I said to them during meetings in addition to what I wrote

20     here.  And by now, sorry, but I am talking this as an insult that I was

21     thinking one thing, writing up another thing and doing yet a third thing.

22     I could not agree with that.

23        Q.   All right.  Can we look, please -- can we go back to the list

24     that you prepared which is in Sanction.  Number 84.  We maybe better see

25     what the document is.  You've written, "Kept one copy for myself in 1992

Page 20800

 1     unlawfully."  What do you mean by that?

 2        A.   I don't know.  I have to see what this is all about first.  I

 3     assume that it has do with an order that is unlawful or a report that was

 4     saying that something unlawful had been done.  I don't know.  I don't

 5     know which document that is.

 6             MS. KORNER:  It's tab 36 in your binder.  The exhibit number is

 7     1D00257.

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Oh, yes.  That is one of the orders

 9     that is truly unlawful.  If you allow me, I would like to give my comment

10     as to why it is unlawful.

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  Could all other

12     microphones please be switched off.

13             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In this dispatch, it is actually

14     one of those signed by Mr. Jasarevic and another one, as you had rightly

15     said, was signed by Pusina.  Please, how can someone expect you to have a

16     proper structure of the police or milicija, whatever, at the relevant

17     time it was called milicija, when it says here volunteers or persons who

18     are military conscripts that are placed in other ways under the command

19     of, et cetera, et cetera.  So what I keep saying, see, the period here is

20     the 8th of April, 1992.  That's when it was sent.  Mr. Pusina also sent

21     his order at that time.  It wasn't that a service was being established,

22     an army was being established to attain military objectives, something

23     similar was happening in Croatia, too.  That's the problem.  And believe

24     me, that stay of Mr. Hebib's in Brod and that surrender, that was the

25     creation of an army and then since there were such personnel there, you

Page 20801

 1     can imagine what kind of people you can run across.

 2             And just one more example in this regard.  Soon after that, I got

 3     a report from the Derventa public security station where precisely these

 4     forces that have showed up there as a territorials, as volunteers,

 5     entered the public security station, disarmed the people there, the

 6     policemen there and threw them out, these policemen, these legal

 7     policemen were simply thrown out of the building, they took the building,

 8     they looted it, that was it.  There was a wave of things like that that

 9     were happening.  So wasn't it logical for me to keep a dispatch of this

10     kind that was totally unlawful.  Again I'm telling you I had no idea that

11     The Hague Tribunal would be established and that we would be discussing

12     this here.  However, I was hoping that a proper state would be

13     established where we would clarify such matters.  I didn't want to be

14     part of this story.  You saw that on the basis of my dispatches that I

15     sent to the then minister of the interior.

16        Q.    So the "unlawfully" doesn't mean that you unlawfully had a copy

17     of it.  The "unlawfully," and can I check that is the proper translation

18     of the word you used, refers to your -- the contents of the document?

19        A.   That's right.  What I meant was "nazakonito [phoen] naredjenje,"

20     unlawful order.  That's why I kept it.

21             MS. KORNER:  Can you just -- sorry, can we go back to the actual

22     document on Sanction for a moment?

23        Q.   Can you just please read out what you actually wrote, word for

24     word, next to document number 84?

25        A.   "Kept one copy for myself 1992," and then I placed a note there,

Page 20802

 1     "unlawful" meaning unlawful order.  Perhaps I should have added the word

 2     order or content.  However, there was not enough space for that to be

 3     written there.

 4        Q.   Some of the entries, very quickly, I'm spending rather too much

 5     time on this, say copies from records.  For example number 44, what is

 6     that from?  What records?  Not from the archive.

 7        A.   It might be that this is a document that was in the records of

 8     either in the protocol department or somewhere else, but anyway, I would

 9     need to see the document itself in order to be able to give you a more

10     precise answer.  If you can give me a minute, maybe I can trace it.

11        Q.   As I say I'm spending rather too long on this.  Finally, on this

12     question of documents, you provided us -- all of us with an extra, I

13     think, rough estimate was 180-odd separate documents.  I'm just trying to

14     find my note for them.  But anyhow, where did those new documents come

15     from?  Were they all at home?

16        A.   Yes those documents were with me and if you wish we can clarify

17     them one by one.  So the information bulletin was made out in the

18     necessary number of copies and one can often see that one copy was

19     addressed to the chief, Andrija.  So literally one copy, apart from the

20     register and apart from all other chiefs of department, was dedicated for

21     the chief of the centre, and, therefore, I kept it.

22             Secondly, if you follow security information and intelligence

23     concerning paramilitary units and their activities, also one copy was

24     prepared for the chief and very often it was written by hand to be sent

25     to the chief of CSB or to Chief Andrija or they didn't even write

Page 20803

 1     anything, but I was entitled to have a copy each and that is how I kept

 2     them.

 3        Q.   Yes, I am sorry, but again there are two questions.  Why did you

 4     keep all these documents or selected out of the huge amount of

 5     correspondence that went through the CSB?

 6        A.   I already explained about some of those documents, i.e., the

 7     documents that were unlawful or had unlawful contents.  Some of them I

 8     kept to be used, as I said earlier, for cross-referencing information

 9     with military security service.  That's why I had them with me.  And let

10     me tell you this, I never gave up on the intention that one day I write

11     something about everything that was happening at that time.

12        Q.   All right.  And the last question on these is:  Are you actually

13     allowed to keep copies of all these documents at your home as a serving

14     member of the MUP between 1991 and now?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   There's nothing that stops every single member of the MUP taking

17     home and keeping in his home, without any kind of security precautions,

18     internal MUP documents, is that what you are telling the Court?

19        A.   Not the way you put it, but one could keep a copy; and when I say

20     one, I meant myself.  I didn't take any documents from the official

21     records, but I just kept certain copies for myself.

22        Q.   I want to now move from documents in the short time we have left

23     today to deal with the beginnings of your employment with the MUP.  You

24     told the Court that you were seven years with the secretariat for

25     national defence in Derventa; that's right, isn't it?

Page 20804

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   And you were then asked by Mr. Zecevic, forgive me, I'm just

 3     going to get hold of the transcripts.  And this is at page 19417.  It was

 4     put to you that you started working at the Ministry of the Interior of

 5     the socialist republic when, and you said I believe it was in early May

 6     or perhaps the end of April, and looking at your notebook May would be --

 7     seems to be right.  You were asked:

 8             "Did you apply for the job?  Was there a vacancy announced and

 9     how did you get the job?"

10             And you actually didn't answer the first part of the question

11     because you went straight into the procedures about the selection of the

12     three candidates, and so on and so forth.

13             Now, you were asked the same question when you were interviewed,

14     I think, in 2004.  The trouble with grey binders is that they all look

15     the same.  And this is at page 16 of the first interview which is

16     T-002550.  You were asked by Mr. Sabir:

17             "Were you contacted first by this political party, that's SDS,

18     before they nominated you as a candidate?"

19             And you said:

20             "Yes.  And the way it was done, there were some who were

21     favourites and there were some who were outsiders."

22             Then you explained it was Mr. Ninkovic, rather than you.

23             And you were asked:

24             "Do you remember when you were contacted by the SDS in order to

25     discuss your candidacy for the position as head of CSB Doboj?"

Page 20805

 1             And you said:

 2             "I think I was contacted in March or April, and that also was one

 3     of the reasons that made me join at least these people, these candidates.

 4     At that time deputy minister of the interior, Dr. Zepinic, was a man I

 5     knew from before."

 6             It's to do with sports:

 7             "Q.  You discussed your candidacy to the CSB Doboj with

 8     Mr. Zepinic?

 9             "A.  Yes."

10             Is that all correct, Mr. Bjelosevic?

11        A.   Yes, it is.

12        Q.   And you then went on to say this, although the officer after the

13     tapes were changed said:

14             "Q.  You were describing," and this is at page 17, "that you were

15     contacted in March 1991 by the SDS.  Do you remember by whom you were

16     contacted from the SDS?

17             "A.  By the late Milovan Bjelosevic, who was my cousin.  He was

18     deputy at the National Assembly at that time."

19             So Mr. Bjelosevic, just so we can get this right, who contacted

20     you first, Mr. Bjelosevic and then you discussed it with Mr. Zepinic, or

21     was it the other way around?

22        A.   I cannot recall exactly what the order was, but, yes, I talked to

23     both of them.

24        Q.   Whether or not you were actually a member, a paid up member of

25     the SDS, were you sympathetic to the aims of the SDS?

Page 20806

 1        A.   Partly, yes, and I can tell you exactly what it was.  In the

 2     manifesto, the Serbian Democratic Party made it clear that they would

 3     advocate the preservation of Yugoslavia.  I believe that to be a crucial

 4     part of their programme, and I believe that everyone who was in favour of

 5     preserving Yugoslavia was close to my heart.  And ultimately I was

 6     trained to serve my country and my country was Yugoslavia.  And I did

 7     everything I could to preserve this country.  Yes, I was sympathetic with

 8     this particular part of their orientation and programme.

 9        Q.   Now, you said that you were not the candidate that they wanted.

10     They wanted Mr. Ninkovic who was head of the SDS in Doboj.  And you

11     pointed to the letter that was written by the SDS, which I suppose we

12     better have up again.  It's ...

13             MR. ZECEVIC:  1D435.

14             MS. KORNER:  Thank you very much.

15             MR. ZECEVIC:  Tab 1A.

16             MS. KORNER:  Yes, I made a note.

17        Q.   Now, this is dated the 29th of May, 1991, so it's after you've

18     been appointed, and it's addressed to the Municipal Assembly,

19     Executive Boards, Sarajevo MUP, and the chiefs of the public security

20     station and the SDS Main Board.  And if we go over the page, we see the

21     decision.

22        A.   Yes, it says attach --

23             MS. KORNER:  Yes, I'm sorry.  We haven't gone over the page on

24     the screen, please.  Could we go to the next page, please, on the screen

25     in each, B/C/S and English.

Page 20807

 1        Q.   There are signatures appearing.  First of all, from Derventa,

 2     your cousin; is that right?

 3        A.   Yes, only his signature was forged, the late Milovan did not sign

 4     this.  I can bring you a paper where you can see his signature, how it

 5     actually looks like.  But they believe that it would be important to have

 6     as many signatures as possible.  He was not at this meeting and the late

 7     Milovan specifically told me that.

 8        Q.   Well, did he do anything about it?  If his signature was forged,

 9     did he write a letter saying my signature has been forged?

10        A.   I don't know if he wrote any letter.  He only told me that he

11     wasn't at that meeting, and I know his signature so this is not his

12     signature.

13        Q.   Well, I mean, you've answered one of the questions I was going to

14     ask you, which is:  Why should the man who suggested you take the job

15     sign saying you were the wrong person?  The only other question I want to

16     ask you about this is Tesic, the man who signs is Dusan Kuzmanovic.  Is

17     that the same Dusan Kuzmanovic who was head of the SJB in Teslic in 1992?

18        A.   Yes, it is.

19        Q.   So, to your knowledge, at least one of the chiefs of the SJBs was

20     a member of the SDS?

21        A.   Yes, Kuzmanovic was a member of the SDS.  I even believe that for

22     a time he was the president of the Municipal Board or a member of the

23     Municipal Board.  But apart from that, I know that he was a member,

24     without doubt.

25        Q.   And it's a fact, isn't it, Mr. Bjelosevic, that although

Page 20808

 1     technically no member of the MUP should have been a member of a political

 2     party once the communists were, as it were, disbanded, not disbanded,

 3     that's not the right word, a number of police officers did join the SDS

 4     and no doubt the SDA and the SDZ?

 5        A.   Well, probably.  However, I don't recall that there was any ban

 6     in that sense at the time, i.e., that anyone was banned from being a

 7     member of any political party in 1991.

 8        Q.   Well, I mean, Mr. Bjelosevic, I'm perfectly prepared to accept

 9     that my understanding was that police officers were not supposed to be

10     joining political parties in 1990 and 1991, but if you say there was no

11     ban, I'm perfectly prepared to accept that.  Now, I want to deal --

12             MS. KORNER:  Maybe I don't, because, Your Honours, I'm going to

13     move to something that requires documents.

14             JUDGE HALL:  Mr. Bjelosevic, we are about to take the adjournment

15     for today but we aren't going to rise immediately, so the usher would

16     escort you from the courtroom and we would resume your cross-examination

17     tomorrow morning.

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I just ask what shall I do with

19     these documents?

20             MS. KORNER:  Yes, Your Honours, in fact, I was going to ask

21     whether Mr. Bjelosevic would be prepared to leave his notebooks with us.

22     What I think we are going to try to do, subject to any difficulties that

23     we are told about, is scan them in colour.  At the moment, we've got

24     rather poor copies sometimes in black and white, so Mr. Bjelosevic is

25     prepared to hand them over to us and we'll just scan them, if we can.

Page 20809

 1             JUDGE HALL:  Mr. Bjelosevic, is that a problem?

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't mind.  Only I want them

 3     back after you are finished.

 4             MS. KORNER:  Yes, they will certainly be returned to him.

 5                           [The witness stands down]

 6             MR. ZECEVIC:  Your Honours, if I may just one minute -- brought

 7     something to your attention.  Your Honours, you will remember that

 8     Mr. Hannis asked for one week to file his complaint on the footnotes of

 9     expert witness Bajagic.  Now, we discussed over the weekend -- over

10     yesterday, actually, and today, a number of the footnotes that -- or the

11     list of the footnotes that we intend to offer, and we deleted a number of

12     these footnotes and we are still, so to speak, talking, the Defence and

13     the Office of the Prosecutor.  However, Your Honours gave the dead-line

14     today, and I would kindly ask, actually, on behalf of Mr. Hannis, but it

15     is joint effort by Defence and the Office of the Prosecutor, that

16     dead-line be extended until tomorrow afternoon.  Thank you very much.

17             JUDGE HALL.  Tomorrow afternoon would be sufficient?

18             MR. ZECEVIC:  Thank you very much, Your Honours.

19             JUDGE HALL:  No, I'm asking.

20             MR. ZECEVIC:  Yes, yes, yes, I'm sure we will be able to deal

21     with that in the afternoon today.

22             JUDGE HALL:  So we so extend it.  Thank you.

23             On the 10th of May, the Trial Chamber accepted Stevo Pasalic as

24     an expert in demography for the Defence.  Stevo Pasalic subsequently

25     testified on the 10th to the 13th of May and the Stanisic Defence has

Page 20810

 1     requested admission into evidence of his expert report.

 2             On the 13th of May, the Prosecution objected, arguing that the

 3     report only addresses Serb population movements and that his testimony

 4     has not explained their relevance to the displacement of non-Serbs.  It

 5     submitted that Stevo Pasalic is "less well acquainted with war influenced

 6     migrations of non-Serbs" and that he does not have sufficient knowledge

 7     of non-Serb populated areas, and that the report is "essentially a

 8     tu quoque report."

 9             In response the Stanisic Defence submitted that Stevo Pasalic's

10     report should be considered complementary to that of the Prosecution

11     expert and that the Chamber by having access to both reports would, and I

12     quote, "have a broader basis to rely on."

13             On the 13th of May, the Prosecution also requested that the

14     Chamber reconsider its ruling that Stevo Pasalic be considered an expert

15     in demography, submitting that its cross-examination had raised such

16     serious doubts about his expertise that reconsideration would be

17     warranted.

18             The Chamber, recalling the 10th of May ruling was issued in the

19     exercise of its discretion, holds that the Prosecution has not

20     demonstrated a clear error of reasoning or that it would be necessary to

21     reconsider the ruling to prevent an injustice.  Accordingly, it reaffirms

22     the 10th of May ruling that Stevo Pasalic is considered to be an expert

23     in demography.

24             Stevo Pasalic's report appears to be confined to analysing the

25     displacement of Serbs, while the present trial is concerned with the

Page 20811

 1     alleged deportation and forcible transfer of non-Serbs.  Moreover, the

 2     methods employed cast doubt on the integrity of some of his conclusions.

 3             The Chamber notes the submissions of the Stanisic Defence that

 4     Stevo Pasalic's evidence and report are to be considered complementary to

 5     the evidence of the Prosecution's demographer.  While the Chamber does

 6     not necessarily accept this submission, it holds that the report would be

 7     of assistance in its analysis of the body of evidence before it.  And it

 8     will be a matter for the Chamber at the appropriate time to be determined

 9     the weight to be given to the report in light of the trial record as a

10     whole.  The report is accordingly admitted into evidence.

11             So we take the adjournment -- yes, so it should be assigned an

12     exhibit number.

13             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honour, this will be Exhibit 1D541.

14             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

15             And we take the adjournment until tomorrow morning.

16                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.45 p.m.,

17                           to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 18th day of May,

18                           2011 at 9.00 a.m.